PDA

View Full Version : Why we did not make the playoffs-Frank's shoes


DumpJerry
10-04-2006, 01:28 PM
The reason why we did not make the playoffs this year? Big Frank's shoes were not in the clubhouse. What is so special about Hurt's shoes? He has "DBTH" written on them. DBTH=Don't Believe The Hype.

For most of the season there was a "we'll make the playoffs, then we can get serious" attitude on the team. If they ignored the hype (The White Sox cannot miss the playoffs), they would have won those extra 6 games or so.

LuvSox
10-04-2006, 01:32 PM
We didn't make the playoffs because the bullpen needed a set of Frank's big shoes up their ass.

Scottzilla
10-04-2006, 01:32 PM
id rather have his second half than his shoes

skottyj242
10-04-2006, 01:55 PM
Scotty Pods needs glasses.

cheeses_h_rice
10-04-2006, 01:56 PM
Sure it wasn't the chick-scoping bench rearing its ugly head again?

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 01:59 PM
I understand why KW made his moves, but in retrospect I would've much rather had Frank on this team than Thome.

Britt Burns
10-04-2006, 02:03 PM
And I thought it was because of the pitching!

Martinigirl
10-04-2006, 02:05 PM
Honestly, I liked Frank as a player while he was here, but I am truly sick of hearing about him since he left. I am sick of him talking about the Sox, and the Sox management and fans talking about him.

I am glad he is doing well, and that he helped beat the Twins, but he, nor his footwear, have anything to do with why we are not playing right now. We didn't need more homeruns, we needed pitching.

And for all people that are sick of the constant "I miss Aaron, if only he played center for us this year." I am one of those that feels that way about the constant Frank posts. I am thankful for everything he did for us in the past, but he is gone and I am fine with Thome in his old place.

skottyj242
10-04-2006, 02:06 PM
Sure it wasn't the chick-scoping bench rearing its ugly head again?

I think it sucks that the last Saturday games in Minnesota wasn't on tv.

SOXintheBURGH
10-04-2006, 02:13 PM
Maybe now Mark wants to go play in Oakland with Frank instead of St. Louis.

Mark is a nice guy, now he should text message KW and tell him to bring back wet tarp sliding because that is why we didn't make the playoffs (no teal).

There it is.

fusillirob1983
10-04-2006, 02:48 PM
Honestly, I liked Frank as a player while he was here, but I am truly sick of hearing about him since he left. I am sick of him talking about the Sox, and the Sox management and fans talking about him.

I am glad he is doing well, and that he helped beat the Twins, but he, nor his footwear, have anything to do with why we are not playing right now. We didn't need more homeruns, we needed pitching.

And for all people that are sick of the constant "I miss Aaron, if only he played center for us this year." I am one of those that feels that way about the constant Frank posts. I am thankful for everything he did for us in the past, but he is gone and I am fine with Thome in his old place.

Avoiding threads with Frank's name in it removes that problem.

soxfanatlanta
10-04-2006, 02:52 PM
We didn't make the playoffs because the bullpen needed a set of Frank's big shoes up their ass.


Good one!

:kneeslap:

ilsox7
10-04-2006, 02:52 PM
I understand why KW made his moves, but in retrospect I would've much rather had Frank on this team than Thome.

You'd take Frank and no Konerko vs. Thome and Konerko? Yikes, I know this debate has been done numerous times over, but it still baffles me that people could possibly take option 1 there. Oh well.

Frontman
10-04-2006, 03:02 PM
We didn't make the playoffs since two teams in our division did better than us. Period.

Next.

Front

ajismyhero
10-04-2006, 03:03 PM
Honestly, I liked Frank as a player while he was here, but I am truly sick of hearing about him since he left. I am sick of him talking about the Sox, and the Sox management and fans talking about him.

I am glad he is doing well, and that he helped beat the Twins, but he, nor his footwear, have anything to do with why we are not playing right now. We didn't need more homeruns, we needed pitching.

And for all people that are sick of the constant "I miss Aaron, if only he played center for us this year." I am one of those that feels that way about the constant Frank posts. I am thankful for everything he did for us in the past, but he is gone and I am fine with Thome in his old place.

I agree with this post 100%. Congratulations, Frank, i'm glad you're doing good things in Oakland, but does anyone think he would have played that well with us? The KW/Big Frank controversey gave Frank a reason to prove himself, it fired him up. Had he just stayed in our clubhouse, I don't think he would have performed that well.

MarySwiss
10-04-2006, 03:08 PM
I think Frank should send KW a thank-you note. There's no doubt in my mind that much of his success this year is due to a certain "they didn't want me; well, I'll show them" mindset on his part.

jenn2080
10-04-2006, 03:08 PM
Honestly, I liked Frank as a player while he was here, but I am truly sick of hearing about him since he left. I am sick of him talking about the Sox, and the Sox management and fans talking about him.

I am glad he is doing well, and that he helped beat the Twins, but he, nor his footwear, have anything to do with why we are not playing right now. We didn't need more homeruns, we needed pitching.

And for all people that are sick of the constant "I miss Aaron, if only he played center for us this year." I am one of those that feels that way about the constant Frank posts. I am thankful for everything he did for us in the past, but he is gone and I am fine with Thome in his old place.

I agree with this post 100%. Congratulations, Frank, i'm glad you're doing good things in Oakland, but does anyone think he would have played that well with us? The KW/Big Frank controversey gave Frank a reason to prove himself, it fired him up. Had he just stayed in our clubhouse, I don't think he would have performed that well.


