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View Full Version : Wood, Aramis to return to Cubs...


gf2020
11-12-2006, 02:41 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061112cubssignings,1,1078782.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

I don't think much of Aramis, but at least he stuck when it would have been easy to run to LA for more money and a much better chance at winning. It's got to be tough to be the Angels' GM with all that money and no ability to get a Chicago player to take it, which just proves...

Chicago>Los Angeles

The Cubs should have cut Wood loose if only to try and stem the negative energy surrounding the team. You just can't depend on him.

MUsoxfan
11-12-2006, 02:48 PM
Ramirez's agent, Paul Kinzer, believed Alfonso Soriano and Ramirez would be the top two available free agent hitters, and was going to seek a contract on par with Carlos Beltran's seven-year, $119 million deal with the New York Mets.


Talk about inflated sense of value:rolleyes:


I think the Cubs made a terrific signing of Wood. $1.75m.....a good season makes him only $6m. Can't argue with that deal.

champagne030
11-12-2006, 03:16 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061112cubssignings,1,1078782.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

I don't think much of Aramis, but at least he stuck when it would have been easy to run to LA for more money and a much better chance at winning. It's got to be tough to be the Angels' GM with all that money and no ability to get a Chicago player to take it, which just proves...

Chicago>Los Angeles

The Cubs should have cut Wood loose if only to try and stem the negative energy surrounding the team. You just can't depend on him.

$14.5M/year for Error-A-Miss??? :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

buehrle4cy05
11-12-2006, 03:22 PM
A "hometown discount" was cited by Hendry as a reason the Cubs were able to sign Ramirez.

Uh, $73 mil/5 years for a guy who sucked for the first half of 2006 isn't a hometown discount. That's just $2 million less than Vladimir Guerrero's contract.:o: There was no way he was going to get Beltran money. The Cubs blew this signing, which will be evident when he puts up good, but not great numbers for the next five years.

Jjav829
11-12-2006, 04:08 PM
Here's to 5 more seasons of crappy defense, boneheaded mistakes and dogging it whenever he isn't hitting home runs. :gulp:

I'll take Crede over Ramirez every day of the week and twice on Sundays. The downside is this contract really inflates Crede's value.

SABRSox
11-12-2006, 04:42 PM
The downside is this contract really inflates Crede's value.

I know... :angry:

jabrch
11-12-2006, 04:54 PM
Whoops - What's the Score?

jabrch
11-12-2006, 04:56 PM
5/75

Looks like that sets the bar for Crede, huh? He's gotta be worth about the same as Ramirez, plus or minus a bit.

Makes me even more interested in moving him for a top tier package (I'm thinking Brandon Wood and Howie Kendrick?), bringing up Fields, and using the $ to go out and get Soriano to play LF and lead off.

SABRSox
11-12-2006, 05:02 PM
Makes me even more interested in moving him for a top tier package (I'm thinking Brandon Wood and Howie Kendrick?), bringing up Fields, and using the $ to go out and get Soriano to play LF and lead off.

Drool... Wood and Kendrick? That would be the steal of the century.

AnkleSox
11-12-2006, 05:10 PM
looks like they're bringing back the key pieces to their successful 2006 campaign.

Hitmen77
11-12-2006, 05:22 PM
I think the Cubs were backed into a corner here. They've seen empty seats at Wrigley, their TV ratings were topped by the Sox, and they've been promising everyone that they're going to spend $$$ for next year to fill their gaping holes to become competitive again. The one thing they couldn't afford to do was allow a huge gaping hole to open up at 3rd when they have so many other holes to fill.

So now they've sunk about $15 million per year on Ramirez. Is everyone in the media still going to suggest that they're going to sink another $15 million on Zito and yet another $15 million on Soriano? That would be $45 million on three players. :o: This from a company that's in turmoil with rumors swirling that all or parts of the Tribune might be for sale.

Lip Man 1
11-12-2006, 05:30 PM
Great..can't wait to see another ball bounce off his head blowing another game!

Lip

russ99
11-12-2006, 05:33 PM
Great..can't wait to see another ball bounce off his head blowing another game!

Lip

Funniest Cub moment this season - and there were a lot of funny Cub moments...

:D: :tongue: :D:

jabrch
11-12-2006, 05:46 PM
Drool... Wood and Kendrick? That would be the steal of the century.

