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Whitesox4ever
10-07-2006, 08:42 AM
There might not be anything to it yet, but, if Scott Boras, Rodriguez’s agent, whispers that Rodriguez is unhappy, teams would call. The Los Angeles Angels and the Chicago White Sox would love to add Rodriguez at $16 million a year and both have young pitchers the Yankees would want in return."


I would love to have him as our SS next year...

mccoydp
10-07-2006, 08:48 AM
There might not be anything to it yet, but, if Scott Boras, Rodriguez’s agent, whispers that Rodriguez is unhappy, teams would call. The Los Angeles Angels and the Chicago White Sox would love to add Rodriguez at $16 million a year and both have young pitchers the Yankees would want in return."


I would love to have him as our SS next year...

Ugh.

Only if the Sox could use him in the regular season, make the playoffs, and then bench his butt.

Craig Grebeck
10-07-2006, 09:02 AM
He has a career .305/.393/.534 line in the postseason. But hey, he's not clutch. I'd take him everday of the week.

Whitesox4ever
10-07-2006, 09:04 AM
Who would we have to give up to bring A Rod here..

I bet the yanks would want B Mac and several other young top pitching prospects

Flight #24
10-07-2006, 09:22 AM
Who would we have to give up to bring A Rod here..

I bet the yanks would want B Mac and several other young top pitching prospects

Garcia, Crede, Broadway. Not many teams can take on that contract, even at $16M. Yanks need pitching, and a replacement 3B. I hate to give up Crede, but Fields+ARod >>>> Crede+Uribe offensively, and ARod's a gold-glover at SS like Uribe. The downgrade from Crede to Fields defensively is well worth the offensive upgrade.

Unlikely though. One thing for sure - the Yanks are going to want MLB-ready players or near-MLB-ready players. No couple year out prospects.

Paulwny
10-07-2006, 09:30 AM
Garcia, Crede, Broadway. Not many teams can take on that contract, even at $16M. Yanks need pitching, and a replacement 3B. I hate to give up Crede, but Fields+ARod >>>> Crede+Uribe offensively, and ARod's a gold-glover at SS like Uribe. The downgrade from Crede to Fields defensively is well worth the offensive upgrade.

Unlikely though. One thing for sure - the Yanks are going to want MLB-ready players or near-MLB-ready players. No couple year out prospects.

Yep, with the yankee win now philosophy it'll be a starter, not named Contreras or Vazquez, along with Crede and possibly a bull pen pitcher. As you said , unlikely.

Steelrod
10-07-2006, 09:40 AM
Who would we have to give up to bring A Rod here..

I bet the yanks would want B Mac and several other young top pitching prospects
Crede, Uribe, Garcia for Arod and propect!

Sox Fan 35
10-07-2006, 09:51 AM
We don't need A-Rod. We need pitching.

samram
10-07-2006, 10:14 AM
Garcia, Crede, Broadway. Not many teams can take on that contract, even at $16M. Yanks need pitching, and a replacement 3B. I hate to give up Crede, but Fields+ARod >>>> Crede+Uribe offensively, and ARod's a gold-glover at SS like Uribe. The downgrade from Crede to Fields defensively is well worth the offensive upgrade.

Unlikely though. One thing for sure - the Yanks are going to want MLB-ready players or near-MLB-ready players. No couple year out prospects.

Yeah. The only way the Sox wouldn't have to give up top prospects would be to give up Garland and Crede.

Britt Burns
10-07-2006, 10:16 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARod and Guillen...yeah, I could see that relationship working out well.

fquaye149
10-07-2006, 10:17 AM
We don't need A-Rod. We need pitching.

You can always use A-Rod. Now, if you have to seriously sacrifice pitching to get A-Rod, you might have a point.

But A-Rod is a vastly superior SS to Uribe, which would help out our existing pitchers.

fquaye149
10-07-2006, 10:18 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARod and Guillen...yeah, I could see that relationship working out well.

Yeah Ozzie hates...what? People who hit 30 HR with 100+ RBI and gold glove defense? I love Ozzie, but if I had to choose between Ozzie and a first ballot HOFer who is still in his prime...jeez

Myrtle72
10-07-2006, 10:23 AM
I certainly hope I don't have to see A-Rod in a Sox uniform. Ever.

tebman
10-07-2006, 10:27 AM
We don't need A-Rod. We need pitching.

:nod:

dickallen15
10-07-2006, 10:30 AM
ARod is the best player in the game. Get him out of NY and he will flourish. He had a bad year and still hit 35 homers and drove in 120 in a park not exactly ideal for right handed power hitters. He would hit 45+ homers a season with the Sox. I would love to see him in a White Sox uniform. That said, I think pitching is far more important, and KW needs to spend a lot of time and money fixing that aspect of the team before he does anything this collosal.

PaulDrake
10-07-2006, 11:11 AM
We don't need A-Rod. We need pitching. Agreed. I don't want ARod, and if that's unpopular here so be it.

Chips
10-07-2006, 11:17 AM
Rodriguez is ****ing excellent, but I would much rather get some kickass bullpen guys FIRST.

TheOldRoman
10-07-2006, 11:35 AM
We don't need A-Rod. We need pitching. Yeah, because our offense was so great this year. Who needs one of the top three hitters in the game, a power hitter who is NOT prone to two-month-long slumps, and is mobile on the basepaths. I say, get MORE slowfooted guys who hit 270-280 and swing for the fences every time.

People need to realize that our hitting was every bit as big a problem as our pitching this year. Our pitching staff sucked, but we lost countless games to horrible pitchers and mediocre lefties because the vaunted offense did jack ****. I am not saying we need A-Rod specifically, but we need to change something. We need consistant hitters, we need guys who are not allergic to taking walks, and we need guys who can hit lefties. Our ****ty pitching was due largely to consistant, relied upon pitchers having the worse years of their careers, while our ****ty offense had several guys having career years. Something needs to change.

As for A-Rod, unless you are trading the entire Knights team for him, you have to look at it. He is a future hall of famer for a reason. I honestly think with Guillen as a manager he could rise to heights he never has. Alex is too robotic and polished. He has a PR firm in his head. He needs to relax and be human. He needs to realize that you don't always have to wear an Armani to the park; you dont have to shave twice a day and get your hair cut every week. If he learns to relax and be himself (and of course is moved back to SS), I think he will put up career years. I love Crede, but Crede and Garcia for A-Rod? where do I sign?

caulfield12
10-07-2006, 11:41 AM
Yeah, because our offense was so great this year. Who needs one of the top three hitters in the game, a power hitter who is NOT prone to two-month-long slumps, and is mobile on the basepaths. I say, get MORE slowfooted guys who hit 270-280 and swing for the fences every time.

People need to realize that our hitting was every bit as big a problem as our pitching this year. Our pitching staff sucked, but we lost countless games to horrible pitchers and mediocre lefties because the vaunted offense did jack ****. I am not saying we need A-Rod specifically, but we need to change something. We need consistant hitters, we need guys who are not allergic to taking walks, and we need guys who can hit lefties. Our ****ty pitching was due largely to consistant, relied upon pitchers having the worse years of their careers, while our ****ty offense had several guys having career years. Something needs to change.

As for A-Rod, unless you are trading the entire Knights team for him, you have to look at it. He is a future hall of famer for a reason. I honestly think with Guillen as a manager he could rise to heights he never has. Alex is too robotic and polished. He has a PR firm in his head. He needs to relax and be human. He needs to realize that you don't always have to wear an Armani to the park; you dont have to shave twice a day and get your hair cut every week. If he learns to relax and be himself (and of course is moved back to SS), I think he will put up career years. I love Crede, but Crede and Garcia for A-Rod? where do I sign?


Remember, the got in trouble for NOT wearing an Armani to the park, he actually took off his shirt in Central Park and the newspapers had a field day with it because his being "sapped" of energy from the sun was used as the reason for his lack of performance that night.

palehozenychicty
10-07-2006, 11:50 AM
I certainly hope I don't have to see A-Rod in a Sox uniform. Ever.


:payrod:

Nee on A-Fraud.

October26
10-07-2006, 11:55 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARod and Guillen...yeah, I could see that relationship working out well.


Oh, come on. It would be so much fun and very entertaining.

Seriously, though. No. As great of a player as A-rod is and he is, we need to solidify our pitching.

Plus, with Boras as his agent, I don't think A-rod would sign with the Sox.

cws05champ
10-07-2006, 11:58 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARod and Guillen...yeah, I could see that relationship working out well.

You never know...guillen may have a great impact on A-rod, tell him to stop being so politically correct, relax and just play ball. If A-Rod gets comfortable in a situation, there's no telling what kind of #'s he may put up. I'm not the biggest A-Rod fan in the world, but you can't argue with his production.

All being said though, there is no way this happens...even shedding the payroll of Garcia, Crede, Uribe is almost a staight up in $ terms, and the Sox still have $95M committed to only 12 players.

SOXintheBURGH
10-07-2006, 12:04 PM
:contreras:

"I couldn't do it in New York either but I lead a team to the World Series."

buehrle4cy05
10-07-2006, 12:08 PM
Right now, A-Rod is pressing. He's trying to do too much because, IMO, he's feeling too much pressure from the New York media. If he came to a much more forgiving media town, he would probably have more success in the postseason.

That being said, I'd take him if the Yankees paid for 80% of that contract.

samram
10-07-2006, 12:13 PM
Right now, A-Rod is pressing. He's trying to do too much because, IMO, he's feeling too much pressure from the New York media. If he came to a much more forgiving media town, he would probably have more success in the postseason.

That being said, I'd take him if the Yankees paid for 80% of that contract.

I'd do it for 40%, especially if they included some, if not all, of what Texas is paying.

oeo
10-07-2006, 12:13 PM
Oh, come on. It would be so much fun and very entertaining.

Seriously, though. No. As great of a player as A-rod is and he is, we need to solidify our pitching.

Plus, with Boras as his agent, I don't think A-rod would sign with the Sox.

He's already under contract (until like 2010, I think), they don't have to sign him.

A-Rod would flourish here. Like TheOldRoman said, he could finally relax and be himself. The Sox would be a perfect fit for him, a team in which he can win, without all the pressures.

DickAllen72
10-07-2006, 12:49 PM
Rodriguez is ****ing excellent, but I would much rather get some kickass bullpen guys FIRST.
I wouldn't care which we got first, as long as we could get both! :cool:

CLR01
10-07-2006, 12:55 PM
We don't need A-Rod. We need pitching.

The Sox could definitely use him but his contract is bad. Giving up multiple top prospects and MLB talent to acquire that contract is worse. I don't know if I would even do it at $16 mil. @ $14 mil. sign me up.

Frater Perdurabo
10-07-2006, 01:08 PM
The Sox offense does not need another hitter. But since we are dealing in utterly baseless deeppink speculation anyway, let's analyze what the Sox could do if they acquired A-Rod and cash for Crede, Garcia and Broadway.

First, it makes Konerko or Dye expendable in a trade for pitching help. Since his salary is higher, I would then trade PK to the Angels for Scott Shields, Chone Figgins and prospects. Figgins plays left and leads off. Basically he's Pods but with slightly better speed and two years younger. Then, plug in Gload at 1B and bat him eighth. (Long-term, Sweeney could be the answer at 1B.) Then, sign the right-handed Greg Norton to be the backup 1B. Keep Pods to be the fourth OF and pinch runner, replacing Ozuna.

Lineup: Figgins, Iguchi, A-Rod, Thome, Dye, AJ, Fields, Gload, Anderson

At the plate, A-Rod is better than PK, and he's faster, too. Gload is better than Uribe. Fields is the X factor, but he is faster than Crede. This lineup is better and faster than what the Sox have now.

Bench: Stewart, Mackowiak, Cintron, Norton, Podsednik

Stewart is far better defensively than Alomar and can neutralize the Twins' and Indians' basestealing threats during the 1-2 games per week he would start. Even though Pods isn't a great CF, at least he's better than Mackowiak, who wouldn't have to back up CF. Norton provides the RH bat off the bench the Sox lacked this year.

In the field, I'll call Gload v. Konerko even. A-Rod is better than Uribe, but Fields is worse than Crede. Defensively, it's a wash.

Rotation: Garland, Buehrle, Contreras, Vazquez, McCarthy

The rotation is a wash, but the bullpen is much better.

Bullpen: Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal, Shields, Haeger, Cotts (?)

CLR01
10-07-2006, 01:10 PM
I was just looking over his contract terms at MLB4u and it seems that because he won the MVP award last year he has the option to void the deal in 2007-2009. What do you think that chances of that happening are? The ridiculous contract of his has already been a factor in trades for him do you think getting out of New York and with another playoff contender would be enough for him to void the deal and resign at a more reasonable $15-$16 million?

Frater Perdurabo
10-07-2006, 01:10 PM
A-Rod would club 50 homers, whack 30 doubles, hit .300 and swipe 20 bases if he got to play 81 games per year at the Cell.

Frater Perdurabo
10-07-2006, 01:19 PM
I know we're dealing in deeppink speculation here, but both A-Rod and Thome probably will hit their 500th homers next year. In fact, they are within eight of each other (472-464). So, if A-Rod started off hot, it might be possible (although highly unlikely) that both could hit their 500th in the same series, or even the same game.
:o:

samram
10-07-2006, 01:20 PM
I was just looking over his contract terms at MLB4u and it seems that because he won the MVP award last year he has the option to void the deal in 2007-2009. What do you think that chances of that happening are? The ridiculous contract of his has already been a factor in trades for him do you think getting out of New York and with another playoff contender would be enough for him to void the deal and resign at a more reasonable $15-$16 million?

Very interesting. I guess it depends on how miserable he is there. It really hasn't been mentioned though- you would think if that was even crossing his mind, it would get out in the media and the NY fans would be making him feel even worse.

batmanZoSo
10-07-2006, 01:52 PM
You could add Arod and Babe Ruth and you still won't win with mediocre pitching.

Frater Perdurabo
10-07-2006, 01:53 PM
You could add Arod and Babe Ruth and you still won't win with mediocre pitching.

But Ruth could help out on the mound, too! :tongue:

Standing Ovation
10-07-2006, 03:05 PM
I hope A-rod stays put in NY. Because if he does get traded, it will be for pitching. And, it's NY's lack of pitching that's keeping them from going to the WS (and possibly the ALCS this year).

dickallen15
10-07-2006, 03:15 PM
I hope A-rod stays put in NY. Because if he does get traded, it will be for pitching. And, it's NY's lack of pitching that's keeping them from going to the WS (and possibly the ALCS this year).
You're right about that, but if you give them a pitcher that is going to bomb in NY, and would have bombed in Chicago, say Mark Buerhle pitches the rest of his career like he pitched from his start in Wrigley on, he would be a steal. They have him batting 8th in the line-up. I really think they may be trying to piss him off.

Flight #24
10-07-2006, 03:50 PM
One other thing that's neglected in all of this is that ARod by himself gives you a boost in revenues. This is a guy who's highly likely to be on the short list of the best players of all-time by the time his career is finished. He's arguably the best player in the game today. He's a huge name marketing wise and a big draw, even after his struggles in NY. That's a big plus for the Sox revenue-wise, and it's a sign that they're going to continue acting like a big market.

The key is this: Can you make the other moves that you need to and not gut the pitching staff while acquiring him? Salary-wise, it's roughly a wash between what NY is paying him and the cost of say Garcia+Crede+Uribe. So JR would have to authorize raising the payroll a bit to factor in required bullpen additions, and the extra revenue from having the best player in the game on the team should help cover that.

Long term - it's a no-brainer. ARod is still young. He's going to stay the best SS and best player (or top 2-3 at least) for a while. He's seems like a lunchbucket kind of guy, which would be a fit in the Sox clubhouse. He plays great D, and runs the bases well, so he'd fit with the team style. And it would be somewhat ironic: he passed up a chance at playing for the Sox and creating a title team to chase $$$, but his "redemption" could come from joining the Sox now.

It won't happen, but it would certainly improve the team immensely. Even with the departure of Crede (and that's from a guy who's a huge Crede fan).

Jjav829
10-07-2006, 04:13 PM
Absolutely. Please get me Arod on the Sox, KW. :yup:

I've been thinking that this whole Arod thing was going to lead to an offseason trade for the past few months. Now I am near certain. He's batting 8th today! 8th! Possible the greatest player of this generation is batting 8th! If that doesn't tell you that the Yankees have soured on Arod, I don't know what does. It just makes sense for both sides to go their separate ways. The only thing I can see keeping Arod in New York is that he may not want to swallow his pride and admit this Yankee thing isn't working. Ultimately, I think he will realize that and be willing to move on to another team.

So, if Arod is traded, where could he possibly go? Well, Arod's contract eliminates about half of baseball from being able to trade for him. So cross off the Devil Rays, Twins, Royals, Indians, Athletics, Marlins, Nationals, Pirates, Brewers, Reds, and Rockies. I think the Padres and Diamondbacks would probably fit in that category as well, though they aren't as obviously out of the question as teams like the Pirates. It's unlikely that the Yankees would trade Arod to two big market teams who could afford him (the Mets and Red Sox) for obvious reasons. The Rangers and Mariners have already been there and done that, so cross them off. The Yankees probably wouldn't trade him in the division, and neither the O's nor the Blue Jays have the pitching to spare that the Yankees would want in return, so eliminate them. The Braves probably wouldn't want to take on a big contract and most likely the same can be said for the Giants. So that leaves 8 teams left that could be realistic options of varying degrees.

- Angels - Seemingly would be a favorite to land Arod. They have the payroll and a ton of young talent to spare.
- White Sox - If KW is interested, we have the resources available to land Arod.
- Cubs - You know they would love to land Arod. You have to think they would try to entice the Yankees into a deal with the principles being Arod and Prior. They certainly have the money available to spend.
- Astros - It almost makes too much sense. They desperately need another big bat in their lineup. Shortstop is an area of need. They are going to clear a lot of money if Pettitte and Clemens are gone. The only issue is whether they could put together a package that would interest the Yankees.
- Cardinals - Could you imagine a lineup with Arod and Pujols batting back-to-back? :o:The money probably wouldn't be an issue for them, but would they want to give up Reyes or Wainwright in a deal?
- Dodgers - They are paying Furcal a ton of money to play short, but they could keep Arod at 3B. They have the talent to trade. I guess the only question is whether they would want to take on his deal. My guess is that they would get involved, if nothing more than to try to drive up the price the Angels would have to pay.
- Phillies, Tigers - Both could be darkhorses. I'm sure the Phillies would love to have Arod playing 3B for them, and they could find the salary after trading Abreu and possibly moving Burrell this offseason, but do they have an offer enticing enough for the Yankees to bite? The Tigers could put together an interesting offer, and they would probably be willing to take on the salary after the year they've had. I think they could be the biggest darkhorse if Arod is put on the block this offseason.

