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View Full Version : '07 Opening Day Starter - Jon Garland?


kingpin_rcs
10-03-2006, 04:25 PM
He would have to earn the honor in spring training but why not? He has led the team in vicotries with 18 the last two seasons and he has been the most consistent (despite a slightly shakey 1st half this year).

MB has been the ace each of the last 4 seasons but his struggles this season have put his ace status in question.

PorkChopExpress
10-03-2006, 04:26 PM
I thought it would be our newest ace, McCarthy.

caulfield12
10-03-2006, 04:28 PM
He would have to earn the honor in spring training but why not? He has led the team in vicotries with 18 the last two seasons and he has been the most consistent (despite a slightly shakey 1st half this year).

MB has been the ace each of the last 4 seasons but his struggles this season have put his ace status in question.


It's an interesting question, but I think either Buehrle or Contreras need to go out there from the beginning next year and hold onto that "ace" label. Garland was VERY good this year, but I wouldn't call him a "shutdown" ace either. An ace, to me, is someone who, on any given occasion, can just go out and dominate. Of course, Buehrle doesn't do that either...which is why I think we need Jose to return to form and Buehrle to historical average or better.

Baby Fisk
10-03-2006, 04:30 PM
I say yes. Ol' Giraffe Legs has earned the title of ACE. If any of the others want it, they have to take it back in 2007. Til then, Garland is the Duke of New York, he is A #1.

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2006, 04:44 PM
He would have to earn the honor in spring training but why not? He has led the team in vicotries with 18 the last two seasons and he has been the most consistent (despite a slightly shakey 1st half this year).

MB has been the ace each of the last 4 seasons but his struggles this season have put his ace status in question.I sure can't think of a good reason why not.

eriqjaffe
10-03-2006, 04:56 PM
He would have to earn the honor in spring training but why not? He has led the team in vicotries with 18 the last two seasons and he has been the most consistent (despite a slightly shakey 1st half this year).

MB has been the ace each of the last 4 seasons but his struggles this season have put his ace status in question.But Big Game Freddy had those two really great starts in September!

CaptainBallz
10-03-2006, 05:16 PM
Yes. Contreras earned it after his second half tear in 2005. Garland has earned it after being the ONLY mildly reliable starter through most of 2006.

soxchick20
10-03-2006, 06:16 PM
He would have to earn the honor in spring training but why not? He has led the team in vicotries with 18 the last two seasons and he has been the most consistent (despite a slightly shakey 1st half this year).

MB has been the ace each of the last 4 seasons but his struggles this season have put his ace status in question.

i say yes, jon definitely proved himself this year. yeah, he started off shaky but finished strong. Buehrle, on the other hand, needs to prove that he can do better than his entire shaky 06 season.

Gregory Pratt
10-03-2006, 06:19 PM
No.

Buehrle, please. Or Cy Young on the Chalkboard.

Frontman
10-03-2006, 06:24 PM
All depends on who gets traded, honestly. Although, the "Ace" tag might be Garland's to have, as the rest haven't been that outstanding.

I would say the rotation would be

1=Garland
2=Burhele
3=Contreras
4=Garcia/Vaquez (as I feel one of these two will be the one traded)
5=McCarthy (just doesn't have the endurance yet)

We will have to see, though. If Mark comes back during spring training and is showing the signs of the Mark of old, I'd remain with him as the Opening Day starter. But if spring training goes like its been going now, I'd go with Garland (and pray for the rest to get back into form ASAP.)

Front

0o0o0
10-03-2006, 06:31 PM
No.

Buehrle, please. Or Cy Young on the Chalkboard.

Any reason? Garland earned it, Buehrle didn't.

TDog
10-03-2006, 08:24 PM
I'll wait until at least March to discuss who will be starting opening day for the Sox in April.

soxfanatlanta
10-03-2006, 08:29 PM
He would have to earn the honor in spring training but why not? He has led the team in vicotries with 18 the last two seasons and he has been the most consistent (despite a slightly shakey 1st half this year).

MB has been the ace each of the last 4 seasons but his struggles this season have put his ace status in question.


