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Cuck_The_Fubs
10-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Considering the fact that Crede made like a 180 degree turnaround at his at bat, does anyone else besides me believe Crede is the next A-Rod? Crede plays near perfect defense, and his confidence seems there. For some reason, I believe that Joe is going to be an MVP someday.

Anyone else have this feeling?:dunno:


If you do post, either put yes, no, or maybe. Explain your reasoning.

lumpyspun
10-10-2006, 05:55 PM
Considering the fact that Crede made like a 180 degree turnaround at his at bat, does anyone else besides me believe Crede is the next A-Rod? Crede plays near perfect defense, and his confidence seems there. For some reason, I believe that Joe is going to be an MVP someday.

Anyone else have this feeling?:dunno:


If you do post, either put yes, no, or maybe. Explain your reasoning.

No. A-Rods only come along every so often...like 20 years or so. I don't think Crede will be as good as A-Rod number wise. But, I think he will be great and I love having him on the team, indefintely.

samram
10-10-2006, 06:00 PM
Alex Rodriguez was hitting 35 HRs and winning batting titles when he was 22. Joe is a very nice player, but let's not get carried away.

Cuck_The_Fubs
10-10-2006, 06:06 PM
Thats true,
Joe is 28 or so right?

BiggestFan14
10-10-2006, 06:21 PM
Joe will be a pretty good player, but never like Alex Rodriguez.

Domeshot17
10-10-2006, 06:29 PM
I love Joe Crede, but Crede isnt even Scott Rolen at age 28, let alone Arod. Arod SHOULD if he stays healthy become the all time home run leader, with pujols on his tail. When you ask who the best player in baseball is, there is a 3 man debate, it used to be AROD or PUJOLS, now you can add Ryan Howard to that mix. I also would say lets have Joe put up more then 1 good season before we declare him MVP.

thomas35forever
10-10-2006, 06:37 PM
A-Rod is a future HOFer, Crede is not. That's all I'll say.

Hitmen77
10-10-2006, 06:58 PM
A better comparison is Crede vs. Ventura. When Robin left, I thought it would be many years before we saw someone play 3rd base for the Sox who was as good and consistent as he was.

I think Joe has a good shot at matching or surpassing Robin if he stays healthy.

mjmcend
10-10-2006, 07:02 PM
A-Rod, when his career is all done, will be in the picture for greatest baseball player ever. Crede, not so much.

Dan the Man
10-10-2006, 07:04 PM
NO. A-Rod steals bases. He also is a prettyboy, unlike Joe, who more or less a cult hero.

batmanZoSo
10-10-2006, 07:10 PM
Come on...:rolleyes:

JB98
10-10-2006, 07:22 PM
LOL. Is this a serious question?

Cuck_The_Fubs
10-10-2006, 07:40 PM
Yea, this is a serious question.....:angry:


Whoever wants a guy who has 25+ errors on 3b be my guest, but im sticking to ma' main man Jo'

sox647
10-10-2006, 07:47 PM
**** arod.

crede is crede, and that's just how we like it.

Daver
10-10-2006, 08:00 PM
Yea, this is a serious question.....:angry:


Whoever wants a guy who has 25+ errors on 3b be my guest, but im sticking to ma' main man Jo'

That's what you get when you put the best SS in baseball at third.

JB98
10-10-2006, 08:04 PM
Yea, this is a serious question.....:angry:


Whoever wants a guy who has 25+ errors on 3b be my guest, but im sticking to ma' main man Jo'

A-Rod is just a better hitter. Crede is a better value for the money (at least for now), and I'd be delighted to keep him at 3B for the White Sox for many years to come. Joe is one of my favorite players, but is he on par with A-Rod? No chance in hell.

A-Rod is not a 3B. He is a SS. The Yankees are to blame for A-Rod's defensive woes. It's very similar to the Sox asking Ozuna to play LF or Mackowiak to play CF. Put a guy out of position, and he will struggle defensively.

Huisj
10-10-2006, 08:09 PM
Alex Rodriguez was hitting 35 HRs and winning batting titles when he was 22. Joe is a very nice player, but let's not get carried away.

Actually, he was 21! His 1996 season was unreal, let alone for a kid wasn't 21 until late July that year.

.358, 36 HR, 123 RBI, 54 2B, .414 OBP, .631 SLG!

Palehose13
10-10-2006, 08:14 PM
Yea, this is a serious question.....:angry:


Whoever wants a guy who has 25+ errors on 3b be my guest, but im sticking to ma' main man Jo'

**** arod.

crede is crede, and that's just how we like it.

Considering the fact that Crede made like a 180 degree turnaround at his at bat, does anyone else besides me believe Crede is the next A-Rod? Crede plays near perfect defense, and his confidence seems there. For some reason, I believe that Joe is going to be an MVP someday.

Anyone else have this feeling?:dunno:


If you do post, either put yes, no, or maybe. Explain your reasoning.

Um, no. Don't get too crazy with your keyboard. Crede is a fine player and a great defensive third baseman, but he's not even close to A-Rod. Before you go off about his errors, remember that he is playing out of position.

RedPinStripes
10-10-2006, 08:38 PM
I'll keep Crede at 3rd, but A-Rod can play SS for my team any day.

Britt Burns
10-10-2006, 08:55 PM
Damn I hate the offseason....

Hitmen77
10-10-2006, 10:20 PM
The one category where Crede outdoes ARod is in World Series rings:

Crede: 1
ARod: 0

:gulp:

Craig Grebeck
10-10-2006, 10:44 PM
The one category where Crede outdoes ARod is in World Series rings:

Crede: 1
ARod: 0

:gulp:
Timo outdoes him too, doesn't make him any better.

Crede had a season this year that he might not replicate, now is the time to move him if he won't have surgery.

23Ventura
10-10-2006, 10:45 PM
Crede is a very good player, but he will never be as good as Arod, not even close.

buehrle4cy05
10-10-2006, 11:03 PM
There is no comparison, because A-Rod is SS and Crede is a 3B.

If A-Rod gets traded this offseason, I suspect he'll play short, not third.