It's going to be an interesting offseason...:cool:

Jjav829
10-07-2006, 04:17 PM
The key is this: Can you make the other moves that you need to and not gut the pitching staff while acquiring him? Salary-wise, it's roughly a wash between what NY is paying him and the cost of say Garcia+Crede+Uribe. So JR would have to authorize raising the payroll a bit to factor in required bullpen additions, and the extra revenue from having the best player in the game on the team should help cover that.

I think taking on his salary is made easier by knowing that McCarthy and Fields (two players who would be moved into prominent roles at SP and 3B respectively) would be making the minimum. Also, if Arod is acquired, one of Dye, Konerko of Thome would probably be gone within a year. It may be that KW would just let Dye ride out this cheap option year and then let him look to sign a big deal elsewhere.

I think if KW and Reinsdorf really feel it would improve the team, they can find a way to make it happen.

HotelWhiteSox
10-07-2006, 04:20 PM
Freddy, Fields, and another prospect. Another player going into HOF with a Sox cap on? Bring him home Kenny

Flight #24
10-07-2006, 04:27 PM
Nice analysis JJav. The key question is IMO this: Who has major league ready pitching to give the Yankees and still contend. That's a very short list and I can't see the Yanks moving ARod without getting that in return. Really - who is out there to be dealt that's an improvement over any of their position players? Given that constraint, Angels are one team that can play that game, Sox are another. Tigers might be a 3d. But the Cubs, Astros, Cardinals, Dodgers, Phillies don't IMO have guys that the Yanks could point to and say "they'll help us win games in '07-08". Cubs are a bit of a wildcard, but do the Yanks really want to deal for some package of Prior, Marshall, Marmol instead of say Garcia and Broadway? And would the Cubs give up Zambrano? I can't see it. Same for Astros - losing Clemens & Pettite, they're going to deal Oswalt?

And HotelWhiteSox makes a great point that will certainly be a factor. Having arguably the greatest player of this generation and one of the greatest of all time going into the HOF in a Sox cap is a big deal financially(and if he succeeds in the playoffs here and is here for a while, he would).

Whitesox4ever
10-07-2006, 04:32 PM
I believe A Rod will be joining the Sox next year for two reasons

1. KW mention to replace Uribe it would have to be a star stud player

2. According to reports out of LA the Angels are going to go all out for Manny Ramirez. I can't see them getting both Ramirez and A Rod

Jjav829
10-07-2006, 04:37 PM
2. According to reports out of LA the Angels are going to go all out for Manny Ramirez. I can't see them getting both Ramirez and A Rod

Speaking of Manny, I can't help but wonder if the Yankees and Red Sox would be willing to make an Arod-Ramirez deal. I doubt either team wants to see the player they are trading playing 19 games against them for their main rival. But....it does make sense. They could both make the salaries work. The Red Sox need a shortstop and the Yankees would love to have Manny.

Probably won't happen because I think both teams would be hesitant to trade their player to their rival, even if they are getting an equally good player in return. Just something to think about...:smile:

Flight #24
10-07-2006, 04:41 PM
Speaking of Manny, I can't help but wonder if the Yankees and Red Sox would be willing to make an Arod-Ramirez deal. I doubt either team wants to see the player they are trading playing 19 games against them for their main rival. But....it does make sense. They could both make the salaries work. The Red Sox need a shortstop and the Yankees would love to have Manny.

Probably won't happen because I think both teams would be hesitant to trade their player to their rival, even if they are getting an equally good player in return. Just something to think about...:smile:

I think the Yanks would be especially concerned about sending ARod to their rivals. If by some chance, he ever came back to lead the BoSox to a title and/or knock out the Yanks, they'd get absolutely blasted. And when you're dealing arguably the best player in the game, that's a big risk. If they send him elsewhere (Anaheim, Chicago, etc.) - then even if he beats them, it doesn't hurt as much.

Plus I stand by my thought that the Yanks want pitching rather than ANOTHER allstar hitter. And if there are any concerns about Manny's knees, do they really want to have to plug hGhiambi in at 1B to DH Manny?

Jjav829
10-07-2006, 04:47 PM
Plus I stand by my thought that the Yanks want pitching rather than ANOTHER allstar hitter. And if there are any concerns about Manny's knees, do they really want to have to plug hGhiambi in at 1B to DH Manny?

Yeah, I'm sure they would rather have pitching than another bat. Like I said, it's probably not going to happen, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Yankees and Red Sox discussed a deal like that.

As for the Cubs...

Cubs are a bit of a wildcard, but do the Yanks really want to deal for some package of Prior, Marshall, Marmol instead of say Garcia and Broadway? And would the Cubs give up Zambrano?

I think the Yankees would be very intrigued by the upside of Prior if he can stay healthy (Well, who wouldn't I guess...). He's 5 years younger than Garcia and if he can stay healthy, there is no doubt he can be a top-10 pitcher. I don't know if they would rather have the veteran pitcher who they know will be good but not great, or the younger pitcher who could be one of the greats in the game or could spend the year on the DL. But I imagine they would think long and hard if the Cubs proposed a deal with Prior being involved.

infohawk
10-07-2006, 04:49 PM
I'd rather trade a starter for young pitching/middle relief. The last thing we need to do is improve an already good offense and weaken the pitching by trading any young pitching prospects. Look what's happening to the Yankees right now. It's better to have good pitching than good hitting.

getonbckthr
10-07-2006, 04:52 PM
I remember earlier this week the Cubs saying in their press conference whether it was the Dusty one or the Mcfail one (I forgot) that "The Cubs will win!" It also appears that the Cubs have their own third base problem. Aram and Wood for Arod and cash.

Whitesox4ever
10-07-2006, 04:57 PM
I remember earlier this week the Cubs saying in their press conference whether it was the Dusty one or the Mcfail one (I forgot) that "The Cubs will win!" It also appears that the Cubs have their own third base problem. Aram and Wood for Arod and cash.


Wood is a free-agent

getonbckthr
10-07-2006, 04:58 PM
Wood is a free-agent
When did the Cubs decide on his option?

Flight #24
10-07-2006, 05:04 PM
I think the Yankees would be very intrigued by the upside of Prior if he can stay healthy (Well, who wouldn't I guess...). He's 5 years younger than Garcia and if he can stay healthy, there is no doubt he can be a top-10 pitcher. I don't know if they would rather have the veteran pitcher who they know will be good but not great, or the younger pitcher who could be one of the greats in the game or could spend the year on the DL. But I imagine they would think long and hard if the Cubs proposed a deal with Prior being involved.

I wouldn't doubt that they'd think about it, but I'd have to think they'd insist on a significant additional return. I mean if Prior is the core piece they get back and he goes on the DL again - does any GM want to be the guy who traded ARod for magic beans?

Garcia may not have the upside of Prior, but he's also not going to make them look like absolute dumbasses. Dare to dream!

Daver
10-07-2006, 05:13 PM
When did Alex Rodriguez learn to pitch out of the bullpen?

This team needs pitching, not an infielder.

I want Mags back
10-07-2006, 05:23 PM
no more Uribe at SS OH NO

October26
10-07-2006, 06:28 PM
no more Uribe at SS OH NO

Kenny Williams said some favorable things about Uribe on the Score this week. While it sounded like he was praising him, Kenny may also be shopping Uribe.

I'm hoping Kenny has a couple of trades up his sleeve this off season. Uribe for pitching prospects would free up room for A-rod. Put aside your feelings towards the Yankees and see what a GREAT player Rodriguez really is. A-rod needs to get out of New York and be appreciated for the tremendous talent that he is.

I would trade for A-rod in a heartbeat. Problem is his kujillion dollar contract and the fact that his agent is Scott Boras. Plus, the Yankees would want pitching (and they won't take Vazquez back), which means Garcia, McCarthy and who knows what other pitcher?

Can you imagine the Sox infield with Crede, Rodriguez, Iguchi and Paulie? (great defense AND offense)

RadioheadRocks
10-07-2006, 07:10 PM
There might not be anything to it yet, but, if Scott Boras, Rodriguez’s agent, whispers that Rodriguez is unhappy, teams would call. The Los Angeles Angels and the Chicago White Sox would love to add Rodriguez at $16 million a year and both have young pitchers the Yankees would want in return."


I would love to have him as our SS next year...

Yeah, like Kenny Williams would give Scott Boras the time of day... :rolleyes:

NEXT...

Palehose13
10-07-2006, 07:44 PM
I don't se why some assume that getting Arod means that KW wouldn't get pitching too. If you have the opportunity to get a guy the caliber of Arod and at a fair price, IMO, you do it.

caulfield12
10-07-2006, 08:04 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?slug=fd7e699c6c8c41b094dec2f5f1c629c2.yankee s_tigers_baseball_mips115&prov=ap

Last picture of A-Rod with the Yankees.

DickAllen72
10-07-2006, 08:11 PM
I don't se why some assume that getting Arod means that KW wouldn't get pitching too. If you have the opportunity to get a guy the caliber of Arod and at a fair price, IMO, you do it.

Thank you.

HotelWhiteSox
10-07-2006, 08:22 PM
I don't se why some assume that getting Arod means that KW wouldn't get pitching too. If you have the opportunity to get a guy the caliber of Arod and at a fair price, IMO, you do it.

Exactly, not to mention a trade would mean parting with one SP, of which we have 6, so the rotation would still be set. The only other thing would be a couple tweaks to the bullpen and the team is set

samram
10-07-2006, 08:53 PM
Yeah, like Kenny Williams would give Scott Boras the time of day... :rolleyes:

NEXT...

Does Scott Boras run the Yankees now? ARod isn't a free agent as of right now.

RadioheadRocks
10-07-2006, 09:25 PM
Does Scott Boras run the Yankees now? ARod isn't a free agent as of right now.

Nope, but knowing the utter contempt Williams has for Boras does it really matter?

shoelessshaun27!
10-07-2006, 09:55 PM
i would like him at SS but not at 3rd, CREDE is the man.

gobears1987
10-08-2006, 12:53 AM
He has a career .305/.393/.534 line in the postseason. But hey, he's not clutch. I'd take him everday of the week.
Well he is an improvement over Uribe. That is good enough for me. There is no player on the roster I want to dump more than Juan "watch me swing for the fences and try one handed catches" Uribe.

Domeshot17
10-08-2006, 01:55 AM
You have to do this and do it in a heart beat.

While crede is a fan favorite, his trade value is through the roof right now. Who knows if he has another good season in him. His back is always a liability, and while he has always been a magician at 3rd, I have not heard many bad things about Fields there.

Fields by all accounts should be good. and if he isnt? then you go trade for a 3b.

Arod may be a punk, but you get him out of the microscope of new york, and the guy will win the AL MVP. Theres a HUGE difference between Jay Mariotti and Joe Cowley and the other untalented chicago writers talking about him, and sports illustrated.

I MEAN COMMON, THE GUY, UP UNTIL THIS YEAR, HAS BATTLED 1 PERSON (Pujols) FOR THE BEST HITTER IN THE GAME SLOT (I dont count bonds, he cheats). You move him back to his natural position, where he is comfortable, with a good envoirment, and he will blow up.

Craig Grebeck
10-08-2006, 06:46 AM
Crede is the type of third baseman they want. He's got a great glove, and that will make them overvalue him. They'd be willing to give Joe 4 years at 36 million for an extension. Get it done KW!

RedHeadPaleHoser
10-08-2006, 08:07 AM
We don't need A-Rod. We need pitching.

No thanks. Let him rot in the Big Apple. Too ****ing bad if you're "unhappy". Take your $252M contract and do your goddamn job. Whiner.

We need pitching, not his headcase in Chicago.

samram
10-08-2006, 08:39 AM
You have to do this and do it in a heart beat.

While crede is a fan favorite, his trade value is through the roof right now. Who knows if he has another good season in him. His back is always a liability, and while he has always been a magician at 3rd, I have not heard many bad things about Fields there.

Fields by all accounts should be good. and if he isnt? then you go trade for a 3b.

Arod may be a punk, but you get him out of the microscope of new york, and the guy will win the AL MVP. Theres a HUGE difference between Jay Mariotti and Joe Cowley and the other untalented chicago writers talking about him, and sports illustrated.

I MEAN COMMON, THE GUY, UP UNTIL THIS YEAR, HAS BATTLED 1 PERSON (Pujols) FOR THE BEST HITTER IN THE GAME SLOT (I dont count bonds, he cheats). You move him back to his natural position, where he is comfortable, with a good envoirment, and he will blow up.

Yep. Hell, he won an MVP award in NY, despite being miserable. The guy is a fantastic player and if you can get him, you get him. And you're right about the press. The Chicago media is a bunch of lambs compared to the New York writers.

And there's no reason you can't bolster the bullpen and trade for Arod, assuming payroll is allowed to increase.

FedEx227
10-08-2006, 07:17 PM
i would like him at SS but not at 3rd, CREDE is the man.

Don't worry, A-Rod is a SS, if it wasn't for the greatest player ever being selfish, A-Rod would be playing everyday SS for the Yankees. He was a gold-glove SS before he went to the Yankees and I doubt he completely forgot how to play the position.

If a man can hit 35 home runs, drive in 121 RBIs and have a .392 OBP in an off-year count me in.

However as people said, is he really worth giving up that many prospects and potential pitching? Maybe the Yankees are dumb enough to remember they had Javier Vazquez.

Javy + Fields + Uribe for A-Rod and the Yanks pay half. I like it!

thomas35forever
10-08-2006, 07:29 PM
Why would we be willing to pay him $27 million a year when we're already paying Paulie $15 million a year? No way. We don't need to spend that much.

kidmccarthy
10-08-2006, 07:32 PM
No matter how you slice it, I think ARod and Fields > Crede and Uribe.

Crede is awesome. But one season does not make a superstar. ARod is a superstar. As noted here previously, he will hit at least 45 HR and bat over 300 in the cell. Crede will never hit over 40, ever. ARod is a great shortstop, Uribe had a 269 OBP. That is unnacceptable. Crede will get at least 5-6 million this season in arbitration, and 6-8 next year. Then we would need to do a 4 yr. / 40 mil. type deal (at least) with Boras as his agent. So we are talking about 9-10 mill next year for Crede/Uribe, and about 16 for ARod/Fields. Fields adds speed, heck, ARod is somewhat quick and always hustles. Fields seems adequate at third, but SS will be Gold Glove Caliber with ARod. If Fields struggles a bit, he will be protected by ARod in the field, and can bat 8th or 9th. If he really scuffles, we have Rob Mack who is a solid 3rd baseman, Ozzie just forgets that. I really dont think Fields would put up worse than 240, 269 OPB with around 20 homers and 60 RBI. Thats about what we got from Uribe this year. ARod will crush the ball in the cell and will want to prove to everyone that New York was a fluke, and he is one of the best. Then we will have a bonafide superstar, with alot of talent in the infield, and our payroll will only increase about 7 mill for the first two years. Fields will get league min. for several years, and Crede is due a large salary increase. Really we are talking equal money in two years. Oh, and Crede has back issues. Sorry for all this, but i just cant see how Freddy and Crede wont be enough to get this done. We can buy a leadoff hitter in FA, and we are set. Two relievers would be our only need then. Hot dang, get it done Kenny!

shoelessshaun27!
10-08-2006, 09:27 PM
I remember so many years ago when I first saw A-rod on the Rangers at The Cell. It was my first Sox game. Sox lost. :( But I remeber every time A-rod came up to bat, the crowd would cheer "OVER-RATED". After all those years that is still what he is. He would make a nice shortstop for us though. Way better than Juan.

fquaye149
10-08-2006, 09:51 PM
I remember so many years ago when I first saw A-rod on the Rangers at The Cell. It was my first Sox game. Sox lost. :( But I remeber every time A-rod came up to bat, the crowd would cheer "OVER-RATED". After all those years that is still what he is. He would make a nice shortstop for us though. Way better than Juan.

Overrated how? Overpaid? Probably. Best SS ever? Nah, that would probably be Wagner.

But he is the best SS you will ever see as long as you live, unless some superhuman freak comes along. He's also one of the 10 best hitters of my lifetime (1983-present) among people like Griffey, Piazza, Frank, Schmidt, Boggs, Gwynn, Puckett, Manny, and so on

fquaye149
10-08-2006, 09:52 PM
Why would we be willing to pay him $27 million a year when we're already paying Paulie $15 million a year? No way. We don't need to spend that much.

The Yankees are not paying 27 million. Texas is paying a sizeable chunk. Meanwhile, NYY would probably eat even more of his contract depending on the talent we sent. We would not pay 27 million.

Chips
10-08-2006, 09:53 PM
Overrated how? Overpaid? Probably. Best SS ever? Nah, that would probably be Wagner.

But he is the best SS you will ever see as long as you live, unless some superhuman freak comes along. He's also one of the 10 best hitters of my lifetime (1983-present) among people like Griffey, Piazza, Frank, Schmidt, Boggs, Gwynn, Puckett, Manny, and so on

Exactly, he is perhaps the best hitter in baseball right now with Pujols. No way he is overrated.

Chips
10-08-2006, 09:55 PM
Why would we be willing to pay him $27 million a year when we're already paying Paulie $15 million a year? No way. We don't need to spend that much.

PK is getting 12 million a year, if I am not mistaken.

thomas35forever
10-08-2006, 10:06 PM
PK is getting 12 million a year, if I am not mistaken.
You're right. My mistake. 12 x 5 = 60

CLR01
10-08-2006, 10:48 PM
The Yankees are not paying 27 million. Texas is paying a sizeable chunk. Meanwhile, NYY would probably eat even more of his contract depending on the talent we sent. We would not pay 27 million.


His remaining contract:

2007 $27 mil base - $7 mil from Texas= 20 mil $4mil of which is differed.
2008 $27 mil - $8 mil FT = $19 mil $3 mil differed
2009 $32 mil - $7 mil FT = $25 mil $3 mil differed
2010 $37 mil - $6 mil FT = $31 mil $3 mil differed

Gregory Pratt
10-08-2006, 11:18 PM
I've got no issue giving up Konerko and a pitcher, Garcia, for A-Rod, like I don't have an issue giving up Crede and Garcia for A-Rod. (Garcia is my mention because he has a history of dominating NY in the playoffs, and Yankees management likes players that they've seen do well in the playoffs; the story goes that Kenny is shopping Garcia; and, his strong September makes him attractive, and his history, too).

