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View Full Version : Crede As a Number Two Hitter?


Gregory Pratt
10-01-2006, 06:10 PM
Crede's good about putting the ball in play and not striking out. If it were up to me, I'd move him to number two and put Iguchi lower in the order. That'd allow Iguchi to swing for more power and give him more RBI chances as well as make our order more dangerous, IMO.

Any thoughts?

Daver
10-01-2006, 06:11 PM
No.

MarySwiss
10-01-2006, 06:13 PM
Crede's good about putting the ball in play and not striking out. If it were up to me, I'd move him to number two and put Iguchi lower in the order. That'd allow Iguchi to swing for more power and give him more RBI chances as well as make our order more dangerous, IMO.

Any thoughts?

IIRC, they tried dropping Iguchi earlier this year, and it was not a very successful strategy. OTOH, Crede seemed to do just fine right where he was.

Domeshot17
10-01-2006, 06:21 PM
NO, You dont want the top of your order to be cloggers, hitting infront of cloggers, Crede should hit between 6-8 barring a trade of Thome Konerko AJ or Dye

Gregory Pratt
10-01-2006, 06:26 PM
I, ah, wasn't under the impression that Iguchi was particularly fast.

As for "we tried Iguchi there" that was in Spring Training. Guillen has said before that he'd like to move Iguchi down, if he can find a suitable replacement. Them keeping Iguchi there has more to do with Uribe's inability to be a number two hitter than Gooch's ability to hit lower in the order.

I think it's an interesting idea, if nothing more.

DaleJRFan
10-01-2006, 06:31 PM
He is a contact hitter who doesn't strike out a lot, but when he is making outs, they are usually weak popups. Can't have your 2 hitter popping up when the leadoff man is running (hit-and-run, SB, etc). Crede is a power hitter. He needs to stay in the middle of the order.

Gregory Pratt
10-01-2006, 06:33 PM
He is a contact hitter who doesn't strike out a lot, but when he is making outs, they are usually weak popups. Can't have your 2 hitter popping up when the leadoff man is running (hit-and-run, SB, etc). Crede is a power hitter. He needs to stay in the middle of the order.

Which one is it?

I think he's a contact hitter with power. A good hitter, all around. I'm sure he could do fine in the number two spot.

DaleJRFan
10-01-2006, 06:37 PM
Which one is it?

Is there a categorization for being a "power hitter who doesn't strike out a lot" that I am unaware of? Sure, he doesn't K a lot, but so what? hitting a broken bat foul out to the third baseman is just as ineffective as striking out.

I think he's a contact hitter with power. A good hitter, all around. I'm sure he could do fine in the number two spot.

I don't get your argument, at all. Why waste Crede's power bat taking fastballs and hitting grounders behind the runner? It makes no sense. He should be hitting in RBI situations in the middle of the order and not "move the guy over" situations.

Gregory Pratt
10-01-2006, 06:41 PM
I just think Iguchi'd be better suited for the bottom of the order and suggested that Crede would be a good choice to replace him in the two hole. Who else could fulfill those duties on our team? Anderson?

Sox-o-matic
10-01-2006, 06:42 PM
He's slow.
He doesn't bunt.
His offensive production is too valuable to be sacrificed in trying to advance a runner.

So, no.

SOXSINCE'70
10-01-2006, 06:45 PM
:hawk
"No".

DaleJRFan
10-01-2006, 06:46 PM
I just think Iguchi'd be better suited for the bottom of the order and suggested that Crede would be a good choice to replace him in the two hole. Who else could fulfill those duties on our team? Anderson?

The problem this year with the Sox 1-2 combo of Pods & Iguchi was fairly easy to see... When Pods got on base (which wasn't very often) the league learned the second time around that Iguchi was vulnerable to the high fastball. Throw Iguchi a high fastball and the odds of him making contact weren't very good. A high fastball is exactly what a catcher needs to throw out a base stealer. Two outs with one pitch, case closed. The Sox need to find a #2 hitter who can hadle the high fastball.

Sox-o-matic
10-01-2006, 06:46 PM
I just think Iguchi'd be better suited for the bottom of the order and suggested that Crede would be a good choice to replace him in the two hole. Who else could fulfill those duties on our team? Anderson?

