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View Full Version : Tiggers Acquire Sheffield, Add to "Roiders" Collection


patbooyah
11-10-2006, 03:36 PM
well, another roider for the tiggers

According to SI.com, the Tigers have acquired Gary Sheffield from the Yankees for Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett.
Nov. 10 - 3:37 pm et

Jaffar
11-10-2006, 03:36 PM
Per Dan Patrick ESPN radio 1000

Jaffar
11-10-2006, 03:37 PM
Yeah, I just posted that at the same time, crazy.

Kogs35
11-10-2006, 03:39 PM
buster olney on espnews right now, and his contract was extended but onley doesnt know how long

Trav
11-10-2006, 03:40 PM
If this is true, I can't wait for him to quit on them or shoot his mouth off just like he has done everywhere else.

Flight #24
11-10-2006, 03:40 PM
:o:

That's quite a haul for the Yanks for Sheff. And while I think overall this is not a great deal for the Tigers, it's certainly a significant improvement to their team for '07. The Central keeps getting tougher.........

Good news: You'd think this makes it tough for the Tigers to acquire another major contract either via trade or FA. But you never know.

QCIASOXFAN
11-10-2006, 03:43 PM
I used to like Sheffield back in the day, but over the last 5 years I have thought that he has turned into a ****head. This just gives me another reason to hate him.:cool:

twsoxfan5
11-10-2006, 03:44 PM
I think that makes them a lot stronger. I wish someone else would have gotten him.

D. TODD
11-10-2006, 03:44 PM
According to SI.com, the Tigers have acquired Gary Sheffield from the Yankees for Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett.
Nov. 10 - 3:37 pm et Sheff can be a huge help to the Tigers, but he is also a HUGE risk. He can easily blow up and tear that team apart. Leyland seems to be the type of manager who can handle this type of player, we"ll have to wait and see how this one works out, as I have no real confidence either way to this being a good or bad move. A lot of risk & reward in this move for the defending A.L. champs.

Any scouting reports on the prospects the Tigers gave up. I'm sure they are some of the better young arms, but I seem to recall a guy named Tata or something like that being their premiere prospect?

veeter
11-10-2006, 03:48 PM
What position is he going to play?

Jerko
11-10-2006, 03:49 PM
Dh

The Immigrant
11-10-2006, 03:50 PM
What position is he going to play?

He should be their everyday DH. Maybe play a little LF (or 1B if Casey departs). This probably makes Thames expendable.

BBaum21
11-10-2006, 03:52 PM
Sheff can be a huge help to the Tigers, but he is also a HUGE risk. He can easily blow up and tear that team apart. Leyland seems to be the type of manager who can handle this type of player, we"ll have to wait and see how this one works out, as I have no real confidence either way to this being a good or bad move. A lot of risk & reward in this move for the defending A.L. champs.

Any scouting reports on the prospects the Tigers gave up. I'm sure they are some of the better young arms, but I seem to recall a guy named Tata or something like that being their premiere prospect?

Sanchez is pretty highly regarded throughout baseball circles.

veeter
11-10-2006, 03:53 PM
To me, they can have him. Does he seem like the guy to put the Tigers over the top? Only if every little thing falls into place, but I don't see that happening.

soxfan13
11-10-2006, 03:54 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656847&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

heres the little blip!

Trav
11-10-2006, 03:57 PM
Unless he bats leadoff, I don't see this helping them that much.

goon
11-10-2006, 04:02 PM
To me, they can have him. Does he seem like the guy to put the Tigers over the top? Only if every little thing falls into place, but I don't see that happening.

that's my mind state. obviously, this is an upgrade for the lineup, but i don't know if will be enough to hold off other teams in the central. they are going to need to make another big move to scare me.

buehrle4cy05
11-10-2006, 04:03 PM
What Detroit needed was a powerful lefty DH.

Sheffield is not a lefty.

Their 3-4-5 could go Roidriguez/Sheffield/Ordonez, any combination of those 3 or Placido Polanco in the 3 hole. Unless they're willing to bat Casey in the cleanup spot, they will have 3 righties in a row in the middle of the order.

Foulke You
11-10-2006, 04:05 PM
that's my mind state. obviously, this is an upgrade for the lineup, but i don't know if will be enough to hold off other teams in the central. they are going to need to make another big move to scare me.
Well, if he's healthy, he is definitely a significant DH upgrade over Marcus Thames. A middle of the lineup that has Monroe/Ordonez/Sheffield is pretty formidable assuming 100% health of course.

I have no idea who the Tigers gave up to get him though. Perhaps some of our Tigers posters like Oblong can chime in with how big these prospects were in the Tigers organization.

SABRSox
11-10-2006, 04:07 PM
They gave up a lot of good prospects to get him. Especially Sanchez. I like this trade for NY more.

cbotnyse
11-10-2006, 04:10 PM
this is not good news if he stays healthy.

AnkleSox
11-10-2006, 04:10 PM
For a team that i respected during the season, i've sure grown to hate them, and this takes it even further.