I wouldn't mind giving up ANY of our offensive players for A-Rod, provided they pay a good deal of his contract.

areilly
10-08-2006, 11:29 PM
No thanks. Let him rot in the Big Apple. Too ****ing bad if you're "unhappy". Take your $252M contract and do your goddamn job. Whiner.

We need pitching, not his headcase in Chicago.


We need more reliable pitching.

We need a more consistent leadoff hitter.

We need better offense from our shortstop.

We need better baserunning.

Rodriguez, of Gold Glove and 40/40 fame, nails two of those.

Get him out of New York - Chicago, LA, wherever - and I promise you he shines again. New York has killed so many players, and not just in baseball.

To say that having 50,000 people showing up at your job every day to tell you how much they hate you, while having two of the most widely-read papers in the world devote inch after inch of space to writing up how much you suck, and also having the TV and talk radio vultures calling for your head because you're only getting a hit 28 out of 100 times at bat...to say all of that should never be too much for a man to take is absolutely ridiculous.

I don't care how much he makes, New York has not been good for the guy or his career, and I would welcome him here. Far be it from me to hate a player because someone in Texas decided to overpay him.

Hate a player because he disrespects a city or a team's fans. Hate a player because he's lousy to his wife and kids. But to hate a player because he's marketable? Because he's not "tough" enough to handle getting crucified by millions of people on a daily basis? That's just petty.

Norberto7
10-08-2006, 11:30 PM
His remaining contract:

2007 $27 mil base - $7 mil from Texas= 20 mil $4mil of which is differed.
2008 $27 mil - $8 mil FT = $19 mil $3 mil differed
2009 $32 mil - $7 mil FT = $25 mil $3 mil differed
2010 $37 mil - $6 mil FT = $31 mil $3 mil differed

That's nice of the Astros to pitch in and help pay for A-Rod, but 31 million dollars....****....

I still wouldn't be all that disappointed if the move were to happen, though.

BRDSR
10-08-2006, 11:41 PM
Crede, Uribe, Garcia for Arod and propect!

This was only the 7th post in an 80 post thread, so I'm sure this has already been said, but...what on God's green earth are the Yankees going to do with Juan Uribe?

CLR01
10-08-2006, 11:42 PM
That's nice of the Astros to pitch in and help pay for A-Rod, but 31 million dollars....****....

I still wouldn't be all that disappointed if the move were to happen, though.


Who said anything about the Astros? :redneck

A. Cavatica
10-08-2006, 11:53 PM
A-Rod would be an upgrade over Uribe. He's not enough of an upgrade over Crede to make me want him. Remember, he's been surrounded by big-time talent before, and he's played out of NYC before, and his teams have always underachieved.

We have to move a starter in any trade this big. The Yankees have already tried and given up on Contreras and Vazquez. So they'd have to take Buehrle or Garcia, and I figure they'd hold out for Buehrle.

We're not done; we have to trade another big salary. Obviously NY would want Crede, and we have Fields who's close to ready (with Mackowiak/Uribe/Cintron/Ozuna available), so that's plausible. But would you give up Buehrle and Crede for A-Rod? I wouldn't. The Yankees would need to add someone cheap & good. Likewise, I wouldn't trade Garcia and Konerko without getting someone cheap & good back.

Beautox
10-09-2006, 12:11 AM
A-Rod would be an upgrade over Uribe. He's not enough of an upgrade over Crede to make me want him. Remember, he's been surrounded by big-time talent before, and he's played out of NYC before, and his teams have always underachieved.

We have to move a starter in any trade this big. The Yankees have already tried and given up on Contreras and Vazquez. So they'd have to take Buehrle or Garcia, and I figure they'd hold out for Buehrle.

We're not done; we have to trade another big salary. Obviously NY would want Crede, and we have Fields who's close to ready (with Mackowiak/Uribe/Cintron/Ozuna available), so that's plausible. But would you give up Buehrle and Crede for A-Rod? I wouldn't. The Yankees would need to add someone cheap & good. Likewise, I wouldn't trade Garcia and Konerko without getting someone cheap & good back.

I would deal Crede (yes everyone loves Joe) but hes got back issues, is hesitant about surgery this offseason and boras his agent, now i realize the same applies for arod but boras is a nonfactor till after 2010. Crede along with MB(if he won't re up) or Garcia, with the yankees sending us Melky Cabera & Cox/Proctor.

When texas traded him to new york they only got Soriano and Joaquin Arias back and they still had to pay a ton of money to the yankees.

I would leave Arod at 3B for '07 and from '08 onward move him back to SS, and in '08 after fields gets another year of seasoning start him at 3B.

here is more about arods contract (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/alex-rodriguez_01.html).

JB98
10-09-2006, 12:19 AM
KW should call the Yankees and find out what it would take. A-Rod is one of the best players I've ever seen. I don't care what the tabloids think of him. The price to get him would be high, but if it's right, you make the move.

fquaye149
10-09-2006, 12:42 AM
A-Rod would be an upgrade over Uribe. He's not enough of an upgrade over Crede to make me want him. Remember, he's been surrounded by big-time talent before, and he's played out of NYC before, and his teams have always underachieved.


Only a moron who's about to get fired (ahem, Joe Torre) would put A-Rod (the best SS in baseball) at 3B.

If we got A-Rod, and if we had to give up Crede to replace him, we'd be replacing Crede with FIELDS and uribe with A-Rod.

I think most people here will not be slashing their wrists to give Josh Fields a place to play ball if it means the insane upgrade of A-Rod over Uribe.

I mean, I love Crede as much as the next guy (besides Shoota of course), but COME ON.

fquaye149
10-09-2006, 12:45 AM
always underachieved.


And furthermore, the Yankees have achieved exactly how I've expected them to since A-Rod came. What year since A-Rod's been in NYC have the yankees had the best pitchers in the AL East, much less the AL?

None...yeah they've had some big names like Johnson, Pettite, Clemens, and Mussina, but never the best pitching.

And that a-list "talent" he's surrounded with? Once again, past their prime former superstars whose name Steinbrenner has fallen in love with (a la Gary Sheffield, who Steinbrenner forced Cashman to sign instead of a little known rightfielder by the name of Vladimir Guerrerro).

FarWestChicago
10-09-2006, 06:49 AM
Hate a player because he disrespects a city or a team's fans.:payrod

That's exactly what I did to Seattle when I stiffed them and went to Texas, hahahahaha!!

Norberto7
10-09-2006, 08:31 AM
I am surprised by the all people who would so easily turn away two hundred and fifty-two million dollars if it was offered to them...and then cast scorn upon the people who make it.

You can have your reasons for disliking Rodriguez, but please, money should not be one of them. Unless you would never think about taking a different job because it paid you more money. Yeah, it is a bigger scale, and he's not fighting to put food on the table...so what?

Tell me why you would never change jobs for more money, tell me what Rodriguez owed to the fans of Seattle so much more so than any other free agent who has looked for a sweeter deal elsewhere, and maybe I'll understand why you dislike A-Rod for his money. Until then, it just seems like pettiness to me.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-09-2006, 09:04 AM
A-Rod would be an upgrade over Uribe or Crede. But it is a matter of cost. How much do you pay for productivity?

A-Rod hit 35 homers, drove in 121 runs, had 90 BB, 139 SO, batted .290, .392 OBP, and .523 slugging.

Crede hit 30 homers, drove in 94 runs, had 28 BB, 58 SO, batted .283, .323 OBP, .506 slugging.

The difference is not that great considering A-Rod hit higher in the order than Crede with a potent lineup in front of him.

In 2006, Crede earned $2.675-million and A-Rod $25-million ($16-million from Yankees). You can argue that the difference between the two is not enough to pay any more than a straight up swap of Crede for A-Rod.

Let's say Crede doubles his salary in 2007 to $5-million, that would be a $11-million difference the Sox would have to pick up. The Yankees would benefit from a salary dump, freeing up money (not that they need it) to get other players while hamstringing the Sox from obtaining any free agents or any other high-priced talent through other trades.

The only way the Sox could make it work is to have the Yankees pay a big portion of the difference in salaries or to take a high-priced player along with Crede, such as Garcia or Vazquez. Giving them Garcia, who won 17 games, would make it a lopsided trade in favor of the Yankees. Making them take Vazquez would be great. I would love that.

In any event, I would want a young, inexpensive arm, like Brian Bruney, to be obtained in such a trade if it were to be worked out.

FarWestChicago
10-09-2006, 09:05 AM
Tell me why you would never change jobs for more money, tell me what Rodriguez owed to the fans of Seattle so much more so than any other free agent who has looked for a sweeter deal elsewhere, and maybe I'll understand why you dislike A-Rod for his money. Until then, it just seems like pettiness to me.I have turned down jobs for more money. In fact, I recently took a job for less money. Once you have enough to get by, there is more to life than money. For example, I suspect Pay-rod would have been happier if he had taken the $18 or so mill Seattle was throwing his way and avoided this current mess. :smile:

D. TODD
10-09-2006, 09:09 AM
I would LOVE A-Rod on the southside. Don't mortage the farm to get him though, and that's probaly what it will take.

itsnotrequired
10-09-2006, 09:09 AM
I am surprised by the all people who would so easily turn away two hundred and fifty-two million dollars if it was offered to them...and then cast scorn upon the people who make it.

You can have your reasons for disliking Rodriguez, but please, money should not be one of them. Unless you would never think about taking a different job because it paid you more money. Yeah, it is a bigger scale, and he's not fighting to put food on the table...so what?

Tell me why you would never change jobs for more money, tell me what Rodriguez owed to the fans of Seattle so much more so than any other free agent who has looked for a sweeter deal elsewhere, and maybe I'll understand why you dislike A-Rod for his money. Until then, it just seems like pettiness to me.

:farmer

"Its all about the money, Chris Singleton. Even when they say it isn't, it is."

fquaye149
10-09-2006, 09:16 AM
:farmer

"Its all about the money, Chris Singleton. Even when they say it isn't, it is."
Bat manufacturers=A-Rod?

Flight #24
10-09-2006, 09:42 AM
I have turned down jobs for more money. In fact, I recently took a job for less money. Once you have enough to get by, there is more to life than money. For example, I suspect Pay-rod would have been happier if he had taken the $18 or so mill Seattle was throwing his way and avoided this current mess. :smile:

Actually, I wonder how much he thinks about not stepping in and making Boras let him listen to the Sox pitch. IIRC, they were offering about $16 or so/yr, and a team with ARod, Frank, Ventura.......:drool:

samram
10-09-2006, 09:49 AM
Actually, I wonder how much he thinks about not stepping in and making Boras let him listen to the Sox pitch. IIRC, they were offering about $16 or so/yr, and a team with ARod, Frank, Ventura.......:drool:

I think that was after 2000, so it would have been Frank, Arod, Maggs, CLee, PK- not bad at all.

MarySwiss
10-09-2006, 09:56 AM
I have turned down jobs for more money. In fact, I recently took a job for less money. Once you have enough to get by, there is more to life than money. For example, I suspect Pay-rod would have been happier if he had taken the $18 or so mill Seattle was throwing his way and avoided this current mess. :smile:
Agree. I work at home and make on average about two-thirds what I would command working for a publishing company. There are trade offs, such as happiness.

rdwj
10-09-2006, 10:09 AM
A-Rod would be a great fit here and a SERIOUS upgrade. KW has made pleanty of deals where he got other teams to pick up a nice percentage of the tab, why not here? And just because you address one problem doesn't mean the bullpen is ignored! This isn't a one or the other situation.

We are in the catbird seat here - we actually have TOO MANY starting pitchers. I wouldn'd be suprised if KW pulled a rabbit out of his hat and landed A-Rod.

Man, that move would TOTALLY eliminate the lag in fan support that's almost a given in 07. A big move like this might even increase interest.

areilly
10-09-2006, 10:30 AM
I have turned down jobs for more money. In fact, I recently took a job for less money. Once you have enough to get by, there is more to life than money. For example, I suspect Pay-rod would have been happier if he had taken the $18 or so mill Seattle was throwing his way and avoided this current mess. :smile:


A $7 million per year pay differential...every year he plays, that's another generation of his family that doesn't have to work, ever, in addition to the ridiculous kind of personal empire you could create on the $18 mil Seattle would've given him. I personally would've done it.

I'm sure we've all made career moves we regret, just like A-Rod surely has. So he learns and moves on. He's just a person. It's just a line of work.

The Sox have taken on so-called head cases and rejects before, and that didn't seem to work out too badly. If Rodriguez comes up and KW can give the Yankees what they want without breaking the bank or hurting the team, there is absolutely no reason I can see not to go through with it.

FarWestChicago
10-09-2006, 10:34 AM
...every year he plays, that's another generation of his family that doesn't have to work, ever...Do you have any idea what kind of crap you would turn out for kids and subsequent generations if they didn't "have to work, ever"? Try Paris Hilton. :o:

itsnotrequired
10-09-2006, 10:37 AM
Do you have any idea what kind of crap you would turn out for kids and subsequent generations if they didn't "have to work, ever"? Try Paris Hilton. :o:

What about Bruce Wayne?

:redneck

Flight #24
10-09-2006, 10:39 AM
His remaining contract:

2007 $27 mil base - $7 mil from Texas= 20 mil $4mil of which is differed.
2008 $27 mil - $8 mil FT = $19 mil $3 mil differed
2009 $32 mil - $7 mil FT = $25 mil $3 mil differed
2010 $37 mil - $6 mil FT = $31 mil $3 mil differed

Interesting, because just about every single report that I've seen either from when he was traded to the Yanks or now talks about him being a $16M/yr player, that the Yanks were responsible for $112M from 2004-2010.

Perhaps they're ignoring the following clause (from MLB4U.com):
he has a guaranteed salary increase for 2009 and 2010 by the higher of the following: 5M or 1M greater than average annual value of the position player w/ highest annual average salary

I wonder if maybe that was waived or there's some clause by which it can be cancelled by the team?

wdelaney72
10-09-2006, 10:40 AM
I would be interested in bringing him in, but it all depends on at what cost. He's an obvious upgrade, but his salary would require the sacrifice of another high priced player, and that may or not be a good decision. I think a lot of this depends on the real Joe Crede situation... his health and whether or not he gets a contract extension this off-season.

areilly
10-09-2006, 11:08 AM
This was only the 7th post in an 80 post thread, so I'm sure this has already been said, but...what on God's green earth are the Yankees going to do with Juan Uribe?

Most likely flip him to another team.

Flight #24
10-09-2006, 11:40 AM
Most likely flip him to another team.

They could play him at 3B, or make him a bench player. But most likely, they wouldn't even want him and KW would have to engineer another trade in which he gives up Uribe for either low-level prospects, or to a team that's retooling in exchange for a veteran of similar salary (*Cough cough* Vizquel *Cough cough*)

AZChiSoxFan
10-09-2006, 11:44 AM
I am surprised by the all people who would so easily turn away two hundred and fifty-two million dollars if it was offered to them...and then cast scorn upon the people who make it.

You can have your reasons for disliking Rodriguez, but please, money should not be one of them. Unless you would never think about taking a different job because it paid you more money. Yeah, it is a bigger scale, and he's not fighting to put food on the table...so what?

Tell me why you would never change jobs for more money, tell me what Rodriguez owed to the fans of Seattle so much more so than any other free agent who has looked for a sweeter deal elsewhere, and maybe I'll understand why you dislike A-Rod for his money. Until then, it just seems like pettiness to me.

I would have respected A-Rod a lot more if, when we was a FA, he would have just come out and said "I'm going to the team that offers me the most money." I have zero problem with that. Knock yourself out. However, he and Boras stated that a big factor would be going to a team that had a chance to win and he didn't do that.

Having said that, count me in as someone who would like to see KW bring him to the south side.

SoxxoS
10-09-2006, 11:57 AM
Frank Thomas wasn't clutch either in the playoffs... that ended up being false. It's such a small sample size that it's fairly unfair, IMO.

AROD would be more than a fantastic addition. You take the best player in baseball and you put a smile on yourself. A Crede/Rodriguez left side would be unreal.

He can hit. He can field. He is fast. He is a good guy off the field. He would put fannies in seats. He would THRIVE in Chicago.

dickallen15
10-09-2006, 12:11 PM
I would have respected A-Rod a lot more if, when we was a FA, he would have just come out and said "I'm going to the team that offers me the most money." I have zero problem with that. Knock yourself out. However, he and Boras stated that a big factor would be going to a team that had a chance to win and he didn't do that.

Having said that, count me in as someone who would like to see KW bring him to the south side.
If someone offered you $75-100 million more than anyone else, wouldn't you take it? And if you did, would you lose respect for yourself? ARod did what any human being would have done, he signed that bloated contract, and I'm sure he was assured the Rangers were going to try to win. He restructured his bloated contract as much as the union would allow to go to the Yankees to try and win. I personally think he's a high character guy, who wants to be one of the guys in NY but for some reason, he hasn't been allowed. I 'm absolutely positive he would be a monster for any other team in MLB. I would love for the Sox to have him, but the pitching has to be the #1 priority.

SoxEd
10-09-2006, 12:40 PM
Hands up everyone who wants to pick up PayRod's contract:

http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/tumbleweed.gif


Now hands up everyone who thinks Steinbrenner will eat PayRod's contract and ship him to a potential rival for the proverbial bag o' balls:

http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/tumbleweed.gif

Man, every year I forget how the lack of Baseball in the offseason reduces the quality of the rumours.

Every. Freakin'. Year.

:help:

CLR01
10-09-2006, 12:45 PM
Interesting, because just about every single report that I've seen either from when he was traded to the Yanks or now talks about him being a $16M/yr player, that the Yanks were responsible for $112M from 2004-2010.

Perhaps they're ignoring the following clause (from MLB4U.com):


I wonder if maybe that was waived or there's some clause by which it can be cancelled by the team?


It may have been voided, I really haven't heard much about it since he was traded, but I doubt the union would have allowed that.

I would think, that if it was voided, MLB4U would have updated the details. They seem to be on top of things like that. Then again I would also think that his base salary for 2009 and 2010 would show the raise but I guess the actual amount of the raise is still unknown.

