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View Full Version : It's Official: Piniella is new Cubs manager


chaerulez
10-16-2006, 03:03 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061015cubs,1,1039536.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Much better idea than Bochy, but I guess time will tell if they should've gone with Girardi as now he's likely head to Washington.

goon
10-16-2006, 03:05 PM
yep, what a bone job.

oeo
10-16-2006, 03:06 PM
I really thought they were going to go with Brenley.

Until they put a competitive team on the field, it doesn't matter who is managing...they're not going to do much.

skottyj242
10-16-2006, 03:09 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061015cubs,1,1039536.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Much better idea than Bochy, but I guess time will tell if they should've gone with Girardi as now he's likely head to Washington.

I wouldn't call that official.

Fuller_Schettman
10-16-2006, 03:14 PM
How long before A-Flop joins Lou on da Nort Side?

Over/under is 3 weeks

INSox56
10-16-2006, 03:15 PM
How long before A-Flop joins Lou on da Nort Side?

Over/under is 3 weeks

Is never considered over or under?

chaerulez
10-16-2006, 03:16 PM
I wouldn't call that official.

Not official by the team, but I'm just saying it's a done deal.

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 03:19 PM
I just don't get it. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that the Tribune Co. couldn't care less about winning? All they care about is keeping up the appearance of trying, to keep the sheep coming back for more. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:

jenn2080
10-16-2006, 03:20 PM
I just don't get it. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that the Tribune Co. couldn't care less about winning? All they care about is keeping up the appearance of trying, to keep the sheep coming back for more. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:




I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flight #24
10-16-2006, 03:20 PM
How long before A-Flop joins Lou on da Nort Side?

Over/under is 3 weeks

Only chance they get him is by giving up Zambrano, unless the Yanks are just dumber than stumps and take an assortment of crap from the sale bin for him (Prior, Marshall, Pie, etc.).

I'm quite sure the Cubs would love ARod. I'm also quite sure that short of giving up DLee or Zambrano, they don't have much of interest to other teams in terms of impact talent.

INSox56
10-16-2006, 03:21 PM
I just don't get it. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that the Tribune Co. couldn't care less about winning? All they care about is keeping up the appearance of trying, to keep the sheep coming back for more. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:

I really really find it hard to believe Piniella's words now though. He said he wanted to play for a winner and a team that's ready to go now. I would HARDLY call that ****ty team ready to compete. 1.25 good starters (.25 being Prior's 6 starts next year), zero closer, half a pen, derrek lee, and a debatable ramirez and barrett. That, to me, doesn't exactly make a winner.

oeo
10-16-2006, 03:21 PM
I just don't get it. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that the Tribune Co. couldn't care less about winning? All they care about is keeping up the appearance of trying, to keep the sheep coming back for more. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:

:dunno:

We'll see if he lasts all three years...I say he makes it through the first two before he can't take it anymore.

Britt Burns
10-16-2006, 03:23 PM
The temper tantrums are going to be spectacular!

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 03:25 PM
Only chance they get him is by giving up Zambrano, unless the Yanks are just dumber than stumps and take an assortment of crap from the sale bin for him (Prior, Marshall, Pie, etc.).

I'm quite sure the Cubs would love ARod. I'm also quite sure that short of giving up DLee or Zambrano, they don't have much of interest to other teams in terms of impact talent.What could the Cubs put together that would be better than Garcia and Crede? Zambrano and who? Even if Hendry was dumb enough to give up their only decent starter, there's no way they can put together a package better than what the Sox or Angels might offer.

mjmcend
10-16-2006, 03:30 PM
What could the Cubs put together that would be better than Garcia and Crede? Zambrano and who? Even if Hendry was dumb enough to give up their only decent starter, there's no way they can put together a package better than what the Sox or Angels might offer.

Zambrano and Aramis Rameriz would be a better package than Garcia and Crede. The Cubs would have to be dumber than I think I they are to give up Zambrano though.

Chip Z'nuff
10-16-2006, 03:30 PM
I'll be fair to Pinella. He did a pretty good job at keeping Tampa Bay in the mix. Although they constantly lost, al east had some pretty good talent, they were still a pretty tough team under his leadership. If the cubbies spend the money correctly and lose the boneheads like zambrano they could be very competitive in a very weak division

Chip Z'nuff
10-16-2006, 03:32 PM
The way he schooled Manuel in the 2000 playoffs was an embarassment to us, but a compliment to his ability.

havelj
10-16-2006, 03:32 PM
It's not "official."

It is only being reported by ESPN1000. Live and learn people, until you actually see the press conference, don't believe it - like it or not.

I don't care who gets hired, just be careful of the word, "official."

D. TODD
10-16-2006, 03:34 PM
We'll see how it works out, but on the surface this looks like a quality hire by the Chubs. This also seems to give the indication that they will be heavy players in the free agent market, as sweet Lou wants a chance to contend right away. I can't say I hope it works out for the Chubbies, but a solid hire none the less.

tlebar318
10-16-2006, 03:35 PM
It's not "official."

It is only being reported by ESPN1000. Live and learn people, until you actually see the press conference, don't believe it - like it or not.

I don't care who gets hired, just be careful of the word, "official."

It is on the Tribune Online edition Front Page now too...sounds official to me--I think it was a good hire. I like Lou as a manager...Sox/Cubs World Series in 2007 anyone? :redneck

havelj
10-16-2006, 03:36 PM
Remember this?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/1999/01/22/bears_mcginnis/

Friday January 22, 1999 06:55 PM
LAKE FOREST, Ill. (AP) -- Ignore that announcement about Dave McGinnis being the Chicago Bears (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/bears/index.html)' new coach.
Instead of introducing the Arizona Cardinals (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/cardinals/index.html) defensive coordinator as their 12th head coach, the Bears announced Friday that negotiations had broken down....the Bears sent out a statement this morning saying McGinnis would be introduced as the new coach at an afternoon news conference. But the news conference was delayed for an hour before Ted Phillips, the team's vice president of operations, said there was a delay.

