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View Full Version : EXCELLENT column from Southtown today...


chisoxmike
09-28-2006, 04:08 PM
Read...

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/news/kadner/76353,1PKD1-28b.article

MarySwiss
09-28-2006, 04:11 PM
Read...

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/news/kadner/76353,1PKD1-28b.article

EXCELLENT is right! He nailed it.

palehozenychicty
09-28-2006, 04:17 PM
All of it is spot on. The Sox can own this division with the right scouting structure and keen spending. And to supplement the last point of the Indians being a trendy pick, Neyer already claimed the Indjuns as a favorite for next year. :rolleyes: Their run differential is so amazing, that defense, starting pitching, and a bullpen don't mean anything.

hsnterprize
09-28-2006, 04:27 PM
I agree with the author somewhat. And it's NOT just a White Sox thing...it seems like Chicago sports fans in general love to "live in the past" since championships and such don't happen to often here. I fully respect the fact that it's not easy to repeat as baseball champions...it's not like 1/2 of MLB qualifies for playoff spots like the NBA or NHL. But at the same time, we Sox fans, while happy about 2005, should NOT be content with a 1-win wonder team. If Kenny, and Jerry, and Ozzie can kick, scratch, and claw to try to win another title, then why should our standards be and less.

In fairness, I don't think Phil Kadner read a lot of the here on WSI when the Sox were fading into inevitiable mediocrity. Sure, a 90+ win season is great for a lot of teams in MLB, but the Sox were EXPECTED to contend for another title, not "rebuild" like so many other teams in the league often do. Me and a lot of other Sox fans on this site were more than upset when the Sox failed to make playoffs. We'll expect our team to make another run at post-season glory next year...if for any other reason...so show fans of other squads (primarily that goofball squad based on the north side) that 2005 wasn't a "one-year wonder". Consistent contention for excellence is what I and a lot of us on WSI want, and we won't accept anything less.

SoxFan76
09-28-2006, 04:28 PM
Another great article from the Southtown.

I'll admit, I'm one of those fans who was almost...content with this season. I figured if this is the price to pay for a World Series, so be it. It's not the right way to think, especially considering the Braves won all those Division Championships in a row (as it was stated in that article). We SHOULD be greedy as hell.

But I'll tell you what, next year I won't be satisfied unless there's another banner hanging at Sox Park. The Sox have the opportunity of a lifetime here: develop the next true dynasty. Money, a great fan base, a great park, a great team, great manager, great GM, a great owner who has won 7 professional championships in 15 years, there's no excuse for a third place finish.

goon
09-28-2006, 04:30 PM
great article, i like how he mentions how the sox have the ability to become the yankees of the AL Central. i've felt that way for the last few years.

Fungo
09-28-2006, 04:35 PM
The article is good, but it loses some luster with a couple lines...

It’s the fan base that seems content with a one-year winning streak.

But most South Siders seem stuck in pre-2005 cheerleading mode.

Really? I haven't met one yet. All the Sox fans I talk to wanted it just as bad this year.

PatK
09-28-2006, 04:36 PM
I dunno, it kind of seems like another article that rips on Sox fans.

voodoochile
09-28-2006, 04:39 PM
Excellent article. I agree with it all.

The good thing is it won't take much of a tweek to get this team back to the playoffs. There is plenty of talent on it and there are some good young kids up and coming to boot. If the Sox can get back to 20 games over in July/August, they are going to be in the hunt and even if they brought the entire team back, they should be able to do that again, the question is what moves will they make. I expect a blockbuster this off-season from KW to give the team the parts they need to be that perennial powerhouse.

Hitmen77
09-28-2006, 04:49 PM
I dunno, it kind of seems like another article that rips on Sox fans.

Yeah, since the White Sox are eliminated and there's nothing we can do about it, I'm not sure what he wants us fans to do.

Pretend '05 never happened? Refuse to go to any more games next year? :?:

Sox-o-matic
09-28-2006, 05:11 PM
I don't think there are fans out there who accept failure because of last year's success. I guess that is what this guy thinks, but it sounds like BS to me.

