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View Full Version : Cora becomes bench coach


HotelWhiteSox
10-26-2006, 04:07 PM
According to AM1000, he gone from 3rd, I think they said Razor Shines is the new 3rd base coach

Hitmen77
10-26-2006, 04:13 PM
According to AM1000, he gone from 3rd, I think they said Razor Shines is the new 3rd base coach

Whew! I won't miss him as a 3rd coach.

So, he's replacing Raines as bench coach. That's not as visible to the fans as 3B coach, so I really don't know if Raines did a good job as bench coach or if Cora will do better.

FielderJones
10-26-2006, 04:15 PM
I think I'd like to see an official White Sox press release (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/index.jsp?c_id=cws) before I believe this. What's The Score?

The Critic
10-26-2006, 04:31 PM
He only accepted the bench position on the condition that he can still send runners home from there.
"Don't listen to Razor, GO!! GO!!!!!"

:D:

BeviBall!
10-26-2006, 04:33 PM
I think we just added an extra 15 runs this year!

davenicholson
10-26-2006, 04:37 PM
Can someone remind me just what exactly a "bench coach's" duties are? For example, when I managed my daughter's and then my son's T-Ball teams, it was one of the responsibilities of the bench coach to prevent the players from stuffing grass down each other's shirts.

Mickster
10-26-2006, 04:39 PM
Can someone remind me just what exactly a "bench coach's" duties are? For example, when I managed my daughter's and then my son's T-Ball teams, it was one of the responsibilities of the bench coach to prevent the players from stuffing grass down each other's shirts.

Cora has the same duties.....

Iwritecode
10-26-2006, 04:43 PM
Can someone remind me just what exactly a "bench coach's" duties are? For example, when I managed my daughter's and then my son's T-Ball teams, it was one of the responsibilities of the bench coach to prevent the players from stuffing grass down each other's shirts.

I believe they would be called "assistant coaches" in other sports. Same basic duties.

DumpJerry
10-26-2006, 04:52 PM
The Bench Coach is the Manager's extra eyes and ears on the game. He will make suggestions to the Manager about possible pitching changes or pinch hitters or will notice things the Manager will miss because one person cannot see everything that is taking place on the field. He also keeps the grass supply fresh in case the First or Third baseman for the other team gets too close to the dugout chasing a flyball.:wink:

Sox Fan 35
10-26-2006, 04:55 PM
Good, Cora was pretty bad as a 3rd base coach. He seems like he would be a good bench coach.

Do you guys think we would be better of keeping Razor Shines at AAA?

NoNeckEra
10-26-2006, 04:56 PM
He only accepted the bench position on the condition that he can still send runners home from there.
"Don't listen to Razor, GO!! GO!!!!!"

:D:
I'd hate to be standing next to Joey Cora on the bench when the Sox get a hit with a runner in scoring position, 'cause I'd get hit in the face while he instinctively makes the "windmill" gesture.

soxwon
10-26-2006, 05:27 PM
I think we just added an extra 15 runs this year!

Cora send WAY TOO MANY runners to home, a lot were out!!!
Maybe Razor will have a STOP sign, then a hit would score runs.

salty99
10-26-2006, 10:02 PM
But who's going to coach in the minors!

Brian26
10-26-2006, 10:13 PM
But who's going to coach in the minors!

:jerry

"Norfolk. Richmond. Durham. Bring your A game!"

ondafarm
10-26-2006, 10:25 PM
:jerry

"Norfolk. Richmond. Durham. Bring your A game!"

But coach, those are all AAA teams.

ondafarm
10-26-2006, 10:33 PM
Can someone remind me just what exactly a "bench coach's" duties are? For example, when I managed my daughter's and then my son's T-Ball teams, it was one of the responsibilities of the bench coach to prevent the players from stuffing grass down each other's shirts.

A bench coach is the one coach who is with the manager the whole game. As such, he is an important sounding board. Most managers also ask them to keep track of the opposition team, they tend to be the lead watcher of the opposition moves. Suggesting alternate moves and predicting oppononet responses are also key duties.

And keeping players from stuffing grass down each others shirts.

chisoxmike
10-26-2006, 10:37 PM
:jerry

"Norfolk. Richmond. Durham. Bring your A game!"



:jerry
"It's time."

thedudeabides
10-27-2006, 12:00 PM
I think we just added an extra 15 runs this year!