CaptainBallz
10-16-2006, 03:37 PM
Does anyone recall earlier this year when Jaque Jones sold himself and Juan Pierre out and said that they were really swayed to come to the Cubs because of the "loose" coaching style of Dusty Baker?
I don't think that particular team is ready to have a fire lit under their asses and actually win. Say all you want about Dusty, but it was those horse**** players that were losing the games. I guess winning NOW wasn't that important to Lou after all...:?:

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 03:37 PM
Zambrano and Aramis Rameriz would be a better package than Garcia and Crede. The Cubs would have to be dumber than I think I they are to give up Zambrano though.Ramirez has an out clause, allowing him to become a FA after the World Series is over. Of course, that means leaving $22.5M on the table.

CaptainBallz
10-16-2006, 03:38 PM
Sox/Cubs World Series in 2007 anyone? :redneck

:puking:

I'll pass....

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 03:40 PM
It is on the Tribune Online edition Front Page now too...sounds official to me--I think it was a good hire. I like Lou as a manager...Sox/Cubs World Series in 2007 anyone? :redneckhttp://revmike.us/Flying%20Pig.jpg

Chicken Dinner
10-16-2006, 03:40 PM
If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:

About 3 million a year. Pays a lot more than FOX does.

Uncle_Patrick
10-16-2006, 03:43 PM
I really really find it hard to believe Piniella's words now though. He said he wanted to play for a winner and a team that's ready to go now. I would HARDLY call that ****ty team ready to compete. 1.25 good starters (.25 being Prior's 6 starts next year), zero closer, half a pen, derrek lee, and a debatable ramirez and barrett. That, to me, doesn't exactly make a winner.

I was thinking the same thing. I can remember him saying that he didn't want to be part of a team in the middle of rebuilding earlier this year when questioned about the Cubs job.

It was mentioned in a story a week or two ago that some of Piniella's close friends were actually trying to talk him out of considering the Cubs job because the team was not close to being a contender.

Oh well, I guess we can start penning in the Cubs as 2007's World Series Champs soon.

mjmcend
10-16-2006, 03:44 PM
Ramirez has an out clause, allowing him to become a FA after the World Series is over. Of course, that means leaving $22.5M on the table.

I know about the clause. I was assuming that didn't exercize that clause. I have heard rumblings about Ramirez both staying and leaving. Have you (or anyone) heard anything recent about which way he is leaning? It would be a tell-tale sign if he jumped like a rat from a sinking ship.

tlebar318
10-16-2006, 03:44 PM
http://revmike.us/Flying%20Pig.jpg

Nice! :D:

thomas35forever
10-16-2006, 03:46 PM
Good hire, but he's not gonna win here unless he puts some better players on the field.

wdelaney72
10-16-2006, 03:46 PM
Mark Prior + Aramis to NYY for Alex Rodriguez????

WizardsofOzzie
10-16-2006, 03:48 PM
I really really find it hard to believe Piniella's words now though. He said he wanted to play for a winner and a team that's ready to go now. I would HARDLY call that ****ty team ready to compete. 1.25 good starters (.25 being Prior's 6 starts next year), zero closer, half a pen, derrek lee, and a debatable ramirez and barrett. That, to me, doesn't exactly make a winner.

Ding ding ding ding ding!! Just because you bring in the manager dosen't mean he can squeeze a quarter out of a penny

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 03:49 PM
I know about the clause. I was assuming that didn't exercize that clause. I have heard rumblings about Ramirez both staying and leaving. Have you (or anyone) heard anything recent about which way he is leaning? It would be a tell-tale sign if he jumped like a rat from a sinking ship.Pretty hard to leave that much money on the table. I don't see anyone else offering him that much. I don't think he has the option of testing the waters and then deciding. I'm betting he stays.

But when you have only 4-5 players on your team that anyone else might want, it's not a good idea to do a 2-for-1 swap. They need to go the other way. They need to trade one of their good players for a bunch of parts they need, similar to what Kenny did before the 2005 season.

WizardsofOzzie
10-16-2006, 03:49 PM
Mark Prior + Aramis to NYY for Alex Rodriguez????

Garcia > Prior (only because prior is constantly hurt)

Crede > A-ram

spiffie
10-16-2006, 03:50 PM
What could the Cubs put together that would be better than Garcia and Crede? Zambrano and who? Even if Hendry was dumb enough to give up their only decent starter, there's no way they can put together a package better than what the Sox or Angels might offer.
Well, if the Yankees are trying to get younger and cheaper, as implied by their turning down Garcia/Vazquez/Buehrle but being interested in McCarthy, the Cubs could throw a bunch of young pitching at them and hope. It would be an awful move, but if the Cubs offered a package of say Mark Prior, Rich Hill, Carlos Marmol, and one more prospect, the Yanks may be inclined towards that more than a 30 yr old pitcher w/1 year left on a contract and a 3B with a bad back.

Chip Z'nuff
10-16-2006, 03:50 PM
Ding ding ding ding ding!! Just because you bring in the manager dosen't mean he can squeeze a quarter out of a penny

There are minor league divisions tougher than the NL central. It's anybody's race.

WizardsofOzzie
10-16-2006, 03:52 PM
There are minor league divisions tougher than the NL central. It's anybody's race.
True but even IF they cubs were to make the playoffs they won't advance far unless they actually put some talent in the field, and most importantly the mound

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 03:54 PM
Well, if the Yankees are trying to get younger and cheaper, as implied by their turning down Garcia/Vazquez/Buehrle but being interested in McCarthy, the Cubs could throw a bunch of young pitching at them and hope. It would be an awful move, but if the Cubs offered a package of say Mark Prior, Rich Hill, Carlos Marmol, and one more prospect, the Yanks may be inclined towards that more than a 30 yr old pitcher w/1 year left on a contract and a 3B with a bad back.When have the Yankees shown a "build for the future" mentality? Steinbrenner is about winning N-O-W. Prospects don't interest him. They want proven major league players.

