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View Full Version : Razor Shines Fired, Brian Anderson Loses 20 Pounds


WhiteSoxFan84
11-03-2006, 03:38 AM
Promoted to third-base coach of the White Sox just last week, Razor Shines has been fired as manager of La Guaira of the Venezuelan Winter League.

Outfielder Brian Anderson also has returned to the United States after losing 20 pounds with a stomach ailment.

Linkster (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-061102sox,1,4444079.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Grzegorz
11-03-2006, 04:41 AM
About Razor Shines I could really give a damn, but about BA this is terrible news.

Hopefully he can get healthy and get ready for spring training.

Would BA be eligible for an Arizona Fall League roster is he recuperates in a reasonable timeframe?

I'd really hate to incident hold BA back; as long as BA's attitude is team orientated I am confident in the fact that KW will stand by him.

Erik The Red
11-03-2006, 08:17 AM
BA drank the water. :redface:

caulfield12
11-03-2006, 08:30 AM
Also noted, Haeger never showed up and Logan had to leave with an injury problem. Not good. Logan was probably the favorite to take Cotts' spot coming into ST.

This might force KW to go out and get a veteran.

And Anderson's future is even cloudier than it was before. It's going to be hard to trade him, but you certainly can't say it's his job to lose anymore.

Gammons Peter
11-03-2006, 08:53 AM
Well, Ozzie said B.A. needed to decide if his game was speed or power. I guess we now have an answer.

itsnotrequired
11-03-2006, 09:10 AM
Also noted, Haeger never showed up and Logan had to leave with an injury problem. Not good. Logan was probably the favorite to take Cotts' spot coming into ST.

This might force KW to go out and get a veteran.

And Anderson's future is even cloudier than it was before. It's going to be hard to trade him, but you certainly can't say it's his job to lose anymore.

Haeger never showed up? What the hell?

:?:

chaerulez
11-03-2006, 09:15 AM
If Haeger didn't show up, I don't think it's a big deal. Teams can't make players play winter ball. I guess now BA needs to decide if he's going to use his new weight to become a speed guy and try and be a #1 or #2 hitter or start eating a lot of food in hopes he can still be a #5 or #6 guy. I wonder if his Shines thing will affect his position on the Sox.

Myrtle72
11-03-2006, 09:16 AM
Gee, that article was so negative.

I like how in the end they just kinda plop this in there:

In other Sox news, third baseman Joe Crede was not among the Gold Glove winners when the awards were announced Thursday, despite being pushed for the defensive honor by Guillen.

thegooch
11-03-2006, 09:17 AM
BA drank the water. :redface:

:smile: :smile:

Ha. he got a bad case of Montezuma's revenge.

Seriously though, that is horrible news on BA.

tebman
11-03-2006, 09:18 AM
Also noted, Haeger never showed up and Logan had to leave with an injury problem. Not good. Logan was probably the favorite to take Cotts' spot coming into ST.

This might force KW to go out and get a veteran.

And Anderson's future is even cloudier than it was before. It's going to be hard to trade him, but you certainly can't say it's his job to lose anymore.
This whole thing sounds very weird. How does a manager from a recent World Series winning organization get fired after 14 games? And I can't imagine Haeger just blew it off and didn't show up. BA losing 20 pounds from illness sounds scary, and what happened to Logan?

What's going on in Venezuela? Everybody given bad-luck pills at the border?

ondafarm
11-03-2006, 09:20 AM
Well, this is bad news for BA, I'm sure Razor will be fine. I don't think van Dyck knows one thing about baseball.

itsnotrequired
11-03-2006, 09:22 AM
Well, this is bad news for BA, I'm sure Razor will be fine. I don't think van Dyck knows one thing about baseball.

Agreed. It isn't like he got fired for incompetence.

Huisj
11-03-2006, 09:31 AM
Didn't Mark Johnson (the catcher) have some similar sort of offseason illness at winter ball one year where he got real sick and lost a ton of weight?

Also, it seems like a stretch to think that Anderson losing weight due to an illness could make him into a little speedy guy. Maybe losing weight through a strict diet and lots of aerobic working out could do that a little bit, but losing weight because of stomach problems probably doesn't have quite the same effect.

Logan the frontrunner to take Cotts' place? I think Cotts is the frontrunner to take Cotts' place.

caulfield12
11-03-2006, 09:31 AM
My guess is that the owners wanted better results (winning more games on the field) than they were getting.

KW basically said he understood the situation but wasn't going to comment on it publicly. I don't think it will have an adverse affect at all, if anything, Razor probably refused to give in to some meddling and new-to-baseball owners (who all think they should manage, like Ted Turner or Daniel Snyder or Loria) and he decided to take a stand on principle.

