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Ol' No. 2
10-17-2006, 12:40 PM
Seems to be a bumper crop of FA middle relievers this year. I think four of the Sox bullpen slots are locked down: Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal and Haeger. That leaves two, probably one lefty and one righty.

Here are a few of my picks:

RH:
LaTroy Hawkins (just keep him away from the 9th inning)
Justin Speier
Russ Springer
Mike Timlin

LH:
Ray King
Steve Kline
Jamie Walker

Who do you like?

palehozenychicty
10-17-2006, 12:42 PM
Hawkins and King could pay us big dividends. Plus, they are local guys. King is from the Southside and Hawkins is from Gary. He also may want to stick it to the Cubs after his brutal stay on the Northside.

spiffie
10-17-2006, 12:46 PM
The only guys on that list who represent upgrades would be Speier and Walker. Give me a pen of

Jenks
McDougal
Speier
Thornton
Walker
Haeger

and I'll feel pretty good going into this season.

CashMan
10-17-2006, 12:47 PM
Well, I think KW said in an interview, he would aquire 1 from FA, 1 from a trade and 1 from within the organization. So I think that means, FA, Trade, and either Cotts/Haeger. I dont see them going for 2 FA RPs.

spiffie
10-17-2006, 12:49 PM
Hawkins and King could pay us big dividends. Plus, they are local guys. King is from the Southside and Hawkins is from Gary. He also may want to stick it to the Cubs after his brutal stay on the Northside.
Hawkins: 2005 - 3.83 ERA 1.46 WHIP. 2006 - 4.48 ERA 1.46 WHIP
King: 2005 - 3.38 ERA 1.55 WHIP. 2006 - 4.43 ERA 1.70 WHIP

And this year King can't use the Colorado excuse, as their park effect was basically nullified by the humidor.

itsnotrequired
10-17-2006, 12:49 PM
It is a well-documented fact that if the Sox land ARod, they will be unable to get any bullpen help.

:redneck

mjmcend
10-17-2006, 12:54 PM
It is a well-documented fact that if the Sox land ARod, they will be unable to get any bullpen help.

:redneck

Actually if we get ARod, we won't even be allowed to have a bullpen. They will use the spot in the outfield to store left over blue seats.

spiffie
10-17-2006, 01:00 PM
Actually if we get ARod, we won't even be allowed to have a bullpen. They will use the spot in the outfield to store left over blue seats.
I thought ARod was the bullpen help we were getting.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 01:01 PM
I'd like KW to pursue Justin Speier. As for the 5th spot out of the BP let Logan (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Boone%20Logan&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457429) and Perez (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Oneli%20Perez&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=470358) along with the other non roster invites battle it out in ST.

chaerulez
10-17-2006, 01:03 PM
I do not want to see Hawkins on the team. I agree he isn't bad when he's not closing, but I put him under the "Ricky Manning Jr." column of players- jerks I would rather not cheer for.

Foulke You
10-17-2006, 02:41 PM
Personally, I would like the Sox to get either Chad Bradford or Arthur Rhodes. Rhodes could be another solid veteran lefty to depend on besides Thornton and he also had a good season in the AL Central in 2005 so he knows a lot of the hitters in our division already. Chad Bradford is a great setup man with a deceptive underarm delivery that could compliment our flame throwing back end of the bullpen very nicely.

On Old No.2's list I would LOVE to have Mike Timlin but I have a feeling he is going to command some big money this offseason. In addition to that, Boston can ill afford to let him get away especially if they plan on using Jonathon Papelbon as a starter as previously rumored.

spiffie
10-17-2006, 02:48 PM
Seems to be a bumper crop of FA middle relievers this year. I think four of the Sox bullpen slots are locked down: Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal and Haeger. That leaves two, probably one lefty and one righty.

Here are a few of my picks:

RH:
LaTroy Hawkins 60 G, 60.3 IP, 4.48 ERA, 1.46 WHIP (AL)
Justin Speier 58 G, 51.3 IP, 2.98 ERA, 1.33 WHIP (AL)
Russ Springer 72 G, 59.7 IP, 3.47 ERA, 1.04 WHIP (NL)
Mike Timlin 68 G, 64 IP, 4.36 ERA, 1.47 WHIP (AL)

LH:
Ray King 67 G, 44.7 IP, 4.43 ERA, 1.70 WHIP (NL)
Steve Kline 72 G, 51.7 IP, 3.66 ERA, 1.53 WHIP (NL)
Jamie Walker 56 G, 48 IP, 2.81 ERA, 1.15 WHIP (AL)

Who do you like?

I added last year's stats to these guys, just so everyone has a better idea what they're dealing with.

