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View Full Version : A few realistic steps to get back to the promised land....


White Sox Randy
10-06-2006, 11:25 AM
1. Sign Dave Roberts - he should not be expensive.

2. Trade for Ryan Freel - he's signed thru 2007.

3. Trade for Miguel Cabrera. Not realistic ? The Marlins are not going to pay him $ 5-6mil. and up each year when their entire payroll is only $ 15 mil.
What if we offer Fields, Broadway and Anderson ? Is that enough ? If we had to, I would include another prospect - not Sweeney or Haeger.

This would give us Cabrera in left, Roberts/Freel (L/R) in Center. The other is the 4th OFer. Leadoff hitter solved with either one and speed off the bench.

Plus, Freel and Cabrera can both play 3B if Crede gets injured or traded.

Leave Sweeney in Charlotte one more year. Trade Pods and Mackowiack for young pitching / relief help.

Keep Crede, Uribe, Iguchi, Thome, Konerko, Cintron, Ozuna,Gload, A.J. and Stewart/ other backup.

4. Trade one of our starting pitchers for young pitching / relief help adding McCarthy to rotation.

Bullpen- keep Jenks, Mac, Thornton, Cotts and Haeger. Maybe send Haeger back for more experience in Charlotte. Add either one or two more quality arms in the pen.


How's this for a lineup ?:

Roberts / Freel
Cabrera
Dye
Thome
Konerko
Crede
Iguchi
A.J.
Uribe

oeo
10-06-2006, 11:55 AM
1. Sign Dave Roberts - he should not be expensive.

2. Trade for Ryan Freel - he's signed thru 2007.

3. Trade for Miguel Cabrera. Not realistic ? The Marlins are not going to pay him $ 5-6mil. and up each year when their entire payroll is only $ 15 mil.
What if we offer Fields, Broadway and Anderson ? Is that enough ? If we had to, I would include another prospect - not Sweeney or Haeger.

This would give us Cabrera in left, Roberts/Freel (L/R) in Center. The other is the 4th OFer. Leadoff hitter solved with either one and speed off the bench.

Plus, Freel and Cabrera can both play 3B if Crede gets injured or traded.

Leave Sweeney in Charlotte one more year. Trade Pods and Mackowiack for young pitching / relief help.

Keep Crede, Uribe, Iguchi, Thome, Konerko, Cintron, Ozuna,Gload, A.J. and Stewart/ other backup.

4. Trade one of our starting pitchers for young pitching / relief help adding McCarthy to rotation.

Bullpen- keep Jenks, Mac, Thornton, Cotts and Haeger. Maybe send Haeger back for more experience in Charlotte. Add either one or two more quality arms in the pen.


How's this for a lineup ?:

Roberts / Freel
Cabrera
Dye
Thome
Konerko
Crede
Iguchi
A.J.
Uribe

Uh...I'm not sure which White Sox team you were watching, but offense was not the problem. Our bullpen was one of the biggest problems, and that's what needs to be addressed first. All these drastic changes really are unrealistic; there's not just a surplus of prospects and money to go around.

Keep dreaming; there are not going to be drastic changes like this, I can almost guarantee it. Maybe a new LF and a couple of bullpen guys, but I'm sure that will be it.

chisoxmike
10-06-2006, 05:29 PM
Those guys still won't be able to offset the amount of runs our bullpen will give up.

cws05champ
10-07-2006, 12:49 PM
1. Sign Dave Roberts - he should not be expensive.

2. Trade for Ryan Freel - he's signed thru 2007.

3. Trade for Miguel Cabrera. Not realistic ? The Marlins are not going to pay him $ 5-6mil. and up each year when their entire payroll is only $ 15 mil.
What if we offer Fields, Broadway and Anderson ? Is that enough ? If we had to, I would include another prospect - not Sweeney or Haeger.

This would give us Cabrera in left, Roberts/Freel (L/R) in Center. The other is the 4th OFer. Leadoff hitter solved with either one and speed off the bench.

Plus, Freel and Cabrera can both play 3B if Crede gets injured or traded.