I agree with his points and I'd imagine 90% or more of Sox fans agree with just about every one of them. I just think that fans are much more at ease with a disappointing season now because they know what KW and Ozzie are capable of, they trust them to make the right decisions about the ballclub, and most importantly, they now have evidence that the long-hated owner will open up the checkbook in order to win.

chisoxmike
09-28-2006, 05:12 PM
Yeah, since the White Sox are eliminated and there's nothing we can do about it, I'm not sure what he wants us fans to do.

Pretend '05 never happened? Refuse to go to any more games next year? :?:

He's asking Sox fans not to give the "It's ok, we'll always have 2005." attitude for the rest of the offseason. Becuase it's NOT ok that this team didn't go to the playoffs. Me,along with other SOX fans believe that this team along with last years Champions, could've been the start of something very special...domination of the AL Central and potential to have a team playing deep into October for a few years, instead they fell flat on their face. There is no doubt in my mind that that Sox will contend next year and perhaps make it back to the postseason in 2007, but still, this season was a epic disapointment, especially since it seemed like the Sox didn't lose their magic in the first half of the season.

Sox-o-matic
09-28-2006, 05:23 PM
I agree with the author somewhat. And it's NOT just a White Sox thing...it seems like Chicago sports fans in general love to "live in the past" since championships and such don't happen to often here. I fully respect the fact that it's not easy to repeat as baseball champions...it's not like 1/2 of MLB qualifies for playoff spots like the NBA or NHL. But at the same time, we Sox fans, while happy about 2005, should NOT be content with a 1-win wonder team. If Kenny, and Jerry, and Ozzie can kick, scratch, and claw to try to win another title, then why should our standards be and less.

In fairness, I don't think Phil Kadner read a lot of the here on WSI when the Sox were fading into inevitiable mediocrity. Sure, a 90+ win season is great for a lot of teams in MLB, but the Sox were EXPECTED to contend for another title, not "rebuild" like so many other teams in the league often do. Me and a lot of other Sox fans on this site were more than upset when the Sox failed to make playoffs. We'll expect our team to make another run at post-season glory next year...if for any other reason...so show fans of other squads (primarily that goofball squad based on the north side) that 2005 wasn't a "one-year wonder". Consistent contention for excellence is what I and a lot of us on WSI want, and we won't accept anything less.



*ALL* sports fans live in the past somewhat and that is what makes all these championship moments so special. You can hang on to them forever.

Fans remember the greatest successes of their teams and look forward to days when they can make comparisions between legends of the past and stars of the future. This has always been how it has worked everywhere. I'm sure Houston Rockets fans reminisce about the days of Hakeem and those two championships just as much as Bulls fans reminisce about the dynasty.

Also, 'consistent contention for excellence' is the same thing every true fan of every team wants, it's just that some are more realistic about it than others.

caulfield12
09-28-2006, 05:24 PM
Read...

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/news/kadner/76353,1PKD1-28b.article


This article isn't totally realistic either.

As soon as we sign Zito or $100 million on that new Japanese hurler, and one of our pitchers breaks down, we're back to Haeger/Tracey/Broadway as our fifth starter.

Unless he's going to contribute $25-50 million per season to our budget.

I understand the thinking and sentiment, but we have to draw even more revenue to make this realistic. If we were the ONLY team in Chicago, there wouldn't be an issue making his statements.

Or we trade for Ichiro and 2-3 years down the line when we have no Broadway, Sweeney, Fields, Anderson or McCarthy (because they've all been traded away) and nobody will take Ichiro's contract, Buehrle's, Contreras', Konerko's, Thome's...and the White Sox fans stop coming because they won't support a losing team, well, I just hope he's around then to throw kudos to KW for trying instead of carping like Mariotti.

Then you might actually see what KW and Ozzie (if both are still around) can do with a true rebuilding project, like the Tigers or the Twins in the late 80's. I'm not sure if either has the patience of a Terry Ryan or a Gardenhire/Tom Kelly.