Chips
10-10-2006, 11:30 PM
Timo outdoes him too, doesn't make him any better.

:rolling: I love when people make the argument because so and so has a ring it makes them better. Is Trent Dilfer a better quaterback than Dan Marino?

fquaye149
10-10-2006, 11:38 PM
Yea, this is a serious question.....:angry:


Whoever wants a guy who has 25+ errors on 3b be my guest, but im sticking to ma' main man Jo'

So the truth comes out.

Whatever. Yeah Joe Crede's better than A-Rod.

And Ventura was better than Mike Schmidt was:?:


You take your boy Crede. Put him on a team with Rowand, Timo, and Carl Everett, as GM of the team of "your boys, never mind who's actually better."

Actually that's not fair to Joe who actually is a wonderful ballplayer. A hell of a player to tell the truth. It's not his fault lunatic fans are comparing him to one of the best hitters and ss's of the past 30 years.

fquaye149
10-10-2006, 11:40 PM
There is no comparison, because A-Rod is SS and Crede is a 3B.

If A-Rod gets traded this offseason, I suspect he'll play short, not third.

No offense, but suspect? There's only one team in baseball stupid enough and with a "captain" as egomaniacal enough to have the best SS in baseball play out of position. And that team is....the Devil Rays. No wait. I mean the LA Clippers.

fquaye149
10-10-2006, 11:41 PM
:rolling: I love when people make the argument because so and so has a ring it makes them better. Is Trent Dilfer a better quaterback than Dan Marino?

Absolutely. If Marino was such a good QB he wouldn't be selling weightloss products and having great hair.

Real QB's are bald. Ask Hasselback.

Palehose13
10-10-2006, 11:52 PM
Absolutely. If Marino was such a good QB he wouldn't be selling weightloss products and having great hair.

Real QB's are bald. Ask Hasselback.

Who is Hasselback?

lumpyspun
10-10-2006, 11:53 PM
Who is Hasselback?

The girl from The View

Palehose13
10-10-2006, 11:54 PM
The girl from The View
:?:

OEO Magglio
10-11-2006, 12:38 AM
ARod is one of the greatest players of all time at the age of 31. I think that's all that needs to be said.

BadBobbyJenks
10-11-2006, 12:56 AM
Yea, this is a serious question.....:angry:


Whoever wants a guy who has 25+ errors on 3b be my guest, but im sticking to ma' main man Jo'




HAHA.

Yes a man who many have said might go down as the best player ever until he changed positions and went to new york. Get Real

SouthSide_HitMen
10-11-2006, 01:28 AM
The girl from The View

POTW :cool: Cue the Survivor (http://images.richmond.com/images/hardcoded/3-30-01elisabeth_story.jpg) Music.

A Rod - 464 HRs, .305 BA, .386 OBP, .573 SLG.
Comparables (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01.shtml) - Ken Griffey Jr., Mickey Mantle

Crede - 104 HRs, .262 BA, .308 OBP, .455 SLG.
Comparables (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/credejo01.shtml) - Doug DeCinces, Fernando Tatis

Crede is my favorite White Sox player. That said he is no where close to A Rod on the field.

WTS?

Thome25
10-11-2006, 07:59 AM
POTW :cool: Cue the Survivor (http://images.richmond.com/images/hardcoded/3-30-01elisabeth_story.jpg) Music.

A Rod - 464 HRs, .305 BA, .386 OBP, .573 SLG.
Comparables (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01.shtml) - Ken Griffey Jr., Mickey Mantle

Crede - 104 HRs, .262 BA, .308 OBP, .455 SLG.
Comparables (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/credejo01.shtml) - Doug DeCinces, Fernando Tatis

Crede is my favorite White Sox player. That said he is no where close to A Rod on the field.

WTS?

Crede is better than AROD for two simple reasons:

A.) Crede is light years ahead of AROD defensively

B.) Crede is clutch and delivers the big hits when it counts. AROD wets his pants in the playoffs.

For those reasons Crede is more valuable a player that AROD. PERIOD.

SouthSide_HitMen
10-11-2006, 08:07 AM
Crede is better than AROD for two simple reasons:

A.) Crede is light years ahead of AROD defensively

B.) Crede is clutch and delivers the big hits when it counts. AROD wets his pants in the playoffs.

For those reasons Crede is more valuable a player that AROD. PERIOD.

:rolling:

Are you for real?

This thread is so What's The Score? it isn't even funny.

A Rod can sit in a hot tub installed at the hot corner (page Jerry - another $500 k idea :cool: ) and still be more valuable than Crede.

Crede - Good starting 3B.
A Rod - Hall of Fame.

Case closed.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 08:14 AM
:rolling:

Are you for real?

This thread is so What's The Score? it isn't even funny.

A Rod can sit in a hot tub installed at the hot corner (page Jerry - another $500 k idea :cool: ) and still be more valuable than Crede.

Crede - Good starting 3B.
A Rod - Hall of Fame.

Case closed.

YES I'm for real. Crede was a HUGE reason the Sox won it all in 2005. It was his stellar defense and offense along with the pitching that carried us.

How many World Series has AROD helped the Yankees/Rangers/Mariners win?

If anything, AROD has cost the Yankees a few playoff series by wetting his pants at the plate and in the field.

It's not all about putting up huge numbers. IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING BASEBALL GAMES AND THE WORLD SERIES.

Crede has proven himself to be more valuable a player than AROD. PERIOD.

Beautox
10-11-2006, 08:34 AM
YES I'm for real. Crede was a HUGE reason the Sox won it all in 2005. It was his stellar defense and offense along with the pitching that carried us.

How many World Series has AROD helped the Yankees/Rangers/Mariners win?

If anything, AROD has cost the Yankees a few playoff series by wetting his pants at the plate and in the field.

It's not all about putting up huge numbers. IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING BASEBALL GAMES AND THE WORLD SERIES.

Crede has proven himself to be more valuable a player than AROD. PERIOD.