Leave Sweeney in Charlotte one more year. Trade Pods and Mackowiack for young pitching / relief help.

Keep Crede, Uribe, Iguchi, Thome, Konerko, Cintron, Ozuna,Gload, A.J. and Stewart/ other backup.

4. Trade one of our starting pitchers for young pitching / relief help adding McCarthy to rotation.

Bullpen- keep Jenks, Mac, Thornton, Cotts and Haeger. Maybe send Haeger back for more experience in Charlotte. Add either one or two more quality arms in the pen.


How's this for a lineup ?:

Roberts / Freel
Cabrera
Dye
Thome
Konerko
Crede
Iguchi
A.J.
Uribe

Because their payroll is only $15M, is the reason they can afford to keep him. Everyone on their roster is under their control on the cheap except for D-Train. If your building a young team, who better to build around than a young Stud like Cabrera?

likeawarlord
10-07-2006, 12:55 PM
3. Trade for Miguel Cabrera. Not realistic ? The Marlins are not going to pay him $ 5-6mil. and up each year when their entire payroll is only $ 15 mil.

their payroll's not going to be 15 mil forever.

Horsemaster Fred
10-13-2006, 02:01 PM
Merciless nights and the musk of Dusty B upon my neck, I grovel and grope for reason, but find only twiddly-wiggs and numblepuffs, hot and hoary and deep as newly driven snow… the road of a Horsemaster is paved with the sawdust and filings of one thousand broken bats and ten times as many dreams, and those who walk its cracked and weathered surface know what it is to feel helium power. With a quickness Dusty B’s earthbound plight is lapped up by the anteaters of destiny, their forked and searching tongues penetrating the anthills of Majer League Bassball, hapless workers ant running hither and thither, begging for death or the bottle. It is here we find ourselfs and here where Dusty B now enjoined can find quiet repose and ponderance as he twirls upon the spit, slowly roasting over an open flame, damned forever to the forbidden van. I don’t make this stuff up I only report it so if you mad be mad at God not me o.k.

Scottzilla
10-13-2006, 02:30 PM
Slow down horsemaster - there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

CashMan
10-13-2006, 03:07 PM
Scotty Pods WILL be a FA, how can you trade a FA? If you were a team would you give young pitching for him or Mack? I know I would'nt!

fquaye149
10-13-2006, 03:11 PM
Slow down horsemaster - there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

too much of a good thing

is a good thing

spiffie
10-13-2006, 03:11 PM
Slow down horsemaster - there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
You shut your mouth! There is never enough Horsemaster.

DaleJRFan
10-13-2006, 03:11 PM
Since this thread is titled "A few realistic steps..." I'll take my shots...

Trade Scott Podsednik for whatever you can get before arbitration hearings. At least get something back other than a class C draft pick.

Trade Vazquez or Garcia for Pitching prospects. Flip acquired prospects with a few of our own + Gload (they need a first baseman not named Travis Lee) to TB for Carl Crawford.

Sign Justin Speier. He's a top-tier reliever and will cost around $4m. That leaves the Sox bullpen with 4 top notch relief pitchers with "closer stuff". Ozzie wants nasty? Those four guys are nasty. Retain Cotts and bump Haeger into McCarthy's role.

Keep Chris Stewart up as backup catcher. Who cares if he hits 180... his defense is intangible and the way he handled McCarthy, I hope he could do the same with the rest of the starters.

Acquire a solid righthanded hitting reserve outfielder. Anybody got any ideas? I am drawing a blank.

Stick with Juan Uribe. He's young and has ridiculous talent. Let Brian Anderson play every day. He proved that he can hit MLB pitching.


Lineup:
LF - Crawford
2B - Iguchi
RF - Dye
DH - Thome
1B - Konerko
3B - Crede
C - AJ
SS - Uribe
CF - Anderson


Rotation:
Contreras
Garland
Buehrle
Vazquez/Garcia
McCarthy

Bullpen:
Jenks (CL)
Thornton SU)
MacDougal (SU)
Speier (MR)
Cotts (MR)
Haeger (LR)

Bench:
OF - ???
IF/OF - Ozuna
2B/SS - Cintron
3B/OF - Mackowiak
C - Stewart

spiffie
10-13-2006, 03:13 PM
1. Sign Dave Roberts - he should not be expensive.

