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Whitesox4ever
10-03-2006, 06:12 PM
Kenny Williams's contract obligations:

C - A.J. Pierzynski - $5.5MM
C -
1B - Paul Konerko - $12MM
2B - Tadahito Iguchi - $3.25MM (club option)
SS - Juan Uribe - $4.15MM
3B - Joe Crede - $2.875MM
IF/OF - Pablo Ozuna - $0.5MM
1B/OF - Ross Gload - $0.35MM
LF - Josh Fields - $0.33MM, Ryan Sweeney - $0.33MM
CF - Brian Anderson - $0.33MM
RF - Jermaine Dye - $6MM
DH - Jim Thome - $8.5MM
OF - Rob Mackowiak - $2.75MM

SP - Jose Contreras - $9MM
SP - Mark Buehrle - $9.5MM (club option)
SP - Jon Garland - $10MM
SP - Freddy Garcia - $10MM
SP - Javier Vazquez - $12.5MM
SP - Brandon McCarthy - $0.332MM

RP - Bobby Jenks - $0.34MM
RP - Mike MacDougal - $0.43MM
RP - Neal Cotts - $0.4MM
RP - Matt Thornton - $0.355MM
RP - Charlie Haeger - $0.33MM
RP - Boone Logan - $0.327MM
RP - Sean Tracey - $0.33MM

Buyouts
RP - Dustin Hermanson - $0.5MM

Arbitration-eligible; could be nontendered
LF - Scott Podsednik - $1.9MM
IF - Alex Cintron - $1.6MM

The Immigrant
10-03-2006, 06:14 PM
We must have the cheapest bullpen in the majors.

Whitesox4ever
10-03-2006, 06:15 PM
Assuming Podsednik, Cintron, and Hermanson are not invited back, the Sox have about $100MM tied up. Throw in raises for Crede and others and you're probably around $105MM. The Sox entered 2006 a touch under $103MM, and the payroll shouldn't be significantly higher than that. Keep in mind that the subtraction of a starter would free up some cash.

The Sox will need a decent backup catcher, but some of the better options like Vance Wilson and Mike Redmond have been locked up.

Around the infield: Iguchi's option is a no-brainer. But what to do with Juan Uribe? The man had the worst OBP in baseball (though he continued to hit for good power). His glovework is top five in the game for sure.
Kenny Williams could trade Uribe and acquire someone better to play shortstop (if perhaps in a separate deal). Some Sox fans are clamoring for a Michael Young trade if possible. Young, however, is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball. It would be exchanging Uribe's OBP problem (and a ton of young prospect talent) for another problem. You'd still probably rather have Young, but not at the price.

Baseball Prospectus rates Uribe's '06 performance at 2.6 wins, and his 2004 peak at 5.1 wins. Aside from giving up the farm for Miguel Tejada, the Sox could sign Julio Lugo or trade for Orlando Cabrera. It won't be easy if Williams tries to upgrade at short.
Crede's been doing one-year deals, and could go up to five or six million after arbitration. If he elects not to have back surgery, the team may be reluctant to ink him to a multiyear contract. Plenty of teams need third basemen, so feel free to concoct wild trade scenarios. Go ahead, I'll wait.

If the Sox do trade Crede, Josh Fields probably becomes the third baseman. He'd be a step down but might be able to get the job done following a .305/.379/.515 line in Charlotte. Fields did have a weak offensive second half for the Knights though. And you wouldn't want to replace both Crede and Uribe, as the left-side infield defense would be severely weakened. The Sox may very well stand pat at both positions.

Depending on who you ask, something may have to be done about center field. Brian Anderson has his supporters for another shot at center, though he still wasn't league average offensively for his position in the second half. And league average for a CF isn't asking much. We know Ozzie and Juan Pierre have mutual affection, but Williams doesn't feel the love (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/whitesox.asp?id=231854). Other options include Jim Edmonds and Gary Matthews Jr. and, to a lesser extent, Dave Roberts or Kenny Lofton. Maybe a deal for Ryan Freel? No acquisition could top Vernon Wells, but competition will be fierce if he's available. There's no easy answer here, of course.

Left field is more of an agreed-upon problem. The Sox have probably had enough of Pods, so they'll either nontender or trade him. Should Crede stay, Fields and Ryan Sweeney could get a look. Otherwise there's Cliff Floyd (a Chicago native), Moises Alou, David Dellucci, Luis Gonzalez, or maybe even Alfonso Soriano. Or maybe Kenny peddles his one possible surplus, starting pitching, as part of a deal for Manny Ramirez or Carl Crawford. If the Sox want to make another deal with Philly, Pat Burrell is available for peanuts but would have to approve a trade.

The rotation, of course, is six deep. Assuming Williams's six-man rotation idea doesn't fly, someone has to go to make room for McCarthy. Popular opinion is Garcia, who could interest the Mets (and would succeed in the NL). But Buehrle and Vazquez are certainly fair game. KW is good at what he does, and he'll find a way to turn one of these starters into a good outfielder. How about Matt Murton or Luke Scott, to toss out a few names? I'm sure Kenny can do better.

Williams has pledged to add a reliever. Haeger should join the pen if he's not traded; his knuckler would certainly be a change from flamethrowers like Jenks and MacDougal. Hermanson could return at reduced pay, but at least one other proven guy will be imported. Aaron Heilman could be available via trade. Justin Speier could be on the radar. Various free agents (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/09/2007_mlb_free_a_2.html) fit the bill. Maybe the Sox will get creative, grab a guy like Byung-Hyun Kim or Kerry Wood.

It looks like another fun offseason in Chicago, as the Sox have all sorts of ways to play this hand. What would you do?

caulfield12
10-03-2006, 06:33 PM
Assuming Podsednik, Cintron, and Hermanson are not invited back, the Sox have about $100MM tied up. Throw in raises for Crede and others and you're probably around $105MM. The Sox entered 2006 a touch under $103MM, and the payroll shouldn't be significantly higher than that. Keep in mind that the subtraction of a starter would free up some cash.

The Sox will need a decent backup catcher, but some of the better options like Vance Wilson and Mike Redmond have been locked up.

Around the infield: Iguchi's option is a no-brainer. But what to do with Juan Uribe? The man had the worst OBP in baseball (though he continued to hit for good power). His glovework is top five in the game for sure.
Kenny Williams could trade Uribe and acquire someone better to play shortstop (if perhaps in a separate deal). Some Sox fans are clamoring for a Michael Young trade if possible. Young, however, is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball. It would be exchanging Uribe's OBP problem (and a ton of young prospect talent) for another problem. You'd still probably rather have Young, but not at the price.