I'm sure it didn't help that some of their players, like Haeger not showing up...Anderson's health...Logan getting injured and Tracey not being reliable have caused the ownership group to question the value of what he was bringing to the table.

OTOH, I'm surprised with all of OG's "influence" in Venezuela that they couldn't repair the situation before it came to an impasse so quickly...after only two weeks of play or so.

The problem with the minors and Winter Ball is that the former values development (with winning being secondary) and the opposite is true of the Puerto Rican and Venezuelan Winter Leagues....win first, develop players for the majors second. Remember Borchard getting axed when he was playing in Mexico?

They also noted the problems weren't with Sweeney or Fields.

Response to prior post: sure, if Cotts gets 2-3 MPH back on his fastball, learns how to differentiate his fastball from his curve and slider, and he pitches like he did from April 2005 through mid 2006 instead of 2004 or the second half of last season.

Logan showed much better life on his pitches late in the season, although neither one of them inspired great amounts of confidence. Logan, at least, had the excuse of making a huge jump from A ball. This was Cotts' third full season in the big leagues.

veeter
11-03-2006, 09:37 AM
This kind of stuff is so irritating because noone, especially Dave VanDyke, know the whole story. But he'll go ahead and write an article making the Sox look like idiots. I HATE, HATE, HATE the off-season.

Steelrod
11-03-2006, 09:37 AM
I would guess that they wanted him in the states for orginational meetings and winter meetings! Can't be in two places at the same time.

caulfield12
11-03-2006, 11:42 AM
That's the end result (being able to attend the meetings) but he was definitely fired by La Guiara, and it wasn't expected by anyone. Something like this is very rare. Might have been a personality conflict....it happens in all employment situations, sports or not.

They didn't want him to come back though...they wanted him to be able to look out for their players on the team, especially Sweeney, Anderson and Fields.

soxtalker
11-03-2006, 11:50 AM
Gee, that article was so negative.



This kind of stuff is so irritating because noone, especially Dave VanDyke, know the whole story. But he'll go ahead and write an article making the Sox look like idiots. I HATE, HATE, HATE the off-season.

I'm missing something here. Why is it so bad that Van Dyke wrote the article? And how was it so negative? It's not terribly good news, but I think that a lot of us would like to hear about it -- even if we don't have the full story right now. I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I really don't understand the objections.

JB98
11-03-2006, 11:57 AM
If Haeger didn't show up, I don't think it's a big deal. Teams can't make players play winter ball. I guess now BA needs to decide if he's going to use his new weight to become a speed guy and try and be a #1 or #2 hitter or start eating a lot of food in hopes he can still be a #5 or #6 guy. I wonder if his Shines thing will affect his position on the Sox.

No, there is no chance this Shines thing will affect his position on the Sox. Shines is being rewarded with a big-league job because of his good work as a manager in the Sox minor-league system. All that isn't going to be erased because of 15 games in Venezuela.

itsnotrequired
11-03-2006, 12:02 PM
No, there is no chance this Shines thing will affect his position on the Sox. Shines is being rewarded with a big-league job because of his good work as a manager in the Sox minor-league system. All that isn't going to be erased because of 15 games in Venezuela.

Exactly. This is an issue to some dude in Venezuela having swollen-head syndrome.

NardiWasHere
11-03-2006, 12:02 PM
I'm missing something here. Why is it so bad that Van Dyke wrote the article? And how was it so negative? It's not terribly good news, but I think that a lot of us would like to hear about it -- even if we don't have the full story right now. I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I really don't understand the objections.

How dare reporters report the news! Bastards!

Lip Man 1
11-03-2006, 12:18 PM
To me the more interesting (and important) news was about Anderson.

He could have an internal illness or something else may be going on. That could have an impact in ways we can't imagine yet....an impact on his health and availability this season, or as a piece of a trade or even his status with the Sox if as speculated, something may be going on behind the scenes between him and Ozzie.

Just a gut feeling but I think he's going to be traded. I hope not. Even at 'worst' he'd be a damn fine 4th outfielder who can come in for defensive purposes late in the game.

We'll see.

Lip

Lip Man 1
11-03-2006, 12:22 PM
Caulfield:

I don't think Boone Logan was the favorite for anything.

Remember the story a few weeks ago stating that Ozzie wasn't impressed with any of the kids with the possible exception of Haegar.

To call Logan the 'favorite' after his dismal 2006 is stretching things don't you think?