2. Trade for Ryan Freel - he's signed thru 2007.

3. Trade for Miguel Cabrera. Not realistic ? The Marlins are not going to pay him $ 5-6mil. and up each year when their entire payroll is only $ 15 mil.
What if we offer Fields, Broadway and Anderson ? Is that enough ? If we had to, I would include another prospect - not Sweeney or Haeger.

This would give us Cabrera in left, Roberts/Freel (L/R) in Center. The other is the 4th OFer. Leadoff hitter solved with either one and speed off the bench.

Plus, Freel and Cabrera can both play 3B if Crede gets injured or traded.

Leave Sweeney in Charlotte one more year. Trade Pods and Mackowiack for young pitching / relief help.

Keep Crede, Uribe, Iguchi, Thome, Konerko, Cintron, Ozuna,Gload, A.J. and Stewart/ other backup.

4. Trade one of our starting pitchers for young pitching / relief help adding McCarthy to rotation.

Bullpen- keep Jenks, Mac, Thornton, Cotts and Haeger. Maybe send Haeger back for more experience in Charlotte. Add either one or two more quality arms in the pen.


How's this for a lineup ?:

Roberts / Freel
Cabrera
Dye
Thome
Konerko
Crede
Iguchi
A.J.
Uribe
Your statement from the Alex Rodriguez thread:
You guys that are touting a trade for ARod as a way to win back the division have flawed strategy.

1. We won in 2005 with great pitching and defense and average offense.

2. We came in 3rd place in 2006 because Minnesota and Detroit had great pitching and average offenses while we had a great offense and average pitching.

3. The way to win back the division, as Ozzie has stated over and over, is get our pitching back to the way it was.

4. Trading our surplus pitching for more offense instead of more pitching makes little sense as KW has stated.

itsnotrequired
10-13-2006, 03:13 PM
Scotty Pods WILL be a FA, how can you trade a FA? If you were a team would you give young pitching for him or Mack? I know I would'nt!

Pods only has 4 years of service. He is arbitration eligible, not a free agent.

DaleJRFan
10-13-2006, 03:13 PM
Scotty Pods WILL be a FA, how can you trade a FA? If you were a team would you give young pitching for him or Mack? I know I would'nt!

Scott Podsednik doesn't have enough MLB service time to be a free agent. He has a few more years of arbitration.

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2006, 03:14 PM
Since this thread is titled "A few realistic steps..." I'll take my shots...

Trade Scott Podsednik for whatever you can get before arbitration hearings. At least get something back other than a class C draft pick.

Trade Vazquez or Garcia for Pitching prospects. Flip acquired prospects with a few of our own + Gload (they need a first baseman not named Travis Lee) to TB for Carl Crawford.

Sign Justin Speier. He's a top-tier reliever and will cost around $4m. That leaves the Sox bullpen with 4 top notch relief pitchers with "closer stuff". Ozzie wants nasty? Those four guys are nasty. Retain Cotts and bump Haeger into McCarthy's role.

Keep Chris Stewart up as backup catcher. Who cares if he hits 180... his defense is intangible and the way he handled McCarthy, I hope he could do the same with the rest of the starters.

Acquire a solid righthanded hitting reserve outfielder. Anybody got any ideas? I am drawing a blank.

Stick with Juan Uribe. He's young and has ridiculous talent. Let Brian Anderson play every day. He proved that he can hit MLB pitching.


Lineup:
LF - Crawford
2B - Iguchi
RF - Dye
DH - Thome
1B - Konerko
3B - Crede
C - AJ
SS - Uribe
CF - Anderson


Rotation:
Contreras
Garland
Buehrle
Vazquez/Garcia
McCarthy

Bullpen:
Jenks (CL)
Thornton SU)
MacDougal (SU)
Speier (MR)
Cotts (MR)
Haeger (LR)

Bench:
OF - ???
IF/OF - Ozuna
2B/SS - Cintron
3B/OF - Mackowiak
C - StewartI'm sure Tampa Bay would jump at the chance to trade Carl Crawford for Ross Gload and some prospects. It's not as if anyone else would make them a better offer.:rolleyes:

spiffie
10-13-2006, 03:16 PM
Since this thread is titled "A few realistic steps..." I'll take my shots...