The If we had Frank is about as gross as the Rowand love fest. :rolleyes: I love Frank and I am happy for him that he is doing so well. He is not the reason we did not make the playoffs and neither is Rowand. For the 5000 time. The reason we did not make the playoffs is because we had ****ty starting pitching through the majority of the 2nd half. The bullpen other then Thorton MacDugal and Jenks was about as shaky as the American Eagle and we lacked clutch hitting. We also were not very aggressive on the bases and when the other team had a runner on whether through single or walk it was more then likely turning into a double since we didn't seem to care about runners on.

soxfan13
10-04-2006, 03:56 PM
Honestly, I liked Frank as a player while he was here, but I am truly sick of hearing about him since he left. I am sick of him talking about the Sox, and the Sox management and fans talking about him.

I am glad he is doing well, and that he helped beat the Twins, but he, nor his footwear, have anything to do with why we are not playing right now. We didn't need more homeruns, we needed pitching.

And for all people that are sick of the constant "I miss Aaron, if only he played center for us this year." I am one of those that feels that way about the constant Frank posts. I am thankful for everything he did for us in the past, but he is gone and I am fine with Thome in his old place.

Avoiding threads with Frank's name in it removes that problem.

Bravo martini!!! and the threads are kind of hard to avoid when they are every other one. cant we just make one super huge frank thomas thread instead of starting a thread every time he blinks

batmanZoSo
10-04-2006, 04:01 PM
Bravo martini!!! and the threads are kind of hard to avoid when they are every other one. cant we just make one super huge frank thomas thread instead of starting a thread every time he blinks

Super huge threads suck.

Sorry, but I think the greatest Sox player ever is held to a different standard than Rowand or any other ex-player. I don't like to say it, and it's been said already, but avoid the thread.

edit: and I agreed that his time here had run its course, and maintain that Thome was the right decision for this team.

jenn2080
10-04-2006, 04:02 PM
Bravo martini!!! and the threads are kind of hard to avoid when they are every other one. cant we just make one super huge frank thomas thread instead of starting a thread every time he blinks


maybe we can start a Perma Frank and Aaron lovefest thread. That way when everyone misses them they can just go there.

soxfan13
10-04-2006, 04:03 PM
maybe we can start a Perma Frank and Aaron lovefest thread. That way when everyone misses them they can just go there.


very good id go for it!!!

SOXintheBURGH
10-04-2006, 04:15 PM
maybe we can start a Perma Frank and Aaron lovefest thread. That way when everyone misses them they can just go there.

Can we add Esteban after how he pitched today?

RetireWoodys28
10-04-2006, 04:57 PM
If the bullpen had managed to salvage any (or all) of the 3 leads we had in Oakland last month, the season would have had a far different feel to it. The Sox would have been hosting Detroit within a game or so of the lead. Instead, the Sox blew 3 leads and got swept by the A's. In two of those games, Thomas HRs killed the Sox.

There's your "if only we had Frank" line, if you must have one. I love Frank and I'm enjoying watching the A's do well (so far) in the post-season. But the notion that this year's team would have been stronger overall with Thomas rather than Thome borders on baseball gibberish.

TDog
10-04-2006, 05:03 PM
The If we had Frank is about as gross as the Rowand love fest. :rolleyes: I love Frank and I am happy for him that he is doing so well. He is not the reason we did not make the playoffs and neither is Rowand. For the 5000 time. The reason we did not make the playoffs is because we had ****ty starting pitching through the majority of the 2nd half. The bullpen other then Thorton MacDugal and Jenks was about as shaky as the American Eagle and we lacked clutch hitting. We also were not very aggressive on the bases and when the other team had a runner on whether through single or walk it was more then likely turning into a double since we didn't seem to care about runners on.

Well put. Now taking that premise a step further, if Frank Thomas had stayed with the Sox, the Sox would have missed the playoffs. I don't know that Thomas would have had such a good year, but even if he did, it would have been a return to the way things used to be (they pretty much were anyway) and with Thomas as the central figure in the lineup, his continued presence would have been a matter of great debate.

The way things ended up, the people who love Frank Thomas have had something to cheer for this season -- even in games when he A's were beating the Sox.

DumpJerry
10-04-2006, 05:35 PM
I think it sucks that the last Saturday games in Minnesota wasn't on tv.
It was on Comcast. Television.

Hangar18
10-04-2006, 05:41 PM
Scotty Pods needs glasses.


That .... or the guy was drunk out there. Completely clueless in LF and at the plate at times this year.

Hangar18
10-04-2006, 05:43 PM
The reason why we did not make the playoffs this year? Big Frank's shoes were not in the clubhouse. What is so special about Hurt's shoes? He has "DBTH" written on them. DBTH=Don't Believe The Hype.

For most of the season there was a "we'll make the playoffs, then we can get serious" attitude on the team. If they ignored the hype (The White Sox cannot miss the playoffs), they would have won those extra 6 games or so.


Dont forget, there was one other person in that clubhouse "keeping things real". Carl Everett.

Hangar18
10-04-2006, 05:45 PM
Super huge threads suck.

Sorry, but I think the greatest Sox player ever is held to a different standard than Rowand or any other ex-player. I don't like to say it, and it's been said already, but avoid the thread.

edit: and I agreed that his time here had run its course, and maintain that Thome was the right decision for this team.


never quite understood why someone would venture into a thread, KNOWING whats being discussed (thread title being the major clue), and then be angry about it and say the thread sucks?