Baseball Prospectus rates Uribe's '06 performance at 2.6 wins, and his 2004 peak at 5.1 wins. Aside from giving up the farm for Miguel Tejada, the Sox could sign Julio Lugo or trade for Orlando Cabrera. It won't be easy if Williams tries to upgrade at short.
Crede's been doing one-year deals, and could go up to five or six million after arbitration. If he elects not to have back surgery, the team may be reluctant to ink him to a multiyear contract. Plenty of teams need third basemen, so feel free to concoct wild trade scenarios. Go ahead, I'll wait.

If the Sox do trade Crede, Josh Fields probably becomes the third baseman. He'd be a step down but might be able to get the job done following a .305/.379/.515 line in Charlotte. Fields did have a weak offensive second half for the Knights though. And you wouldn't want to replace both Crede and Uribe, as the left-side infield defense would be severely weakened. The Sox may very well stand pat at both positions.

Depending on who you ask, something may have to be done about center field. Brian Anderson has his supporters for another shot at center, though he still wasn't league average offensively for his position in the second half. And league average for a CF isn't asking much. We know Ozzie and Juan Pierre have mutual affection, but Williams doesn't feel the love (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/whitesox.asp?id=231854). Other options include Jim Edmonds and Gary Matthews Jr. and, to a lesser extent, Dave Roberts or Kenny Lofton. Maybe a deal for Ryan Freel? No acquisition could top Vernon Wells, but competition will be fierce if he's available. There's no easy answer here, of course.

Left field is more of an agreed-upon problem. The Sox have probably had enough of Pods, so they'll either nontender or trade him. Should Crede stay, Fields and Ryan Sweeney could get a look. Otherwise there's Cliff Floyd (a Chicago native), Moises Alou, David Dellucci, Luis Gonzalez, or maybe even Alfonso Soriano. Or maybe Kenny peddles his one possible surplus, starting pitching, as part of a deal for Manny Ramirez or Carl Crawford. If the Sox want to make another deal with Philly, Pat Burrell is available for peanuts but would have to approve a trade.

The rotation, of course, is six deep. Assuming Williams's six-man rotation idea doesn't fly, someone has to go to make room for McCarthy. Popular opinion is Garcia, who could interest the Mets (and would succeed in the NL). But Buehrle and Vazquez are certainly fair game. KW is good at what he does, and he'll find a way to turn one of these starters into a good outfielder. How about Matt Murton or Luke Scott, to toss out a few names? I'm sure Kenny can do better.

Williams has pledged to add a reliever. Haeger should join the pen if he's not traded; his knuckler would certainly be a change from flamethrowers like Jenks and MacDougal. Hermanson could return at reduced pay, but at least one other proven guy will be imported. Aaron Heilman could be available via trade. Justin Speier could be on the radar. Various free agents (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/09/2007_mlb_free_a_2.html) fit the bill. Maybe the Sox will get creative, grab a guy like Byung-Hyun Kim or Kerry Wood.

It looks like another fun offseason in Chicago, as the Sox have all sorts of ways to play this hand. What would you do?

We'll probably keep Cintron and non-tender Pods. That saves $2.5-$3.0 million, at least.

By the way, our share of Vazquez's deal next year in "only" $9.5 million.

Luke Scott won't be going anywhere.

The Mets would be a decent trade option, they can take on salary (instead of us having to subsidize Garcia or Vazquez)...heck, with El Duque and Pedro out, they're starting Trachsel and Maine as their #2 and #3 this week.

I actually think we would be less likely to sign Crede long-term if he had back surgery, as surgery on the back could end his career.

I think we trade one of starters (to get a RH reliever and a LF/CF) and have a wide-open competition among all of our rookies (BA, Sweeney, Owens, Fields), Ozuna and Mack for LF...

We might end up dumping Mack, Ozuna or Gload, depending on the needs for a RH hitting OF that can also play CF.

Uribe probably stays.

KW signs a veteran LH reliever as insurance for Cotts and Boone not working out.

cbotnyse
10-03-2006, 07:29 PM
Whitesox4ever, the season just ended. You should ban yourself for awhile, you are thinking about this stuff way too much. :smile: :tongue: :cool:

SluggersAway
10-03-2006, 07:40 PM
Ban himself or Kenny should add him to the payroll.

sox1970
10-03-2006, 07:43 PM
Whitesox4ever, the season just ended. You should ban yourself for awhile, you are thinking about this stuff way too much. :smile: :tongue: :cool:

It's never too early to start thinking about moves. That's what I love about baseball.

Assuming McCarthy moves to the rotation, I hope they trade either Vazquez or Contreras, and none of other three. Freddy needs to stay. The Sox went 22-11 when he took the bump, and that cannot be overlooked.

If McCarthy is in the rotation, I'd like to see Haeger, Thornton, MacDougal, and Jenks in the pen. I want Cotts and Riske gone. Thanks Neal for 2005, but it's time to go.

Pods will be gone. After that, the Sox have options with trades with Crede and Uribe.

It's going to be an interesting offseason. I'll trust the pitching staff will improve and the starting lineup will have more speed. KW is a smart guy. He'll put together a good roster.

Huisj
10-03-2006, 08:16 PM
Are the Sox responsible for all 12.5 million for Vazquez, or am I mistaken that AZ picked up part of his contract in that trade? Or was that just for one year?

SluggersAway
10-03-2006, 08:22 PM
I believe we are "only" on the hook for 9.5 million dollars of Vazquez's salary.

Sox-o-matic
10-03-2006, 08:28 PM
It's never too early to start thinking about moves. That's what I love about baseball.

Assuming McCarthy moves to the rotation, I hope they trade either Vazquez or Contreras, and none of other three. Freddy needs to stay. The Sox went 22-11 when he took the bump, and that cannot be overlooked.

If McCarthy is in the rotation, I'd like to see Haeger, Thornton, MacDougal, and Jenks in the pen. I want Cotts and Riske gone. Thanks Neal for 2005, but it's time to go.

Pods will be gone. After that, the Sox have options with trades with Crede and Uribe.

It's going to be an interesting offseason. I'll trust the pitching staff will improve and the starting lineup will have more speed. KW is a smart guy. He'll put together a good roster.

I agree on Freddy. I think he'll get his fastball back and, with his new splitter, will have a huge '07.

I disagree on Heager though. If McCarthy is in the rotation, which means the cost of the starting rotation will be down at least $9mil, I want to see another big arm in the pen for use as a setup man.

***Most importantly*** I want to see KW replace Vizcaino. We need that solid 5th/6th innings eater because the loss of that helped cost us this season. Edit: If that type of reliever costs the Sox 3-4mil per season or more it will be worth EVERY SINGLE PENNY.

We shouldn't need a long reliever and I'd hate to see Charlie trying to find his knuckleball with 1 out and RISP in the 6th inning of a close game.

I don't know about Pods because I don't know how much KW is willing to spend in terms of salary and/or talent to obtain a real, clear-cut upgrade. But I will say that I doubt Sweeney, Anderson, or Fields will start the season in AAA next year, so something will definately happen to the Sox outfield next year and it will have nothing to do with Jermaine Dye going anywhere.