Cora was nearly as aggresive in 05, he just seemed to have better results. Ozzie wants his third base coach to be aggressive, so I wouldn't expect too much change. Although, I hope Razor can realize that being aggressive with Konerko and Thome is more along the lines of recklessness.

flo-B-flo
10-27-2006, 12:03 PM
From my end I thought he was the closest coach to Guillen anyway. This just confirms it. During the season, I noticed that Raines was not as involved as in 05.

The Dude
10-27-2006, 12:05 PM
According to AM1000, he gone from 3rd, I think they said Razor Shines is the new 3rd base coach

Perfectly fine with me! Getting that bum aff of the hot corner is great! Hopefully Razor can cut it over there. HA! I'm hilarious!:redneck

INSox56
10-27-2006, 12:13 PM
Do you guys think we would be better of keeping Razor Shines at AAA?

I think maybe, but you've gotta think of his happiness too. The closer you are to the actual major league club, the more apt you are to move up to managing in the bigs yourself.

I won't believe anything about Razor till I see a press release though. I could prematurely believe cora moving to the bench though.

kevin57
10-27-2006, 12:26 PM
From my end I thought he was the closest coach to Guillen anyway. This just confirms it.

Got it! Cora and Guillen are definitely tight. I remember when Guillen as a player ripped into the fans defending Cora who during the playoffs (I think) was hitting a spectacular .198. Nobody criticizes Joey so long as Ozzie is around.

alohafri
10-27-2006, 12:45 PM
Can someone remind me just what exactly a "bench coach's" duties are? For example, when I managed my daughter's and then my son's T-Ball teams, it was one of the responsibilities of the bench coach to prevent the players from stuffing grass down each other's shirts.

If the bench coach is Joe Nossek, the job is stealing signs. :)

Ol' No. 2
10-27-2006, 04:02 PM
Cora was nearly as aggresive in 05, he just seemed to have better results. Ozzie wants his third base coach to be aggressive, so I wouldn't expect too much change. Although, I hope Razor can realize that being aggressive with Konerko and Thome is more along the lines of recklessness.The Monday morning quarterbacks are continually bitching about runners getting thrown out at the plate, but no one ever mentions the extra runs that scored that would not have scored with a more conservative coach. I'm fine with being aggressive. The LAST thing you want is a coach who never gets anyone thrown out.

vegyrex
10-27-2006, 05:00 PM
Our pitching cost us more than anything Joey did

WAY more.

mrfourni
10-27-2006, 05:38 PM
The Monday morning quarterbacks are continually bitching about runners getting thrown out at the plate, but no one ever mentions the extra runs that scored that would not have scored with a more conservative coach. I'm fine with being aggressive. The LAST thing you want is a coach who never gets anyone thrown out.


I've never had a problem with aggressiveness. However, I think that sometimes Cora was aggressive at the wrong times, making bad baseball decisions, such as sending Konerko with no outs or even one out. When you watch the next player hit a fly ball it kind of pisses you off.

Ol' No. 2
10-27-2006, 05:56 PM
I've never had a problem with aggressiveness. However, I think that sometimes Cora was aggressive at the wrong times, making bad baseball decisions, such as sending Konerko with no outs or even one out. When you watch the next player hit a fly ball it kind of pisses you off.IIRC, in the one everyone bitched about, he sent Konerko with two outs. Regardless, though, if you're going to be aggressive, every once in a while you're going to overdo it a bit and wind up looking silly. That's the way it goes. They're more than offset by the ones that score that otherwise wouldn't have, but people never notice those. I've got no problem with Joey Cora. Given a choice, I'd much rather have him err on the side of being too aggressive than too conservative.

dickallen15
10-27-2006, 06:11 PM
IIRC, in the one everyone bitched about, he sent Konerko with two outs. Regardless, though, if you're going to be aggressive, every once in a while you're going to overdo it a bit and wind up looking silly. That's the way it goes. They're more than offset by the ones that score that otherwise wouldn't have, but people never notice those. I've got no problem with Joey Cora. Given a choice, I'd much rather have him err on the side of being too aggressive than too conservative.
There's a difference between aggressiveness and stupidity. Having slow footed runners thrown out by 30 feet at homeplate with 0 or 1 out with your big hitters coming to bat isn't being aggressive. I agree a thirdbase coach must be aggressive, but Cora crossed that line IMO. There were far too many thrown out at the plate, and most of the time it was an easy play that wasn't even close. Shines will be aggressive, and some will be tossed out. Hopefully he will be able to make better decisions, and remember that occassionally a major leaguer can make a decent throw to the plate.

