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View Full Version : So much for Buehrle being bought out so he can play with the Cards, Dusty gone


CLR01
10-30-2006, 02:40 PM
Sox pick-up Dye's, Iguchi's and Buehrle's options.

http://whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20061030&content_id=1727576&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Scottiehaswheels
10-30-2006, 02:41 PM
Now lets trade all 3 for 3 AAAA Cardinals!!!!

itsnotrequired
10-30-2006, 02:42 PM
Sox pick-up Dye's, Iguchi's and Buehrle's options.

http://whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20061030&content_id=1727576&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

I am shocked by this news.

jenn2080
10-30-2006, 02:44 PM
:rolling:


That puts a stop to the Burls to the Cards :supernana: :supernana: :supernana:


I am pumped that their options were picked up.

SABRSox
10-30-2006, 02:45 PM
Cue the Dustin Hermanson appreciation thread.

Or not.

gobears1987
10-30-2006, 02:47 PM
I'm not worried about Buehrle going to the Cards. He has said many times he will continue to stay with the Sox so long as he is welcome on the team.

Jerko
10-30-2006, 02:48 PM
Damn, I was looking forward to a few more threads on the Cards potential 2007 rotation.....

SABRSox
10-30-2006, 02:48 PM
I'm not worried about Buehrle going to the Cards. He has said many times he will continue to stay with the Sox so long as he is welcome on the team.

And pay him more than the Cardinals offer.

cbotnyse
10-30-2006, 02:49 PM
good news. :)

jdm2662
10-30-2006, 02:50 PM
No surprises here. I wish Hermanson the best.

gobears1987
10-30-2006, 02:50 PM
Damn, I was looking forward to a few more threads on the Cards potential 2007 rotation.....
:tealpolice:

SABRSox
10-30-2006, 02:51 PM
That Jermaine Dye contract was a BARGAIN. Wow! I still can't get over it. KW out money-balled BB on that one.

Baby Fisk
10-30-2006, 02:52 PM
Cue the Dustin Hermanson appreciation thread.

Or not.

Dustin certainly deserves our appreciation. He was the bridge between Takatsu and Jenks in 2005. He stepped into the closer’s role in mid-season and got the job done. Had he faltered, the Sox’s division lead may have shrunk quicker, sooner. Thank you Dustin! You and your creative goatee trims will never be forgotten.

LauraJ14
10-30-2006, 02:54 PM
That Jermaine Dye contract was a BARGAIN. Wow! I still can't get over it. KW out money-balled BB on that one.


I think that the A's had a 10 million option on Dye for 2005 that they didn't pick up.

itsnotrequired
10-30-2006, 02:55 PM
:rolling:


That puts a stop to the Burls to the Cards :supernana: :supernana: :supernana:


I am pumped that their options were picked up.

How so? They could still trade him. Picking up the option, however, is a total no-brainer. You can't trade what you don't have, Cardinals or otherwise.

SABRSox
10-30-2006, 02:56 PM
Dustin certainly deserves our appreciation. He was the bridge between Takatsu and Jenks in 2005. He stepped into the closer’s role in mid-season and got the job done. Had he faltered, the Sox’s division lead may have shrunk quicker, sooner. Thank you Dustin! You and your creative goatee trims will never be forgotten.

Dont get me wrong, he did play a vital role in the first half of 2005. I'm just sick of appreciation threads.

Maybe we need another Aaron Rowand appreciation thread.

SABRSox
10-30-2006, 02:57 PM
I think that the A's had a 10 million option on Dye for 2005 that they didn't pick up.

You might be right about that. Still, I think KW saw something in JD that nobody else did. It's one of his smartest signings to date.

DaleJRFan
10-30-2006, 03:00 PM
Not exercising Hermanson's option frees up, what... $3 million? That should take care of Speier.

The others were no ****ing brainers.

skottyj242
10-30-2006, 03:03 PM
No brainer is right.

BeeBeeRichard
10-30-2006, 03:04 PM
No reason Hermanson couldn't return next year if he's healthy enough and still wants to pitch. Agreed that's TWO BIG IFs.

