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View Full Version : "V" for Victory! (Or Vizquel)!


Cuck_The_Fubs
11-10-2006, 07:00 PM
My dad told me he heard on the radio that Williams seems interested in this man? Thoughts?:?: :cool:

What im really getting at here is, can we really deal with a guy who has less then a .300 obp for one more year?

BanditJimmy
11-10-2006, 07:42 PM
Believe it or not but at age 40+ he had a career year at SS once again.

He would be an excellent #2 hitter come next season and allowing Iguchi to hit 7 next season. Is there an upgrade out there for Uribe when it comes to the glove .... I think he is the only one.

I would be all for it.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-10-2006, 08:17 PM
Believe it or not but at age 40+ he had a career year at SS once again.

He would be an excellent #2 hitter come next season and allowing Iguchi to hit 7 next season. Is there an upgrade out there for Uribe when it comes to the glove .... I think he is the only one.

I would be all for it.

Same here big Jim:)

LuvSox
11-11-2006, 12:36 AM
**** him. He had a chance to sign with us in 05 but passed for a contract one year longer in SF. Meanwhile, he still doesn't have a ring.

BanditJimmy
11-11-2006, 01:31 AM
**** him. He had a chance to sign with us in 05 but passed for a contract one year longer in SF. Meanwhile, he still doesn't have a ring.



Does any of that nonesense matter when it comes to trying to win a ring in 2007?


No question, he makes the 2007 White Sox a much better team.

LuvSox
11-11-2006, 10:56 AM
Does any of that nonesense matter when it comes to trying to win a ring in 2007?


No question, he makes the 2007 White Sox a much better team.

He didn't matter in 2005.

oeo
11-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Does any of that nonesense matter when it comes to trying to win a ring in 2007?


No question, he makes the 2007 White Sox a much better team.

I don't think it's worth what we would have to give up for a one-year rental (and that's what it would be). He had his chance to come here two years ago and turned it down, so he can retire without a ring.

fquaye149
11-11-2006, 11:31 AM
Does any of that nonesense matter when it comes to trying to win a ring in 2007?


No question, he makes the 2007 White Sox a much better team.

No question? The guy's older than Methuselah. There's a BIG question and it's called his age. I think he WOULD probably make us better....but probably only slightly (especially when he's not up against NL West pitching), and at what price? AT WHAT PRICE!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?:o:

chisoxmike
11-11-2006, 12:53 PM
He isn't worth it.

Chips
11-11-2006, 12:57 PM
He isn't worth it.

No, he really isn't.

champagne030
11-11-2006, 01:07 PM
No question? The guy's older than Methuselah. There's a BIG question and it's called his age. I think he WOULD probably make us better....but probably only slightly (especially when he's not up against NL West pitching), and at what price? AT WHAT PRICE!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?:o:

That's the key. Broadway??? HELL NO! Logan??? HELL YES!!!

Palehose Pete
11-11-2006, 01:23 PM
Hmmm... Let's see... How many ex-Indian players can cycle through the Sox on their last season or so in the Bigs?

- Alomar, Sandy
- Alomar, Robby
- Thome (OK, OK, he's still the man)
- Visquel?

No, no and more no to signing Visquel.

skobabe8
11-11-2006, 02:04 PM
Hmmm... Let's see... How many ex-Indian players can cycle through the Sox on their last season or so in the Bigs?

- Alomar, Sandy
- Alomar, Robby
- Thome (OK, OK, he's still the man)
- Visquel?

No, no and more no to signing Visquel.

- Bell, Albert
- Lofton, Kenny

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-11-2006, 02:41 PM
Hmmm... Let's see... How many ex-Indian players can cycle through the Sox on their last season or so in the Bigs?

- Alomar, Sandy
- Alomar, Robby
- Thome (OK, OK, he's still the man)
- Visquel?

No, no and more no to signing Visquel.


Visquel is on Williams's love seat.....

SABRSox
11-11-2006, 04:28 PM
I still haven't heard a better option than Uribe.

Sox Insider
11-11-2006, 06:19 PM
I still haven't heard a better option than Uribe.

