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Gavin
09-26-2006, 02:10 PM
Who do you want to see be flatout ****canned?

I would love to see Uribe gone. His "majestic" 2004 season was best overexemplified by EA's MVP 2005 baseball, where he came out as some sort of stud. I'm honestly trying to think of a time where he had an important hit in the last three months and I'm coming up with a blank. The irony of course is that he isn't any better, or worse, than he was last year. He's just not that good.

Palehose13
09-26-2006, 02:16 PM
Who do you want to see be flatout ****canned?

I would love to see Uribe gone. His "majestic" 2004 season was best overexemplified by EA's MVP 2005 baseball, where he came out as some sort of stud. I'm honestly trying to think of a time where he had an important hit in the last three months and I'm coming up with a blank. The irony of course is that he isn't any better, or worse, than he was last year. He's just not that good.

The problem with dumping Uribe is that what is out there (FA market) isn't an upgrade. Unless a trade is made for an obvious upgrade, I am for keeping Uribe.

Now, the pitching staff...I am probably in the minority who is fine with keeping the starting 5. I want to gut and start over with the bullpen.

I also want to package up McCarthy and get Carl Crawford over here to replace Podsednik.

Gavin
09-26-2006, 02:18 PM
The thing is, I don't care how much Uribe is being paid: it's too much. I know SS is a defensive spot in the lineup, but he's getting older and is nowhere near 2004 performance. Work something out with Crede/Fields and spend that money elsewhere.

INSox56
09-26-2006, 02:18 PM
I'm tired of Juan and Pods, that is all. I could say Cotts, but I dunno...this year seems like a freak occurrance, same with burls.

cheeses_h_rice
09-26-2006, 02:20 PM
One name comes readily to mind:

:pods:

Uribe's defense, IMO, makes up for a lot of his offensive deficiencies.

Mackowiak, Cotts, Riske, and a few others are on the bump as well.

spiffie
09-26-2006, 02:22 PM
The problem with dumping Uribe is that what is out there (FA market) isn't an upgrade. Unless a trade is made for an obvious upgrade, I am for keeping Uribe.
I like Uribe's arm (though his defense seemed shoddier to me this year), but the man is DEAD LAST in MLB in OBP. Name any every day player in baseball and they get on base more often than him this year. If we're going to have a hole in the lineup for glove purposes, I'd rather it be in CF where at least Anderson has potential to keep improving yearly instead of SS where Uribe has been going downhill the last few years.

jenn2080
09-26-2006, 02:24 PM
http://myspace-103.vo.llnwd.net/01138/30/13/1138783103_l.jpg


BYE BYE PODS

SoxSpeed22
09-26-2006, 02:25 PM
After the imminent Michael Young trade, I would like see him bat 2nd with Iguchi hitting lower. He can also use all sides of the field and the bottom of the order will get a boost from having Iguchi there.

whitesoxfan
09-26-2006, 02:26 PM
The problem with dumping Uribe is that what is out there (FA market) isn't an upgrade. Unless a trade is made for an obvious upgrade, I am for keeping Uribe.

Now, the pitching staff...I am probably in the minority who is fine with keeping the starting 5. I want to gut and start over with the bullpen.

I also want to package up McCarthy and get Carl Crawford over here to replace Podsednik.

Agreed on all points. People who say we can get Crawford for only Freddy or Javy are living in fantasy land. McCarthy is going to have to be the main part on our end of the deal to land Crawford.

Uribe really became lazy again this year and it seems like every time he's up, he's trying to hit the ball 500 feet. These problems can be corrected however, and I know Ozzie and Kenny have to realize this as well. Like you said, there is really no good SS's on the market this year for FA's.

If we get Crawford, we won't have to worry about Pods anymore. Like I said, I'm all for giving up McCarthy if we can land a player like Carl Crawford.

palehozenychicty
09-26-2006, 02:32 PM
http://myspace-103.vo.llnwd.net/01138/30/13/1138783103_l.jpg


BYE BYE PODS

:rolling:

That is nefarious and beautiful.

Mickster
09-26-2006, 02:32 PM
If we get Crawford, we won't have to worry about Pods anymore. Like I said, I'm all for giving up McCarthy if we can land a player like Carl Crawford.

Will people stop with all of the Crawford talk unless the post is in deep pink. Crawford is not being made available.

