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View Full Version : Should Thornton Be Starting?


Gregory Pratt
10-08-2006, 12:22 PM
Personally, I always looked at him and saw a guy who reminded me of Randy Johnson. Just work with Matt on his slider, and toss him in the rotation. 100 MPH from the lefthand side isn't something to scoff at, and his mechanics are so smooth, too!

Patrick134
10-08-2006, 12:40 PM
No.

buehrle4cy05
10-08-2006, 12:48 PM
No. IMO, the reason Thornton's throwing in the upper 90's is because he's airing it out for one or two innings out of the bullpen. If he had to start, his velocity would probably drop to the low or mid 90's so he could conserve his arm for 6 or 7 innings.

I think I remember a game he started against the Sox in 2004, and if my memory serves me right, he was throwing in the low 90's.

SABRSox
10-08-2006, 12:54 PM
Personally, I always looked at him and saw a guy who reminded me of Randy Johnson. Just work with Matt on his slider, and toss him in the rotation. 100 MPH from the lefthand side isn't something to scoff at, and his mechanics are so smooth, too!

Uh, we need more quality arms in the bullpen, not less.

23Ventura
10-08-2006, 01:40 PM
I don't think so. We need him in the bullpen.

Lip Man 1
10-08-2006, 02:02 PM
He's had a pretty up and down career so far and may finally have found his niche. I wouldn't mess around with him.

Right now he's trying to get consistent and start putting some quality seasons together. He doesn't need the added pressure now of trying to 'learn' how to start.

Lip

Jurr
10-08-2006, 02:11 PM
He wasn't that great as a starter in the Mariners organization. Apparently, he wasn't solid enough with a third and a fourth pitch to be effective over 5 or 6 innings.

But.............Coop can fix him!

Harry Potter
10-08-2006, 02:25 PM
:threadblows:

batmanZoSo
10-08-2006, 02:37 PM
God, even Thornton thinks this thread sucks.

Gregory Pratt
10-08-2006, 02:58 PM
He wasn't that great as a starter in the Mariners organization. Apparently, he wasn't solid enough with a third and a fourth pitch to be effective over 5 or 6 innings.

But.............Coop can fix him!

Uh, his problem with Seattle was that he couldn't find the strikezone, which, umm, Cooper did fix.

God, even Thornton thinks this thread sucks.

Thornton's on record as saying he'd like to start again someday.

I don't think so. We need him in the bullpen.

I think that's the only reason not to test him in the rotation.

The Critic
10-08-2006, 03:47 PM
Uh, his problem with Seattle was that he couldn't find the strikezone, which, umm, Cooper did fix.



Thornton's on record as saying he'd like to start again someday.



I think that's the only reason not to test him in the rotation.

Three helpings of truth on a Sunday - thank you, Gregory! :smile:

chisoxmike
10-08-2006, 03:51 PM
No.

Frater Perdurabo
10-08-2006, 03:58 PM
He's the only reliable lefty in the bullpen. Why mess with success?

thomas35forever
10-08-2006, 03:59 PM
No. We don't want to burn his arm out. It's like the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

soxtalker
10-08-2006, 04:30 PM
Right now, he's only going for an inning or so. He's been effective, and that's a spot that the Sox need him. But if he really does want to try starting, how do the Sox allow him to move in that direction? Can they, for example, let him go for longer relief stints?

TDog
10-08-2006, 04:50 PM
He's had a pretty up and down career so far and may finally have found his niche. I wouldn't mess around with him.

Right now he's trying to get consistent and start putting some quality seasons together. He doesn't need the added pressure now of trying to 'learn' how to start.

Lip

I think you're right about Thornton. There are more than a few mediocre starting pitchers out there who would make pretty good relievers. There is no reason to convert someone who looks to be a pretty good reliever into a mediocre starting pitcher.

SOXintheBURGH
10-08-2006, 05:11 PM
The reason pitchers are in the bullpen is because they aren't effective starters.

Nein!

MarySwiss
10-08-2006, 05:11 PM
No. One of the few comforting sights we had during the last couple of weeks of the season was that of Thornton coming out of the bullpen.