Garland won the best pitcher title in the second half. If you look at the overall stats for the year...well...sheesh, who is the tallest dwarf again?

buehrle4cy05
10-03-2006, 09:56 PM
IMO, the Sox should go into Spring Training next year with 6 starters (Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, McCarthy, Vazquez/Garcia, free agent/trade acquisition) and Ozzie should tell them that there are 5 spots availible for six guys. Whoever pitches the worst gets cut or traded. Hopefully, that would breed some competition and success out of the rotation for next year.

ondafarm
10-03-2006, 10:04 PM
Only one vote counts in this contest and I haven't seen him posting yet.

In all honesty, I think spring training will have a lot to say about this.

Gregory Pratt
10-03-2006, 10:10 PM
Any reason? Garland earned it, Buehrle didn't.

One bad year does not erase what Mark Buehrle has meant to this franchise for the last five years, and he's more than good enough to handle Opening Day.

Besides, I think Garland is overrated, and nowhere near as good as his win totals tell us. (I'm almost 100% sure that Ozzie feels the same, too, due to the way he talks about Mark. Even when Contreras was throwing like he were 26 again, he never stopped calling Mark his number one.)

Hell, I'll even say something else: Neal Cotts isn't going to revert into a good pitcher again unless he learns new pitches. His 2005 was luck/talent, in that order. Luck runs out. He'll need more talent because his fastballs are not good enough.

Soxfanspcu11
10-03-2006, 10:10 PM
Based on following Jon since his MLB debut, I believe that there is a VERY good chance that 2007 will be Jon's breakout year.

I know that the argument could be made that 2005 or 2006 were his breakout years, and they certainly were terrific. However, I think we are going to see a simply superb 2007 from Jon Garland.

I believe that he will win 24 games and win the Cy Young. I know that people are going to call me crazy, and that's fine, but my basis is in how far he has come in just the past 3 years.

Jon Garland in 2003 was a nightmare, I remember talking to my friends about how he had so much potential, but just couldn't get it together. I thought for sure that he would only last 2 more years in the majors, at the most.

And then in 2004, you saw him FINALLY starting to turn the corner. He slowly started getting away from the big inning, and he stopped nitpicking and nibbling the corners.

And then in 2005, his mental game finally caught up to his physical abilities and he became one of the better pitchers in the league.

And then in 2006, it came together even more. His experience is showing now. I would be hard pressed to name a pitcher that shows more poise on the mound. He has complete confidence in his game, as damn well he should, and he is just going to continue to grow.

Again, I know that people will call me crazy, but I believe that he will be the best pitcher in league next year. Calling it now. :cool:

Gregory Pratt
10-03-2006, 10:14 PM
Based on following Jon since his MLB debut, I believe that there is a VERY good chance that 2007 will be Jon's breakout year.

I know that the argument could be made that 2005 or 2006 were his breakout years, and they certainly were terrific. However, I think we are going to see a simply superb 2007 from Jon Garland.

I believe that he will win 24 games and win the Cy Young. I know that people are going to call me crazy, and that's fine, but my basis is in how far he has come in just the past 3 years.

Jon Garland in 2003 was a nightmare, I remember talking to my friends about how he had so much potential, but just couldn't get it together. I thought for sure that he would only last 2 more years in the majors, at the most.

And then in 2004, you saw him FINALLY starting to turn the corner. He slowly started getting away from the big inning, and he stopped nitpicking and nibbling the corners.

And then in 2005, his mental game finally caught up to his physical abilities and he became one of the better pitchers in the league.

And then in 2006, it came together even more. His experience is showing now. I would be hard pressed to name a pitcher that shows more poise on the mound. He has complete confidence in his game, as damn well he should, and he is just going to continue to grow.

Again, I know that people will call me crazy, but I believe that he will be the best pitcher in league next year. Calling it now. :cool:

Wow. 24 games and win the Cy Young.
And here I was thinking that Cy Young on the Chalkboard would be that guy.

Seriously, though. It be nice if you turn out to be right but you won't. Sorry, have to break it to you now.

Jjav829
10-04-2006, 12:16 AM
Only one vote counts in this contest and I haven't seen him posting yet.