Trade Scott Podsednik for whatever you can get before arbitration hearings. At least get something back other than a class C draft pick.

Trade Vazquez or Garcia for Pitching prospects. Flip acquired prospects with a few of our own + Gload (they need a first baseman not named Travis Lee) to TB for Carl Crawford.

Sign Justin Speier. He's a top-tier reliever and will cost around $4m. That leaves the Sox bullpen with 4 top notch relief pitchers with "closer stuff". Ozzie wants nasty? Those four guys are nasty. Retain Cotts and bump Haeger into McCarthy's role.

Keep Chris Stewart up as backup catcher. Who cares if he hits 180... his defense is intangible and the way he handled McCarthy, I hope he could do the same with the rest of the starters.

Acquire a solid righthanded hitting reserve outfielder. Anybody got any ideas? I am drawing a blank.

Stick with Juan Uribe. He's young and has ridiculous talent. Let Brian Anderson play every day. He proved that he can hit MLB pitching.
I like everything except for this bold text. Exactly what has Uribe ever shown to indicate he will ever be anything more than a streaky, above-average fielding, below average hitting playerin the majors?

spiffie
10-13-2006, 03:18 PM
I'm sure Tampa Bay would jump at the chance to trade Carl Crawford for Ross Gload and some prospects. It's not as if anyone else would make them a better offer.:rolleyes:
Depends who the prospects are. If Garcia nets a real top-tier prospect that can be flipped, throw in 1 or 2 of our own that deal might appeal to them. If the idea though is Gload, Haeger, Lumsden and Liotta or something I doubt it. But if it's Sweeney, Fields and another high-ceiling guy, you might get that listened to.

whitesoxwilkes
10-13-2006, 03:24 PM
Slow down horsemaster - there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

Not to worry. We have him "reined in."

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2006, 03:25 PM
Depends who the prospects are. If Garcia nets a real top-tier prospect that can be flipped, throw in 1 or 2 of our own that deal might appeal to them. If the idea though is Gload, Haeger, Lumsden and Liotta or something I doubt it. But if it's Sweeney, Fields and another high-ceiling guy, you might get that listened to.Lots of teams want Carl Crawford. The question isn't what will TB accept. It's what will other teams be offering that counts, and I don't see him going for anything less than two top-notch major league ready players (one a pitcher), and probably a third minor-leaguer. I don't see Sweeney, Fields and someone else doing it.

itsnotrequired
10-13-2006, 03:28 PM
Not to worry. We have him "reined in."

Sometimes a horse needs to stretch its legs on the open range.

spiffie
10-13-2006, 03:30 PM
Lots of teams want Carl Crawford. The question isn't what will TB accept. It's what will other teams be offering that counts, and I don't see him going for anything less than two top-notch major league ready players (one a pitcher), and probably a third minor-leaguer. I don't see Sweeney, Fields and someone else doing it.
I guess the question is if we could get a top-level pitching prospect for Garcia.

Or, here's a thought (one not even I particularly think is realistic admittedly)...what if you get a middle-level 5th starter on the open market, offer Garcia, Broadway and Fields for Crawford?

Do you think there's a package we could realistically craft to get him from TB?

DaleJRFan
10-13-2006, 03:37 PM
I'm sure Tampa Bay would jump at the chance to trade Carl Crawford for Ross Gload and some prospects. It's not as if anyone else would make them a better offer.:rolleyes:

It depends on who the prospects would wind up being. If dealing Garcia nets good enough prospects to flip, then it is of non-issue.

Regardless, it has been reported (Take it for what its worth) that TB wants pitching prospects to deepen their pitching core and will deal Baldelli and Crawford to do so.

DaleJRFan
10-13-2006, 03:39 PM
I like everything except for this bold text. Exactly what has Uribe ever shown to indicate he will ever be anything more than a streaky, above-average fielding, below average hitting playerin the majors?