Just like picking up the other options was a no-brainer, declining Hermanson's was an equally easy decision. No one else will pay him even a million next year, so given the state of the bullpen it could be in the realm of possibility that he comes to camp with the Sox in '07 with a minor league deal. If he's rehabbing this off-season, it's a decision we might not hear till February.

itsnotrequired
10-30-2006, 03:05 PM
Not exercising Hermanson's option frees up, what... $3 million?

Yep. $3.5 million option or $500k buyout.

Hitmen77
10-30-2006, 03:46 PM
How so? They could still trade him. Picking up the option, however, is a total no-brainer. You can't trade what you don't have, Cardinals or otherwise.

....and he's still a free agent after the end of next season. If the Sox can't sign him to an extension, then they might trade him instead of just letting him walk at the end of '07.

MadetoOrta
10-30-2006, 03:50 PM
....and he's still a free agent after the end of next season. If the Sox can't sign him to an extension, then they might trade him instead of just letting him walk at the end of '07.

True. I'd keep him. It's a contract year. Expect a big year from Mark. Whether we sign him at the end of '07 is another story.

Vestigio
10-30-2006, 04:00 PM
That Jermaine Dye contract was a BARGAIN. Wow! I still can't get over it. KW out money-balled BB on that one.

Didn't the Rangers offer Dye more money than the Sox, but Dye turned down the Rangers offer?

whitesoxwilkes
10-30-2006, 04:27 PM
Didn't the Rangers offer Dye more money than the Sox, but Dye turned down the Rangers offer?

I think it was the Diamondbacks.

goon
10-30-2006, 04:36 PM
I think it was the Diamondbacks.

i'd rather play for the diamondbacks than the rangers. white sox own all though.

INSox56
10-30-2006, 05:26 PM
....and he's still a free agent after the end of next season. If the Sox can't sign him to an extension, then they might trade him instead of just letting him walk at the end of '07.

agreed...picking up the option has nothing to do with not trading him to the cards or anyone else for that matter. All it proves is that Kenny isn't an idiot. As for Dustin, we knew he was going to get bought out. NOW comes the question of whether we're going to rework a dirt cheap contract. :wink:

I want Mags back
10-30-2006, 05:30 PM
Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

soxchick20
10-30-2006, 06:45 PM
:) Glad to hear it!!!

goon
10-30-2006, 07:10 PM
after reading the article, i had no idea iguchi ranked so high among AL 2nd baseman. granted that talent pool is shallow, but iguchi bascially batted with an out in front of him all year. well done, tadahito.

Lip Man 1
10-30-2006, 07:12 PM
No surprises, all good moves. Hermanson may be back...you never know.

Lip

getonbckthr
10-30-2006, 07:13 PM
Now offer Mark a 4 yr/50 million extension.

oeo
10-30-2006, 07:14 PM
No surprises, all good moves. Hermanson may be back...you never know.

Lip

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me to see him given another shot. Apparantly Coop suggested they sign him to an incentive-based deal, so he could indeed be back.

soxfan13
10-30-2006, 07:29 PM
:rolling:


That puts a stop to the Burls to the Cards :supernana: :supernana: :supernana:


I am pumped that their options were picked up.


No it doesnt. First of all as long as he is with the Sox that will always be floating out there. Secondly, the Sox wouldnt buy him out so he can sign with the Cardinals and not get anything in return!

soxfan13
10-30-2006, 07:31 PM
That Jermaine Dye contract was a BARGAIN. Wow! I still can't get over it. KW out money-balled BB on that one.

Yeah but if he has another year like he just did, he might price himself out of a Sox uniform.

thomas35forever
10-30-2006, 07:32 PM
There will be a Buehrle-to-Cards rumor every offseason for the rest of his career or until he gets to play with them, whichever occurs first. Is anyone surprised by this? I should say not.

SABRSox
10-30-2006, 07:35 PM
Yeah but if he has another year like he just did, he might price himself out of a Sox uniform.

So you'd rather he suck next season? :?:

soxfan13
10-30-2006, 07:47 PM
So you'd rather he suck next season? :?:

Thats not what I said at all. Yeah, I want him to bat .210 15 HRs and 62 RBIs. I just stated a fact that if he has another MVP caliber season the White Sox might not be able to afford him. Dont try to put words in my mouth.

