PDA

View Full Version : Anyone think KW will make a run at.....


Qdaddy
09-27-2006, 10:59 PM
Daisuke Matsuzaka? Maybe with the recent success of Shingo & Tadihito, Daisuke might want to play for the Sox. If so, do you think KW will or should make a run at this guy?

To be honest I have never seen him pitch, I just hear great things about this guy. Does anyone know what his "out" pitch is? or did anyone see this guy pitch in the baseball classic games? More importantly.....Is he legit? or one year fluke maybe like Shingo?

Let's hear what everyone thinks.

Lip Man 1
09-27-2006, 11:02 PM
Someone posted a link to this guy from You Tube a few days ago. His 'amazing' pitch is something called a 'gyroball.'

I have no idea if he can pitch in the big leagues or not...Kenny's interest may depend on the players asking price.

Lip

caulfield12
09-27-2006, 11:03 PM
Someone posted a link to this guy from You Tube a few days ago. His 'amazing' pitch is something called a 'gyroball.'

I have no idea if he can pitch in the big leagues or not...Kenny's interest may depend on the players asking price.

Lip

It's looking like the same (or more than Zito), so we're talking $15-17 million per season, plus 3-5 years in duration.

Too rich for our blood.

Myrtle72
09-27-2006, 11:05 PM
It's looking like the same (or more than Zito), so we're talking $15-17 million per season, plus 3-5 years in duration.

Too rich for our blood.

Unless you get rid of a couple of people who are taking up a significant part of our payroll...

BiggestFan14
09-27-2006, 11:05 PM
Never heard of him... but if he is not worth the money, it is not worth me trying to pronounce his name. :D

Qdaddy
09-27-2006, 11:15 PM
Someone posted a link to this guy from You Tube a few days ago. His 'amazing' pitch is something called a 'gyroball.'

I have no idea if he can pitch in the big leagues or not...Kenny's interest may depend on the players asking price.

Lip

Did you see or know if he was throwing this "Gyroball" in the WBC? is it a knuckler or something?

samram
09-27-2006, 11:20 PM
Here's (http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2006/060906_mfe_October_06_Gyroball.html) a description of the gyroball.

HotelWhiteSox
09-27-2006, 11:26 PM
There's a lot if you search YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg&NR and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsptUfnhVcc (WBC) and on there it links to others

Lip Man 1
09-27-2006, 11:33 PM
15 to 17 million PER SEASON?

Should that be in teal?????

For an unknown Japanese pitcher?

If what you say is true (and I find that hard to believe...) there's only one team on the planet that can afford that asking price.

Lip

JB98
09-27-2006, 11:36 PM
It's looking like the same (or more than Zito), so we're talking $15-17 million per season, plus 3-5 years in duration.

Too rich for our blood.

Zito isn't going to get that kind of money. Why would this guy?

TheOldRoman
09-27-2006, 11:38 PM
There's a lot if you search YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg&NR and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsptUfnhVcc (WBC) and on there it links to others
And of course, who is he striking out in the first video...
:iguchi:
"I'd like to see you hit it, bitch."

oeo
09-27-2006, 11:39 PM
There's a lot if you search YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdr0N9HDptg&NR and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsptUfnhVcc (WBC) and on there it links to others

Is that Iguchi he's striking out in that first one?

TheOldRoman
09-27-2006, 11:42 PM
Zito isn't going to get that kind of money. Why would this guy?
Are you kidding? Zito is going to get $17mil a year. He is the overhyped, glorified young lefty who has won a Cy Young. Oswalt got a 5 year, $73 mil contract a few months ago. Although Ozwalt it a better pitcher, Zito will get the 2.4 mil more because a) he has won a Cy Young, and b) other teams are bidding on him. Pitching is skyrocketing.

JB98
09-27-2006, 11:46 PM
Are you kidding? Zito is going to get $17mil a year. He is the overhyped, glorified young lefty who has won a Cy Young. Oswalt got a 5 year, $73 mil contract a few months ago. Although Ozwalt it a better pitcher, Zito will get the 2.4 mil more because a) he has won a Cy Young, and b) other teams are bidding on him. Pitching is skyrocketing.

Zito hasn't been pitching that well the second half of the season. He better pitch great in the playoffs if he wants $17 million a year.

caulfield12
09-27-2006, 11:49 PM
15 to 17 million PER SEASON?

Should that be in teal?????

For an unknown Japanese pitcher?

If what you say is true (and I find that hard to believe...) there's only one team on the planet that can afford that asking price.

Lip


I think you might be spoiled by the below market deals we have for Jose, Garland and even Buehrle...compared to the contracts for the likes of AJ Burnett, Millwood, Byrd, Gordon, Howry, Eyre, Beckett, Clemens, Oswalt, etc.

No way he (Zito) signs under $14-15 million.

And I think the Angels, Mariners, Mets, Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox will all be players for the Japanese pitcher. Maybe even the Cubs or Giants if Schmidt leaves.

Sargeant79
09-28-2006, 12:30 AM
Unless you get rid of a couple of people who are taking up a significant part of our payroll...