Living in Kansas City and following football as well, I'm seeing a parallel with the Chiefs. We held onto our offense for one year too long and now it's going to take at least two years of transition to build a great defense with an offense good enough to win games. Like the Sox, the Chiefs never bottomed out, they went through a couple of coaches (after 6 or 7 win seasons) but they never were a 1-4 win team either. The problem, of course, is that going through a couple of seasons like that gives you a chance to build from the minors up with some draft picks like we had in the 80's and early 90's. The Chiefs are a little old in the tooth, and KW has made it a priority to avoid that, which is why I don't see an Ichiro move forthcoming...especially one that sacrifices future seasons and pitching for offense.

Sox-o-matic
09-28-2006, 05:27 PM
He's asking Sox fans not to give the "It's ok, we'll always have 2005." attitude for the rest of the offseason. Becuase it's NOT ok that this team didn't go to the playoffs. Me,along with other SOX fans believe that this team along with last years Champions, could've been the start of something very special...domination of the AL Central and potential to have a team playing deep into October for a few years, instead they fell flat on their face. There is no doubt in my mind that that Sox will contend next year and perhaps make it back to the postseason in 2007, but still, this season was a epic disapointment, especially since it seemed like the Sox didn't lose their magic in the first half of the season.

You'll be able to tell throughout the offseason whether fans are prepared to give a 'we'll always have 2005 attitude' or a 'we'll always have 2005 and we don't care about next year' attitude. Those are the only two types of attitudes available, because all Sox fans will always have 2005.

If KW doesn't improve the ballclub, you'll see a Sox fan anger everywhere, and I guarantee that no one will be talking about how they don't care since we won in '05.

Martinigirl
09-28-2006, 05:32 PM
I love this line:

I’ve been to the mountaintop, and I like the view.

Right after we won, I thought I would never ask for another thing from my team. I finally saw my team as a World Series Champion. But suddenly November started, and we got Thome, and then Paulie re-signed. We saw what Kenny was doing, he was building a team for the present, not the past. I can honestly say the whole, "I can't ask for anymore because we won in 05" flew out the window. By opening day, all I could think of for the team was a repeat. I got greedy, I tasted October Baseball, and I wanted it back, again and again. As the saying goes "Greed is Good"

Having expectations for the team is a good thing. If you are willing to accept less than the best, that is what you will get (see the other Chicago team). The Sox organization isn't willing to accept that, yet a portion of the fanbase is.

Just because you are not still basking in the afterflow of a year ago doesn't mean you didn't appreciate it. Having legitimate concerns about the teams shortcomings, and the managers handling of certain situations, isn't blasphemy and it is not being ungrateful. Maybe it means you loved the team & the events of last year so much, all you want is to have a chance to do it again?

Lip Man 1
09-28-2006, 05:42 PM
Well done column.

Lip

nysox35
09-28-2006, 05:58 PM
Another great article from the Southtown.

I'll admit, I'm one of those fans who was almost...content with this season. I figured if this is the price to pay for a World Series, so be it. It's not the right way to think, especially considering the Braves won all those Division Championships in a row (as it was stated in that article). We SHOULD be greedy as hell.

But I'll tell you what, next year I won't be satisfied unless there's another banner hanging at Sox Park. The Sox have the opportunity of a lifetime here: develop the next true dynasty. Money, a great fan base, a great park, a great team, great manager, great GM, a great owner who has won 7 professional championships in 15 years, there's no excuse for a third place finish.

Bingo! Awesome post!
The thought of great teams in 2007 & 2008 take SOME of the sting out of this year.

caulfield12
09-28-2006, 06:03 PM
Another great article from the Southtown.

I'll admit, I'm one of those fans who was almost...content with this season. I figured if this is the price to pay for a World Series, so be it. It's not the right way to think, especially considering the Braves won all those Division Championships in a row (as it was stated in that article). We SHOULD be greedy as hell.

But I'll tell you what, next year I won't be satisfied unless there's another banner hanging at Sox Park. The Sox have the opportunity of a lifetime here: develop the next true dynasty. Money, a great fan base, a great park, a great team, great manager, great GM, a great owner who has won 7 professional championships in 15 years, there's no excuse for a third place finish.


