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guillen4life13
11-09-2006, 09:25 PM
Ray Durham is available this offseason. I know I'm really playing armchair GM here, but is there bad blood between him and the Sox? If Iguchi is up to moving back to SS (where he played the majority of his career in Japan), Ray would be an incredible offensive upgrade over Uribe. And according to Phil Rogers, Ray could be a bargain given the market. I think it's worth a shot to talk to Iguchi about maybe moving to short if his health allows it, and talk to Ray about coming back to the Sox. He will be 35 next year, which is my biggest concern.

Here is his line for the last two years with SF.

Year BA OBP HR RBI
2005 .290 .356 12 62
2006 .293 .360 26 93


His days of stealing bases on a regular basis are likely done, but I think it would be reasonable to expect him to nab at least 10 per year.

Rogers' Article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=2654092



Quote: " With Luis Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4576), Moises Alou (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4517), Ray Durham (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5323), Mark Loretta (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5504), Kenny Lofton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4789) and Sean Casey (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5930) on the market, you shouldn't have to break the bank to sign some of the most experienced players available, not this time around, anyway. But matched with the right teams -- especially the right AL teams -- any of these guys, and several others in the 30-plus set, could provide a big impact. Look at what Casey did for the Detroit Tigers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=det) in September and October."


The way I see it is that this is a very different White Sox team than the one Ray left in 2002, with the only common players being Buehrle, Konerko and Garland (wow!) unless Sandy comes back for another year. He presents a more rounded player who can provide some power and speed, has a respectable OBP, isn't a horrible defender, and should be getting to the point in his career where his time is limited, and he still doesn't have a ring. Here's a roster I'd like to see:

LF Crawford
SS Iguchi
2B Durham
RF Dye
1B Konerko
DH Thome
3B Crede
C Pierzynski
CF Anderson


I know a lot of you are going to think this is really stupid, but Ray can be dangerous, and if the last two years have any meaning, he could be a great addition to the lineup. Of course, I'd rather have bullpen and leadoff help first, but if the price is right, lets get Ray.

Brian26
11-09-2006, 09:29 PM
Juan Uribe showed more heart and talent in the 2005 postseason than Ray Durham showed in his entire seven and a half years in Chicago. Durham is a fire hydrant on defense, and as far as offense goes, he's the biggest garbage-time player I've ever seen. Add to all of this the fact that he'll probably be on the DL by Cinco de Mayo. Thanks for the memories, but no thanks.

JB98
11-09-2006, 09:33 PM
Putting Durham at second and moving Iguchi to shortstop would kill our defense. I wouldn't consider it. Not even for one second.

fusillirob1983
11-09-2006, 09:33 PM
Didn't Iguchi have an injury in Japan that limited his throwing? Is that why he moved to 2B? I thought this might've been discussed back when the Sox signed him.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-09-2006, 09:36 PM
Juan Uribe showed more heart and talent in the 2005 postseason than Ray Durham showed in his entire seven and a half years in Chicago. Durham is a fire hydrant on defense, and as far as offense goes, he's the biggest garbage-time player I've ever seen. Add to all of this the fact that he'll probably be on the DL by Cinco de Mayo. Thanks for the memories, but no thanks.


Ya right. I wouldnt mind getting Ray back at all. In fact, i think it would be wise to get rid of "bone-head" Uribe (looks on other team fan forums, they love Uribe), because as far as i see it, 2005 was just magical, thats it. Tell him and his brother Elpedio to move somewhere else, and bring home Ray Ray.:cool:

Brian26
11-09-2006, 09:39 PM
Ya right. I wouldnt mind getting Ray back at all. In fact, i think it would be wise to get rid of "bone-head" Uribe (looks on other team fan forums, they love Uribe), because as far as i see it, 2005 was just magical, thats it. Tell him and his brother Elpedio to move somewhere else, and bring home Ray Ray.:cool:

You're describing the wrong guy as "bone-head."

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-09-2006, 09:41 PM
You're describing the wrong guy as "bone-head."