BTW, the Yankees never said they were interested in McCarthy. Some doofus at the NY Daily News said it.

spiffie
10-16-2006, 03:56 PM
Garcia > Prior (only because prior is constantly hurt)

Crede > A-ram
The first of these I'll give you. Prior at this point is like buying a Mega Millions ticket. There's a slight chance it'll pay off huge, but most likely you get nothing.

But Crede better than Ramirez...I can't quite go with that. Yes, I know, Joe hustles and Joe slings leather. Ramirez is a lazy bastard and he probably kicks puppies in his spare time. But really:

Crede:
2004: 239/299/418 21 HR (age 26)
2005: 252/303/454 22 HR (age 27)
2006: 283/323/506 30 HR (age 28)
Postseason OPS: .941

Ramirez:
2004: 318/373/578 36 HR 103 RBI (age 26)
2005: 302/358/568 31 HR 92 RBI (age 27)
2006: 291/352/561 38 HR 119 RBI (age 28)
Postseason OPS: .956

I threw the postseason OPS in there just in case the counter-argument is "But Joe Crede is awesome in the postseason!" Ramirez was slightly more productive in his postseason experience.

Hitmen77
10-16-2006, 03:58 PM
The first of these I'll give you. Prior at this point is like buying a Mega Millions ticket. There's a slight chance it'll pay off huge, but most likely you get nothing.

But Crede better than Ramirez...I can't quite go with that. Yes, I know, Joe hustles and Joe slings leather. Ramirez is a lazy bastard and he probably kicks puppies in his spare time. But really:

Crede:
2004: 239/299/418 21 HR (age 26)
2005: 252/303/454 22 HR (age 27)
2006: 283/323/506 30 HR (age 28)
Postseason OPS: .941

Ramirez:
2004: 318/373/578 36 HR 103 RBI (age 26)
2005: 302/358/568 31 HR 92 RBI (age 27)
2006: 291/352/561 38 HR 119 RBI (age 28)
Postseason OPS: .956

I threw the postseason OPS in there just in case the counter-argument is "But Joe Crede is awesome in the postseason!" Ramirez was slightly more productive in his postseason experience.

it sounds like you think defense isn't that important for a 3rd baseman.

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 03:59 PM
The first of these I'll give you. Prior at this point is like buying a Mega Millions ticket. There's a slight chance it'll pay off huge, but most likely you get nothing.

But Crede better than Ramirez...I can't quite go with that. Yes, I know, Joe hustles and Joe slings leather. Ramirez is a lazy bastard and he probably kicks puppies in his spare time. But really:

Crede:
2004: 239/299/418 21 HR (age 26)
2005: 252/303/454 22 HR (age 27)
2006: 283/323/506 30 HR (age 28)
Postseason OPS: .941

Ramirez:
2004: 318/373/578 36 HR 103 RBI (age 26)
2005: 302/358/568 31 HR 92 RBI (age 27)
2006: 291/352/561 38 HR 119 RBI (age 28)
Postseason OPS: .956

I threw the postseason OPS in there just in case the counter-argument is "But Joe Crede is awesome in the postseason!" Ramirez was slightly more productive in his postseason experience.Small edge for Ramirez offensively. Big edge for Crede defensively. No contest. Not having popups bounce off your noggin is good for 20 pts in batting average any time.

spiffie
10-16-2006, 04:00 PM
When have the Yankees shown a "build for the future" mentality? Steinbrenner is about winning N-O-W. Prospects don't interest him. They want proven major league players.

BTW, the Yankees never said they were interested in McCarthy. Some doofus at the NY Daily News said it.
The mid 90's would be the last time. Or recently when they have refused to trade any of their top prospects like Hughes, Cano, Wang or Cabrera. It seems like recently they are trying to at least somewhat rebuild their farm system.

Also, if you consider Hill to be major league ready, as he appeared to be in 2006, that would give them 2 pitchers who could theoretically step into their rotation right now.

WizardsofOzzie
10-16-2006, 04:00 PM
it sounds like you think defense isn't that important for a 3rd baseman.

beat me to it.....Thats almost the main reason i'd pick crede over a-ram. A team like the yankees dosen't need more power.....they got guys hitting below the 6 spot that would hit cleanup on other teams. That huge hole that have at 3rd on the other hand.....

palehozenychicty
10-16-2006, 04:00 PM
[quote=Ol' No. 2;1386468]When have the Yankees shown a "build for the future" mentality? [quote]

When the Yankees returned to prominence in the early to mid 1990s, Stick Michael and Bob Watson built the farm system from the ground up, producing Jeter, Posada, Rivera, et.al. . Of course, this only happened when Steinbrenner was suspended from MLB. Today, they have a couple players waiting in the wings..Hughes, Tabatha. That's it, though.

Chip Z'nuff
10-16-2006, 04:00 PM
True but even IF they cubs were to make the playoffs they won't advance far unless they actually put some talent in the field, and most importantly the mound
See that's the thing. Pinella is a playoff manager. By the time the playoffs arrive everyone is running on adreneline and anyone can win. Do you remember the way he ran 40 year old Ricky Henderson around on us in 2000? It was brutal.

WizardsofOzzie
10-16-2006, 04:02 PM
Small edge for Ramirez offensively. Big edge for Crede defensively. No contest. Not having popups bounce off your noggin is good for 20 pts in batting average any time.

Amen!!

spiffie
10-16-2006, 04:04 PM
Small edge for Ramirez offensively. Big edge for Crede defensively. No contest. Not having popups bounce off your noggin is good for 20 pts in batting average any time.
It's a small edge in a career year for Crede. Aramis has shown he can produce that year in and year out. For most of Joe's career he has been much more the Crede of 2004 and 2005. If Joe is going to be a consistent 290/330/520 guy the next 5-7 years and maintain that defense despite his supposed back problems then I agree, I'd take the not-insane Crede over Ramirez any day of the week. But until Joe shows he can consistently produce at that level, I'll take the extra 160 or so OPS that Aramis gives if Crede backslides at all.

mjmcend
10-16-2006, 04:08 PM
Commenting on the topic of the thread, this was a chicken **** move that the Cubs made famous. Lou is notorious for his impatience, temper, and poor relations with young players. Girardi was the bold choice that could turn out to be a spectacular failure but is more likely to help the club rebuild. Large corporations abhor risk. Lou is just a big name that the Trib can point to and say 'what do you want, we got the biggest name out there' when the Cubs disappoint again.