I agree that the pitching in '07 will be much improved. I think that if KW made no changes to the pitching staff whatsoever we would still be much improved.

we be jake
10-03-2006, 08:33 PM
We must have the cheapest bullpen in the majors.

No joke!! Do ya think Jenks will get a raise?
And 9.5 M for Vaz is way too much. Didn't anyone look at his recent stats when we picked him up?

sox1970
10-03-2006, 08:44 PM
We shouldn't need a long reliever and I'd hate to see Charlie trying to find his knuckleball with 1 out and RISP in the 6th inning of a close game.

The reason why I want Haeger on the team next year, is he can start in a pinch and you really don't have to worry about pitch count, plus he can be brought in when one of the starters gets lit up in the first few innings. When Buehrle was getting shelled in the first inning, they could have pulled him, and let Haeger go 6-7 innings. Sure you may lose that game, but you're saving the rest of the bullpen for the close games.

SluggersAway
10-03-2006, 08:59 PM
I agree that the pitching in '07 will be much improved. I think that if KW made no changes to the pitching staff whatsoever we would still be much improved.

I don't know where this idea comes from. It surely doesn't come from recent performance, but probably from a hope that the staff will return to the abnormal form of the magical season of 2005. Missing a month off in October and a couple pitchers playing in the WBC cannot account for all of the decline in the pitching staff.

But, I hope you are right because I don't see KW making any major changes.

Sox-o-matic
10-03-2006, 09:37 PM
The reason why I want Haeger on the team next year, is he can start in a pinch and you really don't have to worry about pitch count, plus he can be brought in when one of the starters gets lit up in the first few innings. When Buehrle was getting shelled in the first inning, they could have pulled him, and let Haeger go 6-7 innings. Sure you may lose that game, but you're saving the rest of the bullpen for the close games.

You do have a point, but I doubt Ozzie is going to only carry 12 pitchers.

If he carries 11 again, five of the spots go to the starters and 3 of those spots go to Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal.

From there, one spot of the remaining 3 will surely go to a second lefty (Neal Cotts or a new acquistion, definitely not Boobe Logan).

Two spots left. Ozzie is going to want a second righty (besides Jenks) for the 7th inning. Riske may not be back so KW may look outside the organization or opt to go with Tracey.

The last spot is where a lot of people here want a long reliever. But here are some facts:

Out of 162 games, a starter has failed to get to the fifth inning ONLY 11 TIMES, and two of those were replacement starts made by Haeger and McCarthy.

However, 29 TIMES a starter has failed to pitch 6.0 innings after making it into the 5th. That means that 40 TIMES this year a starter has failed to make it into the 6th inning. And 93 TIMES a starter has failed to make it into the 7th inning.

We do NOT need a long reliever. For those 11 games where starters failed to get to the fifth, a solid innings eater like Vizcaino could have taken us there or futher. Also, a solid reliever like him would have been infinitely more valuable than a starter in a relief role (as McCarthy was) for the 5th and 6th innings.

People want Heager because a knuckler doesn't put as much stress on his arm and can pitch a ton of innings, including every other day for a decent stretch if necessary. But knucklers are also inconsistent and prone to the big inning.

The lack of a reliable reliever capable of throwing 70-80 innings has been the primary reason for the failure of our bullpen. It put added pressure on guys who were not performing well (Cotts, Politte, McCarthy) and it made the Sox have to go to their top 3 more often than they should have had to.

If KW decides to put a rookie knuckleballer in what has proven to be the most crucial area of our bullpen, I will have lost all faith in him as a GM. If instead he realizes that a solid reliever in that spot will make every reliever behind him better and is the key difference between an ineffective bullpen and a solid bullpen, I will be very happy with his offseason.

Sox-o-matic
10-03-2006, 09:51 PM
I don't know where this idea comes from. It surely doesn't come from recent performance, but probably from a hope that the staff will return to the abnormal form of the magical season of 2005. Missing a month off in October and a couple pitchers playing in the WBC cannot account for all of the decline in the pitching staff.

But, I hope you are right because I don't see KW making any major changes.

So I guess Jose Contreras was abnormal in Cuba, too?
And I guess Mark Buehrle's whole career minus the '06 season has been abnormal?
That also means that Freddy Garcia must not be very good, and Jon Garland has not become the solid pitcher everyone hoped he would become over the last two years.
You're also supposing that Neal Cotts is going to be ineffective for the rest of career.

2005 was a great year for the pitching but let's be realistic here. The numbers the pitching staff put up in 2005 were some of the best numbers these guys have put up in their careers, but those numbers are certainly not the best these guys are capable of. All you have to do is watch these guys pitch and you can tell right away that this year was more of a fluke than 2005 was.

Before we got Garcia, he was set to become the hottest FA pitcher on the market. If KW were to deny Buehrle his option, he would at least be the 2nd hottest FA on the market, if not more sought after than Zito. Contreras was the hottest 'new' pitcher on the planet when he first came to NY. Vazquez while in Montreal was looked at as the next top ace in bigs. Garland was raved about too when we first got him.

There are reasons this staff has been so highly touted for so long. There was serious potential for this being the best starting rotation in the game before the season started, and if a new season started tomorrow with all rosters the same as they are now, the Sox would again be looked at as the most talented, deepest rotation in baseball, records be damned.

SluggersAway
10-03-2006, 09:56 PM
Out of 162 games, a starter has failed to get to the fifth inning ONLY 11 TIMES, and two of those were replacement starts made by Haeger and McCarthy.

However, 29 TIMES a starter has failed to pitch 6.0 innings after making it into the 5th. That means that 40 TIMES this year a starter has failed to make it into the 6th inning. And 93 TIMES a starter has failed to make it into the 7th inning.

A lot of those times Sox fans were pleading for a change in pitching as the starters were obviously not getting it done.

I don't see how you can be comfortable with the starting pitchers going through all of that again in 2007.

Sox-o-matic
10-03-2006, 10:00 PM
A lot of those times Sox fans were pleading for a change in pitching as the starters were obviously not getting it done.

I don't see how you can be comfortable with the starting pitchers going through all of that again in 2007.

When did I say I was comfortable with the starting pitching not getting it done?

What I'm saying is that there is a need for a solid 5th/6th inning guy. There is not a need for a long reliver. A LR on Ozzie's staff is NOT going to go into very many games before the 5th. Instead he would find himself in a bunch of 5th/6th/7th inning situations where there are probably already runners on. This is not a spot for a rookie knuckleballer.

SluggersAway
10-03-2006, 10:18 PM
Ancient history brother.

So I guess Jose Contreras was abnormal in Cuba, too?

That was quite a long time ago. Do you know how old he is now?

And I guess Mark Buehrle's whole career minus the '06 season has been abnormal?

Buehrle has been atrocious lately, I don't know what inside info you have that he can turn it around on a dime come spring, but please share it with us all.

