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View Full Version : Sox to make a strong bid for D Matsuzaka


Whitesox4ever
10-18-2006, 01:17 PM
According to Bergen Record


The Cubs (who are expected to increase payroll by up to 15 percent from $96 million in 2006), Yankees, Mariners, White Sox, Mets and Dodgers are all mulling strong bids for Japanese right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka after the World Series.

getonbckthr
10-18-2006, 01:22 PM
How much will it cost us? If its like 13 -15 million I would assume 2 starters would go. What would u prefer Garcia/Vasquez or Matsuzaka and Mccarthy? Also if we sign Matsuzaka would that possible open a door to a Garcia and one of Burls, Contreras and Vasquez for Arod deal whether it would be straight up or of a 3 team variety?

Flight #24
10-18-2006, 01:30 PM
Revised dream scenario

1) Sign Matsuzaka
2) Trade Garcia+Crede to the Yanks for ARod
3) Trade Vazquez+Broadway to the Rays for Crawford
4) Trade Uribe for a reliever or a AA pitching prospect
5) Sign Speier

Rotation: Garland-Contreras-Buehrle-McCarthy-Matsuzaka
'Pen: Jenks-Thornton-MacDougal-????-Speier-Haeger (Cotts in AAA)
Order: Crawford(LF)-Iguchi(2B)-ARod(SS)-Thome(DH)-Dye(RF)-Konerko(1B)-AJ(C)-Fields(3B)-Anderson(CF)
Bench: Mack(3B/1B/LF), Ozuna(LF/3B), Cintron(2B/SS), Stewart(C), Sweeney(OF) / Gload(1B)

Won't happen, but nice to dream about. The key step is probably determining what the additional revenues from Japanese marketing/merchandise/tourists are. If you figure you can sign him at say $1-2M more than Garcia/Vazquez make now and need a 4-yr deal, then the simple math becomes:
(4 years of extra revenues) - ($4-8M salary differential) = posting fee

skottyj242
10-18-2006, 01:48 PM
Rumors I've seen are a posting fee of maybe $20-25M (or higher) and then it'll take a contract somewhere in the $10-15M/yr over 4-5yrs range to sign him. However, he's only 26 and is supposedly of similar quality to any of the FA guys this year (like Zito). And there's always the Ichiro factor where the team that signs him will reap significant publicity in Japan. That last thing is the main reason why I could see the Sox making a play for him.

But realistically, I think it'll go to the Yanks, Mets, or maybe BoSox, who can probably afford to outbid on the posting fee. However, it would be kind of an ideal scenario to get this guy and then turn around and trade 2 of Garcia/Buehrle/Vazquez for prospects, relief help, or ARod.

1) Sign Matsuzaka
2) Trade Garcia+Crede to the Yanks for ARod
3) Trade Vazquez to the Mets for Milledge & Heilman
4) Sign Speier & Dave Roberts

Rotation: Garland-Contreras-Buehrle-McCarthy-Matsuzaka
'Pen: Jenks-Thornton-MacDougal-Heilman-Speier-Haeger (Cotts in AAA)
Order: Roberts(LF)-Iguchi(2B)-ARod(SS)-Thome(DH)-Dye(RF)-Konerko(1B)-AJ(C)-Fields(3B)-Anderson(CF)
Bench: Mack(3B/1B/LF), Ozuna(LF/3B), Cintron(2B/SS), Stewart(C), Sweeney(OF) / Gload(1B)


As long as Ross is still on the team it's cool with me.

batmanZoSo
10-18-2006, 01:57 PM
I know not this Matsuzaka. But if he's glorious and excellent, then please get him.

samram
10-18-2006, 02:01 PM
Rumors I've seen are a posting fee of maybe $20-25M (or higher) and then it'll take a contract somewhere in the $10-15M/yr over 4-5yrs range to sign him. However, he's only 26 and is supposedly of similar quality to any of the FA guys this year (like Zito). And there's always the Ichiro factor where the team that signs him will reap significant publicity in Japan. That last thing is the main reason why I could see the Sox making a play for him.

But realistically, I think it'll go to the Yanks, Mets, or maybe BoSox, who can probably afford to outbid on the posting fee. However, it would be kind of an ideal scenario to get this guy and then turn around and trade 2 of Garcia/Buehrle/Vazquez for prospects, relief help, or ARod.

1) Sign Matsuzaka
2) Trade Garcia+Crede to the Yanks for ARod
3) Trade Vazquez to the Mets for Milledge & Heilman
4) Sign Speier & Dave Roberts

Rotation: Garland-Contreras-Buehrle-McCarthy-Matsuzaka
'Pen: Jenks-Thornton-MacDougal-Heilman-Speier-Haeger (Cotts in AAA)
Order: Roberts(LF)-Iguchi(2B)-ARod(SS)-Thome(DH)-Dye(RF)-Konerko(1B)-AJ(C)-Fields(3B)-Anderson(CF)
Bench: Mack(3B/1B/LF), Ozuna(LF/3B), Cintron(2B/SS), Stewart(C), Sweeney(OF) / Gload(1B)

I like that scenario and you haven't even dealt Uribe off that team yet for prospects or a lefty in the pen, etc. I'm not sure, however, that Vazquez gets you a set-up man and a top prospect.

the gooch
10-18-2006, 02:32 PM
i like it too, but please let there be a change to the bench.
i don't want mack, gload, ozuna, and cintron on the same bench.
too much money, too many infielders.

