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View Full Version : Did the Tigers choke or did the Cardinals win?


WizardsofOzzie
10-28-2006, 09:57 AM
Your thoughts? Personally, i think the Tigers gift wrapped alot of runs to the Cardinals, however their bats went ice cold. So that leaves the question, did the Tigers (a heavy favorite) just blow it, or did the Cardinals just outplay them?

South Side Irish
10-28-2006, 10:04 AM
Both, if it's possible.

While the Tigers, specifically their pitchers, were silly stupid in the field, the Cardinals capitalized on every break, as our Sox did last year. Sure, the Cards had some luck, but you've got to follow up luck with basehits and patient at-bats. Their pitching was outstanding, too. They may not throw like that all year in '07, but that pitching staff has the ability to do that, and has in the past.

The Cards offense was anemic, but did just enough. Imagine if Pujols did something after Game 1... this thing could've been real ugly. Personally, I think he's just as hungry to go back to the WS after hitting .168 or whatever.

I'm rambling...wow! yes, the Tigers totallly blew it, but I think the Cardinals deserve some serious credit for being clutch, and for pitching almost lights-out.

daveeym
10-28-2006, 10:19 AM
That was the same tigers team we saw all season. Inept for a series here and there and world beaters for stretches at a time. The week off really hurt them and their momentum. They choked away the division title and choked away the world series.

Not to take anything away from the Cardinals who played very well, did just enough to win, made the plays when they needed and got the hits that they needed. I liked something larussa said earlier in the week. Something to the effect of "this is nowhere near the best team I've had recently. Some of the recent teams I've had were better but either lost in the Series or didn't even make the series. But this team wanted it more." Sounds familiar.

Mickster
10-28-2006, 10:34 AM
http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs/Headline_Archives/10.2_Ozzie_choke_BDD.jpg

The Dude
10-28-2006, 10:39 AM
Tigers C H O K E D!!!!!!

What a pathetic display by Detroit. There was no reason the Cardinals should have been in the World Series, let alone the Playoffs!:rolleyes:

greenpeach
10-28-2006, 10:43 AM
That was the same tigers team we saw all season. Inept for a series here and there and world beaters for stretches at a time. The week off really hurt them and their momentum. They choked away the division title and choked away the world series.

Not to take anything away from the Cardinals who played very well, did just enough to win, made the plays when they needed and got the hits that they needed. I liked something larussa said earlier in the week. Something to the effect of "this is nowhere near the best team I've had recently. Some of the recent teams I've had were better but either lost in the Series or didn't even make the series. But this team wanted it more." Sounds familiar.

That sounds like coach-speak to me. The bottom line is that if the Mets had been able to get more than 2 innings out of Hernandez, Martinez & Trachsel in the NLCS they would've won the pennant going away.

jabrch
10-28-2006, 10:51 AM
They Cards were far superior to Detroit in every way. Detroit played much more like they did in the last 1/4 of the season than they did in the first 3/4. STL played like they did all year (up until September).

mrwag
10-28-2006, 10:54 AM
It just goes to show that all bets are off when the post season begins. No matter what you did in the regular season, if you can't do it in October it means nothing.

veeter
10-28-2006, 10:59 AM
IMO the last team standing deserves all the credit. They found a way to win it under on the current playoff system. Do I like that the 3rd place Sox won seven more games than the Cards? No. But, this is the current system. The Cards won fair and square.

I want Mags back
10-28-2006, 11:08 AM
major choke job

ondafarm
10-28-2006, 11:22 AM
major league choke job.

This is what happens when your lead-off man doesn't hit his weight. (Unless, Granderson weighs less than 100.)

1951Campbell
10-28-2006, 11:26 AM
Choke, but give St. Louis credit, everytime they were handed an "E", it seems like they scored.

BBaum21
10-28-2006, 11:29 AM
When you consider how big they were favored to win the Series, the Tigers definitely choked the Series away.

Give the Cardinals credit for capitalizing on Tigers' mistakes, but they never should have been in that situation.

Detroit should have run away and rid in the Series.

ode to veeck
10-28-2006, 12:13 PM
The Cards won it, coming from behind against good pitching against a very good Tigers team. They deserve all the credit as do the Tigers who smoked the competition in the AL in the regular season (most of it anyway) and in the playoffs.

jenn2080
10-28-2006, 12:20 PM
I am going to go with both. Lots of errors on the Tigers part, but the Cards played well too.

viagracat
10-28-2006, 12:22 PM
Don't know if the long layoff had an impact, but the Tigers sure looked rusty in the fundamentals throughout the series. They played bad from start to finish, and the Cards were able to take advantage of all the opportunities they got.