Before these past two post seasons he had a very good series against the twins(in pinstripes), As SouthSide_HitMen said Arod is a HOFer and Joe isn't, its as simple as that. I love Crede as much as the next sox fan but don't kid yourself. Also Arod was a GGer as SS and i imagine if he went back to SS he would still be above avg.

OEO Magglio
10-11-2006, 08:37 AM
Starting pitching has cost the Yankees in the playoffs, not Alex. The guy is a .280 career hitter in the postseason and people make him out to be the worst playoff performer of all time. Joe is a very good player but he's not even in ARod's league. You move Alex back to short and he once again becomes the best overall player in baseball. The guy has 464 homers and 241 stolen bases at the ripe old age of 31 for crying out loud. ARod is the best baseball player of our generation and you're saying Joe Crede is more valuable? Please.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 08:40 AM
Before these past two post seasons he had a very good series against the twins(in pinstripes), As SouthSide_HitMen said Arod is a HOFer and Joe isn't, its as simple as that. I love Crede as much as the next sox fan but don't kid yourself. Also Arod was a GGer as SS and i imagine if he went back to SS he would still be above avg.

Do you think we would we would've won the WS in 2005 without Crede's clutch hits and game-saving defensive plays?

Now ask yourself this: If you replace Crede with AROD and the way he performs in the playoffs on the 2005 White Sox what do you think happens?

'NUFF SAID.

samram
10-11-2006, 08:44 AM
YES I'm for real. Crede was a HUGE reason the Sox won it all in 2005. It was his stellar defense and offense along with the pitching that carried us.

How many World Series has AROD helped the Yankees/Rangers/Mariners win?

If anything, AROD has cost the Yankees a few playoff series by wetting his pants at the plate and in the field.

It's not all about putting up huge numbers. IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING BASEBALL GAMES AND THE WORLD SERIES.

Crede has proven himself to be more valuable a player than AROD. PERIOD.

So, by your logic, Scotty Pods is a more valuable player than, say, Ichiro. After all, Pods homered in the World Series. What's Ichiro ever won (besides batting titles and MVP awards)?

Thome25
10-11-2006, 08:47 AM
So, by your logic, Scotty Pods is a more valuable player than, say, Ichiro. After all, Pods homered in the World Series. What's Ichiro ever won (besides batting titles and MVP awards)?

You're comparing Ichiro to Pods and I'm comparing and ALL-Star to an ALL-Star.

There's no comparison between Ichiro and Pods because Pods OBVIOUSLY had a terrible year.

Crede is no slouch though. He still puts up all-star caliber numbers comparable to Chavez in Oakland.

Pods and Ichiro IS NOT a worthy comparison. AROD and Crede IS.

If you replace Pods with Ichiro on the 2005 team I still think we cruise through the playoffs.

If you replace Crede with AROD, and all that Crede did last year, I think we have a tougher time.

samram
10-11-2006, 08:54 AM
You're comparing Ichiro to Pods and I'm comparing and ALL-Star to an ALL-Star.

There's no comparison between Ichiro and Pods because Pods OBVIOUSLY had a terrible year.

Crede is no slouch though. He still puts up all-star caliber numbers comparable to Chavez in Oakland.

Pods and Ichiro IS NOT a worthy comparison. AROD and Crede IS.

If you replace Pods with Ichiro on the 2005 team I still think we cruise through the playoffs.

If you replace Crede with AROD, and all that Crede did last year, I think we have a tougher time.

You're the one who said it's all about winning games and not about numbers. Yeah, right here:

It's not all about putting up huge numbers. IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING BASEBALL GAMES AND THE WORLD SERIES.

I think the Sox would have been just fine with ARod given the pitching they got.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:00 AM
I think the Sox would have been just fine with ARod given the pitching they got.

I think you're wrong. I'll give you a more in depth analysis:

What if you have Arod batting instead of Crede after AJ's dropped third strike?

Do you think he hits a game ending double? Or chokes and strikes out like he usually does in the playoffs?

How about Crede's game saving defensive plays in games one and two in the WS? Do you think AROD makes the same plays or does he make a game-costing error?

How about Crede's go ahead HR in the WS? Do you think AROD gets a clutch hit in that situation?

I'd have to say a BIG NO to all of thos situations. I'd take Crede over Arod in a heartbeat.

And not just because Crede is a more valuable, clutch player either. AROD is an overpaid egomaniac if you ask me as well.

Beautox
10-11-2006, 09:02 AM
Do you think we would we would've won the WS in 2005 without Crede's clutch hits and game-saving defensive plays?

Now ask yourself this: If you replace Crede with AROD and the way he performs in the playoffs on the 2005 White Sox what do you think happens?

'NUFF SAID.

First off that was 2005 and this is 2006, unless you've got a delorean or some kind of time traveling device that conversation is a moot point and your manor of thinking is very irrational.

Secondly Arod wouldn't be replacing Crede he would be replacing Juan, you would be dealing Broadway(#3 starter), Garcia(#2-3 starter), Cotts and Fields(3B) thats 16yrs of service time for Arod(4 years) & Melky(5 years). Then you deal Juan and Scott for prospects / BP help.

Thats gives the yankees a pretty good young core of pitching (Broadway, Wang, Hughes, Clippard and Matz)

itsnotrequired
10-11-2006, 09:02 AM
YES I'm for real. Crede was a HUGE reason the Sox won it all in 2005. It was his stellar defense and offense along with the pitching that carried us.

How many World Series has AROD helped the Yankees/Rangers/Mariners win?

If anything, AROD has cost the Yankees a few playoff series by wetting his pants at the plate and in the field.

It's not all about putting up huge numbers. IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING BASEBALL GAMES AND THE WORLD SERIES.

Crede has proven himself to be more valuable a player than AROD. PERIOD.

Good Lord, you're dragging this argument out again?

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72408

ARod is an all around better player than Crede. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:06 AM
First off that was 2005 and this is 2006, unless you've got a delorean or some kind of time traveling device that conversation is a moot point and your manor of thinking is very irrational.

