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View Full Version : Will the bullpen be good enough?


HawkDJ
03-02-2002, 01:49 PM
The bullpen is the only thing that worries me about the Sox. They have good players in there but many are coming back from surgery (Osuna,Wunsh,Barcelo) and there is only one lefty in there. The only solution to that would be bring up Malone but I wouldn't like that. I think if everyone can pitch as good as their potential than we will be fine but I don't know if that will happen. What do you think? Is the bullpen good enough to bring the Sox to the AL central title or farther?

MaggPipes
03-02-2002, 02:25 PM
i have faith in th pen....what i am most excited about is that Rauch should step into the starting rotation mid-year!

MisterB
03-02-2002, 04:19 PM
The bullpen worries me, too. In terms of ML experience and proven performance it looks really thin past Foulke.
Consider the candidates:

Foulke - experienced, proven
Howry - experienced, coming off bad year
Wunsch - inexperienced, coming off injury
Osuna - experienced, coming off injury
Barcelo - inexperienced, coming off injury
Biddle - inexperienced
Ginter - inexperienced
Glover - inexperienced
Jacquez - inexperienced
Kohlmeier - inexperienced
Masaoka - inexperienced

Seems like an awful lot of question marks to me...

MattSharp
03-02-2002, 06:09 PM
I think the Sox are deep though. I think that losing Simas and Lowe was a big blow. I think Foulke, Howry, Osuna, and Glover are gonna get it done. If Barcelo and Wunsch are healthy I think the Sox can have one of the Top 5 bullpens in the AL.

baggio202
03-02-2002, 06:15 PM
losing lowe was huge imo...all he ever did was whatever was asked of him..save a game..5 innings of long relief..set up foulke...start games for a while....thats not easy to replace...

plus take foulke's stats out of the mix and pretty much any combination of players likely to fill out the bullpen will have a combined era over 5 from last years stats....some of it was from poor performance..others because they were pitching with injuries that required surgery...either way...there are alot of questions to be answered...

in 2000 the bullpen was a real strength....alot of things have to go right this year for our bullpen to perform as good as it did in '00...its a key for this team...doesnt matter how good foulke is if we cant get from the starter to him w/o losing the lead...

Lip Man 1
03-02-2002, 10:43 PM
Folks:

When talking about the bullpen and how good it will be, it's important to consider two areas....

1.) Health: A lot of fans are just automatically assuming that all of the injured pitchers (both starters and relief guys) will be just as good as before. And they might, BUT will they ALL be 100% by April 1st. As an example look at Howry and how his velocity dropped off last season (the year after his shoulder surgery). Most doctors say a full year to 18 months before you are back to the way you were before an arm injury.

2.) Left Handers: Already on today's game John and Ed were talking about the left handers out of the pen. The Japanese pitcher (Sorry, I can't remember his last name) was so bad on Friday that Farmer said he's in danger of getting cut! That he'd have to perform much better in his next two or three outings. Wunsch could be a fluke and he's coming off surgery and Malone (?) is completely inexperienced. If I was our intrepid GM, I'd be on the phone with the A's. They have three experienced left handers and according to The Sporting News, will be looking to deal one to a "lefty poor" club. (That's the Sox for sure!) Of course, the club won't do that because picking up a veteran pitcher cost money and our organization claims they don't have any. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more...)

Lip

Daver
03-02-2002, 10:45 PM
Good points,and welcome to WSI.

Jerry_Manuel
03-02-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by daver
Good points,and welcome to WSI.

I agree. Nice to see yet another of our WSI columnists posting on the boards.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-02-2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I agree. Nice to see yet another of our WSI columnists posting on the boards.

Isn't it cool that even Sox Fans in Idaho find their way here?

:smile:

Lisa
03-02-2002, 11:15 PM
I'm not as worried about the inexperience as I am about them coming off injuries. The pen is a good place for the younger pitchers with no experience to get their feet wet, and since there's less pressure they've done well there. As far as our Purple Heart staff, though - it takes a year to fully come back from surgery generally, and they'll be more prone to exhaustion, especially late in the season, and of course they could reinjure. On top of that, since we DO have such deep pitching in the minors, they'll be less likely to say anything if they start hurting, lest they be branded as injury-prone or simply unable to cut it.

I want to see how many pitchers go down in April again (I swear if anyone else has a torn labrum and Nardi isn't fired, I'm personally burning his house down), because there's always one or two, but I'm thinking by mid- to late-August the staff will be worn out.

Jerry_Manuel
03-02-2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Isn't it cool that even Sox Fans in Idaho find their way here?

