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Lip Man 1
10-16-2006, 11:20 PM
Some interesting notations and comments including Cubs expanding payroll.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2628823

Lip

Craig Grebeck
10-16-2006, 11:25 PM
It'd be a good fit, Izturis is horrid and is going to deteriorate more with all of his serious injuries. An infield of Ramirez, AROD, Theriot and Lee would win a lot of games.

zmz723
10-16-2006, 11:27 PM
It'd be a good fit, Izturis is horrid and is going to deteriorate more with all of his serious injuries. An infield of Ramirez, AROD, Theriot and Lee would win a lot of games.
the yankees would want ramirez in the deal though.

buehrle4cy05
10-16-2006, 11:27 PM
It'd be a good fit, Izturis is horrid and is going to deteriorate more with all of his serious injuries. An infield of Ramirez, AROD, Theriot and Lee would win a lot of games.

A-Rod can't pitch. It might get the Cubs to 85 wins, but nothing more than that.

samram
10-16-2006, 11:29 PM
And the Cubs would give up what? The Yankees aren't dumb enough to take Aramis and the Cubs can't give up Zambrano. Maybe the Yanks are dying to have Jacque Jones.

Lip Man 1
10-16-2006, 11:29 PM
Ramirez would in all likelyhood be going to the Yanks.

Lip

PKalltheway
10-16-2006, 11:39 PM
A-Rod can't pitch. It might get the Cubs to 85 wins, but nothing more than that.
With how the NL Central is going right now, that may be all they need.
For the Cubs, whose management experienced the rare and unnerving sight of empty seats at Wrigley Field this past season
I liked that part of the article!:D:

soltrain21
10-16-2006, 11:39 PM
Can't Aramis opt out of his contract?

infohawk
10-16-2006, 11:43 PM
A-Rod can't pitch. It might get the Cubs to 85 wins, but nothing more than that.
I completely agree. The Cubs have Prior (if healthy) and Zambrano. They can't count on Wood to give them lots of innings, assuming they re-sign him. Beyond that, they have young, inexperienced pitching. It's hard to win with that.

They could be aggressive in the free agent market, but it would be tough to take on A-Rod's salary AND the salary of a Barry Zito or Jason Schmidt. There aren't many good starters on the market this offseason, so I expect the going rate to be rather high. Not to mention that trading Ramirez would leave the Cubs short a third baseman. On top of all of this, I don't think the Cubs have the players the Yankees would want for A-Rod. My guess is that the Yankees would want Ramirez and Zambrano. I don't see the Cubs parting with Zambrano unless they could get a few young players for him. I don't know of any really good prospects in the Cub organization, either. The Cubs would likely have to get another team involved, but that just complicates things and makes a deal more unlikely to happen. I just don't see it.

The big problem with the Cubs is that they refuse to officially rebuild. They need to acknowledge they're bad, apologize to the fans for a few more losing seasons while they rebuild and set a plan in motion. The biggest indication to me of continued futility was when I read that the Cub upper brass has established a mandate for the Cubs to win the World Series next year. I know the N.L. Central is weak right now, but c'mon!

MUsoxfan
10-16-2006, 11:55 PM
I have it on good word that the Yanks are looking to CUT salary in order to be more "fiscally responsible", so don't look for them to be trading for guys that are due a boatload of cash

oeo
10-17-2006, 12:10 AM
Well, if A-Rod goes to the Flubs, he'll never wear a ring. A future HOF'er just rotting in that clown suit? Don't do it Alex, come here. :D:

Beautox
10-17-2006, 01:21 AM
Ramirez would in all likelyhood be going to the Yanks.

Lip

I doubt it, hes going to opt out for FA, because he has a huge pay day coming with the weak FA class.

Next the cubs having nothing of value, Pie? the Yankees OF is locked up till 08 and 09 and they have Tabata who is light years ahead of Pie. Pawelek? another injury risk 21yr who hasn't advanced past SS? and they've got Hughes and Clippard. Patterson? they've got Cano at 2B.

The cubs realistic trading chips are Prior (who has little to no trade value) Zambrano who has a year left before FA, and thats it. The cubs will make a splash this offseason with FAs; hopefully retain Pierre(for our sake) and over pay for Soriano.

The 3 teams that have the talent, a chance to contend and can afford his contract are as follows: The Angels, The Dodgers & The White Sox.

The Angels will attempt to acquire Aramis this offseason, and if not him Manny as a DH. Their FO loves their prospects far to much to trade any of them away and they have always preferred spending $ than young talent.

I don't see the Dodgers as a good fit either, they have Wilson Betemit who will be cheap for the next 4 years, and they also have 3B Andy LaRoche who could be moving to 1B provided they don't re sign Nomar and at SS they've got Furcal, so where would Alex play? not to mention the arms they would have to give up; i have a hard time seeing them give up Billingsley or Kuo and to a lesser extent Scott Elbert who could be in the rotation at the start of '07 all of them will all be staples for their rotation for the next 5-6 years, along with Penny and Lowe; Elbert into the rotation is dependant on what Maddux wants to do. The Dodgers don't need star power to draw people to the stadium and they've got very balanced line up where it appears every position player can hit .280+ and leave the ball park 15 or more times.

Now with the this very recent Uribe trouble brewing, and the fact that Joe is hesitant about minor back surgery and we can spare a ML starter not named McCarthy the sox look to be in a prime position to get Alex. Crede + Garcia + Broadway + Cotts and a throw in like Tracey for Alex and Melky addresses issues on both sides. We also have a quandary with Dye after the '07 season if he has another year like '06 hes going to command alot of money as a FA, and even though he is a class act and took less money to come to the sox i can't see him giving us a home town discount twice. Add into the fact that he will be on the wrong side of 30 going into the '08 season and you have to ask yourself do want to give him a 3-4 year deal till hes 38/39? also throw into the mix Ryan Sweeney is ML ready now but another year at AAA for seasoning would do him some good and his power is developing rapidly at 21.

Lastly we will need to sustain our 3-5 production from '08 onward, Alex allows us to do that; he along with PK and thome are locked up till 2010. We also get a good amount of turn over in fields, sweeney, melky and getz(who already has a ML glove at 2B and was a two time big ten all star at 2B for Michigan, and is the anti borchard 52BB/47SO @ AA) and we can't forget Anderson who will develop into a fine everyday ball player. This allows us to stay competitive, and young, following the a brave like philosophy that KW has gone on record as saying he is trying to emulate.

Sargeant79
10-17-2006, 01:48 AM
I doubt it, hes going to opt out for FA, because he has a huge pay day coming with the weak FA class.