Ok - probably...What about just Wood? Crede for one inexpensive year should net us something good, right?

veeter
11-12-2006, 06:04 PM
How does a Ramirez and Wood thread turn into trading Joe Crede? Yes, let's trade the best third baseman in baseball. You guys act like YOU'RE paying Crede.

SOXSINCE'70
11-12-2006, 06:16 PM
Funniest Cub moment this season - and there were a lot of funny Cub moments...

:D: :tongue: :D:

My favorites involed "Jerk" Jones overthrowing
the cutoff man several times.Having never played baseball
(I was never athletic as a kid),my throws from the outfield
are just as horrible.:roflmao: :roflmao:

SABRSox
11-12-2006, 06:28 PM
Ok - probably...What about just Wood? Crede for one inexpensive year should net us something good, right?

I'd do Crede for Brandon Wood and say, oh... Joe Saunders, or Kevin Gregg. Erick Aybar would be a great pickup, if you could pry him away from Stoneman.

SoxFanPrope
11-13-2006, 12:03 AM
I'd do Crede for Brandon Wood and say, oh... Joe Saunders, or Kevin Gregg. Erick Aybar would be a great pickup, if you could pry him away from Stoneman.

Apparently we should've traded Crede or Fields to the Padres.

Giles, Peavy, Barfield for Crede and Mack??

FedEx227
11-13-2006, 12:03 AM
Haha... the Cubs teach great life lessons to kids.

Hey kids, don't run to first base or learn how to play your position defensively just hit some dingers and everything will be just fine.


Or hey... got a glaring problem with your game. Don't fix it, be bullheaded. Don't forget you struck a lot of people out one game a long time ago, just milk that for all it's worth.

StillMissOzzie
11-13-2006, 12:10 AM
I think the Cubs made a terrific signing of Wood. $1.75m.....a good season makes him only $6m. Can't argue with that deal.
Don't forget to add the $3M buyout of his existing contract.

I think the Cubs were backed into a corner here. They've seen empty seats at Wrigley, their TV ratings were topped by the Sox, and they've been promising everyone that they're going to spend $$$ for next year to fill their gaping holes to become competitive again. The one thing they couldn't afford to do was allow a huge gaping hole to open up at 3rd when they have so many other holes to fill.

So now they've sunk about $15 million per year on Ramirez. Is everyone in the media still going to suggest that they're going to sink another $15 million on Zito and yet another $15 million on Soriano? That would be $45 million on three players. :o: This from a company that's in turmoil with rumors swirling that all or parts of the Tribune might be for sale.
Don't forget another $13M for D Lee. That's $58M, potentially, on FOUR guys.

Great..can't wait to see another ball bounce off his head blowing another game!
Lip
The Cubs really screwed the pooch here. By all accounts, they were seeking to ADD power to their lineup, and could ill afford to lose Ramirez.

SMO
:D:

ewokpelts
11-13-2006, 01:04 AM
Talk about inflated sense of value:rolleyes:


I think the Cubs made a terrific signing of Wood. $1.75m.....a good season makes him only $6m. Can't argue with that deal.dont forget his 3 million dollar buyout

TheOldRoman
11-13-2006, 01:29 AM
Haha... the Cubs teach great life lessons to kids.

Hey kids, don't run to first base or learn how to play your position defensively just hit some dingers and everything will be just fine.
It's working for Carlos Lee.

veeter
11-13-2006, 06:38 AM
Congrats cubs, you just re-signed a player you already had, at a higher price. Ramirez is a piece of ****, on the field but he sure can play the fiddle.

Goodman6
11-13-2006, 09:00 AM
Congrats cubs, you just re-signed a player you already had, at a higher price. Ramirez is a piece of ****, on the field but he sure can play the fiddle.

Good post Veeter. I can't believe all the hoopla in the newspapers and radio about the Flubs resigning a lazy P.O.S. 3rd baseman for more money and a sore-armed pitcher that will probably be on the DL by April. Can anyone explain why the mediots in Chicago think these were good moves by the Cubs? This is the same garbage they had on their team last season and they finished in last place .... even below the pathetic Pirates.

veeter
11-13-2006, 09:24 AM
Whether you like Mike Murphy or not, I think his show today will be worth a listen. He hates Ramirez and didn't want the cubs to re-sign him. Believe it or not, I think Murphy has been fun to listen to lately. He's the biggest cub basher in the city. Now, if they start off well next year (before nose diving), he'll be nauseating. But for now, his show is good radio, if you hate the cubs.