Sox-o-matic
10-09-2006, 12:47 PM
Hands up everyone who wants to pick up PayRod's contract:

http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/tumbleweed.gif


Now hands up everyone who thinks Steinbrenner will eat PayRod's contract and ship him to a potential rival for the proverbial bag o' balls:

http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/tumbleweed.gif

Man, every year I forget how the lack of Baseball in the offseason reduces the quality of the rumours.

Every. Freakin'. Year.

:help:

Get used to it because it won't be long before everyone is pining for Manny Ramirez too.

If the Sox got ARod they wouldn't be able to pay for a pitching staff, and that is the last thing I want to see. Give me a struggling Garcia/Buehrle/Vazquez/Contreras any day over the likes of Cory Lidle, Tony Armas Jr, or whoever else KW would have to replace these guys with in order to afford him.

Scottzilla
10-09-2006, 01:12 PM
If we get ARod does that mean we cant afford Ichiro?? :(:

Sox-o-matic
10-09-2006, 01:25 PM
If we get ARod does that mean we cant afford Ichiro?? :(:

Sure they could, if the Sox wanted to have Mark Buehrle work in Public Relations between starts, Jim Thome sell hotdogs instead of sitting on the bench, make Bobby Jenks the travel coordinator, give Paulie a shot at as a manger, and put Ozzie back at SS with Man Soo Lee behind the plate.

KW would have to take creativity to a level that even Veeck couldn't touch.

Soxfest
10-09-2006, 01:26 PM
I would love A-Rod at SS and Sox have talent to trade to do it!:smile:

Soxfest
10-09-2006, 01:29 PM
[quote=Whitesox4ever;1376731]There might not be anything to it yet, but, if Scott Boras, Rodriguez’s agent, whispers that Rodriguez is unhappy, teams would call. The Los Angeles Angels and the Chicago White Sox would love to add Rodriguez at $16 million a year and both have young pitchers the Yankees would want in return."


Yankees are only paying 9 mil a yr of the contract.

CLR01
10-09-2006, 01:29 PM
Sure they could, if the Sox wanted to have Mark Buehrle work in Public Relations between starts, Jim Thome sell hotdogs instead of sitting on the bench, make Bobby Jenks the travel coordinator, give Paulie a shot at as a manger, and put Ozzie back at SS with Man Soo Lee behind the plate.

KW would have to take creativity to a level that even Veeck couldn't touch.


Maybe A-Rod will pay Ichiro's salary? :dunno:

CLR01
10-09-2006, 01:30 PM
There might not be anything to it yet, but, if Scott Boras, Rodriguez’s agent, whispers that Rodriguez is unhappy, teams would call. The Los Angeles Angels and the Chicago White Sox would love to add Rodriguez at $16 million a year and both have young pitchers the Yankees would want in return."


Yankees are only paying 9 mil a yr of the contract.


You're getting that info from where?


From MLB4u

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1378410&postcount=77

itsnotrequired
10-09-2006, 01:37 PM
[quote=Whitesox4ever;1376731]There might not be anything to it yet, but, if Scott Boras, Rodriguez’s agent, whispers that Rodriguez is unhappy, teams would call. The Los Angeles Angels and the Chicago White Sox would love to add Rodriguez at $16 million a year and both have young pitchers the Yankees would want in return."


Yankees are only paying 9 mil a yr of the contract.

I think you have it backwards. Others are paying $9 million of his contract. The Yankees are paying $16 million. He is still getting the full $25 million. Well, technically not since he defered a bunch of his salary to 2011-2020. Texas is still on the hook for defered money all the way through 2025.

That contract isn't easy to figure out, that's for sure.

RedHeadPaleHoser
10-09-2006, 01:48 PM
What about Bruce Wayne?

:redneck

Wait a minute - Bruce worked. He bought all the shares of his company back through various trusts, and such...and left Lucious Fox to run it. Building a Batcave takes time.

We need to remember something: his contract was issued by Texas, on the success he had and expected to have. He's not unsuccessful in NY, but he's not the world's greatest player either(i.e., Jordan in basketball). That's huge bank to eat for someone who can't get out of his own way in postseason play.

AZChiSoxFan
10-09-2006, 02:05 PM
If someone offered you $75-100 million more than anyone else, wouldn't you take it? And if you did, would you lose respect for yourself? ARod did what any human being would have done, he signed that bloated contract, and I'm sure he was assured the Rangers were going to try to win. He restructured his bloated contract as much as the union would allow to go to the Yankees to try and win. I personally think he's a high character guy, who wants to be one of the guys in NY but for some reason, he hasn't been allowed. I 'm absolutely positive he would be a monster for any other team in MLB. I would love for the Sox to have him, but the pitching has to be the #1 priority.

I think you missed my point. AS STATED PREVIOUSLY, I have no problem with players getting as much money as they can. Just come out and say it though. I can't stand the phoney baloney garbage about "going to a winning team is my first priority, blah, blah, blah." Everyone knew the Rangers were a joke.

Scottzilla
10-09-2006, 02:12 PM
Wait a minute - Bruce worked. He bought all the shares of his company back through various trusts, and such...and left Lucious Fox to run it. Building a Batcave takes time.

We need to remember something: his contract was issued by Texas, on the success he had and expected to have. He's not unsuccessful in NY, but he's not the world's greatest player either(i.e., Jordan in basketball). That's huge bank to eat for someone who can't get out of his own way in postseason play.

ahh but unfortunately bruce wayne is fictional and paris hilton is all too real.

White Sox Randy
10-09-2006, 02:17 PM
We don't need A-Rod. We need pitching.


Repeat. Then, repeat again and again.

Besides, he won't be traded anyway.

Clarkdog
10-09-2006, 04:30 PM
I think the only way A-Rod comes to Chicago is by dealing a combination of two of the following players:

Garcia, MacCarthy, Konerko, and Crede.

To me the best deal for the Sox ships Konerko and Garcia or MacCarthy. This scenario produces fewer holes for the Sox than anywhere else. Gload can start at 1B batting down in the order, he has a better glove than Konerko and is a contact hitter. That also allows for only one big hole in the lineup with Anderson since now you wouldn't have Uribe's all-or-nothing bat hitting eight. The Yankees have a big hole at first right now, as well as at third if A-Rod is dealt.

Now on Garcia or MacCarthy, if the Yankees want Garcia then I think the deal is straight up. A-Rod for Konerko and Garcia. That way you get A-Rod and the $16MM in salary and ship Konerko and Garcia at $21 MM combined. You then deal Uribe for a front end bullpen arm, and look to sign one other through free agency with the $5MM you just freed up in salary.

If the Yankees want MacCarthy, then I think the Sox should get either salary relief or front-end bull pen help thrown in. Scott Proctor may be wishful thinking. Adding Fields to the deal as future third base help could get it done, but then the Sox will be saying to the world (and Scott Boras) that they are committed to Joe Crede.

But it really comes down to how much the Sox love Konerko. He's the key player the Sox should consider dealing in getting A-Rod. If they really want him.

Soxfanspcu11
10-09-2006, 04:31 PM
I certainly hope I don't have to see A-Rod in a Sox uniform. Ever.


Agreed 110%!!! AROD in a Sox uniform is nothing but trouble. I VOTE NO!

HotelWhiteSox
10-10-2006, 12:58 PM
After the Torre presser, ESPN had some more Yankee discussion afterwords, Buster Olney was talking about ARod prospected deals, and he singled out the Sox and Buehrle/Fields for Rodriguez and part of salary. Doesn't seem realistic to me though, they'd probably focus on last year stats. I think Freddy fits in more.


Yeah we need pitching, but it is not likely the rotation will see a new pitchers, probably will just drop one, so if we are going to trade one away anyways...Crede/Fields can go to replace the Yankee hole and the one left here is at third (maybe Fields if Boras is an issue), while Rodriguez goes to short. Probabaly at least another prospect too. Bench can be taken care of internally/is fine, rotation is set, then add 1 or 2 bullpen arms (If Uribe or Podsednik goes, you can get those in return), hello World Series.

Paulwny
10-10-2006, 01:10 PM
[quote=HotelWhiteSox;1379981]After the Torre presser, ESPN had some more Yankee discussion afterwords, Buster Olney was talking about ARod prospected deals, and he singled out the Sox and Buehrle/Fields for Rodriguez and part of salary. Doesn't seem realistic to me though, they'd probably focus on last year stats. I think Freddy fits in more.
/quote]


With the short rf porch NY may be looking for a lefty pitcher. Garcia being a fly ball pitcher may have big problems with left handed hitters at yankee stadium.

Flight #24
10-10-2006, 01:34 PM
After the Torre presser, ESPN had some more Yankee discussion afterwords, Buster Olney was talking about ARod prospected deals, and he singled out the Sox and Buehrle/Fields for Rodriguez and part of salary. Doesn't seem realistic to me though, they'd probably focus on last year stats. I think Freddy fits in more.



Interesting thought. Buehrle probably has a bigger name than Garcia, which could be good for trade value. And he's the one who's the most difficult to gauge - no injury/tired arm issues, but just fell off the table in the 2d half. Why? THis is IMO the biggest issue for the Sox this offseason - if you trade Garcia/Vazquez and get 2d half Mark again - it's 5th starter roulette. But if you trade him and he's back to pre-06 Mark :(: . I suppose if he's the primary bait for ARod, one could always console oneself with having a top 2 player and likely top 10-20 of all time when he retires.

Plus, I could see Garcia being easier to resign than Mark what with the Ozzie factor & him living in Chicago with a baby & all.

Only problem would be affording Crede AND Arod. Now if you can get Yank to chip in $$$ along with the Rangers $$$, then it's pretty attractive.

But if NY wants Buehrle that bad, just say "OK, you get Buehrle, Uribe, & Rogo for Arod & Cash"

samram
10-10-2006, 01:58 PM
Interesting thought. Buehrle probably has a bigger name than Garcia, which could be good for trade value. And he's the one who's the most difficult to gauge - no injury/tired arm issues, but just fell off the table in the 2d half. Why? THis is IMO the biggest issue for the Sox this offseason - if you trade Garcia/Vazquez and get 2d half Mark again - it's 5th starter roulette. But if you trade him and he's back to pre-06 Mark :(: . I suppose if he's the primary bait for ARod, one could always console oneself with having a top 2 player and likely top 10-20 of all time when he retires.

Plus, I could see Garcia being easier to resign than Mark what with the Ozzie factor & him living in Chicago with a baby & all.

Only problem would be affording Crede AND Arod. Now if you can get Yank to chip in $$$ along with the Rangers $$$, then it's pretty attractive.

But if NY wants Buehrle that bad, just say "OK, you get Buehrle, Uribe, & Rogo for Arod & Cash"

That's not nearly pink enough, Flight.:D:

The Rangers' money is key. I'm not sure if that money flows with ARod's contract or if the money was just in payments to NYY. If it comes along, you can probably have ARod for around $11M(?). You really can't beat that since I think the top free agents will be starting the bidding well above that.

I wonder how Manny Ramirez could affect the trade winds if Boston decides to deal him. That could take some teams that would otherwise want ARod to shift focus to acquiring Manny (LAA, for example).

southside rocks
10-10-2006, 02:07 PM
Agreed 110%!!! AROD in a Sox uniform is nothing but trouble. I VOTE NO!

I think all the discussion of A-Rod coming to the Sox is funny. Certainly I don't know what will happen, but in the past 3 years have we not seen Ozzie Guillen get RID of players who are "stars" with big names and who put themselves before the team? Good gosh, the clubhouse wasn't big enough for Ozzie and Maggs, and now we're supposed to think that A-Rod could fit his head, his ego, and his salary in there?

And in the past 3 years have we not seen KW acquire players who were undervalued (Bobby Jenks), or underdeveloped (Matt Thornton), or in some way a gamble even though they made a big salary (Jim Thome) -- and NEVER go for the established superstar big name/big salary? And now we're supposed to think that KW will throw half his starting lineup to the Bankee for A-Rod?

Sure it can happen. Anything can happen. But it would be so completely unlike what KW and JR and Ozzie have spent years doing, that I am prepared to bet against it and bet heavily. I'm just saying. :tongue:

We hear all this crap on ESPN and the other talk shows because those idiots have no idea what the White Sox organizational plan is, and probably the Sox could afford A-Rod, and A-Rod has said he would be okay with Chicago. So because it can happen, it should happen, in the silly world of talking heads.

It's funny.

fquaye149
10-10-2006, 02:33 PM
I think all the discussion of A-Rod coming to the Sox is funny. Certainly I don't know what will happen, but in the past 3 years have we not seen Ozzie Guillen get RID of players who are "stars" with big names and who put themselves before the team? Good gosh, the clubhouse wasn't big enough for Ozzie and Maggs, and now we're supposed to think that A-Rod could fit his head, his ego, and his salary in there?

And in the past 3 years have we not seen KW acquire players who were undervalued (Bobby Jenks), or underdeveloped (Matt Thornton), or in some way a gamble even though they made a big salary (Jim Thome) -- and NEVER go for the established superstar big name/big salary? And now we're supposed to think that KW will throw half his starting lineup to the Bankee for A-Rod?

Sure it can happen. Anything can happen. But it would be so completely unlike what KW and JR and Ozzie have spent years doing, that I am prepared to bet against it and bet heavily. I'm just saying. :tongue:

We hear all this crap on ESPN and the other talk shows because those idiots have no idea what the White Sox organizational plan is, and probably the Sox could afford A-Rod, and A-Rod has said he would be okay with Chicago. So because it can happen, it should happen, in the silly world of talking heads.

It's funny.

Yeah totally dude. Jim Thome, Paul Konerko and Freddy Garcia have never been famous.

If Frank Thomas were healthy he'd still be here. If Maggs didn't cost infinity dollars for a sketchy knee he'd still be here.

All this "I don't want A-Rod" talk is so silly to me. Good grief, the man is an outstanding baseball player. He had perhaps his worst year ever and still put up numbers that would eclipse almost any SS in baseball. Oh, and he's one of the best defensive SS's in the game too. Oh yeah, and he can steal a base or 2.

White Sox Randy
10-10-2006, 03:20 PM
Let's say that we do trade Buehrle and Uribe for AROD or something close to that.

What do we have then ?

We have a better hitter at SS and worse defense at SS. We haven't gotten younger, we've gotten older. We haven't added or improved our pitching. And, we've lost our one chance to reduce payroll (trading an expensive starter for youger cheaper talent).

So, next year we can average maybe .25 more runs per game ? This way we can win more 7-6 games ?

We need to shut teams down again with pitching and defense. Isn't that how we won in 2005 ?

fquaye149
10-10-2006, 03:26 PM
Let's say that we do trade Buehrle and Uribe for AROD or something close to that.

What do we have then ?

We have a better hitter at SS and worse defense at SS. We haven't gotten younger, we've gotten older. We haven't added or improved our pitching. And, we've lost our one chance to reduce payroll (trading an expensive starter for youger cheaper talent).

So, next year we can average maybe .25 more runs per game ? This way we can win more 7-6 games ?

We need to shut teams down again with pitching and defense. Isn't that how we won in 2005 ?

BZZT. Wrong.

Garland_IS_God
10-10-2006, 07:24 PM
I was listening to ESPN and Peter Gammons suggested A-Rod should request a trade to the White Sox. Just curious to see if anybody would make this trade? Obviously it would have to include a starting pitcher but I would make this trade in an instant. How bout you?

Soxfanspcu11
10-10-2006, 07:26 PM
I was listening to ESPN and Peter Gammons suggested A-Rod should request a trade to the White Sox. Just curious to see if anybody would make this trade? Obviously it would have to include a starting pitcher but I would make this trade in an instant. How bout you?


There was just a thread on this. And my personal opinion is a resounding NO!

JB98
10-10-2006, 07:28 PM
Fields for A-Rod? Is that a serious question? I'd do that in a second.

MrT27
10-10-2006, 07:32 PM
I wouldn't think twice about it

Chips
10-10-2006, 07:33 PM
I'd throw in Neal Cotts, I'd even pay for his bus fare.

BiggestFan14
10-10-2006, 07:40 PM
Just Fields? Then yes. But I would give up a lot more for ARod if needed.

Soxfanspcu11
10-10-2006, 07:42 PM
Fields for A-Rod? Is that a serious question? I'd do that in a second.


Yeah, plus a starting pitcher, at least, especially in reality.

Cuck_The_Fubs
10-10-2006, 07:43 PM
Pshh i wouldnt give a red cent for ARod. WE have a decent 3b and SS, we dont need a burden like that... Screw that.

mjmcend
10-10-2006, 07:53 PM
Pshh i wouldnt give a red cent for ARod. WE have a decent 3b and SS, we dont need a burden like that... Screw that.

Have you seen our SS's average and his OBP? I will take the best player in baseball at SS on my team any day.

Palehose13
10-10-2006, 07:57 PM
Pshh i wouldnt give a red cent for ARod. WE have a decent 3b and SS, we dont need a burden like that... Screw that.

Put it down...

:bong:

I want Mags back
10-10-2006, 07:58 PM
I give'm crede (won't come back aftter next year anyway, just specuation), Garcia (don't think they want Vazquez back) and cotts i guess for him

jenn2080
10-10-2006, 07:59 PM
I was listening to ESPN and Peter Gammons suggested A-Rod should request a trade to the White Sox. Just curious to see if anybody would make this trade? Obviously it would have to include a starting pitcher but I would make this trade in an instant. How bout you?


Seriously????:?: No thanks. We got Crede. There is no need for Pay Rod, Error Rod, or A Rod.

samram
10-10-2006, 08:01 PM
Put it down...

:bong:

C'mon, can you imagine the burden of having of SS who hits 40 HR and drives in 120 every year? It just sounds unbearable.

Tragg
10-10-2006, 08:03 PM
He's all stats.
There is more than a kernel of truth to the Yankees fans and team's frustration with him in clutch time.
What's he won?
He's enormously expensive
He's getting old

This team had plenty of stats this season....and we are nowheresville in the playoffs. We need players who can help us score that one run when we need it and when the homers aren't flying out. That's what we lack, not a basher.

What about getting some good young players in here.

wsoxfan111
10-10-2006, 08:04 PM
CA - Pierzynski
1B - Konerko
2B - Iguchi
3b - Crede
SS - ARod
LF - ???
CF - ???
RF - Dye
DH - Thome

That would be nice!