That also means that Freddy Garcia must not be very good, and Jon Garland has not become the solid pitcher everyone hoped he would become over the last two years.

Garland I have no problem with, but Freddy is shaky, he can pitch in the spring and then in the fall, when he starts sweating bullets in the heat of the summer he hasn't looked good. Baseball is mostly played in the summer and your play in the summer determines if you make it into the playoffs in October.


You're also supposing that Neal Cotts is going to be ineffective for the rest of career.

I wouldn't cry for Cotts. He didn't get the job done this season.

2005 was a great year for the pitching...

I already stated that I agree.

Before we got Garcia, he was set to become the hottest FA pitcher on the market.

Ancient history in baseball years.

If KW were to deny Buehrle his option, he would at least be the 2nd hottest FA on the market, if not more sought after than Zito.

Doubt it, based on his recent history and Zito still lighting it up in post season. But, sure let KW try to get more for Buehrle than Zito in the off season.

Contreras was the hottest 'new' pitcher on the planet when he first came to NY. Vazquez while in Montreal was looked at as the next top ace in bigs.

More ancient history. How old is Contreras? What has he done for the team lately?

Vazquez and Montreal is old news. Baseball teams pay for current value. Have you seen how much the Sox paid for Vazquez's output this year?

There was serious potential for this being the best starting rotation in the game before the season started...records be damned.

Potential means nothing, the records rather than being damned actually tell the truth.

As I said, I hope you are right, I don't see KW making big moves, but the record says it doesn't look good. Maybe they can come back big time. Maybe they can't. It is a crap shoot at this time. No one will know before opening day. But, one thing you cannot deny is that the record from this year does not look good. A half season of outstanding Garland withstanding.

SluggersAway
10-03-2006, 10:23 PM
When did I say I was comfortable with the starting pitching not getting it done?

When you said you would be happy with the same pitching staff next year:

I think that if KW made no changes to the pitching staff whatsoever we would still be much improved.

That is living on a hope and a prayer.

We are all living on those wings.

It doesn't look like KW will make major changes. I am not just pointing you out. Only using your posts to make a larger point.

Sox-o-matic
10-03-2006, 10:38 PM
Ancient history brother.



That was quite a long time ago. Do you know how old he is now?



Buehrle has been atrocious lately, I don't know what inside info you have that he can turn it around on a dime come spring, but please share it with us all.



Garland I have no problem with, but Freddy is shaky, he can pitch in the spring and then in the fall, when he starts sweating bullets in the heat of the summer he hasn't looked good. Baseball is mostly played in the summer and your play in the summer determines if you make it into the playoffs in October.




I wouldn't cry for Cotts. He didn't get the job done this season.



I already stated that I agree.



Ancient history in baseball years.



Doubt it, based on his recent history and Zito still lighting it up in post season. But, sure let KW try to get more for Buehrle than Zito in the off season.



More ancient history. How old is Contreras? What has he done for the team lately?

Vazquez and Montreal is old news. Baseball teams pay for current value. Have you seen how much the Sox paid for Vazquez's output this year?



Potential means nothing, the records rather than being damned actually tell the truth.

As I said, I hope you are right, I don't see KW making big moves, but the record says it doesn't look good. Maybe they can come back big time. Maybe they can't. It is a crap shoot at this time. No one will know before opening day. But, one thing you cannot deny is that the record from this year does not look good. A half season of outstanding Garland withstanding.

First of all, I don't care if you're 85 years old, if you can pitch 200 innings, spot a mid 90's fastball and throw an unhittable forkball, you'll dominate big league hitters.

Buehrle had the worst year of his career because he lost his control. I don't have any secret information on him as you suppose, but I do believe that pitchers can have successful seasons after bad ones, especially when their entire careers suggest so. If you think Mark, with his career stats after pitching his whole career in the AL and in the Cell, wouldn't be offered a contract similar to Zito, I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

Vazquez had two bad months this season. I see no reason why he can't go into 2007 with the same approach/mindset that he ended 2006 with. And about potential and ability, players survive for years in the bigs off that alone. Especially starters with Javier's stuff. The thing with his is, yeah he's getting paid a lot, and no he didn't earn all of it with his total performance this year, but remember how many people wanted to dump Contreras after we got him? Remember how many people claimed he was a total headcase? I think we should at least give KW, Coop, and especially Javy the benefit of the doubt. I guarantee that if Javy wins 16 games next year with an ERA in the 3's, no one in baseball is going to say they were surprised.

And no, Cotts didn't do a great job this year. He sucked, and badly. But I also think the absence of a true middle relief option this year forced Ozzie into using Cotts more than he would have liked to. Ozzie was never able to protect Cotts by using him in one-batter situations to build up his confidence.

Sox-o-matic
10-03-2006, 10:42 PM
When you said you would be happy with the same pitching staff next year:



That is living on a hope and a prayer.

We are all living on those wings.

It doesn't look like KW will make major changes. I am not just pointing you out. Only using your posts to make a larger point.

I said I'd be happy if KW got a solid reliever because I think a solid middle reliever would make the entire bullpen better by limiting the amount of innings that others have to pitch.

Call it living on a hope and prayer all you want, but these guys are better pitchers than they have shown this year.

And yes, it does look like KW will make major changes. Any time a GM trades a name starting pitcher making at least $9mil per season, adds a new starter, and bolsters the bullpen, he has made major changes.

SluggersAway
10-03-2006, 10:58 PM
And yes, it does look like KW will make major changes. Any time a GM trades a name starting pitcher making at least $9mil per season, adds a new starter, and bolsters the bullpen, he has made major changes.

You and I were both talking about the starters. The relievers have nothing to do with that discussion.

As for the "major changes," that is just speculation, so we will both have to see about that.

Hitmen77
10-03-2006, 11:31 PM
Assuming Podsednik, Cintron, and Hermanson are not invited back, the Sox have about $100MM tied up. Throw in raises for Crede and others and you're probably around $105MM. The Sox entered 2006 a touch under $103MM, and the payroll shouldn't be significantly higher than that. Keep in mind that the subtraction of a starter would free up some cash.

...


It looks like another fun offseason in Chicago, as the Sox have all sorts of ways to play this hand. What would you do?

I'd be surprised if Cintron isn't brought back. I expect them to trade one of the current starting pitchers to free up salary money that will be used to pay for a new LF or bullpen help.

KW hinted that we're wrong to assume Uribe will be gone. So, I think odds are that he'll be back unless KW can work his magic and swing a deal for someone like Michael Young. Not impossible, but I don't think it's likely.

Also, we really don't know what the payroll limit will be for next year. They came close to maxing out on ticket sales, but there are other factors that influence revenue: Corporate sponsorship, skybox sales, increase in ticket prices.