SABRSox
10-30-2006, 08:37 PM
Thats not what I said at all. Yeah, I want him to bat .210 15 HRs and 62 RBIs. I just stated a fact that if he has another MVP caliber season the White Sox might not be able to afford him. Dont try to put words in my mouth.

JD is 32, so he doesn't have many good years left ahead of him. I think he'll be a stud again next year, and if that prices him out of the Sox plans, so be it. We had him during his career seasons, and that's what you want. I'd hate to sign him to a Sheffield-esque contract and have him hit that veteran cliff.

But that's a discussion for after the victory parade in 2007.

southside rocks
10-30-2006, 08:46 PM
Question for those who know more about MLB contracts: Now that the Sox have picked up Dye's option for 2007, can they replace that with -- for instance -- a 2-year deal at more money?

In other words, do they HAVE to pay JD the option sum next year, or can they give him an extended multi-year contract now that replaces the option figure and keeps him contracted to the Sox for two years?

oeo
10-30-2006, 08:58 PM
Yeah but if he has another year like he just did, he might price himself out of a Sox uniform.

I'll gladly cash in another MVP-caliber season by Dye and him leaving for another championship. And like SABRSox said, he's getting up there in age, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if he's not here in 2008.

southside rocks
10-30-2006, 09:06 PM
I'll gladly cash in another MVP-caliber season by Dye and him leaving for another championship. And like SABRSox said, he's getting up there in age, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if he's not here in 2008.

He's 32. He'll be 34 on opening day 2008. He's the exact same age as Magglio Ordonez, and they'll both be -- in 2008 -- two years YOUNGER than Jim Edmonds was this year when he helped the Cards win the World Series Championship.

Jim Thome turned 36 in August of this year, and I believe the Sox expect him back for another year or so ...

Maybe because I'm not 24 myself, but it seems bizarre to me to hear a 32-year old baseball player referred to as "getting up there in age" and near the end of his career. :o:

I don't think that a club would or should give a long-term contract to a 32-year old outfielder, but neither do I think that a player that age has one foot on a banana peel.

oeo
10-30-2006, 09:11 PM
He's 32. He'll be 34 on opening day 2008. He's the exact same age as Magglio Ordonez, and they'll both be -- in 2008 -- two years YOUNGER than Jim Edmonds was this year when he helped the Cards win the World Series Championship.

Jim Thome turned 36 in August of this year, and I believe the Sox expect him back for another year or so ...

Maybe because I'm not 24 myself, but it seems bizarre to me to hear a 32-year old baseball player referred to as "getting up there in age" and near the end of his career. :o:

I don't think that a club would or should give a long-term contract to a 32-year old outfielder, but neither do I think that a player that age has one foot on a banana peel.

My point wasn't his age at the start of 2008 season, it's his age in 2010 or 2011...and before he came here, he's had injury problems, at 34 or 35 (the end of his next contract probably), those problems may come back. Of course there's no way of telling how many years like this he has left in him, I don't know if you give him a ton of money to stick around for a few more years. Especially when Kenny (and rightfully so) wants to get younger, and we have Sweeney, Fields, and possibly another outfielder if we pick up a leadoff hitter, all for one spot in the lineup for 2008.

It may be that it's time to move on, and go to Sweeney after next year.

BTW, I said, "he's getting up there in age," not, "he's old and nearing the end of his career". There's a difference; 32 isn't old, but it's getting there in three or four years down the road (for a baseball player).

FarWestChicago
10-30-2006, 09:50 PM
Maybe because I'm not 24 myself, but it seems bizarre to me to hear a 32-year old baseball player referred to as "getting up there in age" and near the end of his career. :o:

I don't think that a club would or should give a long-term contract to a 32-year old outfielder, but neither do I think that a player that age has one foot on a banana peel.It's just more FOBB dogma. All players are shot after they peak at 26. :redneck

JB98
10-30-2006, 09:57 PM
He's 32. He'll be 34 on opening day 2008. He's the exact same age as Magglio Ordonez, and they'll both be -- in 2008 -- two years YOUNGER than Jim Edmonds was this year when he helped the Cards win the World Series Championship.

Jim Thome turned 36 in August of this year, and I believe the Sox expect him back for another year or so ...