Foulke You
11-13-2006, 09:48 AM
I think I can honestly say that Aramis Ramirez might be the most overpaid position player in baseball now for what he brings to the table. He brings below average defense, above average power when he's interested, and a poor work ethic and the Cubs decided to give him Eric Chavez/Vlad Guerrero money!:o: Aramis didn't decide to play better until it was salary drive time in the 2nd half after his team was 25 games out of first.

Honestly, $72 million would have been better spent for Hendry on that sad sack pitching staff of theirs. They could have gotten a stopgap 3B like Joe Randa for much cheaper and then add a couple solid middle of the rotation guys like Ted Lilly or Paul Byrd with that money. Right now, the Cubs have a rotation of Zambrano, a rehabbed Wade Miller, and Rich Hill. As a Sox fan, this Ramirez deal amuses me as it continues to show how Cubs fans and their organization overvalue their own players more than any other team. However, as previous posters pointed out, it sets the bar for Crede and other 3B extremely high.:(:

FedEx227
11-13-2006, 09:51 AM
I think I can honestly say that Aramis Ramirez might be the most overpaid position player in baseball now for what he brings to the table. He brings below average defense, above average power when he's interested, and a poor work ethic and the Cubs decided to give him Eric Chavez/Vlad Guerrero money!:o: Aramis didn't decide to play better until it was salary drive time in the 2nd half after his team was 25 games out of first.

Honestly, $72 million would have been better spent for Hendry on that sad sack pitching staff of theirs. They could have gotten a stopgap 3B like Joe Randa for much cheaper and then add a couple solid middle of the rotation guys like Ted Lilly or Paul Byrd with that money. Right now, the Cubs have a rotation of Zambrano, a rehabbed Wade Miller, and Rich Hill. As a Sox fan, this Ramirez deal amuses me as it continues to show how Cubs fans and their organization overvalue their own players more than any other team. However, as previous posters pointed out, it sets the bar for Crede and other 3B extremely high.:(:

Exactly. When they could've have fixed 3-4 holes at once by getting some not so big name guys they decided to "fix" 1 hole. So now they're rotation still only has 2 (not counting Miller just yet) guys, they will more than likely lose their CF, they think Bob Howry is going to be their closer.

Great move guys, the new era of Cubs baseball has begun!

Foulke You
11-13-2006, 12:31 PM
LOL!! Check out this quote from Hendry:

"He proved to Chicago that when you leave $20 million or $30 million on the table, it's where you want to go," Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said. "Both sides gave a little bit at the end."

Oh yeah, he "proved" something to Chicago alright. Only hustle 50% of the time, put up big numbers when your salary is on the line, make sure you exercise an escape option on a big contract that your team committed to you a couple years ago so you can exploit a weak 3B free agent class, and hold your pathetic team hostage for Vlad Guerrero money just days before the GM meetings. And Mr. Hendry, Ramirez didn't "give" an inch. He took you to the cleaners and both of you know it.

A link to Hendry's quote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061113/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_gm_meetings

Ol' No. 2
11-13-2006, 12:34 PM
I think I can honestly say that Aramis Ramirez might be the most overpaid position player in baseball now for what he brings to the table. He brings below average defense, above average power when he's interested, and a poor work ethic and the Cubs decided to give him Eric Chavez/Vlad Guerrero money!:o: Aramis didn't decide to play better until it was salary drive time in the 2nd half after his team was 25 games out of first.

Honestly, $72 million would have been better spent for Hendry on that sad sack pitching staff of theirs. They could have gotten a stopgap 3B like Joe Randa for much cheaper and then add a couple solid middle of the rotation guys like Ted Lilly or Paul Byrd with that money. Right now, the Cubs have a rotation of Zambrano, a rehabbed Wade Miller, and Rich Hill. As a Sox fan, this Ramirez deal amuses me as it continues to show how Cubs fans and their organization overvalue their own players more than any other team. However, as previous posters pointed out, it sets the bar for Crede and other 3B extremely high.:(:As long as Cubs' roster decisions are based on appealing to their fans rather than building a winner, there's not much danger of October baseball on the north side.

palehozenychicty
11-13-2006, 01:02 PM
As long as Cubs' roster decisions are based on appealing to their fans rather than building a winner, there's not much danger of October baseball on the north side.