I don't know if "choked" is the right word, though. They didn't play well and they know it. That happens to every team during the season. Unfortunately for the Tigers this year, that kind of spell came at the worst possible time.

You gotta give the Cards at least some props, too. Sure, they only won 83 games during the year, but they did win two postseason series before facing Detroit. They got it together at the right time, to say the least.

As for the Tigers, they'll be the ones with the big targets on their backs next year, at least in the AL Central. Best for Detroit that the Tigers play as hard and as smart as they can when particularly the White Sox show up to play, because 2007 is going to be a much better year for the Sox. The Tigers will find out how hard it is to repeat a pennant. :smile:

Myrtle72
10-28-2006, 12:36 PM
Choke, but give St. Louis credit, everytime they were handed an "E", it seems like they scored.

I agree with you. Whlie the Tigers definately looked awful out there, the Cards were able to take advantage of it for the most part and they definately deserve credit for that.

35th&Shields
10-28-2006, 01:47 PM
I'd put it at 80% the Cardinals won and 20% that the Tigers choked. Keep in mind that if the Cardinals don't make the Tigers pay for those errors then the errors are inconsequential. The Tigers gave them the chances, but give the Cardinals credit for taking advantage and winning the World Series 4-1.

Blueprint1
10-28-2006, 01:54 PM
The Tigers seemed to forget that they had to win the world series. Everyone seemed to think that the AL team would win without even having to try. St. Louis started to get healthy during the playoffs. When healthy the Cardinals were as good as any AL team. They showed that during the World Series. The long layoff really hurt the Tigers bats. They were on fire and had too much time off.

chisoxmike
10-28-2006, 02:06 PM
A little bit of both. The Tigers play like utter ****, but going into the series they were the better team. The Cardinals had opportunities and they took advantage. But, nobody should take away what the Tigers did this year. They went from a 70-win team to a World Series team in one year. They had a wonderful season, their fans shouldn't be ashamed of 2006.

Anyways... the world series was grrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeaat!

voodoochile
10-28-2006, 02:08 PM
The Cards won it, coming from behind against good pitching against a very good Tigers team. They deserve all the credit as do the Tigers who smoked the competition in the AL in the regular season (most of it anyway) and in the playoffs.

I agree - The Cards pitching was definitely good enough to win a WS this 5 game stretch.

I do admit that anytime a team has 8 errors in 5 games you have to at least look at the choke angle. The Tigers were pathetic defensively and the Cardinals took advantage.

ws05champs
10-28-2006, 02:15 PM
The Cardinals just played baseball. I'm not sure what the Tigers were doing. To paraphrase Hawk, it's not so much that you win a game, its more like the other team looses. I was rooting for the Tigers but the way they played just made me laugh.

cheeses_h_rice
10-28-2006, 03:27 PM
The Cardinals got some great pitching performances out of guys I didn't expect it from -- Weaver and Wainwright come to mind -- and Rolen, Molina and Eckstein brought their A game.

That said, the Tigers' bats did not show up, except for Sean Casey (who had a great series) and Inge (who did not, defensively and on the basepaths). Granderson, Monroe and Inge were whiffing machines. And their defense completely sucked -- all those pitcher errors on routine, easy throws (Rodney, Verlander, Zumaya), plus Inge helping contribute to 2 losses with his own errors, and Granderson falling down in Center Field to put the Cards back in the driver's seat in Game 4. I'd have to say there was a little bit of choking/tightness going on with the Tigers.

rowand33
10-28-2006, 04:50 PM
Tigers choked.

I really think that the Cards got really lucky this postseason.

The Mets should have rolled them if they weren't so banged up. The Tigers should have rolled them but forgot how to play baseball.

I think that this Cards team is the worst team to win the world series this decade. easily.

They still won it though, and it's not their fault that teams get injured/forget how to play. But I don't think very much of the 2006 Cards, and I already had to have one conversation at a bar last night where a Cards fan tried to tell me the 06 cards were better than the 05 Sox.

thomas35forever
10-28-2006, 04:52 PM
As much as I hate to say it, the Tigers choked big time. Way too many mental errors on their part. They waited till the Fall Classic to go back to their 2003 form, didn't they?