And there's more going on with Logan then was previously known. A Sox executive talks about it in this story:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/122498,CST-SPT-sox03.article

Lip

Oldschoolsoxguy
11-03-2006, 12:28 PM
That's just lovely,if true.How that guy could actually have a big league attitude is stunning.Maybe he thinks that spring training games and regular season games are the same thing.

CLR01
11-03-2006, 01:32 PM
"**** that Arizonian ****. I tried so hard to like him and he goes and disrespects me and my country by getting sick and leaving. **** that piece of ****."


:ozzie



"Ahhhhhh....Anderson's got a stomach........"

:wanne

SABRSox
11-03-2006, 01:39 PM
That article brought up Eric Gagne's name. Why?

DaleJRFan
11-03-2006, 01:39 PM
Exactly. This is an issue to some dude in Venezuela having swollen-head syndrome.


If you visit the team's message board and translate the posts, all of the fans wanted Razor to be fired weeks ago. As to why I can't tell.. but I doubt that it was something Razor Shines didn't see coming.

oeo
11-03-2006, 01:45 PM
That's just lovely,if true.How that guy could actually have a big league attitude is stunning.Maybe he thinks that spring training games and regular season games are the same thing.

I'm confused about that as well. The guy hasn't proven anything, besides that he's not a big league pitcher.

DaleJRFan
11-03-2006, 01:49 PM
That article brought up Eric Gagne's name. Why?


I noticed the same thing. I think he is an interesting name to bring up. Could the Sox sign him for a cheap deal with a bunch of performance-based encentives? Why not?? If he gets hurt again, his contract is cheap. If he performs, the Sox benefit and he gets paid.

I usually read Cowley articles and shake my head afterwards, but this one raises a few good points. Specifically, can the Sox afford Justin Speier? Its not as if they can't afford a $3 or $4 million dollar deal for a top-end reliever. The problem is that KW has a history of not wanting to give older players a third year on their contract. Speier will be highly coveted this offseason and more than a handful of teams will be bidding against KW for his services. Will KW give him a 3rd year on the deal? Will he go up from a 3 year, 9 million dollar deal and offer 4 million over two?? Plus, Speier has spent some time on the DL the past few seasons and is 33.

JD, El Duque and Hermanson were the big signings in 05. They were all older signings who received 2 year deals with options. We all remember what happened with Omar Vizquel and the 3rd year on the deal. Will Speier go for a 2 year deal with an option if the first and second year money is higher than if he was to sign a 3 year deal?

thomas35forever
11-03-2006, 02:10 PM
This BA thing is only temporary, isn't it?

DaleJRFan
11-03-2006, 02:46 PM
This BA thing is only temporary, isn't it?

Once the sickness subsides, he should gain the weight back quickly. Its a matter of gaining strength back. NASCAR drivers lose 8-10 lbs a race during the summer months when it gets to 120-135 degrees in the cars. But, they don't have to swing a bat, throw a ball or run the bases. BA needs to build his strength back up... AFTER he gets better.

caulfield12
11-03-2006, 02:54 PM
I don't think he's going to shell out the kind of money a guy like Walker (another one-year wonder?) or Speier will get.

Which leads to the same old issue that was a constant debate this past season...if he's not going to spend top dollar for the 4-6th spots in the bullpen, who takes those spots?

Obviously, bringing 12 FA lefties to camp didn't work out so well. It would have been better to have one Myers over all those guys, even though Lopez did get us Riske.

I'm starting to think they will have to trade two starters, take a big salary on in return (like a Zito or Willis) and use the rest of the money in LF and bullpen, although now CF is more and more in play. Not to mention Uribe, although he's the least likely to be moved now. I think trading BA before he's come back and proved himself in Spring Training would be a huge mistake.

Not even sure he could get us back Joe Borchard right now.

Hitmen77
11-03-2006, 03:15 PM
wow, BA comes down with some undisclosed illness about which we have practically no details and people here are ready to dump the guy. Suddenly he's worth less than Borchard.

I do believe it is possible to come back from a stomach virus and still play MLB. Also seems like people here are suggesting this is BA bailing out on his commitment.

Until we hear more, I'm not going to prejudge whether this turn of events either hurts his ability to play next year or puts him irrevocably in Ozzie's and KW's doghouse. It's all speculation based on one or two lines in the newspaper at this point.

bafiarocks03
11-03-2006, 04:00 PM
OH my...Brian Anderson! =[

lets hope he doesn't look liek a Brandon McCarthy now! lol

CLR01
11-03-2006, 04:01 PM
wow, BA comes down with some undisclosed illness about which we have practically no details and people here are ready to dump the guy. Suddenly he's worth less than Borchard.

I do believe it is possible to come back from a stomach virus and still play MLB. Also seems like people here are suggesting this is BA bailing out on his commitment.