ShoelessJoeS
10-10-2006, 08:09 PM
CA - Pierzynski
1B - Konerko
2B - Iguchi
3b - Crede
SS - ARod
LF - ???
CF - ???
RF - Dye
DH - Thome

That would be nice!No way in hell we can have A-Rod without giving up Crede. The Yankees need someone to play third too ya know.

Palehose13
10-10-2006, 08:11 PM
Seriously????:?: No thanks. We got Crede. There is no need for Pay Rod, Error Rod, or A Rod.
How about a left side of Crede and A Rod? He's not a third baseman, but he is one hell of a shortstop.

C'mon, can you imagine the burden of having of SS who hits 40 HR and drives in 120 every year? It just sounds unbearable.
But, but, but...we need bullpen arms!*

*We already know that KW and OG want to improve the bullpen. Why not improve SS too?

He's all stats.
There is more than a kernel of truth to the Yankees fans and team's frustration with him in clutch time.
What's he won?
He's enormously expensive
He's getting old

This team had plenty of stats this season....and we are nowheresville in the playoffs. We need players who can help us score that one run when we need it and when the homers aren't flying out. That's what we lack, not a basher.

What about getting some good young players in here.

:rolleyes: And that is what they said about Contreras. I don't think Alex likes the scrutiny of being in New York. I think he'll fit in just fine in Chicago where he can relax a little bit.

oeo
10-10-2006, 08:13 PM
He's all stats.
There is more than a kernel of truth to the Yankees fans and team's frustration with him in clutch time.
What's he won?
He's enormously expensive
He's getting old

This team had plenty of stats this season....and we are nowheresville in the playoffs. We need players who can help us score that one run when we need it and when the homers aren't flying out. That's what we lack, not a basher.

What about getting some good young players in here.

A-Rod is more than a 'basher'. He's not Jim Thome, he's a complete hitter.

And he's only 31. His contract would be up when he's 35, and he will probably still have 5 good years left in him.

jenn2080
10-10-2006, 08:22 PM
How about a left side of Crede and A Rod? He's not a third baseman, but he is one hell of a shortstop.


Umm....Well Error Rod has to be offensively better then Juan so I would take him to replace Juan but NO CREDE!

Palehose13
10-10-2006, 08:31 PM
Umm....Well Error Rod has to be offensively better then Juan so I would take him to replace Juan but NO CREDE!

Alex Rodriguez should not be playing third base for anyone. I don't think anyone ever suggested that he should be playing third if he was traded here. He should play his natural position and bring his lifetime .305 average and 464 homeruns.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-10-2006, 08:59 PM
The Yankees would only do it if they get a 3B, Crede, in exchange for A-Rod. The Sox would be paying $11m per year for A-Rod, based on Crede getting $5m in 2007 and A-Rod costing $16m.

For $11m, the Sox would get 5 more HRs and 27 more RBIs, based on 2006 stats. That's with A-Rod in a more favorable position in the order than Crede this year. Put Crede in Konerko's spot and I believe Crede would be as productive as Konerko, who drove in 113.

A-Rod for Konerko straight up may make more sense. Their HR production was the same and RBI totals within 8. Put A-Rod at SS and get rid of Uribe's salary. Konerko's and Uribe's salaries would about equal A-Rod's, plus we keep Crede, who can teach A-Rod what it's like to be a clutch hitter.

Palehose13
10-10-2006, 08:59 PM
FWIW: Yankees not looking to deal ARod (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiJ7iRhIL8PURxvM_zbuRI45nYcB?slug=ap-yankees-a-rod&prov=ap&type=lgns)

General manager Brian Cashman said the team had no intention of trading Alex Rodriguez, who failed to drive in a run in the playoffs for the second straight year and was dropped to eighth in the batting order.
"I fully expect him to be here," Cashman said Tuesday. "We're going to figure this thing out together."

oeo
10-10-2006, 09:02 PM
FWIW: Yankees not looking to deal ARod (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiJ7iRhIL8PURxvM_zbuRI45nYcB?slug=ap-yankees-a-rod&prov=ap&type=lgns)

We don't need him, it would just be nice to have him.

And if A-Rod wants out (I don't think we would know if he did...of course he's going to say no; he doesn't need another reason for New York to hate him)...it's a totally different story. If A-Rod wants out, he will probably be traded.

Soxfanspcu11
10-10-2006, 09:29 PM
BZZT. Wrong.

Umm..............why??:?: Uribe is a MUCH better defensive player than AROD. And I am not just talking about AROD being out of position at 3rd. Uribe is a better defensive player, period. I could not imagine AROD EVER diving into the stands like Uribe did in the World Series, he simply would not want to bust up his pretty face. And it's not just that 1 play either, Uribe is just A LOT better than AROD at defense. Offense of course is a different story.

CA - Pierzynski
1B - Konerko
2B - Iguchi
3b - Crede
SS - ARod
LF - ???
CF - ???
RF - Dye
DH - Thome

That would be nice!

:o: I'm REALLY hoping that you are just putting this lineup out there based on positions and not batting order. And the more I read it, the more I see that that is what you are doing, THANK GOD!:D:

A-Rod is more than a 'basher'. He's not Jim Thome, he's a complete hitter.

And he's only 31. His contract would be up when he's 35, and he will probably still have 5 good years left in him.

And where in the fact that he is "only 31" the guarantee that he will EVER return to old "AROD form"? How do we know that last year (2006) was just an "off" year? It is certainly possible that his skills are declining, perhaps very rapidly. It is also possible that the NY media, fans, players, management and just the situation in general really got into his head. Maybe so badly, that he will never be able to return to form, we just never know.

Sure I would love to have the "real" AROD on the Sox. The AROD of about 4 years ago where you knew what he would give you. But now, I'm just not so sure.

All things considered, there is just too great of a risk in having AROD in a White Sox uniform. Aside from what I just said, we would have to likely give up WAAAAAAAAY to much in return. From starters to prospects, I can't see the Yankees just giving him us for Fields :rolleyes:

Keep in mind that one of the Yankees main demands would be starting pitching, or just pitching in general. Regardless of what you think of Mark and his future as an MLB pitcher, you simply do NOT want to give that up. I know that many would say that we have a surplus of pitching and that we can afford to give some of it up. Well, that may be true, but you most CERTAINLY do NOT want to give that pitching up to another American League rival.

You can pretty much bank on the Yankees being in the race again in 2007, even if they bring back the exact same team that they have now. I think that most people would agree that the reason that the Yankees failed in the postseason was because they did not have enough quality pitching. Well, explain to me WHY ON EARTH YOU WOULD WANT TO HELP OUT ANOTHER AMERICAN LEAGUE TEAM BY GIVING THEM PITCHING!?!?!?!?!?!:?:

The reason that a trade for one of our starters or McCarthy for someone like Carl Crawford would work is because Tampa Bay IS NOT a playoff contender! Them adding one of our pitchers to their rotation is not going to adversely affect us and our playoff chances.

Allowing another American League team, a contending team, to have one of our starters would be a DISASTER!!! I'm pretty sure that Kenny would not be stupid enough to do anything like that.

SpartanSoxFan
10-10-2006, 09:57 PM
I don't want him. Ship his insecure ass to the Flubbs. He will fit in there quite nicely with the other characters that choke under the limelight (read: Prior, Wood, et al.) Our #1 priorities to be addressed this offseason are, in order:

1. Bullpen pitching, specifically middle relief
2. Starting pitching
3. Leadoff Hitter

Pay-Rod doesn't fit into our plans. The Evil Empire will undoubtedly require McCarthy and possibly Buehrle in a deal for him, and that isn't feasable. Good riddance.

Jjav829
10-10-2006, 11:11 PM
Umm..............why??:?: Uribe is a MUCH better defensive player than AROD. And I am not just talking about AROD being out of position at 3rd. Uribe is a better defensive player, period. I could not imagine AROD EVER diving into the stands like Uribe did in the World Series, he simply would not want to bust up his pretty face. And it's not just that 1 play either, Uribe is just A LOT better than AROD at defense. Offense of course is a different story.

Is that how we judge the value of players now? Based on who would dive into the stands for a ball? So I guess going by your standards, the top 3 defensive shortstops in baseball are:

1.) Jeter
2.) Uribe
3.) Rowand - I know, I know, he doesn't play shortstop. But I bet if you put him there he would dive into the stands for a ball.

:rolleyes:

Uribe is not "A LOT better than AROD at defense." Arod was arguably the top defensive shortstop in baseball before he was traded to New York and moved to 3B. Uribe may be better, but it's a small difference. It's not like you're comparing Ozzie Smith in his prime to Jose Valentin at his worst.


And where in the fact that he is "only 31" the guarantee that he will EVER return to old "AROD form"? How do we know that last year (2006) was just an "off" year? It is certainly possible that his skills are declining, perhaps very rapidly. It is also possible that the NY media, fans, players, management and just the situation in general really got into his head. Maybe so badly, that he will never be able to return to form, we just never know.

Sure I would love to have the "real" AROD on the Sox. The AROD of about 4 years ago where you knew what he would give you. But now, I'm just not so sure.

What have you seen that would indicate that Arod's skills are declining at the prime age of 31? I haven't seen anything to indicate that. It's much more likely that Arod's problems are a result of him pressing.

And even so, if for some odd reason one of the greatest players to have ever played has already peaked (not very likely), are these types of numbers (.290/40/120 instead of .310/50/130) really that bad? And consider the position. We're talking about a shorstop, a position that is generally hard to get offensive production from. Let's take Arod's "down year" numbers and see where they would rank among ML shortstops.

HR: 35 (Tied for 1st with Bill Hall)
RBI: 121 (In 1st, 18 ahead of Michael Young)
AVG: .290 (Tied for 13th with Nick Punto)
BB: 90 (1st, 9 more than Felipe Lopez)
OBP: .392 (3rd behind Jeter and Guillen)
SLG: .523 (2nd behind Bill Hall)
OPS: .914 (2nd behind Guillen)
SB: 15 (Tied for 14th place)
R: 113 (Tied for 5th with Furcal)

So in a down year, Arod is still near the top of every major category. And he does it all. Add in his great defense and that is the true value of Arod. It's not just that you get this great production, you get it from the shortstop position!

All things considered, there is just too great of a risk in having AROD in a White Sox uniform. Aside from what I just said, we would have to likely give up WAAAAAAAAY to much in return. From starters to prospects, I can't see the Yankees just giving him us for Fields :rolleyes:

Risk? What risk? That he could only hit 35 homers instead of 50? Gee, what a dilemma.

Keep in mind that one of the Yankees main demands would be starting pitching, or just pitching in general. Regardless of what you think of Mark and his future as an MLB pitcher, you simply do NOT want to give that up. I know that many would say that we have a surplus of pitching and that we can afford to give some of it up. Well, that may be true, but you most CERTAINLY do NOT want to give that pitching up to another American League rival.

You can pretty much bank on the Yankees being in the race again in 2007, even if they bring back the exact same team that they have now. I think that most people would agree that the reason that the Yankees failed in the postseason was because they did not have enough quality pitching. Well, explain to me WHY ON EARTH YOU WOULD WANT TO HELP OUT ANOTHER AMERICAN LEAGUE TEAM BY GIVING THEM PITCHING!?!?!?!?!?!:?:

The reason that a trade for one of our starters or McCarthy for someone like Carl Crawford would work is because Tampa Bay IS NOT a playoff contender! Them adding one of our pitchers to their rotation is not going to adversely affect us and our playoff chances.

Allowing another American League team, a contending team, to have one of our starters would be a DISASTER!!! I'm pretty sure that Kenny would not be stupid enough to do anything like that.

You never back away from making a move because of how it could help the other team. If you believe a move improves your team and puts you in a better position to win, you make that trade. There are numerous things that could happen to that other team. Not making a move because of how it could help the other team is a defeatist attitude. That's just saying you don't have enough confidence in yourself to put together a winning team so you'd rather try to make sure the other team doesn't improve.

fquaye149
10-10-2006, 11:12 PM
Seriously????:?: No thanks. We got Crede. There is no need for Pay Rod, Error Rod, or A Rod.

um...Crede and A-Rod play two different positions. If Jeter weren't a douchebag insecure pantywaist who's more concerned with himself than his team, this would be beyond obvious to you.

fquaye149
10-10-2006, 11:14 PM
He's all stats.
There is more than a kernel of truth to the Yankees fans and team's frustration with him in clutch time.
What's he won?
He's enormously expensive
He's getting old

This team had plenty of stats this season....and we are nowheresville in the playoffs. We need players who can help us score that one run when we need it and when the homers aren't flying out. That's what we lack, not a basher.

What about getting some good young players in here.
When the **** has he ever been on a team with even marginal pitching?

but yeah, what has he won? One man can win for a whole team....****...we had Dye Thome Konerko Crede and AJ and we couldn't win with slightly below average pitching.

And you expect A-Rod to what?

gmamfb

fquaye149
10-10-2006, 11:17 PM
Umm..............why??:?: Uribe is a MUCH better defensive player than AROD. And I am not just talking about AROD being out of position at 3rd. Uribe is a better defensive player, period. I could not imagine AROD EVER diving into the stands like Uribe did in the World Series, he simply would not want to bust up his pretty face. And it's not just that 1 play either, Uribe is just A LOT better than AROD at defense. Offense of course is a different story.



Ok, so since you SAY Uribe is better defensively than A-Rod, it automatically cancels out what every rational, intelligent, astute baseball fan knows to be true?

Look at any metric. A-Rod is a better defensive SS than Uribe. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't know what they're talking about.

And by the way "I can't imagine A-Rod diving into the stands"? LOL. Are you Stuart Scott flexing your hardon for Jeter? Take a hike.

oeo
10-11-2006, 12:27 AM
And where in the fact that he is "only 31" the guarantee that he will EVER return to old "AROD form"? How do we know that last year (2006) was just an "off" year? It is certainly possible that his skills are declining, perhaps very rapidly. It is also possible that the NY media, fans, players, management and just the situation in general really got into his head. Maybe so badly, that he will never be able to return to form, we just never know.

I find it really hard to believe that he just "lost it", and he's on a steady decline, especially considering that he's still pretty young. One of the better players of all time just suddenly loses his touch? I doubt it.

samram
10-11-2006, 08:31 AM
You never back away from making a move because of how it could help the other team. If you believe a move improves your team and puts you in a better position to win, you make that trade. There are numerous things that could happen to that other team. Not making a move because of how it could help the other team is a defeatist attitude. That's just saying you don't have enough confidence in yourself to put together a winning team so you'd rather try to make sure the other team doesn't improve.

I agree with your entire post, but especially that in bold. If it makes the Sox better, KW should make the deal even if the Yankees get better.

And again, the bullpen can indeed be improved even if ARod were to be acquired. There's no rule saying you can only make one deal in an offseason.

OEO Magglio
10-11-2006, 08:49 AM
FWIW: Yankees not looking to deal ARod (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiJ7iRhIL8PURxvM_zbuRI45nYcB?slug=ap-yankees-a-rod&prov=ap&type=lgns)
Not worth much to be honest. Cashman isn't going to come out and say that he's going to trade Alex.

wdelaney72
10-11-2006, 09:03 AM
The current Joe Crede situation dictates everything that will happen this off-season for the Sox... including A-Rod. My understanding is that the Sox want Joe to have surgery, and Joe is evaluating his options. Joe is in his final arbitration year and will command a VERY large contract when he becomes a free agent. The problem is, the White Sox will not be the ones to give him that contract if he has a questionable back. Also, I don't see them rolling the dice with him this season and letting him hit the FA market. The Sox will want to get value for him before he walks. If Joe doesn't have surgery and he's not extended, some sort of Crede for A-Rod based trade is a good possibility. I may not like it, but I certainly wouldn't blame the Sox for dealing Crede if they feel he's a health risk and they can't lock him up. Acquiring A-Rod could be a decent move. He's still one of the best players in the game, and his contract is now in a more manageable stage.

wdelaney72
10-11-2006, 09:04 AM
http://www.nyyfans.com

Browse through here. It gives a much more detailed overview of why Torre and A-Rod will not be wearing the same uniform next season.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 09:25 AM
I PRAY TO GOD that AROD will not end up with the White Sox next season. That money could be spent much more wisely on some bullpen and/or starting pitching.

Like I said in another thread, AROD is an overpaid, overhyped, overrated, crybaby, AND WE DO NOT NEED HIM.

Flight #24
10-11-2006, 09:30 AM
How do we know that last year (2006) was just an "off" year? It is certainly possible that his skills are declining, perhaps very rapidly. It is also possible that the NY media, fans, players, management and just the situation in general really got into his head. Maybe so badly, that he will never be able to return to form, we just never know.

....

Regardless of what you think of Mark and his future as an MLB pitcher, you simply do NOT want to give that up.

Just so I'm clear: We can't trust that ARod will return to the form he's put up many many years in a row, but we can't give up Buehrle, who just put up an ERA around 6? (Or are you assuming that Buehrle's a safe bet to return to his career form, but for some reason ARod is not?:?: )

Hitters almost never decline significantly at 31. Not from numbers that they've put up for multiple years in a row. ARod is a lot more likely to put up his "traditional" line than his '06 line, while providing excellent D (even if Uribe's better, it's marginal). And only in NY, where the "captain" has a stick up his ass about comments made years ago and has it in for the guy has ARod been called anything bad in the clubhouse. And even that's more of a "loner" than anything cancerous. The guy's a professional, comes to work and goes about trying to do his job. Kind of like....Paulie & Thome. Those guys aren't exactly clubhouse cutups either. IMO he'd fit in just fine.

oeo
10-11-2006, 09:33 AM
I PRAY TO GOD that AROD will not end up with the White Sox next season. That money could be spent much more wisely on some bullpen and/or starting pitching.

Like I said in another thread, AROD is an overpaid, overhyped, overrated, crybaby, AND WE DO NOT NEED HIM.

Uh...who's to say that both cannot happen? Kenny knows what needs to be fixed (the bullpen), but if a deal comes up that he can't pass up, you get, arguably, the best player in the game today.

Maybe overpaid, but overhyped/overrated? No way.

nodiggity59
10-11-2006, 09:42 AM
I'd love to see us deal a SP plus prospects for ARod. This would allow us to allow our young OF to mature into players w/out pressure, as I'd like to see us then trade Dye in his walk year for all the BP help we'll need. Hell, trade Freddy and Dye for Arod and Scott Shields? Where do I sign?

BanditJimmy
10-11-2006, 09:50 AM
I fell off my chair when I read the posts of people saying they would not take A-Rod on our team.

