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View Full Version : Thome/Nomar win Comeback POY, Thomas?


caulfield12
10-07-2006, 12:53 PM
I honestly think Thomas should have won.

He hadn't played for basically two years, he's two years older...everyone in baseball had a chance to sign him. And he was the most important offensive contributor to the A's, who actually MADE and advanced in the playoffs.

RKMeibalane
10-07-2006, 12:58 PM
I honestly think Thomas should have won.

He hadn't played for basically two years, he's two years older...everyone in baseball had a chance to sign him. And he was the most important offensive contributor to the A's, who actually MADE and advanced in the playoffs.

I don't mind seeing Thome win it. After all, Frank has a chance to be named ALCS or World Series MVP, either of which would be nicer awards to have.

Myrtle72
10-07-2006, 01:21 PM
Frank is a great player and all and he also had a great comeback, but yeah, he has other chances to win awards this year. Plus, it was a fan vote and I don't think Frank is quite as popular with fans from other teams, even the A's. Thome on the other hand is known for being one of the nicest guys in baseball.

(Is it me, or does it seem like every other thread around here lately is about Frank?)

goon
10-07-2006, 02:20 PM
I honestly think Thomas should have won.

He hadn't played for basically two years, he's two years older...everyone in baseball had a chance to sign him. And he was the most important offensive contributor to the A's, who actually MADE and advanced in the playoffs.


well, it's not the most valuable player award, so the whole arguement for making the playoffs can get thrown out the window. thome and thomas both had terrible years in 2005 and while in 2006 thomas put up some rather impressive numbers, thome had better numbers. lots of people thought both of these guys were done, and it's good to see they proved those doubters wrong.

i think it's pretty difficult to make a case for thomas after the year thome just had. plus, the main qualifications for the award is, i assume, the type of season you had prior to the current one... not age, not contracts, not playoff contention, but performance and thome just had the numbers over thomas, you can't argue with that.

personally, i'm happy for thome and glad that our guy got the award.

ND_Sox_Fan
10-07-2006, 02:39 PM
Frank had a poor first two months and Thome had a weak second half (compared to his first). The case for Frank is that he carried his team when it counted. Overall numbers are somewhat compareable.

As to the whole "spread the awards around" sentiment - it's garbage. Give the award to the guy who earned it - regardless of the number given to him.

RKMeibalane
10-07-2006, 02:42 PM
Frank is a great player and all and he also had a great comeback, but yeah, he has other chances to win awards this year. Plus, it was a fan vote and I don't think Frank is quite as popular with fans from other teams, even the A's. Thome on the other hand is known for being one of the nicest guys in baseball.

(Is it me, or does it seem like every other thread around here lately is about Frank?)

Actually, Frank is extremely popular with A's fans. The only fans who seem to have a problem with him are Sox fans.

gobears1987
10-07-2006, 05:21 PM
Once again the greatest pure hitter since Ted Williams gets screwed by the sportswriters.

GO FRANK!!! He's the reason I'm a Sox fan. I probably would've ended up a Tigers fan when I was growing up in SE Michigan if it wasn't for Frank.

gobears1987
10-07-2006, 05:22 PM
Actually, Frank is extremely popular with A's fans. The only fans who seem to have a problem with him are Sox fans.Yeah just check out the clubhouse threads with a bunch of dumbasses bashing Frank. Any Sox fan who bashes Frank is a bandwagoner.

areilly
10-07-2006, 05:26 PM
Once again the greatest pure hitter since Ted Williams gets screwed by the sportswriters.

Comeback Player of the Year is decided by a fan vote, not by the press.

ilsox7
10-07-2006, 05:31 PM
Yeah just check out the clubhouse threads with a bunch of dumbasses bashing Frank. Any Sox fan who bashes Frank is a bandwagoner.

Frank was a great hitter for the Sox, but many people have had very bad experiences with Frank. Just b/c someone does not like Frank as a person means very little about their dedication as a White Sox fan.

October26
10-07-2006, 05:39 PM
I honestly think Thomas should have won.

He hadn't played for basically two years, he's two years older...everyone in baseball had a chance to sign him. And he was the most important offensive contributor to the A's, who actually MADE and advanced in the playoffs.

I am a huge Frank Thomas fan, but am okay with Thome winning this. It is good that the fans have a vote and I'm happy for Jim that he won it. I hope it makes him more determined than ever to chase that world series ring that has eluded Thome during his playing career. Jim is getting up there in age and you never know how long you have left to play in this game. Here's hoping this motivates Jim Thome to lead the White Sox to the playoffs and World series in 2007.

SOXSINCE'70
10-07-2006, 05:41 PM
:thome:
"It's great to win this award,but i'd rather be
playing baseball in late October".

I'm sure Thome might say something like that.
Congratulations,JT!! Looking forward to 2007.

goon
10-07-2006, 05:58 PM
Frank had a poor first two months and Thome had a weak second half (compared to his first). The case for Frank is that he carried his team when it counted. Overall numbers are somewhat compareable.


yeah, but it's not the MVP and while the numbers are "somewhat comparable", thome still had better numbers. thome derserves the award.

... and i guess in the beginning of the season the games didn't count right?:rolleyes: there were plenty of guys who didn't do their job on the white sox this year.

Martinigirl
10-07-2006, 06:02 PM
Frank was a great hitter for the Sox, but many people have had very bad experiences with Frank. Just b/c someone does not like Frank as a person means very little about their decication as a White Sox fan.

I couldn't agree more.

And I am thrilled for Thome. He truly seemed to bust his ass to get back, and he did just that.

Chips
10-07-2006, 06:07 PM
Comeback Player of the Year is decided by a fan vote, not by the press.

Exactly.

And just how did Thomas get screwed?

Thome hit 3 more jacks, hit 18 points higher and had 7 less RBI.

Thome deserved the award and he got it.