Next the cubs having nothing of value, Pie? the Yankees OF is locked up till 08 and 09 and they have Tabata who is light years ahead of Pie. Pawelek? another injury risk 21yr who hasn't advanced past SS? and they've got Hughes and Clippard. Patterson? they've got Cano at 2B.

The cubs realistic trading chips are Prior (who has little to no trade value) Zambrano who has a year left before FA, and thats it. The cubs will make a splash this offseason with FAs; hopefully retain Pierre(for our sake) and over pay for Soriano.

The 3 teams that have the talent, a chance to contend and can afford his contract are as follows: The Angels, The Dodgers & The White Sox.

The Angels will attempt to acquire Aramis this offseason, and if not him Manny as a DH. Their FO loves their prospects far to much to trade any of them away and they have always preferred spending $ than young talent.

I don't see the Dodgers as a good fit either, they have Wilson Betemit who will be cheap for the next 4 years, and they also have 3B Andy LaRoche who could be moving to 1B provided they don't re sign Nomar and at SS they've got Furcal, so where would Alex play? not to mention the arms they would have to give up; i have a hard time seeing them give up Billingsley or Kuo and to a lesser extent Scott Elbert who could be in the rotation at the start of '07 all of them will all be staples for their rotation for the next 5-6 years, along with Penny and Lowe; Elbert into the rotation is dependant on what Maddux wants to do. The Dodgers don't need star power to draw people to the stadium and they've got very balanced line up where it appears every position player can hit .280+ and leave the ball park 15 or more times.

Now with the this very recent Uribe trouble brewing, and the fact that Joe is hesitant about minor back surgery and we can spare a ML starter not named McCarthy the sox look to be in a prime position to get Alex. Crede + Garcia + Broadway + Cotts and a throw in like Tracey for Alex and Melky addresses issues on both sides. We also have a quandary with Dye after the '07 season if he has another year like '06 hes going to command alot of money as a FA, and even though he is a class act and took less money to come to the sox i can't see him giving us a home town discount twice. Add into the fact that he will be on the wrong side of 30 going into the '08 season and you have to ask yourself do want to give him a 3-4 year deal till hes 38/39? also throw into the mix Ryan Sweeney is ML ready now but another year at AAA for seasoning would do him some good and his power is developing rapidly at 21.

Lastly we will need to sustain our 3-5 production from '08 onward, Alex allows us to do that; he along with PK and thome are locked up till 2010. We also get a good amount of turn over in fields, sweeney, melky and getz(who already has a ML glove at 2B and was a two time big ten all star at 2B for Michigan, and is the anti borchard 52BB/47SO @ AA) and we can't forget Anderson who will develop into a fine everyday ball player. This allows us to stay competitive, and young, following the a brave like philosophy that KW has gone on record as saying he is trying to emulate.

Good analysis.

I think the trade situation you proposed (Garcia + Crede + Broadway + Cotts + Tracey for A-Rod and Melky Cabrera) actually makes a lot of sense for both teams. From the Yankees standpoint, it is probably a more attractive package than either the Angels, Dodgers, or Cubs can or would be will ing to come up with. Plus, it addresses the Yankees' needs as well.

They probably wouldn't mind moving Melky, given the contracts they have locked up in their current outfield. Crede provides a reasonable level of offensive production to replace A-Rod's numbers, especially in that lineup. As maddening as Freddy can be to us at times, he's a proven starter who has name recognition He's also proven that he can pitch well in pressure situations, which is exactly the type of pitcher who the Yanks think may help them in the postseason. Plus, you get a nice pitching prospect with considerable upside in Broadway. If I'm Brian Cashman, I make that deal.

RealMenWearBlack
10-17-2006, 01:54 AM
Why would A-Rod waive his no trade clause (I'm pretty sure he has one) to go the Cubs? Is he really that desparate to get out of New York? :o:

MUsoxfan
10-17-2006, 02:08 AM
Why would A-Rod waive his no trade clause (I'm pretty sure he has one) to go the Cubs? Is he really that desparate to get out of New York? :o:

I recall him saying after the Yankees were eliminated that he wanted to stay a Yankee but if they really wanted him gone he'd go.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 02:37 AM
Good analysis.

I think the trade situation you proposed (Garcia + Crede + Broadway + Cotts + Tracey for A-Rod and Melky Cabrera) actually makes a lot of sense for both teams. From the Yankees standpoint, it is probably a more attractive package than either the Angels, Dodgers, or Cubs can or would be will ing to come up with. Plus, it addresses the Yankees' needs as well.

They probably wouldn't mind moving Melky, given the contracts they have locked up in their current outfield. Crede provides a reasonable level of offensive production to replace A-Rod's numbers, especially in that lineup. As maddening as Freddy can be to us at times, he's a proven starter who has name recognition He's also proven that he can pitch well in pressure situations, which is exactly the type of pitcher who the Yanks think may help them in the postseason. Plus, you get a nice pitching prospect with considerable upside in Broadway. If I'm Brian Cashman, I make that deal.

Thanks, some Yankee fans are foolish to think they're going to get the world for Alex, his perceived value is at an all time low even though he produced great numbers during the '06 season, and very few teams that are contenders can afford a 16 mil year player on the payroll.

I've already stated why i think the angels will only pursue Alex as a last resort. Boston is going into a rebuilding mode and need to shed Manny's contract especially because they already have a better left handed DH, and Manny has become a health liability on the field. As for the dodgers i just don't see it happening they already had an influx of infielders this season and even with Lugo leaving via FA there just isn't room, and their core of young pitchers is going to keep them at the head of the NL west for the next 5+ years.

Melky Cabrera has no place in the Yankee OF till 2009, and by then he would have spent 4 more years at AAA when he has already shown he is ML ready or riding the pine as a 4-6th OF even though the Yankees have Guiel and I'm under the assumption they will bring Bernie back because he is still productive, a fan favorite and cheap(1.5mil last year), on Cashmans behalf that would be a waste of talent and resources. I've gone into great length here at WSI how the whole Yankee OF is locked up and has complete NTC, and the fact that Matsui brings in alot of ad revenue from Japan.

As for the trade package:

what we would be giving up

-Garcia is a proven starter who will give them innings and is the bridge to their young talented staff. He has the possibility of dominating with his new split along with the possibility of a few mph coming back on his fastball. He loves the big stage and there isn't a bigger one than NY.

-Crede has a GG at the hot corner, and is only 28 he still has 2 years of ARB left and is just entering his prime as a hitter, his back has buyer beware written all over it, and if he doesn't get surgery this offseason the sox will move him while his trade value is at an all time high.

-Broadway is a college polished pitcher who was a safe(and wise) pick from the '05 draft, he projects to be a #3 inning eater, hes got a +curve, but a low 90s fastball, he isn't a thrower, hes a pitcher.