I-Roid, Maggs, Monroe, Rogers, and now Sheffield. Guess it is the perfect city for all those jerks to play though.

Oblong
11-10-2006, 04:14 PM
I think the Tigers made a great deal. Sanchez is a highly touted but he's also injury prone. Whelan's well thought of by fans but I don't think he's anything special. Decent prospects but if you want a great when healthy hitter then you have to give something up.

I'm happy with it. Getting a premier slugger for non major leaguers or blue chip prospects is a good deal most of the time.

The key is his health and age. He was given a 2 year extension. Leyland loves him and he loves Leyland.

Other Mike
11-10-2006, 04:15 PM
The pick up Sheffield, and don't lose anyone off their major league roster. They obviously had a hole in the power department at first base.

Sanchez was a high level prospect for them, and shined at last year's prospect game at the all star break. With their starting rotation back, and the signing of Miller (1st rd pick), there wasn't room for him in Detroit.

The other guys were single a players.

spiffie
11-10-2006, 04:20 PM
This is a very good move for them. They still have Thames as backup if Sheffield gets injured, and since he got his extension I doubt he'll be causing any problems. They've added a solid piece to a 95 win team without giving up anything of consequence.

Of course, we added a solid piece to a 99-win team and ended up in 3rd place last year, so who knows?

SABRSox
11-10-2006, 04:23 PM
I'm happy with it. Getting a premier slugger for non major leaguers or blue chip prospects is a good deal most of the time.

Sanchez is a blue chip prospect. He's arguably the Tigers' #1 pitching prospect (with Miller being a close #2). And Whelan was a pretty good one too. Maybe #5 pitching prospect. You guys gave up quite a bit to get Sheffield. More than we gave up to get Thome.

You'd better hope that pitching sticks around. I'll tell you one thing, we'll all be watching Kenny Rogers like a hawk. There's no way he repeats his cheater numbers from this year.

goon
11-10-2006, 04:24 PM
Well, if he's healthy, he is definitely a significant DH upgrade over Marcus Thames. A middle of the lineup that has Monroe/Ordonez/Sheffield is pretty formidable assuming 100% health of course.



on top of that assumption, think of what happens if the tigers struggles next year. how do you think gary would handle something like that? even with leyland as manager.

i'm not saying it's a bad a pickup, it's just that not only is his health (age) in question, but his attitude. plus he's going to a place that is even more of a pitcher's park than yankee stadium in comerica. he fits the piece of the puzzle that was missing, yet, as a sox fan, i'm not sweating it.

EastCoastSoxFan
11-10-2006, 04:26 PM
Leyland did manage Sheffield on the '97 Marlins, so I'm guessing that is the basis for believing that their personalities won't clash...
Also, the one thing the Sox supposedly "needed" after the '05 championship was a big bat for the middle of the order.
We got it, he produced as expected, and we missed the playoffs 'cause our pitching fell off.
Even if Sheffield does produce as expected for the Tigers next year, he alone will not make up for their every one of their pitchers not named Rogers pretty much taking a big fat crap in the World Series...

Oblong
11-10-2006, 04:30 PM
Sanchez is a blue chip prospect. He's arguably the Tigers' #1 pitching prospect (with Miller being a close #2). And Whelan was a pretty good one too. Maybe #5 pitching prospect. You guys gave up quite a bit to get Sheffield. More than we gave up to get Thome.

You'd better hope that pitching sticks around. I'll tell you one thing, we'll all be watching Kenny Rogers like a hawk. There's no way he repeats his cheater numbers from this year.

I think Sanchez's health problems is a cause for concern and made him expendable. Whelan's pretty good but a good draft system should be able to replace him.

The Immigrant
11-10-2006, 04:31 PM
Leyland did manage Sheffield on the '97 Marlins, so I'm guessing that is the basis for believing that their personalities won't clash...

That was pre-BALCO and two hat sizes ago.

oeo
11-10-2006, 04:33 PM
The guy is a headcase, nearing forty, overpaid, and on the decline...enjoy.

On the other hand, I think the Yanks made out pretty well.

SABRSox
11-10-2006, 04:34 PM
That was pre-BALCO and two hat sizes ago.

Exactly. No roids + spacious Comerica Park= overpaid OF, blocking the way of Sox killer Craig Monroe. And they gave up 3 pitching prospects to get him? This is bad how?

EastCoastSoxFan
11-10-2006, 04:35 PM
That was pre-BALCO and two hat sizes ago.True, but Ivan Rodriguez was supposedly a model citizen last year...

cheeses_h_rice
11-10-2006, 04:40 PM
Sheffield is on the downward arc of his career. I predict this won't end well for the Tiggers.

lakeviewsoxfan
11-10-2006, 04:50 PM
The Tigers would have been better off trading for Adam Dunn IMO. I see this trade working out for the Yanks alot more than the Tigers. Anyone know how much he received for the 2 year extension??

champagne030
11-10-2006, 05:12 PM
The Tigers would have been better off trading for Adam Dunn IMO. I see this trade working out for the Yanks alot more than the Tigers. Anyone know how much he received for the 2 year extension??