Secondly Arod wouldn't be replacing Crede he would be replacing Juan, you would be dealing Broadway(#3 starter), Garcia(#2-3 starter), Cotts and Fields(3B) thats 16yrs of service time for Arod(4 years) & Melky(5 years). Then you deal Juan and Scott for prospects / BP help.

Thats gives the yankees a pretty good young core of pitching (Broadway, Wang, Hughes, Clippard and Matz)


Sorry but I think the Yankees would need a replacement at 3B and would ask for Crede.

He fits what the Yankees would want out of a player in the regular season and especially the playoffs.

And no I don't have a Delorean. If i did have one, I'd go back in time and tell myself what the lottery numbers are going to be in the future and I wouldn't be sitting here debating AROD over Crede.

Seriously though we I was switching AROD and Crede in 2005, I was dealing in a hypothetical situation. Haven't you ever done that before?

SouthSide_HitMen
10-11-2006, 09:08 AM
YES I'm for real. Crede was a HUGE reason the Sox won it all in 2005. It was his stellar defense and offense along with the pitching that carried us.

How many World Series has AROD helped the Yankees/Rangers/Mariners win?

If anything, AROD has cost the Yankees a few playoff series by wetting his pants at the plate and in the field.

It's not all about putting up huge numbers. IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING BASEBALL GAMES AND THE WORLD SERIES.

Crede has proven himself to be more valuable a player than AROD. PERIOD.

This is the argument you are making:

AJ Pierzynski > Carlton Fisk
Juan Uribe > Ernie Banks & Luke Appling, Luis Aparicio & Robin Yount
Tadahito Iguchi > Nellie Fox, Napoleon Lajoie, Rod Carew & Ryne Sandberg
Paul Konerko > Harmon Killebrew & Willie McCovey
Aaron Rowand > Ty Cobb (This one is for you ChiSoxMike :D: )
Scott Podsednik > Ted Williams, Billy Williams & Carl Yastrzemski
El Duque > Ted Lyons, Early Wynn, Robin Roberts, Juan Marichal, Fergie Jenkins, Gaylord Perry, Phil Niekro & Don Sutton

We are comparing player vs. player. A Hall of Fame player is superior to an average player regardless of whether they won a World Series or not.

This is my final post in this ludicrous thread.

samram
10-11-2006, 09:09 AM
I think you're wrong. I'll give you a more in depth analysis:

What if you have Arod batting instead of Crede after AJ's dropped third strike?

Do you think he hits a game ending double? Or chokes and strikes out like he usually does in the playoffs?

How about Crede's game saving defensive plays in games one and two in the WS? Do you think AROD makes the same plays or does he make a game-costing error?

How about Crede's go ahead HR in the WS? Do you think AROD gets a clutch hit in that situation?

I'd have to say a BIG NO to all of thos situations. I'd take Crede over Arod in a heartbeat.

And not just because Crede is a more valuable, clutch player either. AROD is an overpaid egomaniac if you ask me as well.

OK, whatever. You say ARod wouldn't do what Crede did. There's no way to argue against that and there's no way for you to prove that.

As for the "overpaid egomaniac" thing, remember Arod's the one who changed positions, despite being the best player and best SS at the time, so that Jeter could continue to play his mediocre defense at SS.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:10 AM
Good Lord, you're dragging this argument out again? ARod is an all around better player than Crede. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

AROD sucks in the playoffs. Crede doesn't. Arod puts up bigger numbers than Crede. Does that make him more valuable?

I'd have to say NO. Yeah AROD and his HUGE numbers would get us to the playoffs but what would he do once we got there?

It's the same situation as Frank Thomas. He put up HUGE numbers won a couple of MVP awards and got us to the playoffs a few times.

What did he do once he got there?

Crede has proven to be more VALUABLE than AROD. I'm not saying his numbers are better than ARODS by any stretch of the imagination.

itsnotrequired
10-11-2006, 09:10 AM
This is my final post in this ludicrous thread.

You should really stick around. The humor factor is sure to go up tremendously.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:12 AM
This is the argument you are making:

AJ Pierzynski > Carlton Fisk
Juan Uribe > Ernie Banks & Luke Appling, Luis Aparicio & Robin Yount
Tadahito Iguchi > Nellie Fox, Napoleon Lajoie, Rod Carew & Ryne Sandberg
Paul Konerko > Harmon Killebrew & Willie McCovey
Aaron Rowand > Ty Cobb (This one is for you ChiSoxMike :D: )
Scott Podsednik > Ted Williams, Billy Williams & Carl Yastrzemski
El Duque > Ted Lyons, Early Wynn, Robin Roberts, Juan Marichal, Fergie Jenkins, Gaylord Perry, Phil Niekro & Don Sutton

We are comparing player vs. player. A Hall of Fame player is superior to an average player regardless of whether they won a World Series or not.

This is my final post in this ludicrous thread.

Now you're the one taking it a little too far.

I'm comparing TWO ALL-STARS TOGETHER.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:15 AM
You can't live and die with numbers alone. The 2003 Marlins didn't have a bunch of monster players with huge numbers and they were the David that beat goliath.

There is more to a player being valuable to a team than just his numbers alone.

itsnotrequired
10-11-2006, 09:15 AM
AROD sucks in the playoffs. Crede doesn't. Arod puts up bigger numbers than Crede. Does that make him more valuable?

I'd have to say NO. Yeah AROD and his HUGE numbers would get us to the playoffs but what would he do once we got there?

It's the same situation as Frank Thomas. He put up HUGE numbers won a couple of MVP awards and got us to the playoffs a few times.

What did he do once he got there?

Crede has proven to be more VALUABLE than AROD. I'm not saying his numbers are better than ARODS by any stretch of the imagination.

What is this "proof" you speak of? Crede did well in the playoffs while ARod didn't? That is enough proof for you to decide Crede is more valuable?

Yep, Thomas didn't do well in his playoff appearances. Throw him in the dung heap with everyone else who doesn't have a ring:

- Ryne Sandberg
- Carlton Fisk
- Robin Yount
- Nellie Fox

I could go on...

:rolleyes:

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:16 AM
I'm done with this converation. We'll all just have to agree to disagree.