-Cotts is left handed and had a great year in '05 and a very disappointing '06, he could bounce back but the nature of 80% of pitchers in the bullpen leads it to being a crap shoot he also has 3 years of ARB left.

-Tracey, a rare breed of pitcher, high SO high GO, his command has always been eratic if he can ever find it he could be a very dominating force in the BP, but that is neither here or there. Ozzie has obviously soured on him, and he hasn't shown the organization much at the ML level(even though it has been a very short stint) to warrent being on the 25 man roster next season. He will also be 26 in NOV and is getting a little too old to have the word prospect attached to his name.

What we would be getting

-Alex Freaking Rodriguez

-Cabrera a 22yr old LFer, who's natural position is CF, hes got sterling defense and a good enough arm to make runners think twice about a hustle double or scoring from third on a bloop single to LF. Melky is a switch hitter who has great plate discipline and sprays the ball to all fields, his power is still developing, and hes got speed, he just hasn't quite mastered the art of stolen bases id say his ceiling is higher than Johnny Damons. His floor would be about .285+/.365/.400 12-15HR, 15-20SB/6-8CS.

Flight #24
10-17-2006, 07:12 AM
Yanks won't be trading ARod without getting pitching in return. And why they would take Ramirez and any of the chump Cubs starters except Zambrano instead of say Crede plus Garcia is beyond me. And if the Cubs deal Zambrano in any ARod trade, I could see him declining to waive the NTC. Or they'd still suck and he'd become the new Sosa with far superior overall #s, but very few wins.

russ99
10-17-2006, 07:26 AM
Thanks, some Yankee fans are foolish to think they're going to get the world for Alex, his perceived value is at an all time low even though he produced great numbers during the '06 season, and very few teams that are contenders can afford a 16 mil year player on the payroll.

I've already stated why i think the angels will only pursue Alex as a last resort. Boston is going into a rebuilding mode and need to shed Manny's contract especially because they already have a better left handed DH, and Manny has become a health liability on the field. As for the dodgers i just don't see it happening they already had an influx of infielders this season and even with Lugo leaving via FA there just isn't room, and their core of young pitchers is going to keep them at the head of the NL west for the next 5+ years.

Melky Cabrera has no place in the Yankee OF till 2009, and by then he would have spent 4 more years at AAA when he has already shown he is ML ready or riding the pine as a 4-6th OF even though the Yankees have Guiel and I'm under the assumption they will bring Bernie back because he is still productive, a fan favorite and cheap(1.5mil last year), on Cashmans behalf that would be a waste of talent and resources. I've gone into great length here at WSI how the whole Yankee OF is locked up and has complete NTC, and the fact that Matsui brings in alot of ad revenue from Japan.

As for the trade package:

what we would be giving up

-Garcia is a proven starter who will give them innings and is the bridge to their young talented staff. He has the possibility of dominating with his new split along with the possibility of a few mph coming back on his fastball. He loves the big stage and there isn't a bigger one than NY.

-Crede has a GG at the hot corner, and is only 28 he still has 2 years of ARB left and is just entering his prime as a hitter, his back has buyer beware written all over it, and if he doesn't get surgery this offseason the sox will move him while his trade value is at an all time high.

-Broadway is a college polished pitcher who was a safe(and wise) pick from the '05 draft, he projects to be a #3 inning eater, hes got a +curve, but a low 90s fastball, he isn't a thrower, hes a pitcher.

-Cotts is left handed and had a great year in '05 and a very disappointing '06, he could bounce back but the nature of 80% of pitchers in the bullpen leads it to being a crap shoot he also has 3 years of ARB left.

-Tracey, a rare breed of pitcher, high SO high GO, his command has always been eratic if he can ever find it he could be a very dominating force in the BP, but that is neither here or there. Ozzie has obviously soured on him, and he hasn't shown the organization much at the ML level(even though it has been a very short stint) to warrent being on the 25 man roster next season. He will also be 26 in NOV and is getting a little too old to have the word prospect attached to his name.

What we would be getting

-Alex Freaking Rodriguez

-Cabrera a 22yr old LFer, who's natural position is CF, hes got sterling defense and a good enough arm to make runners think twice about a hustle double or scoring from third on a bloop single to LF. Melky is a switch hitter who has great plate discipline and sprays the ball to all fields, his power is still developing, and hes got speed, he just hasn't quite mastered the art of stolen bases id say his ceiling is higher than Johnny Damons. His floor would be about .285+/.365/.400 12-15HR, 15-20SB/6-8CS.

As much as I scoff at a potential Sox A-Rod acquisition, that's not a bad deal, and it helps both teams. The only roadblock is Rodriguez massive salary, which would either force the Sox payroll well over the 120M mark, or force the team to cut salary in other ways. If the Yanks send substantial cash, I'd probably do that deal.

A-Rod on the Cubs is laughable, just like Zito or Soriano on the Cubs. No way does the Cub management blow that kind of massive cash in the offseason, regardless of the press buzz, or what Piniella says. Besides, the Cubs can fill seats with a horrible 90 loss team, so there's no pressure.

Hendry also is trying to re-sign Aramis Ramirez, and he wants to stay a Cub, so he'll likely be off the FA market. Who else besides Ramirez do the Cubs have to deal for A-Rod? Realistically it's only Pie, Hill and Zambrano, and if I were GM, I'd consider "El Nutcase" untouchable. Who'd really take Prior - damaged goods.

jenn2080
10-17-2006, 07:40 AM
What are they going to give them in return? They have like 4 players that are worth anything.

PorkChopExpress
10-17-2006, 07:44 AM
Who'd really take Prior - damaged goods.

I'd take Prior. The guy is still young and can get back on track. I would be willing to take the risk that there is really something wrong with the way Cubs pitchers train, and know that Coop can help him get his mechanics back while Herm keeps him healthy.

Back to the A-Rod deals, it sounds like everyone is willing to give up pitching (a proven starter, a bullpen lefty, and two pitching prospects) plus a Gold Glove caliber 3B for this guy. I understand the proposed deal included Melky Cabrera as well, but it seems like we are getting away from "pitching and defense" to acquire a big name power hitter. I'm not saying I would not do the deal, but we better have some other ways of plugging the holes in the rotation and bullpen, too.

Also, I would hate to see A-Rod in a Cubs Uniform. You know he would play as if he had something to prove, and in the weak NL Central, he may be all they need at this point. I'm betting you'll see a lot of changed players with the manager change, so don't expect the poor numbers from everyone on the pitching staff you saw last year. D-Lee and A-Rod could be the most potent 3-4 in baseball. Who knows what Wade Miller can do, and if Zambrono is himself, and Prior at least gets in gear a little, they could look a lot like 2004 Red Sox.

russ99
10-17-2006, 07:57 AM
I'd take Prior. The guy is still young and can get back on track. I would be willing to take the risk that there is really something wrong with the way Cubs pitchers train, and know that Coop can help him get his mechanics back while Herm keeps him healthy.