I say stick with Uribe because, there aren't a whole lot of power hitting shortstops with good speed and Uribe's defensive skills available who aren't named Tejada or $ARod. If Uribe is the worst player in the lineup, then that's probably a pretty capable team. There are other glaring issues with the Sox other than Uribe. When he's not swinging from his heels, he is a very good hitter with gap power. At the bottom of the lineup, that's not so bad.

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2006, 03:59 PM
I guess the question is if we could get a top-level pitching prospect for Garcia.

Or, here's a thought (one not even I particularly think is realistic admittedly)...what if you get a middle-level 5th starter on the open market, offer Garcia, Broadway and Fields for Crawford?

Do you think there's a package we could realistically craft to get him from TB?Wasn't there some discussion a few weeks ago about the possibility of a 3-way involving Garcia to get Carl Crawford? It's certainly possible, although it would take some digging to figure out who the 3rd team might be. I wouldn't think TB would take just "prospects". They'd have to be major league ready, and that's a difficulty. You don't often see teams trade major league ready pitching prospects for an established starter except mid-season.

DaleJRFan
10-13-2006, 04:04 PM
Wasn't there some discussion a few weeks ago about the possibility of a 3-way involving Garcia to get Carl Crawford? It's certainly possible, although it would take some digging to figure out who the 3rd team might be. I wouldn't think TB would take just "prospects". They'd have to be major league ready, and that's a difficulty. You don't often see teams trade major league ready pitching prospects for an established starter except mid-season.

Both the Hudson and Mulder trades (STL and ATL) from two years ago involved MLB ready pitchers duing the offseason. As long as the A's aren't involved, KW can get it done... :cool:

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2006, 04:11 PM
Both the Hudson and Mulder trades (STL and ATL) from two years ago involved MLB ready pitchers duing the offseason. As long as the A's aren't involved, KW can get it done... :cool:Anyone disagree that Oakland came out ahead on both those deals? So what's the object lesson here?

spiffie
10-13-2006, 04:24 PM
I say stick with Uribe because, there aren't a whole lot of power hitting shortstops with good speed and Uribe's defensive skills available who aren't named Tejada or $ARod. If Uribe is the worst player in the lineup, then that's probably a pretty capable team. There are other glaring issues with the Sox other than Uribe. When he's not swinging from his heels, he is a very good hitter with gap power. At the bottom of the lineup, that's not so bad.
If that is supposed to imply that Uribe has good speed, I'm not sure we're thinking of the same player. In the last 3 years he has 14 stolen bases and has been caught stealing 18 times. He's no Thome or Konerko, but he seems relatively slow for a SS actually.

Also, I'm not sure when he isn't swinging from his heels. That's pretty much how he gets his 16-23 HR per year. But as the years have gone by he has lost pretty much all semblance of plate discipline and basically regressed every season:

2004: 283/327/506 31 doubles, 6 triples, 23 HR, 9 SB, 32 BB
2005: 252/301/412 23 doubles, 3 triples, 16 HR, 4 SB, 34 BB
2006: 235/257/441 28 doubles, 2 triples, 21 HR, 1 SB, 13 BB

The 257 OBP is an almost comically low number. Also kind of scary, and a sign of decreasing plate discipline and that swinging from the heels:
2004: 142 H, 60 XBH (43%)
2005: 121 H, 42 XBH (35%)
2006: 109 H, 51 XBH (47%)

Juan is quickly becoming a true all-or-nothing hitter. Which is fine if he can get lucky enough to have a BABIP of over .300 like he did in 2004 (hence the gaudy numbers), but when that slips below the league average (likely due to continued swinging at bad pitches as his 13 walks this year would suggest) suddenly he becomes a sinkhole at the bottom of the order.

Also, every one of his fielding numbers was down this year. Juan is still an above-average fielder, but he was not the far and away best fielding SS that he was last year. Lots of mental errors, lots of poorly turned DP attempts. If 2004 Uribe's bat and 2005 Uribe's glove want to show up for 2007, then keep him by all means. Otherwise, I can't help but think we can do better.

spiffie
10-13-2006, 04:24 PM
Anyone disagree that Oakland came out ahead on both those deals? So what's the object lesson here?
That Billy Beane is a genius? *ducks*

DaleJRFan
10-13-2006, 04:25 PM
Anyone disagree that Oakland came out ahead on both those deals? So what's the object lesson here?