Tadahito I think would have done a much better job had Podsednik gotten on base and ran with confidence this season. Also, having strikeout/groundout/flyout/HR Jim Thome behind him for most of the season kind of took away from what he did last year as well.

I think in a perfect world Ozzie would like to have two speedy leadoff type hitters at the top of the lineup who are fundamentally capable, but in order to get that other guy the Sox would have to make a trade. In reality, I'd imagine Iguchi will be back there again next year.

Norberto7
10-01-2006, 06:47 PM
Crede also makes an unusually high percentage of his outs from fly balls (about 1.7 fly-outs per a ground-out). Which is fine if the leadoff hitter is hitting a lot of triples, but could really limit the productive outs with the leadoff man on first.

DaleJRFan
10-01-2006, 06:48 PM
Who else could fulfill those duties on our team? Anderson?

I think you'd be onto something here, if Ozzie would let Anderson play! :angry: In the second half, he had a lot of quality atbats, making good contact and hits the ball on the ground. He runs very well and is also a very good baserunner.

Gregory Pratt
10-01-2006, 06:52 PM
I think you'd be onto something here, if Ozzie would let Anderson play! :angry: In the second half, he had a lot of quality atbats, making good contact and hits the ball on the ground. He runs very well and is also a very good baserunner.

I really disagree with that assessment, but I don't care for Anderson at all, so...::shrug::

I have a feeling he'll be gone, replaced by Pierre and Podsednik replaced by Sweeney.

I'm willing to admit, though, that it'd likely not be a good idea to put Crede at second. I was just wondering about it, and checking out other people's thoughts.

Grzegorz
10-01-2006, 06:54 PM
Crede??? No for many of the reasons stated above.

Anderson??? Maybe... If he proves he can handle the bat and makes much better contact than he did this year.

DaleJRFan
10-01-2006, 06:59 PM
I really disagree with that assessment, but I don't care for Anderson at all, so...::shrug::

I'm with you 100%... I was just answering who from the current team other than Iguchi could fit in the 2 hole.

Brian Anderson = Eric Byrnes

2007 starting SS and #2 hitter, Michael Young :D:

esbrechtel
10-01-2006, 07:19 PM
He's slow.
He doesn't bunt.
His offensive production is too valuable to be sacrificed in trying to advance a runner.

So, no.

Crede is my favorite player but these few things seem to answer the question perfectly....i dont want joe taking pitches every AB to try and allow someone to steal....and i am all for young in 07.....

Frater Perdurabo
10-01-2006, 07:30 PM
2007 starting SS and #2 hitter, Michael Young :D:

I hope and pray you are right. I think he could hit .300+, 30 HRs, 40 2Bs and steal 20 bases out of the #2 spot. Put a guy like Juan Pierre ahead of him, and we'll see the Sox score lots of runs in the first inning.

In that situation, I'd drop Iguchi to 7th and bat Crede 8th. Iguchi injects a bit of speed after the Thome-Konerko-AJ three-toed sloth, and Crede will be able to drive Iguchi home.

California Sox
10-01-2006, 11:25 PM
No to Crede. If he makes the team, Sweeney is well-suited to hit #2, but that's a big if.

I would love to get Young, but he's great defensively... as a second baseman. I'm not sure you can win a championship with him at short.

SOXandILLINI
10-01-2006, 11:31 PM
Crede's good about putting the ball in play and not striking out. If it were up to me, I'd move him to number two and put Iguchi lower in the order. That'd allow Iguchi to swing for more power and give him more RBI chances as well as make our order more dangerous, IMO.

Any thoughts?
i am astounded by this board sometimes, actually quite often............................................. NO.. NO.. NO... i finally found someone that i wouldn't replace ozzie with...thx.

chisoxmike
10-01-2006, 11:35 PM
Hell no.

thomas35forever
10-01-2006, 11:40 PM
No. Iguchi stays right where he is.

the gooch
10-02-2006, 10:58 AM
The problem this year with the Sox 1-2 combo of Pods & Iguchi was fairly easy to see... When Pods got on base (which wasn't very often) the league learned the second time around that Iguchi was vulnerable to the high fastball. Throw Iguchi a high fastball and the odds of him making contact weren't very good. A high fastball is exactly what a catcher needs to throw out a base stealer. Two outs with one pitch, case closed. The Sox need to find a #2 hitter who can handle the high fastball.
This was the idea behind Uribe batting second, but he was crappy even for a bottom of the order guy this season. As for Anderson, hasn't he always struck out a lot? I think we are seeing what we are going to get when it comes to Anderson's contact.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-02-2006, 11:42 AM
Crede would be a great in the five hole. His RBI numbers would be better than Konerko's in that spot, in my opinion.