Beautox
10-11-2006, 09:16 AM
Sorry but I think the Yankees would need a replacement at 3B and would ask for Crede.

He fits what the Yankees would want out of a player in the regular season and especially the playoffs.

And no I don't have a Delorean. If i did have one, I'd go back in time and tell myself what the lottery numbers are going to be in the future and I wouldn't be sitting here debating AROD over Crede.

Seriously though we I was switching AROD and Crede in 2005, I was dealing in a hypothetical situation. Haven't you ever done that before?

Last time i checked Josh Fields plays 3B and if there was ever a line up that offered protection and you could break someone in as a #9 hitter its the yankees line up. Fields plays average defense and is only going to get better he's very athletic. He still strikes out a little too much for my liking but you put him in that line up and working with former batting champ Don Mattingly and I'm pretty sure the holes in his swing get cut down and his swing gets a little less robotic.

The Yankees want to get younger both on the field and in their rotation Fields and Broadway allow them to do that.

That situation in '05 isn't even remotely hypothetical Arod hadn't failed in the post season yet in NY and the media/fans weren't booing the guy he was also about to win the AL MVP for the second time and like i said he destroyed the twins to a BA of .421 in the ALDS and he hit .258 in the ALCS in '04.

OEO Magglio
10-11-2006, 09:17 AM
Do you think he hits a game ending double? Or chokes and strikes out like he usually does in the playoffs?


So Joe's .289 ba in the postseason compared to ARod's .280 makes Joe the most clutch player in the world while Alex is a complete choker?

Hitmen77
10-11-2006, 09:20 AM
The one category where Crede outdoes ARod is in World Series rings:

Crede: 1
ARod: 0

:gulp:

Timo outdoes him too, doesn't make him any better.

Crede had a season this year that he might not replicate, now is the time to move him if he won't have surgery.

when did I say that it made him a better player than ARod?:?: Oh wait, I didn't. I guess that's why I said in an earlier post that a more appropriate comparision is Crede vs. Ventura.

I just wanted to make a positive comment about Joe getting a Ring. But, I forgot that this is the offseason at WSI and we're all about crazy trade rumors and bickering with each other until spring training begins.

OEO Magglio
10-11-2006, 09:22 AM
AROD sucks in the playoffs.
Since when does a .280 batting average and .860 ops suck?

Beautox
10-11-2006, 09:28 AM
You can't live and die with numbers alone. The 2003 Marlins didn't have a bunch of monster players with huge numbers and they were the David that beat goliath.

There is more to a player being valuable to a team than just his numbers alone.

the '03 marlins had good to great pitching staff.

Brad Penny - 4.13ERA 14W 10L
Dontrelle Willis - 3.31ERA 14W 6L
Mark Redman - 3.59ERA 14W 9L
Josh Beckett - 3.04ERA 9W 8L
Carl Pavano - 4.30ERA 12W 13L

Once again good/great pitching will beat good/great hitting 7 out of 10 times.

If the yankees could actually pitch arod would'nt be at fault.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:30 AM
the '03 marlins had good to great pitching staff.

Brad Penny - 4.13ERA 14W 10L
Dontrelle Willis - 3.31ERA 14W 6L
Mark Redman - 3.59ERA 14W 9L
Josh Beckett - 3.04ERA 9W 8L
Carl Pavano - 4.30ERA 12W 13L

Once again good/great pitching will beat good/great hitting 7 out of 10 times.

If the yankees could actually pitch arod would'nt be at fault.

Pitching AND Defense wins championships. But if you don't have clutch hitting or some good consistent offense you're going to lose an awful lot of games 1-0.

Pitching defense and clutch hitting is even more important in the playoffs.

spiffie
10-11-2006, 09:32 AM
AROD sucks in the playoffs. Crede doesn't. Arod puts up bigger numbers than Crede. Does that make him more valuable?

Joe Crede playoffs: 289/319/622 in 12 games
Alex Rodriguez playoffs: 280/362/485 in 35 games.

So basically except for Joe's HR in a losing effort in game 1 of the ALCS, they have identical numbers. Only Rodriguez has done his over a 3 times larger span of games. But hey don't let the facts get in the way of this argument.

OEO Magglio
10-11-2006, 09:33 AM
Joe Crede playoffs: 289/319/622 in 12 games
Alex Rodriguez playoffs: 280/362/485 in 35 games.

So basically except for Joe's HR in a losing effort in game 1 of the ALCS, they have identical numbers. Only Rodriguez has done his over a 3 times larger span of games. But hey don't let the facts get in the way of this argument.
I think Thome25 has been watching too much espn.

spiffie
10-11-2006, 09:34 AM
Now you're the one taking it a little too far.

I'm comparing TWO ALL-STARS TOGETHER.
Ummm...did I miss the year Joe Crede made the All-Star team?

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:35 AM
Joe Crede playoffs: 289/319/622 in 12 games
Alex Rodriguez playoffs: 280/362/485 in 35 games.

So basically except for Joe's HR in a losing effort in game 1 of the ALCS, they have identical numbers. Only Rodriguez has done his over a 3 times larger span of games. But hey don't let the facts get in the way of this argument.


You guys are totally missing the point. Yeah they both had their fair share of hits in the playoffs.

But when did those hits come? What point in a series or a game did they come?

Were the hits game saving ones? Or did they come in the 8th inning of a 9-1 blowout with your team winning?

That's why I'm saying stats don't paint the entire picture.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:38 AM
Ummm...did I miss the year Joe Crede made the All-Star team?

Crede is an all-star. He puts up all-star caliber numbers. The reason he hasn't made it is because it's one big popularity contest and you know it.

I think his defensive and offense numbers were very comparable to Eric Chavez in Oakland. Is Chavez an all-star?

Don't get technical.

Myrtle72
10-11-2006, 09:45 AM
Crede is an all-star. He puts up all-star caliber numbers. The reason he hasn't made it is because it's one big popularity contest and you know it.