:?: Billy Beane is an ass??? Tim Hudson sucks?

DaleJRFan
10-13-2006, 04:27 PM
If that is supposed to imply that Uribe has good speed, I'm not sure we're thinking of the same player. In the last 3 years he has 14 stolen bases and has been caught stealing 18 times. He's no Thome or Konerko, but he seems relatively slow for a SS actually.

Also, I'm not sure when he isn't swinging from his heels. That's pretty much how he gets his 16-23 HR per year. But as the years have gone by he has lost pretty much all semblance of plate discipline and basically regressed every season:

2004: 283/327/506 31 doubles, 6 triples, 23 HR, 9 SB, 32 BB
2005: 252/301/412 23 doubles, 3 triples, 16 HR, 4 SB, 34 BB
2006: 235/257/441 28 doubles, 2 triples, 21 HR, 1 SB, 13 BB

The 257 OBP is an almost comically low number. Also kind of scary, and a sign of decreasing plate discipline and that swinging from the heels:
2004: 142 H, 60 XBH (43%)
2005: 121 H, 42 XBH (35%)
2006: 109 H, 51 XBH (47%)

Juan is quickly becoming a true all-or-nothing hitter. Which is fine if he can get lucky enough to have a BABIP of over .300 like he did in 2004 (hence the gaudy numbers), but when that slips below the league average (likely due to continued swinging at bad pitches as his 13 walks this year would suggest) suddenly he becomes a sinkhole at the bottom of the order.

Also, every one of his fielding numbers was down this year. Juan is still an above-average fielder, but he was not the far and away best fielding SS that he was last year. Lots of mental errors, lots of poorly turned DP attempts. If 2004 Uribe's bat and 2005 Uribe's glove want to show up for 2007, then keep him by all means. Otherwise, I can't help but think we can do better.

You put a lot of time into that post... :cool:

All I'm saying (in the other posts..) is that there are bigger priorities. Bullpen help, leadoff hitter, etc.

I'm not going to cry if Uribe gets dealt as I am not a FOJU, but I won't be upset if he stays, assuming upgrades are made around him.

mjmcend
10-13-2006, 04:27 PM
If that is supposed to imply that Uribe has good speed, I'm not sure we're thinking of the same player. In the last 3 years he has 14 stolen bases and has been caught stealing 18 times. He's no Thome or Konerko, but he seems relatively slow for a SS actually.

Also, I'm not sure when he isn't swinging from his heels. That's pretty much how he gets his 16-23 HR per year. But as the years have gone by he has lost pretty much all semblance of plate discipline and basically regressed every season:

2004: 283/327/506 31 doubles, 6 triples, 23 HR, 9 SB, 32 BB
2005: 252/301/412 23 doubles, 3 triples, 16 HR, 4 SB, 34 BB
2006: 235/257/441 28 doubles, 2 triples, 21 HR, 1 SB, 13 BB

The 257 OBP is an almost comically low number. Also kind of scary, and a sign of decreasing plate discipline and that swinging from the heels:
2004: 142 H, 60 XBH (43%)
2005: 121 H, 42 XBH (35%)
2006: 109 H, 51 XBH (47%)

Juan is quickly becoming a true all-or-nothing hitter. Which is fine if he can get lucky enough to have a BABIP of over .300 like he did in 2004 (hence the gaudy numbers), but when that slips below the league average (likely due to continued swinging at bad pitches as his 13 walks this year would suggest) suddenly he becomes a sinkhole at the bottom of the order.

Also, every one of his fielding numbers was down this year. Juan is still an above-average fielder, but he was not the far and away best fielding SS that he was last year. Lots of mental errors, lots of poorly turned DP attempts. If 2004 Uribe's bat and 2005 Uribe's glove want to show up for 2007, then keep him by all means. Otherwise, I can't help but think we can do better.