Back to the A-Rod deals, it sounds like everyone is willing to give up pitching (a proven starter, a bullpen lefty, and two pitching prospects) plus a Gold Glove caliber 3B for this guy. I understand the proposed deal included Melky Cabrera as well, but it seems like we are getting away from "pitching and defense" to acquire a big name power hitter. I'm not saying I would not do the deal, but we better have some other ways of plugging the holes in the rotation and bullpen, too.

Also, I would hate to see A-Rod in a Cubs Uniform. You know he would play as if he had something to prove, and in the weak NL Central, he may be all they need at this point. I'm betting you'll see a lot of changed players with the manager change, so don't expect the poor numbers from everyone on the pitching staff you saw last year. D-Lee and A-Rod could be the most potent 3-4 in baseball. Who knows what Wade Miller can do, and if Zambrono is himself, and Prior at least gets in gear a little, they could look a lot like 2004 Red Sox.

I'm sure someone will eventually turn Prior into a decent pitcher again (not the Sox, please), but if they expect him to be an ace, that's a bit of a stretch.

Even if the Cubs get A-Rod that alone won't turn them into Central favorites (at least other than in the eyes of the Cubsessed press), even if the Central's weak.

The Cubs have way too many holes, only one starter and no closer. I can't see them finishing ahead of the Pirates next year and the Cards and Astros always seem to find a way to reload. The Brewers and Reds are sure to be tough too. Just cause they all struggled to hit .500 this season doesn't mean the Cubs can just jump ahead of all of them with one new player. :tongue:

downstairs
10-17-2006, 08:10 AM
A-Rod on the Cubs is laughable, just like Zito or Soriano on the Cubs. No way does the Cub management blow that kind of massive cash in the offseason, regardless of the press buzz, or what Piniella says. Besides, the Cubs can fill seats with a horrible 90 loss team, so there's no pressure.


No they can't. TONS of seats were empty the last third of 2006... and those seats were paid for! And paid with a lot of money.

If you have a team so bad that people who plopped down $50, $100 a ticket are eating them just to not see the team, you know you have trouble.

Yeah, their season tickets sell the place out the last 10+ years... but that won't last forever. If they continue this bad, they won't have 100% season ticket coverage. They they'll have to rely on game-by-game sales. The Cubs are lucky to have had 4-5 years of risk-free sell-outs following 2003. But those days will be over if things continue like this.

downstairs
10-17-2006, 08:12 AM
Also, lets not forget... a lot of the Sox money comes from being a popular team in Chicago. If A-Rod can help us, and not taking him means he goes to the Cubs, we lose a lot of money.

Operative phrase is "if he can help us".

I think he can, so I think Kenny has to make it happen.

A-Rod on the Sox and a playoff spot in 2007... Chicago is officially a Sox town.

wdelaney72
10-17-2006, 08:15 AM
Can we put a "Fingernails" type filter on AROD?

Seriuosly, I like the trade proposal mentioned previously with the Sox. It does benefit both teams.

If the Cubs trade Zambrano, it woud have to mean that he has indicated to Hendry that he won't agree to an extension. Otherwise, Jim Hendry would not only be the dumbest GM in baseball, but also the dumbest person in the entire world.

Somebody mentioned that they'd take Prior of the Cubs hands... I disagree only because I think he's soft. It certainly isn't becuase of his talent, because he's got amazing stuff.

MadetoOrta
10-17-2006, 08:18 AM
Why is everyone falling for the Cubune crap about "A-Rod to the Cubs?" Please folks. Other than Zambozo [who I would suspect is untouchable] the cubs have nothing of value to make the Yankees better. To trade A-Rod they will demand a frontline starter. Otherwise, he stays.

Flight #24
10-17-2006, 08:38 AM
FWIW, ESPN is citing a "source close to" Piniella that he wants the Cubs to trade for Alex. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2628823

But the problem, as always is that I don't see the Yanks interested in a deal centered around Ramirez. He's likely to get $10+M/yr, so it's not like there's a lot of cash savings there for the Yanks. And unless they get some good pitching in the deal, they take a step backwards talent-wise.

Seriously - which would you prefer: Garcia+Crede or Ramirez+Prior+Marshall?

Unless it's Zambrano, I don't see what the Cubs have that could interest the Yanks. If they want to deal Alex for guys that help in '07, it's Sox or Angels if you ask me.

samram
10-17-2006, 09:45 AM
FWIW, ESPN is citing a "source close to" Piniella that he wants the Cubs to trade for Alex. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2628823

But the problem, as always is that I don't see the Yanks interested in a deal centered around Ramirez. He's likely to get $10+M/yr, so it's not like there's a lot of cash savings there for the Yanks. And unless they get some good pitching in the deal, they take a step backwards talent-wise.

Seriously - which would you prefer: Garcia+Crede or Ramirez+Prior+Marshall?

Unless it's Zambrano, I don't see what the Cubs have that could interest the Yanks. If they want to deal Alex for guys that help in '07, it's Sox or Angels if you ask me.

Right. Lou can want him all the live long day, but they just don't have the players- I can't imagine the Yanks want Ramirez. If the fans there booed Rodriguez, what would they do when that fat slob decides to take a few games off and not run hard?

Ol' No. 2
10-17-2006, 09:49 AM
I doubt it, hes going to opt out for FA, because he has a huge pay day coming with the weak FA class.

Next the cubs having nothing of value, Pie? the Yankees OF is locked up till 08 and 09 and they have Tabata who is light years ahead of Pie. Pawelek? another injury risk 21yr who hasn't advanced past SS? and they've got Hughes and Clippard. Patterson? they've got Cano at 2B.

The cubs realistic trading chips are Prior (who has little to no trade value) Zambrano who has a year left before FA, and thats it. The cubs will make a splash this offseason with FAs; hopefully retain Pierre(for our sake) and over pay for Soriano.

The 3 teams that have the talent, a chance to contend and can afford his contract are as follows: The Angels, The Dodgers & The White Sox.

The Angels will attempt to acquire Aramis this offseason, and if not him Manny as a DH. Their FO loves their prospects far to much to trade any of them away and they have always preferred spending $ than young talent.