Realist
10-28-2006, 05:02 PM
All of Cubdumb was rooting for the Tigers. With that much bad karma flying around, the Tigers were bound to choke. We should have seen this coming for miles.

sox647
10-28-2006, 06:43 PM
both, tigers choked & cardinals took advantage and played well.

congratulations to the cardinals & good luck to the tigers, everyone is going to nail them next year.

vegyrex
10-28-2006, 07:00 PM
You have to give credit to the Cards for taking advantage of Tiger mistakes.
The Tigers were a better team, but the best team doesn't always win.*



*So says Larry King. :D:

Chips
10-28-2006, 07:01 PM
A little bit of both. The Tigers play like utter ****, but going into the series they were the better team. The Cardinals had opportunities and they took advantage. But, nobody should take away what the Tigers did this year. They went from a 70-win team to a World Series team in one year. They had a wonderful season, their fans shouldn't be ashamed of 2006.

Anyways... the world series was grrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeaat!

Couldn't agree with you more. The Cardinals didn't exactly play like ****, they got hits when they needed them and pitched lights out. The Tigers made way too many errors.

shoelessshaun27!
10-28-2006, 07:10 PM
I'm also a Cards fan, so of course I'm going to say they did good. They played their best ball, and the Tigers couldn't handle it. Well last night the Cards did have home field advantage. The pressure was on the Tigers. The Tigers had a great season.

LongLiveFisk
10-28-2006, 07:15 PM
But I don't think very much of the 2006 Cards, and I already had to have one conversation at a bar last night where a Cards fan tried to tell me the 06 cards were better than the 05 Sox.

You'll always have fans like that but I'll bet this person didn't even see enough of the '05 Sox to realize just how good they really were. If I'm wrong, then this person needs to lay off the :smokin: .

RadioheadRocks
10-28-2006, 08:15 PM
Maybe if they had the LUCKY BLUE DOT from the National Enquirer... :D:

PKalltheway
10-28-2006, 10:19 PM
The Cards got solid pitching in this series and as the old saying goes "Good pitching always beats good hitting." That being said, the Tigers pitching didn't show up. I'd say it was a little bit more of a victory for the Cards than it was a choke for the Tigers.

ma-gaga
10-28-2006, 10:33 PM
Personally, I "blame" the White Sox for the Cardinals win.

The last series of the year, the W.Sox "infected" the Twins with a bad case of the jitters and terrible hitting.

The first playoff series, the A's sweep the Twins 3-0, but the Twins infect the A's with the jitters...

The second series, the Tigers sweep thru the A's, but the A's infect the Tigers...

The third series, the Cards win in 5 games. And the only game the Tigers win was the one that they cheated in. If there was a 4th series I would have bet all my disposible money against the Cards, because the infection lives. The AL was doomed.

Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty obvious that the W.Sox controlled this post-season like no other team in baseball possibly could possibly have imagined. And for that, I salute you!

:cool:

JB98
10-29-2006, 01:37 AM
Detroit choked. The Cardinals were an 83-win team in baseball's worst division. The Tigers won 95 games in baseball's best division. The Tigers were the better team, and it was their World Series to lose. And they lost it. The Cardinals had a couple of pitchers step up big time, but for the most part, they just let Detroit fall on its sword in this series.

FarWestChicago
10-29-2006, 01:50 AM
Every single one of you who thinks the pathetic Cardinals won the series needs a serious reality check. We are talking about perhaps the worst playoff team in the history of baseball. Let's face it, if they didn't play in the worst division in the universe, they were a sub .500 team. The Cardinals blow. If you don't agree, don't reply. You're just clueless.

These were the weirdest playoffs in a long time. Most of the teams stunk to begin with. That's why I was telling ma-gaga he should have been enraged about his Twinks lying down to the vomit inducing stench of the FOBB's. The Yankees were a joke. Hell, the only two decent teams in the playoffs were the Twinks, until they hit the recliner, and the Kitties, when not in choke mode. I guess you could make a case the Mets weren't bottom feeders, but they lost their entire pitching staff to injuries in late September.