TheOldRoman
10-04-2006, 05:45 PM
I don't know whether Frank's shoes would have made a difference, but the Sox were definitely guilty of playing lackadaisical, uninspired play. They breezed through the whole season with the "we will turn it on any day now" attitude.
Our bullpen was bad this year, but I think the biggest problem was our offense. The "best offense in baseball" was horrible in the second half. We got many losses because our hitters went to sleep against horrible pitching, chasing everything outside, and refusing to take walks. You can list how many games our bullpen blew, but it would be an even nastier list if you gave the times the offense grossly underperformed against horrible pitchers, rookie call-ups, lefthanders, and so on. If our pitcher gives up 4 runs against the Royals (a pretty good hitting team), and gets the loss because our brilliant offense overswings their way to 2 runs against a pitcher with an era over 8, that loss is 100% on the offense. Guys got lazy, guys swung for the fences more, and the season went down the drain.

TDog
10-04-2006, 05:46 PM
Dont forget, there was one other person in that clubhouse "keeping things real". Carl Everett.


Refresh my memory. Who signed Carl Everett after he was released by the last place Seattle Mariners on Aug. 7?

goon
10-04-2006, 05:58 PM
if we hadn't traded for thome, the sox would have been even further out of the playoffs. doesn't anyone remember what Frank was hitting for the first month and a half of the season when thome was essentially carrying this team? i believe it was about .174 with 6 home runs.

not only that, i feel more comfortable going into next season with thome then thomas considering Frank can barely walk. granted, i'm glad he's doing well, but i have trouble believing he will replicate the success of this season in 2007.

frank is doing well because he is motivated that the sox organization "gave up on him" :rolleyes:. do you really think he would have had 39 home runs had he stayed in chicago?

DumpJerry
10-04-2006, 06:35 PM
Super huge threads suck.

Sorry, but I think the greatest Sox player ever is held to a different standard than Rowand or any other ex-player. I don't like to say it, and it's been said already, but avoid the thread.

edit: and I agreed that his time here had run its course, and maintain that Thome was the right decision for this team.

never quite understood why someone would venture into a thread, KNOWING whats being discussed (thread title being the major clue), and then be angry about it and say the thread sucks?
Come on people, re-read my original posting. The purpose of the thread is not re-hash the merits of how Frank was handled, but rather the fact that the Sox were believing the hype that they would make the playoffs.

Domeshot17
10-04-2006, 06:41 PM
(1) it was said well during the A's game: OF COURSE HE WAS GOING TO BE RUSTY EARLY. He did miss almost 2 years.

(2) In the 2nd half, Thomas carried the A's and burried the White Sox, Thome was still trying to pull the ball against the shift during this time, wasnt hitting dingers, and when he did hit them, they seemed to matter the least, Thome really laid an egg down the stretch.

(3) In the end it wouldnt have made a difference. The entire team was bad. Even Dye really cooled off when it mattered most. No one was willing to step up and put the team on their back, not one player stepped up down the stretch. Ozzie didnt make any changes or shake anything up except letting the triple A team play and do nothing.

The bottom line is we choked. We choked for an entire half of season. Players were content all year, and they bought into their own hype. They started making excuses, it all snowballed. Its a shame because as excited as I already am for next year, this run is over. I could care less about 90 wins, we could have 90 wins or 9, and in the end all it means is we are watching the tigers and twins in october. It wasnt a good season, because the most talented team in baseball isnt in the playoffs. It was a bad season, a disappointing one. Maybe this butt kicking will make them hungry next year and want it more. Whatever they do, they for sure need a club house presence reminding them they arent as good as they think they are

Craig Grebeck
10-04-2006, 06:43 PM
That .... or the guy was drunk out there. Completely clueless in LF and at the plate at times this year.
That or he is a very poor major league baseball player.

Martinigirl
10-04-2006, 06:47 PM
Avoiding threads with Frank's name in it removes that problem.


never quite understood why someone would venture into a thread, KNOWING whats being discussed (thread title being the major clue), and then be angry about it and say the thread sucks?


When a thread title states that footwear would have saved our season, I had to look, irregardless of the owner of the shoes. Had it been titled "I love Frank Thomas! He hung the moon" I wouldn't have bothered.

Scottzilla
10-04-2006, 07:22 PM
I am so tired of other peoples opinions. you should all stop whining unless I happen to agree with you. I dont even want you to discuss things i dont agree with even if im not there.

are we not allowed to talk about how fisk was let go either? i think kw let personal feelings affect his judgment. why does it have to be frank or paulie? money? too much money? whered that money go? Vasquez??

ilsox7
10-04-2006, 07:25 PM
I am so tired of other peoples opinions. you should all stop whining unless I happen to agree with you. I dont even want you to discuss things i dont agree with even if im not there.

why does it have to be frank or paulie?

PK is on record saying the single biggest thing the Sox did to get him to re-sign was trade for Thome. Without Thome, it's a fairly safe assumption to make that PK goes to the Angels.

jenn2080
10-04-2006, 07:36 PM
That or he is a very poor major league baseball player.


I would not go as far as saying poor, but a little below average this year. Glasses is just absurd.

Scottzilla
10-04-2006, 07:44 PM
I heard that and at the time it didnt register to me as it is now. sounds like paulie was playing me or frank.