What about Micheal Young would love to see him in a Sox uniform

Jjav829
11-11-2006, 06:29 PM
My dad told me he heard on the radio that Williams seems interested in this man? Thoughts?:?: :cool:

What im really getting at here is, can we really deal with a guy who has less then a .300 obp for one more year?

Ehh, I guess. Depends on the big picture. What are we giving up? What becomes of Uribe? There are a lot of other factors involved, but I would rather have Vizquel than Uribe for next season.

SABRSox
11-11-2006, 06:33 PM
What about Micheal Young would love to see him in a Sox uniform

Is that a realistic option?

Sox Insider
11-11-2006, 06:35 PM
Is that a realistic option?

Well he is on the trade market and Texas needs alot of pitching So I guess anything is possible..

BanditJimmy
11-11-2006, 07:29 PM
I would list ten guys I would rather have before Uribe FOR ONE SEASON.

Vizquel would be one of them.

4 errors in 150+ games last year at SS ..... at age 41, are you kidding me?


Yes, a ture arguement would be: "What will it cost us?"


But get off this crap like:

"He had a chance to be here in '05 and went the other way"
"He's too old"
"How many more former Indians are coming here"


If you don't think this guy can still play, I don't know what to say.

Here is where some of his last year's numbers would have ranked on our team and also those same numbers compared to Uribe:

Runs - 88 - ranked 5th (Uribe 53)
Hits- 171 - ranked 2nd (Uribe 109)
Triples 10 - ranked 1st (Uribe 2)
SB - 24 - ranked 2nd (Uribe 1)
BA- .295 - ranked 3rd (Uribe .235)
OBP- .361 -ranked 4th (Uribe .257)


I would pencil those numbers above to the number 2 hole in a heart beat.

SABRSox
11-11-2006, 08:15 PM
I would list ten guys I would rather have before Uribe FOR ONE SEASON.

Vizquel would be one of them.

4 errors in 150+ games last year at SS ..... at age 41, are you kidding me?


Yes, a ture arguement would be: "What will it cost us?"


But get off this crap like:

"He had a chance to be here in '05 and went the other way"
"He's too old"
"How many more former Indians are coming here"


If you don't think this guy can still play, I don't know what to say.

Here is where some of his last year's numbers would have ranked on our team and also those same numbers compared to Uribe:

Runs - 88 - ranked 5th (Uribe 53)
Hits- 171 - ranked 2nd (Uribe 109)
Triples 10 - ranked 1st (Uribe 2)
SB - 24 - ranked 2nd (Uribe 1)
BA- .295 - ranked 3rd (Uribe .235)
OBP- .361 -ranked 4th (Uribe .257)


I would pencil those numbers above to the number 2 hole in a heart beat.

See, the trick is get a player during a career year, and not pay for that year the next season, where he's not likely to perform as well. I don't want Vizquel. He could turn into crap at any moment.

MarySwiss
11-11-2006, 08:46 PM
See, the trick is get a player during a career year, and not pay for that year the next season, where he's not likely to perform as well. I don't want Vizquel. He could turn into crap at any moment.

Ding! Hit the nail! Reminds me of an e-mail I got from my brother earlier today about re-signing Aramis Ramirez. And I quote:

"It wasn't until the White Sox figured out that you don't pay millions to guys who are about STATS, not baseball, that they finally turned the corner. I wonder if the Cubs will ever figure that out."

So "no" to Vizquel.

Beautox
11-11-2006, 09:07 PM
I would list ten guys I would rather have before Uribe FOR ONE SEASON.

Vizquel would be one of them.

4 errors in 150+ games last year at SS ..... at age 41, are you kidding me?


Yes, a ture arguement would be: "What will it cost us?"


But get off this crap like:

"He had a chance to be here in '05 and went the other way"
"He's too old"
"How many more former Indians are coming here"


If you don't think this guy can still play, I don't know what to say.

Here is where some of his last year's numbers would have ranked on our team and also those same numbers compared to Uribe:

Runs - 88 - ranked 5th (Uribe 53)
Hits- 171 - ranked 2nd (Uribe 109)
Triples 10 - ranked 1st (Uribe 2)
SB - 24 - ranked 2nd (Uribe 1)
BA- .295 - ranked 3rd (Uribe .235)
OBP- .361 -ranked 4th (Uribe .257)


I would pencil those numbers above to the number 2 hole in a heart beat.