:supernana::supernana:

6700

hi im skot
10-07-2006, 06:56 PM
Yeah just check out the clubhouse threads with a bunch of dumbasses bashing Frank. Any Sox fan who bashes Frank is a bandwagoner.

Always obsessed with the "bandwagoners", eh?

Congrats, JI

JIM THOME.

:D:

goon
10-07-2006, 07:34 PM
Exactly.

And just how did Thomas get screwed?

Thome hit 3 more jacks, hit 18 points higher and had 7 less RBI.

Thome deserved the award and he got it.

:supernana::supernana:

6700


31 more runs
15 more doubles
26 more walks
higher onbase %
higher slugging %....

Frontman
10-07-2006, 08:06 PM
Yeah just check out the clubhouse threads with a bunch of dumbasses bashing Frank. Any Sox fan who bashes Frank is a bandwagoner.

*ahem* Narrowmindedness not withstanding, maybe a few of the Sox fanbase who have met Frank personally and seen first hand how he can be a jerk might NOT be a bandwagoner.

Not that I would know from firsthand experience how Frank treated some kids who wanted an autograph that he told he'd take care of them, only to blow them off later in the day. Nope, never saw a thing.

cheezheadsoxfan
10-07-2006, 08:07 PM
I'm thrilled for Thome, he deserves it.

Seems like Thomas obsession has replaced Rowand obsession. We're always complaining that the Sox don't get any respect. One of our guys gets a nice award and we're not happy with that. :?:

Frontman
10-07-2006, 10:49 PM
I'm thrilled for Thome, he deserves it.

Seems like Thomas obsession has replaced Rowand obsession. We're always complaining that the Sox don't get any respect. One of our guys gets a nice award and we're not happy with that. :?:

Exactly. And if the A's were not in the playoffs, we wouldn't get Frank updates anywhere near the level they are now.

On a side note, anyone else notice around here that the Rowand return clamouring died out just around the time he nearly killed himself and Chase Utley? Maybe folks finally caught on his antics wasn't as much good ball play as it was showboating...............


Front

DumpJerry
10-07-2006, 10:52 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79918

Merger time.

gobears1987
10-08-2006, 12:25 AM
yeah, but it's not the MVP and while the numbers are "somewhat comparable", thome still had better numbers. thome derserves the award.

... and i guess in the beginning of the season the games didn't count right?:rolleyes: there were plenty of guys who didn't do their job on the white sox this year.
Thome had his numbers in the most hitter friendly park in baseball with PK providing protection for him.

The Big Hurt had his numbers in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in baseball with no protection.

gobears1987
10-08-2006, 12:28 AM
I'm thrilled for Thome, he deserves it.

Seems like Thomas obsession has replaced Rowand obsession. We're always complaining that the Sox don't get any respect. One of our guys gets a nice award and we're not happy with that. :?:The Thomas obsession =/= the Rowand obsession. Saying so is dishonest on all levels.

Frank Thomas is the Chicago White Sox. To say that fans shouldn't be obsessed with him is like saying that all of the posters like Ol Number 2 and others who have user names dedicated to Nellie Fox need to get over their love for one of the greatest players in Sox franchise history. In case you didn't notice, Frank holds almost every franchise record and won the "Hometown Heroes" contest for the White Sox. He is the White Sox and always will be unless some rookie comes up and hits .325 with 600 or so HRs over his career with the Sox.

The people who hate Frank Thomas need to get the **** off of the bandwagon and go 8.1 miles north. Frank Thomas is the Sox, deal with it.

gobears1987
10-08-2006, 12:30 AM
*ahem* Narrowmindedness not withstanding, maybe a few of the Sox fanbase who have met Frank personally and seen first hand how he can be a jerk might NOT be a bandwagoner.

Not that I would know from firsthand experience how Frank treated some kids who wanted an autograph that he told he'd take care of them, only to blow them off later in the day. Nope, never saw a thing.
Rejecting autographs from some bonehead who is cutting into your dinner or stopping you while you are doing something does not make you a jerk. The person interrupting the player is the jerk in that case.

gobears1987
10-08-2006, 12:34 AM
Always obsessed with the "bandwagoners", eh?

Congrats, JI

JIM THOME.

:D:We had this discussion last May. Any fan who hates Frank Thomas is ignoring Sox history and is a bandwagoner.

Too bad Voodoo can't ban all of the dumb Frank haters. They are as bad as Jay Moronotti.

goon
10-08-2006, 12:37 AM
Thome had his numbers in the most hitter friendly park in baseball with PK providing protection for him.

The Big Hurt had his numbers in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in baseball with no protection.

wow, kinda reaching there...

maybe you should do some research and figure out what thomas and thome would have hit in the same park.

*****. i can understand supporting thomas, but i don't know how any person that calls themself a white sox fan could be upset with thome getting the award of thomas. this has gone beyond just arguing numbers, it's just "fans" soured by the sox not making the playoffs.

post script: my oakland a's hat is in the mail.

gobears1987
10-08-2006, 12:48 AM
wow, kinda reaching there...

maybe you should do some research and figure out what thomas and thome would have hit in the same park.

*****. i can understand supporting thomas, but i don't know how any person that calls themself a white sox fan could be upset with thome getting the award of thomas. this has gone beyond just arguing numbers, it's just "fans" soured by the sox not making the playoffs.

post script: my oakland a's hat is in the mail.
Perhaps you should know that the reason I became a White Sox fan was Frank Thomas. I was growing up in SE Michigan when I became a baseball fan. If I never saw Frank Thomas hit a homer during my first baseball game, I would've become a Tigers fan. No one else in my immediate family was a baseball fan so I would've ended up choosing the nearest team. I will ALWAYS support Frank Thomas even if he were on the Flubs.

As for the numbers, I think it is not a stretch to say Thomas's numbers would've been greater or equal to Thome's if he was at the always hitter friendly USCF. Anyone who has seen games at either park would know how different each park is in terms of the effect on statistics.