DumpJerry
10-04-2006, 07:50 PM
The Sox believed the hype! That made them complacent and this is why we're watching other teams in the playoffs! Frank had it right all along:

DBTH!

It is not an issue of this player acquisition or some other player's skill set. They believed the hype.

The Dude
10-04-2006, 08:06 PM
The reason why we did not make the playoffs this year? Big Frank's shoes were not in the clubhouse. What is so special about Hurt's shoes? He has "DBTH" written on them. DBTH=Don't Believe The Hype.

For most of the season there was a "we'll make the playoffs, then we can get serious" attitude on the team. If they ignored the hype (The White Sox cannot miss the playoffs), they would have won those extra 6 games or so.

:tealpolice:

The Dude
10-04-2006, 08:08 PM
We didn't make the playoffs because the bullpen needed a set of Frank's big shoes up their ass.

Now that I can agree on!

But seriously guys, Franks huge shoes would've stopped our pitchers from giving up gopher balls all season long and our leadoff man to do absolutely **** as well.

Come on Dump, you can't be literally serious here!:o:

Chips
10-04-2006, 08:11 PM
Scotty Pods needs glasses.

:rolling:

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 08:54 PM
You'd take Frank and no Konerko vs. Thome and Konerko? Yikes, I know this debate has been done numerous times over, but it still baffles me that people could possibly take option 1 there. Oh well.
Look at Frank's OBP and RBI numbers this year. Plus, Frank is my favorite baseball player

jenn2080
10-04-2006, 09:04 PM
Scotty Pods needs glasses.

:rolling:


When I saw Pods on Saturday he said that he was going for Lasik eye surgery during the off season. Said he was to pretty to hide his face behind glasses.

Gregory Pratt
10-04-2006, 09:18 PM
I understand why KW made his moves, but in retrospect I would've much rather had Frank on this team than Thome.

We would've finished way under .500 without Thome's first half.

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 09:27 PM
We would've finished way under .500 without Thome's first half.And Thome did so much to help us in the 2nd half.:rolleyes:

Let's also mention that Frank got his numbers in a pitcher's park while Thome was in a hitter's park.

ilsox7
10-04-2006, 09:30 PM
Look at Frank's OBP and RBI numbers this year. Plus, Frank is my favorite baseball player

Look at what the line-up would have been with Frank as the DH and Ross Gload playing 1st. Also, Thome's OBP was significantly higher than Frank's this year, and Frank had an additional 5 RBI's, not exactly a huge difference. Do you have an actual valid argument beyond Frank being your favorite player?

jenn2080
10-04-2006, 09:35 PM
Look at what the line-up would have been with Frank as the DH and Ross Gload playing 1st. Also, Thome's OBP was significantly higher than Frank's this year, and Frank had an additional 5 RBI's, not exactly a huge difference. Do you have an actual valid argument beyond Frank being your favorite player?


Should have, would have, could have.

ilsox7
10-04-2006, 09:36 PM
Should have, would have, could have.

Huh?

Grzegorz
10-04-2006, 09:44 PM
Hindsight is twenty-twenty...

Going into this year the smart thing to do was to obtain Thome at the expense of Thomas.

That being said, screw big Frank and the A's...

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 09:49 PM
That being said, screw big Frank
We got us a bandwagoner

Craig Grebeck
10-04-2006, 10:03 PM
RBI's are a team stat. Frank had more due to the fact people actually got on base in front of him. Good argument though.

The Dude
10-04-2006, 10:12 PM
Look at what the line-up would have been with Frank as the DH and Ross Gload playing 1st. Also, Thome's OBP was significantly higher than Frank's this year, and Frank had an additional 5 RBI's, not exactly a huge difference. Do you have an actual valid argument beyond Frank being your favorite player?

Well Timo Perez is my favorite player so that should factor into this argument as well! If he were on the team instead of Ozuna.....:tongue:

ilsox7
10-04-2006, 10:15 PM
Well Timo Perez is my favorite player so that should factor into this argument as well! If he were on the team instead of Ozuna.....:tongue:

John Cangelosi would have made all the difference this year.

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 10:15 PM
Look at what the line-up would have been with Frank as the DH and Ross Gload playing 1st. Also, Thome's OBP was significantly higher than Frank's this year, and Frank had an additional 5 RBI's, not exactly a huge difference. Do you have an actual valid argument beyond Frank being your favorite player?Frank's first half numbers suffered because he was getting back into the swing of things. Once Frank hit his stride, he looked like the Frank Thomas of 1994. I see no reason why that won't be the case next year. Imagine what his numbers would've been at the Cell. There is no excuse for Thome's 2nd half decline.

ilsox7
10-04-2006, 10:18 PM
Frank's first half numbers suffered because he was getting back into the swing of things. Once Frank hit his stride, he looked like the Frank Thomas of 1994. I see no reason why that won't be the case next year. Imagine what his numbers would've been at the Cell. There is no excuse for Thome's 2nd half decline.

So b/c Thome didn't need an entire half of baseball to "get back into the swing of things" he gets penalized? You have yet to address the line-up difference of Thomas/Gload vs. Thome/Konerko...

Brian26
10-04-2006, 10:28 PM
Plus, Frank is my favorite baseball player

Offering Frank Thomas arbitration would have been an insane risk on many different levels. It's silly to continue to argue this. What would you be saying if KW offered Frank arbitration, Frank got 9 million dollars, and we find out that he wouldn't be ready by Opening Day? Then the Sox would be without a DH, all of the other rosters would have been set, nobody would have been available, AND, as Ilsox pointed out, PK would be in Anaheim. Then we'd have Ross Gload playing first and Mackowiak DH'ing every day.