I don't see the Dodgers as a good fit either, they have Wilson Betemit who will be cheap for the next 4 years, and they also have 3B Andy LaRoche who could be moving to 1B provided they don't re sign Nomar and at SS they've got Furcal, so where would Alex play? not to mention the arms they would have to give up; i have a hard time seeing them give up Billingsley or Kuo and to a lesser extent Scott Elbert who could be in the rotation at the start of '07 all of them will all be staples for their rotation for the next 5-6 years, along with Penny and Lowe; Elbert into the rotation is dependant on what Maddux wants to do. The Dodgers don't need star power to draw people to the stadium and they've got very balanced line up where it appears every position player can hit .280+ and leave the ball park 15 or more times.

Now with the this very recent Uribe trouble brewing, and the fact that Joe is hesitant about minor back surgery and we can spare a ML starter not named McCarthy the sox look to be in a prime position to get Alex. Crede + Garcia + Broadway + Cotts and a throw in like Tracey for Alex and Melky addresses issues on both sides. We also have a quandary with Dye after the '07 season if he has another year like '06 hes going to command alot of money as a FA, and even though he is a class act and took less money to come to the sox i can't see him giving us a home town discount twice. Add into the fact that he will be on the wrong side of 30 going into the '08 season and you have to ask yourself do want to give him a 3-4 year deal till hes 38/39? also throw into the mix Ryan Sweeney is ML ready now but another year at AAA for seasoning would do him some good and his power is developing rapidly at 21.

Lastly we will need to sustain our 3-5 production from '08 onward, Alex allows us to do that; he along with PK and thome are locked up till 2010. We also get a good amount of turn over in fields, sweeney, melky and getz(who already has a ML glove at 2B and was a two time big ten all star at 2B for Michigan, and is the anti borchard 52BB/47SO @ AA) and we can't forget Anderson who will develop into a fine everyday ball player. This allows us to stay competitive, and young, following the a brave like philosophy that KW has gone on record as saying he is trying to emulate.I wouldn't count on Ramirez opting for FA. He's due $22.5M over the next two years with an $11M option for 2009 that becomes guaranteed if he plays 270 games in 2007-8. You really think someone is going to offer him more than that? I don't.

I agree that the Dodgers don't seem like a good fit. It seems to come down the the White Sox and Angels. What are the Angels likely to offer? Santana probably, but who else? The Yankees will need a 3B and there aren't any good ones on the FA market this year unless Ramirez comes out, and I don't think that's going to happen. Slap-hitters like Izturis don't go over well in NY. It would probably have to be Figgins, and I don't think the Angels will want do go that high.

I think throwing in Broadway is too much unless they get Cabrera also, and I don't see that happening. The Yankees will keep Cabrera as a 4th OF and insurance policy.

A. Cavatica
10-17-2006, 09:55 AM
I hope A-Rod goes to the Cubs. Better them than us, unless we can pick him up for chump change.

GoSox2K3
10-17-2006, 10:04 AM
Why is everyone falling for the Cubune crap about "A-Rod to the Cubs?" Please folks. Other than Zambozo [who I would suspect is untouchable] the cubs have nothing of value to make the Yankees better. To trade A-Rod they will demand a frontline starter. Otherwise, he stays.

Thank you. don't we hear the same crap about the Cubs every year?

With the hiring of Piniella, it is understood that the Cubs will expand their payroll, which was close to $100 million in 2006. Depending on how much they want to spend, the Cubs are one of the few teams capable of taking on Rodriguez's salary.

I don't get this quote from the article. Why is it assumed that the Cubs will expand payroll? I don't think the Trib is looking to spend more on teh Cubs.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 10:12 AM
As much as I scoff at a potential Sox A-Rod acquisition, that's not a bad deal, and it helps both teams. The only roadblock is Rodriguez massive salary, which would either force the Sox payroll well over the 120M mark, or force the team to cut salary in other ways. If the Yanks send substantial cash, I'd probably do that deal.

A-Rod on the Cubs is laughable, just like Zito or Soriano on the Cubs. No way does the Cub management blow that kind of massive cash in the offseason, regardless of the press buzz, or what Piniella says. Besides, the Cubs can fill seats with a horrible 90 loss team, so there's no pressure.

Hendry also is trying to re-sign Aramis Ramirez, and he wants to stay a Cub, so he'll likely be off the FA market. Who else besides Ramirez do the Cubs have to deal for A-Rod? Realistically it's only Pie, Hill and Zambrano, and if I were GM, I'd consider "El Nutcase" untouchable. Who'd really take Prior - damaged goods.

The salary isn't really an issue for this year or the duration of his contract. Crede(i assume 6mil+ in ARB) + Garcia(10mil in '07) is a wash for Alex(16mil), add into that Cotts is set to make about 2 - 2.5mil in his first year of ARB and Melky is going to make league min for the next two years, and your actually saving 2.3mil just for this deal. Hermanson will be getting bought out this offseason so thats 3mil off the books, Podsednik will get a raise in ARB of about 2-3MIL, and Uribe's 4mil for this year thats about 9-10MIL saved plus the 2.3 from Cotts. Constantly brining in young talent(Fields,McCarthy,Sweeney,Cabrera,Logan/Perez,Anderson, and hopefully Getz) allows us to absorb alex's contract and offers us payroll flexability.

Alex to the cubs is very laughable, they just don't have the pieces to get it done, but i expect them to make a splash this offseason with free agents.

Anyone else think that Zambrano coming to the AL would make him the new Josh Beckett? He would no longer be able to bean/walk the #7 hitter to face a weak hitting catcher, and then an equally weak hitting pitcher to get out of a Jam. I have a hard time seeing him being successful in an organization like the Yankees where the FO, fan base and media puts accountability on their players, look what he did on a 96 loss cub team.

Zambrano's '06
ERA 3.41
WHIP 1.29
BAA .208
IP 214
115BB/210SO with 9HBP
20HRs
GO/AO 1.28

Beckett's '05
ERA 3.37
WHIP 1.18
BAA .234
IP 178.2
58BB/166SO with 7HBP
14HRs
GO/AO 1.14

Beautox
10-17-2006, 10:30 AM
I'd take Prior. The guy is still young and can get back on track. I would be willing to take the risk that there is really something wrong with the way Cubs pitchers train, and know that Coop can help him get his mechanics back while Herm keeps him healthy.

Back to the A-Rod deals, it sounds like everyone is willing to give up pitching (a proven starter, a bullpen lefty, and two pitching prospects) plus a Gold Glove caliber 3B for this guy. I understand the proposed deal included Melky Cabrera as well, but it seems like we are getting away from "pitching and defense" to acquire a big name power hitter. I'm not saying I would not do the deal, but we better have some other ways of plugging the holes in the rotation and bullpen, too.