As a Sox fan you really have to wish the Sox didn't suck this year. Has there ever been an easier repeat opportunity in any sport? It was right there. So LaRoida fans, slink off with your trophy and know it was basically a fluke of historic proportions. :cool:

PKalltheway
10-29-2006, 01:18 AM
Every single one of you who thinks the pathetic Cardinals won the series needs a serious reality check. We are talking about perhaps the worst playoff team in the history of baseball. Let's face it, if they didn't play in the worst division in the universe, they were a sub .500 team. The Cardinals blow. If you don't agree, don't reply. You're just clueless.


I agree that the Cardinals would not have finished over .500 outside of the NL Central, but can't you at least admit that the Cards came up with timely pitching?

FarWestChicago
10-29-2006, 01:25 AM
I agree that the Cardinals would not have finished over .500 outside of the NL Central, but can't you at least admit that the Cards came up with timely pitching?Why try to polish a turd? The Cards were not a good team. The only way they could win the whole enchilada was for it to be rotten. Jeff Weaver, please. All the Kitties who made him look like Bob Gibson should be banned from MLB, every last one of them. :redneck

ondafarm
10-29-2006, 02:11 AM
Every single one of you who thinks the pathetic Cardinals won the series needs a serious reality check. We are talking about perhaps the worst playoff team in the history of baseball. Let's face it, if they didn't play in the worst division in the universe, they were a sub .500 team. The Cardinals blow. If you don't agree, don't reply. You're just clueless.

These were the weirdest playoffs in a long time. Most of the teams stunk to begin with. That's why I was telling ma-gaga he should have been enraged about his Twinks lying down to the vomit inducing stench of the FOBB's. The Yankees were a joke. Hell, the only two decent teams in the playoffs were the Twinks, until they hit the recliner, and the Kitties, when not in choke mode. I guess you could make a case the Mets weren't bottom feeders, but they lost their entire pitching staff to injuries in late September.

As a Sox fan you really have to wish the Sox didn't suck this year. Has there ever been an easier repeat opportunity in any sport? It was right there. So LaRoida fans, slink off with your trophy and know it was basically a fluke of historic proportions. :cool:

Thank you West for a concise summary.

StillMissOzzie
10-29-2006, 03:29 AM
IMHO, this was a Detroit choke job all the way. The Tigers gift-wrapped this series with all the errors they made. Sure, you can say that it was the Cardinals that took advantage of those errors, but I think that you should expect that from ANY playoff caliber team. Add to that the not-errors-but-misplays, both in the field and on the basepaths.

The frosting on the cake was the pathetic hitting from the Tigers 1-2-3 batters. I don't recall the exact stats, but I think they were something like a combined 5 for 58, led by Polanco's 0 for the World Series (until Leyland dropped him in the order for game 5, to no avail). They never gave themself a chance to overcome all of the gift runs.

Credit the Cardinal pitchers if you want; Carpenter and Suppan continued their fine seasons, but they had a couple of regular season stiffs looking like Cy Young. Jeff Weaver stunk out loud pretty much the whole year, with an ERA > 5 between the Angels and Cards, but looked like an ace in Game 5. Anthony Reyes has showed flashes of brilliance, including a 1-hit, 1-0 loss to the Sox, but overall, he was 5-8 for the year and he also had an ERA > 5.
And as a final insult-to-injury, the Sox owned the Cards in 3 straight in the regular season, and I think the Tigers did too in their interleague series. Meanwhile, the Cubs bested the Cards in their season series at 11-8!

SMO
:gulp:

Mohoney
10-29-2006, 03:43 AM
I'm still shocked at how effective Weaver and Suppan were. Those aren't names that get you too excited when you see them listed under pitching probables, but they each made some big pitches when they had to.

Grzegorz
10-29-2006, 05:37 AM
As a Sox fan you really have to wish the Sox didn't suck this year. Has there ever been an easier repeat opportunity in any sport? It was right there. So LaRoida fans, slink off with your trophy and know it was basically a fluke of historic proportions. :cool:

This is absolutely spot on analysis... As a Chicago White Sox fan this very fact makes this season so much harder to stomach.

southside rocks
10-29-2006, 07:27 AM
It's cold comfort to know that the White Sox weren't the only team with two drastically different styles of play this year.

The Tigers that I saw play in the WS were not the same team that I saw play in the ALDS and ALCS. What happened to them? That'll be speculated about for a long time. They lost confidence? Their luck ran out? The innings finally caught up to their pitchers? They were an inexperienced club matched against an experienced one?