Gregory Pratt
10-04-2006, 10:29 PM
And Thome did so much to help us in the 2nd half.:rolleyes:

Let's also mention that Frank got his numbers in a pitcher's park while Thome was in a hitter's park.


:rolleyes:

You're disputing what I said? All I said is, for those complaining that Thomas would've taken us all the way -- without Thome's first half, we'd have been a sub-.500 team, especially if that had been coupled with Thomas and Carl Everett at his old spot.

But I guess Aaron Rowand would've hit well-enough to make up for it.

Chisox003
10-04-2006, 10:30 PM
What's the use in "arguing" about Frank vs. Thome when the reason we aren't playing today, as stated by many here in the past weeks, is pitching?

Nothing more, nothing less. Our pitching was brutal from top to bottom. What more needs to be said?

FarWestChicago
10-04-2006, 10:37 PM
What's the use in "arguing" about Frank vs. Thome when the reason we aren't playing today, as stated by many here in the past weeks, is pitching?

Nothing more, nothing less. Our pitching was brutal from top to bottom. What more needs to be said?It's just proof the obvious is lost on the clueless. :D:

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 10:46 PM
So b/c Thome didn't need an entire half of baseball to "get back into the swing of things" he gets penalized? You have yet to address the line-up difference of Thomas/Gload vs. Thome/Konerko...Your argument is completely flawed because it wouldn't be Thomas/Gload, it would be Thomas/Konerko, just like it's been for over 5 seasons. The Sox didn't get rid of Thomas because we re-signed Konerko. It was because they got Thome.

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 10:47 PM
:rolleyes:

You're disputing what I said? All I said is, for those complaining that Thomas would've taken us all the way -- without Thome's first half, we'd have been a sub-.500 team, especially if that had been coupled with Thomas and Carl Everett at his old spot.

But I guess Aaron Rowand would've hit well-enough to make up for it.How many of those games were won by Thome in the first half? I'm sure there are some, but there is nothing to say that Thomas wouldn't have done the same thing. We sure know he would've helped us when the Sox offense was playing Corpseball in the 2nd half.

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 10:48 PM
Offering Frank Thomas arbitration would have been an insane risk on many different levels. It's silly to continue to argue this. What would you be saying if KW offered Frank arbitration, Frank got 9 million dollars, and we find out that he wouldn't be ready by Opening Day? Then the Sox would be without a DH, all of the other rosters would have been set, nobody would have been available, AND, as Ilsox pointed out, PK would be in Anaheim. Then we'd have Ross Gload playing first and Mackowiak DH'ing every day.
Now I do understand the risk there. I said in my first post that I understand why the Sox made their move. Hindsight is 20/20, and I believe in hindsight that we would've been better off in the end with Frank Thomas instead of Jim Thome.

Brian26
10-04-2006, 10:48 PM
Your argument is completely flawed because it wouldn't be Thomas/Gload, it would be Thomas/Konerko, just like it's been for over 5 seasons. The Sox didn't get rid of Thomas because we re-signed Konerko. It was because they got Thome.

Not to speak for Ilsox, but he's referring to the fact that Konerko said the deciding factor in choosing to come back to the Sox was because they brought Thome in.

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 10:50 PM
Not to speak for Ilsox, but he's referring to the fact that Konerko said the deciding factor in choosing to come back to the Sox was because they brought Thome in.
He probably would've gone to the Sox anyways. There is 0 evidence he and Frank had any issues (unless you believe Moronotti that is). Thome might've made him make his decision sooner, but I firmly believe we would've had PK anyways.

Brian26
10-04-2006, 10:53 PM
He probably would've gone to the Sox anyways. There is 0 evidence he and Frank had any issues (unless you believe Moronotti that is). Thome might've made him make his decision sooner, but I firmly believe we would've had PK anyways.

I think PK's comment had more to do with feeling better protection with Thome in the lineup than the risk of not having Frank back.

And PK was very, very close to going to Anaheim. That's been documented.

gobears1987
10-04-2006, 10:54 PM
I think PK's comment had more to do with feeling better protection with Thome in the lineup than the risk of not having Frank back.Regardless, there is no evidence that without Thome PK goes elsewhere.

Craig Grebeck
10-04-2006, 10:58 PM
Regardless, there is no evidence that without Thome PK goes elsewhere.
Regardless, there is no evidence that Frank would've actually been better for us.

jenn2080
10-04-2006, 10:58 PM
Regardless, there is no evidence that without Thome PK goes elsewhere.


There is also no evidence that Frank would have put up the numbers he did if he stayed in Chicago.

ilsox7
10-04-2006, 11:41 PM
I think PK's comment had more to do with feeling better protection with Thome in the lineup than the risk of not having Frank back.

And PK was very, very close to going to Anaheim. That's been documented.

Exactly. PK all but said he was gone if the Thome move was not made.

I remember now why I rarely post in the Clubhouse. I'm gonna just enjoy post season baseball without inane debate.

batmanZoSo
10-05-2006, 12:00 AM
Look at what the line-up would have been with Frank as the DH and Ross Gload playing 1st. Also, Thome's OBP was significantly higher than Frank's this year, and Frank had an additional 5 RBI's, not exactly a huge difference. Do you have an actual valid argument beyond Frank being your favorite player?