Maybe because I'm not 24 myself, but it seems bizarre to me to hear a 32-year old baseball player referred to as "getting up there in age" and near the end of his career. :o:

I don't think that a club would or should give a long-term contract to a 32-year old outfielder, but neither do I think that a player that age has one foot on a banana peel.

JD is in his prime right now. At minimum, he has three more productive seasons left in him. AT MINIMUM. All around the league there are examples of guys in their mid-to-late thirties who are still making solid contributions on winning teams. I'd extend JD and not think twice about doing it. I don't buy into this "sell high" mantra. I think Ryan Sweeney is going to be a good player, but he's not going to replace Jermaine Dye anytime soon.

Daver
10-30-2006, 10:06 PM
Question for those who know more about MLB contracts: Now that the Sox have picked up Dye's option for 2007, can they replace that with -- for instance -- a 2-year deal at more money?

In other words, do they HAVE to pay JD the option sum next year, or can they give him an extended multi-year contract now that replaces the option figure and keeps him contracted to the Sox for two years?

Now that he is under contract, the Sox have the option of negoiating an extension with his agent, how this will be recieved is a completely different matter. Jermaine signed cheap, and signed a bad contract where he has no choice to opt out of the club option, and his agent knows it, I would think the extension his agent would shoot for would be four years, and considerably more money.

ondafarm
10-30-2006, 10:14 PM
Now that he is under contract, the Sox have the option of negoiating an extension with his agent, how this will be recieved is a completely different matter. Jermaine signed cheap, and signed a bad contract where he has no choice to opt out of the club option, and his agent knows it, I would think the extension his agent would shoot for would be four years, and considerably more money.

Jermaine is one of the few players who doesn't use an agent. He negotiates for himself.

Daver
10-30-2006, 10:30 PM
Jermaine is one of the few players who doesn't use an agent. He negotiates for himself.

Really?

No wonder he signed a stinker of a contract.

LongLiveFisk
10-30-2006, 10:52 PM
I happened to be flipping stations while in my car over lunch hour today and heard this little gem by Murph the Cubbie smurf:

"Mark Buehrle was spotted at the Cardinals victory parade Sunday wearing a Cardinals cap."

I didn't read through this whole thread to know if this has been mentioned yet, but I'm surprised MB hasn't been raked over the coals for this comment. (Especially here at WSI). It doesn't really faze me too much but I know a few people here would be plenty pissed!

(Of course, considering the source, you may not be fazed at all either. :redneck )

JB98
10-30-2006, 10:57 PM
I happened to be flipping stations while in my car over lunch hour today and heard this little gem by Murph the Cubbie smurf:

"Mark Buehrle was spotted at the Cardinals victory parade Sunday wearing a Cardinals cap."

I didn't read through this whole thread to know if this has been mentioned yet, but I'm surprised MB hasn't been raked over the coals for this comment. (Especially here at WSI). It doesn't really faze me too much but I know a few people here would be plenty pissed!

(Of course, considering the source, you may not be fazed at all either. :redneck )

I can't for the life of me understand why this is such a big deal. In 2005, Mackowiak came back to Chicago and rooted for his boyhood team in the World Series. So what?

goon
10-31-2006, 12:00 AM
I can't for the life of me understand why this is such a big deal. In 2005, Mackowiak came back to Chicago and rooted for his boyhood team in the World Series. So what?


i'm not sure if rob was ever rumored to say that he wanted to play for the white sox during his years with the pirates, but buehrle has stated several times that he would like to play for st. louis some point in his career. i think some people might see what mark did as thumbing his nose at the white sox and kenny.

ChetChat
10-31-2006, 12:09 AM
Yay for MB! Now if Kenny would just make one more concession...
(regarding Mark, rain, and tarp)

JB98
10-31-2006, 12:09 AM
i'm not sure if rob was ever rumored to say that he wanted to play for the white sox during his years with the pirates, but buehrle has stated several times that he would like to play for st. louis some point in his career. i think some people might see what mark did as thumbing his nose at the white sox and kenny.

That's because they're sissies with an inferiority complex.

sox647
10-31-2006, 12:17 AM
I happened to be flipping stations while in my car over lunch hour today and heard this little gem by Murph the Cubbie smurf:

"Mark Buehrle was spotted at the Cardinals victory parade Sunday wearing a Cardinals cap."