Frater Perdurabo
10-04-2006, 12:06 AM
In response to the orginal question - what would you (I) do? - here's my plan:

Sign JUAN PIERRE to play LF and lead off. As insurance, put SCOTT PODSEDNIK on the bench as the backup OF and pinch hitter/runner, replacing PABLO OZUNA.

Trade BRANDON McCARTHY and JUAN URIBE for MICHAEL YOUNG. Throw in a prospect if Texas demands it.*

Put CHARLIE HAEGER in the bullpen for reasons described above and elsewhere.

Make CHRIS STEWART the backup catcher. For 1-2 starts per week, his defense will outweigh his rookie struggles at the plate.

Have BRIAN ANDERSON play Winter Ball to master the art of bunting for hits and sacrifices, to recognize pitches, to avoid swinging at pitches out of the zone, and to steal bases successfully.

Keep SEAN TRACEY, LANCE BROADWAY, RYAN SWEENEY and JOSH FIELDS at Charlotte to perfect their games and prepare for possible mid-season callups and/or midseason trades for relief help if needed.

LF - Pierre (200 hits, 60 SB)
SS - Young (.300, 20 SB, 40 2B, 30 HR)
RF - Dye (.300, 10 SB, 30 2B, 40 HR)
DH - Thome (.290, 30 2B, 40 HR)
1B - Konerko (.290, 30 2B, 35 HR)
C - AJ (.280, 20 2B, 15 HR)
2B - Iguchi (.280, 20 SB, 20 2B, 15 HR)
3B - Crede (.280, 30 2B, 30 HR)
CF - Anderson (.250, 20 SB, 25 2B, 10 HR)

Bench - Stewart (C), Gload (1B), Podsednik (OF), Mackowiak (3B/OF), Cintron (2B/SS)

Starters - Garland, Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Vazquez

Bullpen - Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Haeger, Cotts, Hermanson

* If Texas prefers, trade GARCIA or CONTRERAS instead of McCARTHY.

SluggersAway
10-04-2006, 12:24 AM
I think Pierre and Young is a pipe dream, not to mention that people have already stated reasons why it might not produce the upgrade some people might think.

Sox-o-matic
10-04-2006, 12:34 AM
I think Pierre and Young is a pipe dream, not to mention that people have already stated reasons why it might not produce the upgrade some people might think.

I don't think JR would be willing to pay both of them longterm anyway, and you don't trade for a talent like Michael Young if you know you won't resign him longterm.

Pierre is a decent upgrade over the 2006 version of Pods, but I don't know if you want to give $7mil per year or so to a player who plays the least most important defensive position on the diamond. Especially if he's not putting up power numbers.

Now if the Sox got someone like Crawford who could also pay CF and who has a real chance to be a major offensive player for years, that is one thing. But then you have to be prepared to lock him up longterm.

I think KW will look for, but not necessarily find, a leadoff hitter that comes in the form of a CF, 2B, or SS to justify the amount of money and/or talent being spent. I doubt he will make a trade for a marginal role player.

In theory, KW could trade Uribe and Pods for a reliver or two, maybe prospects, and attempt to sign a couple of short term solutions to one-year contracts in Omar Vizquel and Dave Roberts. But I doubt KW would do that, instead I'd think he rather start Sweeney or Fields in left and stay with Juan at short.

HotelWhiteSox
10-04-2006, 01:09 AM
I think one SP is definately gone, don't know which one, probably not McCarhty or Garland. Bullpen needs a long reliever. Don't think much more tweaking to the pitching other than that. I think Crede will be traded and we will keep Uribe (not preference but yeah). LF, SS, 3B all seem iffy. I also wouldn't be surprised to see AJ gone. The SP and other position player traded away can get something back or free up money and work on those holes. Backups can be dealt with internally, if you don't mind taking away a lot of at bats a developing player would normally get in the minors.

JorgeFabregas
10-04-2006, 01:46 AM
Young, however, is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball.
According to what? He had his best defensive year in 2006. His zone rating is #2 among qualifying AL starters behind Uribe, his range factor is #2 behind Peralta, and his fielding percentage (not a great metric, admittedly) is the best.

caulfield12
10-04-2006, 08:10 AM
I think one SP is definately gone, don't know which one, probably not McCarhty or Garland. Bullpen needs a long reliever. Don't think much more tweaking to the pitching other than that. I think Crede will be traded and we will keep Uribe (not preference but yeah). LF, SS, 3B all seem iffy. I also wouldn't be surprised to see AJ gone. The SP and other position player traded away can get something back or free up money and work on those holes. Backups can be dealt with internally, if you don't mind taking away a lot of at bats a developing player would normally get in the minors.


What is your logic for a catching change besides AJ's % throwing out runners (which is 90% on Garcia, Contreras and Jenks, among others)?

He's LH, and he's one of the more vocal leaders on this team.

He's in the top third of catchers offensively.

He has a reasonable contract.

Who would you even want to get to replace him?

It's not like there's a group of "available" base-stealing catchers out there.

It's hard enough to find a leadoff hitter for LF/CF or SS...

itsnotrequired
10-04-2006, 08:31 AM
I believe we are "only" on the hook for 9.5 million dollars of Vazquez's salary.

Vazquez is owed $24 million for 2006-2007 ($11.5 million in 2006 and $12.5 million in 2007). Arizona sent over $5 million but I'm not clear how that was split between the two seasons. Does anyone know exactly what Vazquez was paid this season?

oeo
10-04-2006, 09:12 AM
That is living on a hope and a prayer.

We are all living on those wings.

It doesn't look like KW will make major changes. I am not just pointing you out. Only using your posts to make a larger point.

Based on one year of inconsistent pitching by our rotation, and it's no longer good? I'm comfortable with this same rotation going into next year, any team in the majors would be comfortable with it. Buehrle's career isn't doomed because he had a bad season, Contreras isn't done because he's 'too old', Garcia didn't have a full offseason to rest his arm...the velocity could still be there (and I think it will be a mistake if we trade this guy), Vazquez is finally coming around, and Garland has been great for the majority of the second half (notice the key word there is second half...you still want Garland around because he had a very good couple of months...well, Buehrle was good for April/May, Contreras was near unhittable during that span; Garcia, although inconsistent, was probably our best pitcher when looking over the course of the full season, and Vazquez was good for the first couple of months; it's quite amazing the way you base our offseason moves over who you like the most at the time).

I'm certainly glad that you're not the GM, you'd be getting rid of guys like Buehrle and Contreras, to overpay for a guy like Zito. No thanks. Name one team that wouldn't take our starting five over their starting five.

caulfield12
10-04-2006, 09:31 AM
Based on one year of inconsistent pitching by our rotation, and it's no longer good? I'm comfortable with this same rotation going into next year, any team in the majors would be comfortable with it. Buehrle's career isn't doomed because he had a bad season, Contreras isn't done because he's 'too old', Garcia didn't have a full offseason to rest his arm...the velocity could still be there (and I think it will be a mistake if we trade this guy), Vazquez is finally coming around, and Garland has been great for the majority of the second half (notice the key word there is second half...you still want Garland around because he had a very good couple of months...well, Buehrle was good for April/May, Contreras was near unhittable during that span; Garcia, although inconsistent, was probably our best pitcher when looking over the course of the full season, and Vazquez was good for the first couple of months; it's quite amazing the way you base our offseason moves over who you like the most at the time).