There isn't a valid argument. Frank tanked in the first half and like you said, his on-base doesn't touch Thome's--it's something like a 30 point difference. Thome's outstanding first half as we all should know has a lot to do with Crede and Dye having thus far career years. Frank's presence wouldn't have had nearly the same impact on the rest of the lineup.

I'm totally happy for Frank and hope he gets a ring while actually playing, but we made the right choice.

DumpJerry
10-05-2006, 12:08 AM
:tealpolice:

Now that I can agree on!

But seriously guys, Franks huge shoes would've stopped our pitchers from giving up gopher balls all season long and our leadoff man to do absolutely **** as well.

Come on Dump, you can't be literally serious here!:o:

Come on Dude, no teal was needed in my post. I don't mean we literally needed Frank's shoes in the clubhouse. What was needed was the message Frank writes on his shoes: DBTH.

Frank's first half numbers suffered because he was getting back into the swing of things. Once Frank hit his stride, he looked like the Frank Thomas of 1994. I see no reason why that won't be the case next year. Imagine what his numbers would've been at the Cell. There is no excuse for Thome's 2nd half decline.
You're absolutley right. A sore wrist and gimpy hammy for most of the seond half is no "excuse."

batmanZoSo
10-05-2006, 12:17 AM
The reason why we did not make the playoffs this year? Big Frank's shoes were not in the clubhouse. What is so special about Hurt's shoes? He has "DBTH" written on them. DBTH=Don't Believe The Hype.

For most of the season there was a "we'll make the playoffs, then we can get serious" attitude on the team. If they ignored the hype (The White Sox cannot miss the playoffs), they would have won those extra 6 games or so.

Jim Thome has (or had) DBTH on his license plate.

Bam! What say you now, Dump?

DumpJerry
10-05-2006, 12:25 AM
Jim Thome has (or had) DBTH on his license plate.

Bam! What say you now, Dump?
I did not know that. Where did you hear this?

I'm not surprised. Thome always gave 110% during the season. It's just his aches and pains slowed him down.

batmanZoSo
10-05-2006, 12:48 AM
I did not know that. Where did you hear this?

I'm not surprised. Thome always gave 110% during the season. It's just his aches and pains slowed him down.

About 5 years ago on TWIB or something like that.

Nellie_Fox
10-05-2006, 01:23 AM
maybe we can start a Perma Frank and Aaron lovefest thread. That way when everyone misses them they can just go there.You can't seriously be equating Frank and Rowand, can you?


We would've finished way under .500 without Thome's first half.So a great first half is better than a great second half? Plug Frank's second half in and the Sox still play below .500?

Grzegorz
10-05-2006, 05:47 AM
We got us a bandwagoner

If I was a bandwagon jumper I'd be on the Frank Thomas bandwagon now.

He's a great hitter; he's not a great baseball player. He possesses two of the five tools used to define a complete baseball player. I'd love to see how his longevity would be impacted if he had to play in the field all these years.

Too bad the DH is firmly entrenched; it is a stupid rule used to infuse offense into the game. All in an attempt to "dumb it down" to generate new fans.

He also has a mixed past dealing with fans and the media.

jenn2080
10-05-2006, 08:16 AM
You can't seriously be equating Frank and Rowand, can you?




So a great first half is better than a great second half? Plug Frank's second half in and the Sox still play below .500?


No. Not seriously. I LOVE Big Frank.

gobears1987
10-05-2006, 09:33 PM
If I was a bandwagon jumper I'd be on the Frank Thomas bandwagon now.

He's a great hitter; he's not a great baseball player. He possesses two of the five tools used to define a complete baseball player. I'd love to see how his longevity would be impacted if he had to play in the field all these years.

Too bad the DH is firmly entrenched; it is a stupid rule used to infuse offense into the game. All in an attempt to "dumb it down" to generate new fans.

He also has a mixed past dealing with fans and the media.Yeah and Thome has those defensive tools too.:rolleyes:

Neither player is a 5 tool player. Frank and Thome excell in one area of the game. It's just that I'd take Frank anyday over Thome.

Oh, and only bandwagon Sox fans don't love Frank. The Sox fans supporting the Big Hurt are true Sox fans who know that he was and always will be the White Sox. No player in franchise history can approach Frank (well there are some exceptions like Nellie, Louie, and Appling)

gobears1987
10-05-2006, 09:35 PM
Exactly. PK all but said he was gone if the Thome move was not made.


Really, I heard that Thome made him sign earlier, but he was not saying he wouldn't come back without Thome.

gobears1987
10-05-2006, 09:36 PM
There is also no evidence that Frank would have put up the numbers he did if he stayed in Chicago.
There is. He put up his numbers in one of the biggest pitcher park's in baseball. If Frank was in a hitter's park like Comiskey, he would've had at least 45. Just see what he did in his games in Chicago this year. Besides, it would've been nice to have SOMEONE on this team who can hit Santana. (although I think Gload might be our new Santana killer)

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2006, 11:16 PM
There is. He put up his numbers in one of the biggest pitcher park's in baseball. If Frank was in a hitter's park like Comiskey, he would've had at least 45. Just see what he did in his games in Chicago this year. Besides, it would've been nice to have SOMEONE on this team who can hit Santana. (although I think Gload might be our new Santana killer)
This is ridiculous. Pinning your hopes on an oft injured big man like Frank would have been idiotic. The payroll was increased to the point that we wouldn't have to make such high risk signings.