I didn't read through this whole thread to know if this has been mentioned yet, but I'm surprised MB hasn't been raked over the coals for this comment. (Especially here at WSI). It doesn't really faze me too much but I know a few people here would be plenty pissed!

(Of course, considering the source, you may not be fazed at all either. :redneck )

he was there to cheer on his twin brother, wainwright.

CLR01
10-31-2006, 12:21 AM
i'm not sure if rob was ever rumored to say that he wanted to play for the white sox during his years with the pirates, but buehrle has stated several times that he would like to play for st. louis some point in his career. i think some people might see what mark did as thumbing his nose at the white sox and kenny.

Several? I can think of a few times but I don't think I would say several. The media however (and most Sox fans) can't seem to talk about Buehrle without mentioning that Buehrle keeps his suit cases packed waiting for his first opportunity to bail. What they always seem to forget is that he has also said that he loves playing for the Sox and would stay as long as they wanted him. He has said that while he would love to play for the Cardinal's he doesn't know if he would actually want to do it and deal with all of that pressure. That if anything maybe he would end his career there.

ondafarm
10-31-2006, 12:29 AM
i'm not sure if rob was ever rumored to say that he wanted to play for the white sox during his years with the pirates, but buehrle has stated several times that he would like to play for st. louis some point in his career. i think some people might see what mark did as thumbing his nose at the white sox and kenny.

Got news for you. On my team in Japan we had at least two factions: kids from Tokyo and kids from the south of Japan. As a foreigner, I was always regarded as immune to the squabbles between the two and I didn't care if an Edokko wanted to play for the Giants or Seibu or the Whales or anybody. He could talk all he wanted and keep what company he wanted, but at practice, team meetings and on the field he'd better be one huge fan of each and every one of his teammates. Victory parades, interviews, whatever he wanted during the off-season, but from day one of ST until the last out of the last game you had only one team in mind.

I had one teammate who singled in the ninth and got lifted for a pinch runner and was none to happy about it. He was cursing the manager and said nothing to the teammate out to relieve him. Unfortunately, I was just coming up to bat and saw the kid was arguing with the manager when he got to the dugout. I had the bunt sign on but the first pitch I hammered into our dugout and it really rattled around. My manager and the kid realized immediately why I did it and the kid started yelling support for the runner, loudly. The bunt sign came off.

I doubt that the Sox and Buehrle are any different than that.

goon
10-31-2006, 12:31 AM
Several? I can think of a few times but I don't think I would say several. The media however (and most Sox fans) can't seem to talk about Buehrle without mentioning that Buehrle keeps his suit cases packed waiting for his first opportunity to bail. What they always seem to forget is that he has also said that he loves playing for the Sox and would stay as long as they wanted him. He has said that while he would love to play for the Cardinal's he doesn't know if he would actually want to do it and deal with all of that pressure. That if anything maybe he would end his career there.

several = more than one. more than two, but fewer than many.


and as i said, he has mentioned that he would like to play for the cardinals at some point in his career. i honestly don't think he's going to st. louis, but "mark buehrle and st. louis" is not exactly a new topic and the fact that he was wearing a cardnials hat during the world series could rub people the wrong way. i'm not terribly offended by it, but it isn't something i would have done if i was in his position, that's for sure. if you disagree with that, i don't care all that much, no offense. we just disagree.

i don't doubt mark's dedication to the white sox and playing as hard as he can everytime he takes the field.

goon
10-31-2006, 12:41 AM
Got news for you. On my team in Japan we had at least two factions: kids from Tokyo and kids from the south of Japan. As a foreigner, I was always regarded as immune to the squabbles between the two and I didn't care if an Edokko wanted to play for the Giants or Seibu or the Whales or anybody. He could talk all he wanted and keep what company he wanted, but at practice, team meetings and on the field he'd better be one huge fan of each and every one of his teammates. Victory parades, interviews, whatever he wanted during the off-season, but from day one of ST until the last out of the last game you had only one team in mind.