Tell me what Uribe did to help our team this year besides act like a hot shot and make bone-head errors, as well as having an ice cold bat and low obp

Brian26
11-09-2006, 09:43 PM
Tell me what Uribe did to help are team this year besides act like a hot shot and make bone-head errors, as well as having an ice cold bat and low obp

are=our

In an IQ test, I bet Uribe could score better than Ray Durham and D'Angelo Jimenez combined.

Daver
11-09-2006, 09:46 PM
I have no desire in seeing WTP Durham back in a Sox uniform.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-09-2006, 09:47 PM
are=our

In an IQ test, I bet Uribe could score better than Ray Durham and D'Angelo Jimenez combined.

Who cares how smart they are! As long as they can play ball. When i refer to bonehead, i refer to pegging peope on an easy 2x play ball from 2b to 1b. This can also go side-on-side with dropping errorless balls in CENTER FIELD!!!! YA, thats right, i said CF!

lakeviewsoxfan
11-09-2006, 09:48 PM
Can I get a Hell no:ray

Brian26
11-09-2006, 09:50 PM
Who cares how smart they are! As long as they can play ball. When i refer to bonehead, i refer to pegging peope on an easy 2x play ball from 2b to 1b. This can also go side-on-side with dropping errorless balls in CENTER FIELD!!!! YA, thats right, i said CF!

I'm talking about baseball smarts, and it was widely known that Ray Durham was one of the dimmest lights to come down the lane in many years.

Ironic that you mention CF since one of the reasons Durham was shipped out of here was his lack of desire to learn the position at the request of the Sox front office....then the dumbass ended up playing CF with the A's for the last half of '02 anyway.

TaylorStSox
11-09-2006, 09:51 PM
Ray Durham is the slowest fast guy I've ever seen. I've never seen a player so athletic that had such little range. It's really uncanny.

Anyway, how is Uribe "bone headed?" Everyone drops a couple pop ups every now and then. It's not like he throws to the wrong base or anything. Most of his misplays were on throws.

infohawk
11-09-2006, 09:51 PM
Didn't Iguchi have an injury in Japan that limited his throwing? Is that why he moved to 2B? I thought this might've been discussed back when the Sox signed him.
Yes he did. He moved from shortstop to second base for arm reasons. He's not going to play short.

Brian26
11-09-2006, 09:53 PM
Yes he did. He moved from shortstop to second base for arm reasons. He's not going to play short.

Can you imagine a middle infield of Iguchi at SS and Durham at 2b? Good grief.

Ol' No. 2
11-09-2006, 09:53 PM
Ray Durham is available this offseason. I know I'm really playing armchair GM here, but is there bad blood between him and the Sox? If Iguchi is up to moving back to SS (where he played the majority of his career in Japan), Ray would be an incredible offensive upgrade over Uribe. And according to Phil Rogers, Ray could be a bargain given the market. I think it's worth a shot to talk to Iguchi about maybe moving to short if his health allows it, and talk to Ray about coming back to the Sox. He will be 35 next year, which is my biggest concern.

Here is his line for the last two years with SF.

Year BA OBP HR RBI
2005 .290 .356 12 62
2006 .293 .360 26 93


His days of stealing bases on a regular basis are likely done, but I think it would be reasonable to expect him to nab at least 10 per year.

Rogers' Article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=2654092



Quote: " With Luis Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4576), Moises Alou (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4517), Ray Durham (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5323), Mark Loretta (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5504), Kenny Lofton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4789) and Sean Casey (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5930) on the market, you shouldn't have to break the bank to sign some of the most experienced players available, not this time around, anyway. But matched with the right teams -- especially the right AL teams -- any of these guys, and several others in the 30-plus set, could provide a big impact. Look at what Casey did for the Detroit Tigers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=det) in September and October."