Also, I would hate to see A-Rod in a Cubs Uniform. You know he would play as if he had something to prove, and in the weak NL Central, he may be all they need at this point. I'm betting you'll see a lot of changed players with the manager change, so don't expect the poor numbers from everyone on the pitching staff you saw last year. D-Lee and A-Rod could be the most potent 3-4 in baseball. Who knows what Wade Miller can do, and if Zambrono is himself, and Prior at least gets in gear a little, they could look a lot like 2004 Red Sox.

I too would take Prior, but i would give up very little to acquire him.

With regards to Alex, i think the word "power hitter" doesn't do him justice, the guy isn't just a slugger, hes an all around great hitter. He also runs the bases very well, he will steal you 15-30 bases in any given year. As for pitching your adding McCarthy into a rotation where everyone had a career worst year, thats an immediate upgrade and for defense your getting a GGer back to his natural position of SS. Crede just like Chavez when they were coming up didn't have the word gold glove uttered in the same breath as them but they got better. Same goes for Fields, hes very athletic and i think at the very least could give ML average 3B with the potential for much more. Fields just like Chavez and Crede has a great work ethic.

Alex on the cubs and in the NL central would be a force, but he wants to goto a Contender, which the cubs are not. Also don't forget that Derrek Lee had a career year at age 30, and is coming off an injury to his wrist, hes has a career BA of .276. A wrist injury and a huge contract and little to no protection in that line up(as i see aramis leaving) hes going to get very little to hit.

WizardsofOzzie
10-17-2006, 10:43 AM
I personally like this line at the bottom of the article

"Piniella, who replaces Dusty Baker after the latter's four-season tenure in Chicago, agreed to a three-year deal, with a club option for a fourth, earlier Monday. He has hired most of his coaching staff and has decided, sources say, to retain Cubs pitching coach Larry Rothschild."

Better get the towels ready to throw!!!! Wish we could get a WSI tag with wood and prior throwing towels :redneck

ajismyhero
10-17-2006, 10:53 AM
I would love to see ARod on the Sox next year, and would be a little upset if he ends up at the Cubs. However, I agree with everyone that the Cubs don't really have the pieces to try and acquire him. But, if for some reason, the Yankees decide they can get Prior back to his glory days in 2004 and go through with it, there's a positive spin on it for us. If Prior were to end up the DL again, the Yankees pitching would be shakier than this year - and we play them 10 times in 2007.

oeo
10-17-2006, 11:02 AM
I recall him saying after the Yankees were eliminated that he wanted to stay a Yankee but if they really wanted him gone he'd go.

This is A-Rod were talking about, there's no way he tells the media he wants out. He's not Manny Ramirez...if he says that he wants out, and nothing falls through, that's just another reason for the New York media to be all over him. If he wants out, it's going to go through Boras to the Yankees, he's not going to tell everyone in the world.

EDIT: And now that I think about it...what manager doesn't want Alex Rodriguez on their team? Besides Joe Torre.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 11:09 AM
I wouldn't count on Ramirez opting for FA. He's due $22.5M over the next two years with an $11M option for 2009 that becomes guaranteed if he plays 270 games in 2007-8. You really think someone is going to offer him more than that? I don't.

I agree that the Dodgers don't seem like a good fit. It seems to come down the the White Sox and Angels. What are the Angels likely to offer? Santana probably, but who else? The Yankees will need a 3B and there aren't any good ones on the FA market this year unless Ramirez comes out, and I don't think that's going to happen. Slap-hitters like Izturis don't go over well in NY. It would probably have to be Figgins, and I don't think the Angels will want do go that high.

I think throwing in Broadway is too much unless they get Cabrera also, and I don't see that happening. The Yankees will keep Cabrera as a 4th OF and insurance policy.

I do, i could see him getting 13-15mil a year for the next 4-5, basically what they offered Konerko and then some. Going to a contender like the angels, in a very hispanic friendly market like LA, seems more than appealing. Aramis is only 28, and even though he appears to be lazy at times he has still puts up the numbers for the past 3 years. '06 appears to be his break out year(AVG .291 | HR 38 | RBI 119 | OBP .352 | SLG .561 | 50BB/63SO), and thats after hitting .197 in March and April and .266 in may and being in a very weak cub offense.

I agree with your assessment of the Angels and slap hitters not going over well in NY. Figgins much like our very own Scott Podsednik posted a horrible .336 OBP, and thats just not good. The Yankees already have their lead off hitter and Figgins doesn't have good enough production to play the hot corner, infact his production was so bad this year near the end of the season he was dropped in the order. The angels organization as a whole hasn't been about block buster trades, they're very high on their farm and would rather pay money than raw talent, and i don't see them giving up Ervin Santana.

If your getting Melky and Alex back i have no problem with KW dealing Broadway. I disagree about Melky staying with the Yankees, he is a nice insurance policy but what happened with Matsui and Sheffield is almost like what happened with Frank and Maggs, that type of situation just doesn't present itself that often. I don't see Melky getting 400ABs between Iron Man Matsui, and Damon; to keep him sharp or warrent him being on the 25 man roster. It would be a shot to the kids confidence to go back to AAA and thats wasting resources when you could get pieces that have a decent amount of upside (cotts, tracey) for your future and present to help you win another division title. I think to just to get alex your going to have to give up Garcia + Crede + Broadway, thats just my oppinion though.

The Yankees rotation from mid 07 onward barring injury is very talented and can flat out dominate.

Matz/Zito
Wang
Hughes
Clippard


Add in broadway and they're getting a #3 starter that can give them innings who would be placed in the 5th spot in the rotation in an even better position to succeed.

Flight #24
10-17-2006, 11:15 AM
I wouldn't count on Ramirez opting for FA. He's due $22.5M over the next two years with an $11M option for 2009 that becomes guaranteed if he plays 270 games in 2007-8. You really think someone is going to offer him more than that? I don't.


IMO he'd be a fool not to opt out. $11M for a fairly young 3B who hit .290 with 38HR is at worst market rate. At worst, he could guarantee himself the same annual salary over a longer deal, and IMO he'll get a raise of $1-3M/yr.

Iwritecode
10-17-2006, 11:20 AM
I don't get this quote from the article. Why is it assumed that the Cubs will expand payroll? I don't think the Trib is looking to spend more on teh Cubs.

They drew 3 million people this year and didn't even spend 100 million on payroll. They've got money to burn...

Ol' No. 2
10-17-2006, 11:22 AM
I do, i could see him getting 13-15mil a year for the next 4-5, basically what they offered Konerko and then some. Going to a contender like the angels, in a very hispanic friendly market like LA, seems more than appealing. Aramis is only 28, and even though he appears to be lazy at times he has still puts up the numbers for the past 3 years. '06 appears to be his break out year(AVG .291 | HR 38 | RBI 119 | OBP .352 | SLG .561 | 50BB/63SO), and thats after hitting .197 in March and April and .266 in may and being in a very weak cub offense.