$20M and an unlimited supply of HGH.

CLR01
11-10-2006, 05:14 PM
Eh...they still finish in third place, at best.

KRS1
11-10-2006, 05:39 PM
This helps the Yankees pitching a lot. At worst they gain two good young pen arms, eliminating Sturtze, and Villone. Then there's always the best case scenario where Sanchez becomes a mainstay in their rotation. Claggett's not a bad toss in either. The Yanks could have some good, live young arms in their pen this season between Bruney and these two.

Lip Man 1
11-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Assuming Leyland can keep Sheffield in line (and I think Leyland is tough enough to do so) this is a good deal for the Tigers...three kids who may or may not pan out for a proven major league hitter.

Flight is right, the Central is the toughest division in baseball.

Lip

ws05champs
11-10-2006, 06:36 PM
The guy is a headcase, nearing forty, overpaid, and on the decline...enjoy.

On the other hand, I think the Yanks made out pretty well.

Funny story in The Onion about Sheffield

Linky (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55033)

"Gary is in a very bad mood today—you can tell by the way he's gnawing at his straight jacket—so please, for the love of God, whatever you do, keep your voice down and don't give him a reason to attack,"

Oblong
11-10-2006, 07:06 PM
Sheffield's going to primarily DH.

When I said it's a good deal, that wasn't to imply that the Yanks got hosed. It's just that it's a good deal for both clubs. The Yanks got 3 prospects for a guy they were going to let go. Brilliant move by Cashman to pick up that option. The Tigers drafted pitchers from the get go when Dombrowski got there and this is the reason why.

Flight #24
11-10-2006, 07:47 PM
I wonder if in true Yankee style, they'd be willing to flip the guys they just got for Garcia? From their perspective, that would be a straight up trade of Sheff for Freddy, which can only be a good move in their eyes.

Sox get excellent young pitching, and could possibly even flip 2 of these 3 to Tampa for Crawford or to Texas (with Uribe) for Young.

A. Cavatica
11-10-2006, 08:45 PM
I wonder if in true Yankee style, they'd be willing to flip the guys they just got for Garcia? From their perspective, that would be a straight up trade of Sheff for Freddy, which can only be a good move in their eyes.

Sox get excellent young pitching, and could possibly even flip 2 of these 3 to Tampa for Crawford or to Texas (with Uribe) for Young.

That's exactly what I was thinking. The Yankees don't break in many rookies. They picked up those guys to use in trades.

Domeshot17
11-10-2006, 09:11 PM
I dont get how any of you think this is a good thing for the White Sox.

Gary Sheffield moving to a full time DH position will increase his career. He is a great hitter and he adds a major power boost to a team who didnt have a ton of true power. He is an offensive threat in the lineup, and the biggest thing, THEY DID NOT HAVE TO PART WITH 1 MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHER TO GET HIM. I mean, a week ago it was Bonderman for this guy or that guy, and now they keep their ace and add a big time bat to their lineup. Plus you have a gary sheffield determined to prove his critics wrong.

This was a MAJOR pick up for the Tigers. And I think this is just as big as Thome for the sox. Remember when everyone else said "Thome big deal he is done, old and hurt" same with Thomas. Don't write off Sheffield yet.

A. Cavatica
11-10-2006, 09:40 PM
I can't believe Cashman would trade Sheffield to a team he's probably going to face in the playoffs!

sullythered
11-10-2006, 09:48 PM
Meh. My guess: He'll put up some numbers, and the Tigs will win fewer games than they did last year.

oeo
11-10-2006, 10:15 PM
I dont get how any of you think this is a good thing for the White Sox.

Gary Sheffield moving to a full time DH position will increase his career. He is a great hitter and he adds a major power boost to a team who didnt have a ton of true power. He is an offensive threat in the lineup, and the biggest thing, THEY DID NOT HAVE TO PART WITH 1 MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHER TO GET HIM. I mean, a week ago it was Bonderman for this guy or that guy, and now they keep their ace and add a big time bat to their lineup. Plus you have a gary sheffield determined to prove his critics wrong.

This was a MAJOR pick up for the Tigers. And I think this is just as big as Thome for the sox. Remember when everyone else said "Thome big deal he is done, old and hurt" same with Thomas. Don't write off Sheffield yet.

Quite frankly, I don't think the Tigers are that good of a team. They had an amazing first half (with a ton of pulling wins out of their ass) and they lived off of that. They did nothing in the second half and just happened to heat up in the postseason. The two World Series teams were just not that good, that's why it sucked. That's my opinion, and we'll have to wait until the 2007 season is over to find out, but I don't think they place any better than third next year. With a some tweaks from the Indians, they may sit at fourth.

Grzegorz
11-10-2006, 10:45 PM
Sheff can be a huge help to the Tigers, but he is also a HUGE risk. He can easily blow up and tear that team apart.

