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View Full Version : Charlie Haeger:the next Wakefield?


Cuck_The_Fubs
10-21-2006, 05:01 PM
I don't know about you guys, but when Charlie Haeger came back for the fall call-ups, i was super impressed with him. Considering the fact that he was basically better than anyone on our staff at the time (besides Garcia, who went on a hot streak), he really impressed me. I really hope he pitches for us soon, and that we keep this kid. Anyone else agree or would like to add to this?

zmz723
10-21-2006, 05:10 PM
"The bears are what we thought they were, who we, what we thought they were.....Now, if you wanna crown them, then crown their ass....And we let 'em off the hook!":angry:

:tealtutor:

Cuck_The_Fubs
10-21-2006, 05:16 PM
thank's

chaerulez
10-21-2006, 05:39 PM
Wakefield is pretty average in my book, I think Haeger's ceiling is higher.

DumpJerry
10-21-2006, 05:48 PM
Both Wakefield and Charlie Hough who saw him when the Sox were in Anahiem said he is fantastic.

Good enough for me. Just don't use him in dry air conditions. I saw him in one of the last games of the season when he pitched bother sides of a rain delay and that moist air had his ball dancing more the Fred Astaire. I was sitting right by Home, so I had a good look at his pitches.

samram
10-21-2006, 06:03 PM
Wakefield is pretty average in my book, I think Haeger's ceiling is higher.

Yeah, but when Wakefield first came up, he was pretty damn good. He was 8-1 with a 3.44 as a rookie and in 1995 he was 16-8 with a 2.95. I hope Chuck can get close to that.

jabrch
10-21-2006, 06:24 PM
He looked awesome in some outings, and got pounded in others. That's typical of a knuckleballer. I hope he can be our long guy next year.

oeo
10-21-2006, 07:03 PM
AJ needs to get some practice in with him. If he's going to be in our bullpen, then our catcher needs to be able to catch the ball.

White Sox Randy
10-22-2006, 10:16 AM
Would that excite you if he was ?

Has Wakefield had a better career than Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland or Vazquez ?

Wakefield is ok but I could only get excited about Haeger if he were better than that.

jabrch
10-22-2006, 10:24 AM
Would that excite you if he was ?

Has Wakefield had a better career than Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland or Vazquez ?

Wakefield is ok but I could only get excited about Haeger if he were better than that.


First off, he doesn't have to have had a better career than those guys to be great. Those are some great pitchers there.

Second, Wake has a 4.30 ERA in a 14 year career, most of it in Boston, a very hitter friendly park. He's durable and dependable.

Yes, I'd love to have a Tim Wakefield on my roster for 10 years. 7 seasons he had a 4.25 or less ERA. I'd take that in the middle/back end of my rotation at least for a low price for 3-6 years. Wouldn't you?

ondafarm
10-22-2006, 10:41 AM
Having a good knuckleballer on your staff provides several advantages.

1) Facing a knuckleballer one day and a flameballer the next really disrupts any hitter's timing. While hopefully Haeger will win his game for us, he will also help win the next game in the rotation for us as well.

2) During every season, each team gets in some tight pitching spots, a forced doubleheader, twenty games without a day off, hour and a half rain delay, etc. Knuckleballers generally don't care about any of that stuff. Wilbur Wood started both games of doubleheaders occasionaly.

3) Knuckleballers tend to give the bullpen a lot of rest. They can go out there and keep you in a game for eight or nine innings.

All of these tend to make knuckleballers a little vulnerable to higher ERAs and not quite as good records. Knuckleballer generally hate domes as well.

I expect Haeger will be on the major league roster next year.

lumpyspun
10-22-2006, 01:26 PM
Does anyone know of any pitchers that ever used a knuckleball in their regular repetoire? Like a regular pitcher who has a fastball, curve, etc. but also threw a knuckle. How come that doesn't happen more often? Can you imagine a dude with a decent knuckler who could then throw 94 on the next pitch...

ondafarm
10-22-2006, 02:06 PM
Does anyone know of any pitchers that ever used a knuckleball in their regular repetoire? Like a regular pitcher who has a fastball, curve, etc. but also threw a knuckle. How come that doesn't happen more often? Can you imagine a dude with a decent knuckler who could then throw 94 on the next pitch...

I can't imagine a pitcher like that. Most guys who learn the knuckleball were washouts in the minors, good, typically smart guys who knew the art of pitching but couldn't bring a 94 mph heater. Then they met someone, at a bar or in the dugout after getting rocked, who says "Ever consider throwing a knuckleball?" It typically takes four or five years after that day for them to get to the majors for anything longer than a cup of coffee.

INSox56
10-22-2006, 03:13 PM
I also think his ceiling is higher than wakefield's. Wakefield doesn't throw all that hard when he has to pitch a fastball. Haeger's fastball is in the high 80s if I remember right, so that's much more of a difference in pitch speed than Wakefield's got.