The question is, do you think KW or Ozzie should be fired if the White Sox don't make the playoffs in 2007?

If we're to that point, we almost are the Yankees.

Right now, I would say it's 50/50 (in terms of fan sentiment around here) about firing Ozzie and maybe 10-15% would want KW gone if they were unable to make the playoffs again next year.

I also think the situation with Baker, Hendry and MacPhail could have a subtle influence, especially if the Cubs start going in the right direction finally...

nysox35
09-28-2006, 06:05 PM
The question is, do you think KW or Ozzie should be fired if the White Sox don't make the playoffs in 2007?

If we're to that point, we almost are the Yankees.

Right now, I would say it's 50/50 (in terms of fan sentiment around here) about firing Ozzie and maybe 10-15% would want KW gone if they were unable to make the playoffs again next year.

I also think the situation with Baker, Hendry and MacPhail could have a subtle influence, especially if the Cubs start going in the right direction finally...

That seems a little harsh. I guess it would depend on the fashion of missing the playoffs, meaning, there is a big difference between what happened this year (90 win season), and finishing .500 or below.
Barring a horrid, horrid year, I want KW and Ozzie back for 2007 and 2008 at the very least.
KW has made a few bad moves in his time, but part of it is due to constraints he was operating under. Given his limitations, he's been one of the very best GM's in the game.

caulfield12
09-28-2006, 06:08 PM
Bingo! Awesome post!
The thought of great teams in 2007 & 2008 take SOME of the sting out of this year.


In order to have the Braves' success, we have to have a YOUNG core of pitching that stays together for 5 or more years, like you saw with Avery, Glavine and Smoltz (then they added Maddux, Schmidt, Millwood, etc.)

Right now, we have Jon Garland, McCarthy and MAYBE Buehrle.

These White Sox teams were designed to win now, with the future (1-3 years important) but more focus on that than the long-term.

Contreras, Vazquez (29 or 30) and Garcia are the ones that have to be replaced...now, next season or two seasons from now.

Right now, the only other starters we have in the pipeline are Broadway and McCullogh. Neither of them project to be better than a fourth or fifth starter.

So Garland has to stay a solid 3 starter, McCarthy has to be a 2, Buehrle has to return to a 2 or 1 and we need some help from KW to somehow find that next Liriano, Santana, Verlander or Bonderman.

Ol' No. 2
09-28-2006, 06:09 PM
That seems a little harsh. I guess it would depend on the fashion of missing the playoffs, meaning, there is a big difference between what happened this year (90 win season), and finishing .500 or below.
Barring a horrid, horrid year, I want KW and Ozzie back for 2007 and 2008 at the very least.
KW has made a few bad moves in his time, but part of it is due to constraints he was operating under. Given his limitations, he's been one of the very best GM's in the game.The only way to avoid bad moves is not to do anything. I don't care how many bad moves he made, as long as they're outweighed by the good ones. I'd say that's definately been true for at least the last couple of years.

caulfield12
09-28-2006, 06:16 PM
That seems a little harsh. I guess it would depend on the fashion of missing the playoffs, meaning, there is a big difference between what happened this year (90 win season), and finishing .500 or below.
Barring a horrid, horrid year, I want KW and Ozzie back for 2007 and 2008 at the very least.
KW has made a few bad moves in his time, but part of it is due to constraints he was operating under. Given his limitations, he's been one of the very best GM's in the game.


The real question is about the booing (Buehrle and Cotts, in particular) and the "fire Ozzie" (NOW!) crowd. Are they the "true" or "real" core of faithful White Sox fans who've been through ups and downs or are they the ones who are late to the party and hardly remember 1997 or 2002?

Obviously, those fans aren't accepting poor play. But I don't think they represent more than 5-10% of the fanbase, and the majority of these "booers" are probably not lifelong Sox fans IMO.

They are more of the instant gratification crowd I think.

When the worst move KW is made the last two seasons is Javier Vazquez (and that could certainly go any number of directions, jury still out), then things can't be TOO bad. We can go around and around about the middle relievers and Mackowiak/Anderson situations, but KW has been a very solid GM. Most important, he's done everything possible the last five years to put teams on the field (at worst, adjusting at mid-season) that were capable of going far into the playoffs. Unless you're the Yankees, Red Sox and a handful of other organizations, that's pretty good.