Nellie_Fox
10-08-2006, 01:02 AM
The case for Frank is that he carried his team when it counted. It's a "comeback" award. The case for Frank is that absolutely no one "in the know" expected this performance from him this year. However, when the Sox got Thome, everybody was conceding the AL Central to them.

Now, who came back further?

gobears1987
10-08-2006, 01:04 AM
It's a "comeback" award. The case for Frank is that absolutely no one "in the know" expected this performance from him this year. However, when the Sox got Thome, everybody was conceding the AL Central to them.

Now, who came back further?Now I know Jeter will win it (and I have to admit he deserves it), but do you think Frank will finish in the top 5 for MVP?

Nellie_Fox
10-08-2006, 01:11 AM
*ahem* Narrowmindedness not withstanding, maybe a few of the Sox fanbase who have met Frank personally and seen first hand how he can be a jerk might NOT be a bandwagoner.You know what? I don't care about this kind of crap. People have good days, they have bad days. So you personally witnessed a bad day. Other posters on here have personally witnessed good days. Why is your personal experience the more important?

I care about what he does inside the ballpark. As long as he isn't a criminal, I really don't care if he hurt your feelings one day. I've had no experience with him outside of the ballpark, but I can just guess that it is absolutely impossible for any big-time professional athlete to meet everyone's expectations.

goon
10-08-2006, 01:12 AM
As for the numbers, I think it is not a stretch to say Thomas's numbers would've been greater or equal to Thome's if he was at the always hitter friendly USCF. Anyone who has seen games at either park would know how different each park is in terms of the effect on statistics.

it's not a stretch at all, however, i think you missed the point. it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to figure out what each player would have hit if they batted in the same lineup and in the same park... because they didn't. so going by the numbers i'm going to tip my hat to the man who came out on top, to the man who is on the white sox now and to the guy that i am going to be rooting for in 2007.

frank thomas was a big part in a lot of people, my age in particular, becoming white sox fans, but i'm a white sox fan even though frank thomas is gone. it seems as if there are a lot of people who are upset that the organization let the guy go and in turn feel the need to discredit thome for his accomplishments this season. all things equal, jim thome had a great season and plays for my team now, so i'm going to support him.

besides, frank is in the playoffs, i'm sure jim would give the award back if he could be playing in october.

TDog
10-08-2006, 05:22 AM
Yeah just check out the clubhouse threads with a bunch of dumbasses bashing Frank. Any Sox fan who bashes Frank is a bandwagoner.


I am surprised that Thomas didn't win the comeback award -- not because he had a better season than Thome, which in some ways he did. Thomas deserved it. While Thome came off of an injury, Thomas came off of two injury-plagued season after his career appeared to be in decline.

However, Frank Thomas isn't the White Sox anymore. His success against the White Sox essentially knocked the White Sox out of playoff contention. I really wish he had failed. If being a real White Sox fan means cheering against the White Sox and putting the White Sox ahead of any other team in any sport for four decades is being a bandwagoner, my dictionary is out of date.

Frontman
10-08-2006, 07:26 AM
Rejecting autographs from some bonehead who is cutting into your dinner or stopping you while you are doing something does not make you a jerk. The person interrupting the player is the jerk in that case.

*sigh* I would say know your facts before you speak, but I guess if you weren't there, you wouldn't of seen Frank act like a complete ass to two kids.

Two kids attended his announcement at a CHILDREN'S MUSEUM where he was announcing to the press that he was starting a charity foundation, and when the kids approach politely, and Frank bent down and looked both square in the eye, smiled and said, "I have to go upstairs and talk to some people. Hang around, I'll take care of you later;" then these two kids do just that. I thought Frank was pretty cool for even taking that time to acknowledge them, as he was running late. They waited close to two hours with their Dad.

And when he finally did come down, he blew past the kids, act like he didn't even see them and then ignored their Dad. And then his "people" grab the Dad by the shirt and push him back, THAT isn't a jerk. That's a SOB who forgot why anyone would of cared he was starting a foundation in the first place. I stopped the situation before it got any worse when I was working security at said museum. It had to come down to a threat of exposure to lower the situation.

I pointed out that the press was already upstairs, I'm sure they would love to see this. Thomas and posse left chuckling (the two bodyguards were laughin, not Frank, as I didn't even want to look at him at that point.) And all he had to do was keep his word and sign two freakin' baseballs for two kids! It wasn't a mob, it was two kids. It wasn't a jerk interrupting his dinner, it wasn't a "collector" bringing a dozen balls, ten shirts, three gloves, and half-dozen photos; it wasn't a guy flipping Frank's fence and knocking on his door. It was a Dad and two kids. Those two kids left devastated, scared, and understood that The Big Hurt might of been cool on the field, but they saw a whole other side to their hero that day.

This isn't a story made up. This isn't an isolated incident. On the field, Frank Thomas was the best hitter in White Sox history, bar none. Off the field, he was an incredible ass who pissed off a whole hell of a lot of folks, starting with two kids and all the way up to his General Manager. Can you now understand why Jim Thome won in a popularity constest over Frank? For Pete's sake, we act like Viagra has some say in who will get into the Hall of Fame, its a freakin' popularity contest!

Think about it. And stop calling fans who appreciated Frank's play but couldn't stand the guy personally bandwagoners. Some of us know first hand what kind of a stand up guy Frank is.

cheezheadsoxfan
10-08-2006, 09:07 AM
The Thomas obsession =/= the Rowand obsession. Saying so is dishonest on all levels.

Frank Thomas is the Chicago White Sox. To say that fans shouldn't be obsessed with him is like saying that all of the posters like Ol Number 2 and others who have user names dedicated to Nellie Fox need to get over their love for one of the greatest players in Sox franchise history. In case you didn't notice, Frank holds almost every franchise record and won the "Hometown Heroes" contest for the White Sox. He is the White Sox and always will be unless some rookie comes up and hits .325 with 600 or so HRs over his career with the Sox.