I always thought that Crede was one of the more popular players on the Sox. More so than AJ, at least.

spiffie
10-11-2006, 09:48 AM
Crede is an all-star. He puts up all-star caliber numbers. The reason he hasn't made it is because it's one big popularity contest and you know it.

I think his defensive and offense numbers were very comparable to Eric Chavez in Oakland. Is Chavez an all-star?

Don't get technical.
Don't get techical? There are exactly two choices:
All-Star
not All-Star.

His own manager did not select him to the All-Star team. He put up exactly one year of possibly All-star caliber numbers. Before that he was a .250 hitter who didn't walk much and had okay power.

MisterB
10-11-2006, 09:48 AM
Crede is an all-star. He puts up all-star caliber numbers. The reason he hasn't made it is because it's one big popularity contest and you know it.

I think his defensive and offense numbers were very comparable to Eric Chavez in Oakland. Is Chavez an all-star?

Don't get technical.

Chavez has never been to the All-Star game.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:50 AM
Don't get techical? There are exactly two choices:
All-Star
not All-Star.

His own manager did not select him to the All-Star team. He put up exactly one year of possibly All-star caliber numbers. Before that he was a .250 hitter who didn't walk much and had okay power.

Did is own manager not select him because he needed to rest an aching back?

You know the All-star process is as political as it comes. He didn't get in because he doesn't have the same name recognition as some of the other guys.

I should've put "caliber" behind the words All-star so you wouldn't get so technical and you're head wouldn't explode.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:51 AM
Chavez has never been to the All-Star game.

That's my point. Both are deserving and both don't go.

soxinem1
10-11-2006, 09:52 AM
A better comparison is Crede vs. Ventura. When Robin left, I thought it would be many years before we saw someone play 3rd base for the Sox who was as good and consistent as he was.

I think Joe has a good shot at matching or surpassing Robin if he stays healthy.

Well said, Crede has taken awhile to develop. Even though I'd still rather have Joe, consider this:

Alex 2006 season:

.290 BA 113 R 35 HR 121 RBI 15 SB 90 BB .392 OBP .523 SLG

Many say this is an off year for him, while Crede did this:

.283 BA 76 R 30 HR 94 RBI 0 SB 28 BB .323 OBP .506 SLG

which was his career year at age 28.

But the most important thing to the fans is:

World Series rings:

Joe 1
Alex 0

Joe fits us better than Alex, HOF'er or not.

spiffie
10-11-2006, 10:17 AM
That's my point. Both are deserving and both don't go.
2006 AL all-stars:
Alex Rodriguez: 290/392/523 35 HR
Troy Glaus: 252/355/513 38 HR

Not on team:
Joe Crede: 283/323/506 30 HR
Eric Chavez: 241/351/435 22 HR
Mike Lowell: 284/339/475 20 HR

Looks to me like neither Crede or Chavez are in the top 2 3B this year. #'s three and four, but not first or second.

Domeshot17
10-11-2006, 10:20 AM
First off, Thome25, I get where you are coming from, you defend your guy, but you can't seriously say Crede is better then Arod. and here is why

(1) Crede plays in chicago, Arod New York. Who is to say Arod out of the bronx wouldnt shine with the right team, and Crede (who up until the world series admittingly was sensative to fans booing him and the media ripping him) wouldnt crumble under the pressure of NY. PLENTY of guys have just not the ability to get it done in new york.

(2) The White Sox are not stupid enough to play the best SS in baseball at third. Baseball is a mental game, and when you go from being flawless at short to being stone handed at 3rd, it messes with your mind. I wonder if Crede would produce big if we moved him to SS or 2b

(3) Crede was backed by a complete team effort. On the games he DIDNT hit, his pitchers were throwing gems.

(4) Crede will be lucky to hit 300 home runs in his career. He has constant back problems, and has only had 1 year of hitting above 260. I refuse to crown anyone a changed player after they do it for 2 or more years.
OTOH, Arod (barring a major injury) will be the youngest player to ever hit 500 home runs, and could really have a great shot at 800 home runs. Think about how big that is with all of the other guys like Bonds inflating numbers using roids and hgh.

And if you had Arod in 2004 instead of crede, who is to say he doesnt carry that team out of the huge fall out we had and win a series that year. I know he couldnt pitch every 5th day, but he would have put up twice the numbers crede did.

Just look up the facts, Arod before these 2 years in new york, was a great playoff hitter. He has put up the same numbers as joe over many more post season at bats, You are comparing the 3rd or 4th best player on our team over a 2 year spand to one of the top 3 or 4 best players of the modern baseball era if not ever

Palehose13
10-11-2006, 10:32 AM
Starting pitching has cost the Yankees in the playoffs, not Alex. The guy is a .280 career hitter in the postseason and people make him out to be the worst playoff performer of all time. Joe is a very good player but he's not even in ARod's league. You move Alex back to short and he once again becomes the best overall player in baseball. The guy has 464 homers and 241 stolen bases at the ripe old age of 31 for crying out loud. ARod is the best baseball player of our generation and you're saying Joe Crede is more valuable? Please.
Some people only believe what they hear on ESPN.

AROD sucks in the playoffs. Crede doesn't. Arod puts up bigger numbers than Crede. Does that make him more valuable?

I'd have to say NO. Yeah AROD and his HUGE numbers would get us to the playoffs but what would he do once we got there?

It's the same situation as Frank Thomas. He put up HUGE numbers won a couple of MVP awards and got us to the playoffs a few times.

What did he do once he got there?

Crede has proven to be more VALUABLE than AROD. I'm not saying his numbers are better than ARODS by any stretch of the imagination.

Crede had one ****ing year in the playoffs. ARod has had a little more experience in the playoffs and still has good numbers. With your logic you are saying that Geoff Blum is more clutch in the playoffs than ARod and you'd rather have him on your team. :rolleyes:

Now you're the one taking it a little too far.

I'm comparing TWO ALL-STARS TOGETHER.
Which two all-stars? Ichiro and Pods? Cause I've never seen Crede in an all star game.

Crede is an all-star. He puts up all-star caliber numbers. The reason he hasn't made it is because it's one big popularity contest and you know it.