The Angels are an organization I think the Sox should look to emulate. Very fan friendly. Making inroads after being a "second sister" for decades. Progressive hiring policies of Hispanics and African-Americans. A World Series here, playoff worthy most years. Sometimes I wish the Sox would be a little less greedy with ticket prices, concessions and parking (look at what LA or the Angels charge, in line with the Royals based on cost of living for that area), but it is what it is.

I also think it's interesting the Sox and Angels are the last two teams not to make the playoffs after winning the WS (not counting the Marlins, there's mitigating circumstances there)...the irony is the new ownership group hasn't won anything, whereas Disney turned down the Garland/Erstad deal and won the WS that same year.

wassagstdu
09-28-2006, 06:21 PM
I am not satisfied with the Sox performance in 2006. I don't live in Chicago so I don't know how many Chicago fans were, but I doubt many were. But at the same time I am not willing to turn on players who contributed to the 2005 Championship just because they are struggling or injured. I won't boo them or call for them to be run out of town on a rail, but that doesn't mean I am satisfied with what happened in 2006.

I think a good part of 2005 was a level of (a) confidence (in themselves and in each other) and (b) hunger that were missing this year. Those are intangibles that win or lose championships. A dynasty like the Yankees or Braves does it on tradition and pride. Can the Sox make that transition from hunger to tradition? We'll see.

One thing is for sure. Just stocking a team with numbers won't do it.

MarySwiss
09-28-2006, 06:30 PM
I love this line:



Right after we won, I thought I would never ask for another thing from my team. I finally saw my team as a World Series Champion. But suddenly November started, and we got Thome, and then Paulie re-signed. We saw what Kenny was doing, he was building a team for the present, not the past. I can honestly say the whole, "I can't ask for anymore because we won in 05" flew out the window. By opening day, all I could think of for the team was a repeat. I got greedy, I tasted October Baseball, and I wanted it back, again and again. As the saying goes "Greed is Good"

Having expectations for the team is a good thing. If you are willing to accept less than the best, that is what you will get (see the other Chicago team). The Sox organization isn't willing to accept that, yet a portion of the fanbase is.

Just because you are not still basking in the afterflow of a year ago doesn't mean you didn't appreciate it. Having legitimate concerns about the teams shortcomings, and the managers handling of certain situations, isn't blasphemy and it is not being ungrateful. Maybe it means you loved the team & the events of last year so much, all you want is to have a chance to do it again?
I agree with every single thing in this post, even the part about a portion of the fanbase being willing to accept less than the best. But I think that is a very small portion--and probably very few of them post here.

The Critic
09-28-2006, 06:32 PM
I'll admit that this year didn't bother me as much as it might have without last year. Being a fan of the defending World Series Champions felt mighty good.
I'll have to wait and see how I feel if the Sox fold in the second half next year, but at least for one season I let myself "live in the past".
I'm not a bit ashamed of it, either. I waited long enough for that title, I was not ready to move past it just yet.
Don't misunderstand - I'm not suggesting that anyone is right or wrong about how you feel about 2006. I'm just saying how I felt.

viagracat
09-28-2006, 06:37 PM
I agree with every single thing in this post, even the part about a portion of the fanbase being willing to accept less than the best. But I think that is a very small portion--and probably very few of them post here.

Right on. I'll be a Sox fan no matter what they do until I die, but that does NOT mean I'm satisfied with a less-than-100% effort, which is exactly what I saw in the second half this year. Watching my 2005 WS DVDs does not mean I'm satisfied with where they're at. If they won the WS 14 years in a row I'd still want them to win the 15th, and so on.