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 04:09 PM
It's a small edge in a career year for Crede. Aramis has shown he can produce that year in and year out. For most of Joe's career he has been much more the Crede of 2004 and 2005. If Joe is going to be a consistent 290/330/520 guy the next 5-7 years and maintain that defense despite his supposed back problems then I agree, I'd take the not-insane Crede over Ramirez any day of the week. But until Joe shows he can consistently produce at that level, I'll take the extra 160 or so OPS that Aramis gives if Crede backslides at all.There are some players who I'd worry about backsliding, but Crede isn't one of them. All through his career he's shown he can hit. Even during his two down years, if you look you'll find he had more good months than bad ones. The large $$ difference settles it. Given a choice, it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 04:10 PM
Commenting on the topic of the thread, this was a chicken **** move that the Cubs made famous. Lou is notorious for his impatience, temper, and poor relations with young players. Girardi was the bold choice that could turn out to be a spectacular failure but is more likely to help the club rebuild. Large corporations abhor risk. Lou is just a big name that the Trib can point to and say 'what do you want, we got the biggest name out there' when the Cubs disappoint again.Bingo. This is a lot more about marketing to the sheep than about winning.

FielderJones
10-16-2006, 04:14 PM
I wouldn't call that official.

How about this (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061016cubspiniella,1,1078765.story)?

itsnotrequired
10-16-2006, 04:15 PM
How about this (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061016cubspiniella,1,1078765.story)?

How about this quote from the above article?

No official announcement has yet been made, but Piniella is expected to be presented to the media as the next Cubs manager on Tuesday at Wrigley Field.

WizardsofOzzie
10-16-2006, 04:15 PM
How about this (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061016cubspiniella,1,1078765.story)?
An obvious photoshop job

FielderJones
10-16-2006, 04:19 PM
How about this quote from the above article?

How about this one:

The Cubs and Lou Piniella have come to terms on a three-year deal worth an estimated $9 million

itsnotrequired
10-16-2006, 04:38 PM
How about this one:

Oh, no doubt this is a 99.9% done deal. I'm just saying it isn't technically official yet.

havelj
10-16-2006, 04:43 PM
"...the Bears sent out a statement this morning saying McGinnis would be introduced as the new coach at an afternoon news conference."

JohnTucker0814
10-16-2006, 04:53 PM
"...the Bears sent out a statement this morning saying McGinnis would be introduced as the new coach at an afternoon news conference."

Where is that guy now anyways? Seriously?

spiffie
10-16-2006, 04:56 PM
There are some players who I'd worry about backsliding, but Crede isn't one of them. All through his career he's shown he can hit. Even during his two down years, if you look you'll find he had more good months than bad ones. The large $$ difference settles it. Given a choice, it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.
That I'll grant is a major difference. Of course, it is only valid for another 2 years at most.

As for the month by months...
2006 OPS by month (Apr-Sep): 910/775/857/911/931/546
2005 OPS by month (Apr-Sep): 824/496/871/893/320/1.178
2004 OPS by month (Apr-Sep): 649/607/1.018/495/711/833
2003 OPS by month (Apr-Sep): 575/602/666/772/1.051/761

So out of a 24 month sample we have:
months below 600: 5
months between 600-700: 4
months between 700-800: 4
months between 800-900: 5
months between 900-1.000: 3
months over 1.000: 3

So basically 1/2 of the time he's below-average to average, 1/3 of the time he's average to above average, and 1/8 of the time he's way above average/excellent.

Perhaps being a bit nicer, those numbers with only 2004-2006 (18 months) included:
months below 600: 4
months between 600-700: 2
months between 700-800: 2
months between 800-900: 5
months between 900-1.000: 3
months over 1.000: 2

Really doesn't change much. Half the time he's below-average to average, half the time he's average to above-average. And 1/9 of the time he's a world beater.

SpartanSoxFan
10-16-2006, 05:10 PM
It will be interesting to see what unfolds in the next few months once free agency begins. If the Flubbs do nothing to improve their roster and rest their laurels on Wood and Prior being healthy, this will be Tampa Bay for Pinella all over again. If they go out and pick up a bona fide starter in the mold of a Zito or a Schmidt, plus another hitter to protect Lee and Ramierez, they might have a good season. I say might, because, after all, we are talking about the Flubbs here.

havelj
10-16-2006, 05:14 PM
He's with the Titans.
Dave needs a little sunscreen:

http://www.titansonline.com/team/coaches/staff.php?PRKey=5

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 05:16 PM
That I'll grant is a major difference. Of course, it is only valid for another 2 years at most.

As for the month by months...
2006 OPS by month (Apr-Sep): 910/775/857/911/931/546
2005 OPS by month (Apr-Sep): 824/496/871/893/320/1.178
2004 OPS by month (Apr-Sep): 649/607/1.018/495/711/833
2003 OPS by month (Apr-Sep): 575/602/666/772/1.051/761

So out of a 24 month sample we have:
months below 600: 5
months between 600-700: 4
months between 700-800: 4
months between 800-900: 5
months between 900-1.000: 3
months over 1.000: 3

So basically 1/2 of the time he's below-average to average, 1/3 of the time he's average to above average, and 1/8 of the time he's way above average/excellent.