A 31 year old future hall of fame SS (and by future I mean when he retires at 42 years old), are you guys serious?

Thome25
10-11-2006, 10:08 AM
I fell off my chair when I read the posts of people saying they would not take A-Rod on our team.

A 31 year old future hall of fame SS (and by future I mean when he retires at 42 years old), are you guys serious?

Look at the last 5 teams to win the WS. They didn't have a team filled with perennial all stars.

They had good, solid, balanced, ballplayers and GREAT PITCHING AND DEFENSE.

The Yankees way of running things by having an all-star at every position doesn't cut it anymore. They're finally realizing that. Hopefully they dump their junk on some other team not us.

The money paid to AROD could be spent much more wisely on pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

BanditJimmy
10-11-2006, 10:30 AM
A-Rod is junk?

oeo
10-11-2006, 10:31 AM
Look at the last 5 teams to win the WS. They didn't have a team filled with perennial all stars.

They had good, solid, balanced, ballplayers and GREAT PITCHING AND DEFENSE.

The Yankees way of running things by having an all-star at every position doesn't cut it anymore. They're finally realizing that. Hopefully they dump their junk on some other team not us.

The money paid to AROD could be spent much more wisely on pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

Alex Rodriguez is a good defensive shortstop. And he showed last year that he can be a pretty good defensive third baseman. Something is in his head, whether it's Joe Torre, the NY media, or their fans (or all of it). If you have a realistic chance to get a future HOF'er, you do it. No one said that it's A-Rod and nothing else...Kenny can still get bullpen help.

Thome25
10-11-2006, 10:42 AM
Alex Rodriguez is a good defensive shortstop. And he showed last year that he can be a pretty good defensive third baseman. Something is in his head, whether it's Joe Torre, the NY media, or their fans (or all of it). If you have a realistic chance to get a future HOF'er, you do it. No one said that it's A-Rod and nothing else...Kenny can still get bullpen help.


This isn't a loaded question but, How do the Sox honestly fit Arods $16MM + AND Bullpen and/or starting pitching help.

Their payroll is already going to top out at $100MM for 12 players after they pick up the options on Dye and Iguchi. this doesn't include raises Crede, McDougal, and Podsednik will get(if they choose to re-sign him)

Future HOF's are NOT the end all be all. We had one that probably put up better numbers than AROD and it got us nowhere. (Frank Thomas)

Baseball is a team game more than it ever was. The name of the game is to have several young, hungry, solid, balanced ballplayers and a great pitching staff.

Arod fits into that category but can he play LF, bat leadoff, maybe play some CF, and pitch out of the bullpen? Because the Sox need all of the above.

Arod only fills one hole. A trade for him would open up even more holes as well.

Flight #24
10-11-2006, 11:21 AM
This isn't a loaded question but, How do the Sox honestly fit Arods $16MM + AND Bullpen and/or starting pitching help.

Their payroll is already going to top out at $100MM for 12 players after they pick up the options on Dye and Iguchi. this doesn't include raises Crede, McDougal, and Podsednik will get(if they choose to re-sign him)

Future HOF's are NOT the end all be all. We had one that probably put up better numbers than AROD and it got us nowhere. (Frank Thomas)

Baseball is a team game more than it ever was. The name of the game is to have several young, hungry, solid, balanced ballplayers and a great pitching staff.

Arod fits into that category but can he play LF, bat leadoff, maybe play some CF, and pitch out of the bullpen? Because the Sox need all of the above.

Arod only fills one hole. A trade for him would open up even more holes as well.

FWIW, a trade of Crede(~$5M) + Garcia(10M) net even for the Sox financially because Fields(.33M)+ARod (16M) make about the same combined. That enables you to trade Uribe(5M) for either relief pitching or $$$ savings which can go to replace McCarthy with 1-2 solid relief arms.

Sox also can save some $$$ by letting Pods (2M), Hermanson (3M) walk and using that to get a decent LF ala Dave Roberts who would be a perfect platoon with a younger guy in Sweeney.

Yes, you'd have 2 young guys in the lineup, but Anderson showed significant improvement over the season, and you could always plug Mackowiak in LF and move Roberts/Sweeney to CF. (Or Mack can go back to 3B if Fields struggles.)

Roberts-Iguchi-ARod-Dye-Thome-Konerko-AJ-Fields-Anderson is a pretty good lineup. The rotation is what it would be regardless: Garland-Contreras-Vazquez-Buehrle-McCarthy, and the 'pen is Jenks-McDougal-Thornton-2 guys at 2-3M each-Haeger.

That's a solid all-around team with a much better offense and as good or better pitching at both ends of the game.

Roberts-

BanditJimmy
10-11-2006, 11:45 AM
FWIW, a trade of Crede(~$5M) + Garcia(10M) net even for the Sox financially because Fields(.33M)+ARod (16M) make about the same combined. That enables you to trade Uribe(5M) for either relief pitching or $$$ savings which can go to replace McCarthy with 1-2 solid relief arms.

Sox also can save some $$$ by letting Pods (2M), Hermanson (3M) walk and using that to get a decent LF ala Dave Roberts who would be a perfect platoon with a younger guy in Sweeney.

Yes, you'd have 2 young guys in the lineup, but Anderson showed significant improvement over the season, and you could always plug Mackowiak in LF and move Roberts/Sweeney to CF. (Or Mack can go back to 3B if Fields struggles.)

Roberts-Iguchi-ARod-Dye-Thome-Konerko-AJ-Fields-Anderson is a pretty good lineup. The rotation is what it would be regardless: Garland-Contreras-Vazquez-Buehrle-McCarthy, and the 'pen is Jenks-McDougal-Thornton-2 guys at 2-3M each-Haeger.

That's a solid all-around team with a much better offense and as good or better pitching at both ends of the game.

Roberts-


Agree.


2007 Salaries will be a wash (Crede + Garcia = A-Rod)

Assuming attendance stays the same for the next 2-3 years, keeping a $100 million to $110 million should not be a problem for the Sox.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-11-2006, 12:24 PM
FWIW, a trade of Crede(~$5M) + Garcia(10M) net even for the Sox financially because Fields(.33M)+ARod (16M) make about the same combined. That enables you to trade Uribe(5M) for either relief pitching or $$$ savings which can go to replace McCarthy with 1-2 solid relief arms.

Why trade Garcia? The starting pitching needs to improve, but Garcia, as much as I hate to say it, was not the problem. Buerhle and Vazquez were. Give them Crede and Buerhle maybe, but what have the Sox really done to improve the team by trading a solid third baseman and a starting pitcher who may (or may not) turn things around?

If we trade a starter, I want someone's best pitching prospect or two, minimum. The Sox have to improve their bullpen dramatically from last year (the bottom three in the pen) and their starting pitching. They scored plenty of runs in 2006 to win plenty of games. The pen failed, in particular.

oeo
10-11-2006, 12:35 PM
Why trade Garcia? The starting pitching needs to improve, but Garcia, as much as I hate to say it, was not the problem. Buerhle and Vazquez were. Give them Crede and Buerhle maybe, but what have the Sox really done to improve the team by trading a solid third baseman and a starting pitcher who may (or may not) turn things around?

If we trade a starter, I want someone's best pitching prospect or two, minimum. The Sox have to improve their bullpen dramatically from last year (the bottom three in the pen) and their starting pitching. They scored plenty of runs in 2006 to win plenty of games. The pen failed, in particular.

If we trade Buehrle, we have exactly zero lefties in our rotation. Trading Buehrle would be stupid because a)Last year was his first and probably only bad year and b)He's a lefty...more valuable than any of our other starters. If anything, I'd like to have one more lefty, not one less.

fquaye149
10-11-2006, 12:44 PM
Why trade Garcia? The starting pitching needs to improve, but Garcia, as much as I hate to say it, was not the problem. Buerhle and Vazquez were. Give them Crede and Buerhle maybe, but what have the Sox really done to improve the team by trading a solid third baseman and a starting pitcher who may (or may not) turn things around?

If we trade a starter, I want someone's best pitching prospect or two, minimum. The Sox have to improve their bullpen dramatically from last year (the bottom three in the pen) and their starting pitching. They scored plenty of runs in 2006 to win plenty of games. The pen failed, in particular.

Garcia was not a problem toward the end of the season. All other times in the season Garcia was a problem.

White Sox Randy
10-11-2006, 12:49 PM
I didn't say that I wouldn't want AROD on my team but he does not fit right now with this Sox team that does not need more offense but better pitching.

Plus, the Yankees want picthing in return. Plus the Sox can't afford to take on much more payroll. We are just not a good fit for this trade.

AROD will go to a team that is in dire need of offensive help and has some pitching to spare - that's not the White Sox.

And, that's IF he is traded which is pretty doubtful to begin with.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-11-2006, 03:47 PM
If we trade Buehrle, we have exactly zero lefties in our rotation. Trading Buehrle would be stupid because a)Last year was his first and probably only bad year and b)He's a lefty...more valuable than any of our other starters. If anything, I'd like to have one more lefty, not one less.

How do you know it was his first and only bad year? You have zero way of knowing. Wishing and hoping maybe, but that's it. The way he was lit up in the second half does not give me much confidence he figured out what was wrong. Plus, Buerhle maintained all year that he was not tired or injured. If he was not lying, I don't like his chances of going out there in 2007 and winning 18 games. Hope he does, but that's just wishing and hoping that he had a tired arm and he just didn't know it.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-11-2006, 03:50 PM
Garcia was not a problem toward the end of the season. All other times in the season Garcia was a problem.

Garcia won 17 games. My point is you don't just idly give up pitching for hitting when hitting was not the problem in 2006, pitching was. Replacing 17 wins is not easy. A-Rod can't pitch.

oeo
10-11-2006, 04:09 PM
How do you know it was his first and only bad year? You have zero way of knowing. Wishing and hoping maybe, but that's it. The way he was lit up in the second half does not give me much confidence he figured out what was wrong. Plus, Buerhle maintained all year that he was not tired or injured. If he was not lying, I don't like his chances of going out there in 2007 and winning 18 games. Hope he does, but that's just wishing and hoping that he had a tired arm and he just didn't know it.

I have a lot more evidence that this was a fluke year than you have that it was not. 5 very good years vs. 1 bad one...which one is the fluke? If he was a power pitcher and lost some velocity, then I could agree with you...but he's not. He's never been a power pitcher, it's all about location with Buehrle, and what he did not do this year was locate. It's not 'wishing and hoping', it's called an off season. Paul Konerko had one back in 2003 and a lot of people wanted him out of here...that wouldn't have been a very smart move, and he wasn't even as successful as Buehrle yet.

Buehrle will be fine, and I'm telling you, trading him would be a huge mistake. He's a young, proven, left-handed starting pitcher...and you just want him out of here because of one season? No thanks. Get rid of the guy that had more than pitching problems all year, but also had head problems: Garcia. Ozzie and Kenny do not like guys that don't try, and apparantly Garcia doesn't like to try against lesser opponents. And BTW, Garcia won a ton of games because of the offense, not because he pitched well. Wins/losses are not a very accurate statistic.

fquaye149
10-11-2006, 11:11 PM
Garcia won 17 games. My point is you don't just idly give up pitching for hitting when hitting was not the problem in 2006, pitching was. Replacing 17 wins is not easy. A-Rod can't pitch.

Mind telling me what his ERA was last year?

Gregory Pratt
10-11-2006, 11:22 PM
Mind telling me what his ERA was last year?

.02 worse than Garland's. Ultimately an insignificant difference.

Freddy was operating with dead arm all year, and health issues, said him and Cooper once he finally started pitching well again.

I believe it. He's thrown nearly 500 innings in two years.

Truth is, Freddy's our best overall pitcher, as far as talent and mental makeup, and certainly when he's in Big Game Mode. He impressed me this year, because he didn't have his fastball all year until he sort-of got it back at the end, and he still grinded, and still kept us in a lot of games, and still had as good a year as Jonny Hollywood.

Beautox
10-12-2006, 12:03 AM
.
Truth is, Freddy's our best overall pitcher, as far as talent and mental makeup, and certainly when he's in Big Game Mode. He impressed me this year, because he didn't have his fastball all year until he sort-of got it back at the end, and he still grinded, and still kept us in a lot of games, and still had as good a year as Jonny Hollywood.

The truth is, games in April against the royals mean as much as games in sept against the angels. His attitude and self described "big game" pitching along with the fact that he doesn't stop the run game and he shows up team mates means he should go.

Gregory Pratt
10-12-2006, 01:00 AM
The truth is, games in April against the royals mean as much as games in sept against the angels. His attitude and self described "big game" pitching along with the fact that he doesn't stop the run game and he shows up team mates means he should go.

If you wanna talk about games in April against the Royals, how about that Garland game against KC, since you wanna specifically single THAT out.

Bottom line: Garcia pitched through a lot of pain, and that, more than "mental preparation" had to do with his struggles. He'd rather get up for a big game, but he doesn't mail it in against crap teams, either, even though it is the chic thing to say. Similar to, "GARLAND DOESN'T CARE!" from a few years ago.

About him showing up teammates: it happens. I don't blame him for throwing his hands up when Mack lets a popup fall right in front of him because he's afraid to call off Juanito. I'll bet it's nowhere near as big an issue in the lockerroom as it is here.

Garcia's attitude is, "I want to compete." He can pitch on my team anyday.

I also think that Garland's numbers being so similar to Garcia's really puts truth to the bull**** about Hollywood being an Ace or our Ace, when he's just barely there with a guy who'd lost his fastball.

Beautox
10-12-2006, 01:27 AM
If you wanna talk about games in April against the Royals, how about that Garland game against KC, since you wanna specifically single THAT out.

Bottom line: Garcia pitched through a lot of pain, and that, more than "mental preparation" had to do with his struggles. He'd rather get up for a big game, but he doesn't mail it in against crap teams, either, even though it is the chic thing to say. Similar to, "GARLAND DOESN'T CARE!" from a few years ago.

About him showing up teammates: it happens. I don't blame him for throwing his hands up when Mack lets a popup fall right in front of him because he's afraid to call off Juanito. I'll bet it's nowhere near as big an issue in the lockerroom as it is here.

Garcia's attitude is, "I want to compete." He can pitch on my team anyday.

I also think that Garland's numbers being so similar to Garcia's really puts truth to the bull**** about Hollywood being an Ace or our Ace, when he's just barely there with a guy who'd lost his fastball.

Its not the chic thing to say, its a fact what are his career ERA against both TB and KC? just looking at his splits from 03-05 because thats all i can find on espn.com his respective career ERAs against both of them are 5.75(TB) and 5.43(KC), and just this year they were 5.93(KC) & 6.43(TB) that to me says "hes mailing it in". Also how do you know he pitched threw pain? i never seen an official press release or those words uttered once from the sox organization.

As for showing up his teammates, thats funny no one else on this staff shows up their respective team mates, not even "Hollywood".

I'm not giving Garland a free pass, but unlike Garcia hes younger and hasn't lost his stuff and after his horrid start he became the stopper for this team. Garcia didn't turn it around till sept.

Garcia's 2006 ERA 4.53 WHIP 1.28, he also allowed the most SB against him in the bigs. Here are his monthly splits too: April 5.86, May 3.70, June 4.81, July 5.52, August 5.72, September 2.49


Garland 2006 ERA ERA 4.51 WHIP 1.36 Here are his monthly splits too: April 7.11, May 5.40, June 4.50, July 2.89, August 2.89, September 4.70, the sept 25th start against Cle when he gave up 8ER killed his sept ERA.

Tragg
10-12-2006, 07:33 AM
Buehrle will be fine, and I'm telling you, trading him would be a huge mistake. He's a young, proven, left-handed starting pitcher....

I agree with that.

gosox83
10-12-2006, 09:28 AM
Just read in the Cubune...that KW has a "thing" for A-Rod, and this trade could be on the horizon.

Personally, I don't want him here. I think Crede is worth a ton more runs than A-Rod. I am including his defense saving many runs of course. Freddy really seemed like he got in a groove last year toward the end.

What are your thoughts on this potential trade.

I suppose we will know in about 5 or 6 Wednesdays from now.

jenn2080
10-12-2006, 09:30 AM
Here ya go. This saves everyone from having to retype how they feel.


The Feelings (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79913)

Sox-o-matic
10-12-2006, 09:30 AM
I think the Tribune has a "thing" for making **** up.

Beautox
10-12-2006, 09:31 AM
Fields is ML ready, even though he needs to cut down on his SO rate, he can defiantly step in to play 3B, i would move arod back to SS and deal uribe and pods for BP help / prospects.

Anyways looking forward to an exciting offseason.

Hangar18
10-12-2006, 09:32 AM
yeah, theres about 4 versions of this thread everywhere.
For the Record. NO.
UNLESS ............... the Yankees thrown in a couple of Top Notch Pitching Prospects .....

Beautox
10-12-2006, 09:34 AM
yeah, theres about 4 versions of this thread everywhere.
For the Record. NO.
UNLESS ............... the Yankees thrown in a couple of Top Notch Pitching Prospects .....

The Yankees have two SP prospects in Hughes and Clippard, and both our untouchable. Cox on the other hand is not and will make a fin set up man or MR.

stacksedwards
10-12-2006, 09:37 AM
I would do it in heart beat. Freddy and Crede why not? I think if A-Rod got out of NY he would flourish. I'm taking 50 Hr and 130 RBI's. Imagine that line up with JD, Thome, Paulie, and A-Rod in the middle of it.
That being said it really does us no good without guys in the 1 and 2 spot that get on base and we still need consistent pitching. If we can get a starter for Pods and Uribe and either Jerry Owens or Sweeny can lead off for us or sign a free agent like Dave Roberts of lead off than I like it.

PorkChopExpress
10-12-2006, 10:16 AM
I don't think it would be a bad move, but it wouldn't happen without other deals lined up. I agree A-Rod would be moved back to SS, meaning Uribe gets traded, may be some kind of deal including Pods to Boston (I think they are still looking for a solid SS) for Coco (is he a FA or trade bait?) and prospects. Coco makes a nice 1 or 2 in the order and plays a good left field. Then your lineup looks something like this:

Coco LF
Iguchi 2B
Dye RF
A-Rod SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Fields 3B
Anderson CF.

That's a solid defensive alignment as well as a pretty potent lineup. But again, pitching is what is important, so maybe the deal for A-rod includes some kind of reliever like Proctor.

chaerulez
10-12-2006, 10:23 AM
It's a good idea if A-Rod is reverted back to SS. Then we can let them take Uribe in the deal and maybe send George and Cashman a video clip of the last inning of the 2005 World Series to convince them of Uribe's greatness. Then we can plug Fields in 3B.