Even if the Sox could afford him, that doesn't mean they should. Count me among those who think it's not too smart to throw that kind of money at a guy who may or may not be a competent pitcher on this side of the Pacific. Someone will pay him, but it shouldn't be the Sox.

Sox-o-matic
09-28-2006, 12:36 AM
IIRC, any team that wants him has to pay off his Japanese team first for negotiating rights. Then they can strike a deal.

He's got excellent stuff and could possibly help us big time right away, but just be patient. We'll get him in a trade for Heath Phillips after he flounders in NY and then he'll be our ace.

*Edit: I think there's also a bidding process that goes along with it. That means, again IIRC, that KW and Uncle Jerry would have to bid against Steinbrenner. Not happening.

Qdaddy
09-28-2006, 12:38 AM
After watching some clips from youtube.com, I'm sold. Not a lot of solid swings against him. He reminds me of a young Pedro with his delivery and breaking stuff.

ondafarm
09-28-2006, 01:05 AM
I've seen Matsuzaka pitch and at times he can be devastatsing. But he can't throw the gyro ball every pitch and he seldom throws it for strikes. Because of that, he always throws a few hittable pitches in every at-bat, unless you go up there hacking at everything. I don't think he'd perform at the level of Jenks, Rivera, or KRod.

TheOldRoman
09-28-2006, 01:18 AM
I've seen Matsuzaka pitch and at times he can be devastatsing. But he can't throw the gyro ball every pitch and he seldom throws it for strikes. Because of that, he always throws a few hittable pitches in every at-bat, unless you go up there hacking at everything. I don't think he'd perform at the level of Jenks, Rivera, or KRod.
So, what you are saying is that he would no hit the Sox every time he faced us?

Beautox
09-28-2006, 02:24 AM
Someone posted a link to this guy from You Tube a few days ago. His 'amazing' pitch is something called a 'gyroball.'

I have no idea if he can pitch in the big leagues or not...Kenny's interest may depend on the players asking price.

Lip

Matsuzaka has gone on record saying he still hasn't mastered the Gyro Ball and that he can't quite throw it; Most people confuse a Gyro ball with a shuuto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuuto), a pitch he does feature.

but here is a video of Joey Niezer throwing an alleged Gyro Ball (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4R8rYkUWE).

Matsuzaka is the most prolific pitcher of his generation in Japan, hes the real deal. Its going to cost 15+ to just have the rights to post a blind bid for him, in total your looking at 75mil 4-5 years. Both the yankees and mets have reported they will not be pursuing Zito this offseason and have been scouting Matsuzaka heavily.

SABRSox
09-28-2006, 02:49 AM
Put me in the camp to go get him. He can get it up there at 95. Regardless of whether that gyroball will work, he's still going to get MLB hitters out.

StillMissOzzie
09-28-2006, 02:57 AM
IIRC, any team that wants him has to pay off his Japanese team first for negotiating rights. Then they can strike a deal.


That's my understanding as well. IIRC, the Mariners had to cough up 8 figures just to release Ichiro from his Japanese contract, and that is before dollar one of HIS paycheck is factored in. I don't see the Sox in that neighborhood.

SMO
:gulp:

Domeshot17
09-28-2006, 03:27 AM
I think the FA market might come down this year, it all depends on if a bidding war is created by the agents. The mets and yankees both have gone on record saying they wont run at Zito. The cubs will without a doubt. I wouldnt be suprised if Zito just HAS to settle with 12-13 mil a season.

As with this kid, that video was REALLY impressive. That splitter is nasty. Its a splitter with slider movement on top. Plus he is humming it up there at 94-95 late in a game, and it looks like an EXPLOSIVE 95, ala Oswalt. He could come over and have the type of impact Nomo did.

Especially if Kenny did pick up Ichiro, maybe Ichiro and Tadahito could make this guy WANT to come to the white sox, kind of like the closer from the mariners (name im drawin a blank) did with Ichiro.

BigPapaPump
09-28-2006, 07:02 AM
I've seen a couple of his videos on Youtube and looks like he could be pretty good, but it appears he has a pretty liberal strike zone in Japan. Many of those back door pitches I saw wouldn't be called strikes here.

SOXandILLINI
09-28-2006, 08:25 AM
the gyroball looks an awful lot like a screwball, and whatever he wants to call it, it's a damn good one, he throws it at varying speeds, which, when thrown a little softer, causes a more dramatic down and in break to a righty, looks impressive.

34 Inch Stick
09-28-2006, 08:47 AM
I know nothing about him but I do like gyro. He will never have to buy a dinner in Greektown.

Thome25
09-28-2006, 09:26 AM
Remember Grinder Rule No. 7:

7.) Grinder ball requires speed, defense, and discipline. And immigration.

Hangar18
09-28-2006, 10:16 AM
I wont be surprised at all. Kenny will make some moves

kitekrazy
09-28-2006, 03:06 PM
Put me in the camp to go get him. He can get it up there at 95. Regardless of whether that gyroball will work, he's still going to get MLB hitters out.