I agree with your assessment of the Angels and slap hitters not going over well in NY. Figgins much like our very own Scott Podsednik posted a horrible .336 OBP, and thats just not good. The Yankees already have their lead off hitter and Figgins doesn't have good enough production to play the hot corner, infact his production was so bad this year near the end of the season he was dropped in the order. The angels organization as a whole hasn't been about block buster trades, they're very high on their farm and would rather pay money than raw talent, and i don't see them giving up Ervin Santana.

If your getting Melky and Alex back i have no problem with KW dealing Broadway. I disagree about Melky staying with the Yankees, he is a nice insurance policy but what happened with Matsui and Sheffield is almost like what happened with Frank and Maggs, that type of situation just doesn't present itself that often. I don't see Melky getting 400ABs between Iron Man Matsui, and Damon; to keep him sharp or warrent him being on the 25 man roster. It would be a shot to the kids confidence to go back to AAA and thats wasting resources when you could get pieces that have a decent amount of upside (cotts, tracey) for your future and present to help you win another division title. I think to just to get alex your going to have to give up Garcia + Crede + Broadway, thats just my oppinion though.

The Yankees rotation from mid 07 onward barring injury is very talented and can flat out dominate.

Matz/Zito
Wang
Hughes
Clippard


Add in broadway and they're getting a #3 starter that can give them innings who would be placed in the 5th spot in the rotation in an even better position to succeed.I just don't see Ramirez getting that kind of payday. He basically disappeared this season when Lee was out. Those kind of dollars go for players who can carry a team, and Ramirez isn't in that category. I'd be shocked if anyone offered him anything more than what he's already due...even the Yankees. He's weak defensively, and putting him next to Jeter would make one of the worst left-side infields in the AL.

Will the Yanks bite on Garcia+Crede? It depends on what other teams are offering, and I don't see anyone bettering that. So getting Cabrera essentially becomes Broadway for Cabrera straight up. I don't think I'd do that.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 11:34 AM
I just don't see Ramirez getting that kind of payday. He basically disappeared this season when Lee was out. Those kind of dollars go for players who can carry a team, and Ramirez isn't in that category. I'd be shocked if anyone offered him anything more than what he's already due...even the Yankees. He's weak defensively, and putting him next to Jeter would make one of the worst left-side infields in the AL.

Will the Yanks bite on Garcia+Crede? It depends on what other teams are offering, and I don't see anyone bettering that. So getting Cabrera essentially becomes Broadway for Cabrera straight up. I don't think I'd do that.

well we will just have to agree to disagree on the Ramirez front :cheers: and time will shortly tell.

Between Garcia + Crede they're only getting 3 years of guaranteed service time compared to alex's 4 actually since he'd be waving his NTC it would be 4 with an option for 5 much like Jim Thome and Vazquez, I'm pretty sure thats how the CBA works. You have to give up Broadway seeing how Garcia becomes a FA in '08 and the Yankees aren't going to deal Alex unless they get a young talented arm(which i consider Lance).

LHP have a lot of value; look what we got for both Marte and milb FA Javy Lopez. Marte had 1 yr left on his contract, Cotts has 3 years in ARB, the throw in is Tracey who could possibly reach his potential in pin stripes, that should be more than enough to acquire the likes of Melky Cabrera who would just be rotting on the Yankee bench till 09 as a 4th OFer.

Lip Man 1
10-17-2006, 11:51 AM
Phil Rogers wrote it best Tuesday:

"The problem with trading for stars like Ichiro, Rodriguez or Tampa Bay's Carl Crawford is that the Cubs don't have a whole lot to trade. The White Sox are much better suited to pull off one of the winter's biggest deals."

Lip

chaerulez
10-17-2006, 12:21 PM
As much as I scoff at a potential Sox A-Rod acquisition, that's not a bad deal, and it helps both teams. The only roadblock is Rodriguez massive salary, which would either force the Sox payroll well over the 120M mark, or force the team to cut salary in other ways. If the Yanks send substantial cash, I'd probably do that deal.

A-Rod on the Cubs is laughable, just like Zito or Soriano on the Cubs. No way does the Cub management blow that kind of massive cash in the offseason, regardless of the press buzz, or what Piniella says. Besides, the Cubs can fill seats with a horrible 90 loss team, so there's no pressure.

Hendry also is trying to re-sign Aramis Ramirez, and he wants to stay a Cub, so he'll likely be off the FA market. Who else besides Ramirez do the Cubs have to deal for A-Rod? Realistically it's only Pie, Hill and Zambrano, and if I were GM, I'd consider "El Nutcase" untouchable. Who'd really take Prior - damaged goods.

Salary would be a wash. A-Rod makes 16 million (Texas will pay him the rest 9). Melky is on automatic resigns at around 500,000. Garcia is set to make 9 (maybe 10?) million for '07 and Crede will get around 7 for arbitration. Cotts would make around another million.

Ol' No. 2
10-17-2006, 12:22 PM
well we will just have to agree to disagree on the Ramirez front :cheers: and time will shortly tell.

Between Garcia + Crede they're only getting 3 years of guaranteed service time compared to alex's 4 actually since he'd be waving his NTC it would be 4 with an option for 5 much like Jim Thome and Vazquez, I'm pretty sure thats how the CBA works. You have to give up Broadway seeing how Garcia becomes a FA in '08 and the Yankees aren't going to deal Alex unless they get a young talented arm(which i consider Lance).

LHP have a lot of value; look what we got for both Marte and milb FA Javy Lopez. Marte had 1 yr left on his contract, Cotts has 3 years in ARB, the throw in is Tracey who could possibly reach his potential in pin stripes, that should be more than enough to acquire the likes of Melky Cabrera who would just be rotting on the Yankee bench till 09 as a 4th OFer.Vazquez' case was different because he invoked his right to demand a trade after being dealt in the middle of a contract. To do that you give up the right to file for free-agency for three years. Otherwise, contract terms don't change when a player is traded. I don't know why the extra year of service for Rodriguez would matter, since they're also unloading an extra year of salary. We're talking about 2010 anyway...Steinbrenner doesn't look that far ahead. He's a poster child for why you don't mortgage the future to win now.

What it will take to get Rodriguez will ultimately depend on what other teams are offering. I see very few teams with the resources to take on that contract, and even fewer who can afford to give up the parts the Yankees need. Garcia+Crede is such an incredibly good fit for them they'd be fools to turn it down. This is going to be interesting to watch, but I'd be very disinclined to give up Broadway. The Sox are going to need young pitching soon, too.