Which is ironic because the press was pretty critical of his play during the whole season. The sheep were turning on him, and they brought him back for more cash!:o: Wow. In fact, who wants to take bets on whether Pinella lasts the season?

mcfish
11-13-2006, 02:03 PM
dont forget his 3 million dollar buyoutThe $3 million was gone either way, so between the options of signing Wood for $4.75 million or getting nothing and paying out $3 million, I'd take signing Wood for an extra $1.75 million any time.

They horrifically overpaid for Ramirez. That's about as bad as it gets, I think.

spiffie
11-13-2006, 02:06 PM
Aramis didn't decide to play better until it was salary drive time in the 2nd half after his team was 25 games out of first.

I'm curious how one decides when a player is just refusing to play well versus just being in a slump. Was Jermaine Dye refusing to play well when he was hitting around .200 in the first two months of 2005? Was Juan Uribe refusing to play well and just waiting for next year to turn it on? How come only players that WSI doesn't like who play on teams we don't like seem to be prone to turning on and off when they choose to play, but every White Sox player is just the victim of bad luck? Or did the whole team save one or two guys just choose to play poorly at the end of 2006.

As for the topic of the thread, they should have let Wood go. The guy is just bad mojo to have around at this point, and they could go out and get a more dependable reliever for what they will be paying him if he does anything this year. As for Ramirez, they salvaged an absolutely awful situation created when they gave him the dumbest clause ever in a deal. They ended up getting the second best offensive 3B in baseball for less then he would have gotten on the open market just as he prepares to enter his prime years. I agree he has bad tendencies, but he also had the ultimate enabler as his manager for the last few seasons. I suspect his attitude will be less problematic under Piniella.

Hangar18
11-13-2006, 02:22 PM
Im glad he RE-SIGNED there. He took the Cubs to the BANK
he knows the Cubs print money, why not soak them?
good for you Aramis.

FedEx227
11-13-2006, 04:28 PM
Was Jermaine Dye refusing to play well when he was hitting around .200 in the first two months of 2005? Was Juan Uribe refusing to play well and just waiting for next year to turn it on? How come only players that WSI doesn't like who play on teams we don't like seem to be prone to turning on and off when they choose to play, but every White Sox player is just the victim of bad luck? Or did the whole team save one or two guys just choose to play poorly at the end of 2006.

Theres about a 70 million dollar difference. Aramis has and will now continue to get played like a top-tier talent which he is... HOWEVER it becomes obvious that he doesn't hustle on his way to first base and that he can just call it in. Uribe wasn't refusing to play well, he just can't play well, the great spurts we see out of his are just that, spurts. the JD argument is just stupid.

There is a huge difference, it's not on who we like or don't like, its the fact that Ramirez is painted as a great 3B when we and most of the media know he is not a great team player, doesn't hustle and could do a lot more with what he has and is getting paid to do so.

The Critic
11-13-2006, 05:14 PM
Don't forget another $13M for D Lee. That's $58M, potentially, on FOUR guys.
SMO


Well, to be fair, that will be balanced out by relatively inexpensive players at 2B, LF, and at least 1 or 2 rotation spots. (Murton, Cedeno/Theriot and Marshall/Hill) Not to mention their younger/cheaper middle relief arms like Wuertz, Novoa, etc.

If they happen to land Schmidt (he seems to be the arm they're targeting, from what I've read today) and Soriano (not sure how excited he'd be to play CF, though), they'll be much more competitive in the weak NL Central.
They'd have a fairly impressive offense, with Lee, Barrett, Ramirez, Murton, Soriano and Jones.
They might even win that division, if the Glass Messiah can stay off the DL and Wood can morph into a closer (and stay off the DL himself).

That's a lot of "if's", but stranger things have happened.

chisoxmike
11-13-2006, 06:55 PM
Im glad he RE-SIGNED there. He took the Cubs to the BANK
he knows the Cubs print money, why not soak them?
good for you Aramis.