Ol' No. 2
10-17-2006, 02:52 PM
Personally, I would like the Sox to get either Chad Bradford or Arthur Rhodes. Rhodes could be another solid veteran lefty to depend on besides Thornton and he also had a good season in the AL Central in 2005 so he knows a lot of the hitters in our division already. Chad Bradford is a great setup man with a deceptive underarm delivery that could compliment our flame throwing back end of the bullpen very nicely.

On Old No.2's list I would LOVE to have Mike Timlin but I have a feeling he is going to command some big money this offseason. In addition to that, Boston can ill afford to let him get away especially if they plan on using Jonathon Papelbon as a starter as previously rumored.Timlin made $2.75M this year and he'll be 41 on opening day. No one is going to give him big bucks. I'm sure Boston will try to re-sign him, but that's no reason not to make a run at him.

Rhodes has had one good season in the last four. He's about to turn 37. I have serious doubts about what he's got left in the tank.

Bradford might be OK, but I wonder if that funky delivery has run its course in the AL. Seems like a very iffy proposition.

And how could I have forgotten? Jason Grimsley is available.:redneck

DaleJRFan
10-17-2006, 03:15 PM
Seems to be a bumper crop of FA middle relievers this year. I think four of the Sox bullpen slots are locked down: Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal and Haeger. That leaves two, probably one lefty and one righty.

Here are a few of my picks:

RH:
LaTroy Hawkins (just keep him away from the 9th inning)
Justin Speier
Russ Springer
Mike Timlin

LH:
Ray King
Steve Kline
Jamie Walker

Who do you like?


Out of those names, the only two worthy considering are Justin Speier and Jamie Walker. I doubt the Tigers let Walker go, but the BLueJays have made it clear they aren't going to sign Speier for the $$$ he will command in Free Agency.

I've said it before and I'll asy it again, Justin Speier with MacDougal, Thornton and Jenks would be 4 of the toughest relievers in the game and would make the Sox bullpen just plain NASTY.

DaleJRFan
10-17-2006, 03:17 PM
I'd like KW to pursue Justin Speier. As for the 5th spot out of the BP let Logan (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Boone%20Logan&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457429) and Perez (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Oneli%20Perez&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=470358) along with the other non roster invites battle it out in ST.


Please, no more Boone Logan. He was bad to start the season and was even worse when he came back with September callups.

DaleJRFan
10-17-2006, 03:23 PM
And how could I have forgotten? Jason Grimsley is available.:redneck

There are a lot of young quality bullpen arms that are currently signed that could be had in trade. Both Mike Gonzalez and Brian Fuentes are in their sixth year of service and will be free agents soon. KW could swoop them up from their respective teams before they hit the open market.

Remember that KW, over the last few years has picked up several quality relievers under the radar. I doubt than anyone anticipated Dustin Hermanson, Shingo or even Vizcaino would contribute as much as they did. It wouldn't surprise me to see KW make a small signing that has big time impact...

But my question is, what happened to Jeremy Affeldt?? He seemed like he was going to blossom and has done nothing but stink the last few years. Is he fixable?

Beautox
10-17-2006, 03:27 PM
Please, no more Boone Logan. He was bad to start the season and was even worse when he came back with September callups.

Hes 21 yrs old and nearly had 12K/9 at AAA as their closer, hes one of the youngest pitchers in the INT and hes left handed. Hes got ML stuff and a trickery delivery, give the kid a chance. 17.1IP in the majors doesn't make or break a year let alone a career.

We've seen two sides to him this past season: The one that dominates hitters by striking them out and inducing ground balls(ST/AAA/@Cle), and the other that gets afraid to attack hitters and keep the ball low in the zone and goes about over using his slider that falls off the table. Its not an issue of stuff, its an issue of confidence, theres more to being on a ML roster than just facing Travis Hafners and the like, you have to deal with travel, press, bigger stadiums and more things than i can even fathom. Give the kid more time.

DaleJRFan
10-17-2006, 03:30 PM
Hes 21 yrs old and nearly had 12K/9 at AAA as their closer, hes one of the youngest pitchers in the INT and hes left handed. Hes got ML stuff and a trickery delivery, give the kid a chance. 17.1IP in the majors doesn't make or break a year let alone a career.

We've seen two sides to him this past season: The one that dominates hitters by striking them out and inducing ground balls(ST/AAA/@Cle), and the other that gets afraid to attack hitters and keep the ball low in the zone and goes about over using his slider that falls off the table. Its not an issue of stuff, its an issue of confidence, theres more to being on a ML roster than just facing Travis Hafners and the like, you have to deal with travel, press, bigger stadiums and more things than i can even fathom. Give the kid more time.

Yes, you are right. BUT - give him more time in AAA to sort it out. THere is no need to have 21 year old relief pitchers "learning how to pitch" at the MLB level when games are on the line.