The way I see it is that this is a very different White Sox team than the one Ray left in 2002, with the only common players being Buehrle, Konerko and Garland (wow!) unless Sandy comes back for another year. He presents a more rounded player who can provide some power and speed, has a respectable OBP, isn't a horrible defender, and should be getting to the point in his career where his time is limited, and he still doesn't have a ring. Here's a roster I'd like to see:

LF Crawford
SS Iguchi
2B Durham
RF Dye
1B Konerko
DH Thome
3B Crede
C Pierzynski
CF Anderson


I know a lot of you are going to think this is really stupid, but Ray can be dangerous, and if the last two years have any meaning, he could be a great addition to the lineup. Of course, I'd rather have bullpen and leadoff help first, but if the price is right, lets get Ray.Well, you got one thing right.

samram
11-09-2006, 10:03 PM
Ray Durham is the slowest fast guy I've ever seen. I've never seen a player so athletic that had such little range. It's really uncanny.

Anyway, how is Uribe "bone headed?" Everyone drops a couple pop ups every now and then. It's not like he throws to the wrong base or anything. Most of his misplays were on throws.

I'll take Pods in that contest.

Also, strange that a guy would have a career year in San Francisco at the age of 34.

Kub_Killer_15
11-09-2006, 10:09 PM
I would rather keep Uribes cannon then get Durhams dead arm.

oeo
11-09-2006, 10:10 PM
I'm confused as to why 1) you want the guy and 2) he's batting #3, ahead of Dye, Thome, and Konerko.

chisoxmike
11-09-2006, 10:18 PM
No.

Next.

TaylorStSox
11-09-2006, 10:21 PM
I'll take Pods in that contest.

Also, strange that a guy would have a career year in San Francisco at the age of 34.



Yeah, both guys look like they're running through mud, on defense. I'll see your Pods and raise you a Jeter.

TheOldRoman
11-09-2006, 10:42 PM
Juan Uribe showed more heart and talent in the 2005 postseason than Ray Durham showed in his entire seven and a half years in Chicago. Durham is a fire hydrant on defense, and as far as offense goes, he's the biggest garbage-time player I've ever seen. Add to all of this the fact that he'll probably be on the DL by Cinco de Mayo. Thanks for the memories, but no thanks.
:caballo
"Have we met?"

BTW, this thread blows. Durham sucks, and should have no place on this team. Iguchi doesn't have the arm or the range to play SS. If we replace Uribe, we will get a comparable defensive shortstop. SS is too important a defensive position for a team to throw crap the likes of Jeter out there. No matter what, we will have a good defensive SS next year, and that is the right move. Also, Durham would be a huge downgrade from Iguchi at 2nd. We would be taking huge downgrades at two defensive positions only to sign a 35 year old who is coming off a career year playing in Steroid City, USA? This idea is beyong horrible.

Domeshot17
11-09-2006, 10:50 PM
The one thing I wonder...

In 2 years when we do have a new SS for sure, how bad people will be putting Juan Uribe down. Hes kind of like the cousin everyone has that is always in jail or getting in trouble or something, You have to defend him, because hes part of your family, but you know he sucks at life. Thats how I kind of look at Juan Uribe. He may be the worst offensive player in baseball, no clue how to hit or even what situation he is ever hitting in, he has a good arm but hes wild and takes a lot of plays off. We defend him, but we will be bashing him like we do Ray and other EX Sox players soon enough.

TaylorStSox
11-09-2006, 11:23 PM
The one thing I wonder...

In 2 years when we do have a new SS for sure, how bad people will be putting Juan Uribe down. Hes kind of like the cousin everyone has that is always in jail or getting in trouble or something, You have to defend him, because hes part of your family, but you know he sucks at life. Thats how I kind of look at Juan Uribe. He may be the worst offensive player in baseball, no clue how to hit or even what situation he is ever hitting in, he has a good arm but hes wild and takes a lot of plays off. We defend him, but we will be bashing him like we do Ray and other EX Sox players soon enough.


I really don't understand this. He's good for 20 homers and 70 RBI's out of the 8,9 hole. He's one of the few guys on the team that can get down a bunt and is good at getting guys in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Sure, he doesn't walk, but he's not even the worst offensive player on the team, let alone all of baseball. Really, he's Manos with defense. That's not a problem IMO.