I'm certainly glad that you're not the GM, you'd be getting rid of guys like Buehrle and Contreras, to overpay for a guy like Zito. No thanks. Name one team that wouldn't take our starting five over their starting five.

I agree with most of what you say, except for the part about Garcia being our best pitcher.

He didn't show up when we needed him in July and August, the only "significant" game that he pitched well was the near no-no. It's easy to pitch games down the stretch without any pressure. He pitched well the last 3-4 starts, but Vazquez was arguably better the last two months than anyone. Nobody on the team had a complete season, but Garland was the closest, and his ERA was still in the mid-4.00's.

His constantly annoying comments didn't help either.

A. Cavatica
10-04-2006, 10:27 AM
Look at it this way: some needs must be addressed, some players have worn out their welcomes, and some players are just overpaid.

Salary-driven subtractions will include a starting pitcher TBD, but other players are at risk. Uribe's limitations are problematic when he's making $4.2M and Mackowiak's a little expensive at $2.8M (assuming the manager isn't stupid enough to keep running him out to CF). Konerko, Dye, and Crede are big pieces of this team, but since the Sox have cheaper alternatives, it wouldn't surprise me to see one of these guys moved.

Podsednik has worn out his welcome and will be traded. Cotts may have worn out his, but the Sox might give him one more year. Both these guys still have some trade value. There are probably more players that either KW or Ozzie would like to bid farewell to, but I don't feel qualified to speculate.

Finally, there are needs. McCarthy will end up in the rotation, making Haeger the front-runner for his spot, and KW will want a couple of cheap veterans as insurance. (Is Tim Redding one of them?) Then there are the Hermanson and Riske slots to fill, and maybe Cotts. We need a new leadoff hitter, and probably a new #2 hitter; we need a reserve CF (maybe even a starter); Ozzie wants more team speed; and we need a backup catcher. Sweeney, Fields, Owens, and Stewart will have chances to make the roster next spring, but I don't expect KW to go into next season depending on any of those guys.

mcfish
10-04-2006, 10:47 AM
We must have the cheapest bullpen in the majors.And they played like it down the stretch too. :angry:

Thome25
10-04-2006, 11:17 AM
Assuming Podsednik, Cintron, and Hermanson are not invited back, the Sox have about $100MM tied up. Throw in raises for Crede and others and you're probably around $105MM. The Sox entered 2006 a touch under $103MM, and the payroll shouldn't be significantly higher than that. Keep in mind that the subtraction of a starter would free up some cash.

The Sox will need a decent backup catcher, but some of the better options like Vance Wilson and Mike Redmond have been locked up.

Around the infield: Iguchi's option is a no-brainer. But what to do with Juan Uribe? The man had the worst OBP in baseball (though he continued to hit for good power). His glovework is top five in the game for sure.
Kenny Williams could trade Uribe and acquire someone better to play shortstop (if perhaps in a separate deal). Some Sox fans are clamoring for a Michael Young trade if possible. Young, however, is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball. It would be exchanging Uribe's OBP problem (and a ton of young prospect talent) for another problem. You'd still probably rather have Young, but not at the price.

Baseball Prospectus rates Uribe's '06 performance at 2.6 wins, and his 2004 peak at 5.1 wins. Aside from giving up the farm for Miguel Tejada, the Sox could sign Julio Lugo or trade for Orlando Cabrera. It won't be easy if Williams tries to upgrade at short.
Crede's been doing one-year deals, and could go up to five or six million after arbitration. If he elects not to have back surgery, the team may be reluctant to ink him to a multiyear contract. Plenty of teams need third basemen, so feel free to concoct wild trade scenarios. Go ahead, I'll wait.

If the Sox do trade Crede, Josh Fields probably becomes the third baseman. He'd be a step down but might be able to get the job done following a .305/.379/.515 line in Charlotte. Fields did have a weak offensive second half for the Knights though. And you wouldn't want to replace both Crede and Uribe, as the left-side infield defense would be severely weakened. The Sox may very well stand pat at both positions.

Depending on who you ask, something may have to be done about center field. Brian Anderson has his supporters for another shot at center, though he still wasn't league average offensively for his position in the second half. And league average for a CF isn't asking much. We know Ozzie and Juan Pierre have mutual affection, but Williams doesn't feel the love (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/whitesox.asp?id=231854). Other options include Jim Edmonds and Gary Matthews Jr. and, to a lesser extent, Dave Roberts or Kenny Lofton. Maybe a deal for Ryan Freel? No acquisition could top Vernon Wells, but competition will be fierce if he's available. There's no easy answer here, of course.

Left field is more of an agreed-upon problem. The Sox have probably had enough of Pods, so they'll either nontender or trade him. Should Crede stay, Fields and Ryan Sweeney could get a look. Otherwise there's Cliff Floyd (a Chicago native), Moises Alou, David Dellucci, Luis Gonzalez, or maybe even Alfonso Soriano. Or maybe Kenny peddles his one possible surplus, starting pitching, as part of a deal for Manny Ramirez or Carl Crawford. If the Sox want to make another deal with Philly, Pat Burrell is available for peanuts but would have to approve a trade.

The rotation, of course, is six deep. Assuming Williams's six-man rotation idea doesn't fly, someone has to go to make room for McCarthy. Popular opinion is Garcia, who could interest the Mets (and would succeed in the NL). But Buehrle and Vazquez are certainly fair game. KW is good at what he does, and he'll find a way to turn one of these starters into a good outfielder. How about Matt Murton or Luke Scott, to toss out a few names? I'm sure Kenny can do better.

Williams has pledged to add a reliever. Haeger should join the pen if he's not traded; his knuckler would certainly be a change from flamethrowers like Jenks and MacDougal. Hermanson could return at reduced pay, but at least one other proven guy will be imported. Aaron Heilman could be available via trade. Justin Speier could be on the radar. Various free agents (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/09/2007_mlb_free_a_2.html) fit the bill. Maybe the Sox will get creative, grab a guy like Byung-Hyun Kim or Kerry Wood.

It looks like another fun offseason in Chicago, as the Sox have all sorts of ways to play this hand. What would you do?

I think the real author of your first two posts deserves to be credited. Just post a link to the website you got them off of next time.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/10/2007_chicago_wh.html

palehozenychicty
10-04-2006, 11:20 AM
I agree on Freddy. I think he'll get his fastball back and, with his new splitter, will have a huge '07.