Perhaps being a bit nicer, those numbers with only 2004-2006 (18 months) included:
months below 600: 4
months between 600-700: 2
months between 700-800: 2
months between 800-900: 5
months between 900-1.000: 3
months over 1.000: 2

Really doesn't change much. Half the time he's below-average to average, half the time he's average to above-average. And 1/9 of the time he's a world beater.OPS tends to favor HR hitters. Joe is not a HR hitter - he's more of a doubles hitter. For someone like him, I wouldn't consider 800 "average". But he does put up a lot of RBI from a relatively unfavorable position in the lineup.

In 2006 he hit .275 or better every month except September. In 2005, despite an overall .252 average, he hit .300 in three of the six months and .275 or better in four.

Mohoney
10-16-2006, 05:17 PM
I just don't get it. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that the Tribune Co. couldn't care less about winning? All they care about is keeping up the appearance of trying, to keep the sheep coming back for more. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:

Maybe Lou wants a challenge, and there isn't one out there much more monumental than trying to win with the Cubs.

veeter
10-16-2006, 05:18 PM
After the way he managed for Seattle against us, I was very impressed with him. But, until last year, I had never heard the guy even say his name. So when he was going to commentary I braced myself for his baseball acumen. You know what? I'm not that impressed. He kind of just speaks the obvious.

MeteorsSox4367
10-16-2006, 05:19 PM
Given Piniella's fiery personality and the fact that the Cubs have some horse&$#! and/or lazy players (Hi, Aramis. How are you?), I can't wait for the first six-game losing streak to the Pirates and Brewers next season.

Piniella will make Lee Elia sound like Ned Flanders.

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 05:20 PM
It will be interesting to see what unfolds in the next few months once free agency begins. If the Flubbs do nothing to improve their roster and rest their laurels on Wood and Prior being healthy, this will be Tampa Bay for Pinella all over again. If they go out and pick up a bona fide starter in the mold of a Zito or a Schmidt, plus another hitter to protect Lee and Ramierez, they might have a good season. I say might, because, after all, we are talking about the Flubbs here.They're a lot more than just a few players away. Look at that roster and find more than 6 players you'd want. Half their starters should be bench players.

havelj
10-16-2006, 05:20 PM
Chat transcript from Gary Gillette, editor of The 2006 ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia, an ESPN.com MLB Insider and the Co-Chair of SABR Business of Baseball Committee:

"Piniella is overrated as a manager, and his Billy-Martin style of goading and scolding his players probably won't go over well in Chicago with the players. But it will be a hit with the Chi-town media, as Lou will probably generate lots of cheesy headlines. The Cubs need someone who understands how to build a winner with patience and teaching, not someone whose idea of motivation is kicking over the clubhouse buffet table. I think Piniella is overrated because of exactly what you point out--he carries the mantle of "WINNER" and therefore his weaknesses are overlooked by desperate teams who think they need a proven WINNER."

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 05:22 PM
Chat transcript from Gary Gillette, editor of The 2006 ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia, an ESPN.com MLB Insider and the Co-Chair of SABR Business of Baseball Committee:

"Piniella is overrated as a manager, and his Billy-Martin style of goading and scolding his players probably won't go over well in Chicago with the players. But it will be a hit with the Chi-town media, as Lou will probably generate lots of cheesy headlines. The Cubs need someone who understands how to build a winner with patience and teaching, not someone whose idea of motivation is kicking over the clubhouse buffet table. I think Piniella is overrated because of exactly what you point out--he carries the mantle of "WINNER" and therefore his weaknesses are overlooked by desperate teams who think they need a proven WINNER.":KW What's wrong with kicking over the buffet table?

MUsoxfan
10-16-2006, 05:25 PM
"Piniella is overrated as a manager, and his Billy-Martin style of goading and scolding his players probably won't go over well in Chicago with the players. But it will be a hit with the Chi-town media, as Lou will probably generate lots of cheesy headlines. "

Good. I hope he takes some of the heat off Ozzie

spiffie
10-16-2006, 05:35 PM
They're a lot more than just a few players away. Look at that roster and find more than 6 players you'd want. Half their starters should be bench players.
Lee
Ramirez
Murton
Hill
Prior (he's still young and fairly cheap. Stick him on the DL and make him truly fix whatever's wrong with him for an entire year.)
Eyre

Dang. I guess six is the max that would be worthwhile :D:

spiffie
10-16-2006, 05:43 PM
OPS tends to favor HR hitters. Joe is not a HR hitter - he's more of a doubles hitter. For someone like him, I wouldn't consider 800 "average". But he does put up a lot of RBI from a relatively unfavorable position in the lineup.
Actually, the numbers do not bear that out at all regarding Joe and doubles/HR's.
2004: 25 doubles, 21 HR
2005: 21 doubles, 22 HR
2006: 31 doubles, 30 HR

If anything OPS is probably the kindest number to use for Joe, since his BA is never all that high, and his OBP is never anything to look at.

In 2006 he hit .275 or better every month except September. In 2005, despite an overall .252 average, he hit .300 in three of the six months and .275 or better in four.
True, but much like Juan Pierre, if he can't hit his way on, he's not getting on base at all. In 2006 he had an OBP over .325 two out of six months. In 2005 he did crack that number 4 times, but that is tempered by two months that were .148 and .211 respectively.

For Joe to maintain anything close to the year he had last year he will basically have to hit .300 as he did from April through August last year. If he can do that then he will be an upper echelon player for years to come. Problem is that until the first half of last year he's shown no ability to that. Do you think Joe Crede will be a consistent .300 hitter for the next 5-7 years?

Ol' No. 2
10-16-2006, 06:10 PM
Actually, the numbers do not bear that out at all regarding Joe and doubles/HR's.
2004: 25 doubles, 21 HR
2005: 21 doubles, 22 HR
2006: 31 doubles, 30 HR

If anything OPS is probably the kindest number to use for Joe, since his BA is never all that high, and his OBP is never anything to look at.


True, but much like Juan Pierre, if he can't hit his way on, he's not getting on base at all. In 2006 he had an OBP over .325 two out of six months. In 2005 he did crack that number 4 times, but that is tempered by two months that were .148 and .211 respectively.