But winning it all last year was nice, and I'll remember it forever. :smile:

thomas35forever
09-28-2006, 06:47 PM
Great article. This is an example of a true journalist.

voodoochile
09-28-2006, 07:15 PM
He's asking Sox fans not to give the "It's ok, we'll always have 2005." attitude for the rest of the offseason. Becuase it's NOT ok that this team didn't go to the playoffs. Me,along with other SOX fans believe that this team along with last years Champions, could've been the start of something very special...domination of the AL Central and potential to have a team playing deep into October for a few years, instead they fell flat on their face. There is no doubt in my mind that that Sox will contend next year and perhaps make it back to the postseason in 2007, but still, this season was a epic disapointment, especially since it seemed like the Sox didn't lose their magic in the first half of the season.

No reason that can't still be the case. Losing one year to two other teams who will both probably win 95 games while approaching or surpassing 90 yourself doesn't mean you failed. It just means you weren't quite good enough.

The Sox are clearly playing for the long haul for the first time in most of our lifetimes. They aren't rebuilding next year, they are reloading and if they make a leap forward in terms of talent again (as they have each of the past several years and which most people expect) they will still be in line to dominate a tough division for years to come.

If the Sox win the division 2 of the next 3 years and win another championship or two, how can anyone say it hasn't been a dominant run?

It didn't work out this year, doesn't mean it's all for naught and all of the hand wringing over not making the playoffs this year (yeah, I hate it too, but what are you going to do?) won't diminish the talent level and change in attitude from the front office.

The Sox are here to stay, let's rejoice in that fact while we still feel a bit cheated by the what if that was 2006...

chisoxmike
09-28-2006, 07:16 PM
The Sox are here to stay, let's rejoice in that fact while we still feel a bit cheated by the what if that was 2006...

:supernana: :supernana:

SouthSide_HitMen
09-28-2006, 07:25 PM
2005 White Sox (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44tb3h-OS1k&mode=related&search=) :cool:

2006 White Sox (http://youtube.com/watch?v=VUNeqx77B1k) :o:

caulfield12
09-28-2006, 07:30 PM
2005 White Sox (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sY622nLpH0) :cool:

2006 White Sox (http://youtube.com/watch?v=VUNeqx77B1k) :o:


For a second there, thought I'd been redirected to a Girls Gone Wild video, lol.

SluggersAway
09-28-2006, 07:47 PM
I wanted to see the team play hard and put the best possible players on the field all year.

Unfortunately, I didn't see it.

chisoxmike
09-28-2006, 07:50 PM
2006 White Sox (http://youtube.com/watch?v=VUNeqx77B1k) :o:


:rolling:

That NEVER gets old.

Grzegorz
09-28-2006, 08:27 PM
I am sorry but I just do not get it...

Does Phil Kadner visit this board? He draws to the conclusion that the White Sox denizen are content solely on the achievements of 2005 based on quotes from two fans?

Most southsiders seem stuck in pre-2005 mode? What population size was sampled to draw to that conclusion? The failure of millionaires to bunt? Phil, did Ozzie ask the millionaires to bunt?

This column is written not for us but past us to KW and Mr. Reinsdorf. He's fanning the flames in the case that if the White Sox sit on their hands this off season that we the fans will storm the front office like the Third Estate stormed Bastille.

This team needs to improve and it looks from a personnel standpoint they will. Anderson and Fields will play winter ball and gain valuable experience in the process.

KW and the organization as a whole have to scout and draft shrewdly. I am not sure on the scouting budget but it should be commensurate with other top-flight organizations. The White Sox have no excuse when it comes to finding talent in Latin America.

KW will make deals this year; whether they're good enough to get the White Sox back into contention only time will tell.

The biggest point illustrated this year was that games are won on the field not a piece of paper.

Brian26
09-28-2006, 08:51 PM
Does this guy always write in this type of one-line style? It's extremely difficult to read.

ws05champs
09-29-2006, 12:04 AM
I don't know what Sox "fans" he is talking about. No one in my family, my extended family nor any of the fans sitting near my seats this season was content with the Sox performance this year. I never heard anyone say:

“You can’t expect to win a World Series every year.”

What did he expect to see from the Sox fans? Riots in the streets? Walkouts of the stadium (like in Baltimore)? Fans boycotting the games?

This column is an insult to the 2.9 million plus fans that attended the games this year and those who proudly wore the Sox colors.