MrX
10-17-2006, 12:26 PM
I was watching Cold Pizza while I was getting dressed this morning and Gene Wojciechowski said they don't have to trade Zambrano. He said Ramirez would be an attractice piece that the Yankees would want. I guess you can trade players without contracts now.:roflmao:

alohafri
10-17-2006, 12:29 PM
Ramirez would in all likelyhood be going to the Yanks.

Lip

I think only if they can negotiate an extension with ARam. The Yankees will not rent a player.

palehozenychicty
10-17-2006, 12:34 PM
I was watching Cold Pizza while I was getting dressed this morning and Gene Wojciechowski said they don't have to trade Zambrano. He said Ramirez would be an attractice piece that the Yankees would want. I guess you can trade players without contracts now.

:roflmao:What a maroon.

Beautox
10-17-2006, 12:57 PM
Vazquez' case was different because he invoked his right to demand a trade after being dealt in the middle of a contract. To do that you give up the right to file for free-agency for three years. Otherwise, contract terms don't change when a player is traded. I don't know why the extra year of service for Rodriguez would matter, since they're also unloading an extra year of salary. We're talking about 2010 anyway...Steinbrenner doesn't look that far ahead. He's a poster child for why you don't mortgage the future to win now.

What it will take to get Rodriguez will ultimately depend on what other teams are offering. I see very few teams with the resources to take on that contract, and even fewer who can afford to give up the parts the Yankees need. Garcia+Crede is such an incredibly good fit for them they'd be fools to turn it down. This is going to be interesting to watch, but I'd be very disinclined to give up Broadway. The Sox are going to need young pitching soon, too.

Thanks for the insight for the cba.

I agree there just aren't alot of teams that are contenders, have the pieces and payroll to take on alex. I think it will come down to Chicago and LA both AL and NL teams.

INSox56
10-17-2006, 01:35 PM
I was watching Cold Pizza while I was getting dressed this morning and Gene Wojciechowski said they don't have to trade Zambrano. He said Ramirez would be an attractice piece that the Yankees would want. I guess you can trade players without contracts now.:roflmao:

What a bunch of tools they have working there, my god... What the hell does that idiot have that crede doesn't? Besides a back problem (which obviously didn't hamper his productivity one damn bit), crede is a better player in any way than ramirez. If they supposedly didn't go for Crede+pitcher, why the hell would they go for JUST RAMIREZ!? friggin laughable

the gooch
10-17-2006, 02:36 PM
Will the Yanks bite on Garcia+Crede? It depends on what other teams are offering, and I don't see anyone bettering that. So getting Cabrera essentially becomes Broadway for Cabrera straight up. I don't think I'd do that.I don't see anybody bettering that, but I don't see the Yankees wanting to give Rodriguez to a team they will see 10 times next year, much less a contender. We may be held ransom for our shortstop needs if Uribe's situation gets worse.

The Sox will need pitching in the near future. After McCarthy and Broadway, I don't see any great starting pitching prospects in our system. I would still do Broadway for Cabrera though, and then turn around and trade one of our aging sluggers for a bullpen arm (or two) and pitching prospects.

Paulie and Thome will give the most value, and I would prefer to go into '07 without one of them. Thome can't hit a damn lefty, and there are tons of tough lefties in our division. He also is a one-dimensional hitter because he can't hit against an infield shift. After his Comeback POY award he should in theory bring us more than we spent to get him.

Paulie isn't the hitter ARod is, but he could get almost as much on the trade front in terms of talent because of his character and value.

Edit: I forgot to mention something else. If you look at ARod's contract, you'll see a ridiculous amount of bonuses. People that are saying he will cost $16.6M/yr are wrong. He can get up to $3M for winnning the MVP award, and he gets at least $1M/yr extra every year because he will always be an all-star, silver slugger, top vote getter, gold glover (maybe), and every other possible award will give him over 6 figures per award each year. If we get him, pencil us in for being on the hook for $20M/yr.

spiffie
10-17-2006, 02:42 PM
What the hell does that idiot have that crede doesn't? Besides a back problem (which obviously didn't hamper his productivity one damn bit)
Joe Crede, Sept. 2006: 179/264/282

I would say that might be someone worn down by something like back trouble.



crede is a better player in any way than ramirez. If they supposedly didn't go for Crede+pitcher, why the hell would they go for JUST RAMIREZ!? friggin laughable
Joe is a better fielder than Ramirez. Joe is not even close to as consistently good a hitter as Ramirez.

GoSox2K3
10-17-2006, 04:45 PM
They drew 3 million people this year and didn't even spend 100 million on payroll. They've got money to burn...

IIRC, the Cubs and Sox payroll this year were both in the mid 90 millions.

So, the Sox draw 3 million and we're hitting a salary limit, but the Cubs draw 3 million and they have "money to burn"? :?: I don't believe that. I also don't believe the Tribune Company, which is losing money overall if I'm not mistaken, will just sink more money into the Cubs.

What would be more legitimate to me is if the Cubs are going to free up a lot of salary money over the winter and have more to spend because of that.

MUsoxfan
10-17-2006, 05:03 PM
IIRC, the Cubs and Sox payroll this year were both in the mid 90 millions.

So, the Sox draw 3 million and we're hitting a salary limit, but the Cubs draw 3 million and they have "money to burn"? :?: I don't believe that. I also don't believe the Tribune Company, which is losing money overall if I'm not mistaken, will just sink more money into the Cubs.

What would be more legitimate to me is if the Cubs are going to free up a lot of salary money over the winter and have more to spend because of that.



The Cubs are part of the Tribune company that doesn't lose money. The Cubs have never come close to spending their limit because of the Wrigley cash machine.


It's all pointless if Hendry continues to spend his money on crap. Bill Veeck once said something like, "How much can you pay a flower to bloom? If you pay a ballplayer $1m to stink, at a salary of $100 he'd be stealing."

dickallen15
10-17-2006, 05:10 PM
A-Rod can't pitch. It might get the Cubs to 85 wins, but nothing more than that.
85 wins may be enough to get you in the WS in the National League

Gregory Pratt
10-17-2006, 05:11 PM
Alex Rodriguez is not going to Wrigley Field unless the Cubs offer Zambrano and Aramis. Prior + Aramis, Hill + Aramis -- the Yankees would be stupid to do it.

It's possible that they're that dumb, but I doubt it.

Jaffar
10-18-2006, 10:31 AM
Let's not forget that KW is "reportedly" is the only GM in bsaeball to call Cashman so far and offered any of the three Garcia/Buehrle/Vasquez. Is KW just driving up the price for other teams so he can make some other deal "under the radar"? I just don't see anybody coming up with a better package then the Sox can.