Give the job to someone who is proven and can get guys out, now.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 03:37 PM
Yes, you are right. BUT - give him more time in AAA to sort it out. THere is no need to have 21 year old relief pitchers "learning how to pitch" at the MLB level when games are on the line.

Give the job to someone who is proven and can get guys out, now.

Thats what winterball and ST are for, already Logan is starting out on the right foot for Tiburones de La Guaira 1.1IP 2SO. If we get Justin Speier we can afford to break in Boone or Oneli as the 5th guy out of the pen, these guys have ML talent, its just a matter of confidence. What more does Logan have to prove at AAA? that he can get 13K/9 that he can continue to dominate his competition and effectively close games? He just needs to get confidence at the ML level, simple as that.

Cuck_The_Fubs
10-17-2006, 03:39 PM
:bandance: Give me Justin Speier. I love that guy's wind up, it is sweet. We would have such a diverse, NASTY(GROTESQUE is even better), if we got Speier.

DaleJRFan
10-17-2006, 03:43 PM
Thats what winterball and ST are for, already Logan is starting out on the right foot for Tiburones de La Guaira 1.1IP 2SO. If we get Justin Speier we can afford to break in Boone or Oneli as the 5th guy out of the pen, these guys have ML talent, its just a matter of confidence. What more does Logan have to prove at AAA? that he can get 13K/9 that he can continue to dominate his competition and effectively close games? He just needs to get confidence at the ML level, simple as that.


I think his K/9IP stat was padded by that ridiculous 2 IP outing in Cleveland when he stuck every batter out. :cool:

But you make a good point, I would be enthralled with Spiere/Logan over Riske/Cotts.

There were a handful of games last year when Logan looked unhittable. 94+ fastball, nasty cutter in on righties... I just don't want to see him piss his pants when he's put in a high-leverage situation. Hopefully that is behind him now.

Ol' No. 2
10-17-2006, 03:47 PM
Thats what winterball and ST are for, already Logan is starting out on the right foot for Tiburones de La Guaira 1.1IP 2SO. If we get Justin Speier we can afford to break in Boone or Oneli as the 5th guy out of the pen, these guys have ML talent, its just a matter of confidence. What more does Logan have to prove at AAA? that he can get 13K/9 that he can continue to dominate his competition and effectively close games? He just needs to get confidence at the ML level, simple as that.I don't think you can go into 2007 counting on Logan to fill a bullpen spot. What he has left to prove in AAA is that he can do it again. There are always bullpen spots that open up during the year. It's almost inevitable that one of the relievers they're counting on for next year will blow up. Unless he just blows everyone's doors off in spring training, I think they still have to start him in AAA.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 03:48 PM
I think his K/9IP stat was padded by that ridiculous 2 IP outing in Cleveland when he stuck every batter out. :cool:

But you make a good point, I would be enthralled with Spiere/Logan over Riske/Cotts.

There were a handful of games last year when Logan looked unhittable. 94+ fastball, nasty cutter in on righties... I just don't want to see him piss his pants when he's put in a high-leverage situation. Hopefully that is behind him now.

lol

I think a BP of Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Spiere, Logan, Haeger is just down right filthy.

I think we can afford to use Logan as a LOOGY and in low pressure innings, he will eventually come around, hes got nasty stuff, i too hope its behind him.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 03:51 PM
I don't think you can go into 2007 counting on Logan to fill a bullpen spot. What he has left to prove in AAA is that he can do it again. There are always bullpen spots that open up during the year. It's almost inevitable that one of the relievers they're counting on for next year will blow up. Unless he just blows everyone's doors off in spring training, I think they still have to start him in AAA.

Well if were just buying time till Logan/Perez/Long will be ready, i wouldn't be against buying out Dustin and offering him an incentive laden deal as the 5th guy out of the pen.

oeo
10-17-2006, 03:57 PM
I'd like KW to pursue Justin Speier. As for the 5th spot out of the BP let Logan (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Boone%20Logan&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457429) and Perez (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Oneli%20Perez&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=470358) along with the other non roster invites battle it out in ST.

Didn't we try that last year? I have a hard time believing Logan will ever be a good bullpen arm. I hope we've seen the end of that experiment.

Kenny has already said he wants the nastiest bullpen in baseball, so do I. Logan isn't going to do it, even if he is the 5th spot.

EDIT: Whoops, already addressed.

Lip Man 1
10-17-2006, 03:59 PM
No. 2:

I disagree with your assesment. Remember recently a story at White Sox.com quoted someone as saying Oziie 'wasn't impressed' with the kids down the stretch with the possible exception of Haeger.