Frater Perdurabo
10-22-2006, 03:33 PM
Knuckleballer generally hate domes as well.

Can you explain this in a bit more detail? Does the faster play on grounders hurt them more? Or is it the lack of wind and different air pressure? Or a combination of both?

I'd love for Haeger to be in the bullpen as the long man in 2007.

If the starter gets rocked, bring in Haeger. He might also get rocked, in which case you bring in someone else. But more often than not he will succeed and could pitch a bunch of innings. The best part is, he could come back the next day and do it all over again. This really would help out the rest of the bullpen.

This is an honest question: do we think Ozzie would know how to utilize Haeger out of the pen? Would Ozzie leave him in for long stretches (provided he's effective)? Or would he slavishly micromanage Haeger for lefty/lefty and righty/righty matchups like he does with the rest of the pen?

One last question tangential to Haeger: has there ever been an effective left-handed kncukleballer in the majors?

thomas35forever
10-22-2006, 03:38 PM
If he really works at it, he has some potential. I'm pulling for him.

October26
10-22-2006, 04:15 PM
Having a good knuckleballer on your staff provides several advantages.

1) Facing a knuckleballer one day and a flameballer the next really disrupts any hitter's timing. While hopefully Haeger will win his game for us, he will also help win the next game in the rotation for us as well.

2) During every season, each team gets in some tight pitching spots, a forced doubleheader, twenty games without a day off, hour and a half rain delay, etc. Knuckleballers generally don't care about any of that stuff. Wilbur Wood started both games of doubleheaders occasionaly.

3) Knuckleballers tend to give the bullpen a lot of rest. They can go out there and keep you in a game for eight or nine innings.

All of these tend to make knuckleballers a little vulnerable to higher ERAs and not quite as good records. Knuckleballer generally hate domes as well.

I expect Haeger will be on the major league roster next year.

You make some excellent points. I remember Wilbur Wood from when I was a kid and it was fun to go to the old Comiskey Park and see him pitch. Wilbur did lose alot of games and when the knuckleball was off, it was usually a disaster. I'm also pulling for the kid Haeger hoping that he can make the mlb roster in '07.

samram
10-22-2006, 04:24 PM
First off, he doesn't have to have had a better career than those guys to be great. Those are some great pitchers there.

Second, Wake has a 4.30 ERA in a 14 year career, most of it in Boston, a very hitter friendly park. He's durable and dependable.

Yes, I'd love to have a Tim Wakefield on my roster for 10 years. 7 seasons he had a 4.25 or less ERA. I'd take that in the middle/back end of my rotation at least for a low price for 3-6 years. Wouldn't you?

I would. Plus he just gives you flexibility if you have to go to your pen early in consecutive games.

veeter
10-22-2006, 05:19 PM
I think Haeger is going to be a big reason the Sox return to the World Series next year.

Domeshot17
10-22-2006, 05:57 PM
I think within 3 years we will talk about Heager in the same breath we talk about Buehlre and Garland. I think he will be the long man and really have a shot at the rotation. We need to get a catcher who can teach AJ to catch and call the game.

Frater- Don't know if I want this tealed or not, but to answer 1 of your questions, why worry about Ozzie using Charlie in the right spots, he doesnt with anyone else :rolleyes:

ondafarm
10-22-2006, 06:15 PM
Can you explain this in a bit more detail? Does the faster play on grounders hurt them more? Or is it the lack of wind and different air pressure? Or a combination of both?

I'd love for Haeger to be in the bullpen as the long man in 2007.

If the starter gets rocked, bring in Haeger. He might also get rocked, in which case you bring in someone else. But more often than not he will succeed and could pitch a bunch of innings. The best part is, he could come back the next day and do it all over again. This really would help out the rest of the bullpen.

This is an honest question: do we think Ozzie would know how to utilize Haeger out of the pen? Would Ozzie leave him in for long stretches (provided he's effective)? Or would he slavishly micromanage Haeger for lefty/lefty and righty/righty matchups like he does with the rest of the pen?

One last question tangential to Haeger: has there ever been an effective left-handed kncukleballer in the majors?

A knuckleballer throws the ball and assumes the seams on the ball will catch wind currents moving the ball around. I've always heard knuckleballers say that their ball moves best when the wind is blowing into their face. That is one condition that domes (unless they put the air conditioner's blowers on) virtually rule out.

Your point about the fast infield also has some creedence. Nobody gets a good swing on a good k-ball so you get lots of squibs and that will mean a lot of groundballs squirting through. I don't know if this is more than any other kind of pitcher though.