Perhaps he should have talked to real Sox fans before he wrote this column.

nebraskasox
09-29-2006, 12:47 AM
I agree with the part of the article that states that the Sox should be perennial contenders. There is fan support and the money and management and player talent is already there - minus a few pieces.

I disagree with the part about Sox fans accepting this year's disappointment because we have 2005. Judging by this forum, and certainly my own personal reaction, this year really hurts precisely because:

1) we've been to the mountain top and liked the view,
2) KW made the right moves in the off season raising hopes,
3) the first half of the season validated KW's moves, and
4) while we were chasing Detroit most of the time, we also had a substantial wild card lead and appeared to be playoff bound in consecutive years for the first time in team history.

Then the wheels fell off - no hitting when we got pitching, no pitching when we got hitting, etc.

Yah, we have 2005 and that's great. But the bar has been raised and we expected more. It will be tough to watch the Tigers and Twins in the playoffs - especially after 2005 and the first half of 06.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-29-2006, 12:47 AM
:rolling:

That NEVER gets old.

Hopefully the 2007 Chicago White Sox will return (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOuknbvu21Q) to 2005 form. :cool:

(It's as if Elvis could foresee the Farmer / Singleton pairing (or our entire radio market for that matter) nearly 30 years in advance :D: ).

Vernam
09-29-2006, 12:59 AM
But I'll tell you what, next year I won't be satisfied unless there's another banner hanging at Sox Park. The Sox have the opportunity of a lifetime here: develop the next true dynasty. Money, a great fan base, a great park, a great team, great manager, great GM, a great owner who has won 7 professional championships in 15 years, there's no excuse for a third place finish.Here's one: Mediocre farm system that spits out players who can't play fundamental baseball.

I guess it depends on how we define "satisfied." No one is satisfied with the 2005 season, but we just show it in different ways. If the Sox take another step backward next year, I'll be frustrated -- maybe moreso than this year -- but it's not going to start me frothing at the mouth.

Sox fans are a cynical breed, with great justification, so I don't mind trying to balance that out just a bit by not going suicidal at each opportunity. I just hope my support doesn't weaken JR's, KW's, and OG's resolve to win again. :wink:

Vernam

pudge
09-29-2006, 03:17 AM
Great article. This is an example of a true journalist.

Uh, yeah, because there was so much outstanding research and supportive evidence in that fluff piece.

Wow, just wow.

StillMissOzzie
09-29-2006, 04:34 AM
No reason that can't still be the case. Losing one year to two other teams who will both probably win 95 games while approaching or surpassing 90 yourself doesn't mean you failed. It just means you weren't quite good enough.


As I type this, the Twins & Tigers are tied at 95-64. I don't expect either team to lose all three games of their final series, which would mean that Ozzie's target of 95 wins would not be good enough in any event. Since the WC can't play their own division in the first round, the WC winner will play the 96-63 Yankees whether or not the AL Central has the best record or not. Therefore, both the Tigers and Twins are fighting for home field advantage.

Back to the article...yes, I think that the Sox are capable of an Atlanta-like string of post-season appearances, if not outright division championships. But never would I assume that anyone who says, "We'll always have 2005" means that they are satisfied with winning just one. I don't think that he makes that case very well at all.

SMO
:gulp:

Dan H
09-29-2006, 09:30 AM
I didn't see what was so great with the column. First of all, many of us were not happy with this season, '05 or nor '05. And the idea of Jerry Reinsdorf signing a free agent pitcher to a long term contract is wishful thinking.

However, I do like the idea of a strong commitment to winning. Dwindling attendance is no longer an excuse. Let's see how committed this team is to long-term winning.

Hangar18
09-29-2006, 09:42 AM
The article is good, but it loses some luster with a couple lines...




Really? I haven't met one yet. All the Sox fans I talk to wanted it just as bad this year.


Hey that 1st quote isnt as far off as you would think. He just forgot to mention the 2nd part of the argument. Thats the reason theres alot of disagreement between SOX fans currently. Some are satisfied with 06 because we still have 05 to fall back on and why cant we appreciate something and stop complaining and you must not be a true fan. Others say 05 was last year, we need to quit living in the past and go for it every year.