JB98
11-09-2006, 11:32 PM
Can you imagine a middle infield of Iguchi at SS and Durham at 2b? Good grief.

I can imagine it. If it were to come to pass, we would be a fourth-place team. We would go from having an above-average DP combination to the worst DP combination in the league. Gotta have strong defense up the middle.

ilsox7
11-09-2006, 11:46 PM
Juan Uribe showed more heart and talent in the 2005 postseason than Ray Durham showed in his entire seven and a half years in Chicago. Durham is a fire hydrant on defense, and as far as offense goes, he's the biggest garbage-time player I've ever seen. Add to all of this the fact that he'll probably be on the DL by Cinco de Mayo. Thanks for the memories, but no thanks.

In theory, this post should have ended the "discusion" on this topic. But this is WSI after all...

TDog
11-10-2006, 12:50 AM
Reasons the White Sox were willing to part with Durham have not changed.

oeo
11-10-2006, 01:07 AM
The one thing I wonder...

In 2 years when we do have a new SS for sure, how bad people will be putting Juan Uribe down. Hes kind of like the cousin everyone has that is always in jail or getting in trouble or something, You have to defend him, because hes part of your family, but you know he sucks at life. Thats how I kind of look at Juan Uribe. He may be the worst offensive player in baseball, no clue how to hit or even what situation he is ever hitting in, he has a good arm but hes wild and takes a lot of plays off. We defend him, but we will be bashing him like we do Ray and other EX Sox players soon enough.

A shortstop that should have two Gold Gloves now, who gives us a lot of power and RBI's from the bottom of the order?

And I'll never forget this...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/ktlb355/Juan_Uribe_catch_angle.jpg

jortafan
11-10-2006, 01:52 AM
Can you imagine a middle infield of Iguchi at SS and Durham at 2b? Good grief.

It sounds almost as bad as the old days of Jorge Orta at 2B and Alan Bannister at SS.

Let's hope this idea dies here and NEVER gets taken seriously by the White Sox front office.

spiffie
11-10-2006, 02:05 AM
First let me say I will gladly pass on Durham. Unless there's a new rule in MLB that players can use Rascal Scooters on the field.

That said...the Uribe question. There was no everyday player in the AL last year who made outs with greater regularity than Juan Uribe. Not Brian Anderson, not any guy with Kansas City, not the crappiest Tampa Bay Devil Ray. Of every single player in all of the American League, no one crapped the bed more often than Juan Uribe.

His defense in 2006 was not nearly as solid as in 2005, which is a bad thing when you are the very bottom of the list offensively. Uribe 2005 was such a defensive force that one could possibly have forgiven his 2006 offense if the defense was of the same caliber. But in 2006 there were far more plays that were not executed by Juan than in 2005.

But wait...Juan made an awesome play in 2005!!!! This is true. Anyone want to weigh in on this?

:dustin:

"Awesome! If we're ignoring anything that happened in 2006, I still get to be closer!"

:pollite:

"And I am still employed by the White Sox! I like this game! Anyone else?"

:blum:

"I should be starting! I hit a HR in the World Series! Who can top that?"

:weewillie

"Hell, I scored the winning run in the title clincher! Where's Willie's job at? Who else wants in on this?"

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/7255.jpg

"Sound the gong~! It's SHINGO TIME! Who else is with us? It's 2005 all over again!"

:rowand

"You know you want me back....you missed me all year long."

oeo
11-10-2006, 11:14 AM
First let me say I will gladly pass on Durham. Unless there's a new rule in MLB that players can use Rascal Scooters on the field.

That said...the Uribe question. There was no everyday player in the AL last year who made outs with greater regularity than Juan Uribe. Not Brian Anderson, not any guy with Kansas City, not the crappiest Tampa Bay Devil Ray. Of every single player in all of the American League, no one crapped the bed more often than Juan Uribe.

His defense in 2006 was not nearly as solid as in 2005, which is a bad thing when you are the very bottom of the list offensively. Uribe 2005 was such a defensive force that one could possibly have forgiven his 2006 offense if the defense was of the same caliber. But in 2006 there were far more plays that were not executed by Juan than in 2005.