The people who hate Frank Thomas need to get the **** off of the bandwagon and go 8.1 miles north. Frank Thomas is the Sox, deal with it.

Maybe obsession was the wrong word. And yes, Frank Thomas was an incredible ballplayer and the face of the Sox for a long time but he isn't now. Did I say I hated Frank Thomas? No, although I think he was often a pain in the ass in a lot of ways.

I hardly see how being happy that a current Sox player (who also happens to be known as a great guy with the fans) won an award makes me a bandwagoner. I grew up on the Southside, have been a White Sox fan since 1959. I have been in the urinal exactly one time in my life and that was to see Koufax pitch. I'm getting ****ing sick of people getting called bandwagoners at the drop of a hat if they disagree with someone. You're not the only "real" Sox fan out there, deal with it.

Myrtle72
10-08-2006, 01:07 PM
Perhaps you should know that the reason I became a White Sox fan was Frank Thomas. I was growing up in SE Michigan when I became a baseball fan. If I never saw Frank Thomas hit a homer during my first baseball game, I would've become a Tigers fan. No one else in my immediate family was a baseball fan so I would've ended up choosing the nearest team. I will ALWAYS support Frank Thomas even if he were on the Flubs.


That's great and I'm happy for you. But seriously, you can't possibly expect everyone to have the same opinion as you. I'm glad that you have found so much pride in calling yourself a Frank fan over the years, but that doesn't mean that everyone has to.

WSox597
10-08-2006, 05:16 PM
eah just check out the clubhouse threads with a bunch of dumbasses bashing Frank. Any Sox fan who bashes Frank is a bandwagoner.

Not exactly. And most are not bashing him really, just taking to task all those who worship this one-dimensional player. He's a great hitter. No argument. But don't EVEN say he's a great player. Not even close. A great DH, no doubt.

First baseman, not hardly. Can't run, can't throw, injury-prone. And a giant PITA as a person to all around him during his tenure here. But, a great hitter.

Bandwagoner, not hardly. I've followed the Sox since '59 when I was 7. Win or lose, great teams or crummy.

Before expansion, Thomas would have been tearing up AAA and that's about it. He wouldn't have made the big league team. Where would he play without the DH?

Frater Perdurabo
10-08-2006, 05:38 PM
Before expansion, Thomas would have been tearing up AAA and that's about it. He wouldn't have made the big league team. Where would he play without the DH?

Without the DH, he'd play first base. :kukoo:

gobears1987
10-08-2006, 06:04 PM
Without the DH, he'd play first base. :kukoo:Yeah, he played there until Manuel moved him to DH. Frank's numbers went down actually. Frank has always produced better when he was playing 1B. A lot players in that situation where they don't perform as well in the DH slot.

RKMeibalane
10-08-2006, 06:07 PM
*sigh* I would say know your facts before you speak, but I guess if you weren't there, you wouldn't of seen Frank act like a complete ass to two kids.

Two kids attended his announcement at a CHILDREN'S MUSEUM where he was announcing to the press that he was starting a charity foundation, and when the kids approach politely, and Frank bent down and looked both square in the eye, smiled and said, "I have to go upstairs and talk to some people. Hang around, I'll take care of you later;" then these two kids do just that. I thought Frank was pretty cool for even taking that time to acknowledge them, as he was running late. They waited close to two hours with their Dad.

And when he finally did come down, he blew past the kids, act like he didn't even see them and then ignored their Dad. And then his "people" grab the Dad by the shirt and push him back, THAT isn't a jerk. That's a SOB who forgot why anyone would of cared he was starting a foundation in the first place. I stopped the situation before it got any worse when I was working security at said museum. It had to come down to a threat of exposure to lower the situation.

I pointed out that the press was already upstairs, I'm sure they would love to see this. Thomas and posse left chuckling (the two bodyguards were laughin, not Frank, as I didn't even want to look at him at that point.) And all he had to do was keep his word and sign two freakin' baseballs for two kids! It wasn't a mob, it was two kids. It wasn't a jerk interrupting his dinner, it wasn't a "collector" bringing a dozen balls, ten shirts, three gloves, and half-dozen photos; it wasn't a guy flipping Frank's fence and knocking on his door. It was a Dad and two kids. Those two kids left devastated, scared, and understood that The Big Hurt might of been cool on the field, but they saw a whole other side to their hero that day.

This isn't a story made up. This isn't an isolated incident. On the field, Frank Thomas was the best hitter in White Sox history, bar none. Off the field, he was an incredible ass who pissed off a whole hell of a lot of folks, starting with two kids and all the way up to his General Manager. Can you now understand why Jim Thome won in a popularity constest over Frank? For Pete's sake, we act like Viagra has some say in who will get into the Hall of Fame, its a freakin' popularity contest!

Think about it. And stop calling fans who appreciated Frank's play but couldn't stand the guy personally bandwagoners. Some of us know first hand what kind of a stand up guy Frank is.

Have you considered the possibility that Frank was in such a hurry that he forgot? It seems like most of the problem was caused by his bodyguards, not him. Besides, 99% of the people who have met Frank have said nice things about him. This was one incident. I don't recall reading about any other negative incidents involving Frank and fans. This was one incident. You can count to one, can't you?

Quit whining. Everybody has bad days. Contrary to popular belief, athletes are not obligated to sign autographs for anyone, and that includes children. This is at least the third or fourth you've bitched and moaned on this board about an incident that didn't even involve you. I for one am ****ing sick and tired of reading it. You've guaranteed yourself a spot on my ignore list for your constant complaining.

Myrtle72
10-08-2006, 06:10 PM
Quit whining. Everybody has bad days. Contrary to popular belief, athletes are not obligated to sign autographs for anyone, and that includes children. This is at least the third or fourth you've bitched and moaned on this board about an incident that didn't even involve you. I for one am ****ing sick and tired of reading it. You've guaranteed yourself a spot on my ignore list for your constant complaining.