For Joe to maintain anything close to the year he had last year he will basically have to hit .300 as he did from April through August last year. If he can do that then he will be an upper echelon player for years to come. Problem is that until the first half of last year he's shown no ability to that. Do you think Joe Crede will be a consistent .300 hitter for the next 5-7 years?I would expect Joe to be consistently in the .280-.300 range over the next few years (barring back problems). Add in the glove and I'll take that over Ramirez any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Edit: He's also giving them 70 RBI in a poor year hitting near the bottom of the order, and as far as I'm concerned, that's a better indicator than any of the averages.

Lip Man 1
10-16-2006, 06:22 PM
In three years the Cubs will be looking again for another 'savior.' This is a team with some young players who may or may not be good...so what do they do, hire a manager who doesn't like playing kids. (a la Baker...)

BRILLIANT!

Lip

23Ventura
10-16-2006, 06:40 PM
Piniella will make Lee Elia sound like Ned Flanders.
I can't wait for this.

soxinem1
10-16-2006, 06:58 PM
I just don't get it. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that the Tribune Co. couldn't care less about winning? All they care about is keeping up the appearance of trying, to keep the sheep coming back for more. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:

The bigger question is, why did Lou refuse to interview for the Nationals job (with a new park coming soon, and new revenue) because they were 'building for the future', to go to Piggley Field?

Does he actually think they are only a player or two away? I know the NL Central is weak, but c'mon, Lou, use your head!

PS. I sure hope he doesn't prove us all idiots and lead them to a World Series after ripping into this decision.

Dick Allen
10-16-2006, 07:14 PM
Whatever the case, the brain-dead local media will be shoving Piniella-P down our throats.

mjmcend
10-16-2006, 07:18 PM
Whatever the case, the brain-dead local media will be shoving Piniella-P down our throats.

And the equally brain-dead Cub fans will eat it up as if he the 2nd coming.

And Piniella's outburts and craziness will be reported as 'firery' and 'gutsy' and other such moronic buzzwords. And Ozzie's behavior will still be compared to that of Miami's football team and he will be listed as a danger to small children, puppies, and decency.

WizardsofOzzie
10-16-2006, 07:18 PM
Does he actually think they are only a player or two away? I know the NL Central is weak, but c'mon, Lou, use your head!

Maybe that year off made him forget how bad the Cubs were.....or even possibly that he bought into the media hype about how good the cubs were, and since he wasn't in the game everyday, how would he know :smile:

WizardsofOzzie
10-16-2006, 07:19 PM
And the equally brain-dead Cub fans will eat it up as if he the 2nd coming.

And Piniella's outburts and craziness will be reported as 'firery' and 'gutsy' and other such moronic buzzwords. And Ozzie's behavior will still be compared to that of Miami's football team and he will be listed as a danger to small children, puppies, and decency.
Don't forget minorities and homosexuals

oeo
10-16-2006, 07:23 PM
PS. I sure hope he doesn't prove us all idiots and lead them to a World Series after ripping into this decision.

With that "team", there's nothing to worry about. It'll take a miracle for them to win a championship with that.

HotelWhiteSox
10-16-2006, 07:53 PM
Looks like he won't have to look for anymore wallets.

Looks like they wanted the big name, I thought Girardi would be a good fit, Loria basically handed it to them. Hope they just get it over with though, am sick of the mediagasm has had about this, even talking more about this search more than the Bears, as if it really matters.

The dumbest thing is how some media members think (have actually said) this automatically means the Cubs get ARod. When thinking Arod deals, some haven't even mentioned the Sox. And please, not this 'ooo can't wait for the tirades!' garbage. That's why you hire a manager? Seems fishy he couldn't find work, and players on a sucky DRay team were talking bad about him. Well we already got 'fiery', we got the ring, and now the TV ratings, enjoy 2nd fiddle flubbies

PKalltheway
10-16-2006, 09:37 PM
There are minor league divisions tougher than the NL central. It's anybody's race. Except the Pirates.
Fixed your post.:redneck The NL Central may be bad, but I don't see the Pirates coming within light years of contention for at the very least, another 5 years. They're an AWFUL, AWFUL team.

I don't comment on the Cubs a whole lot on here, mostly because I'm indifferent towards them BUT, as far as the Piniella hire goes, it's a decent one. Some people say that Girardi would have been a better hire, but think about this. The Cubs would be expecting Girardi to do the same thing in Chicago as he did in Florida. When he falls below those expectations, they'll run him out of town. I don't think Girardi is ready for that kind of pressure. The Cubs wouldn't nearly have as much pressure to go out and build a winner under Girardi as much as they would Piniella. With Girardi, the Cubs would say "He's good with young talent. Let's see how he'll do." Then the Cubs would just consistently get young talent that will never pan out, all the while continuing to rack up losing season after losing season. Washington may be a better fit for Girardi.

I don't think the Cubs would pull a Tampa Bay on Lou, saying that they're trying to build a winner when they clearly weren't. The Cubs have a lot more money than Tampa does, and you always hear them mentioned when a big free agent name comes out onto the market. Of course, this argument will be null and void as long as they have Wood and Prior in their rotation. Maybe Lou will pressure the organization into getting rid of them. Maybe when the Cubs have a fiery manager pressuring their front office into building a winner, they'll listen. Remember what Ozzie told Kenny Williams? "I can't run the Kentucky Derby with donkeys. Get me some horses." Now, of course I don't want to see the Cubs win (the last thing I want to see are more stupid-ass Cub fans), but that's just my take on the situation. Things are gonna be quite interesting on the North Side over the next couple of years...

DC Sox Fan
10-16-2006, 10:13 PM
:hawk

"Sweet Lou is not gonna be a happy camper"

SoxFan78
10-17-2006, 01:18 PM
Is it just me or does Sweet Lou sound like James Stewart during his press conference??

palehozenychicty
10-17-2006, 01:40 PM
Maybe that year off made him forget how bad the Cubs were.....or even possibly that he bought into the media hype about how good the cubs were, and since he wasn't in the game everyday, how would he know :smile:

Which is curious as well since he sat in the booth for the Cubs-Sox matchup at Wrigley this season and broadcast several other games on the southside for Fox. It's fine by me. They will continue losing, and the Sox will rebound in a big way. Book it.

soxinem1
10-17-2006, 01:45 PM
Is it just me or does Sweet Lou sound like James Stewart during his press conference??