I'm with you i'd love to see Omar on the south side in '07. I don't see the sox picking up Uribes 5mil option in '08 unless he reverts to his '04 form, and with the giants having both Durham and Alou in FA, Uribe would provide GG defense and some pop for them, also getting them a bit younger if he does turn it around in '07 the giants they can pick up his opition and if not they're not left holding the bag hes got a .3 buy out in '08. Omar rakes against LHP .340 Avg, and hes still a GG at SS. Sign me up.

Deal Uribe and Phillips/Tracey/Logan/Perez to the giants for Omar Vizquel.

Let Sweeney have a shot at LF or try and aquire someone like Chris Denorfia or Melky Cabrera for Gload and Cotts. Both the reds and yankees need a 1B and BP help and Melky and Chris are going to be used in reserve roles for their respective teams or get Reggie Willits from the Angels.


LF Cabrera S / Denorfia R / Willits S or 2B Iguchi R
SS Vizquel S
RF Dye R
DH Thome L
1B Konerko R
3B Crede R
C AJP L
2B Iguchi R or Anderson R
CF Anderson R or LF Sweeney L

I could even live with Pierre in LF if we got Omar.

Jjav829
11-11-2006, 09:36 PM
Ding! Hit the nail! Reminds me of an e-mail I got from my brother earlier today about re-signing Aramis Ramirez. And I quote:

"It wasn't until the White Sox figured out that you don't pay millions to guys who are about STATS, not baseball, that they finally turned the corner. I wonder if the Cubs will ever figure that out."

So "no" to Vizquel.

Huh? Are you trying to say Vizquel is all about his numbers? :?:

I don't see any comparison between Ramirez and Vizquel, other than they both have a "Z" in their last name. Vizquel has made his name playing solid baseball - great defense, stealing bases, bunting and just playing good fundamental baseball. Ramirez likes to hit home runs.

Domeshot17
11-11-2006, 09:44 PM
Vizquel may turn to crap at any moment, which would mean what, he hits 240, OBP below .300 runs the bases bad, makes stupid errors, stops playing hard.... ESSENTIALLY BECOMING JUAN URIBE.

The Uribe love is worse then the Rowand love. He made a freaking amazing catch in the world series. I thank him for that. He also did jack crap to help us in 2006, and we missed the playoffs. He doesnt seem interested in playing hard anymore. His own manager, who is his biggest fan, called him out on not being focused and not playing hard.

23Ventura
11-11-2006, 09:50 PM
Vizquel may turn to crap at any moment, which would mean what, he hits 240, OBP below .300 runs the bases bad, makes stupid errors, stops playing hard.... ESSENTIALLY BECOMING JUAN URIBE.

The Uribe love is worse then the Rowand love. He made a freaking amazing catch in the world series. I thank him for that. He also did jack crap to help us in 2006, and we missed the playoffs. He doesnt seem interested in playing hard anymore. His own manager, who is his biggest fan, called him out on not being focused and not playing hard.
Exactly. I'd take Vizquel over Uribe in a heartbeat.

crazyozzie02
11-12-2006, 02:40 AM
But if we aquire Vizquel, where are we gonna put AROD?

CubsfansareDRUNK
11-12-2006, 03:12 AM
Vizquel may turn to crap at any moment, which would mean what, he hits 240, OBP below .300 runs the bases bad, makes stupid errors, stops playing hard.... ESSENTIALLY BECOMING JUAN URIBE.

The Uribe love is worse then the Rowand love. He made a freaking amazing catch in the world series. I thank him for that. He also did jack crap to help us in 2006, and we missed the playoffs. He doesnt seem interested in playing hard anymore. His own manager, who is his biggest fan, called him out on not being focused and not playing hard.

Plus he shot a guy.....

Anyways, IF we do trade Yourebay, I see him going to an NL team. Just a hunch.

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-12-2006, 04:14 AM
Plus he shot a guy.....


He was cleared for that.