BiggestFan14
10-08-2006, 05:16 PM
The only thing he should ever be starting is the eigth inning. :P

slobes
10-08-2006, 05:22 PM
He was one of the few guys out of the bullpen that you could count on down the stretch. Leave him there.

jenn2080
10-08-2006, 05:22 PM
Not at all. Thorton needs to be in the bullpen. He has been a great addition to our unstable bullpen. Thorton, MacDugal, and Jenks were the three most realiable bullpen pitchers this year and will be built around for 2007. Thorton plays his roll well.

The Dude
10-08-2006, 05:35 PM
Personally, I always looked at him and saw a guy who reminded me of Randy Johnson. Just work with Matt on his slider, and toss him in the rotation. 100 MPH from the lefthand side isn't something to scoff at, and his mechanics are so smooth, too!

No.
Next question.

Chips
10-08-2006, 05:38 PM
No.
Next question.

Should Neal Cotts be starting? :redneck

soxchick20
10-08-2006, 06:34 PM
No, keep him in the pen.

Cuck_The_Fubs
10-08-2006, 06:45 PM
The Angels tried to make Big bad Bobba' a starter, and he sucked....badly. Thats why they got rid of him. If thornton was to start, his velocity would be down, and he would get shelled. There is a reason for relievers:?: .

JB98
10-09-2006, 12:20 AM
Thornton doesn't have anything offspeed that would allow him to be effective as a starter. He's a two-pitch pitcher: Fastball and slider. By the third time through a batting order, the opposition's hitters will be on his fastball. His power repetoire is ideal for late-inning relief work. I think Matt is right where he belongs, and I think his best days are still ahead of him.

ondafarm
10-09-2006, 01:41 AM
Thornton's value as a starter would far outweigh his value as a relief pitcher. If Cooper could convert him into another lefty starter that would be great for the Sox. Another lefty for the pen could be found/ traded for.

I think he could learn a change-up, that's one of the easiest pitches to learn.

Beautox
10-09-2006, 03:57 AM
A couple of things i believe when Matt faced the sox as a starter it was before he had TJ.

Matt did feature a very late breaking pitch, it wasn't his slider, im not sure what it was but he featured it against LAA near the end of the year. LHP that throw 98+ are very hard to find, if he can develop a change up to go along with his so so slider, then yes i would at least audition him for the rotation in ST and if that went well I'd let him start an exhibition game.

We have 3 viable options for LOOGYS aside from Matt. 1,) Cotts who took a step backward this year but could very well be lights out again next and could replace Matt as an 7-8th inning guy like '05. 2.) Logan, he has shown flashes of what he is capable of at the ML level(aside from walking people) and Cotts was practically gift wrapping the LOOGY role for him, but he hasn't found his success at the ML level like he did at the MILB level this year(42.2IP, 12BB/57SO) but again hes only 21 and has made huge strides, he has a future at the ML level 3.) Heath Phillips, He is going to become one of four things, the next Buehrle, an effective middle reliever, a LOOGY, or an AAAA.

OEO Magglio
10-09-2006, 05:28 AM
No. First off, he's way too darn valuable to our bullpen. While the Sox need to add some depth to the pen the back 3 are about as good as any in baseball. Next, he has 2 pitches a fastball and a slider. And while his slider has improved, it still needs some work to become a really effective pitch. At times it's nasty but he's inconsistant with it. Taking Matt out of the pen would be a horrible idea.

goofymsfan
10-09-2006, 11:57 AM
A couple of things i believe when Matt faced the sox as a starter it was before he had TJ.

Matt did feature a very late breaking pitch, it wasn't his slider, im not sure what it was but he featured it against LAA near the end of the year. LHP that throw 98+ are very hard to find, if he can develop a change up to go along with his so so slider, then yes i would at least audition him for the rotation in ST and if that went well I'd let him start an exhibition game.



Matt didn't make it to Seattle until 2004. He had left elbow UCL surgery between 2002-2003.

Control has been Matt's biggest problem. He seems to be getting that under control in limited innings. Why mess with something that has become a strength to your pen?

Sox-o-matic
10-09-2006, 02:04 PM
Thornton's value as a starter would far outweigh his value as a relief pitcher. If Cooper could convert him into another lefty starter that would be great for the Sox. Another lefty for the pen could be found/ traded for.

I think he could learn a change-up, that's one of the easiest pitches to learn.

Yes, his value would increase and that is exactly why he may want to start again one day.