:redface: I appreciate the thought and now that I'm here, I say it will be Dontrelle Willis...or Jon Garland.

Gregory Pratt
10-04-2006, 12:32 AM
If Buehrle is still with the team and is healthy, it will be him. Those of you who BELIEVE it'll be Jonny Hollywood are very much mistaken.

FedEx227
10-04-2006, 10:01 AM
If Buehrle is still with the team and is healthy, it will be him. Those of you who BELIEVE it'll be Jonny Hollywood are very much mistaken.

Then expect a similar result to the 2006 Sox if we think Buehrle is our no.1 ace.

If anyone has gotten farther with less talent its Buehrle, heres a guy with no real great pitches, no velocity who saw his home run total reach an all-time high, his strikeouts reach an all-time low, etc.

I'd much rather take the man who in all the same games as Mark Buehrle had:
-10 less homeruns allowed
-12 less runs given up
-14 more strikeouts
-Much better ERA and WHIP, by a very very large margin.

Overrated?

kevingrt
10-04-2006, 10:08 AM
I'll wait until at least March to discuss who will be starting opening day for the Sox in April.

We have a long ways to go till opening day. I will be with TDog on this one and just wait.

Gregory Pratt
10-04-2006, 11:07 AM
Then expect a similar result to the 2006 Sox if we think Buehrle is our no.1 ace.

If anyone has gotten farther with less talent its Buehrle, heres a guy with no real great pitches, no velocity who saw his home run total reach an all-time high, his strikeouts reach an all-time low, etc.

I'd much rather take the man who in all the same games as Mark Buehrle had:
-10 less homeruns allowed
-12 less runs given up
-14 more strikeouts
-Much better ERA and WHIP, by a very very large margin.

Overrated?

Tell Ozzie that when Mark is opening the season for us and not Jonny Hollywood.

I want Mags back
10-04-2006, 12:37 PM
he should be, but im sure Oz will give Buehrle the honors again

slavko
10-04-2006, 12:45 PM
Tell Ozzie that when Mark is opening the season for us and not Jonny Hollywood.

If anyone in this discussion is being overrated based on performance, it is Mark Buerhle. His situation is similar to Neal Cotts, even though you see them as opposite. If neither one gets back his fastball, they're both toast.

Don't tell me what he did 5 years ago. Tell what he is now.

oeo
10-04-2006, 02:01 PM
Any reason? Garland earned it, Buehrle didn't.

Buehrle 'earned' it by giving us 5 years of great pitching before. The Twins always had Brad Radke out there on opening day and he wasn't necessarily their best pitcher from the year before.

It's Buehrle's honor to lose, and IMO, one bad year does not refute it.

skottyj242
10-04-2006, 02:11 PM
I don't care who is the starting pitcher as long as Ross Gload is on the bench we'll be all good.

Murphy10
10-04-2006, 08:23 PM
he should be, but im sure Oz will give Buehrle the honors again
Agreed. He really should be starting this game. But I won't be to upset with Mark out there. I have a feeling next season will be a career year for Mark. And it will all start with opening day.

Gregory Pratt
10-04-2006, 09:16 PM
If anyone in this discussion is being overrated based on performance, it is Mark Buerhle. His situation is similar to Neal Cotts, even though you see them as opposite. If neither one gets back his fastball, they're both toast.

Don't tell me what he did 5 years ago. Tell what he is now.

:redface:
How quick you forget.

And, by the way, I said Ozzie understands about Buehrle, because he's talked about Mark as his Ace -- to start the season, midway through, and several times during the rest of the season. He talks about how much he loves the kid every chance he gets.

I'm sure Kenny feels the same way, since he isn't as reactionary as a fan. Read his latest comments: he most certainly feels that way about a lot of fans, and who can blame him, when some of you guys want to forget about five years of great baseball because Jonny Hollywood has had a couple high-win years.

Buehrle 'earned' it by giving us 5 years of great pitching before. The Twins always had Brad Radke out there on opening day and he wasn't necessarily their best pitcher from the year before.

It's Buehrle's honor to lose, and IMO, one bad year does not refute it.