If we're gonna get rid of Uribe, why not shoot for someone a little younger? Vizquel is a good player but is he really worth it for 1 year? The guy's 41, his best is behind him. There are other SS: Young, Gonzalez, etc.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-12-2006, 07:06 AM
He was cleared for that.

If we're gonna get rid of Uribe, why not shoot for someone a little younger? Vizquel is a good player but is he really worth it for 1 year? The guy's 41, his best is behind him. There are other SS: Young, Gonzalez, etc.

Yes, he is worth a 1 year deal. Hermie is the best in the business u know.

Craig Grebeck
11-12-2006, 08:45 AM
Ding! Hit the nail! Reminds me of an e-mail I got from my brother earlier today about re-signing Aramis Ramirez. And I quote:

"It wasn't until the White Sox figured out that you don't pay millions to guys who are about STATS, not baseball, that they finally turned the corner. I wonder if the Cubs will ever figure that out."

So "no" to Vizquel.
That is the worst argument I've ever heard. Aramis Ramirez is one of the best young hitters in the game. Omar Vizquel is a light hitting, 41 year old SS.

Be sure to e-mail your brother and let him know about our starting pitching in 2005.

Craig Grebeck
11-12-2006, 09:27 AM
Furthermore, how in the world would the Cubs benefit from letting Ramirez walk? The guy has had OPS+ of 136,137, and 126 the last three seasons.

TornLabrum
11-12-2006, 09:51 AM
Yes, he is worth a 1 year deal. Hermie is the best in the business u know.

So those magnetic bracelets reverse the aging process, too?

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-12-2006, 10:14 AM
So those magnetic bracelets reverse the aging process, too?

So the man is old! we get it. But let me ask u this question:

When Uribe is a steaming pile of crap when it comes to getting on base, how is everyone going to react?

Besides, 2004 was a career season for YourEbay. He has been underperforming since, and had been a cancer for the 2006 CWS.

TornLabrum
11-12-2006, 11:35 AM
So the man is old! we get it. But let me ask u this question:

When Uribe is a steaming pile of crap when it comes to getting on base, how is everyone going to react?

Besides, 2004 was a career season for YourEbay. He has been underperforming since, and had been a cancer for the 2006 CWS.

And let me ask you this: What will the fans say if we do acquire Vizquel and he starts playing like his age?

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-12-2006, 11:44 AM
And let me ask you this: What will the fans say if we do acquire Vizquel and he starts playing like his age?

The 2007 CWS would have 3 eligible shortstops: Vizquel, R-mack, and SinTron. We could use alternate players IF something was to happen. If something was to happen, it would be a low risk/ high reward oppertunity.

REGARDLESS as to what could happen, any alternate SS would have a better at bat, OBP, and would be faster overall.

munchman33
11-12-2006, 12:03 PM
And let me ask you this: What will the fans say if we do acquire Vizquel and he starts playing like his age?

I'd feel better about it than I do about seeing Uribe hit like Visquel's age again.

lakeviewsoxfan
11-12-2006, 12:12 PM
The 2007 CWS would have 3 eligible shortstops: Vizquel, R-mack, and SinTron. We could use alternate players IF something was to happen. If something was to happen, it would be a low risk/ high reward oppertunity.

REGARDLESS as to what could happen, any alternate SS would have a better at bat, OBP, and would be faster overall.

Mack is not a SS, jeez he is a back-up 3B and corner OF thats it we all saw what happens when he plays out of position it probably cost us a playoff berth.

fquaye149
11-12-2006, 12:21 PM
Any of you armchair GM's notice that Vizquel WAS sort of hitting like his age until he went to the NL?

Jjav829
11-12-2006, 12:39 PM
Any of you armchair GM's notice that Vizquel WAS sort of hitting like his age until he went to the NL?