As long as the Sox control him, and as long as he puts up the numbers he has been, there is no reason to mess with success. Sure, maybe he could do a decent job. Maybe. But maybe he could suck, too.

If we were the KC Royals I'd be all for it, but the Sox are a playoff contender and there is no reason to experiment with something that doesn't need to be experimented with while trying to make the playoffs.

BTW, Bobby Jenks, Mike MacDougal, Keith Foulke, Damaso Marte, and Neal Cotts, just to name a few, were all starters at one point or another in their careers. How come no one is mentioning turning these guys back into starters? What makes Thornton so different or so special?

KyWhiSoxFan
10-09-2006, 02:09 PM
No. He does not have enough pitches to be a starter. He is effective as a reliever, so keep him there.

munchman33
10-09-2006, 04:15 PM
BTW, Bobby Jenks, Mike MacDougal, Keith Foulke, Damaso Marte, and Neal Cotts, just to name a few, were all starters at one point or another in their careers. How come no one is mentioning turning these guys back into starters? What makes Thornton so different or so special?

People mentioned it with Foulke all the time. And both Cotts and Thornton have had the idea tossed around about them.

The need for good starting pitching exponentially outweighs the need for good relief work. All avenues must be examined to create the team with the best chance of competing.

Sox-o-matic
10-10-2006, 12:37 AM
People mentioned it with Foulke all the time. And both Cotts and Thornton have had the idea tossed around about them.

The need for good starting pitching exponentially outweighs the need for good relief work. All avenues must be examined to create the team with the best chance of competing.

As far as the whole league goes, yes. But not this team. We have 6 starting pitchers and no front end of a bullpen. This team should be more concerned with filling areas that need to be filled than opening up more holes and creating more problems.

Thornton as a starter, at least as a member if the Sox, is foolish and totally unrealistic.

Britt Burns
10-10-2006, 12:46 PM
I am not against letting relievers get a shot at starters-Cotts, for instance. In this case I just don't think Thornton would fare well as a starter. He still is a bit wild, and it is doubtful he could sustain his greatest asset-his velocity-throughout six or seven innings over the course of a season. I like him where he is-a great lefty in the pen and a strong plan B should anything happen to Jenks.

I want Mags back
10-10-2006, 12:59 PM
give me a second to think bout it


no

Flight #24
10-10-2006, 01:57 PM
There is only 1 way in which this makes sense:

1) Coop, Ozzie, KW, etc have to be convinced that he's got enough pitches and has "turned the corner" enough to be an effective starter. That could include a trip to the minors.

2) KW can trade Garcia/Vazquez for some package including 2-3 good relievers, thus negating the "need" for Thornton in the pen.

If these 2 can happen, then Thornton COULD fulfill the McCarthy role of "starter-in-waiting" / 6th starter that is frequently necessary. Otherwise, it's not of enough value to the 2007 Sox to be a useful move.

However, I don't see how that's going to happen since Garcia is going to be gone to acquire ARod. I suppose they could plug in Ozuna instead of Garcia in the trade discussions.......

NOTE: For those thoroughly confused by that last paragraph, I suggest you check out "Whats the Score".

ondafarm
10-10-2006, 10:41 PM
People mentioned it with Foulke all the time. And both Cotts and Thornton have had the idea tossed around about them.

The need for good starting pitching exponentially outweighs the need for good relief work. All avenues must be examined to create the team with the best chance of competing.

Both Foulke and Cotts had a sneaky fastball, they required a lot of adjustment by the hitter. That type of pitching is difficult to maintain multiple times thru a line-up. That makes them poor candidates for starting pitchers.

Thornton has a free and easy delivery which could readily be converted into a solid starting pitcher. His fastball wouldn't loose speed or effectiveness a second or third time thru the lineup.

The Sox could use another solid lefty starter and speculation on Thornton is not idle chatter like it is with Foulke or Cotts.

Brewski
10-11-2006, 10:44 PM
If we can convert Thornton to a starter, which we already have 6 of, then we can trade Garland when he is at his maximum value to fill 3 spots in the bullpen. Genius! Naaaaaah. (You didn't think anyone could write that and be serious, did you?)

Frontman
10-12-2006, 06:20 PM
No, please KW and Ozzie, keep him in the bullpen. He was great for us in 2006.

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