Your logic has no place here.

ITS ALL ABOUT RINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

spiffie
10-13-2006, 04:38 PM
You put a lot of time into that post... :cool:

All I'm saying (in the other posts..) is that there are bigger priorities. Bullpen help, leadoff hitter, etc.

I'm not going to cry if Uribe gets dealt as I am not a FOJU, but I won't be upset if he stays, assuming upgrades are made around him.
Fair enough, and I don't really disagree too strongly with that. If Juan is the weakest link in the order, and we assume 2006 was a slightly worse than usual year for him, he's okay. It just hurt because 2 or 3 times per game the hitting order went Uribe, Anderson, Podsednik, which was just a murderer's row. Murdering our hopes of doing anything offensively at that point that is.

DaleJRFan
10-13-2006, 04:41 PM
Fair enough, and I don't really disagree too strongly with that. If Juan is the weakest link in the order, and we assume 2006 was a slightly worse than usual year for him, he's okay. It just hurt because 2 or 3 times per game the hitting order went Uribe, Anderson, Podsednik, which was just a murderer's row. Murdering our hopes of doing anything offensively at that point that is.

I forgot which game it was... it was during interleague play this season when the Sox were teeing off against whoever the pitcher was that game... seven or eight rope hits in a row and then Uribe came up swinging wildly at the first two pitches... you could almost see his thought process in a bubble over his head and it was a pretty damn funny sight.

Frater Perdurabo
10-13-2006, 05:20 PM
Other than playing better defense, couldn't the argument be made that Uribe is developing into a right-handed-only Jose Valentin?

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2006, 05:35 PM
Other than playing better defense, couldn't the argument be made that Uribe is developing into a right-handed-only Jose Valentin?At the plate, I'd rather have Valentin. By a wide margin.

gbergman
10-13-2006, 06:27 PM
Not to worry. We have him "reined in."

Is it a moderaor ban, where a mod has to approve of what is posted before hand?

I had one of those for a couple weeks back in May.

Palehose13
10-13-2006, 06:35 PM
Is it a moderaor ban, where a mod has to approve of what is posted before hand?

I had one of those for a couple weeks back in May.

No, it just means that your posts are moderated and need to be approved before they go on the board.

Whitesox4ever
10-13-2006, 07:06 PM
My ideas for next year team would be

1. to signed Jamie Walker

2. Trade Vazquez & Uribe to Houston for Brad Lidge & Willie Tavares

3. trade N Cotts, L Broadway and J Owens to Texas for M Young

4. trade Joe Crede to the Angels for Chone Figgins and Scott Shields

5 trade Pods to AZ for J Estrada to be our back up C and 1B

Here would be my team

1 C Figgins 3B
2 M Young SS
3 J Dye RF
4 J Thome DH
5 P Konerko 1B
6 AJ Pierzynski C
7 T Iguchi 2B
8 W Tavares LF
9 B Anderson Cf

Bench- Mackowiak If-OF, Sweeney OF, Ozuna Utily, Fields IF-OF and Estrada C

SP Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras and Mc Carthy

Bullpen- Walker LR, Shields RR, Lidge RR, Macdougal RR Thornton LR Jenks RR

TheOldRoman
10-13-2006, 07:46 PM
Uh...I'm not sure which White Sox team you were watching, but offense was not the problem.
I'm not sure which White Sox team you were watching, but our offense was a huge problem. Stats lie. We couldn't hit lefties, junkballers, career journeymen, or ****ty minor league callups. Scoring 10 runs means jack **** if you only score 4 over the next two games. We lost countless games this year because our offense put up 2 or 3 runs against a horrible pitcher on a day when he didn't have particularly good control. They all swing for the fences, and are all to eager to get themselves out. The Sox chase horrible pitches more than any team I have seen. Our offense was not acceptable this year, and it needs to be improved.

fquaye149
10-13-2006, 07:50 PM
I'm not sure which White Sox team you were watching, but our offense was a huge problem. Stats lie. We couldn't hit lefties, junkballers, career journeymen, or ****ty minor league callups. Scoring 10 runs means jack **** if you only score 4 over the next two games. We lost countless games this year because our offense put up 2 or 3 runs against a horrible pitcher on a day when he didn't have particularly good control. They all swing for the fences, and are all to eager to get themselves out. The Sox chase horrible pitches more than any team I have seen. Our offense was not acceptable this year, and it needs to be improved.