Spoken like a true baseball man(agement)man!

Soxfanspcu11
10-05-2006, 12:52 AM
Wow. 24 games and win the Cy Young.
And here I was thinking that Cy Young on the Chalkboard would be that guy.

Seriously, though. It be nice if you turn out to be right but you won't. Sorry, have to break it to you now.


Well, that's why I said that pretty much everyone would call me crazy. I totally understand that, I mean, I expected that.

But like I said, watching him come of age over the years, I really truly believe that he will be dominant in 2007.

When it happens, just remember that you heard me say it here first.:wink:

slavko
10-05-2006, 01:10 AM
Some of you are confusing the choice of an Opening Day starter with giving a player who has served us well a motorcycle on a day honoring him. If MB or anyone earns it in Spring Training, fine. Otherwise, he's not the choice if you're looking to win games.

Heck, calling him an ace after his 2006 performance may be a KW/OG ploy to dump him during the offseason and get something valuable in return. You don't think they're that smart or devious? I do.

DumpJerry
10-05-2006, 01:11 AM
Only one vote counts in this contest and I haven't seen him posting yet.

In all honesty, I think spring training will have a lot to say about this.

:redface: I appreciate the thought and now that I'm here, I say it will be Dontrelle Willis...or Jon Garland.
I thought he was referring to Hangar 18.....

Actually, the OD starter should be the man who can do it all....Aaron Rowand!

FedEx227
10-05-2006, 09:55 AM
Actually, the OD starter should be the man who can do it all....Aaron Rowand!

he SO would have had that Toriiiiiiiii Hunter catch last night! or... done the exact same thing.

0o0o0
10-05-2006, 10:07 AM
he SO would have had that Toriiiiiiiii Hunter catch last night! or... done the exact same thing.

He would have shown heart and intensity while doing it, so all would be forgiven. :redneck

Gregory Pratt
10-05-2006, 10:51 AM
Well, that's why I said that pretty much everyone would call me crazy. I totally understand that, I mean, I expected that.

But like I said, watching him come of age over the years, I really truly believe that he will be dominant in 2007.

When it happens, just remember that you heard me say it here first.:wink:

Well, I hope you're right, but I'm not going to bank on Jon Garland turning into Pedro Martinez.

slavko
10-05-2006, 12:21 PM
Well, I hope you're right, but I'm not going to bank on Jon Garland turning into Pedro Martinez.

He's well on his way to turning into Kevin Brown, which is, coincidentally, what the Sox said they were going to do with him when they traded for him. (By teaching him the sinking fastball.) Good enough for ya?

spiffie
10-05-2006, 12:30 PM
Garland (2002-2006) - 72-53 (.576) 4.39 ERA

Buehrle (2002-2006) - 77-57 (.575) 3.91 ERA

The difference between the two pitchers is not nearly as great as it would appear over the last five seasons. Garland is the #1 pitcher on this staff at this point and should be recognized as such. Give Buehrle some motivation to reclaim his place at the top of the mountain.

slavko
10-05-2006, 12:34 PM
Garland (2002-2006) - 72-53 (.576) 4.39 ERA

Buehrle (2002-2006) - 77-57 (.575) 3.91 ERA

The difference between the two pitchers is not nearly as great as it would appear over the last five seasons. Garland is the #1 pitcher on this staff at this point and should be recognized as such. Give Buehrle some motivation to reclaim his place at the top of the mountain.

One's arrow is pointing up, the other's down.

D. TODD
10-05-2006, 12:35 PM
There is a long way and lots of spots to earn over spring training etc. I do think Buehrle has the inside track to opening day though. It's his to lose still. But with that said it wouldn't take much for him to lose it after this sub par season. Not a big deal to me anyway, I just hope they both pitch like aces for the season, whereever they are at in the rotation.

Gregory Pratt
10-05-2006, 01:49 PM
He's well on his way to turning into Kevin Brown, which is, coincidentally, what the Sox said they were going to do with him when they traded for him. (By teaching him the sinking fastball.) Good enough for ya?

I, ah, didn't know that Kevin Brown won 24 games and the Cy Young Award.