As for will Ozzie know how to use Haeger in relief, I think that's an open question. Ozzie obviously didn't know how to utilize Takatsu, but I hope he has better usage of Haeger.



Wilbur Wood was a lefty (IIRC).

Grzegorz
10-22-2006, 06:24 PM
My concern with Haeger lies in whether or not he can get people out. If runner get on base there could be trouble in the form of successful steals against the Chicago White Sox.

I tend to be cautiously optimistic about Charlie Haeger...

Go Tigers!!!!

DSpivack
10-22-2006, 08:31 PM
A knuckleballer throws the ball and assumes the seams on the ball will catch wind currents moving the ball around. I've always heard knuckleballers say that their ball moves best when the wind is blowing into their face. That is one condition that domes (unless they put the air conditioner's blowers on) virtually rule out.
to utilize Takatsu, but I hope he has better usage of Haeger.

Wilbur Wood was a lefty (IIRC).

Does a knuckleball not have any spin on it?

I am too young to remember but Baseball Reference says Wood (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/woodwi01.shtml)was a lefty, and I trust them pretty well.

Big Sandwich
10-22-2006, 08:48 PM
I don't know about you guys, but when Charlie Haeger came back for the fall call-ups, i was super impressed with him. Considering the fact that he was basically better than anyone on our staff at the time (besides Garcia, who went on a hot streak), he really impressed me. I really hope he pitches for us soon, and that we keep this kid. Anyone else agree or would like to add to this?

Id be happy with Haeger if we can find a suitable catcher who can catch knuckleballs. I recall thats the major issue with Boston because i wanna say Veritek has major issues tryin to grab 'em

Also as mentioned the issue of baserunning, we saw how bad it hurt the sox when Garcia was on the mound...

duke of dorwood
10-22-2006, 08:51 PM
About every 15 years a knuckelballer arrives and has moderate effectiveness, and Haeger could be the one

skottyj242
10-24-2006, 02:53 PM
I don't know about you guys, but when Charlie Haeger came back for the fall call-ups, i was super impressed with him. Considering the fact that he was basically better than anyone on our staff at the time (besides Garcia, who went on a hot streak), he really impressed me. I really hope he pitches for us soon, and that we keep this kid. Anyone else agree or would like to add to this?


I'm big pro Haeger.

Lip Man 1
10-24-2006, 04:49 PM
A knuckleball actually does spin however it only should rotate two or three times on the way to the plate. Knuckleballs are most effective when being thrown into a breeze which acts with the stitches and causes it to move erractically.

And yes...Wilbur was a lefty. Hoyt Wilhelm and Eddie Fisher the other two great Sox knuckleball pitchers were right handed.

If you want more info on the knuckleball...how to throw it and more importantly how to catch one, try reading the Wood, Ed Herrmann and J.C. Martin interviews at WSI.

Lip

Big Sandwich
10-24-2006, 04:59 PM
A knuckleball actually does spin however it only should rotate two or three times on the way to the plate. Knuckleballs are most effective when being thrown into a breeze which acts with the stitches and causes it to move erractically.

And yes...Wilbur was a lefty. Hoyt Wilhelm and Eddie Fisher the other two great Sox knuckleball pitchers were right handed.

If you want more info on the knuckleball...how to throw it and more importantly how to catch one, try reading the Wood, Ed Herrmann and J.C. Martin interviews at WSI.

Lip


Theyre effective as long as you dont have Ted Williams at the plate :tongue:

CubsfansareDRUNK
10-24-2006, 05:20 PM
Haegar will decide his own fate. Weather or not Ozzie mismanages him (which i'm assuming he will), is not that important. The way I see it is, as long as Haegar keeps the walks down, I think he'll be a great knuckleballer.

AZChiSoxFan
10-25-2006, 05:22 PM
I can't imagine a pitcher like that. Most guys who learn the knuckleball were washouts in the minors, good, typically smart guys who knew the art of pitching but couldn't bring a 94 mph heater. Then they met someone, at a bar or in the dugout after getting rocked, who says "Ever consider throwing a knuckleball?" It typically takes four or five years after that day for them to get to the majors for anything longer than a cup of coffee.

I think this is accurate (not that I would even know) but for some reason it also strikes me as really funny. I guess I just have this picture in my head of some guy with an ERA in the minors of about 14.00 knowing that his days of playing ball are just about done. He's cozied up to the bar and he's pretty much drunk. Then some guy comes along and suggests throwing the knuckler. 5 years later he's in the bigs. Great stuff.

esbrechtel
10-25-2006, 06:02 PM
I'm big pro Haeger.

me too...he really impressed me on a few occasions and i get a laugh every time i watch AJ try and catch it :D:

ondafarm
10-25-2006, 08:34 PM
Theyre effective as long as you dont have Ted Williams at the plate :tongue:

You're thinking of the Effus pitch.