Quite a few times during the season, the Tigers made me think of the '05 White Sox. In the World Series, they definitely didn't. That Tiger team was horrible. The Cardinals looked good by comparison, but the Kansas City Royals could have looked good by comparison.

I'm just watching the '05 World Series DVD's and I'm SO grateful that our Sox never collapsed, that they finished the run they started in true champion style.

The White Sox WON their Commissioner's Trophy. The Cardinals got theirs handed to them by the Tigers.

Baby Fisk
10-29-2006, 07:39 AM
El Foldo!

Sorry Oblong and other Kitten Lovers here, but the Tigers folded like a cheap suit. Way to represent.

FarWestChicago
10-29-2006, 07:41 AM
Thank you West for a consice summary.

El Foldo!

Sorry Oblong and other Kitten Lovers here, but the Tigers folded like a cheap suit. Way to represent.:roflmao:

Baby Fisk was more concise. :D:

gobears1987
10-29-2006, 11:18 PM
The Cards (a sucky 83 win team) won this series. That's baseball for you. Sometimes the worse team wins because they simply outplay their competition.

Tragg
10-30-2006, 07:28 AM
This just makes me more disappointed that we just futzed around all season. 2006 was a mediocre year, ripe for a repeat.

Corlose 15
10-30-2006, 08:02 PM
The Cardinals played just well enough to win and the Tigers played like a bunch of kids who didn't know what they were doing there.

Ol' No. 2
10-30-2006, 09:03 PM
This just makes me more disappointed that we just futzed around all season. 2006 was a mediocre year, ripe for a repeat.You got that right. The best team by far was not playing this post-season.

Grzegorz
10-31-2006, 05:37 AM
You got that right. The best team by far was not playing this post-season.

Who was the best team? Please do not say the Chicago White Sox.

23Ventura
10-31-2006, 03:51 PM
Tigers choked.

I really think that the Cards got really lucky this postseason.

The Mets should have rolled them if they weren't so banged up. The Tigers should have rolled them but forgot how to play baseball.

I think that this Cards team is the worst team to win the world series this decade. easily.

They still won it though, and it's not their fault that teams get injured/forget how to play. But I don't think very much of the 2006 Cards, and I already had to have one conversation at a bar last night where a Cards fan tried to tell me the 06 cards were better than the 05 Sox.
The 06 Cards weren't even as good as the 06 Sox. Must be nice to need only 83 wins to get to the playoffs.

Hangar18
10-31-2006, 04:11 PM
Your thoughts? Personally, i think the Tigers gift wrapped alot of runs to the Cardinals, however their bats went ice cold. So that leaves the question, did the Tigers (a heavy favorite) just blow it, or did the Cardinals just outplay them?

how about ....
C: SOX allowed the Tigers to embarrass themselves to an 83 win team.

WizardsofOzzie
10-31-2006, 04:41 PM
Who was the best team? Please do not say the Chicago White Sox.
It sure as hell wasn't either team in the WS

Hangar18
10-31-2006, 05:12 PM
Every single one of you who thinks the pathetic Cardinals won the series needs a serious reality check. We are talking about perhaps the worst playoff team in the history of baseball. Let's face it, if they didn't play in the worst division in the universe, they were a sub .500 team. The Cardinals blow. If you don't agree, don't reply. You're just clueless.

These were the weirdest playoffs in a long time.

As a Sox fan you really have to wish the Sox didn't suck this year. Has there ever been an easier repeat opportunity in any sport? It was right there. So LaRoida fans, slink off with your trophy and know it was basically a fluke of historic proportions. :cool:

Friday Nite, watching the game, I remember thinking I wanted the Cardinals to win, just to get it over with. This was an UGLY world series

MDF3530
10-31-2006, 05:19 PM
I think the Tigers choked. They literally threw (countless wild pitches and throwing errors) away the Series.

davenicholson
11-01-2006, 08:32 AM
When healthy the Cardinals were as good as any AL team.
Fixed it for ya. I don't want anyone else to suffer the embarassment of doubling over in laughter and spitting coffee all over their desk at work. That's what I did when I thought at first that you were serious.

TDog
11-02-2006, 05:37 PM
I was on the road for the last two games of the World Series -- literally. I listened to the end of the last game on a car radio in northern British Columbia. I didn't make any predictions on the Series, but I posted that I wouldn't be surprised if the Tigers lost. Really, I was surprised that the Tigers beat the Yankees and A's beat the Twins.