I had one teammate who singled in the ninth and got lifted for a pinch runner and was none to happy about it. He was cursing the manager and said nothing to the teammate out to relieve him. Unfortunately, I was just coming up to bat and saw the kid was arguing with the manager when he got to the dugout. I had the bunt sign on but the first pitch I hammered into our dugout and it really rattled around. My manager and the kid realized immediately why I did it and the kid started yelling support for the runner, loudly. The bunt sign came off.

I doubt that the Sox and Buehrle are any different than that.


i just said i'm not surprised it rubbed some people the wrong way with all of the history of mark buehrle wanting to play for the cardinals. it's ridiculous for people to start creating threads saying that mark is gone because of it, or that he doesn't want to play for the sox...


this isn't a jared weaver situation where he's cheering for his brother or a rob mackowiak situation in which there were never any rumors about him joining the sox. considering the history of mark and his wishes to play for st. louis in his career, you would have to be nuts not to expect some fans to be rubbed the wrong way.

Man Soo Lee
10-31-2006, 01:14 AM
Jermaine is one of the few players who doesn't use an agent. He negotiates for himself.

From the Trib (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-061030soxitems,1,3477188.story?coll=cs-home-headlines):
Agent Bob Bry said he was hopeful that talks on an extension beyond 2007 would begin soon after Dye returns next week from a trip to Japan.

Beautox
10-31-2006, 01:27 AM
How so? They could still trade him. Picking up the option, however, is a total no-brainer. You can't trade what you don't have, Cardinals or otherwise.

agreed, some people don't understand the business of baseball.

SABRSox
10-31-2006, 01:31 AM
It's just more FOBB dogma. All players are shot after they peak at 26. :redneck

Uh, I think you mean 27. Now where is that propellerhead smiley?

Beautox
10-31-2006, 01:37 AM
Jermaine is one of the few players who doesn't use an agent. He negotiates for himself.

Dye's agent is Robert Bry.

goon
10-31-2006, 02:44 AM
Dye's agent is Robert Bry.


i was under the same impression as ondafarm because when jermaine came to the white sox he did negotiate his own contract.

Grzegorz
10-31-2006, 05:33 AM
I'm not worried about Buehrle going to the Cards. He has said many times he will continue to stay with the Sox so long as he is welcome on the team.

How nice; Buehrle going to stay with his current team...

How about this: The CWS will stay with Buehrle as long as he proves to be a valuable resource to the team.

This means the guy has much to prove this year.

Hey "Burls",

I'll give you a little piece of advice: leave the Cardinal hat at home when you report in February.

southside rocks
10-31-2006, 07:50 AM
Now that he is under contract, the Sox have the option of negoiating an extension with his agent, how this will be recieved is a completely different matter. Jermaine signed cheap, and signed a bad contract where he has no choice to opt out of the club option, and his agent knows it, I would think the extension his agent would shoot for would be four years, and considerably more money.

So any big money Jermaine could make from the Sox would have to come in 2008 and beyond? Can they give him more in 2007 than the option amount?

It's probably a moot point anyway because I'm sure you're right, JD will want a longer than 2-year contract and the Sox are very unlikely to do that.

I've come to see Dye as a player like Konerko: no one's sacred, but those two are pillars of the team in so many ways. I would not at all like to see JD leave in the near future.

fquaye149
10-31-2006, 09:20 AM
And pay him more than the Cardinals offer.

Yes, that's generally how free agency works SABRSox.

fquaye149
10-31-2006, 09:25 AM
How nice; Buehrle going to stay with his current team...

How about this: The CWS will stay with Buehrle as long as he proves to be a valuable resource to the team.

This means the guy has much to prove this year.

Hey "Burls",

I'll give you a little piece of advice: leave the Cardinal hat at home when you report in February.

Yeah dude that was a total dick move all these years when he brought a Cardinals hat to Pitchers and Catchers. Can you believe all the pictures you've seen of Buehrle in a Cardinals hat! Especially at Sox events!

Oh wait, he celebrated his boyhood team's world series win and THAT WAS IT.

This is worse than the Magglio schoolgirl handwringing.

veeter
10-31-2006, 10:30 AM
Now offer Mark a 4 yr/50 million extension.Finally, the voice of reason. I agree, agree, agree.

veeter
10-31-2006, 10:31 AM
There will be a Buehrle-to-Cards rumor every offseason for the rest of his career or until he gets to play with them, whichever occurs first. Is anyone surprised by this? I should say not.Exactly. Where's the beating a dead horse picture?