I think his defensive and offense numbers were very comparable to Eric Chavez in Oakland. Is Chavez an all-star?

Don't get technical.

"Bend me, shape me, anyway you want.."

Don't get technical? Are you serious? You are the one who got "technical" first and wanted to talk All-Star vs. All-Star. Then you say that you can't compare Pods to Ichiro cause they're not All-Stars...:?: (They were in 2005), but because you consider Joe Crede an All Star. I guess it's ok to make up the rules as you go along.

This thread (although it didn't have much hope to begin with) is turning into a steaming pile of crap and will be moved and closed pretty damn soon.

itsnotrequired
10-11-2006, 10:44 AM
This thread (although it didn't have much hope to begin with) is turning into a steaming pile of crap and will be moved and closed pretty damn soon.

Hold up, let me take a look at Crede's hits in the 2005 playoffs. Then we'll see how clutch he was...

ajismyhero
10-11-2006, 11:06 AM
Are you people serious? Crede better than ARod? I mean, I'm as biased as the next Sox fan, but really guys. Also, if we're measuring value on clutchness alone, maybe someone should remind Thome25 of all of the 1 out double plays that Mr. Clutch Crede hit into in the month of September when we were only a few games out of the WC. Hypothetically, had ARod been up to bat then, we might still be watching the White Sox live right now instead of bickering about this.....

itsnotrequired
10-11-2006, 11:25 AM
ALDS

Game 1
- fouls out to catcher, ends inning, no one on, Sox up 5-0
- flies out, first out of inning, runner on second, Sox up 6-2
- pops out, first out of inning, runners on first and second, Sox up 8-2
- walks, Sox up 13-2, ends up scoring

Game 2
- struck out looking, second out of inning, no one on, Sox down 4-0
- RBI single, one out, runner scores from third, Sox down 4-2, ends up scoring
- flies out, second out of inning, no one on, Sox up 5-4

Game 3
- grounds out, second out of inning, no one on, 0-0 score
- fouls out, second out of inning, runner on second, runner advances, Sox up 4-2
- sacrifice, first out of inning, advances runner to third, Sox up 4-3

ALCS

Game 1
- home run, one out, no one on, puts Sox on board, down 3-1
- flies out, last out of inning, no one on, Sox down 3-2
- strikes out, last out of game, runner on second, Sox lose 3-2

Game 2
- flies out, last out of inning, no one on, Sox up 1-0
- flies out, first out of inning, runner on first, score tied 1-1
- double, one out, no one on, ends up stranded, score tied 1-1
- doubles, two outs, runner scores from second, wins game

Game 3
- grounds out, second out of inning, no one on, Sox up 3-0
- flies out, second out of inning, no one on, Sox up 4-0
- fouls out, last out of inning, no one on, Sox up 5-0
- flies out, first out of inning, runner on first, Sox up 5-2

Game 4
- pops out, second out of inning, no one on, Sox up 3-0
- strikes out, second out of inning, no one on, Sox up 5-1
- singles, one out, no one on, ends up getting caught stealing to end inning, Sox up 6-2
- singles, drives in two runs, one out, ends up stranded, Sox move up 8-2

Game 5
- sac fly, runner scores from third, records second out, Sox on the board 1-0
- grounds out, first out of inning, no one on, tied 1-1
- home run, no outs, no one on, ties game in 7th, 3-3
- singles, drives in one run, two out, ends up stranded, Sox take lead 4-3 in 8th

WS

Game 1
- grounds out, second out of inning, advances runner to second, Sox up 2-1
- home run, one out, no one on, Sox take lead 4-3 in 4th
- pops out, first out of inning, no one on, Sox up 4-3
- flies out, first out of inning, runner on first, Sox up 4-3

Game 2
- singles, runner scores from second, one out, two on, ties game 1-1
- grounds out, last out of inning, no one on, tied 2-2
- fouls out, first out of inninng, no one on, Sox down 4-2
- grounds out, last out of inning, no one on, Sox up 6-4

Game 3
- walks, two out, one on, Sox down 1-0
- home run, no one on, no outs, puts Sox on board, down 4-1
- hit by pitch, two out, two on, ends up stranded, Sox up 5-4
- grounds out, last out of inning, runner on first, Sox up 5-4
- grounds out, first out of inning, no one on, tied 5-5
- grounds out, second out of inning, no one on, tied 5-5
- singles, two out, runner moves to second, Sox up 6-5, ends up stranded

Game 4
- flies out, last out of inning, no one on, tied 0-0
- strikes out, first out of inning, no one on, tied 0-0
- doubles, two outs, advances runner to third, neither score, tied 0-0
- strikes out, one out, runner on second, Sox up 1-0

wassagstdu
10-11-2006, 11:44 AM
YES I'm for real. Crede was a HUGE reason the Sox won it all in 2005. It was his stellar defense and offense along with the pitching that carried us.

How many World Series has AROD helped the Yankees/Rangers/Mariners win?

If anything, AROD has cost the Yankees a few playoff series by wetting his pants at the plate and in the field.

It's not all about putting up huge numbers. IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING BASEBALL GAMES AND THE WORLD SERIES.

Crede has proven himself to be more valuable a player than AROD. PERIOD.
Yikes! I was once a severe Crede-skeptic, but now I find myself agreeing with this. How does that go? The only statistic that matters: W.

fquaye149
10-11-2006, 12:48 PM
AROD sucks in the playoffs. Crede doesn't. I'd have to say NO. Yeah AROD and his HUGE numbers would get us to the playoffs but what would he do once we got there?

It's the same situation as Frank Thomas. He put up HUGE numbers won a couple of MVP awards and got us to the playoffs a few times.

What did he do once he got there?

Crede has proven to be more VALUABLE than AROD. I'm not saying his numbers are better than ARODS by any stretch of the imagination.

God this is maddening. Get your mother****ing facts straight before you parrot ESPN and NY media.

A-Rod has a better than .300 postseason average (it may have dipped slightly below .300 after this postseason).

And your Frank clutch bashing is asinine too. Look at #'s please. Don't look at that like one like game you like like watched like when you were like 8.