I personally think only Jenks, MacDougle and Thornton are 'locks' assuming all are healthy. Riske may be resigned so yes they are going to need at least two arms, maybe three. I just don't automatically assume Haeger is getting a slot. With as many decent middle guys out there, Kenny may just go out and buy three of them. (And he needs a lefty to back up Thornton----could be Cotts but he has to actually show he can get batters out again.)

Lip

Ol' No. 2
10-17-2006, 04:04 PM
Well if were just buying time till Logan/Perez/Long will be ready, i wouldn't be against buying out Dustin and offering him an incentive laden deal as the 5th guy out of the pen.I'll be surprised if Hermanson's back is ever right again. Middle relievers are relatively cheap. Go out and sign a lefty and a righty to fill out the bullpen and start Logan in AAA. As sure as the sun shines, at least one of the relievers will blow up, and by then Logan will have a bit more seasoning.

Chisox003
10-17-2006, 04:07 PM
As for the 5th spot out of the BP let Logan (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Boone%20Logan&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457429) and Perez (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Oneli%20Perez&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=470358) along with the other non roster invites battle it out in ST.
Eww, no.

I want ZERO weak link, kids can play, non roster invite garbage on this team. That got us nowhere this year.

Ol' No. 2
10-17-2006, 04:14 PM
No. 2:

I disagree with your assesment. Remember recently a story at White Sox.com quoted someone as saying Oziie 'wasn't impressed' with the kids down the stretch with the possible exception of Haeger.

I personally think only Jenks, MacDougle and Thornton are 'locks' assuming all are healthy. Riske may be resigned so yes they are going to need at least two arms, maybe three. I just don't automatically assume Haeger is getting a slot. With as many decent middle guys out there, Kenny may just go out and buy three of them. (And he needs a lefty to back up Thornton----could be Cotts but he has to actually show he can get batters out again.)

LipCould be, but Haeger did a pretty good job for them in September. At minimum I'd say he has the inside track on the long man position and is more likely to be in the bullpen next year than Riske. I'd give Cotts no better than 50/50 to be back next year.

It may depend on Kenny's budget and what other moves he makes. If he has the budget room, he might sign an extra FA pitcher and stash both Haeger and Logan in AAA for the time being. It pretty much happens every year that at least one of the relievers can't get the job done, and having those two guys waiting in the wings to plug a hole could be very valuable. It's just too soon to tell how this is going to play out.

DaleJRFan
10-17-2006, 04:14 PM
I'll be surprised if Hermanson's back is ever right again. Middle relievers are relatively cheap. Go out and sign a lefty and a righty to fill out the bullpen and start Logan in AAA. As sure as the sun shines, at least one of the relievers will blow up, and by then Logan will have a bit more seasoning.

Maybe it would help Dustin Hermanson's back if he started to pitch left handed.

If Dustin and Riske are brought back, the only way either of them actually get a spot in the bullpen is by battling each other for it - which would also put them in competition with Haeger. The odds of either Hermanson or Riske signing some sort of Spring Training NRI deal are nearly impossible. With all of the other teams in desperate need of bullpen help, they could be top-end guys for just aobut any NL team. I can't see KW bringing either back and "settling". If Ozzie was unhappy with the younger guys, as he was quoted, I don't know how he could be happy with Riske.

chisoxmike
10-17-2006, 04:27 PM
As for the 5th spot out of the BP let Logan (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Boone%20Logan&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457429) and Perez (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Oneli%20Perez&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=470358) along with the other non roster invites battle it out in ST.

Hell no, the minor leaguers have proven they have no guts and they can't throw strikes on a major league team vs. major league competition.

Sargeant79
10-17-2006, 05:41 PM
Speier would be great, but I'd settle for Jamie Walker.

My other vote: Russ Springer. He has great numbers (albeit in the NL) and he seemed to do a nice job every time I've watched him pitch in the last two years.

Corlose 15
10-17-2006, 05:52 PM
If we're going for an internal solution to the LOOGY I'd rather have Cotts fill that role than Logan.

batmanZoSo
10-17-2006, 07:10 PM
I thought ARod was the bullpen help we were getting.

With Arod and this lineup we won't even need a bullpen! You know, just like having "five good starters" proved last year.

Tragg
10-17-2006, 10:13 PM
Seems to be a bumper crop of FA middle relievers this year. I think four of the Sox bullpen slots are locked down: Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal and Haeger. That leaves two, probably one lefty and one righty.

Here are a few of my picks:

RH:
LaTroy Hawkins (just keep him away from the 9th inning)
Justin Speier
Russ Springer
Mike Timlin

LH:
Ray King
Steve Kline
Jamie Walker

Who do you like?

That's a sad bunch. Hawkins? Egads.
But, after all, they are middle relievers, so they can't be very good.