PDA

View Full Version : The REASON we lose to the Twins, here he is...


caulfield12
09-29-2006, 03:00 PM
http://www.citypages.com/databank/27/1346/article14739.asp

Never even heard of this guy, he looks like he could be Jerry Krause's cousin.

Great article, lots of insightful information for the "talent/draft/development/organizational philosophy" types out there.

Interesting tidbit, the Cubs were a serious player to go after Pierzynski in 2003 before the Giants put together the deal with Nathan/Bonser/Liriano.

The most detailed insight into that trade I've seen so far.

We need to "steal" this guy from the Twins, if KW's ego would ever allow it.

chisoxmike
09-29-2006, 03:05 PM
I do think the Twins have great scouts. They sure know how to address talent in the minors in their farm system and the farms of other teams. You sometimes see a trade they make for some minor league players and you think "They wanted these guys??"

Also, I think our scouts that scout other teams had some to do with our lack of preperation this season.

caulfield12
09-29-2006, 03:13 PM
I do think the Twins have great scouts. They sure know how to address talent in the minors in their farm system and the farms of other teams. You sometimes see a trade they make for some minor league players and you think "They wanted these guys??"

Also, I think our scouts that scout other teams had some to do with our lack of preperation this season.

http://citypages.com/databank/27/1346/article14727.asp

Another article that's just as good that lays out Ryan's thoughts on his organization and their philosophy...

Put a gold star on this for KW...
"But when you've got hitters who know what they're doing, who are somewhat patient and disciplined toward the strike zone, you're probably going to extend innings and get into bullpens and do all the stuff that's conducive to offense (talking about high OBP). We've had trouble over the years with some of that. It's something I've always tried to improve upon in putting a lineup out there. But you're right, we've got a little more threat one-through-nine than we've had in the recent past."

"....there was a little bit different look to the club. There was a little more speed, a little more range, and that range factor improved our defense some. We were hitting better, and our runners were going first to third and second to home on a consistent basis. We had a little bit more production one-through-nine instead of just a couple of spots. Neshek came up, and he's been a very valuable guy in the bullpen. A lot of things happened. There's not just one area—it wasn't a matter of replacing Tony Batista, for example. I hate to make him the fall guy for this ballclub. There were a number of things that ultimately transpired to give us a whole different look. Tyner came up. It's amazing, all these guys who came up from AAA—they all responded.

caulfield12
09-30-2006, 03:07 AM
Bump Until Kw Starts Taking The Twins Seriously And Fixing His Mess.

If everyone at this site contributed $50 to a general fund and collected it somewhere (with the checks made out to either of these guys with the Twins), I would feel far better if they were on our side than KW keeping Uribe, Pods, Garcia and Anderson on HOPING they change their spots next year.

Our entire organizational philosophy needs to change...not just the execution of Pods, Iguchi and the bottom of the order for one season and one POSSIBLY FLUKE year of overachievement from the pitching staff (Contreras, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, Jenks, etc.)

southside rocks
09-30-2006, 08:36 AM
Bump Until Kw Starts Taking The Twins Seriously And Fixing His Mess.

If everyone at this site contributed $50 to a general fund and collected it somewhere (with the checks made out to either of these guys with the Twins), I would feel far better if they were on our side than KW keeping Uribe, Pods, Garcia and Anderson on HOPING they change their spots next year.

Our entire organizational philosophy needs to change...not just the execution of Pods, Iguchi and the bottom of the order for one season and one POSSIBLY FLUKE year of overachievement from the pitching staff (Contreras, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, Jenks, etc.)

The organizational philosophy that brought three straight winning seasons, including a World Series Championship, needs to change?!?!

Does not compute. :?:

ma-gaga
09-30-2006, 08:38 AM
If everyone at this site contributed $50 to a general fund and collected it somewhere (with the checks made out to either of these guys with the Twins), I would feel far better if they were on our side than KW keeping Uribe, Pods, Garcia and Anderson on HOPING they change their spots next year.

yeah. Good luck with that. You should write Kenny an email telling him of this plan.

caulfield12
09-30-2006, 09:38 AM
The organizational philosophy that brought three straight winning seasons, including a World Series Championship, needs to change?!?!

Does not compute. :?:

The odds are greater if you create an organization that is built consistently to reach the playoffs...the Braves, the Yankees, Cardinals, Twins, A's, Red Sox, Angels. There are no guarantees (see the 90's Indians or the recent Twins and A's), but you cannot win it all if you don't make it, just as there are teams like the Marlins that were constructed for one season and then dismantled.

This Twins' team would have been the favorite to win it all had Liriano not been hurt. That's bad luck, not planning. They would have 100-102 wins, at least.

Frater Perdurabo
09-30-2006, 12:10 PM
Combine the kind of scouting and player development that the Twins do (as outlined in the article) with the resources the Sox have, and there is the recipe for a flat-out dominant team.

jabrch
09-30-2006, 12:31 PM
Non-sense


We got beat by the twins because of better execution. It really is much simpler than some here are making it out to be.\

Kenny assembled a team that was absolutely good enough to win it. It was a better team than the one that did last year. Had they executed as well as last year, this team would not have missed the playoffs.

Pinning the Twins success on the front office completely sells short the dominance in execution that they get from their players. At the end of the day, it is hardly ever the most talented team that wins - it is the one that plays the best.

Frater Perdurabo
09-30-2006, 12:40 PM
Pinning the Twins success on the front office completely sells short the dominance in execution that they get from their players. At the end of the day, it is hardly ever the most talented team that wins - it is the one that plays the best.

But maybe, just maybe, their extra level of attention to detail helps them find players who are more likely to execute and play best in crucial situations.

caulfield12
09-30-2006, 01:15 PM
But maybe, just maybe, their extra level of attention to detail helps them find players who are more likely to execute and play best in crucial situations.


The White Sox were too good, or were allowed to think they were TOO good...to NEED to execute. Then they couldn't do it when it was important down the stretch. This team was so confident they felt they could just turn it on and off. Twins' teams always play like the 2005 Sox because they have no margin for error and need every run they can get, and often scratch and claw to get those runs.

Or another way to think of it is OUR method works 20% of the time and their more solid, fundamental approach works 80% of the time. Obviously we won, but their method is more sound as a theory for an organization.

Why haven't White Sox teams (with last year being the exception) been able to execute consistently?

Parrothead
09-30-2006, 02:09 PM
If you are talking scouts, I want the whole crew from the Marlins. These guys keep replacing guys with people who can play. And they did it in the Expos days too.

DSpivack
09-30-2006, 02:45 PM
Meh, what have the Twins done in the playoffs the last 5 years? I'd rather make it once and win it than win the division 4 out of 5 and barely get to the ALCS.

caulfield12
09-30-2006, 03:55 PM
Meh, what have the Twins done in the playoffs the last 5 years? I'd rather make it once and win it than win the division 4 out of 5 and barely get to the ALCS.


Because if we combined their organizational philosphy with KW's savvy in terms of making trades (something Ryan almost never does) and our revenue-producing ability in Chicago, you would have a miniature-Yankees and not a team that pops its head up once every 5 or 10 years.