But by doing this, the dumb ass Cubs management just shot up every other Free Agent's price tag (Soriano, Lee, etc...) by overpaying Aramis.

gf2020
11-13-2006, 07:25 PM
I disagree with the notion that the Cubs overpaid Aramis. The fact is that the Angels and other teams were willing to go another year and add 15-17 million to the Cubs offer. The Cubs got him for less than what the market would pay.

It's not like there are a lot of third basemen out there. The Cubs really had no choice but to sign him.

chisoxmike
11-13-2006, 07:40 PM
It's not like there are a lot of third basemen out there. The Cubs really had no choice but to sign him.


You're right. They had no choice but to sign him. They would have nobody to fill 3B if they let him go. Still, they overpaid, but someone was going to though.

FedEx227
11-13-2006, 08:20 PM
The Cubs did overpay, as did the other teams bidding for him. There are far better ways to spend $73 million.

MUsoxfan
11-13-2006, 08:24 PM
I disagree with the notion that the Cubs overpaid Aramis.

Just because other teams were willing to overpay to the 10th degree doesn't mean it's a smart move to overpay to the 5th degree. Overpaying to a lesser degree is still overpaying.

Hitmen77
11-13-2006, 10:22 PM
Well, to be fair, that will be balanced out by relatively inexpensive players at 2B, LF, and at least 1 or 2 rotation spots. (Murton, Cedeno/Theriot and Marshall/Hill) Not to mention their younger/cheaper middle relief arms like Wuertz, Novoa, etc.

You forgot to mention that they're paying about $4 million/year each (if I'm not mistaken) for Howry and Eyre.

Hitmen77
11-13-2006, 10:25 PM
I disagree with the notion that the Cubs overpaid Aramis. The fact is that the Angels and other teams were willing to go another year and add 15-17 million to the Cubs offer. The Cubs got him for less than what the market would pay.

It's not like there are a lot of third basemen out there. The Cubs really had no choice but to sign him.

....and that's why I think the Sox need to hang on to Josh Fields unless they can negotiate an extension with Crede. Otherwise, Crede and Boras will have the Sox facing the same "break the bank"-or-"have no 3rd baseman" option in a couple of years.

GoSox2K3
11-13-2006, 10:38 PM
LOL!! Check out this quote from Hendry:

"He proved to Chicago that when you leave $20 million or $30 million on the table, it's where you want to go," Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said. "Both sides gave a little bit at the end."

Oh yeah, he "proved" something to Chicago alright. Only hustle 50% of the time, put up big numbers when your salary is on the line, make sure you exercise an escape option on a big contract that your team committed to you a couple years ago so you can exploit a weak 3B free agent class, and hold your pathetic team hostage for Vlad Guerrero money just days before the GM meetings. And Mr. Hendry, Ramirez didn't "give" an inch. He took you to the cleaners and both of you know it.

A link to Hendry's quote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061113/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_gm_meetings

So.....Ramirez signed a $73 million contract and Hendry claims he "left $30 million on the table"? So, someone was seriously going to sign this guy to a $100 million contract?? :?:

Amazing how the media has gone back to their idiotic pro-Cubs spin mode as soon as the season ended.

The Critic
11-14-2006, 10:52 AM
You forgot to mention that they're paying about $4 million/year each (if I'm not mistaken) for Howry and Eyre.

Didn't really forget to mention that - I consider Howry and Eyre back-end bullpen set-up guys, not middle relief.

Brian26
11-14-2006, 09:05 PM
They horrifically overpaid for Ramirez. That's about as bad as it gets, I think.

I still enjoy certain media in this town saying that Ramirez gave the Cubs a hometown discount. That's just insane. He opted out of his contract in order to get a raise, he held out until past the exclusive negotiation period, and then with possible offers from both LA teams on the table, he took the Cubs to the cleaners. If he wanted to truly give them a hometown discount, he never would have opted out of the cheaper contract.

Hitmen77
11-14-2006, 09:49 PM
But by doing this, the dumb ass Cubs management just shot up every other Free Agent's price tag (Soriano, Lee, etc...) by overpaying Aramis.

Yeah, if the Cubs are willing to pay just under $15 million for Ramirez and $4.3 million for a utility man, why would they expect two better and more valuable players - Soriano and Zito - to sign for only $15 million. The price tag for those guys is going to be even more ridiculous.

Looks like Hendry's opening up the checkbook, but I can't believe that the Tribune is giving him a total blank check to pay what it takes to fill all their holes.