Others have noted that the Tigers weren't playing well at the end of the season. They didn't win the division, really were lucky to get to the postseason. I doubt the Tigers will be as good next year as they seemed to be this year.

Show me a team from Missouri, and I'll show you a team who could beat the Tigers late in 2006, even with Detroit getting the homefield advantage.

kobo
11-02-2006, 06:00 PM
The 06 Cards weren't even as good as the 06 Sox. Must be nice to need only 83 wins to get to the playoffs.
They were good enough to make the playoffs, granted they were in a weaker division, but once they got into the playoffs they got on a roll and they beat everyone. It doesn't matter what happens in the regular season, once the playoffs start it's a whole new game. Everyone can keep going back and forth over how good the Cardinals are, but they were healthy going into the playoffs and had some breaks and took advantage of them. I think it stinks that they only needed 83 wins to make it to the playoffs, but they proved they were better than the other teams that were in the playoffs.

SOXSINCE'70
11-02-2006, 06:32 PM
Every single one of you who thinks the pathetic Cardinals won the series needs a serious reality check. We are talking about perhaps the worst playoff team in the history of baseball. Let's face it, if they didn't play in the worst division in the universe, they were a sub .500 team. The Cardinals blow. If you don't agree, don't reply. You're just clueless.

These were the weirdest playoffs in a long time. Most of the teams stunk to begin with. That's why I was telling ma-gaga he should have been enraged about his Twinks lying down to the vomit inducing stench of the FOBB's. The Yankees were a joke. Hell, the only two decent teams in the playoffs were the Twinks, until they hit the recliner, and the Kitties, when not in choke mode. I guess you could make a case the Mets weren't bottom feeders, but they lost their entire pitching staff to injuries in late September.

As a Sox fan you really have to wish the Sox didn't suck this year. Has there ever been an easier repeat opportunity in any sport? It was right there. So LaRoida fans, slink off with your trophy and know it was basically a fluke of historic proportions. :cool:

You are correct,Sir!!:cool:

SOXSINCE'70
11-02-2006, 06:33 PM
Who was the best team?


The 1927 Yankmees.:D:

TDog
11-03-2006, 07:39 PM
Every single one of you who thinks the pathetic Cardinals won the series needs a serious reality check. We are talking about perhaps the worst playoff team in the history of baseball. Let's face it, if they didn't play in the worst division in the universe, they were a sub .500 team. The Cardinals blow. If you don't agree, don't reply. You're just clueless.

These were the weirdest playoffs in a long time. Most of the teams stunk to begin with. That's why I was telling ma-gaga he should have been enraged about his Twinks lying down to the vomit inducing stench of the FOBB's. The Yankees were a joke. Hell, the only two decent teams in the playoffs were the Twinks, until they hit the recliner, and the Kitties, when not in choke mode. I guess you could make a case the Mets weren't bottom feeders, but they lost their entire pitching staff to injuries in late September.

As a Sox fan you really have to wish the Sox didn't suck this year. Has there ever been an easier repeat opportunity in any sport? It was right there. So LaRoida fans, slink off with your trophy and know it was basically a fluke of historic proportions. :cool:

At the same time, you have to appreciate the fact that the White Sox kept the focus last year and didn't let the chance slip away.

I wouldn't call the Cardinals' championship a fluke, though, any more than I would call it a fluke that the 1906 116-win Cubs couldn't close out the World Series. The Tigers were only a champion-caliber when compared to the Cardinals. The Twins were a better team. So were the Yankees. The Tigers demonstrated, as they did late in the regular season, that they could lose to any team. I imagine players like Verlander or Granderson must think getting to the World Series is easy and they will be back. But getting there is an opportunity that doesn't happen every year.

And the Tigers lost it.

AAA
11-03-2006, 08:36 PM
As a Cards fan, I must say it was a little of both. For starters the Cards had to beat the Pads and Mets to get to the big games to begin with. LaRussa used the best of the best to his advantage in his rotation and suddenly bats such as Scott Rolen's & Eckstein's came to life. Pujol's bat was asleep but that didn't matter because Albert brought the fear factor to Detroit and was 1 of the many reasons the Tigers played below their standards.