I agree totally; this to me (who is nothing in the industry other than a fan) find this to be a bad move on the Tigers part.

If Sheff was dealt to our beloved Chicago White Sox I'd be sick.


The key is his health and age. He was given a 2 year extension. Leyland loves him and he loves Leyland.

This is the crux of the problem; he's not proved that he can remain healthy. Health is something that one can exercise some control over though it becomes harder as one grows older. Age cannot be controlled period.

So, here we have an individual that has:
* Has shown a tendency to disrupt team chemistry in the past
* Is prone to injury
* Is an older player

Very risky move indeed...

FarWestChicago
11-10-2006, 10:57 PM
I think the Tigers made a great deal. Sanchez is a highly touted but he's also injury prone. Whelan's well thought of by fans but I don't think he's anything special. Decent prospects but if you want a great when healthy hitter then you have to give something up.

I'm happy with it. Getting a premier slugger for non major leaguers or blue chip prospects is a good deal most of the time.

The key is his health and age. He was given a 2 year extension. Leyland loves him and he loves Leyland.Are you looking to sign Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero and Canseco, too? Jesus, only the scum laden A's, the Mecca of 'roids, are keeping you from being the most heinous team of despicalble cheaters in baseball, if not sports, history. Is this really what you want. You had the ****ing Series in your hands and laid down like dogs against the lowly, weak, soft Cardinals. Give it up. Win with dignity or give it up. I used to respect you as a fan. You suck now. :puking:

Oh yeah, Sham-ME SoSo has a new medication and is looking for a shot, too. :rolleyes:

Oblong
11-10-2006, 11:25 PM
Are you looking to sign Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero and Canseco, too? Jesus, only the scum laden A's, the Mecca of 'roids, are keeping you from being the most heinous team of despicalble cheaters in baseball, if not sports, history. Is this really what you want. You had the ****ing Series in your hands and laid down like dogs against the lowly, weak, soft Cardinals. Give it up. Win with dignity or give it up. I used to respect you as a fan. You suck now. :puking:

Oh yeah, Sham-ME SoSo has a new medication and is looking for a shot, too. :rolleyes:

What does the 2006 World Series have to do with Gary Sheffield?

You are telling me if Thome got hurt and you ahd the chance to have Sheffield on the Sox you wouldn't take him?

JB98
11-10-2006, 11:56 PM
What does the 2006 World Series have to do with Gary Sheffield?

You are telling me if Thome got hurt and you ahd the chance to have Sheffield on the Sox you wouldn't take him?

I won't speak for West, but there's no ****ing way on this earth I'd want Sheffield on the Sox. He's coming off a major injury. He's been an attitude problem his whole career, starting way back in Milwaukee when he intentionally committed throwing errors in an attempt to force management to trade him. There has been no shortage of speculation surrounding him with regard to steroid abuse. He is a me-first, moody motormouth, and his production is no longer good enough to make such nonsense tolerable.

I'm glad he's the Tigers' problem now.

Slats
11-11-2006, 12:03 AM
Sheffield, he's a bum. Less than a bum. He's a cheat and a "me first" player.
He will destroy whatever clubhouse chemistry the Tigers had.
Go to Detroit Gary.
Work your magic.
Knock them Tigers back to last place where they belong.

oeo
11-11-2006, 12:27 AM
What does the 2006 World Series have to do with Gary Sheffield?

You are telling me if Thome got hurt and you ahd the chance to have Sheffield on the Sox you wouldn't take him?

I'd rather have Ross Gload at first and DH Konerko, than have that headcase in the clubhouse.

Besides, he's not a Kenny Williams type of guy, so he would never be acquired.

WizardsofOzzie
11-11-2006, 01:57 AM
True, but Ivan Rodriguez was supposedly a model citizen last year...
Model Citizen my ass
http://espn-att.starwave.com/photo/2006/0813/mlb_pudge_412.jpg

http://photos.freenewmexican.com/2006/08/14/37544_455x1000.jpg

goon
11-11-2006, 02:01 AM
My guess: He'll put up some numbers, and the Tigs will win fewer games than they did last year.


that's the whole arguement broken down in one sentence. sheffield will produce, but it's going to be tough for detroit to replicate what they did last year.

southside rocks
11-11-2006, 08:40 AM
You are telling me if Thome got hurt and you ahd the chance to have Sheffield on the Sox you wouldn't take him?

I am amazed at how many people appear to look ONLY at a player's numbers.

And apparently, whatever a player has done to put up those numbers is okay, as long as the numbers are good.

I'm also really glad that KW -- and most of the other GM's in baseball -- have more intelligence than that, and consider the whole player.

No, if Thome got hurt, the Sox might not necessarily want Sheffield. Why is that so hard to understand?

Oblong
11-11-2006, 09:40 AM
Last year Cleveland probably looked beyond the numbers of Kenny Rogers and decided against a 2 year deal so they signed Jason Johnson instead. Oops.

Dombrowski and Leyland do look beyond the numbers. They think they can make this work with Sheffield. That's good enough for me as a fan. I don't care about the past.