Jerome
10-31-2006, 01:30 PM
You might be right about that. Still, I think KW saw something in JD that nobody else did. It's one of his smartest signings to date.

Yeah I loved the JD signing two offseasons ago, I thought it was KW's best move ever (until the Thome trade)

excuse me while I go look back in my post history for proof

spiffie
10-31-2006, 01:53 PM
Now offer Mark a 4 yr/50 million extension.

Finally, the voice of reason. I agree, agree, agree.

Can we wait and see if he's going to bounce back at all from last year's debacle before committing to a $50 million dollar deal? Just on the off chance that, and I know it's a sort of heresy to ever assume a White Sox player will do anything but be the best in the world since they are White Sox players but I'm going to risk it, maybe Mark has lost a little something and that's why last year was so brutal. I'd rather risk that maybe it might cost an extra 1-2 million a year to sign him after re-proving himself instead of risking it now after an awful year.

getonbckthr
10-31-2006, 03:12 PM
Can we wait and see if he's going to bounce back at all from last year's debacle before committing to a $50 million dollar deal? Just on the off chance that, and I know it's a sort of heresy to ever assume a White Sox player will do anything but be the best in the world since they are White Sox players but I'm going to risk it, maybe Mark has lost a little something and that's why last year was so brutal. I'd rather risk that maybe it might cost an extra 1-2 million a year to sign him after re-proving himself instead of risking it now after an awful year.
We threw big contracts at Freddy after we traded for him to avoid FA, as we did with Garland and Contreras, so why not Mark?

spiffie
10-31-2006, 03:21 PM
We threw big contracts at Freddy after we traded for him to avoid FA, as we did with Garland and Contreras, so why not Mark?
Stats for the year before contract extensions were given:

Garcia: signed 7/04. 2004: 3.81 ERA, 121 ERA+, 1.21 WHIP
Garland: 2005: 3.50 ERA, 127 ERA+, 1.17 WHIP
Contreras: 2005: 3.61 ERA, 123 ERA+, 1.23 WHIP

Mark Buehrle: 2006: 4.99 ERA, 93 ERA+, 1.45 WHIP

With each of the guys you mentioned they were coming off very good years with reason to believe they would continue on this pace. With Mark not only did he suffer a major decline this last year, but there is no explanation available for it. Everyone swore up and down that he was perfectly healthy the entire year, and since anyone who suggested otherwise was told they are wrong, I am going to have to believe that. So you have a control pitcher who is suddenly getting bashed around while perfectly healthy, who also has thrown a lot of innings, and you want to chuck a huge multi-year deal at him. I can't see that unless you can use his awful year as leverage to get either A) a large discount or B) opt-out clauses for the team's discretion. If Mark wants to sign either a 4/32 deal or a 4/50 with an out clause for the organization after each of the first two seasons that would be great, sign him up! Otherwise, and I'm sure a Missouri resident like Mark Buehrle could understand this sentiment, I want him to show me that last year was an aberration before cracking open the vault for him.

JungleJimR
10-31-2006, 03:39 PM
One has to be impressed with what crafty left handers with change ups can do in the long term and after they get their heads together.
Glavine has had a few off years lately but has pitched outstanding bb for 15 years. And after Rogers figured things out - well look at this season. He did for the Tigers what Contreras did for the Sox in the second half of last year.

It would be a prudent move to sign MB to a long term contract.

CLR01
10-31-2006, 03:47 PM
One has to be impressed with what crafty left handers with change ups can do in the long term and after they get their heads together.
Glavine has had a few off years lately but has pitched outstanding bb for 15 years. And after Rogers figured things out - well look at this season. He did for the Tigers what Contreras did for the Sox in the second half of last year.

It would be a prudent move to sign MB to a long term contract.