CashMan
10-18-2006, 02:41 PM
I agree with Flight #24. I heard the team in Japan wants 20mill just to talk to him, then there is his contract, which would be like 15mill or so. I have heard reports that he is the real deal though.

Gammons Peter
10-18-2006, 02:55 PM
tell me more about this "posting" fee. 20 mil just to talk?? If he doesnt sign are we out that money and if he does sign, does any of that money go towards the contract????

lumpyspun
10-18-2006, 02:55 PM
I could get used to watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sboi0EWp8ao

DSpivack
10-18-2006, 03:10 PM
tell me more about this "posting" fee. 20 mil just to talk?? If he doesnt sign are we out that money and if he does sign, does any of that money go towards the contract????

You have to pay a fee to the team as the player is not a free agent [to release him from his contract], then sign a contract with the player. The "posting" fee does not go towards the contract, as it goes towards the team and the player.

The Mariners acquired Ichiro this way, and he was the first to use this system; Kazu Ishii, Akinori Otsuka, Norihiro Nokumura, and Shinji Ori have since followed suit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_system

It is similar to soccer's transfer system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_fee

Gammons Peter
10-18-2006, 03:17 PM
Well then I don't see us being in this thing. Why not sign Zito ( a proven commodity) for half of what it will cost to get this guy.

PorkChopExpress
10-18-2006, 03:18 PM
I could get used to watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sboi0EWp8ao

What? Tadahito striking out?:tongue:

23Ventura
10-18-2006, 03:24 PM
I could get used to watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sboi0EWp8ao
I would love to see Matsuzaka on the Sox if he is as good as everyone says. I could get used to seeing that as well. (Matsuzaka on the Sox, not Iguchi striking out)

mjmcend
10-18-2006, 03:26 PM
I am willing to bet he ends up on the Mariners.

CashMan
10-18-2006, 03:26 PM
I don't see Zito getting any better, he has his curveball and that is about it. Since he won 20 gamesa few yrs back, he really has not done anything. It is just like the guy the Jays paid big money for, just because there was no one else in Free agency.

spiffie
10-18-2006, 04:15 PM
I don't see Zito getting any better, he has his curveball and that is about it. Since he won 20 gamesa few yrs back, he really has not done anything. It is just like the guy the Jays paid big money for, just because there was no one else in Free agency.
Zito 2003-2006: 55-46, 3.86 ERA.

In the last 4 years we have had 4 single seasons from pitchers with a lower ERA than Zito has put up over the last 4 seasons combined. Buehrle, Garland and Contreras in 2005 and Loaiza in 2003. That's it. If Zito were to pitch only as he has the last 4 years, he instantly becomes the #1 guy on this staff.

lumpyspun
10-18-2006, 04:44 PM
What? Tadahito striking out?:tongue:

Hhaha, that is hilarious. I was so enamored by the gyroball that I didn't even notice who he was striking out.

dickallen15
10-18-2006, 05:06 PM
I am willing to bet he ends up on the Mariners.
You're probably right. There have been a few reports that the Mariners would post $30 million. The talk in NY was that that was too rich for even the Yankees blood.

infohawk
10-18-2006, 05:20 PM
I could get used to watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sboi0EWp8ao
Is that Iguchi he's pitching too! I'm pretty sure it is. Speaking of, I wonder if Gooch can help us land this guy assuming all things are equal (money).

chaerulez
10-18-2006, 05:52 PM
I think the dark horse of the bidding will be the Cubs. KW might not bid as much as the rest because he already has a lot of starters (this is no way me saying he shouldn't, he should do everything to get this guy, I think this guy is going to be amazing) and the Sox payroll will stay around a figure of 100 million. The Cubs have already said they will increase payroll to around the 115 range, basically they will spend almost as much as the Mets. The Cubs are also deseperate for pitching. And this guy is a better option than Zito or Schmidt. Reports are the Cubs have scouted Japan heavily as of late. But this is just my thoughts, he'll probably end up going to the Yankees and I'll look stupid.

Hangar18
10-19-2006, 08:43 AM
This is the news Ive been waiting to hear. From what I hear, this guys the real deal and more importantly, hes YOUNG. This guy could easily replace Vazquez in the rotation. Having another major Japanese superstar will only make the SOX even MORE MARKETABLE ($$$$$$ Jerry) while making the SOX better on paper. I do not want that other team up north getting him. The SOX have a chance to get him at a significant discount because of Shingo and Iguchi.

samram
10-19-2006, 08:50 AM
This is the news Ive been waiting to hear. From what I hear, this guys the real deal and more importantly, hes YOUNG. This guy could easily replace Vazquez in the rotation. Having another major Japanese superstar will only make the SOX even MORE MARKETABLE ($$$$$$ Jerry) while making the SOX better on paper. I do not want that other team up north getting him. The SOX have a chance to get him at a significant discount because of Shingo and Iguchi.