AJ Pierzynski wasn't exactly thought of as a golden boy in the clubhouse, at least based on what his peers have said in the past. That seemed to have turned out ok for the White Sox.

southside rocks
11-11-2006, 10:03 AM
I'm not talking about the AJ Pierzynskis of the game, I'm talking about the Dmitri Youngs.

You do remember Dmitri, don't you? Great numbers, until, well ... that little anger-management problem, that persistent substance-abuse thing ... but hey, his teammates loved him, we were told.

AJ Pierzynski told Brett Tomko to go pound sand up his ass. Sheffield told the whole baseball world to kiss his ass. Big difference.

Don't care about the past? Great! There's this guy named Sammy Sosa, he can put up some really big numbers, and he's available. We'll look for him in a Tigers uniform!

oeo
11-11-2006, 10:21 AM
Last year Cleveland probably looked beyond the numbers of Kenny Rogers and decided against a 2 year deal so they signed Jason Johnson instead. Oops.

Dombrowski and Leyland do look beyond the numbers. They think they can make this work with Sheffield. That's good enough for me as a fan. I don't care about the past.

AJ Pierzynski wasn't exactly thought of as a golden boy in the clubhouse, at least based on what his peers have said in the past. That seemed to have turned out ok for the White Sox.

Peers, as in, Brett Tomko? Unless I'm forgetting someone, he's the only teammate of AJ's that ever complained about him. And it was probably more of his personality than his attitude that was the "problem".

It depends on what the Tigers do, if they can repeat next year, Sheffield will be fine...if they get off to a rough start and are not winning many games...I don't care who the manager is, he's going to start bitching.

fquaye149
11-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Last year Cleveland probably looked beyond the numbers of Kenny Rogers and decided against a 2 year deal so they signed Jason Johnson instead. Oops.

Dombrowski and Leyland do look beyond the numbers. They think they can make this work with Sheffield. That's good enough for me as a fan. I don't care about the past.

AJ Pierzynski wasn't exactly thought of as a golden boy in the clubhouse, at least based on what his peers have said in the past. That seemed to have turned out ok for the White Sox.

Brett Tomko is a ****ing crybaby who was sad his career never lived up to expectations. He has cried and will cry everywhere he goes, and blaming his catcher is the easiest way to do it.

Living in Green Bay for most of my childhood I saw firsthand Sheffield's whining about Milwaukee and dogging it on purpose. I'm not a big "character" guy in baseball, but Sheffield and Sammy Sosa are two guys I would never want on a baseball team I root for.

CLR01
11-11-2006, 11:40 AM
Brett Tomko is a ****ing crybaby who was sad his career never lived up to expectations. He has cried and will cry everywhere he goes, and blaming his catcher is the easiest way to do it.

Living in Green Bay for most of my childhood I saw firsthand Sheffield's whining about Milwaukee and dogging it on purpose. I'm not a big "character" guy in baseball, but Sheffield and Sammy Sosa are two guys I would never want on a baseball team I root for.


But you're forgetting that Leyland is a genius. He'll be able to keep Sheffield in check. :rolleyes:


And maybe Shef can help the cheater hide the pine tar a little better, I'm sorry, iodine.

fquaye149
11-11-2006, 11:49 AM
But you're forgetting that Leyland is a genius. He'll be able to keep Sheffield in check. :rolleyes:


And maybe Shef can help the cheater hide the pine tar a little better, I'm sorry, iodine.

Character assassination!!!

It was clearly a clump of dirt. Or some other dirt-like substance:o:

Oblong
11-11-2006, 11:51 AM
Brett Tomko is a ****ing crybaby who was sad his career never lived up to expectations. He has cried and will cry everywhere he goes, and blaming his catcher is the easiest way to do it.

Living in Green Bay for most of my childhood I saw firsthand Sheffield's whining about Milwaukee and dogging it on purpose. I'm not a big "character" guy in baseball, but Sheffield and Sammy Sosa are two guys I would never want on a baseball team I root for.


I'm not saying they were valid criticisms. Quite the opposite. I'm saying perceptions on clubhouse cancers are usually bunk. Winning creates good chemistry. Not winning can create bad chemistry. Will Sheffield make a 95 win team better? Perhaps. But how many 95 win teams go on to win as many the following year? Not very many. Does that mean the 95 win teams should not try to improve?


What am I supposed to do? Not be a Tiger fan anymore because they signed a guy that apparantly nobody likes?

Yes, maybe Sheffield can help Kenny hide the pine tar better. Then he'll be like every other pitcher in the major leagues.

CLR01
11-11-2006, 11:51 AM
Character assassination!!!

It was clearly a clump of dirt. Or some other dirt-like substance:o:


Well he was rubbing his balls in the bullpen......

fquaye149
11-11-2006, 12:27 PM
I'm not saying they were valid criticisms. Quite the opposite. I'm saying perceptions on clubhouse cancers are usually bunk. Winning creates good chemistry. Not winning can create bad chemistry. Will Sheffield make a 95 win team better? Perhaps. But how many 95 win teams go on to win as many the following year? Not very many. Does that mean the 95 win teams should not try to improve?