White Sox Randy
10-12-2006, 10:27 AM
The move comes down to this:

Crede and Uribe's offense vs. AROD and Fields. And the answer is ? - a little better with AROD and Fields ? Do we even know ?

Defense: We are taking a step back at both positions. That much is clear.

Money wise : much more costly - probably 4-7 mil. more per year with AROD

LASTLY: We are giving up Garcia and getting NO PITCHING in return.

I don't see how this trade makes the White Sox better - maybe more popular.

oeo
10-12-2006, 10:29 AM
I don't think it would be a bad move, but it wouldn't happen without other deals lined up. I agree A-Rod would be moved back to SS, meaning Uribe gets traded, may be some kind of deal including Pods to Boston (I think they are still looking for a solid SS) for Coco (is he a FA or trade bait?) and prospects. Coco makes a nice 1 or 2 in the order and plays a good left field. Then your lineup looks something like this:

Coco LF
Iguchi 2B
Dye RF
A-Rod SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Fields 3B
Anderson CF.

That's a solid defensive alignment as well as a pretty potent lineup. But again, pitching is what is important, so maybe the deal for A-rod includes some kind of reliever like Proctor.

I wouldn't mind seeing Crisp here. He might be had for cheap since he's coming off a not-so-great year (although probably not, they wanted BUEHRLE for him at the deadline). I know he wasn't very good last year, but Kenny seems to like these high risk, high reward moves. I like that lineup a lot, especially if Anderson improves. We may lose some power from Uribe, but I think Fields would fill in quite nicely.

Myrtle72
10-12-2006, 10:29 AM
Iguchi 2B
Dye RF
A-Rod SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Fields 3B
Anderson CF.

Everything else aside, it's pretty nice when you have to push a power hitter like Paulie down to the number 6 spot beause your line up calls for it. :cool:

Steelrod
10-12-2006, 10:39 AM
The move comes down to this:

Crede and Uribe's offense vs. AROD and Fields. And the answer is ? - a little better with AROD and Fields ? Do we even know ?

Defense: We are taking a step back at both positions. That much is clear.

Money wise : much more costly - probably 4-7 mil. more per year with AROD

LASTLY: We are giving up Garcia and getting NO PITCHING in return.

I don't see how this trade makes the White Sox better - maybe more popular.
ARod back at short is a plus. not a minus. He'll be comfortable there.
Money is close, with Texas and maybe NY pitching in. Crede's due for a big raise, and we'll lose him after the year.
Garcia was nothing special until we were out of it. Improves his value, and I don't have to watch runners go crazy on the bases.
McCarthy will fill the bill, with the bullpen the only target left, which it already is!
MAKE THE DEAL !!!

oeo
10-12-2006, 10:46 AM
The move comes down to this:

Crede and Uribe's offense vs. AROD and Fields. And the answer is ? - a little better with AROD and Fields ? Do we even know ?

Defense: We are taking a step back at both positions. That much is clear.

Money wise : much more costly - probably 4-7 mil. more per year with AROD

LASTLY: We are giving up Garcia and getting NO PITCHING in return.

I don't see how this trade makes the White Sox better - maybe more popular.

Offense: A-Rod + Fields is probably better. A-Rod > Crede, and I think Fields can match or do better than Uribe in every department except power. But the 10+ extra homeruns from A-Rod makes up for that.

Defense: A-Rod is a SS, and he was a pretty damn good one. I don't think you can take away from his defense. I also think Fields is being highly underrated defensively around here. In the final series of the year, he made quite a few nice plays (he has a CANNON for an arm).

Money: Are you forgetting Freddy's contract? It's pretty much a wash.

Britt Burns
10-12-2006, 10:46 AM
The move comes down to this:

Crede and Uribe's offense vs. AROD and Fields. And the answer is ? - a little better with AROD and Fields ? Do we even know ?

Defense: We are taking a step back at both positions. That much is clear.

Money wise : much more costly - probably 4-7 mil. more per year with AROD

LASTLY: We are giving up Garcia and getting NO PITCHING in return.

I don't see how this trade makes the White Sox better - maybe more popular.

Perfect analysis. There is nothing about this deal that is a net positive for the Sox. ARod might look sexy, but I'll take Crede's glove and improving bat along with Garcia and the trade value he retains. Offense is not our problem-or should I say, power is not our problem. We need to get back to the strong pitching/defense/timely hitting as we had in 2005. ARod does none of those things.

DaleJRFan
10-12-2006, 10:59 AM
Kenny Williams is smarter than this. Why would you trade a rising star third baseman with gold glove defense that is going to hit 300/30/100 - especially when you have two more years of arbitration with the player?? The only way you deal a player like this is if you are getting a dominant closer or ace starter in return...

If you trade Joe Crede, you have to put a rookie at third base that had ONE good season at AAA. No one knows what he’ll do in a full season. Are we going to get Brian Anderson part 2? Are we going to have to hear about "Josh Fields will be good when he reaches his potential"?? He looked overmatched the majority of his at-bats in 06. I don’t think that is going to change this season. KW’s approach is “win now” and it doesn’t make sense to trade arguably your best “all around” player for another masher. With A-Rod, the team gets more expensive, older, weakened defensively but, he’ll hit a lot of home runs. It’s 2003 & 2004 all over again… Just say NO to ARod.

I’ll take 300/30/100, gold glove defense – for 6 or 7 million over a rookie at third and 16 million at SS. There are better solutions out there. Even so, A-Rod is a great player, don't get me wrong... but what is the justification or argument for this type of trade? "Imagine the lineup with ARod"?? Tell that to the 2006 NY Yankees. Shoddy defense, bad starting pitching and NO clutch hitting.

This team needs another dominant setup man in the bullpen and a backup plan (other than 15 spring training NRIs) for the second bullpen leftie. Start by signing Justin Speier (the guy is nasty... link (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=133221)) to compliment Thornton/MacDougal. Trade Freddy or Vazquez for prospects, flip the prospects and some of our own for a leadoff hitter and call it an offseason.

OR, just stick with Uribe and Pods. Improve the pitching and build on the team's strengths. With a rotation of Garland, Buehrle, Contreras, McCarthy, Vazquez/Garcia and a dominant bullpen, the Sox won’t need $ARod to win the division and get back to the playoffs. Defense, timely hitting and pitching win – not fifty homeruns.

chaerulez
10-12-2006, 11:03 AM
The move comes down to this:

Crede and Uribe's offense vs. AROD and Fields. And the answer is ? - a little better with AROD and Fields ? Do we even know ?

Defense: We are taking a step back at both positions. That much is clear.

Money wise : much more costly - probably 4-7 mil. more per year with AROD

LASTLY: We are giving up Garcia and getting NO PITCHING in return.

I don't see how this trade makes the White Sox better - maybe more popular.

Did Crede all of a sudden turn into some sort of 40 HR guy over night? The offense is not a wash, it becomes better by a lot. Crede hit his career high in HRs this season 30. A-Rod in a full season has hit under 30 just once. A-Rod is also good for 80 walks a season when Crede has walked about half as much. As for Fields, it's hard to say how he would do in a full season. But I think it's safe to assume he can do better than the .235/.257/.441 that Uribe posted this season. The defense would be worse because Fields is a rookie and it would depend on if A-Rod can go back to gold glove form at SS. And giving up Garcia, well maybe we can ask for a relief pitcher in return because that's what we would need as all it does is send McCarthy into the rotation.

batmanZoSo
10-12-2006, 11:05 AM
No, thanks.

palehozenychicty
10-12-2006, 11:15 AM
No, thanks.

I concur. No a-fraud on my team.

soxfanatlanta
10-12-2006, 11:18 AM
I don't see the benefits; it does not fit into KW goals for this off season.

NardiWasHere
10-12-2006, 11:25 AM
KW’s approach is “win now” and it doesn’t make sense to trade arguably your best “all around” player for another masher.



:?:
This sentence make no sense to me. If KW is win now, he would want to aquire A-Rod.

Crede is our best all around player?

You know who many people consider the best all around player in baseball?

ARod isn't a "masher" in the McGuire/Bonds sense. Who do you think runs better? Slow-ass Crede or ARod?

I'm convinced some people here dont keep up with the rest of the MLB... thats why there is a lot of under/over valuing of players not on the Sox.


Pujols is just another masher!
How many rings does Roy Halladay have?
Big Papi isn't blue collar enough. We won the World Series with Grinders! Not stars!

SockItThome
10-12-2006, 11:27 AM
Oh yeah baby! Crede is wonderful, but A-Rod is the best player ever IMO.

NardiWasHere
10-12-2006, 11:31 AM
Kenny Williams is smarter than this. Why would you trade a rising star third baseman with gold glove defense that is going to hit 300/30/100 - especially when you have two more years of arbitration with the player?? The only way you deal a player like this is if you are getting a dominant closer or ace starter in return...

If you trade Joe Crede, you have to put a rookie at third base that had ONE good season at AAA. No one knows what he’ll do in a full season. Are we going to get Brian Anderson part 2? Are we going to have to hear about "Josh Fields will be good when he reaches his potential"?? He looked overmatched the majority of his at-bats in 06. I don’t think that is going to change this season. KW’s approach is “win now” and it doesn’t make sense to trade arguably your best “all around” player for another masher. With A-Rod, the team gets more expensive, older, weakened defensively but, he’ll hit a lot of home runs. It’s 2003 & 2004 all over again… Just say NO to ARod.

I’ll take 300/30/100, gold glove defense – for 6 or 7 million over a rookie at third and 16 million at SS. There are better solutions out there. Even so, A-Rod is a great player, don't get me wrong... but what is the justification or argument for this type of trade? "Imagine the lineup with ARod"?? Tell that to the 2006 NY Yankees. Shoddy defense, bad starting pitching and NO clutch hitting.

This team needs another dominant setup man in the bullpen and a backup plan (other than 15 spring training NRIs) for the second bullpen leftie. Start by signing Justin Speier (the guy is nasty... link (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=133221)) to compliment Thornton/MacDougal. Trade Freddy or Vazquez for prospects, flip the prospects and some of our own for a leadoff hitter and call it an offseason.

OR, just stick with Uribe and Pods. Improve the pitching and build on the team's strengths. With a rotation of Garland, Buehrle, Contreras, McCarthy, Vazquez/Garcia and a dominant bullpen, the Sox won’t need $ARod to win the division and get back to the playoffs. Defense, timely hitting and pitching win – not fifty homeruns.

Let me make myself clear... you have a thought out argument.... I wasn't bashing you in my last post... we just disagree on the advantages of getting a guy like arod....

DaleJRFan
10-12-2006, 11:44 AM
Let me make myself clear... you have a thought out argument.... I wasn't bashing you in my last post... we just disagree on the advantages of getting a guy like arod....


:?: Make yourself clear by making a legitimate argument other than teal posts. How many rings does ARod have?? None - because he is a ****ing choker. His postseason numbers are some of the worst I've ever seen.

I'll take Crede and Uribe for 10 million a year combined over $ARod's 20 million anyday of the week if it means the team has more money to spend on pitching.

What I don't understand is people who think an All-world lineup like the 2006 Yankees are going to win a damn thing... because they won't.

PITCHING and DEFENSE! Not homeruns.

Just say NO to Arod.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-12-2006, 11:55 AM
I wouldn't give up any starting pitching without getting pitching in return. Garcia won 17 games. While many Sox fans may be happy to see him go, there will be a number of teams interested in a veteran starter who knows how to pitch and how to win. I would want to get a minimum of some team's best pitching prospects in return for Garcia. The Sox have plenty of hitting. Pitching, speed, and defense is the ticket to championships.

voodoochile
10-12-2006, 12:02 PM
The move comes down to this:

Crede and Uribe's offense vs. AROD and Fields. And the answer is ? - a little better with AROD and Fields ? Do we even know ?

Defense: We are taking a step back at both positions. That much is clear.

Money wise : much more costly - probably 4-7 mil. more per year with AROD

LASTLY: We are giving up Garcia and getting NO PITCHING in return.

I don't see how this trade makes the White Sox better - maybe more popular.

You're joking, right? 2-6 of Dye, ARod, Thome and Konerko (or 3-7). Find a leadoff hitter. The money is a wash because McCarthy takes over for Garcia in the rotation so that saves his 11M in addition to Crede's 8M that is almost a sure thing this off season with the numbers he put up.

Make sure the Yankees send along the money they got from Texas in the deal and this is a no brainer, though I'd prefer to trade Fields instead of Crede, I don't think the Yankees would go for it.

Palehose13
10-12-2006, 12:02 PM
:?: Make yourself clear by making a legitimate argument other than teal posts. How many rings does ARod have?? None - because he is a ****ing choker. His postseason numbers are some of the worst I've ever seen.

I'll take Crede and Uribe for 10 million a year combined over $ARod's 20 million anyday of the week if it means the team has more money to spend on pitching.

What I don't understand is people who think an All-world lineup like the 2006 Yankees are going to win a damn thing... because they won't.

PITCHING and DEFENSE! Not homeruns.

Just say NO to Arod.

Sorry, I'm not buying it and you lost me in your other post when you said that ARod was a "masher". Joe Crede is more of a masher than ARod and what this team was missing (other than pitching) last year was a guy who could go first to third...someone who can run the bases. Kinda like...um...Arod.

I LOVE Joe Crede, but Alex Rodriguez is one of the best players of this era. I don't see how you can pass up an opportunity to get him. Like others have said, McCarthy moves into the rotation and then you flip Uribe for bullpen help, Fields starts at third, ARod at SS, and then sign a FA bullpen arm. You have now shored up the pitching staff, significantly increased at SS, decreased at 3B (depending on how Fields performs), and now have McCarthy in the rotation (which all of you have been saying that you want).

*edit: Like VC, I'd rather give up Fields than Crede, but I don't think the Yankees would do it either.

chitown13
10-12-2006, 12:14 PM
If you can get A-Rod for Crede and Garcia, you do it. You have Brandon waiting in the wings which opens a slot for him and you get to insert a consistant MVP candidate into the lineup. Some might say we need pitching? Who doesn't? And how much more money would JR be willing to spend if they were to acquire A-Rod. Not only would he be a great pickup in my mind, but he would boost sales as a whole 200%. How many A-Rod Sox Jerseys do you think they would sell? Do you think EVERY game would be sold out? I do. A-Rod would bring more revenue....period. And I think you have to take that into mind when you think of how much you would have to pay to get him. And for all of those thinking that we would HAVE to start Fields at 3rd...why can't we keep A-Rod there and still play Uribe (if we keep him) for some games, and slowly introduce Fields and slide over A-Rod for a few. Sounds good to me.

The Immigrant
10-12-2006, 12:18 PM
The move comes down to this:

Crede and Uribe's offense vs. AROD and Fields. And the answer is ? - a little better with AROD and Fields ? Do we even know ?

Defense: We are taking a step back at both positions. That much is clear.

Money wise : much more costly - probably 4-7 mil. more per year with AROD

LASTLY: We are giving up Garcia and getting NO PITCHING in return.

I don't see how this trade makes the White Sox better - maybe more popular.

I don't feel strongly either way (frankly, I'd prefer if we focused on improving our bullpen), but one thing A-Rod does add is speed - which we sure could use to break up the 4-7 basepath clog in the middle of our lineup.

Sargeant79
10-12-2006, 12:20 PM
This is one of those trades that would be fairly even on paper. The Yankees address a need or two (starting pitching help and getting A-Rod out of NY) and the Sox get one of the game's best players in return. From the Sox standpoint, there are two problems:

1) You have no idea what you will get from Josh Fields next year. If he pulls a Brian Anderson in the first half, there is suddenly a big hole in the lineup. It also is going to be a defensive downgrade provided A-Rod is moved to SS...we won't know exactly how much of a downgrade until at least a few weeks into the season.

2) It doesn't address a need. It's a nice trade to make, but only if Kenny Williams also goes out to find a solid leadoff hitter and some bullpen help (possibly in the same deal...someone mentioned Scott Proctor's name earlier)

Playing Devil's Advocate, it could work out exceptionally well. One of the things people haven't mentioned much is that A-Rod is fast. KW and Ozzie have both stated that improving speed is an offseason goal. Couple that with 40 HR and 120 RBI likelihood, and you have a great addition. If Fields works out well, McCarthy steps into the rotation, and the leadoff spot is solved with a new left-fielder, I think 2007 will be a great year.

kidmccarthy
10-12-2006, 12:30 PM
I've said this several times. Here it is once more. Make this trade happen, and if Fields falters, Mackowiak plays a solid third base. That is his natural position, not center field. A platoon of Fields/Mack in the 9 hole is more than acceptable for the 07 world champions.

Flight #24
10-12-2006, 12:35 PM
I LOVE Joe Crede, but Alex Rodriguez is one of the best players of this era. I don't see how you can pass up an opportunity to get him. Like others have said, McCarthy moves into the rotation and then you flip Uribe for bullpen help, Fields starts at third, ARod at SS, and then sign a FA bullpen arm. You have now shored up the pitching staff, significantly increased at SS, decreased at 3B (depending on how Fields performs), and now have McCarthy in the rotation (which all of you have been saying that you want).


But but but.....more HRs is bad!!! ARod can't play SS better than Valentin! 2004! We need to have a WORSE offense so that we can say we win with pitching! And ARod sucks, don't throw his stats at me!

ARod is a gold glover at SS. There is a marginal, if any decline defensively at SS. ARod and PH13 are probably a better offensive duo than Crede & Uribe, and I think Fields can likely beat Uribe's performance (heck, Anderson wasn't that far off of his BA & OBP).

An SP is gone. It's only a question of if you get a leadoff hitter and continue with an offensive sinkhole at SS or if you get propects that won't help in '07 or if you get a guy like ARod. Bullpen help is on the way regardless (if Kenny has his way).

And all that neglects that likelihood that Alex returns to the form he displayed for years prior to '06, .300+ / 40+HR / 20+SB with gold glove SS D. He does that and this team is ridiculously improved. And when you factor in the off-field impact from having arguably the best player in the game on your team and a guy who's likely to end up in a small group discussed for best of all time.....no brainer.

