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PKalltheway
11-01-2006, 10:11 PM
In light of the "Greatest QB thread," I wanted to hear WSI's opinion on who is the Greatest Manager in baseball history (that is, if some of you want to consider the importance of a good manager; some may think it's overrated and that's ok). I just want to spark a good ol' debate (a clean one, hopefully):wink:. The top ten managers in wins are on this list by the way. Feel free to add anybody else I couldn't put on here (I put the max on here). The poll is public by the way.

TornLabrum
11-01-2006, 10:18 PM
McGraw. Connie Mack was either in the penthouse or the outhouse, and spent about as much (if not more) time in the latter as the former. McGraw spent a lot more time up than down.

Stengel probably managed the greatest teams I've ever seen, and did much better with his talent than Joe Torre has. (Look at the number of positions he platooned over the years.)

23Ventura
11-01-2006, 10:18 PM
This is a really difficult choice. I wasn't around when most of these guys were managing, so I went with Bobby Cox. He's definatly the best I've ever seen.

PKalltheway
11-01-2006, 10:24 PM
Call me crazy, but I think Joe McCarthy is one of the most underrated managers in history. Didn't he win like 5 W.S. with the Yankees in the 1930's? He also took the Cubs to the W.S. too.

buehrle4cy05
11-01-2006, 10:25 PM
Mack defeats McGraw for me just because McGraw cancelled a World Series. And I'm still bitter over it!

Oblong
11-02-2006, 07:27 AM
I went with Sparky due to his success with the Big Red Machine. It's easy to fill in the lineup card but managing egos is where they earn their pay. He's a guy that makes me wonder what he would have accomplished in a wild card era. I haven't looked up whether the Reds would have made the playoffs as a wild card team but I've done it with the Tigers.

But there's a lot to choose from and there's about 4 or 5 picks that you can't go wrong with.

WizardsofOzzie
11-02-2006, 09:54 AM
Whats this??? No Ozzie Guillen???!!!

SOXSINCE'70
11-02-2006, 04:47 PM
I voted for Casey Stengel.A manager who gets his
team to 9 WS in 12 years (they went 9-3 in Series
play under him) must know what he's doing.

Honorable mentions go to Sparky Anderson and Tommy LaSorda.

soxinem1
11-02-2006, 05:33 PM
He refused to let the Giants play in a World Series because of his ego, but I'd have to say John McGraw. Connie Mack gets a lot of play because he was around for so long and won a ton of games, but he also lost a ton. So many in fact that he has more losses than wins as a Manager.

McGraw had a knack for finding ML ready talent and knew when to get rid of players at the right time. He had very few 'down' years, while Mack seemed to be rebuilding and moving his team constantly.

I think John McGraw could own and manage today. I'm not sure about the others.

McCarthy and Stengel deserve consideration, but the talent pool those guys had was incredible. Terry Bevington could have won with those teams.

PKalltheway
11-02-2006, 06:51 PM
He refused to let the Giants play in a World Series because of his ego, but I'd have to say John McGraw. Connie Mack gets a lot of play because he was around for so long and won a ton of games, but he also lost a ton. So many in fact that he has more losses than wins as a Manager.

McGraw had a knack for finding ML ready talent and knew when to get rid of players at the right time. He had very few 'down' years, while Mack seemed to be rebuilding and moving his team constantly.

I think John McGraw could own and manage today. I'm not sure about the others.

McCarthy and Stengel deserve consideration, but the talent pool those guys had was incredible. Terry Bevington could have won with those teams.
McGraw sure did have an ego. Didn't he kick the Yankees out of the Polo Grounds because they were starting to outdraw the Giants, who used to be New York's team? I heard he also hated Babe Ruth. I also heard he was a brawler in his more formidable days, too.

eastchicagosoxfan
11-02-2006, 08:41 PM
He refused to let the Giants play in a World Series because of his ego, but I'd have to say John McGraw. Connie Mack gets a lot of play because he was around for so long and won a ton of games, but he also lost a ton. So many in fact that he has more losses than wins as a Manager.

McGraw had a knack for finding ML ready talent and knew when to get rid of players at the right time. He had very few 'down' years, while Mack seemed to be rebuilding and moving his team constantly.

I think John McGraw could own and manage today. I'm not sure about the others.

McCarthy and Stengel deserve consideration, but the talent pool those guys had was incredible. Terry Bevington could have won with those teams.