But yeah, keep spouting your anecdotal evidence and hypotheticals as if you have any idea what you're talking about:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

fquaye149
10-11-2006, 12:51 PM
2006 AL all-stars:
Alex Rodriguez: 290/392/523 35 HR
Troy Glaus: 252/355/513 38 HR

Not on team:
Joe Crede: 283/323/506 30 HR
Eric Chavez: 241/351/435 22 HR
Mike Lowell: 284/339/475 20 HR

Looks to me like neither Crede or Chavez are in the top 2 3B this year. #'s three and four, but not first or second.

But like Crede has had a few clutch hits.

And I heard Lowell once massaged Josh Beckett's back and the next day Beckett threw a one hitter!

CLR01
10-11-2006, 01:04 PM
If by "The Next A-Rod" you mean the next Boras client to negotiate a contract with the White Sox then yes he is. If by "The Next A-Rod" you mean the next A-Rod then you may want to visit a doctor.

itsnotrequired
10-11-2006, 01:11 PM
And I heard Lowell once massaged Josh Beckett's back and the next day Beckett threw a one hitter!

:roflmao:

Dibbs
10-11-2006, 01:36 PM
Who wouldn't think Crede is the next AROD?

All Joe has to do is average .370, hit 120 HR, 334 RBI and score 354 runs each year for the next 3 seasons. Those numbers will put him right where AROD is at 31 years old.

CLR01
10-11-2006, 02:00 PM
Damn I hate the offseason....


This one has the potential to be the worst offseason in WSI history. :puking:

fquaye149
10-11-2006, 02:45 PM
Who wouldn't think Crede is the next AROD?

All Joe has to do is average .370, hit 120 HR, 334 RBI and score 354 runs each year for the next 3 seasons. Those numbers will put him right where AROD is at 31 years old.

Also, he has to be by far the best player on a mediocre team, then go to a good team and be the best player on a good team, have a few bad playoff series and everyone can talk about how some young player who had a pretty good 2014 with some clutch hits is the next Joe Crede, only better because he doesn't choke like Crede did in 2013.:rolleyes:


Jesus, I love Crede. I mean flat out love him. I think he's the best defensive 3B in baseball (or at least in the AL) right now. But what the ****.

Yeah.

Garland's a better pitcher than Jason Schmidt. Buehrle's better than Santana. Jenks is better than Rivera.

Seriously. I believe this because, I mean because Rivera could conceivably have blown saves in 2005 and Jenks didn't so Jenks is better and look at how mediocre Santana's start was in the ALDS in 2006. Clearly if he were pitching game 2 of the ALCS, AJ would have just gone back to the dugout on the third strike. Also, what if KW went back in time and slapped a mosquito? We might have not thrown the 1919 World Series!

NoNeckEra
10-11-2006, 03:05 PM
If by "The Next A-Rod" you mean the next A-Rod then you may want to visit a doctor.
And on top of it, A-Rod is a lifetime shortstop, and only moved over due to Jeter. So why are we even making this comparison?

soxfanatlanta
10-11-2006, 03:20 PM
This one has the potential to be the worst offseason in WSI history. :puking:

I disagree; I get a kick out of these threads. :tongue: Crede better than ARod, huh? Riiiiiiiight




:threadrules:

spiffie
10-11-2006, 03:25 PM
Garland's a better pitcher than Jason Schmidt.
At this point in time that may not be that far off. When you look at the last two years, and factor in the difference between leagues, and account for the age, one could much more credibly make the case that they would rather have Garland than Schmidt. It's certainly a much easier sell than the idea of Joe Crede as better than Alex Rodriguez.

The Wall
10-11-2006, 03:33 PM
At this point in time that may not be that far off. When you look at the last two years, and factor in the difference between leagues, and account for the age, one could much more credibly make the case that they would rather have Garland than Schmidt. It's certainly a much easier sell than the idea of Joe Crede as better than Alex Rodriguez.

psst....done give them anymore ideas...I think one insane thread is one too many in any given offseason.

EndemicSox
10-11-2006, 08:21 PM
The next A-Rod? :D:

More like the current Kelly Gruber.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/grubeke01.shtml

soxwon
10-11-2006, 09:26 PM
crede for AROD, thats more like it

shoelessshaun27!
10-11-2006, 09:28 PM
No, but he is really good and is maybe going to be better, But hes not going to hit 40-50 homers a season.

PennStater98r
10-12-2006, 04:05 PM
I have to say - the fact that this thread was created - is silly - however, the fact that this thread has continue to go on is insane.

:smile:

I just think it's funny that Sox fans are trying to make comparisons of a guy who they wanted his head on a pike two years ago - with the best baseball player on the planet.

Here's the thing about A-Rod - guys like him only come around every 20-25 years (and ironically Seattle ended up with two of those guys in a 3 year period if you count Griffey - which I do). A-Rod is already in the Hall. If he left the game today, he's in the Hall - at 32. If Creded played four more years and put up A-Rod numbers every one of those years while playing Crede defense, he'd still not have the numbers to make the Hall. Creded would have to play until he is 40 and have A-Rod numbers for 7-8 of those years to even be considered for the Hall.

That's the difference between A-Rod and Crede.

Madscout
10-12-2006, 11:25 PM
I'll take Crede in October any day...

A-Rod...er...not so much.

Hitmen77
10-13-2006, 08:47 AM
I have to say - the fact that this thread was created - is silly - however, the fact that this thread has continue to go on is insane.

:smile:

I just think it's funny that Sox fans are trying to make comparisons of a guy who they wanted his head on a pike two years ago - with the best baseball player on the planet.



Seems to me that it's pretty much just the originator of the thread is trying to make a comparison. The rest of the post are people telling him he's crazy.

fquaye149
10-13-2006, 09:12 AM
Seems to me that it's pretty much just the originator of the thread is trying to make a comparison. The rest of the post are people telling him he's crazy.

Yep. That's generally what happens on this site when you post something crazy.

AJ Pierzynski--the next Carlton Fisk?

Ross Gload--the next Frank Thomas?