2004 with CLE - .291/.353/.388/.741
2005 with SF - .271/.341/.350/.691
2006 with SF - .295/.361/.389/.749

I guess my answer would be "No, I haven't noticed that he was hitting his age until he went to the NL." :tongue:

dickallen15
11-12-2006, 12:43 PM
I kind of like the idea of having Uribe play SS during a contract year for him. He's playing for a big payday. Vizquel is playing for a 1 or 2 year deal. If KW was convinced Vizquel would be able to play 3 seasons 2 years ago, he would have just had to add $2 million to the deal and another year and Omar would have been at SS. Iguchi would have been somewhere else, maybe even AJP. Omar at least was a magician defensively. I haven't seen him the last couple of years, but he's probably no better defensively than Uribe, and may be a little behind him at this point. Uribe's arm is invaluable. Offensively, Vizquel is better overall, but put another year on him and give Uribe some motivation by playing for a contract, Uribe could be head and shoulders better than him next year. It wasn't too long ago people around here were looking to replace Joe Crede with Joe Randa. I think you could be looking at the same kind of scenerio.

fquaye149
11-12-2006, 01:02 PM
2004 with CLE - .291/.353/.388/.741
2005 with SF - .271/.341/.350/.691
2006 with SF - .295/.361/.389/.749

I guess my answer would be "No, I haven't noticed that he was hitting his age until he went to the NL." :tongue:

PWNED!

next time i'll look up the #'s instead of just vaguely remembering how Vizquel played against the Sox:redface:

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-12-2006, 01:08 PM
AS far as I see it, i dunno why anyone would want to sacrifice a bat like we did last year with Uribe

SABRSox
11-12-2006, 01:25 PM
I kind of like the idea of having Uribe play SS during a contract year for him. He's playing for a big payday. Vizquel is playing for a 1 or 2 year deal. If KW was convinced Vizquel would be able to play 3 seasons 2 years ago, he would have just had to add $2 million to the deal and another year and Omar would have been at SS. Iguchi would have been somewhere else, maybe even AJP. Omar at least was a magician defensively. I haven't seen him the last couple of years, but he's probably no better defensively than Uribe, and may be a little behind him at this point. Uribe's arm is invaluable. Offensively, Vizquel is better overall, but put another year on him and give Uribe some motivation by playing for a contract, Uribe could be head and shoulders better than him next year. It wasn't too long ago people around here were looking to replace Joe Crede with Joe Randa. I think you could be looking at the same kind of scenerio.

I have to agree here. It's amazing how well players suddenly play when they've got a contract year coming up. See Adrian Beltre.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-12-2006, 02:39 PM
I have to agree here. It's amazing how well players suddenly play when they've got a contract year coming up. See Adrian Beltre.

Ya, and those guys are never team players. NEVER. See Aramis Ramirez.

Craig Grebeck
11-12-2006, 03:20 PM
Ya, and those guys are never team players. NEVER. See Aramis Ramirez.
Yeah, considering this was his worst season in three years. What a jerk.

Also, Thome's contract year was his best ever, BY A LOT. What a cancer. But whatever suits a horrible argument.

beck72
11-13-2006, 06:36 AM
And let me ask you this: What will the fans say if we do acquire Vizquel and he starts playing like his age?

It can't be any worse than what Uribe in his prime has been giving the sox. If the got Omar, it would be for 07. If he wants to play past that, and performs well, a yr to yr deal should work.

spiffie
11-13-2006, 10:31 AM
2004 with CLE - .291/.353/.388/.741
2005 with SF - .271/.341/.350/.691
2006 with SF - .295/.361/.389/.749

I guess my answer would be "No, I haven't noticed that he was hitting his age until he went to the NL." :tongue:
Stats long ceased to matter in this conversation when someone called 2006 Vizquel's "career year". (not to harp on it, as I see the mea culpa, just that when the discussion turns to Uribe, everything ends up becoming "he made a great catch and he has a ring! YAY JUAN!)

I'm just glad Kenny Williams is the GM, as he doesn't have the luxury of complete blind devotion to any player from the 2005 team, even if it cripples the team for years going forward.

buehrle4cy05
11-13-2006, 10:41 AM
I'd take him if I trusted Valido a little bit more.

Iguana775
11-13-2006, 10:49 AM
**** him. He had a chance to sign with us in 05 but passed for a contract one year longer in SF. Meanwhile, he still doesn't have a ring.

Who's to say that with him at SS, the Sox would have won it. Uribe played well that year.