Hitmen77
10-27-2006, 06:13 PM
IIRC, in the one everyone bitched about, he sent Konerko with two outs. Regardless, though, if you're going to be aggressive, every once in a while you're going to overdo it a bit and wind up looking silly. That's the way it goes. They're more than offset by the ones that score that otherwise wouldn't have, but people never notice those. I've got no problem with Joey Cora. Given a choice, I'd much rather have him err on the side of being too aggressive than too conservative.

I disagree that anyone who is unhappy with Cora's job at 3B is "bitching about it".

I don't believe the job is so black-and-white that we have to choose between someone who gets runners thrown out by a mile and someone who is too conservative.

dickallen15
10-27-2006, 06:17 PM
I disagree that anyone who is unhappy with Cora's job at 3B is "bitching about it".

I don't believe the job is so black-and-white that we have to choose between someone who gets runners thrown out by a mile and someone who is too conservative.
You're right. The fact of the matter is if the White Sox were happy with the decisions Joey makes at 3B, they wouldn't be moving him into the dugout.

Daver
10-27-2006, 06:25 PM
If Razor Shines is the replacement for Cora, it is probably more a move to get him away from the minor league players than anything else, he is not well liked.

chaerulez
10-27-2006, 06:44 PM
Where's that one poster that said there was no doubt that the new member of the coaching staff was going to be a Spanish speaker, because that's what Ozzie wants and for some reason Ozzie has something against people that don't speak Spanish. Man, that sure turned out to be right on.

chaerulez
10-27-2006, 06:48 PM
If Razor Shines is the replacement for Cora, it is probably more a move to get him away from the minor league players than anything else, he is not well liked.

Any specific reason for that? Is he just one of those managers that are difficult to get along with? How did he get promoted if he has a reputation of not being well liked? Do the White Sox think his coaching talents would outweight any negatives? Sorry for all the questions, but I know almost next to nothing about this guy and am curious.

Daver
10-27-2006, 07:34 PM
Any specific reason for that? Is he just one of those managers that are difficult to get along with? How did he get promoted if he has a reputation of not being well liked? Do the White Sox think his coaching talents would outweight any negatives? Sorry for all the questions, but I know almost next to nothing about this guy and am curious.


Razor is kind of an abrasive personality type guy, who has had some success with low minor league players (low A, high A, etc.) but his act grows thin on players in AAA, a lot of whom have accepted being career minor leaguers, they tune out his my way or the highway approach. Razor is a lot like Doug Rader, if you remember him.

soxwon
10-27-2006, 07:37 PM
Did Razor Shines ever have a baseball card?
Anyone Know?

Grzegorz
10-27-2006, 09:32 PM
The Bench Coach is the Manager's extra eyes and ears on the game. He will make suggestions to the Manager about possible pitching changes or pinch hitters or will notice things the Manager will miss because one person cannot see everything that is taking place on the field. He also keeps the grass supply fresh in case the First or Third baseman for the other team gets too close to the dugout chasing a flyball.:wink:

Great; if he doesn't get our players killed by running into sure outs at the plate, he'll surely get them killed by misjudging their proximity to fixed objects. :D:

Brian26
10-27-2006, 10:09 PM
Did Razor Shines ever have a baseball card?
Anyone Know?

Yes, he definitely did. He played more than a few years in the NL in the early 90s.

mrwag
10-28-2006, 10:50 AM
I wouldn't think that the organization would reward someone who wasn't liked or incompetent with a promotion. There's got to be more to it than just getting him away from people who dislike him.

As far as Joey is concerned, we won a World Series with him coaching third. Obviously he helped do something right.

Lip Man 1
10-28-2006, 11:21 AM
I echo Daver's comments. I remember reading I think here a few years ago from posters who lived in the Charlotte area about him. I think one wrote that Kenny Williams had to make a visit to see what was going on regarding him and the team.

I was going to post this earlier but Daver beat me to it. Given the reports about him I was very surprised when he got the position.

Lip

ondafarm
10-28-2006, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't think that the organization would reward someone who was . . . incompetent with a promotion. . .

Hold it right there Mister!! While several people have said Razor is not well-liked, nobody has said he's incompetent. Quite the opposite. He is a very skilled and competent. I know I've heard Ozzie quotes about how amazed he is that Razor got great results with how little talent he had to work with.