AAA
11-03-2006, 08:41 PM
I imagine players like Verlander or Granderson must think getting to the World Series is easy and they will be back. But getting there is an opportunity that doesn't happen every year.

And the Tigers lost it.

So true, with so many teams in MLB now along with free agency, which means rosters being far from stable year after year, dynasties aren't as easy as they were once were to build in MLB. The best the powerhouses can do now is keep winning every year and get in the playoffs.

Oblong
11-03-2006, 09:48 PM
I think losing will have a positive effect on the young guys. More so than winning would have. It would have been nice for them to get that ring but I wonder about the hunger factor once you win it so early. Verlander and Zumaya are rookies. Granderson pretty much was a rookie.

I think if the Sox had lost last year to the Astros they would have won it this year. That's not me saying that I think the Tigers will win the world series next year. I'm saying that the Sox were good enough in 2006.

I don't know if I said this here or not but I think the week off between series had a negative effect. Not necessarily the games not being played but the weather for the first 3 or 4 days after game 4 of the ALCS was brutal and the guys couldn't practice much. They went to Ford Field to run and throw but that's about it. MLB Players go through such a grind from March to October that I think shutting down for 3 days, particularly at the end, can really do things to your timing and that's what makes these guys so good at what they do, the timing.

AAA
11-03-2006, 10:04 PM
MLB Players go through such a grind from March to October that I think shutting down for 3 days, particularly at the end, can really do things to your timing and that's what makes these guys so good at what they do, the timing.

Blame that all on greed! :angry: 8 teams in each league + 154 games and a trip straight to the World Series is the way it really should be. Any team that has come out on top after that many games deserves to go straight to the World Series. I'm afraid our forefathers had it right to begin with. Now the system is so fricking crazy the World Series could have lasted till early November. That just ain't right! :angry:

TDog
11-04-2006, 05:14 PM
I think losing will have a positive effect on the young guys. More so than winning would have. It would have been nice for them to get that ring but I wonder about the hunger factor once you win it so early. Verlander and Zumaya are rookies. Granderson pretty much was a rookie.

I think if the Sox had lost last year to the Astros they would have won it this year. That's not me saying that I think the Tigers will win the world series next year. I'm saying that the Sox were good enough in 2006.

I don't know if I said this here or not but I think the week off between series had a negative effect. Not necessarily the games not being played but the weather for the first 3 or 4 days after game 4 of the ALCS was brutal and the guys couldn't practice much. They went to Ford Field to run and throw but that's about it. MLB Players go through such a grind from March to October that I think shutting down for 3 days, particularly at the end, can really do things to your timing and that's what makes these guys so good at what they do, the timing.


Maybe you will prove to be right. But losing in the heartbreaking ALCS of 1983 didn't help the Sox in 1984. Losing the heartbreaking NLCS of 1984 and 2003 didn't make the Cubs appear any hungrier in 1985 and 2004. The 2004 Cubs, like the 1984 White Sox, even came back stronger, with a future Hall of Fame pitcher added to the starting rotation. If the Padres had beaten the Tigers in 1984, would Detroit have made the postseason in 1985? The Padres even looked good for a good part of 2005 after adding LaMarr Hoyt, but it didn't come together for an October run.

It's possible losing the World Series brought together a team with a core group that already was brought together by losing 119 games a couple of years ago. Most teams that put together strong runs and come up just short don't come back in better shape to kick baseball butt.

More likely, the Tigers had a dream season when everything fell into place, including a safety net for them to make the playoffs when they collapsed at season's end. I don't expect the Tigers to get to the postseason in 2007.

23Ventura
11-04-2006, 05:43 PM
I don't expect the Tigers to get to the postseason in 2007.
I think the Tigers are gonna be pretty good again next year, but I do agree that they probably won't make the playoffs. Maybe in another division, but not in the AL Central. I think the Sox and the Twins will both finish ahead of them next year.

TDog
11-04-2006, 05:53 PM
I think the Tigers are gonna be pretty good again next year, but I do agree that they probably won't make the playoffs. Maybe in another division, but not in the AL Central. I think the Sox and the Twins will both finish ahead of them next year.

In at least one of the last two seasons, four of the AL Central's five teams have won at least 91 games. Only three of those teams have made it into the postseason. Even finishing second with 93 wins wasn't good enough for the Indians in 2005.

Having a good team doesn't guarantee you a spot in the baseball postseason. Not in the American League, anyway.