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View Full Version : The Gyroball: Miracle or myth?


Fenway
10-18-2006, 03:59 PM
A new pitch??? :rolleyes:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/289073_gyroball18.html



But as American suitors, likely including the Mariners, court Japanese superstar right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka this winter, expect to start hearing about the mystery pitch that might be in Matsuzaka's repertoire, but then again might exist only in legend and computer models.
"It's kind of like an inside joke for baseball, except it's actually real," said Will Carroll, a columnist for Baseball Prospectus who has been chasing the legend of the gyroball since running across an obscure Japanese book in 2002.

DoItForDanPasqua
10-18-2006, 04:04 PM
I'm hungry, I could go for a gyroball right now.

TaylorStSox
10-18-2006, 10:20 PM
Is it pronounced "you-roh" ball or "gy-roh" ball?

MUsoxfan
10-18-2006, 10:40 PM
Mmmmm.....

http://www.gussdrivein.com/images/gyro_neon.gif

Myrtle72
10-18-2006, 11:04 PM
A new pitch??? :rolleyes:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/289073_gyroball18.html



I like that you always find cool articles for me to read. :cool:

thomas35forever
10-18-2006, 11:21 PM
Not since the wacky pitches of Rick Vaughn has Major League Baseball seen the likes of this.

caulfield12
10-19-2006, 08:02 AM
Even worse, Rookie of the Year with that kid pitching for the Cubs with the transplanted elbow...man, that was awful.

Little Big League was ten times better...the only thing that made it frustrating was that the Twins were part of it.

DSpivack
10-19-2006, 02:15 PM
I've read that the gyroball does exist...except it's not thrown by Matsuzaka.

SBSoxFan
10-20-2006, 08:11 AM
I think someone posted a video from youtube in what's the score about this.

here it is, thanks to lumpyspun:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sboi0EWp8ao

CLR01
10-20-2006, 12:37 PM
I think someone posted a video from youtube in what's the score about this.

here it is, thanks to lumpyspun:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sboi0EWp8ao


That doesn't even come close to what the article is suggesting the pitch will do.

Norberto7
10-20-2006, 01:47 PM
The problem I see with the "gyroball" is the spin. The graphic shows the ball is supposed to spin like a bullet. Well, the purpose of the spin on the bullet is to have a straighter, more predictable shot. If it spins like a bullet, why would it curve unlike a bullet?

Unless it is somehow thrown to the side and allowed to come back, I'm not so sure that makes sense.

Paulwny
10-20-2006, 01:49 PM
The problem I see with the "gyroball" is the spin. The graphic shows the ball is supposed to spin like a bullet. Well, the purpose of the spin on the bullet is to have a straighter, more predictable shot. If it spins like a bullet, why would it curve unlike a bullet?

Unless it is somehow thrown to the side and allowed to come back, I'm not so sure that makes sense.

The seams on the ball vs a smooth bullet.

Ol' No. 2
10-20-2006, 02:57 PM
The seams on the ball vs a smooth bullet.There's more to it than that. Spin is imparted to a bullet to keep it from tumbling. It works like a gyroscope, keeping the bullet straight as it flies through the air.

A spinning baseball curves because air is trapped in a boundary layer around the ball, and the air in the boundary layer spins with the ball. Because the ball is in motion, the air in the boundary layer encounters the surrounding air, creating a higher pressure on the side that's moving in the direction of motion of the ball (thus encountering the surrounding air at a higher velocity). A ball with topspin has higher pressure on top of the ball, creating a downward break (a 12-6 curve). If the spin is at a different angle, the direction of break also changes. But in all cases, the plane of rotation is in the direction of travel (i.e. if we compare it to the Earth, the equator would be in the direction of travel and the poles would be sticking out perpendicular to the direction of travel).

The gyroball, if I understand it correctly, has a completely different spin plane (i.e. the poles are pointing in the direction of travel and not perpendicular to it). With this motion, there pressure is the same on all sides of the ball. I don't see how it breaks at all.

Iwritecode
10-20-2006, 03:19 PM
The gyroball, if I understand it correctly, has a completely different spin plane (i.e. the poles are pointing in the direction of travel and not perpendicular to it). With this motion, there pressure is the same on all sides of the ball. I don't see how it breaks at all.

I agree.

It's like a football, which doesn't curve at all...

Norberto7
10-20-2006, 03:22 PM
The gyroball, if I understand it correctly, has a completely different spin plane (i.e. the poles are pointing in the direction of travel and not perpendicular to it). With this motion, there pressure is the same on all sides of the ball. I don't see how it breaks at all.