There's a middle ground. Our offense was good. Our offense could be better.

Our pitching was horrible. Our pitching must be better.

It's hard to improve pitching on the market. Notice the 2005 White Sox---one of our starters came off the market. Everyone else just stepped their game up.

Look at the Twins---none of those pitchers came off the market.

Look at the Tigers---one of those pitchers came from off the market.

It is possible to improve our offense (and defense) through trades and free agent signings. It's a lot less likely we'll improve our pitching that way.

TheOldRoman
10-13-2006, 07:56 PM
There's a middle ground. Our offense was good. Our offense could be better.

Our pitching was horrible. Our pitching must be better.

It's hard to improve pitching on the market. Notice the 2005 White Sox---one of our starters came off the market. Everyone else just stepped their game up.

Look at the Twins---none of those pitchers came off the market.

Look at the Tigers---one of those pitchers came from off the market.

It is possible to improve our offense (and defense) through trades and free agent signings. It's a lot less likely we'll improve our pitching that way.
No, the offense was not good. It was great part of the time, and absolutely horrible part of the time. That is not acceptable. Our offense needs to be greatly improved if the Sox are going to win next year. Nobody is arguing that our pitching was good, but it seems like people forget just how many times our vaunted lineup embarrassed themselves and overswung their way to 2 runs and a loss against crappy pitching. We can't drop as many games as we have against lefties, and we can't lose as many games against ****ty pitching.

fquaye149
10-13-2006, 07:59 PM
No, the offense was not good. It was great part of the time, and absolutely horrible part of the time. That is not acceptable. Our offense needs to be greatly improved if the Sox are going to win next year. Nobody is arguing that our pitching was good, but it seems like people forget just how many times our vaunted lineup embarrassed themselves and overswung their way to 2 runs and a loss against crappy pitching. We can't drop as many games as we have against lefties, and we can't lose as many games against ****ty pitching.

Almost all offenses disappear from time to time. Just the way it goes in baseball. I was as frustrated as you were when our offense played corpseball, but that's the way it goes. The team had the same problems in 2005 no matter how much we talk about fundamentals, moving runners over, getting risp home.

Frater Perdurabo
10-13-2006, 10:45 PM
At the plate, I'd rather have Valentin. By a wide margin.

It's amazing that Uribe's poor performance at the plate makes us long for Valentin.

If there was just a way to combine Valentin's bat with Uribe's fielding... :redface:

fquaye149
10-13-2006, 10:46 PM
It's amazing that Uribe's poor performance at the plate makes us long for Valentin.

If there was just a way to combine Valentin's bat with Uribe's fielding... :redface:

How about, Valentin's bad against Lefties, Mackowiack's bat against Righties and Uribe's fielding?

Ol' No. 2
10-14-2006, 02:07 AM
My ideas for next year team would be

1. to signed Jamie Walker

2. Trade Vazquez & Uribe to Houston for Brad Lidge & Willie Tavares

3. trade N Cotts, L Broadway and J Owens to Texas for M Young

4. trade Joe Crede to the Angels for Chone Figgins and Scott Shields

5 trade Pods to AZ for J Estrada to be our back up C and 1B

Here would be my team

1 C Figgins 3B
2 M Young SS
3 J Dye RF
4 J Thome DH
5 P Konerko 1B
6 AJ Pierzynski C
7 T Iguchi 2B
8 W Tavares LF
9 B Anderson Cf

Bench- Mackowiak If-OF, Sweeney OF, Ozuna Utily, Fields IF-OF and Estrada C

SP Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras and Mc Carthy

Bullpen- Walker LR, Shields RR, Lidge RR, Macdougal RR Thornton LR Jenks RRYou left out one:

6 trade Sean Tracey and a bag of balls to Minnesota for Johan Santana.