Yes, ah, ah, ah, he is, ah, ah, ah.

I like that, ah, ah, ah, reference about 'Bringing a championship to Chicago'.

Hello, Lou, what about the 2005 White Sox?

tebman
10-17-2006, 02:35 PM
I just don't get it. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that the Tribune Co. couldn't care less about winning? All they care about is keeping up the appearance of trying, to keep the sheep coming back for more. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:

I was on the train this morning and saw someone holding a Tribune sports section with an enormous picture of Piniella printed in soft tones like the sacred paintings in the Vatican, overlaid with an equally enormous headline announcing His Arrival.

Give me a break.

Piniella is a hard-bitten baseball competitor. The many-headed Hydra that is the Tribune only competes with its last quarterly statement. Unless Piniella really has gotten old and wants to settle into a comfortable and mediocre retirement, I don't know why he would take that job.

Rather than rant any further, I'll quote from the late Chicago author Nelson Algren. This was on the cubune.com (http://www.cubune.com/) website:

A half century ago, the great Chicago author Nelson Algren noticed that the Chicago Tribune skews its portrayal of Chicago in order to promote its own interests. In his landmark essay “Chicago: City on the Make,” Algren writes that the Tribune has a “trick of substituting counterfeit values for true ones” in order to fool readers into believing that the Tribune’s peculiar perspective is the one and only truth. We’ll get into the details of how that works in a moment. First, a word about the results. According to Algren, this Tribune trickery promotes mediocrity: “Mediocrity is wanted. Mediocrity is solicited. Mediocrity is honored.”

IlliniSox4Life
10-17-2006, 03:57 PM
An excerpt from Piniella's press conference went something like this (not exactly word for word):


Piniella: You see what they did in Detroit. How quickly they turned a team around. That's really what we'd like to do here. They did the same thing on the North Side a couple years ago.
Reporters: You mean South Side.
Piniella: Yeah, South Side (laughs)

Way to know your team Lou. I mean, it's not that big of a deal and he got signed pretty quickly, but would anyone say that the Mets play in the Bronx?

palehozenychicty
10-17-2006, 04:17 PM
Piniella: You see what they did in Detroit. How quickly they turned a team around. That's really what we'd like to do here. They did the same thing on the North Side a couple years ago.
Reporters: You mean South Side.
Piniella: Yeah, South Side (laughs)

Way to know your team Lou. I mean, it's not that big of a deal and he got signed pretty quickly, but would anyone say that the Mets play in the Bronx?

He won't be laughing after the Southside team kicks his team's tail yet again. :D:

TDog
10-17-2006, 04:19 PM
An excerpt from Piniella's press conference went something like this (not exactly word for word):


Piniella: You see what they did in Detroit. How quickly they turned a team around. That's really what we'd like to do here. They did the same thing on the North Side a couple years ago.
Reporters: You mean South Side.
Piniella: Yeah, South Side (laughs)

Way to know your team Lou. I mean, it's not that big of a deal and he got signed pretty quickly, but would anyone say that the Mets play in the Bronx?

His grasp of history seems tenuous as well. Yes, the White Sox won the World Series six years after finishing below .500 and only 16 seasons after finishing in last place. Piniella probably considers the 2000 Sox a last place team, though, the way his Mariners rolled past them in the ALDS.

The fact is that this will be the sixth straight season that a new World Series champion will be crowned. Winning a World Series isn't something you just go out and do. The Cubs have guaranteed December excitement that will propell them to another successful ticket-selling season. Such excitement has not been known to Cubs fans since Dusty Baker came to town, and we recall he transformed the fifth-place Cubs into the team that came within five outs of going to the World Series for the first time in almost six decades.

If I made predictions, I would predict that some will be predicting the Cubs will win the World Series in 2007.

tebman
10-17-2006, 04:23 PM
If I made predictions, I would predict that some will be predicting the Cubs will win the World Series in 2007.

:morrisey
"You called?"

Cuck the Fubs
10-17-2006, 04:50 PM
An excerpt from Piniella's press conference went something like this (not exactly word for word):


Piniella: You see what they did in Detroit. How quickly they turned a team around. That's really what we'd like to do here. They did the same thing on the North Side a couple years ago.
Reporters: You mean South Side.
Piniella: Yeah, South Side (laughs)

Way to know your team Lou. I mean, it's not that big of a deal and he got signed pretty quickly, but would anyone say that the Mets play in the Bronx?

This was hands down my favorite part of the news conference!

CaptainBallz
10-17-2006, 05:51 PM
Piniella: You see what they did in Detroit. How quickly they turned a team around. That's really what we'd like to do here. They did the same thing on the North Side a couple years ago.
Reporters: You mean South Side.
Piniella: Yeah, South Side (laughs)



He said the same thing on the Score this morning. It's obviously a bit of geography that he just doesn't know yet.
I won't harp on this though. The guy just got himself into a bigger mess than he ever thought possible..

LuvSox
10-18-2006, 12:02 AM
Fox news just lead off with Sweet Lou. ***? Nice newscast.

areilly
10-18-2006, 01:16 AM
An excerpt from Piniella's press conference went something like this (not exactly word for word):


Piniella: You see what they did in Detroit. How quickly they turned a team around. That's really what we'd like to do here. They did the same thing on the North Side a couple years ago.
Reporters: You mean South Side.
Piniella: Yeah, South Side (laughs)

Way to know your team Lou. I mean, it's not that big of a deal and he got signed pretty quickly, but would anyone say that the Mets play in the Bronx?


Sox fans, know thy enemy: there actually was a pretty quick turnaround on the North Side a couple years ago.