When did he or his representatives say that? If they did, that would be fantastic.

Flight #24
10-19-2006, 09:22 AM
When did he or his representatives say that? If they did, that would be fantastic.

I'm pretty sure that's never been said. Just Hangar's wishful thinking. Mine too, but I don't expect it to happen.

Hangar18
10-19-2006, 09:28 AM
When did he or his representatives say that? If they did, that would be fantastic.


The SOX are widely believed to have an edge, because of Shingo and Iguchi having a favorable view of the organization. Its not a stretch to think this can also help in contract negotiations

ilsox7
10-19-2006, 09:37 AM
I'm pretty sure that's never been said. Just Hangar's wishful thinking. Mine too, but I don't expect it to happen.

Yea, until a quote is seen, it means nothing. Even then, the Sox would have to win the silent auction to have negotiating rights. One can hope, but it's unlikely given the amounts being whispered just to have negotiating rights.

the gooch
10-19-2006, 09:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL6dtl0ShCQ&NR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLAgxBHWNeM&NR

wow.

The Wimperoo
10-19-2006, 10:36 AM
I read this in an espn.com article earlier this week, but I don't have the link right now. I'll try to find it later. The article said that the team has to take the highest bid. So I can see the Yankees being crazy and posting a 30mil bid to secure him.

The Wimperoo
10-19-2006, 10:57 AM
I read this in an espn.com article earlier this week, but I don't have the link right now. I'll try to find it later. The article said that the team has to take the highest bid. So I can see the Yankees being crazy and posting a 30mil bid to secure him.

I went back to the forum where I read the article but there wasn't a link. Since I can't post the whole article here, I'll just post the excerpt I read. It's either the highest bidder or back to Japan.

The team that bids the highest will get exclusive negotiating rights with Matsuzaka for 30 days. If there is no deal within that window, the teamís buy-in is returned and Matsuzaka continues to play in Japan. Teams can begin bidding around Nov. 1.

caulfield12
10-19-2006, 12:04 PM
No way the White Sox bid $20-30 million.

Almost no way they sign Mussina, Schmidt, Zito, etc.

It's not their operating style...they almost always take underrated or underperforming pitchers with track records but recent struggles and hope to buy them on the low side instead of buying a pitcher at his peak value.

Even with Vazquez and Garcia cleared from the payroll (a big assumption), they would still be adding $10-15 million (w/ the bidding rights and yearly salary), and I'm 95% sure that's not going to happen.

White Sox Randy
10-19-2006, 12:37 PM
ISN'T HIS AGENT BORASS ?

If it is, there is no need to discuss this any further.

Ol' No. 2
10-19-2006, 12:54 PM
No way the White Sox bid $20-30 million.

Almost no way they sign Mussina, Schmidt, Zito, etc.

It's not their operating style...they almost always take underrated or underperforming pitchers with track records but recent struggles and hope to buy them on the low side instead of buying a pitcher at his peak value.

Even with Vazquez and Garcia cleared from the payroll (a big assumption), they would still be adding $10-15 million (w/ the bidding rights and yearly salary), and I'm 95% sure that's not going to happen.Finally someone talking sense. Not a snowball's chance in hell the Sox are going to cough up $20-30M and then sign a pitcher to a $40-50M contract.

skottyj242
10-19-2006, 12:59 PM
This is unreal, can't everyone just wait a year, isn't he totally free after this upcoming season?

Flight #24
10-19-2006, 02:18 PM
This is unreal, can't everyone just wait a year, isn't he totally free after this upcoming season?

No. Because all it takes is 1 team to bid $1 and if they're the highest bid, they get to negotiate with him. Plus, whoever gets the rights to do so has some leverage in contract renegotiations because his alternative to signing is returning to Japan (which he reportedly doesn't want to do). Once he's an FA, he can go the traditional Borass route and solicit multiple bids on his contract, call up the traditional "mystery team", etc.

Ol' No. 2
10-19-2006, 02:40 PM
No. Because all it takes is 1 team to bid $1 and if they're the highest bid, they get to negotiate with him. Plus, whoever gets the rights to do so has some leverage in contract renegotiations because his alternative to signing is returning to Japan (which he reportedly doesn't want to do). Once he's an FA, he can go the traditional Borass route and solicit multiple bids on his contract, call up the traditional "mystery team", etc.The posting fee will be large enough that the winning team will need to be able to get a multi-year deal. No team is going to cough up that much dough to get a 1-year contract out of it. He's not going to be a FA for at least 4 years.

Flight #24
10-19-2006, 03:23 PM
The posting fee will be large enough that the winning team will need to be able to get a multi-year deal. No team is going to cough up that much dough to get a 1-year contract out of it. He's not going to be a FA for at least 4 years.

I wasn't implying that he'll be an FA soon. I meant if there were no bids on him (unlikely, but that's how I interpreted skottyj's post), Matsuzaka would simply play another year in Japan and then be an unrestricted FA and be able to negotiate with a number of clubs. Obviously if he's posted and signs with a US team this year, that wouldn't be a factor.