I disagree on Heager though. If McCarthy is in the rotation, which means the cost of the starting rotation will be down at least $9mil, I want to see another big arm in the pen for use as a setup man.

***Most importantly*** I want to see KW replace Vizcaino. We need that solid 5th/6th innings eater because the loss of that helped cost us this season. Edit: If that type of reliever costs the Sox 3-4mil per season or more it will be worth EVERY SINGLE PENNY.

We shouldn't need a long reliever and I'd hate to see Charlie trying to find his knuckleball with 1 out and RISP in the 6th inning of a close game.


I agree that the pitching in '07 will be much improved. I think that if KW made no changes to the pitching staff whatsoever we would still be much improved.

With a respectable Vizcaino, we are in the postseason. I also believe that Freddy will rebound with a lengthened offseason and better conditioning. He knows that he is playing for a new deal, so letting him go would be a mistake. Another good arm in the pen e.g. Heilman, Rauch would round it out. I feel that Haegar, Thornton, MacDougal, and Jenks then would be more than enough to win the whole damn thing again!

Flight #24
10-04-2006, 11:59 AM
LF - Pierre (200 hits, 60 SB)
SS - Young (.300, 20 SB, 40 2B, 30 HR)
RF - Dye (.300, 10 SB, 30 2B, 40 HR)
DH - Thome (.290, 30 2B, 40 HR)
1B - Konerko (.290, 30 2B, 35 HR)
C - AJ (.280, 20 2B, 15 HR)
2B - Iguchi (.280, 20 SB, 20 2B, 15 HR)
3B - Crede (.280, 30 2B, 30 HR)
CF - Anderson (.250, 20 SB, 25 2B, 10 HR)

Bench - Stewart (C), Gload (1B), Podsednik (OF), Mackowiak (3B/OF), Cintron (2B/SS)

Starters - Garland, Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Vazquez

Bullpen - Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Haeger, Cotts, Hermanson

* If Texas prefers, trade GARCIA or CONTRERAS instead of McCARTHY.

Frater - your payroll is now: pushing $110M depending on what guys like Jenks, McDougal, Thornton, Crede, Podsednik end up making. You're also faced with losing 40% of your starting rotation after '07. Which is exactly why I don't think any trade involving McCarthy will happen: It hurts the Sox in 2 major ways, payroll and rapid aging/FA of the rotation.

Personally, I'd do the following:
1) Trade Garcia/Vazquez and a AA prospect to the Mets for Lastings Milledge(who they've apparently soured on), Aaron Heilman/Philip Humber, and Oliver Perez
2) Offer Milledge, Heilman/Humber, Broadway & Podsednik to Tampa for Crawford
3) Trade Uribe, Rogowski, and a A pitching prospect to San Francisco for Omar Vizquel
4) Sign Justin Speier $3M) from Toronto and Mike Stanton ($2M) from San Francisco
5) Move Oliver Perez to the 'pen, replacing McCarthy (who goes to the rotation) and providing some insurance for the starters
6) Anderson plays winter ball, focuses on learning to bunt and stealing bases
7) Fields plays winter ball, focuses on LF

Lineup: Crawford (LF)-Vizquel(SS)-Dye(RF)-Thome(DH)-Konerko(1B)-Iguchi(2B)-Crede(3B)-AJ(C)-Anderson(CF)
Bench: Mackowiak, Cintron, Ozuna, Gload, Stewart

Rotation: Garland-Vazquez-Contreras-Buehrle-McCarthy
Bullpen: Jenks-Thornton-MacDougal-Speier-Perez-Stanton

Fields goes back to AAA to play the OF and some 3B and either get called up if Anderson flops (CC moves to CF and Fields to LF), if Crede's back goes out, or if they need to replace Dye (or if Thome gets hurt, he could play RF or 1B with Dye/Konerko moving to DH). Cotts likewise goes to AAA either to getstretched out and try being a starter or to relieve and try to get back to '05.

Total salary should be the same as this year depending on what raises for arb guys are. There's about $5-7M of "slack" in there for that.

The Immigrant
10-04-2006, 12:03 PM
I'm confused by the suggestions that we trade Podsednik - I thought his contract has expired and he's headed into arbitration?

Flight #24
10-04-2006, 12:16 PM
I'm confused by the suggestions that we trade Podsednik - I thought his contract has expired and he's headed into arbitration?
His rights can be traded. The team acquiring him then has the same "offer arb or no" option that the Sox currently do.

Thome25
10-04-2006, 12:25 PM
His rights can be traded. The team acquiring him then has the same "offer arb or no" option that the Sox currently do.

Pods also has no value whatsoever. If they're not going to sign him they won't trade him either because no one would want him.

TB wouldn't want him because they have plenty of young oufielders to play instead of Pods.

I want Mags back
10-04-2006, 12:30 PM
time to spend some $$ on the pen

Flight #24
10-04-2006, 12:48 PM
Pods also has no value whatsoever. If they're not going to sign him they won't trade him either because no one would want him.

TB wouldn't want him because they have plenty of young oufielders to play instead of Pods.

He's got to have some value to someone. If they want - Tampa can have Gload instead (that was really more of a throw-in in the deal than anything). Mack and play 1B,or you can have Fields be the super-sub, getting 1-2 games a week playing for Konerko, Thome, Crede, Dye, CC (or Anderson with CC moving to CF). As long as they don't think the changing defensive positions will hinder his development.

If no one wants him, Sox could just non-tender Pods or keep him as a bench OF/PR. But IMO he'll get $2-3M in arbitration and I don't know that I'd want him at that price.

caulfield12
10-04-2006, 12:53 PM
Frater - your payroll is now: pushing $110M depending on what guys like Jenks, McDougal, Thornton, Crede, Podsednik end up making. You're also faced with losing 40% of your starting rotation after '07. Which is exactly why I don't think any trade involving McCarthy will happen: It hurts the Sox in 2 major ways, payroll and rapid aging/FA of the rotation.

Personally, I'd do the following:
1) Trade Garcia/Vazquez and a AA prospect to the Mets for Lastings Milledge(who they've apparently soured on), Aaron Heilman/Philip Humber, and Oliver Perez
2) Offer Milledge, Heilman/Humber, Broadway & Podsednik to Tampa for Crawford
3) Trade Uribe, Rogowski, and a A pitching prospect to San Francisco for Omar Vizquel
4) Sign Justin Speier $3M) from Toronto and Mike Stanton ($2M) from San Francisco
5) Move Oliver Perez to the 'pen, replacing McCarthy (who goes to the rotation) and providing some insurance for the starters
6) Anderson plays winter ball, focuses on learning to bunt and stealing bases
7) Fields plays winter ball, focuses on LF

Lineup: Crawford (LF)-Vizquel(SS)-Dye(RF)-Thome(DH)-Konerko(1B)-Iguchi(2B)-Crede(3B)-AJ(C)-Anderson(CF)
Bench: Mackowiak, Cintron, Ozuna, Gload, Stewart

Rotation: Garland-Vazquez-Contreras-Buehrle-McCarthy
Bullpen: Jenks-Thornton-MacDougal-Speier-Perez-Stanton

Fields goes back to AAA to play the OF and some 3B and either get called up if Anderson flops (CC moves to CF and Fields to LF), if Crede's back goes out, or if they need to replace Dye (or if Thome gets hurt, he could play RF or 1B with Dye/Konerko moving to DH). Cotts likewise goes to AAA either to getstretched out and try being a starter or to relieve and try to get back to '05.