What am I supposed to do? Not be a Tiger fan anymore because they signed a guy that apparantly nobody likes?

Yes, maybe Sheffield can help Kenny hide the pine tar better. Then he'll be like every other pitcher in the major leagues.


First Bold Thing: I agree with you: perceptions on clubhouse cancers are usually bunk. In AJ's case it was 100% bunk because the source was Bret Tomko and Tomko is a little bitch. In Sheffield's case it is not bunk since the source is EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD INCLUDING SHEFFIELD HIMSELF

Second Bold Thing: That's a bold statement. Number of players you accuse: ALL OF THEM. Number of players you have even a shred of evidence against: um...Brandon Donnely and Kenny Rogers:?:

fquaye149
11-11-2006, 12:31 PM
I'm not saying they were valid criticisms. Quite the opposite. I'm saying perceptions on clubhouse cancers are usually bunk. Winning creates good chemistry. Not winning can create bad chemistry. Will Sheffield make a 95 win team better? Perhaps. But how many 95 win teams go on to win as many the following year? Not very many. Does that mean the 95 win teams should not try to improve?


What am I supposed to do? Not be a Tiger fan anymore because they signed a guy that apparantly nobody likes?

Yes, maybe Sheffield can help Kenny hide the pine tar better. Then he'll be like every other pitcher in the major leagues.

merry x mas

When Sheffield came up to the parent club, he insinuated that the Milwaukee pitchers did little to protect him when he was hit by pitches, making him less than popular with the hurlers. He originally was a shortstop, but when he was moved to third to accommodate prospect Billy Spiers, Gary, who is an African-American, saw it as a black-white issue, and let the press know in no uncertain terms...He was moved to third base, where he committed 25 errors in 1990, and he was accused of making throwing errors on purpose to hasten his departure from Milwaukee.
from this article (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/78918/the_controversial_career_of_gary_sheffield.html)

another article (http://www.answers.com/topic/gary-sheffield)
Unhappy in Milwaukee, Sheffield was widely criticized for arrogance and unsportsmanlike behavior when he deliberately threw a ball away during a game in the outfield.

Oblong
11-11-2006, 12:58 PM
First Bold Thing: I agree with you: perceptions on clubhouse cancers are usually bunk. In AJ's case it was 100% bunk because the source was Bret Tomko and Tomko is a little bitch. In Sheffield's case it is not bunk since the source is EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD INCLUDING SHEFFIELD HIMSELF

Second Bold Thing: That's a bold statement. Number of players you accuse: ALL OF THEM. Number of players you have even a shred of evidence against: um...Brandon Donnely and Kenny Rogers:?:

I was using hyperbole on the second point.

But I will say there's as much evidence and talk from around the league on Sheffield's issues as there are with the issues of many pitchers using foreign substances on baseballs. So call that a wash.

I know he's had his problems. So does Dombrowski and Leyland and they still wanted him. Are they geniuses and foolproof? Yes, just look at Neifi Perez starting at SS in the playoffs. But I don't think they'd have made this move if they were sure that he wouldn't be a problem.

But from a strictly analytical point I think both teams did well in this transaction. But I think it's premature if the Tigers do not win 95 gams next year to blame it on this deal. There's lots of reasons why it might not happen.

It's moot to discuss him anymore because it's a long time until April. As a fan I'm not bothered by what they did in the past. I have faith in the management that they know what they are doing. Blind faith? Sure, that's what's fun about being a sports fan.

Oblong
11-11-2006, 01:00 PM
merry x mas


from this article (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/78918/the_controversial_career_of_gary_sheffield.html)

another article (http://www.answers.com/topic/gary-sheffield)

and if he pulls any of that crap in Detroit then I'd be all over him. He'd ge the Detroit QB treatment.

TDog
11-11-2006, 01:28 PM
What a class guy.

When I lived in suburban Milwaukee, Sheffield was despised as the guy who admitted to intentionally misplaying balls in the outfiled to escape from the Brewers (who traded him to the Padres for Jose Valentin and others). He played well with the Braves and with the Marlins. The Yankees expected more out of him than they got.

If the trade looks good for the Tigers right now, it's because the Tigers overall look good right now. Adding Tom Seaver to the 1984 White Sox and Greg Maddux to the 2004 Cubs made them look unbeatable to most people, too.

CLR01
11-11-2006, 02:04 PM
Detroit QB



Now there's two words that just don't work together.

Oblong
11-11-2006, 02:44 PM
Now there's two words that just don't work together.


I'm 33. Greatest Lion QB of my lifetime?

goon
11-11-2006, 02:56 PM
I'm 33. Greatest Lion QB of my lifetime?

barry sanders?

SoxSpeed22
11-11-2006, 03:06 PM
I'm 33. Greatest Lion QB of my lifetime?Scott Mitchell? :?:

CLR01
11-11-2006, 03:38 PM
I'm 33. Greatest Lion QB of my lifetime?