It certainly seems like people are bickering a lot lately. Disagreeing about something doesn't always mean that you have to get in a fight or get put on someone's ignore list or whatever. But hey, that's just my opinion. :cool:

And so this post isn't completely off-topic... I still stand by the fact that this particular award is decided by fans and therefore, could have absolutely nothing to do with stats. It's fan opinion and in many ways a popularity contest.

RKMeibalane
10-08-2006, 06:12 PM
If being a real White Sox fan means cheering against the White Sox and putting the White Sox ahead of any other team in any sport for four decades is being a bandwagoner, my dictionary is out of date.

Where exactly did he say he was rooting against the White Sox? GoBears1987 said that he was rooting for Frank Thomas. That does not mean he is automatically rooting against the Sox. I'm ****ing sick and tired of your "holier than thou" attitude regarding what makes someone a true Sox fan. You have bitched about Frank Thomas for months. You have criticized other Sox fans for months, all for the glorification of your own massive ego.

You will shortly be joining Frontman and numerous other whiners and complainers on my ignore list, because I am sick and tired of reading your bull**** over and over again.

Chips
10-08-2006, 06:15 PM
It certainly seems like people are bickering a lot lately. Disagreeing about something doesn't always mean that you have to get in a fight or get put on someone's ignore list or whatever. But hey, that's just my opinion. :cool:

And so this post isn't completely off-topic... I still stand by the fact that this particular away is decided by fans and therefore, could have absolutely nothing to do with stats. It's fan opinion and in many ways a popularity contest.

Even if it had to do with stats, Thome had more hits, more doubles, more homers, a higher average, more walks, a higher OBP, higher slugging percentage, and more total bases.

Thomas had more RBI and fewer strikeouts.

Thome deserved the award and he got. :cheers:

Frontman
10-08-2006, 07:04 PM
It certainly seems like people are bickering a lot lately. Disagreeing about something doesn't always mean that you have to get in a fight or get put on someone's ignore list or whatever. But hey, that's just my opinion. :cool:

And so this post isn't completely off-topic... I still stand by the fact that this particular award is decided by fans and therefore, could have absolutely nothing to do with stats. It's fan opinion and in many ways a popularity contest.

Exactly. Given how Thome takes time out, and Frank "ignores" or "forgets" kids, especially ones he promised to take care of, its reaaaaaalllllllly hard to say Thome deserved a fan based award over Frank.

And if someone chooses to ignore another due to a differing of opinion, the ignorer is the one to loose out in the end. Basically, at the end of the day, as we all disagree with each other over time, all you have left to talk to is yourself if you ignore every person you don't disagree with.

Front

Frontman
10-08-2006, 07:10 PM
Quit whining. Everybody has bad days. Contrary to popular belief, athletes are not obligated to sign autographs for anyone, and that includes children. This is at least the third or fourth you've bitched and moaned on this board about an incident that didn't even involve you. I for one am ****ing sick and tired of reading it. You've guaranteed yourself a spot on my ignore list for your constant complaining.

Where exactly am I whining? Where exactly do I wish Thomas should fall off the face of the Earth? Where exactly do I say he doesn't belong in the Hall, or that he wasn't the greatest hitter in Sox history? Where did I type that I wouldn't want to see Frank's number retired, or want to see a statue of him on the concourse?

I can respect the athelete, yet have little respect for the person. Being able to crush the hell out of a baseball does not give a guy a pass on being a jerk. That isn't a bitch, it isn't a moan. Its a fact that I witnessed (and I have heard of other moments of Frank being a jerk) that if you want to ignore me, by all means. I'll take that as an honor, as obviously you couldn't read a darn thing critically that you don't agree with. I might not agree with 100% here, but at least I'm willing to read what they have to say. Disagreement=discussion+an open mind=learning.

Front

P.S. And considering I broke up the situation, I would definately consider the incident in question being something that involved me. Granted, since I don't worship at the altar of Thomas, you probably consider that just me whining.

A. Cavatica
10-08-2006, 07:13 PM
all you have left to talk to is yourself if you ignore every person you don't disagree with.

<Chips>
Hey, where'd everybody go?
</Chips>

fquaye149
10-08-2006, 07:21 PM
Where exactly am I whining? Where exactly do I wish Thomas should fall off the face of the Earth? Where exactly do I say he doesn't belong in the Hall, or that he wasn't the greatest hitter in Sox history? Where did I type that I wouldn't want to see Frank's number retired, or want to see a statue of him on the concourse?

I can respect the athelete, yet have little respect for the person. Being able to crush the hell out of a baseball does not give a guy a pass on being a jerk. That isn't a bitch, it isn't a moan. Its a fact that I witnessed (and I have heard of other moments of Frank being a jerk) that if you want to ignore me, by all means. I'll take that as an honor, as obviously you couldn't read a darn thing critically that you don't agree with. I might not agree with 100% here, but at least I'm willing to read what they have to say. Disagreement=discussion+an open mind=learning.

Front

P.S. And considering I broke up the situation, I would definately consider the incident in question being something that involved me. Granted, since I don't worship at the altar of Thomas, you probably consider that just me whining.

So you give one incident by Frank against the myriad POSITIVE incidents people have posted, and you ASSUME that nothing like that ever happened involving Thome?

And by the way that story was ridiculous. It hardly constitutes someone being a jerk. What it seems to me is that Frank forgot the "promise" he made to a couple kids and then the adult in question decided to get confrontational about it, threatening to CALL THE PRESS to make Frank look bad because he forgot he said he was going to sign a couple autographs.

Jeez, if Frank is an *******, what does that make the guy in the story? Actually, I have some words I might have in mind.

Chips
10-08-2006, 07:24 PM
How about a Congratualtions to Nomar?

Congrats Nomar. :cheers:

TDog
10-08-2006, 07:28 PM
Where exactly did he say he was rooting against the White Sox? GoBears1987 said that he was rooting for Frank Thomas. That does not mean he is automatically rooting against the Sox. I'm ****ing sick and tired of your "holier than thou" attitude regarding what makes someone a true Sox fan. You have bitched about Frank Thomas for months. You have criticized other Sox fans for months, all for the glorification of your own massive ego.