Until we hear more, I'm not going to prejudge whether this turn of events either hurts his ability to play next year or puts him irrevocably in Ozzie's and KW's doghouse. It's all speculation based on one or two lines in the newspaper at this point.


How often do you read these boards? You should know by know that Anderson is Satan in a Sox hat and he is already in Ozzie's doghouse.

Cuck_The_Fubs
11-03-2006, 04:02 PM
BA drank the water. :redface:




HAAA! :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

minorsfan
11-03-2006, 04:34 PM
If you visit the team's message board and translate the posts, all of the fans wanted Razor to be fired weeks ago. As to why I can't tell.. but I doubt that it was something Razor Shines didn't see coming.

He is an American (called him a foreigner) and they preferred to have a Venezuelan manager from day one, so I think he was on a short leash with the fans approval.

caulfield12
11-03-2006, 05:15 PM
How often do you read these boards? You should know by know that Anderson is Satan in a Sox hat and he is already in Ozzie's doghouse.


If the White Sox tried to trade him today...I didn't say that they couldn't get Borchard for all eternity, just that Anderson would need to "re-prove" himself in the Spring and that it would be dumb to trade him now.

I can't even imagine the White Sox getting a Howry, Eyre or Jamie Walker type back in trade for Anderson at this exact moment in time, can you? Coming into last season, that would have been much more doable.

FedEx227
11-03-2006, 06:24 PM
Serves BA right for not playing in 2006 games. Fill out that lineup card, *****!

soxwon
11-03-2006, 09:12 PM
Did Razor Shines ever have a baseball card?

CLR01
11-03-2006, 09:46 PM
If the White Sox tried to trade him today...I didn't say that they couldn't get Borchard for all eternity, just that Anderson would need to "re-prove" himself in the Spring and that it would be dumb to trade him now.

I can't even imagine the White Sox getting a Howry, Eyre or Jamie Walker type back in trade for Anderson at this exact moment in time, can you? Coming into last season, that would have been much more doable.


I don't disagree. I was just pointing out the feelings on Anderson by some of our members and the obvious Anderson being in Ozzie's doghouse.

OzzyTrain
11-04-2006, 03:24 PM
20lb, big deal. Honeslty I know these guys are on stricted food diets, I would think but when you get sick you always loose weight, depending on how long you are sick for. He will gain it back.

Slats
11-04-2006, 05:19 PM
Did Razor Shines ever have a baseball card?

Yep (http://www.baseballcardproject.com/showCard.asp?Card=Donruss~R~1985~401)

FedEx227
11-04-2006, 05:26 PM
Did Razor Shines ever have a baseball card?

Did you ask that before in another topic or did I just have an insane flash of Deja-Vu?

goclippersgo
11-04-2006, 06:31 PM
http://www.meridiano.com.ve/@Béisbol%20Venezolano/Béisbol%20Venezolano3.asp?deporte=Béisbol%20Venezo lano

According to this article, and rotoworld, the rest of the White Sox have left the team in protest to the Razor Shines incident.

I would say Kenny and Ozzie may be behind this, I wonder if these guys will go anywhere else, or just go home.

FedEx227
11-04-2006, 06:35 PM
Heres a rough translation of the important parts of the article:

“Protest concerned” in the salty novena Josh Fields, Ryan Sweeney, Sean Tracey, Tim Redding, Brian Anderson and Heath Phillips, all concerned players of the equipment Sharks of the Guaira, decided to leave to the currency escuala - according to it was possible to be known as measured protest by the dismissal of manager Razor Shines.

soxwon
11-05-2006, 08:20 PM
Did you ask that before in another topic or did I just have an insane flash of Deja-Vu?

i did but received no answer, so now i have an answer, so youll never see me ask it again.

Grzegorz
11-06-2006, 04:51 AM
According to this article, and rotoworld, the rest of the White Sox have left the team in protest to the Razor Shines incident.

I would say Kenny and Ozzie may be behind this, I wonder if these guys will go anywhere else, or just go home.

Good for those kids; what the hell was the organization thinking by shipping them to Venezuela?

SBSoxFan
11-06-2006, 09:06 AM
To me the more interesting (and important) news was about Anderson.

He could have an internal illness or something else may be going on. That could have an impact in ways we can't imagine yet....an impact on his health and availability this season, or as a piece of a trade or even his status with the Sox if as speculated, something may be going on behind the scenes between him and Ozzie.

Just a gut feeling but I think he's going to be traded. I hope not. Even at 'worst' he'd be a damn fine 4th outfielder who can come in for defensive purposes late in the game.

We'll see.

Lip

:D:

:anderson:
"I don't feel so good."