Yeah but there's no shortage of hitters in the US that can get around on a 95 mile pitch. Plus the Sox like guys who can go 200 innings.

caulfield12
09-28-2006, 03:40 PM
I think the FA market might come down this year, it all depends on if a bidding war is created by the agents. The mets and yankees both have gone on record saying they wont run at Zito. The cubs will without a doubt. I wouldnt be suprised if Zito just HAS to settle with 12-13 mil a season.

As with this kid, that video was REALLY impressive. That splitter is nasty. Its a splitter with slider movement on top. Plus he is humming it up there at 94-95 late in a game, and it looks like an EXPLOSIVE 95, ala Oswalt. He could come over and have the type of impact Nomo did.

Especially if Kenny did pick up Ichiro, maybe Ichiro and Tadahito could make this guy WANT to come to the white sox, kind of like the closer from the mariners (name im drawin a blank) did with Ichiro.

Kaz Sasaki? The closer who went back to Japan? I think he might have been ROY or Rookie Pitcher of the Year.

Because of the negotiating rights AND the salary after that AND the length of the contract, I'm going to guess "no way" would be the White Sox answer.

I can't imagine the pitching contracts will come down much with everyone fighting for the same 5-7 pitchers...for instance, the Yankees sign this guy and let Mussina go, then someone panics and overpays Mussina. It's the trickle down effect. Everyone bidding against each other makes Zito (not unlike a Garland, Contreras, Buehrle) on the Free Market worth $3-5 million more.

And there will always be those same "large market" teams fighting for him...Mariners, Giants, Rangers, Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Angels, Mets, etc. I could see the Cubs' going after a guy like that and stealing thunder away from the Sox...new manager, "healthy" Lee/Prior/Wood/Miller (doesn't matter if it's fantasyland) and signing this Japanese hurler. It will be enough for Cubs' fans to drink the Kool-Aid.

You have all those contracts out there like Burnett, Beckett, Oswalt setting the bar for the next round of FA contracts.

Then you have pitchers like Redman, Kenny Rogers, Byrd, etc., setting the bottom rung...which is the usual range for the White Sox. Someone like Gil Meche, Kip Wells or the equivalent of Vicente Padilla, not a splashy signing.

Sox-o-matic
09-28-2006, 05:48 PM
Then you have pitchers like Redman, Kenny Rogers, Byrd, etc., setting the bottom rung...which is the usual range for the White Sox. Someone like Gil Meche, Kip Wells or the equivalent of Vicente Padilla, not a splashy signing.

None of these guys are improvements. Unless the Sox trade 2 starting pitchers, the Sox will not sign a FA pitcher.

I see the Sox making a play at maybe Gary Matthews Jr. or possibly even Pierre as a left fielder, maybe going after a backup CF, and trying for one or two arms to add to the bullpen. That's it.

caulfield12
09-28-2006, 06:30 PM
None of these guys are improvements. Unless the Sox trade 2 starting pitchers, the Sox will not sign a FA pitcher.

I see the Sox making a play at maybe Gary Matthews Jr. or possibly even Pierre as a left fielder, maybe going after a backup CF, and trying for one or two arms to add to the bullpen. That's it.

I don't particularly want Mathews, Jr., simply because he's not much of a stolen base threat, and, unless he's drastically changed, he's not a great contact hitter either. A little like Corey Patterson in that sense...physical tools but not the right player you can count on to execute consistently.

And I'm of the crowd not ready to throw in the towel on BA yet.

Flight #24
09-29-2006, 02:34 PM
There are rumors that the posting fee for Matsuzaka could run to the $15-20M range, then his contract demands would likely run in the $10M/yr range (think AJ Burnett type of deal).

No chance KW jumps into that unless he's ready to deal 2 of his current starters (which I suppose is a possibility, but seems unlikely).

The good news is that there are also rumors that Zito wants to stay in Cali and the Pads are interested in him & willing to pay. Which could make a Garcia on a reasonable 1-yr deal quite attractive as trade bait.

StatHead21
09-29-2006, 05:52 PM
Someone posted a link to this guy from You Tube a few days ago. His 'amazing' pitch is something called a 'gyroball.'

I have no idea if he can pitch in the big leagues or not...Kenny's interest may depend on the players asking price.

Lip

Same pitch Eric Gagne throws, Guillermo Mota throws it too. Its nothing special but if he's a good pitcher sign him up.

qpropaganda
09-29-2006, 06:41 PM
looking at other japanese prospects...found this video of bobby valentine's squad in chiba...that submarine delivery about 1:27 into it looks insane, actually laughed out loud when I saw it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGq6hZ7ZREE

SluggersAway
09-29-2006, 08:13 PM
The gyroball is a myth. At most, it is nothing but a screwball.

Two Japanese researchers (not pitchers) made it up in a computer simulation, found someone with a good slider to point to as an example (he admits he doesn't throw one), then a video of a kid with a breaking ball on youtube took it viral.

It makes good copy.

jabrch
09-29-2006, 08:26 PM
No - he's not looking to ADD a starter. He's looking to trade one, and add a LF and a SS.