You will shortly be joining Frontman and numerous other whiners and complainers on my ignore list, because I am sick and tired of reading your bull**** over and over again.

Cheering for a player who is playing against the White Sox is cheering against the White Sox. And, for the record, my post was in response to holier-than-thou posts that labeled people who don't continue to support Frank Thomas as bandwagoners. (Technically, they jumped on the A's bandwagon this season.) I don't believe I'm alone at being angered at White Sox fans applauding Frank Thomas hitting home runs against the White Sox.

Myrtle72
10-08-2006, 07:30 PM
And, for the record, my post was in response to holier-than-thou posts that labeled people who don't continue to support Frank Thomas as bandwagoners. (Technically, they jumped on the A's bandwagon this season.)

Bingo!

TDog
10-08-2006, 07:33 PM
Even if it had to do with stats, Thome had more hits, more doubles, more homers, a higher average, more walks, a higher OBP, higher slugging percentage, and more total bases.

Thomas had more RBI and fewer strikeouts.

Thome deserved the award and he got. :cheers:

Jim Thome deserves congratulations, but Frank Thomas deserved the award because he came from farther back and was a catalyst in leading his team to a division championship. He had a renaissance season after his career appeared to be over. Thome came back from an injury with numbers that weren't overwhelmingly better on an underachieving team.

ND_Sox_Fan
10-08-2006, 07:58 PM
How about a Congratualtions to Nomar?

Congrats Nomar. :cheers:
Yeah - a little ex-Cub syndrome in effect.

fquaye149
10-08-2006, 08:07 PM
Bingo!

Bzzt. Wrong. You guys should perhaps figure out exactly what a "bandwagoner" is. IT certainly isn't someone who roots for a team that has their favorite player on it.

Frontman
10-08-2006, 11:17 PM
So you give one incident by Frank against the myriad POSITIVE incidents people have posted, and you ASSUME that nothing like that ever happened involving Thome?

And by the way that story was ridiculous. It hardly constitutes someone being a jerk. What it seems to me is that Frank forgot the "promise" he made to a couple kids and then the adult in question decided to get confrontational about it, threatening to CALL THE PRESS to make Frank look bad because he forgot he said he was going to sign a couple autographs.

Jeez, if Frank is an *******, what does that make the guy in the story? Actually, I have some words I might have in mind.

And you care to share some of those words, or is that a veiled "let's piss off Frontman enough to get him banned from here?" type garbage. Sorry, I ain't biting. Troll that bait past someone else. Say what you will about me, but I sure as hell am not stupid enough to insult you or call you anything to get my rear banned.

Whatever man. You weren't there, you didn't see the situation unfold, and you didn't have to step into it created by someone's ego...I'm sorry, forgetfulness. And a situation that had the man had any class, he could of stepped in and called off his guys himself instead of having someone else point out to him it would be bad press. Hell, I remember a day when you could stand outside the ballpark and get an autograph, and if a kid got overlooked, players actually came back and said, "Sorry kid."

You guys can have all the love for Frank; mind, body, and soul. You know, you're right, and I am so so wrong. I see the error in my line of thought. FRANK THOMAS IS THE NICEST MAN ON THE PLANET. HE DESERVED TO BE Comeback Player of the Year. Kenny Williams must of never gotten to know Frank well enough after all those years to say what he said about Frank, much less what a guy like me would have to say!!!

Be upset that a current Sox player beat out an ex-Sox player all you want IN A POPULARITY CONTEST; where the ex-Sox player playing in a smaller market compared to Chicago. For each Sox fan who voted for Frank, is it even remotely possible for you to consider Thome probably had Cleveland/Philly fans voting for him?

Call anyone you'd like a bandwagoner all you want. Quite frankly, it sure doesn't matter to me, even if the A's win the freakin' series. The team I root for, AKA The Chicago White Sox, is out of it; Frank and his current team is in it; and at the end of the day, do you really think the 2006 Viagra Comeback Player of the Year award will effect the chance of Frank to enter the Hall of Fame or for the A's to win the ALCS?

I knew what I saw back then and stand by what I did. You all are so quick to jump all over Hawk for being an ass, yet give the Big Hurt a pass. Whatever, you don't want discussion, you want everyone to agree with your take that it wasn't fair that fans picked Thome over Thomas. Guess what, life isn't fair, and I'm done. I'm taking TornLabrum's advice from the other "It's so unfair that Frank didn't win" thread and moving on.

Done with this thread.


Front

Scottzilla
10-09-2006, 05:46 PM
I will ALWAYS support Frank Thomas even if he were on the Flubs.

Let's not get crazy now.

its a popularity contest. nomar has always been a crowd pleaser as well as thome.

mlbs individual awards are sounding like a bad prom. not just king and queen but a princess and prince and count and countess etc...

Beer Can Chicken
10-09-2006, 06:03 PM
Thomas probably could have won the award if he had his vocal cords removed. He pretty much carried his team when it mattered most. Unfortunately, he has diarrhea of the mouth and is not nearly as charismatic as Thome.

fquaye149
10-09-2006, 06:45 PM
And you care to share some of those words, or is that a veiled "let's piss off Frontman enough to get him banned from here?" type garbage. Sorry, I ain't biting. Troll that bait past someone else. Say what you will about me, but I sure as hell am not stupid enough to insult you or call you anything to get my rear banned.

Whatever man. You weren't there, you didn't see the situation unfold, and you didn't have to step into it created by someone's ego...I'm sorry, forgetfulness. And a situation that had the man had any class, he could of stepped in and called off his guys himself instead of having someone else point out to him it would be bad press. Hell, I remember a day when you could stand outside the ballpark and get an autograph, and if a kid got overlooked, players actually came back and said, "Sorry kid."