I would rather get someone like Gary Matthews for the two (or one) hole.

TDog
10-02-2006, 04:11 PM
Carlton Fisk turned out to be a good No. 2 hitter for about half a season. But, really, if everyone is hitting, it doesn't really matter what order they're hitting in.

likeawarlord
10-02-2006, 06:46 PM
Which one is it?

I think he's a contact hitter with power. A good hitter, all around. I'm sure he could do fine in the number two spot.

he's a fine hitter, to be sure, but he only drew 28 walks in 545 at-bats and his .322 obp is way too low for a 1 or 2 hitter.

Britt Burns
10-02-2006, 08:52 PM
Um, no.

shoelessshaun27!
10-02-2006, 09:09 PM
I liek Crede where he was, i can't see him at the top of the line up.

Norberto7
10-02-2006, 09:13 PM
...and his .322 obp is way too low for a 1 or 2 hitter...


:pods:

"Damn right..."

likeawarlord
10-03-2006, 03:01 PM
:pods:

"Damn right..."

or, better yet...

well, i can't find a good image of julio ramirez. but if i could, i'd post that and say something funny.

hold2dibber
10-03-2006, 06:05 PM
I hope and pray you are right. I think he could hit .300+, 30 HRs, 40 2Bs and steal 20 bases out of the #2 spot. Put a guy like Juan Pierre ahead of him, and we'll see the Sox score lots of runs in the first inning.

In that situation, I'd drop Iguchi to 7th and bat Crede 8th. Iguchi injects a bit of speed after the Thome-Konerko-AJ three-toed sloth, and Crede will be able to drive Iguchi home.

Excuse me while I wipe the drool off my keyboard. That line-up (Pierre, Young, Dye, Thome, Konerko, AJ, Iguchi, Crede, Anderson/Podsednik) would be virtually unstoppable.

MISoxfan
10-04-2006, 10:34 AM
Crede would be a great in the five hole. His RBI numbers would be better than Konerko's in that spot, in my opinion.

I would rather get someone like Gary Matthews for the two (or one) hole.

Konerko has more power and a better eye than Crede. Crede has a better ...glove.

I don't think Crede would out perform Konerko in the 5 spot.

I want Mags back
10-04-2006, 12:38 PM
baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad idea

slavko
10-04-2006, 01:02 PM
Crede as a second hitter? What does this say about team speed? Do we have eyes? Crede is slower on the bases than AJ. We are a very slow team. Look at how even the big boppers on the Twins can run the bases. We (including Ozzie) have fallen in love with the home run. Smartball, if it ever existed, is a distant memory.

How many base-cloggers can a team afford, even if they can hit? Since they didn't win anything this year, it may be time to reassess what we have and exchange some of the parts for parts that can run. Are you tired of two hits and a walk resulting in the bases loaded with guys who need a double to score from second base? I am. The aforementioned double happens too infrequently.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-04-2006, 02:01 PM
Konerko has more power and a better eye than Crede. Crede has a better ...glove.

I don't think Crede would out perform Konerko in the 5 spot.

Crede struck out less than Konerko by double, 104-58, so I would not say Konerko has a better eye or makes contact better than Crede. Konerko walked more, yes, but Konerko only walked 60 times to Crede's 28, or about one more walk every five games. They saw about the same number of pitches at bat, 3.89 for Konerko to 3.67 for Crede, so Konerko was not taking the pitcher deeper into counts than Crede.

Konerko hit 5 more HRs than Crede, but Crede's numbers are on the rise. I think Crede would drive in more runs than Konerko if he were in the 5 hole. (I can't find numbers related to runners in scoring position or runners on base for each hitter to calculate those stats.)