McGraw sure did have an ego. Didn't he kick the Yankees out of the Polo Grounds because they were starting to outdraw the Giants, who used to be New York's team? I heard he also hated Babe Ruth. I also heard he was a brawler in his more formidable days, too.

McGraw was a fiece competetior. He would bend the rules until they broke, and then fight you if you protested. Ever since I began studying McGraw, I've believed he could manage and GM just as well in today's game as he did nearly a century ago. He had an ego. His best friend was Christy Mathewson. The McGraws and Mathewsons shared an apartment for years. Matty became manager of the Reds, and eventually let Hal Chase go, because Chase was crooked, albeit immensely talented. McGraw signed Chase. Why? Probably to show his friend that he knew how to handle anyone, even Chase. McGraw failed too.
I've read a bit about Stengel, but nothing about McCarthy. I don't think Stengel's teams were as talented as most people believe. Stengel had Mantle, Berra and Ford, but I don't know who the others were.

By the way, I voted for McGraw.

ondafarm
11-02-2006, 09:20 PM
Whoever is voting for LaRussa really needs to have their head examined.

Scottzilla
11-03-2006, 12:47 AM
i voted for larussa so suck it!
i cant vote for guys that managed a hundred years before i was alive. but in my life time ive seen la russa consistently win. and not with the best talent.

connie mack ? didnt he own the team? kinda easy to rack up a thousand wins when youve got that kind of job security.

ondafarm
11-03-2006, 02:24 AM
i voted for larussa so suck it!
i cant vote for guys that managed a hundred years before i was alive. but in my life time ive seen la russa consistently win. and not with the best talent.

connie mack ? didnt he own the team? kinda easy to rack up a thousand wins when youve got that kind of job security.


I'm guessing you didn't see the 1988 World Series then when LaRussa talent rich A's were nearly swept by Lasorda's light hitting Dodgers. I got to see two of the games and Larussa sucked it big time.

Here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_World_Series

Johnny Mostil
11-03-2006, 07:26 AM
I went with Sparky due to his success with the Big Red Machine. It's easy to fill in the lineup card but managing egos is where they earn their pay. He's a guy that makes me wonder what he would have accomplished in a wild card era. I haven't looked up whether the Reds would have made the playoffs as a wild card team but I've done it with the Tigers.


Interesting point, or at least one I hadn't considered. In fact, the Reds had one of the four best records in the NL every year Anderson managed them except '71, and one of the two best records in every year but '71 and '77 (including '74 and '78, when they finished behind the Dodgers in the West).

I had known the Reds of '75 and '76 are the only NL team to repeat as World Series champs since the Giants of '21 and '22. What I hadn't known was that the Reds of '72 through '76 appear to be one of only four NL teams to have at least five straight seasons with 95 wins. The others appear to be the Braves of '96 through '00, the Cardinals of '41 through '46 (yes, that's six seasons), and the Cubs of '06 through '10. (There may be others I missed.)

And, yes, PK, McCarthy took the Yanks to six Series in the '30s, winning five, three more in the '40s, winning two, and also took the Cubs to the '30 Series.

Railsplitter
11-03-2006, 12:33 PM
I went with Marse Joe. He took over the Yankees when Babe Ruth wanted the manager's job and was able to deal with a rather sullen Babe. His 1936-39 teams won the pennant by and a double digit average of games. Stengel managed horrible teams with the Dodgers and Braves in the 30's and early 40's.

Johnny Mostil
11-03-2006, 12:55 PM
I went with Marse Joe. He took over the Yankees when Babe Ruth wanted the manager's job and was able to deal with a rather sullen Babe. His 1936-39 teams won the pennant by and a double digit average of games.

Not to mention 16 of 19 World Series games from the Giants, Cubs, and Reds . . .

gogosox675
11-03-2006, 03:48 PM
I'm a little surprised that Earl Weaver isn't getting more votes. If the playoff format had 4 teams from each league when he was managing, he would've won 9 division titles and 4 wild cards with the Orioles. That's pretty incredible. Also, his teams had an above .500 record in 15 of 16 seasons (counting full seasons only).

gogosox675
11-03-2006, 03:50 PM
I went with Marse Joe. He took over the Yankees when Babe Ruth wanted the manager's job and was able to deal with a rather sullen Babe. His 1936-39 teams won the pennant by and a double digit average of games. Stengel managed horrible teams with the Dodgers and Braves in the 30's and early 40's.

Not to mention the Mets of the early '60s.