You guys can have all the love for Frank; mind, body, and soul. You know, you're right, and I am so so wrong. I see the error in my line of thought. FRANK THOMAS IS THE NICEST MAN ON THE PLANET. HE DESERVED TO BE Comeback Player of the Year. Kenny Williams must of never gotten to know Frank well enough after all those years to say what he said about Frank, much less what a guy like me would have to say!!!

Be upset that a current Sox player beat out an ex-Sox player all you want IN A POPULARITY CONTEST; where the ex-Sox player playing in a smaller market compared to Chicago. For each Sox fan who voted for Frank, is it even remotely possible for you to consider Thome probably had Cleveland/Philly fans voting for him?

Call anyone you'd like a bandwagoner all you want. Quite frankly, it sure doesn't matter to me, even if the the scum laden A's win the freakin' series. The team I root for, AKA The Chicago White Sox, is out of it; Frank and his current team is in it; and at the end of the day, do you really think the 2006 Viagra Comeback Player of the Year award will effect the chance of Frank to enter the Hall of Fame or for the the scum laden A's to win the ALCS?

I knew what I saw back then and stand by what I did. You all are so quick to jump all over Hawk for being an ass, yet give the Big Hurt a pass. Whatever, you don't want discussion, you want everyone to agree with your take that it wasn't fair that fans picked Thome over Thomas. Guess what, life isn't fair, and I'm done. I'm taking TornLabrum's advice from the other "It's so unfair that Frank didn't win" thread and moving on.

Done with this thread.


Front

I didn't call you a bandwagoner .I would say that when someone tells a story about how outraged he was about someone, that story is usually slanted in such a way as to highlight the flaws of the person in question, and to minimize any mitigating factor. Since we only have your point of view all we have is this:

Frank said he'd sign some autographs.
He came out and gave the impression he wasn't going to sign those autographs.
The guy with the kids said something.
The situation immediately escalated.
The guy with the kids threatened to sic the press on Frank.

Sorry, this just seems a little sketchy--why did Frank and his bodyguards immediately become agitated? What did they guy say? WHY would a guy who is known to sign lots of autographs all the time for tons of people refuse to sign two autographs?

There's a lot of unknowns, and I'm sorry, but my best guess at filling in the blanks goes something like this:

Frank promises to sign the autographs, goes and does a two hour ceremony and then forgets that he made a promise to the kids. The kids are waiting and Frank walks by, having forgotten his promise. The adult says something like "WHAT THE HELL FRANK, YOU PROMISED!" or something similarly confrontational. Things go on from there.

The only other possibility is that something happened in those 2 hours that put Frank in a bad mood. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he had a call with some bad news and the last thing he wanted to think about was some guy badgering him to sign two autographs. You know, a bad day like everyone in the universe has.

I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused why a guy who is known to sign autographs ALL THE TIME would get in a huge confrontation with a guy who was merely politely requesting two autographs for kids.

But like you say, I wasn't there. You mind filling these blanks in for me?

Scottzilla
10-09-2006, 07:37 PM
it is hard to judge a man on one persons account of an incident, i know i met frank opening day of 04, he was one of the few players to stop and sign autographs outside the gate and was super nice and had a smile on his face.

he didnt even give me a funny look for being a grown man and asking for his autograph lol

TDog
10-09-2006, 07:53 PM
...

Whatever man. ...

I know where you're coming from. Unfortunately, you related an experience about a player who Sox fans have been excusing for years. Had your story featured Kerry Wood it would have been better received.

I have had numerous encounters with Frank Thomas, in and out of Chicago, and I don't believe he enjoys dealing with fans. Really, a lot of people who aren't ballplayers don't like dealing with people they don't know. I always found Thomas friendlier with fans in Anaheim than with the fans in Chicago, and I'm not sure why that was the case. On Sunday afternoons in Anaheim he ALWAYS signed autographs after batting practice. A couple of times I walked past his wife and son in the stands in Anaheim, but I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I'm sure he signed in Chicago, but I never saw it at any game I went to. Maybe Thomas only looks at fans as part of the job he has to deal with. Some people will interpret that as a negative observation. I wouldn't call Thomas hostile to fans, as Albert Belle was. I think people attribute qualities to him that they would like him to have.

The man-love for Frank Thomas has nothing to do with his fan interaction, something Aaron Rowand and Rocky Biddle were very good at. People here have stories about hanging out with Aaron and Rocky. But there is no comparison. Aaron and Rocky are people-people who play(ed) baseball. Frank Thomas is a legendary hitter.

As for supporting Thomas if he played for the Cubs, I would find it easier to do. I don't like the Cubs. If the Cubs lose 100 games in a season, I'm disappointed they're winning 62. But Thomas would only start three games against the Sox. Thomas would be safely harmless as far as the Sox are concerned.

Of course, there is no way Frank Thomas would ever play for the Cubs. He doesn't play second base.

Myrtle72
10-09-2006, 09:41 PM
I know where you're coming from. Unfortunately, you related an experience about a player who Sox fans have been excusing for years. Had your story featured Kerry Wood it would have been better received.

There ya go.

gobears1987
10-10-2006, 12:19 AM
All of the Frank haters should go read this week's "Fallen Arches" column on the main page. It pretty much says it all.

Frank Thomas is the best ballplayer to ever play in this city. Heaven forbid, a few decades down the road we may be a subpar team. When that happens, fans will be looking back to Frank Thomas and be dreaming about having a player like that on the team.

goon
10-10-2006, 01:56 AM
All of the Frank haters should go read this week's "Fallen Arches" column on the main page. It pretty much says it all.

Frank Thomas is the best ballplayer to ever play in this city. Heaven forbid, a few decades down the road we may be a subpar team. When that happens, fans will be looking back to Frank Thomas and be dreaming about having a player like that on the team.

that's the great thing about prospects and young players, hopefully the white sox end up with a guy who could hit like frank someday. good and sometimes great hitters all come and go, no one will forget what frank thomas did for this franchise.