Mitchell with Kitna making a case for himself after 8 games. :rolling: :puking:

beckett21
11-11-2006, 04:18 PM
I'm 33. Greatest Lion QB of my lifetime?

Scott Mitchell? :?:

Mitchell with Kitna making a case for himself after 8 games. :rolling: :puking:

Let's not forget Eric Hipple.

The correct answer is probably Erik Kramer. Unfortunately, the same can almost be said of the Bears. :(:


Back on topic, Sheffield is a joke. Enjoy. :redneck

ondafarm
11-11-2006, 05:38 PM
I have no idea of the value of the three pitchers that the Yankees got from the Tigers, but I don't think a great deal of this trade.

Sheffield is not a devastating hitter and I'm not sure how lethal he ever was. At his best as a #3 hitter, but a certain clubhouse cancer and definately on the downside of his career. Plus he just adds to the Tigers right handed dominance.

Brian26
11-11-2006, 06:18 PM
As a GM, I wouldn't want Gary Sheffield anywhere near my team.

Does anyone here remember how he, along with Chipper Jones, absolutely laid down for the Scrubs in the '03 playoffs? I've never seen two guys more ambivalent in losing a series.

Sheffield's made his money in this game, he's got his ring from the '97 Marlins, and he has nothing to prove. Add to that the ****ty attitude, and this is exactly the type of guy I wouldn't want anywhere near my team if I was trying to win a title.

Brian26
11-11-2006, 06:28 PM
Just looked this up on retrosheet. My memory serves me well.

Sheffield's post season numbers of late:

2002 Div Series w/ Atlanta: .063 Avg (1 for 16)
2003 Div Series w/ Atlanta: .143 Avg (2 for 14)
2004 Div Series w/ NYY: .222 Avg (4 for 18)
2005 Div Series w/ NYY: .286 Avg (6 for 21)

He helped his cause in 2005, but over those four years, he went 13 for 69 (.188 Avg). Not exactly the type of numbers you expect from a team leader.

Jjav829
11-11-2006, 06:53 PM
I like the deal from the Yankees perspective. They chose to pick up Sheffield's option when they could have just declined it and let him walk. Then they swung him for 3 prospects, one of which is a pretty highly thought of prospect.

As for the Tigers, well, I won't say it's a bad pickup for them, but one could certainly question whether adding Sheffield was the most effective use of resources. For less money per year, they could have signed J.D. Drew, which would have given them two things they really lacked this past season: a left-handed presence for the middle of their lineup and a guy who will get on base quite a bit. The Tigers only had two players who walked 50 or more times last year (Guillen at 71 and Granderson at 66). And while Drew is a bit more of an injury risk, he's also 7 years younger and would benefit from the occasional time as DH. Of course, they would have had to have "won" the right to sign Drew, whereas Sheffield is already signed, but it still seems like they jumped the gun here. Add in that they had to trade one of their better prospects, and I'm left questioning whether they made the right move.

Yes, they do look better on paper now than they did at the end of the season, but that guarantees nothing as we all definitely learned this past season.

SOXSINCE'70
11-11-2006, 07:06 PM
Yes, they do look better on paper now than they did at the end of the season, but that guarantees nothing as we all definitely learned this past season.

Jim Thome is the perfect example in this situation.
He came to the Sox after the 2005 WS,put up typical
Thome-esque numbers,won comeback player of the year,
helped the Sox to 90 victories,and the team missed the
playoffs thanks to the Twinks' 96 wins and the Tiggers'
95 wins.

The A.L. Central will be no cakewalk for anyone in 2007.
I've said it before and i'll say it yet again:there are 5 teams
in this division who will compete in 2007.Yes,even the Royals:o: ,
if they can get some starting/relief pitching.

1951Campbell
11-11-2006, 07:20 PM
Living in Green Bay for most of my childhood I saw firsthand Sheffield's whining about Milwaukee and dogging it on purpose. I'm not a big "character" guy in baseball, but Sheffield and Sammy Sosa are two guys I would never want on a baseball team I root for.

Oh my God, did Brewers fans hate anyone more than Shef? Yikes.

Norberto7
11-11-2006, 11:18 PM
Stats for Sheffield's last full season (2005), in 584 at-bats:

.291/34/123

Stats for Thames last year, projected to the same amount of at-bats:

.256/44/100

I know it's not completely fair to compare like this, but if you consider Thames will be 30 next year and should probably still be on the upward arc of his career trajectory, while Sheffield will be 39 on on the downward side, those numbers would theoretically slide closer together. Just not sure the difference is worth the cost &/or risk.

lakeviewsoxfan
11-12-2006, 12:04 AM
2 year extension worth 28 Million. 14 million a year Sheffield isnt worth anything near 14 mil a year

JB98
11-12-2006, 01:45 AM
Last year Cleveland probably looked beyond the numbers of Kenny Rogers and decided against a 2 year deal so they signed Jason Johnson instead. Oops.