2002 Cubs: 67-95 (5th place)
2003 Cubs: 88-74 (1st; took NLDS; lost NLCS)

Myrtle72
10-18-2006, 01:25 AM
I think I just heard the the ESPN news crew say, "Quite possibly the best job in all of ML Baseball... the manager of the Chicago Cubs..."

Huh!?

MUsoxfan
10-18-2006, 01:36 AM
I think I just heard the the ESPN news crew say, "Quite possibly the best job in all of ML Baseball... the manager of the Chicago Cubs..."

Huh!?


Did you listen to the explanation? Did you hear the guy say it's only the best job because there is no expectation of winning? It's always best to listen to explanations:wink:

Myrtle72
10-18-2006, 01:40 AM
Did you listen to the explanation? Did you hear the guy say it's only the best job because there is no expectation of winning? It's always best to listen to explanations:wink:

Did they really say that?

No, I didn't listen - I stoped listening after I heard that.

MUsoxfan
10-18-2006, 01:42 AM
Did they really say that?

No, I didn't listen - I stoped listening after I heard that.

Yeah, he was actually making fun of the Cubs

DrCrawdad
10-18-2006, 09:07 AM
Sox fans, know thy enemy: there actually was a pretty quick turnaround on the North Side a couple years ago.

2002 Cubs: 67-95 (5th place)
2003 Cubs: 88-74 (1st; took NLDS; lost NLCS)

When will the Sox win the AL Central with a lousy 88 wins?

spiffie
10-18-2006, 10:42 AM
When will the Sox win the AL Central with a lousy 88 wins?
Well, if they would have won 88 games in 1997 they would have had 2 more wins than Cleveland, who won with 86. Other than 1998, when Cleveland won with 89, the AL Central winner has always had at least 90 wins.

Lip Man 1
10-18-2006, 11:21 AM
According to Rick Morrissey's column today Tribune Company has authorized raising the Cubs payroll to 115 million. That would be an increase of about 15 million.

Lip

southside rocks
10-18-2006, 11:24 AM
According to Rick Morrissey's column today Tribune Company has authorized raising the Cubs payroll to 115 million. That would be an increase of about 15 million.

Lip

Closer to a $20 mil increase, I believe -- their payroll in 2006 was $94.8 million.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=chc

Kerry Wood heads the payroll roster with a salary of $12 million. Mind-blowing. :tongue:

lumpyspun
10-18-2006, 11:28 AM
I think I just heard the the ESPN news crew say, "Quite possibly the best job in all of ML Baseball... the manager of the Chicago Cubs..."

Huh!?

Tell that to Lee Elia...for anyone who has never heard his tirade from 1983 it is quite possibly one of the funniest rants in baseball history, at least recorded history. Here is the link for it, and it includes the audio....BEWARE...there are many, many, curse words...

http://www.speakeasy.org/~bucky/elia_tirade.html

palehozenychicty
10-18-2006, 11:38 AM
According to Rick Morrissey's column today Tribune Company has authorized raising the Cubs payroll to 115 million. That would be an increase of about 15 million.

Lip


That's nice and all, but we know the kind of upgrades that they will make. Nil.

spiffie
10-18-2006, 11:50 AM
That's nice and all, but we know the kind of upgrades that they will make. Nil.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a big desperation move and pick up a Zito or a Soriano. The tv ratings news is the sort of thing that I'm sure made a lot of folks up in Tribco pissed off. They may be so desperate to get back on "top" in this city that they spare no expense within reason. And really, considering Bronson Arroyo's year this year, I have to think Zito in the NL could have an ERA around 2.00.

palehozenychicty
10-18-2006, 01:13 PM
Actually I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a big desperation move and pick up a Zito or a Soriano. The tv ratings news is the sort of thing that I'm sure made a lot of folks up in Tribco pissed off. They may be so desperate to get back on "top" in this city that they spare no expense within reason. And really, considering Bronson Arroyo's year this year, I have to think Zito in the NL could have an ERA around 2.00.

I find it hard to believe that either guy would want to play on the Northside. The Cubs do have the cash, but they have so many other needs that a Soriano/Zito would only put them in third place. Period.

spiffie
10-18-2006, 01:21 PM
I find it hard to believe that either guy would want to play on the Northside. The Cubs do have the cash, but they have so many other needs that a Soriano/Zito would only put them in third place. Period.
People do dumb things when you offer them $75-90 million dollars.

And for the Cubs 3rd place would be plenty. They don't need to win, just be decent enough to let the mindless sheep believe they can go all the way and snap up the tickets as usual.

wdelaney72
10-18-2006, 01:46 PM
The Cubs will sign one of the FA pitchers, but it won't be enough. They'll do just enough to make the team look better, but fall short in actually doing so. Or they'll do something stupid, like trade away the only consistency in their pitching staff to NY for Alex Rodriguez.

Keep in mind, the NL has the Cardinals and Mets, who have suffered a lot of injuries. As bad as the NL was this year, there is an offseason to rest and get healthy. No, they still won't be as good as the AL elite, but they'll still be better than the Cubs.

Barry Zito has Cubs written all over him.

minutia
10-18-2006, 02:21 PM
I just don't get it. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that the Tribune Co. couldn't care less about winning? All they care about is keeping up the appearance of trying, to keep the sheep coming back for more. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to Pinella, and why would he take such a job...especially when others are available?:?:

Very well put. I am somewhat baffled by Pinella's decision. As far as the Cubs, Dusty was a marquee coach for them too and that all amounted to nothing.

PKalltheway
10-18-2006, 04:16 PM
http://www.speakeasy.org/~bucky/elia_tirade.html
That gets funnier every time I hear it!:rolling: I can't wait until ol' Lou goes off like this!

TDog
10-18-2006, 09:41 PM
When Dusty Baker came to the Cubs, the buzz among fans was that the Cubs would sign the big free agents because everyone wanted to play for Dusty Baker.

I've heard this song before. Jim Thome looked great in Cubs blue, didn't he?