Exactly, the only way I can see it would work is if it was thrown somewhat off to a side (third base for a righty) and allowed to break back; but it just doesn't seem you'd be able to get enough of a velocity component in that direction to cause the "feet, not inches" of break...unless you could somehow impart massive amounts of spin to the ball.

CaptainBallz
10-20-2006, 04:05 PM
It sounds like a load of hooey to me. If there's a break measured in feet, there would be absolutley no reason to swing at the thing because a) for it to be a strike it would have to basically start on a path going behind the batter (RHP vs. RHB)
b) it would be near impossible to be accurate enough to find the strike zone c) any ball that even remotely looks like a normal pitch that could go for a strike would instead dive outside resulting in the oh-so-embarrasing wild pitch

With all that said, I do think someone should contact the "Mythbusters" about this one.

CLR01
10-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Despite what the scientist say I believe that if someone tried to throw this thing their elbow (and maybe the shoulder) would immediately turn to jello. I want to see someone try it just to see if I am right.

Huisj
10-20-2006, 04:29 PM
The other day, Fox one of their high resolution replays of a Billy Wagner slider, and interestingly enough, it was spinning sort of like a football (the axis of rotation was somewhat in line with the path from pitcher to batter). It broke like a normal slider always does.

The article really doesn't seem to make any sense to me. They describe the spin being like that of a football, but then they also show it and talk about it as being in the opposite direction as that of a football--that's when they talk about the screwball motion. And yet, in the diagram, they show it breaking in the traditional direction of a slider. In Wagner's slider release, he was clearly cutting the ball along the outside of the ball to put that spin on it. However, the article somehow talks about cutting on the inside of the ball, and says it'll break the same way? I don't get it. This makes no sense.

EndemicSox
10-20-2006, 04:53 PM
Daisuke Matsuzaka is going to be a stud, hopefully he ends up in Seattle...

Clembasbal
10-20-2006, 05:20 PM
The other day, Fox one of their high resolution replays of a Billy Wagner slider, and interestingly enough, it was spinning sort of like a football (the axis of rotation was somewhat in line with the path from pitcher to batter). It broke like a normal slider always does.

The article really doesn't seem to make any sense to me. They describe the spin being like that of a football, but then they also show it and talk about it as being in the opposite direction as that of a football--that's when they talk about the screwball motion. And yet, in the diagram, they show it breaking in the traditional direction of a slider. In Wagner's slider release, he was clearly cutting the ball along the outside of the ball to put that spin on it. However, the article somehow talks about cutting on the inside of the ball, and says it'll break the same way? I don't get it. This makes no sense.

When I coach, I don't allow my baseball players (ages 10-13) to throw breaking pitches...but recently I have found that if you throw a baseball like a fastball but hold it like a football, it has tremendous break and you don't turn your elbow or wrist, so the only harm you are doing is the same as throwing a fastball.

Clembasbal
10-20-2006, 05:21 PM
I think someone posted a video from youtube in what's the score about this.

here it is, thanks to lumpyspun:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sboi0EWp8ao


Did anyone else notice that he is striking out Tadahito Iguchi?

Clembasbal
10-20-2006, 05:42 PM
Supposedly the one kid who was taught by "The Master" on how to throw the pitch...Joey Neizer a HS kid in Indiana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4R8rYkUWE

Here is a slow one upclose that shows motion or arm and ball...
LINK (http://www.rotoauthority.com/2005/10/daisuke_matsuza.html)...click "Download gyroball video"

Clembasbal
10-20-2006, 05:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70mZCrAhtKY&mode=related&search=

This one looks like a fast slider, but there is a lot of movement...especially when it is slowed down and replayed after the second pitch.

EndemicSox
10-21-2006, 12:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70mZCrAhtKY&mode=related&search=

This one looks like a fast slider, but there is a lot of movement...especially when it is slowed down and replayed after the second pitch.

Oh my, that pitch is unhittable, pony up the cash JR! He will win 20...

esbrechtel
10-21-2006, 10:01 AM
a agree it looks like a slider....i think the jury is still out on this one, id like a better opportunity to see it

ondafarm
10-21-2006, 05:35 PM
The gyroball does not break like a slider, at least no slider that I've ever seen.

It comes with two rotations on it, the initial one that the batter picks up and a second one which subsequently overpowers the fading first one and makes the pitch appear to change direction. Only thing to do is move to the front of the box and hit it before that second break takes full effect. Of course, you are then vulnerable to fastballs.