You'd have 4 guys capable of hitting 40 HRs, and assuming you get a leadoff guy like Dave Roberts, you'd also have 3 guys capable of stealing 20+ bases (Roberts, ARod, Fields), and Iguchi who should be able to get 15. And the O would be anything but "HR or nothing" because ARod's a far superior average hitter than Crede and better at getting on base. And Fields almost has to be better than Uribe at those 2.

NardiWasHere
10-12-2006, 12:36 PM
:?: Make yourself clear by making a legitimate argument other than teal posts. How many rings does ARod have?? None - because he is a ****ing choker. His postseason numbers are some of the worst I've ever seen.

Don't go overboard, buddy. Why don't YOU make a legit argument.

Postseason numbers are some of the worst you have ever seen?

-Let me get this straight... you want a guy you know will come through in the postseason with a hit right? A guy who you can count on in the clutch... Like World Series MVP, Jermaine Dye?

Tip: don't make such outlandish claims. Next time, don't suggest that I improve my posts when you type garbage like that.

Postseason Stats:
Dye (9 series)- .259 avg .311 obp .395 slug 4 HR 16 rbi
ARod(9 series)- .280 avg .362 obp .485 slug 6 HR 16 rbi

Palehose13
10-12-2006, 12:43 PM
Postseason Stats:
Dye (9 series)- .259 avg .311 obp .395 slug 4 HR 16 rbi
ARod(9 series)- .280 avg .362 obp .485 slug 6 HR 16 rbi

Nice. I couldn't believe it when I read it. I was going to try and dig up ARod's post season stats, but figured that someone else would. Excellent comparison putting Dye's stats in there too. Unfortunately too many people believe everything they see/hear on ESPN.

CLR01
10-12-2006, 12:44 PM
Just read in the Cubune...that KW has a "thing" for A-Rod, and this trade could be on the horizon.

Personally, I don't want him here. I think Crede is worth a ton more runs than A-Rod. I am including his defense saving many runs of course. Freddy really seemed like he got in a groove last year toward the end.

What are your thoughts on this potential trade.

I suppose we will know in about 5 or 6 Wednesdays from now.



Looks like the Cubune was browsing WSI for stories, again.

oeo
10-12-2006, 12:51 PM
:?: Make yourself clear by making a legitimate argument other than teal posts. How many rings does ARod have?? None - because he is a ****ing choker. His postseason numbers are some of the worst I've ever seen.

Maybe in the last couple years, but overall?

He doesn't have a ring because the teams he has been on were not good enough to win a ring...not because he's a 'choker'.

Sargeant79
10-12-2006, 12:59 PM
I've said this several times. Here it is once more. Make this trade happen, and if Fields falters, Mackowiak plays a solid third base. That is his natural position, not center field. A platoon of Fields/Mack in the 9 hole is more than acceptable for the 07 world champions.

Good point. I could live with Mackowiak platooning at third base...just not in CF.

uscomiscular
10-12-2006, 01:20 PM
I didnt read through every post, so forgive me if someone mentioned this already, but ESPN 1000 was reporting rumors about a possible trade involving Freddy Garcia and Joe Crede for A-Rod. Whic would retool the infield to have A-Rod at Short and Josh Fields at 3rd

Flight #24
10-12-2006, 01:39 PM
Postseason Stats:
Dye (9 series)- .259 avg .311 obp .395 slug 4 HR 16 rbi
ARod(9 series)- .280 avg .362 obp .485 slug 6 HR 16 rbi

Just to add some color to this, some other notable chokers and their postseason stats....

Jim Thome (11 Series): .229BA / .326OBP / .516SLG
Paul Konerko (4 series): .224BA / .274OBP / .517SLG
Gary Sheffield (9 series): .248BA / .401OBP / .398SLG
Manny Ramirez (16 series): .257BA / .353OBP / .492SLG

And just for kicks:
Johan Santana (10 games): 1-3 record / 4.50ERA / 1.5 WHIP

Yeah, those guys all suck - who wants any of them!

likeawarlord
10-12-2006, 01:41 PM
:?: Make yourself clear by making a legitimate argument other than teal posts. How many rings does ARod have?? None - because he is a ****ing choker. His postseason numbers are some of the worst I've ever seen.

I'll take Crede and Uribe for 10 million a year combined over $ARod's 20 million anyday of the week if it means the team has more money to spend on pitching.

What I don't understand is people who think an All-world lineup like the 2006 Yankees are going to win a damn thing... because they won't.

PITCHING and DEFENSE! Not homeruns.

Just say NO to Arod.

thanks to the rangers, we'd only have to spend 16 million a year on arod, and if we dump garcia in the deal (as the tribune suggests), you're talking about trading garcia's 10 million dollar option and crede's huge arbitration payday for arod's 16 million dollar/year contract.

rodriguez has put up .280-.362-.485 in the playoffs for his career... and that's "some of the worst [you've] ever seen"? what??

furthermore, you call crede a "rising star third baseman" but he's barely 2 and a half years younger than arod. throw in his inability to take walks and you have a fantastic player who is nonetheless not quite up to arod's level. rodriguez is hardly a liability in the field, anyway. I, personally, would rather keep crede and maintain the teams dynamic as it is now, but i don't really understand how upset you are over this idea.

DaleJRFan
10-12-2006, 02:11 PM
rodriguez has put up .280-.362-.485 in the playoffs for his career... and that's "some of the worst [you've] ever seen"? what??



Cumulative Postseason Hitting Stats:
2005 - 2/15 .133 0 RBI
2006 - 1/14 .071 0 RBI

That's about as bad as it gets.

I'm not so much against the idea of ARod (though I have no idea why everyone seems to think that ARod is going to put the team over the top) but giving up Crede and sticking a rookie at 3B or the potential of platooning Mackowiak who is a butcher at 3B.

Ol' No. 2
10-12-2006, 02:24 PM
Just to add some color to this, some other notable chokers and their postseason stats....

Jim Thome (11 Series): .229BA / .326OBP / .516SLG
Paul Konerko (4 series): .224BA / .274OBP / .517SLG
Gary Sheffield (9 series): .248BA / .401OBP / .398SLG
Manny Ramirez (16 series): .257BA / .353OBP / .492SLG

And just for kicks:
Johan Santana (10 games): 1-3 record / 4.50ERA / 1.5 WHIP

Yeah, those guys all suck - who wants any of them!How many rings does Santana have? What a bum!!!:rolleyes:

MisterB
10-12-2006, 02:30 PM
Cumulative Postseason Hitting Stats:
2005 - 2/15 .133 0 RBI
2006 - 1/14 .071 0 RBI

That's about as bad as it gets.

I'm not so much against the idea of ARod (though I have no idea why everyone seems to think that ARod is going to put the team over the top) but giving up Crede and sticking a rookie at 3B or the potential of platooning Mackowiak who is a butcher at 3B.


Cumulative Postseason Hitting Stats:
2000 - 13/35 .371 7 RBI
2004 - 16/50 .320 8 RBI

Hey guys, playing the selective facts game is fun! :rolleyes:

Fenway
10-12-2006, 02:33 PM
boston.com looks at the Tribune rumor

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/

White Sox Randy
10-12-2006, 02:48 PM
What no one is mentioning here is why this stat-God, AROD, has NO rings, is getting run out of New York by a fan base that hates him, was batted 8th by Joe Torre in a key game down the stretch, had his Ranger team finish in last place every year that he was there and on and on......

Oh, and by the way he made 24 errors this season at 3rd base. What makes you people think that he can go back to playing shortstop, a position he hasn't played in 3 years and play it in his 30's like he did in his 20's ?

And, Fields is likely to be subpar defensively and offensively.

It's an unnecessary trade and once again doesn't help our pitching.

The differnce between 2005 and 2006, other than we scored a whole lot more runs to win 9 less games, is that the pitching was WAY OFF from the year before.

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to trade one of our starters for some young pitching prospects.

Such as Contreras to Cincy for Homer bailey and Ryan Freel ?

Buherle to St. Louis for Reyes and Wainwright ?

Garcia for some top pitching talent - these guys will be in demand.

Why would anyone think that adding AROD would bring us back to the WS ? - IT DIDN'T DO **** FOR THE YANKEES.

Oh yeah and AROD is owed $ 66 mil. Garcia is owed $ 10

havelj
10-12-2006, 02:51 PM
ARod has batted over .300 in 4 of his 7 post-season appearances and even in 2005 had a .381 OBP.

Solid.

Media making too much of this. He needs out of NY and into the hands of Ozzie.

samram
10-12-2006, 02:54 PM
Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to trade one of our starters for some young pitching prospects.

Such as Contreras to Cincy for Homer bailey and Ryan Freel ?

Buherle to St. Louis for Reyes and Wainwright ?

Garcia for some top pitching talent - these guys will be in demand.

Not a chance St. Louis does that. Wainwright isn't going anywhere.

Also, can we please stop acting as if ARod is a one man team and he is solely responsible for the Yankees' losing? Mussina blew a 3 run lead in game 2; Randy Johnson is old and got his ass kicked in game 3; Jaret Wright is a complete pile of crap. That's why they lost.

The no rings thing is just silly. Baseball is a team sport. Lebron doesn't have any rings, so if the Cavs call up Pax and say Lebron for Ben Wallace, Pax should say no?

mjmcend
10-12-2006, 02:59 PM
What no one is mentioning here is why this stat-God, AROD, has NO rings, is getting run out of New York by a fan base that hates him, was batted 8th by Joe Torre in a key game down the stretch, had his Ranger team finish in last place every year that he was there and on and on......

Oh, and by the way he made 24 errors this season at 3rd base. What makes you people think that he can go back to playing shortstop, a position he hasn't played in 3 years and play it in his 30's like he did in his 20's ?

And, Fields is likely to be subpar defensively and offensively.

It's an unnecessary trade and once again doesn't help our pitching.

The differnce between 2005 and 2006, other than we scored a whole lot more runs to win 9 less games, is that the pitching was WAY OFF from the year before.

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to trade one of our starters for some young pitching prospects.

Such as Contreras to Cincy for Homer bailey and Ryan Freel ?

Buherle to St. Louis for Reyes and Wainwright ?

Garcia for some top pitching talent - these guys will be in demand.

Why would anyone think that adding AROD would bring us back to the WS ? - IT DIDN'T DO **** FOR THE YANKEES.

Oh yeah and AROD is owed $ 66 mil. Garcia is owed $ 10

RINGS BABYYYY!!!!!!!!!! ITS ALL ABOUT RINGS!!!!!! COTTS HAS RINGS!!


Wow, you are just silly. Run out of town by the Yankee fans. Just like a certain pitcher of Cuban descent on our team. Torre was overreacting by batting ARod 8th, something a manager shoudl never do.


And your trade ideas sound as silly as if the Cardinals tried to trade us Jeff Weaver for McCarthy.

Flight #24
10-12-2006, 02:59 PM
The no rings thing is just silly. Baseball is a team sport. Lebron doesn't have any rings, so if the Cavs call up Pax and say Lebron for Ben Wallace, Pax should say no?

I'm reminded of the time Stacey King scored 2 points and said "I'll always remember this as the night Michael & I combined for 71".

There are tons of great players without rings. There are also tons of great players who over a 3-5 game stretch in the postseason slump, just like there are tons of chumps who dominated during short series but generally sucked (I'm looking at YOU Scott Brosius, Aaron Boone, and Jim Leyritz!). Yes, the Sox pitching was a big problem - but down the stretch, they lost a bunch of well-pitched, exceedingly winnable games, the kind of games that a guy like ARod would have helped them win.

Ol' No. 2
10-12-2006, 03:14 PM
I'm reminded of the time Stacey King scored 2 points and said "I'll always remember this as the night Michael & I combined for 71".

There are tons of great players without rings. There are also tons of great players who over a 3-5 game stretch in the postseason slump, just like there are tons of chumps who dominated during short series but generally sucked (I'm looking at YOU Scott Brosius, Aaron Boone, and Jim Leyritz!). Yes, the Sox pitching was a big problem - but down the stretch, they lost a bunch of well-pitched, exceedingly winnable games, the kind of games that a guy like ARod would have helped them win.Rings:
Willie Harris
Pokey Reese
Chad Fox

No rings:
Johan Santana
Albert Pujols
Alex Rodriguez

This has to be the stupidest argument against a player I've ever seen.

samram
10-12-2006, 03:20 PM
I'm reminded of the time Stacey King scored 2 points and said "I'll always remember this as the night Michael & I combined for 71".

There are tons of great players without rings. There are also tons of great players who over a 3-5 game stretch in the postseason slump, just like there are tons of chumps who dominated during short series but generally sucked (I'm looking at YOU Scott Brosius, Aaron Boone, and Jim Leyritz!). Yes, the Sox pitching was a big problem - but down the stretch, they lost a bunch of well-pitched, exceedingly winnable games, the kind of games that a guy like ARod would have helped them win.

Yep. And I'll make the point again- acquiring ARod does not necessarily preclude the Sox from adding BP help, which I think will happen no matter what because both KW and Ozzie want a better BP.

Also, there was a guy back in the 1960s who played for the Yankees and from 1961-1963, he went 6-46 (.130) in the WS. His name: Mickey Mantle. So ARod is hardly the only all-time great (and he will be an all-time great) who experienced hard times in the postseason.

spiffie
10-12-2006, 03:21 PM
Rings:
Willie Harris
Pokey Reese
Chad Fox

No rings:
Johan Santana
Albert Pujols
Alex Rodriguez

This has to be the stupidest argument against a player I've ever seen.
Ha. Next you're going to try and tell us that Charles Barkley was a better basketball player than Jack Haley. I mean, Jack Haley has a ring!

Jaffar
10-12-2006, 03:25 PM
Just to add some color to this, some other notable chokers and their postseason stats....

Jim Thome (11 Series): .229BA / .326OBP / .516SLG
Paul Konerko (4 series): .224BA / .274OBP / .517SLG
Gary Sheffield (9 series): .248BA / .401OBP / .398SLG
Manny Ramirez (16 series): .257BA / .353OBP / .492SLG

And just for kicks:
Johan Santana (10 games): 1-3 record / 4.50ERA / 1.5 WHIP

Yeah, those guys all suck - who wants any of them!

But those guys are clutch, AROD is not clutch! If we can't sign Crede to a multi-year deal then I have no problem trading him and getting Fields up here, especially when Crede may be at his highest in value. I was under the impression we only controled him through 2007 can anybody verify this or otherwise with a link?

spiffie
10-12-2006, 03:27 PM
Yep. And I'll make the point again- acquiring ARod does not necessarily preclude the Sox from adding BP help, which I think will happen no matter what because both KW and Ozzie want a better BP.

Also, there was a guy back in the 1960s who played for the Yankees and from 1961-1963, he went 6-46 (.130) in the WS. His name: Mickey Mantle. So ARod is hardly the only all-time great (and he will be an all-time great) who experienced hard times in the postseason.
Here's a nice little experiment. Both of these players had multiple postseason experiences. Here are a few of their years in the postseason:

Player 1:
000/000/000
000/000/000
200/200/600
118/250/176

Player 2:
500/600/500
500/400/500
417/417/500
250/400/375

Which guy is more clutch? I assume the Crede fans would of course want Player #2 right?

Ol' No. 2
10-12-2006, 03:27 PM
Yep. And I'll make the point again- acquiring ARod does not necessarily preclude the Sox from adding BP help, which I think will happen no matter what because both KW and Ozzie want a better BP.Actually, it becomes part of the plan to upgrade the BP. Either you trade Uribe for a middle reliever or you trade him for prospects and use the money to sign a FA, of which there is a bumper crop this year.

White Sox Randy
10-12-2006, 03:28 PM
Firstly, the trade of AROD to the Sox isn't happening. KW is not that dumb. Secondly, Ozzie doesn't like AROD.

Lastly, pay attention now, AROD has not bettered any team that he's been on:

Seattle got better after they traded him.

Texas stayed a last pace team with the great AROD.

Yankees got no better with AROD.

There are many far better deals out there that would help the White Sox more and undoubtedly KW knows this so I am not at all concerned that we would be trading for Arod.

Ol' No. 2
10-12-2006, 03:29 PM
But those guys are clutch, AROD is not clutch! If we can't sign Crede to a multi-year deal then I have no problem trading him and getting Fields up here, especially when Crede may be at his highest in value. I was under the impression we only controled him through 2007 can anybody verify this or otherwise with a link?Crede has a little over 4 years of service time. You need 6 to be a FA. He'll be eligible after the 2008 season. The numbers in the attached link were at the start of the 2006 season.

Inklay (http://www.mlb4u.com/teamcontract.php?team=Chicago%20White%20Sox)

itsnotrequired
10-12-2006, 03:34 PM
Firstly, the trade of AROD to the Sox isn't happening. KW is not that dumb. Secondly, Ozzie doesn't like AROD.

Lastly, pay attention now, AROD has not bettered any team that he's been on:

Seattle got better after they traded him.

Texas stayed a last pace team with the great AROD.

Yankees got no better with AROD.

There are many far better deals out there that would help the White Sox more and undoubtedly KW knows this so I am not at all concerned that we would be trading for Arod.

...and all those team's problems are related to ARod and ARod alone.

:rolleyes:

Jaffar
10-12-2006, 03:34 PM
Crede has a little over 4 years of service time. You need 6 to be a FA. He'll be eligible after the 2008 season. The numbers in the attached link were at the start of the 2006 season.

Inklay (http://www.mlb4u.com/teamcontract.php?team=Chicago%20White%20Sox)

Thank you. I'm still in the mindset of signing Crede longterm and trading Fields or vice versa but I guess KW has a little more time then I thought to do so.

oeo
10-12-2006, 03:35 PM
Firstly, the trade of AROD to the Sox isn't happening. KW is not that dumb. Secondly, Ozzie doesn't like AROD.

Lastly, pay attention now, AROD has not bettered any team that he's been on:

Seattle got better after they traded him.

Texas stayed a last pace team with the great AROD.

Yankees got no better with AROD.

There are many far better deals out there that would help the White Sox more and undoubtedly KW knows this so I am not at all concerned that we would be trading for Arod.

This argument sucks as well. The Rangers were paying so much to A-Rod that they couldn't put a competitive team on the field. A-Rod was still putting up MVP numbers...it definately wasn't his fault that the rest of his team sucked. This is not the case for the Sox, the Sox have one of the better teams in the AL...add A-Rod and it probably becomes the best.

And the Yankees, no matter how much offense they add, are never going to win another championship until they put competitive pitching on the mound. That's not A-Rod's fault...look to Steinbrenner and Cashman, they obviously still don't realize that they can't slug their way to a championship.