I don't remember Contreras cheating last year.

getonbckthr
10-31-2006, 04:23 PM
Stats for the year before contract extensions were given:

Garcia: signed 7/04. 2004: 3.81 ERA, 121 ERA+, 1.21 WHIP
Garland: 2005: 3.50 ERA, 127 ERA+, 1.17 WHIP
Contreras: 2005: 3.61 ERA, 123 ERA+, 1.23 WHIP

Mark Buehrle: 2006: 4.99 ERA, 93 ERA+, 1.45 WHIP

With each of the guys you mentioned they were coming off very good years with reason to believe they would continue on this pace. With Mark not only did he suffer a major decline this last year, but there is no explanation available for it. Everyone swore up and down that he was perfectly healthy the entire year, and since anyone who suggested otherwise was told they are wrong, I am going to have to believe that. So you have a control pitcher who is suddenly getting bashed around while perfectly healthy, who also has thrown a lot of innings, and you want to chuck a huge multi-year deal at him. I can't see that unless you can use his awful year as leverage to get either A) a large discount or B) opt-out clauses for the team's discretion. If Mark wants to sign either a 4/32 deal or a 4/50 with an out clause for the organization after each of the first two seasons that would be great, sign him up! Otherwise, and I'm sure a Missouri resident like Mark Buehrle could understand this sentiment, I want him to show me that last year was an aberration before cracking open the vault for him.
How I see the situation with Mark is he had a bad season and he would be the first to tell you that. However with the price of good pitching these days we should take advantage of his offseason to sign to, sadly, a cheap deal. 12 million a year for a pitcher like Mark is a deal in this era of baseball. Or we can take the chance that he comes back goes 18-7 with a mid 3 era and then have to compete with the rest of baseball at a minimum of 15 million a year. Of course the 3rd option would be to trade Mark now as we have to open a slot for Mccarthy. The problem here is after last season his value is not what it should be. Not to mention that in my eyes Mark is the heart and soul of this franchise. Everyone can say its Paulie or JD or Ozzie but in all honesty its Mark. There are better pitchers out there than Mark but I would rather have a 14-14 mid 4 era Mark Buerhle on my team who will keep the clubhouse loose and relaxed opposed to a pitcher who goes 20-10 low 3 era but outside of every 5th day brings nothing else to the team.

veeter
10-31-2006, 04:29 PM
After five stellar seasons, then ONE bad one, I'm going to assume Mark didn't forget how to pitch. He won a world series, got married, then got a little lazy. He never had his velocity, and I think, and this is only a guess, that he came in out of shape. Not only because this is a contract year, but because MB is a true pro, I guarantee a nice 2007. The guy's a stud and he should finish his career with the Sox.

Frontman
10-31-2006, 11:44 PM
Sorry to see Dustin go in that I really liked his style and his intensity in 2005. Good luck to Dustin and for 2005, here's to you: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: (five is my limit. I'd give him one for every save he got us in 2005, but that would be overdoing it. Hell, I tipped that many back, my posts wouldn't make much sense!)

Glad to see Burhelemon, Dye, and Iguchi back with the Sox.

Front

brewcrew/chisox
11-01-2006, 12:54 AM
He's 32. He'll be 34 on opening day 2008. He's the exact same age as Magglio Ordonez, and they'll both be -- in 2008 -- two years YOUNGER than Jim Edmonds was this year when he helped the Cards win the World Series Championship.

Jim Thome turned 36 in August of this year, and I believe the Sox expect him back for another year or so ...

Maybe because I'm not 24 myself, but it seems bizarre to me to hear a 32-year old baseball player referred to as "getting up there in age" and near the end of his career. :o:

I don't think that a club would or should give a long-term contract to a 32-year old outfielder, but neither do I think that a player that age has one foot on a banana peel.

This is a great statement. When you have so many players post 35 still producing you can't simply dismiss a guy like Dye. I see him as actually a guy getting the most use out of talent he's had for a very long time. Look, this guy SHOULD have won the MVP this year. Jeter may win the damn thing, but Dye was easily the complete player.

Admittingly, Dye has been injury plagued in the past. But one could argue that many of those injuries were flook kind of things and that the past two years may be a better reflection of Dye's ability.

Iguana775
11-01-2006, 12:50 PM
Wasnt one of the reasons that the Sox didnt go for Clemens a while back was cause they thought he was too old and wouldnt be able to produce at a high level anymore?

Lip Man 1
11-01-2006, 01:31 PM
That's correct...then GM Ron Schueler made a less then complimentary comment when he said that "Clemens is over the hill."

Lip