FedEx227
10-28-2006, 02:19 PM
Hold it right there Mister!! While several people have said Razor is not well-liked, nobody has said he's incompetent. Quite the opposite. He is a very skilled and competent. I know I've heard Ozzie quotes about how amazed he is that Razor got great results with how little talent he had to work with.

:LTP
AAYYE!!!

jabrch
10-28-2006, 05:53 PM
But coach, those are all AAA teams.

I don't know much about Shines other than what I have read of his performance as a minor league manager, but I do know that not having Joey at 3B can't hurt us. Joey gets bench experience. Ozzie has someone he trusts sitting next to him, and Razor gets a promotion. Win/Win/Win as far as I am concerned.

jabrch
10-28-2006, 05:55 PM
I wouldn't think that the organization would reward someone who wasn't liked or incompetent with a promotion. There's got to be more to it than just getting him away from people who dislike him.

As far as Joey is concerned, we won a World Series with him coaching third. Obviously he helped do something right.

I'm not sure which of those statements makes less sense.

The first one is ridiculous. The second one is illogical.

Soxfest
10-30-2006, 11:55 AM
Never liked Cora as a player or coach.......Get rid of Raines but keep Cora makes no sense at all.

bluestar
10-30-2006, 01:59 PM
I echo Daver's comments. I remember reading I think here a few years ago from posters who lived in the Charlotte area about him. I think one wrote that Kenny Williams had to make a visit to see what was going on regarding him and the team.

I was going to post this earlier but Daver beat me to it. Given the reports about him I was very surprised when he got the position.

Lip

2006 was Shines' first year in Charlotte. In 2004-2005, he was the manager in Birmingham, and prior to that he was the manager of the Winston-Salem team. Before that, I think he managed the Kannapolis team. He has been in the White Sox organization for several years. I believe the problems you are referring to occurred at either Winston-Salem or Kannapolis. I never heard the entire story, but there was a rumor circulating that several of the players were upset and thought Shines was too much of a tyrant. The report I read (I tried to find a link to it, but couldn't) said that Williams had gone to North Carolina to see what was going on.

Shines was named Manager of the Year in the Southern League when he was in Birmingham, and he led both Birmingham and Winston-Salem to division championships, if I remember correctly. I would assume (hope?) whatever problems he had with his team earlier are behind him now. He has been a winner at pretty much every level to this point.

maurice
10-30-2006, 04:08 PM
KW apparently likes Razor, since he consistently promotes him within the system. He's a very hands-on, small-ball type of manager, who expects all of his players to be able to handle the bat and run the bases. He puts on a lot of bunts, hit-and-runs, double steals, etc., even with the middle-of-the-order hitters. I'm sure some of his players don't like that, but KW and Ozzie probably do.

OTOH, Razor always talks players up in the media. He sounds like Sparky Anderson. Every mediocre OF prospect is the next Mays or Mantle.

Oldschoolsoxguy
10-30-2006, 04:26 PM
Regarding Cora moving to the bench...me thinks not having him at 3rd will be a good thing.You wanna take a chance and get aggressive with Pods,or
Iguchi,or Ozuna that's one thing.But with Paulie,or AJ or any of the other battleships trying to score on balls hit DIRECTLY AT THE OUTFIELDERS WHO ARE CHARGING IN IS DOWNRIGHT STUPID,especially with less than two outs.:mad:

Wsoxmike59
11-01-2006, 07:57 PM
Joey Cora was the worst 3B coach I saw as far as sending runners home. The previous poster (oldschool) hit the nail on the head about which guys Cora sent home and were out from here to Kankakee as Ed Farmer would say.

There's a difference between being aggressive and being dumb. Cora was more from the latter category.

Razor Shines should be a step up in the 3B coaching box, the Sox couldn't do worse if they had hired Wavin' Wendell Kim the former Cubs windmill impersonator in the 3B coaching box.

P.S. since the Sox pulled the outfield fences in some 15-17 feet down the lines, it's not an automatic decision sending runners home when the ball gets to the OF wall. There's a lot less space for the ball to rattle around down in the corners and it's a much shorter throw to the cut off man than it was in years past with the OF'er playing more shallow.

Cora must've been thinking about HIS playing days when the park had more spacious dimensions. Back then if the ball rolled to the wall or found a gap you could send runners home from first. Now you have to pretty much have to anticipate a pretty close play at home because of the smaller dimensions. You have to factor in the speed of the runner, the strength of the fielder's arm and the length of the throw to the plate.

Cora failed miserably on all those points last year...IMHO.