Unless I'm mistaken, Jim's OPS was 1.014, while Frank's was .926. Thome had a better season. Any more rebutalls?

Gregory Pratt
10-06-2006, 12:34 AM
There is. He put up his numbers in one of the biggest pitcher park's in baseball. If Frank was in a hitter's park like Comiskey, he would've had at least 45. Just see what he did in his games in Chicago this year. Besides, it would've been nice to have SOMEONE on this team who can hit Santana. (although I think Gload might be our new Santana killer)

Thome hit two homers off of Santana. He hits Johan just fine. One in the first half, one in the second.
Gload hits him well, too. But Gload's professional and hits EVERYONE.

goon
10-06-2006, 02:22 AM
There is. He put up his numbers in one of the biggest pitcher park's in baseball. If Frank was in a hitter's park like Comiskey, he would've had at least 45. Just see what he did in his games in Chicago this year. Besides, it would've been nice to have SOMEONE on this team who can hit Santana. (although I think Gload might be our new Santana killer)


what was frank hitting in the first month and a half of the season when jim thome was carrying this team?

if the sox chose to pick up the ridiculously large option on thomas this year we probably wouldn't have paulie for the next four years AND we would have been even further out of the 1st place considering how badly thomas played through april and most of may. not to mention the huge risk the organization would be taking with his ankle in the condition it was...

frank is a good ball player, but the numbers he put up this year more than likely was due to his motivation by his release from the sox, not just because he was healthy. it sucks that his ankle was a big question mark coming into this season, but don't pretend that frank thomas would have gotten this team into the postseason. the sox wanted a good attitude and a left handed power hitter in the lineup and they got thome. i suppose it didn't work out despite the fact that his numbers are superior to thomas's in every category but K's and RBI's.

if you're going to blame anything, blame the pitching... i guess.

Grzegorz
10-06-2006, 06:12 AM
Yeah and Thome has those defensive tools too.:rolleyes:

Neither player is a 5 tool player. Frank and Thome excell in one area of the game. It's just that I'd take Frank anyday over Thome.

Not once did I ever say that Thome a five tool player; way to project my supposed argument to buttress your opininon.

Oh, and only bandwagon Sox fans don't love Frank. The Sox fans supporting the Big Hurt are true Sox fans who know that he was and always will be the White Sox.

This is a wonderful example of providing a litmus test for all Chicago White Sox fans.

We all have our opinions and my argument goes beyond opinion into fact; Frank is a great hitter little else. Not to mention that he has had trouble with the media, the public, and management.

jenn2080
10-06-2006, 08:06 AM
There is. He put up his numbers in one of the biggest pitcher park's in baseball. If Frank was in a hitter's park like Comiskey, he would've had at least 45. Just see what he did in his games in Chicago this year. Besides, it would've been nice to have SOMEONE on this team who can hit Santana. (although I think Gload might be our new Santana killer)


Ross Gload > Chuck Norris :D:

Scottzilla
10-06-2006, 12:53 PM
i dont understand how you guys leave out thomes injuries this season and his history of injuries. how is a guy who missed a whole previous year not any risk? because the media likes him?

Hangar18
10-06-2006, 01:31 PM
Refresh my memory. Who signed Carl Everett after he was released by the last place Seattle Mariners on Aug. 7?


Refresh my memory here also, who in the Sox Clubhouse took up Carls attitude when he left? A: Nobody

Hangar18
10-06-2006, 01:33 PM
Come on people, re-read my original posting. The purpose of the thread is not re-hash the merits of how Frank was handled, but rather the fact that the Sox were believing the hype that they would make the playoffs.



heh heh. I was just going to type the same thing. I saw where you were going with this, thats why I also mentioned Carl Everett and his clubhouse "attitude". There isnt a stat to measure that. Someone in that clubhouse needed to step up and really didnt

Hangar18
10-06-2006, 01:36 PM
PK is on record saying the single biggest thing the Sox did to get him to re-sign was trade for Thome. Without Thome, it's a fairly safe assumption to make that PK goes to the Angels.


Thats right. Good point there. But I believe PK liked the fact that the SOX were having a Go-for-it attitude, and thats why he was back on board.

Hangar18
10-06-2006, 01:38 PM
I would not go as far as saying poor, but a little below average this year. Glasses is just absurd.


If Pods even had a chance at becoming a "poor major leaguer", why would they have traded for him? And your calling someones attempt to medically explain why a player can become so bad from one year to the next, absurd, is, well quite frankly, just as ABSURD

Hangar18
10-06-2006, 01:49 PM
There is also no evidence that Frank would have put up the numbers he did if he stayed in Chicago.

Oakland: Cavernous, humongous foul-territory, ball-does-not-travel-well park.
Chicago: Hitter Friendly, average foul-territory, ball-travels-on-jet-stream-into-seats park

Im going on a limb here and say that Thomas wouldve been Ultra En Fuego if he was playing his season here

jenn2080
10-06-2006, 01:50 PM
That or he is a very poor major league baseball player.

I would not go as far as saying poor, but a little below average this year. Glasses is just absurd.

If Pods even had a chance at becoming a "poor major leaguer", why would they have traded for him? And your calling someones attempt to medically explain why a player can become so bad from one year to the next, absurd, is, well quite frankly, just as ABSURD


Please reread what I said. At NO point did I say he was a poor player. In fact it was pretty much the opposite.