Dombrowski and Leyland do look beyond the numbers. They think they can make this work with Sheffield. That's good enough for me as a fan. I don't care about the past.

AJ Pierzynski wasn't exactly thought of as a golden boy in the clubhouse, at least based on what his peers have said in the past. That seemed to have turned out ok for the White Sox.

Bad comparison. Next time AJ intentionally commits a throwing error in an effort to get himself traded, or accuses the organization he plays for of racism, or mails it in during the playoffs, give me a call.

AJ is hated by opponents because he'll do whatever it takes to win. Sheffield is hated by everyone because he plays for himself and for money. He cares not a wit about his teammates.

SOXSINCE'70
11-12-2006, 10:22 AM
Sheffield is hated by everyone because he plays for himself and for money. He cares not a wit about his teammates.

We have a winner!!:yup: :yup:

Lip Man 1
11-12-2006, 12:42 PM
Speaking of the Yanks they appear to be ready to deal Jarrod Wright to the O's for a young relief pitcher. New York apparently is clearing out salary space for something.

Lip

Sox Fan 35
11-12-2006, 12:55 PM
Speaking of the Yanks they appear to be ready to deal Jarrod Wright to the O's for a young relief pitcher. New York apparently is clearing out salary space for something.

Lip

Matsuzaka?

Jjav829
11-12-2006, 01:00 PM
Speaking of the Yanks they appear to be ready to deal Jarrod Wright to the O's for a young relief pitcher. New York apparently is clearing out salary space for something.

Lip

The Yankees are having a hell of an offseason already. This would be their 2nd time in 3 days where the Yankees choose to pick up an option/not buy out a contract and then traded the player for young talent.

I have no idea what the Orioles are thinking. They could have just waited for the Yankees to buy out Wright and then signed him in free agency.

maurice
11-13-2006, 02:04 PM
AJ - will do anything to win, loved by his co-workers in Minnesota, traded for great prospects because he was blocking the #1 pick in the draft, still loved by the guys in Minnesota, loved by the guys in Chicago, hated by Brent Tomko & opposing teams & the fans of opposing teams.

Shef - chronic troublemaker, puts his personal interests ahead of winning games, played for 7 different teams, never played more than 3 full seasons for any 1 team, only played 39 games in 2006, born in 1968, OPS in steady decline, BALCO, etc.

This is a calculated risk with serious boom or bust potential. Best case scenario for the Tigers: he has a couple of decent years (on par with Ordonez) before going to crap or alienating his team (again). More likely scenario: he takes part in a roid-rage battle royal with his new roid-friendly teammates, goes on the DL for the better part of two years, and then quietly retires.

TDog
11-13-2006, 03:45 PM
...
This is a calculated risk with serious boom or bust potential. Best case scenario for the Tigers: he has a couple of decent years (on par with Ordonez) before going to crap or alienating his team (again). More likely scenario: he takes part in a roid-rage battle royal with his new roid-friendly teammates, goes on the DL for the better part of two years, and then quietly retires.

I think it's more gamble than calculated risk.

It felt last season like the Yankees made a mistake by signing Sheffield. It now seems they found a team that allowed them to salvage something. It's certainly a gamble for the Tigers who would benefit if Sheffield puts up big numbers at the right times. But it's hard to believe any team so close to winning it all in 2005 is willing to gamble with committing that sort of money to Sheffield when even the Yankees have made it clear his ride was over.

What makes this deal particularly curious is what we read and heard about the Tigers success last season. They were, some believed, a team with a core brought together through the adversity of enduring one of the worst seasons of all time. That is, people credited team chemistry for much of the success. How does anyone who believes in chemistry believe mixing in Sheffield will make the Tigers a more successful team?

chisoxmike
11-13-2006, 03:47 PM
As a GM, I wouldn't want Gary Sheffield anywhere near my team.

Does anyone here remember how he, along with Chipper Jones, absolutely laid down for the Scrubs in the '03 playoffs? I've never seen two guys more ambivalent in losing a series.

Sheffield's made his money in this game, he's got his ring from the '97 Marlins, and he has nothing to prove. Add to that the ****ty attitude, and this is exactly the type of guy I wouldn't want anywhere near my team if I was trying to win a title.

That's why I'm glad he's on the Tigers!

:supernana:

brewcrew/chisox
11-13-2006, 06:49 PM
I used to like Sheffield back in the day, but over the last 5 years I have thought that he has turned into a ****head. This just gives me another reason to hate him.:cool:

He was always a ****head. He'd purposely throw balls into the stands when he played for the Brewers so the team would trade him.

Historically, he has been highly critical of owners, managers, general managers, groundskeepers, teammates, fans, the media and his former agent- opting to negotiate his most recent contract for himself.

He has now been traded 5 times.

Yeah, he's a ****head.

INSox56
11-14-2006, 11:14 AM
and his former agent- opting to negotiate his most recent contract for himself.


I wouldn't call dumping your agent a jerk move, really...most of them deserve it. But if I remember right, our own JD doesn't even have an agent...