But wait...Juan made an awesome play in 2005!!!! This is true. Anyone want to weigh in on this?

He said we would be bashing him. I won't ever bash the guy. The only guy from your little "list" that I would bash would be Politte because he ****ed up way too many games with his meatball in 2006. Thank you for having an out-of-your-mind year in 2005, but you suck. Uribe and all those other guys are different, though (I think Politte was around about 2 months too long and his hatred grew).

palehozenychicty
11-10-2006, 12:35 PM
Nee.

Domeshot17
11-10-2006, 09:24 PM
I guess I just look at what Uribe has done over his career and not a post season.

Out of the 8 or 9 hole, I would rather have a guy who can hit 270-280 with a 330 OBP then a guy who swings as hard as he can 600 times a year and runs into 17 of them. Uribe is a terrible hitter. Hes basically Russel Branyan with a better arm and less pop. He made a freaking fantastic catch in 2005. But he still doesnt get a free pass for taking the 2006 season off.

Now if he comes back in 07, plays HARD, hits 260, remembers how to throw the ball to first and hustles on the bases, I will be his biggest fan. But I think he really defined our 2006 season, complacent.

sullythered
11-10-2006, 09:57 PM
Can you imagine a middle infield of Iguchi at SS and Durham at 2b? Good grief.
No, and I don't want to. Ugh.:(:

FarWestChicago
11-10-2006, 10:47 PM
Ray Durham is available this offseason. I know I'm really playing armchair GM here, but is there bad blood between him and the Sox? If Iguchi is up to moving back to SS (where he played the majority of his career in Japan), Ray would be an incredible offensive upgrade over Uribe. And according to Phil Rogers, Ray could be a bargain given the market. I think it's worth a shot to talk to Iguchi about maybe moving to short if his health allows it, and talk to Ray about coming back to the Sox. He will be 35 next year, which is my biggest concern.**** it. The hell with decorum and rules. You're a ****ing lunatic. You want The Fire Hydrant missing every ball not hit right at his lazy ass flying out to the warning track, be my guest. But, not on our Sox. Get a brain. Gawd! :redneck

PS Some of us have been lobbying for bannings based on sheer stupidity, astonishing mindless crap. This may be a test case.

SOXSINCE'70
11-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Ray Ray?? 2 words:
NO,NO!!

The Sox infield defense would be weakened by this
acquisition, as some have pointed out before me.
Durham was great at making the inpossible play possible,
but the minute you hit a simple grounder to second,it either
went under his glove or off his glove.Keep Iguchi at second.
Please.For my blood pressure and cholesterol's sake!!
(Long Sox losing streaks drive me to major fast food binges).

hose
11-11-2006, 11:30 AM
**** it. The hell with decorum and rules. You're a ****ing lunatic. You want The Fire Hydrant missing every ball not hit right at his lazy ass flying out to the warning track, be my guest. But, not on our Sox. Get a brain. Gawd! :redneck

PS Some of us have been lobbying for bannings based on sheer stupidity, astonishing mindless crap. This may be a test case.



That has to be one of my WSI favorite lines ...."The Fire Hydrant"

Ol' No. 2
11-11-2006, 10:15 PM
**** it. The hell with decorum and rules. You're a ****ing lunatic. You want The Fire Hydrant missing every ball not hit right at his lazy ass flying out to the warning track, be my guest. But, not on our Sox. Get a brain. Gawd! :redneck

PS Some of us have been lobbying for bannings based on sheer stupidity, astonishing mindless crap. This may be a test case.The sad thing is, this isn't even the dumbest idea that's been floated here this fall.

Sox Fan 35
11-11-2006, 11:03 PM
The sad thing is, this isn't even the dumbest idea that's been floated here this fall.

Really? I can't think of many that would be worse than this.:o:

vegyrex
11-12-2006, 01:57 PM
While I liked Ray when he was here I'd rather not go back to the past.