Hangar18
10-06-2006, 01:53 PM
Please reread what I said. At NO point did I say he was a poor player. In fact it was pretty much the opposite.

poor player reference was to the previous post that wasnt yours (CraigGrebeck) .......

Craig Grebeck
10-06-2006, 01:56 PM
Pods is a poor player. He is a career minor leaguer who had 1.5 decent seasons in MLB.

We traded for him in a salary dump. Any more questions Hangar?

Hangar18
10-06-2006, 02:00 PM
Pods is a poor player. He is a career minor leaguer who had 1.5 decent seasons in MLB.

We traded for him in a salary dump. Any more questions Hangar?


Oh no .... dont go there man, heh heh. I will say this. The Pods we saw this year was the Pods I thought we would see in 05

Craig Grebeck
10-06-2006, 02:07 PM
Oh no .... dont go there man, heh heh. I will say this. The Pods we saw this year was the Pods I thought we would see in 05
And this Pods is not an everyday major league player.

Nellie_Fox
10-06-2006, 03:41 PM
Pods is a poor player. He is a career minor leaguer who had 1.5 decent seasons in MLB.

We traded for him in a salary dump. Any more questions Hangar?I don't think it was just a salary dump. I think that Lee wasn't an Ozzie-type player, and Ozzie wanted him gone.

gobears1987
10-06-2006, 04:44 PM
I don't think it was just a salary dump. I think that Lee wasn't an Ozzie-type player, and Ozzie wanted him gone.Bingo, it was more of a dump the lazy oaf in LF who put out as much effort there as Manny.

Steelrod
10-07-2006, 03:28 AM
Oakland: Cavernous, humongous foul-territory, ball-does-not-travel-well park.
Chicago: Hitter Friendly, average foul-territory, ball-travels-on-jet-stream-into-seats park

Im going on a limb here and say that Thomas wouldve been Ultra En Fuego if he was playing his season here
Just a reminder that Franks option was over 10 million, whereas he signed for 500,000 with the A's. Not to mention his better attitude with Oakland, but that will change. Mark my words, Frank will be a free agent at the end of the year, repaying Oakland for stepping up for him.

Steelrod
10-07-2006, 03:29 AM
Pods is a poor player. He is a career minor leaguer who had 1.5 decent seasons in MLB.

We traded for him in a salary dump. Any more questions Hangar?
FWIW, we traded for him to win a WORLD SERIES!

Nellie_Fox
10-07-2006, 03:47 AM
...Not to mention his better attitude with Oakland, but that will change. Mark my words, Frank will be a free agent at the end of the year, repaying Oakland for stepping up for him.Like you know about Frank's attitude, and what will happen at the end of the year. Welcome to my ignore list.

HotelWhiteSox
10-07-2006, 05:43 AM
I love Frank, but come on, Thome had similar if not better numbers, they were just hot at different times. I guess I could argue then that if we had Frank in the first couple of months when he was hitting .100, that it would have hurt our hot start and we would have still evened out. Offense not the problem, look up the ERA or other pitching statistics and see where it compares to the other teams in the league. Also, compare with 05, you won't have any more questions or assumptions...

Kilroy
10-07-2006, 07:14 AM
I think Frank should send KW a thank-you note. There's no doubt in my mind that much of his success this year is due to a certain "they didn't want me; well, I'll show them" mindset on his part.

I don't know why people think this way. it's not like Frank put up numbers that he never has before. He's doing this year what he's always done when he wasn't hurt.

The only explanation for this kind of thinking is that people want to believe that the Sox made the right move in letting him go. And if he couldn't have had this year w/ the Sox, it justifies it. That's BS.

Letting Thomas go was the wrong move no matter what he did this year. And the way Kenny did it was bush league. He should have been retiring w/the Sox.

I just hope the A's go to the Series and win it because Frank deserves to play on the big stage and not just be a spectator. That he didn't play last year when the Sox won it was kind of heartbreaking for people like me who have been a Frank fan since he first came up from the minors.

southside rocks
10-07-2006, 11:43 AM
The reason why we did not make the playoffs this year? Big Frank's shoes were not in the clubhouse. What is so special about Hurt's shoes? He has "DBTH" written on them. DBTH=Don't Believe The Hype.


I heard that "TGIF" is written on Frank's shoes, to remind him that toes go in first. With his history of foot problems, he wants to be extra-careful. :tongue:

And if the Sox got Frank's shoes and put them in the clubhouse, would they have to get Frank, too, or would the ruby slippers alone be enough to send the Sox to the WS?

Myrtle72
10-07-2006, 11:59 AM
And if the Sox got Frank's shoes and put them in the clubhouse, would they have to get Frank, too, or would the ruby slippers alone be enough to send the Sox to the WS?

See, if we had had Frank's shoes in our clubhouse Frank would have been playing barefoot and would have had a much harder time hitting all those home runs off of us during the most recent Sox/A's series. We would have won all three games and been in the postseason. Yep, that's why we should have had Frank's shoes.

gobears1987
10-07-2006, 06:17 PM
Just a reminder that Franks option was over 10 million, whereas he signed for 500,000 with the A's. Not to mention his better attitude with Oakland, but that will change. Mark my words, Frank will be a free agent at the end of the year, repaying Oakland for stepping up for him.
:dumbass:
This one fits you all too well.

Any comments about Frank's attitude are lies from Moron and the Cubune.

Steelrod
10-07-2006, 08:03 PM
:dumbass:
This one fits you all too well.

Any comments about Frank's attitude are lies from Moron and the Cubune.
Time will tell!