TDog
10-10-2006, 03:20 AM
All of the Frank haters should go read this week's "Fallen Arches" column on the main page. It pretty much says it all.

Frank Thomas is the best ballplayer to ever play in this city. Heaven forbid, a few decades down the road we may be a subpar team. When that happens, fans will be looking back to Frank Thomas and be dreaming about having a player like that on the team.

I'm an A's hater. Appreciating what Frank Thomas did for the White Sox doesn't mean I want to see him succeed for a team I hate more the the Cubs and pummel the White Sox into submission along the way. Cheering for the A's to win now -- thank you, sir, may I have another -- isn't going to make me feel any better when the Sox have a subpar team. Hypothetically (as I have no ex-wife), if my ex-wife suddenly becomes a cultural icon after cutting off all ties between us -- except to occasionally embarrass me in public -- it does me no good except to annoy people by reminding them that she used to be my wife. Even if I still care about her, the situation is, at best, frustrating.

Frank Thomas is ex of the White Sox. If he wins a ring this year, it will be an A's ring.

Edit: Interesting what happens now when you post something referring to Oakland's American League team by name.

Jaffar
10-10-2006, 08:10 AM
Hypothetically (as I have no ex-wife), if my ex-wife suddenly becomes a cultural icon after cutting off all ties between us -- except to occasionally embarrass me in public -- it does me no good except to annoy people by reminding them that she used to be my wife. Even if I still care about her, the situation is, at best, frustrating.

Frank Thomas is ex of the White Sox. If he wins a ring this year, it will be an the scum laden A's ring.

Edit: Interesting what happens now when you post something referring to Oakland's American League team by name.

Going with this idea I think it's safe to say the marriage was between Frank and the White Sox so he is not an "ex" to any fan of his. On that note, I would say the fans would be more like the kids that got drug through a bad divorce so they still care deeply for both sides. KW would be like that parent that always talked bad about the other to the kids so you wouldn't hate him for the divorce.

This argument is never going to end.

ode to veeck
10-10-2006, 09:32 AM
Actually, Frank is extremely popular with the scum laden A's fans. The only fans who seem to have a problem with him are Sox fans.

... the ones that should be labeled the scum laden Sox fans

ode to veeck
10-10-2006, 09:41 AM
Q: on those two days in Oakland a few weeks back who would you rather have hitting against the Sox in those situations, Thome or Frank?

A: obvious answer (and it's not even close), Hurt is the absolute last guy in the world you wanted hitting against the Sox there

I rest my case. Frank should have won the award. Without Frank, the Oakland club doesn't even make the playoffs. Meanwhile, Thome is almost as big as the pitching's role in the Sox talent disappearing act in Aug/Sept06.

ode to veeck
10-10-2006, 09:47 AM
The other thing that struck me about the award was in winter 05/06, it really looked like Frank's career was possibly done, that his body might not physically be capable of playing any part of a full season anymore ... and then he has a Frankesque year again, or should I say a 2/3 of a year, as he was still recovering up to June or so. On the other hand, did any Sox fan not think (at the time), the Thome move was a smart thing for the Sox and that they were getting the healthier body for DH?

KMKsuburbannoise
10-10-2006, 12:54 PM
Nomar definently deserved it. Altought I have heard rumors of a Thomas MVP? i doubt it though.

TDog
10-10-2006, 02:50 PM
Going with this idea I think it's safe to say the marriage was between Frank and the White Sox so he is not an "ex" to any fan of his. ....


I suppose that would depend on whether you are a White Sox fan or a Frank Thomas fan. Had Frank Thomas never played for the White Sox, I'm sure I would have never been a Frank Thomas fan. Had that Sox won a few more games in 1988, the Angels may have chosen Thomas. If they had still picked Kyle Abbott with the seventh pick, the Cubs would have been free to pick Thomas instead of Earl Cunningham. Maybe the Sox would have drafted Cal Eldred or Mo Vaughn instead and they would have become popular South Side icons, and I wouldn't have become a huge Thomas fan. I know I wouldn't have become a Cubs fan if Frank Thomas had come up with the Cubs.

It isn't like he saved my life in Nam, or even that we went to school together or I got to know how cool he was when he dated my sister. The bar is much lower than that. He has never demonstrated the class of Harold Baines, and Aaron Rowand was a lot cooler with Sox fans in just a few years than Frank Thomas ever was during his career -- although many will assert that is just because believe that's just because he's been misunderstood and underappreciated by the media. The truth is, if Frank Thomas isn't playing for the White Sox, he isn't helping my team and I get no joy from cheering for him.

Jaffar
10-11-2006, 08:50 AM
I suppose that would depend on whether you are a White Sox fan or a Frank Thomas fan. Had Frank Thomas never played for the White Sox, I'm sure I would have never been a Frank Thomas fan. Had that Sox won a few more games in 1988, the Angels may have chosen Thomas. If they had still picked Kyle Abbott with the seventh pick, the Cubs would have been free to pick Thomas instead of Earl Cunningham. Maybe the Sox would have drafted Cal Eldred or Mo Vaughn instead and they would have become popular South Side icons, and I wouldn't have become a huge Thomas fan. I know I wouldn't have become a Cubs fan if Frank Thomas had come up with the Cubs.

It isn't like he saved my life in Nam, or even that we went to school together or I got to know how cool he was when he dated my sister. The bar is much lower than that. He has never demonstrated the class of Harold Baines, and Aaron Rowand was a lot cooler with Sox fans in just a few years than Frank Thomas ever was during his career -- although many will assert that is just because believe that's just because he's been misunderstood and underappreciated by the media. The truth is, if Frank Thomas isn't playing for the White Sox, he isn't helping my team and I get no joy from cheering for him.

It's prob safe to say if Frank was never on the Sox that we wouldn't be having this discussion but Frank was with the Sox for many years. That's about all I have to say because I won't argue with you about rooting for teams/players since everybody is different.