Total salary should be the same as this year depending on what raises for arb guys are. There's about $5-7M of "slack" in there for that.

#1 is the Mets way overpaying.

#2 is us giving up too much for Crawford. But #2 won't be possible without #1.

Before his last couple of starts, we didn't have a prayer to trade Garcia or Vazquez without sending some cash or giving up a top-tier prospect WITH those guys. But to get back their former top prospect and two possibly solid pitchers for someone's who is not a guaranteed "ace" doesn't make much sense to me. Perez looked like one of the best pitchers in the NL a couple of seasons ago. Teams have learned not to deal that type of pitcher to the Sox...or they're learning (from our success w/ Contreras, Loiaza, Thornton, Jenks).

A month ago, we wouldn't have had a prayer to get Milledge for Garcia or Vazquez.

Flight #24
10-04-2006, 01:22 PM
#1 is the Mets way overpaying.

#2 is us giving up too much for Crawford. But #2 won't be possible without #1.

Before his last couple of starts, we didn't have a prayer to trade Garcia or Vazquez without sending some cash or giving up a top-tier prospect WITH those guys. But to get back their former top prospect and two possibly solid pitchers for someone's who is not a guaranteed "ace" doesn't make much sense to me. Perez looked like one of the best pitchers in the NL a couple of seasons ago. Teams have learned not to deal that type of pitcher to the Sox...or they're learning (from our success w/ Contreras, Loiaza, Thornton, Jenks).

A month ago, we wouldn't have had a prayer to get Milledge for Garcia or Vazquez.

A month ago, the Mets had a healthy Pedro. Now they don't and that combined with Duque may well derail their title hopes. A month ago, they also were giving Milledge lots of time, now he's not even on their postseason roster. Perez is also the guy with 3 of the past 4 years having an ERA over 5.4.

It all depends on how much Garcia salvaged his value in the past 4-6 weeks. Prior to the season, he'd have been worth a package like this (young MR, questionable SP with talent, very good, but not great prospect).

But if #2 is overpaying, then the Sox can get back less for Garcia from the Mets and give that less to the D-Rays. The key Q is whether they can get enough in trade for Freddy to give Tampa for CC. But McCarthy for CC is a bad idea - leaves the rotation too vulnerable short and long term.
You may be right

Murphy10
10-04-2006, 08:25 PM
Juan Uribe is just 3 million to much.

The Dude
10-04-2006, 08:49 PM
Whitesox4ever, the season just ended. You should ban yourself for awhile, you are thinking about this stuff way too much. :smile: :tongue: :cool:

I agree!:tongue:

Chips
10-04-2006, 08:53 PM
I agree!:tongue:


Seconded.

Rockman218
10-04-2006, 09:26 PM
They've got to get rid of Juan Uribe. He get's paid too much for hitting below .250 and dropping pop ups

Frater Perdurabo
10-04-2006, 09:48 PM
Flight #24 put more thought, as well as his knowledge of NL teams (I don't follow most NL teams) to put together a more complicated put potentially more rewarding chain of events that would make the Sox odds-on favorites to win it all.

I'd give my left nut to help get Carl Crawford. I love a 1-2 of Crawford-Vizquel even more.

Flight #24
10-05-2006, 11:50 AM
FWIW, another trade partner could be the Rangers. They desperately need pitching (as usual), and with Teixeira & Young in their primes they might be interested in a veteran. They also happen to have some talented young arms in Volquez, Diamond, Danks. None of these are big-league ready, but if you can deal Freddy or Javy for one or 2 of them, you might be able to package them to Tampa for CC, maybe adding in a Broadway/Haeger and/or Rogo (since they appear to need a 1B).

kitekrazy
10-05-2006, 12:29 PM
What is your logic for a catching change besides AJ's % throwing out runners (which is 90% on Garcia, Contreras and Jenks, among others)?

He's LH, and he's one of the more vocal leaders on this team.

He's in the top third of catchers offensively.

He has a reasonable contract.

Who would you even want to get to replace him?

It's not like there's a group of "available" base-stealing catchers out there.

It's hard enough to find a leadoff hitter for LF/CF or SS...

Not only that but he knows how to call a game. It's like night and day with him and Alomar.

Hitmen77
10-05-2006, 10:01 PM
I'd give my left nut to help get Carl Crawford. I love a 1-2 of Crawford-Vizquel even more.

:KW
"Thanks for the offer. We may hold you to it. Tampa is in desperate need of one of those."

russ99
10-06-2006, 11:24 AM
KW is good at what he does, and he'll find a way to turn one of these starters into a good outfielder. How about Matt Murton or Luke Scott, to toss out a few names? I'm sure Kenny can do better.

Luke Scott is untouchable, he almost hit .400 this season. Maybe if he struggles early on next year he could be dealt.

You might get Astro GM Purpura to deal Jason Lane and a middle reliever (Qualls?) plus pitching prospects (we need 'em and Houston's got some good ones) for Garcia, especially if Clemens & Pettite leavs Houston. Lane had a bad season this year, but he's realy in need of a change of scenery and a everyday spot in the lineup to flourish. He could turn out to be a Dye-like surprise for the right team.

I have to think after listening to Kenny & Ozzie's comments that there's a chance that Pods could be back next year, but my gut tells me it would have to be at a much reduced salary, like around 1M with no guraranteed starting spot. I'm not keeping my hopes up.

:(:

caulfield12
10-06-2006, 12:44 PM
Luke Scott is untouchable, he almost hit .400 this season. Maybe if he struggles early on next year he could be dealt.

You might get Astro GM Purpura to deal Jason Lane and a middle reliever (Qualls?) plus pitching prospects (we need 'em and Houston's got some good ones) for Garcia, especially if Clemens & Pettite leavs Houston. Lane had a bad season this year, but he's realy in need of a change of scenery and a everyday spot in the lineup to flourish. He could turn out to be a Dye-like surprise for the right team.

I have to think after listening to Kenny & Ozzie's comments that there's a chance that Pods could be back next year, but my gut tells me it would have to be at a much reduced salary, like around 1M with no guraranteed starting spot. I'm not keeping my hopes up.

:(:

Umm...if Juan Pierre's going to get $6-7 million, no way Pods settles on a contract like that. He will get at least $2-3 million from another team or through arbitration.