Mind you, this is the first time the SOX fanbase has ever been at a juncture like this in quite some time. I'll bet the fans back in 1918 were saying the same things to each other ......

caulfield12
09-29-2006, 10:15 AM
Hey that 1st quote isnt as far off as you would think. He just forgot to mention the 2nd part of the argument. Thats the reason theres alot of disagreement between SOX fans currently. Some are satisfied with 06 because we still have 05 to fall back on and why cant we appreciate something and stop complaining and you must not be a true fan. Others say 05 was last year, we need to quit living in the past and go for it every year.

Mind you, this is the first time the SOX fanbase has ever been at a juncture like this in quite some time. I'll bet the fans back in 1918 were saying the same things to each other ......


Well, at least the days of "JR is cheap and only cares about profit margin" and KW's buying a house in North Carolina and being "ousted" from power are long gone.

Hangar18
09-29-2006, 10:47 AM
Well, at least the days of "JR is cheap and only cares about profit margin" and KW's buying a house in North Carolina and being "ousted" from power are long gone.


Yes, those days are long gone. Reinsdorf and the organization got a taste of winning. And liked it. Guess its an acquired taste? :cool:

southside rocks
09-29-2006, 10:57 AM
Does this guy always write in this type of one-line style? It's extremely difficult to read.

Yes. It drives me crazy, and I'm actually glad that someone else noticed it. Phil Kadner writes all his columns as a series of one-sentence paragraphs. I have no idea why. :?:

On the whole, though, I like him and I do like the Southtown, to which I'm a daily subscriber. I prefer Nate Whalen's coverage of the Sox to that of Cowley or whatshisname at the Cubune.

mrwag
09-29-2006, 11:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXMc9E-hB3A&NR


This will keep me happy today!

southside rocks
09-29-2006, 11:17 AM
The blog Sox Machine has a reaction to Kadner's column. I think it's pretty good.

http://soxmachine.com/blogs/soxmachine/

Hitmen77
09-29-2006, 12:23 PM
I don't know what Sox "fans" he is talking about. No one in my family, my extended family nor any of the fans sitting near my seats this season was content with the Sox performance this year. I never heard anyone say:

“You can’t expect to win a World Series every year.”

What did he expect to see from the Sox fans? Riots in the streets? Walkouts of the stadium (like in Baltimore)? Fans boycotting the games?

This column is an insult to the 2.9 million plus fans that attended the games this year and those who proudly wore the Sox colors.

Perhaps he should have talked to real Sox fans before he wrote this column.

Maybe he longs for the days of William Ligue and wants us to start attacking coaches.

2005: What's wrong with Sox fans? They're not supporting their team enough.
2006: What's wrong with Sox fans? They're supporting their team too much.

I want Mags back
09-29-2006, 12:31 PM
very good article, finaly some truth in our papers

kitekrazy
09-29-2006, 02:04 PM
The article is good, but it loses some luster with a couple lines...




Really? I haven't met one yet. All the Sox fans I talk to wanted it just as bad this year.

Me neither.

southside rocks
09-29-2006, 02:14 PM
Maybe he longs for the days of William Ligue and wants us to start attacking coaches.


Joey Cora hopes not!

cheezheadsoxfan
09-29-2006, 02:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXMc9E-hB3A&NR


This will keep me happy today!

Thank you so much, really improved my day.:D:

Gavin
09-29-2006, 02:50 PM
I don't think any White Sox fan went into this season saying, "Aw schucks, that was fun! I'm going to go take a nap for the next couple of years." This article makes it sound like those record sellout crowds came for the sideshow antics and ambivalence towards who won the game. We all know that's not so.

Beyond that, of course the pitching sucked and our offense couldn't buy an execution if they lived in Texas.

So basically, eh.

TommyJohn
09-29-2006, 03:26 PM
Maybe he longs for the days of William Ligue and wants us to start attacking coaches.

2005: What's wrong with Sox fans? They're not supporting their team enough.
2006: What's wrong with Sox fans? They're supporting their team too much.


Great one, Hitmen.