:smile:

I think it is. If we can have posters like Soxheads from NE Iowa, I say why not Idaho? :smile:

Jerry_Manuel
03-02-2002, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Lisa
(I swear if anyone else has a torn labrum and Nardi isn't fired, I'm personally burning his house down)

Yep, you'll fit right in here. :D:

:firenardi

Daver
03-02-2002, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I think it is. If we can have posters like Soxheads from NE Iowa, I say why not Idaho? :smile:

You forgot about Australia.:redneck

Jerry_Manuel
03-02-2002, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by daver
You forgot about Australia.:redneck

That I did.

kermittheefrog
03-03-2002, 03:34 AM
Really I'm not worried about the pen at all. We have many capable arms and I think during Jerry Manuel's tenure he's put together some good pens and had the confidence to go with whoever pitches best. Manuel likes to go to his pen and not press the starters so he makes sure he can have confidence in it. Every year with him as manager someone not expected to contribute much at the beginning of camp gets a break. Foulke in 98, Lowe in 99, Wunsch in 2000 and Glover in 2001. Although last year's injuries eventually pushed Glover into the rotation. Between our depth of arms and Jerry's ability to pull out a good pen providing healthy arms (which he didn't have last year) I think we're set in the pen. Right now I'd say our biggest problems are not having a big lefthanded bat and Jon Garland's shaky control.

WinningUgly!
03-03-2002, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
The bullpen is the only thing that worries me about the Sox. They have good players in there but many are coming back from surgery (Osuna,Wunsh,Barcelo) and there is only one lefty in there. The only solution to that would be bring up Malone but I wouldn't like that. I think if everyone can pitch as good as their potential than we will be fine but I don't know if that will happen. What do you think? Is the bullpen good enough to bring the Sox to the AL central title or farther?

I really think that Howry is the key, as scary as that sounds. Foulke is a given. A few big factors in a bullpen's success are rhythm & players knowing & performing in their roles. If Howry's velocity is back to what it was pre-surgery (which I am assuming is or he'd have already been dealt away) he will be able to once again fill the set-up slot in the pen & make it much easier for the rest of the bullpen to fall into place.

RedPinStripes
03-03-2002, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I think we're set in the pen. Right now I'd say our biggest problems are not having a big lefthanded bat and Jon Garland's shaky control.

I wouldn't worry about Garland's control too much. He was pretty dominating at the end of the year and i think this is his year to step up. The pen has too many "If's" in there.

kermittheefrog
03-03-2002, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


I wouldn't worry about Garland's control too much. He was pretty dominating at the end of the year and i think this is his year to step up. The pen has too many "If's" in there.

I wouldn't be so quick to dimiss Garland's control problems. He averaged walking nearly a batter every other inning and threw about 4.3% fewer strikes than average. Now that doesn't sound like a big difference until you think about the fact that the AL league leader in walks, Hideo Nomo only throws 2% fewer strikes than average. Garland has some serious work to do refining his control.

LongDistanceFan
03-03-2002, 08:11 AM
i think garland will come into his own this yr, i am really worried about not having a true #1 pit but we have to deal with mark b there. if everybdy comes back from injury and barcelo regains some of his heat, and if gascan can pit like he is suppose to, then i am not worried............ that is a big "if".

cornball
03-03-2002, 11:21 AM
I think Garland will also be the key. Parque will start in the pen...or should......Howry will be gone

HawkDJ
03-04-2002, 01:56 PM
Osuna did good a couple days ago in Spring Training. I really think he is a good pitcher when healthy. Hopefully he can keep it up along with Barcelo and Howry who have had a good start to spring.

RichH55
03-05-2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I wouldn't be so quick to dimiss Garland's control problems. He averaged walking nearly a batter every other inning and threw about 4.3% fewer strikes than average. Now that doesn't sound like a big difference until you think about the fact that the AL league leader in walks, Hideo Nomo only throws 2% fewer strikes than average. Garland has some serious work to do refining his control.


I honestly don't like the idea of Parque/Garland as the number 3 options for the team this year.....2003...sure, but for 2002 I think that Starting Rotation needs another proven arm(Lidle would have be nice)

RichH55
03-05-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

When talking about the bullpen and how good it will be, it's important to consider two areas....

1.) Health: A lot of fans are just automatically assuming that all of the injured pitchers (both starters and relief guys) will be just as good as before. And they might, BUT will they ALL be 100% by April 1st. As an example look at Howry and how his velocity dropped off last season (the year after his shoulder surgery). Most doctors say a full year to 18 months before you are back to the way you were before an arm injury.

2.) Left Handers: Already on today's game John and Ed were talking about the left handers out of the pen. The Japanese pitcher (Sorry, I can't remember his last name) was so bad on Friday that Farmer said he's in danger of getting cut! That he'd have to perform much better in his next two or three outings. Wunsch could be a fluke and he's coming off surgery and Malone (?) is completely inexperienced. If I was our intrepid GM, I'd be on the phone with the A's. They have three experienced left handers and according to The Sporting News, will be looking to deal one to a "lefty poor" club. (That's the Sox for sure!) Of course, the club won't do that because picking up a veteran pitcher cost money and our organization claims they don't have any. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more...)

Lip


I don't want KW and Beane in on the same conference call if I can avoid it!