INSox56
09-26-2006, 02:33 PM
I like Uribe's arm (though his defense seemed shoddier to me this year), but the man is DEAD LAST in MLB in OBP. Name any every day player in baseball and they get on base more often than him this year. If we're going to have a hole in the lineup for glove purposes, I'd rather it be in CF where at least Anderson has potential to keep improving yearly instead of SS where Uribe has been going downhill the last few years.

Actually, there is only one player with over 200 ABs that has a lower OBP than Uribe...Vinny Castilla with Colorado...that's pretty friggin sad, I didn't know it was THAT bad.

And I think the rumor is that TB wants a "top of the rotation" pitcher as part of the deal. I don't think Brandon or even Freddy qualify for that.

Lorenzo Barcelo
09-26-2006, 02:34 PM
One name comes readily to mind:

:pods:

Uribe's defense, IMO, makes up for a lot of his offensive deficiencies.

Mackowiak, Cotts, Riske, and a few others are on the bump as well.

I dont know how you can put Mack as one on the bump because he is not a CF and Ozzie puts him there. Rob is an 3b or an OCCASIONAL outfielder. Its not like hes gonna tell Ozzie he doesnt want to play there.

spiffie
09-26-2006, 02:37 PM
Actually, there is only one player with over 200 ABs that has a lower OBP than Uribe...Vinny Castilla with Colorado...that's pretty friggin sad, I didn't know it was THAT bad.

And I think the rumor is that TB wants a "top of the rotation" pitcher as part of the deal. I don't think Brandon or even Freddy qualify for that.
Make it 350 or more plate appearances and it's all about Juan!

Personally, for Crawford I give them any pitcher who isnt Garland. We theoretically made McCarthy an absolute untouchable pitcher for a reason, so if they want one of the other top starters, let them have him, since we obviously valued McCarthy as a potential future All-star caliber player.

esbrechtel
09-26-2006, 02:41 PM
http://myspace-103.vo.llnwd.net/01138/30/13/1138783103_l.jpg





i heard macfarlane toys was making a pods action figure....looks good :D:

soxfan13
09-26-2006, 02:41 PM
Crawford is not being made available.


And you know this how?:?:

North Sox Sider
09-26-2006, 02:42 PM
I would like to see us package Uribe and Garcia or Javier to Baltimore for M. Tejada. Bat him 2nd and move iguchi to 6th. Maybe swing a trade for ichiro and put him in center and move Anderson or sweeney in left. how about having ichiro, tejada, dye, thome, konkero, iguchi, crede, AJP, anderson/sweeney. I now that is too much to ask for but what the hell!!

cheeses_h_rice
09-26-2006, 02:46 PM
I dont know how you can put Mack as one on the bump because he is not a CF and Ozzie puts him there. Rob is an 3b or an OCCASIONAL outfielder. Its not like hes gonna tell Ozzie he doesnt want to play there.

Considering the Sox have 3 options at first base and 2 at 3B already, if Mack can't play the outfield I'd rather not waste the roster spot.

CLR01
09-26-2006, 02:46 PM
Uribe really became lazy again this year and it seems like every time he's up, he's trying to hit the ball 500 feet. These problems can be corrected however, and I know Ozzie and Kenny have to realize this as well. Like you said, there is really no good SS's on the market this year for FA's.

When? He/They have had three years to correct Uribes problems and it still hasn't happened. He has been getting worse.

sox1970
09-26-2006, 02:49 PM
This is going to be unpopular, but I want Thome gone. God bless his 40 homers and 100 RBIs, but the guy can't hit good lefties. In our division, that spells disaster. Santana, Liriano, Robertson, Rogers, Maroth, Lee, Sabathia, Sowers (next year), Redman, and Perez, plus some of the bullpen guys own him.

If the Sox can move Uribe, Thome, Podsednik, and Crede, and get Ichiro and Michael Young, and a better bullpen, I'm all for it. Of course those players have to be available, but I'm just saying I'd be willing to part with these players to have a stronger top of the lineup and pitching staff.

Palehose13
09-26-2006, 02:51 PM
Will people stop with all of the Crawford talk unless the post is in deep pink. Crawford is not being made available.

No. :cool:

INSox56
09-26-2006, 02:53 PM
I would like to see us package Uribe and Garcia or Javier to Baltimore for M. Tejada. Bat him 2nd and move iguchi to 6th. Maybe swing a trade for ichiro and put him in center and move Anderson or sweeney in left. how about having ichiro, tejada, dye, thome, konkero, iguchi, crede, AJP, anderson/sweeney. I now that is too much to ask for but what the hell!!


Batting Tejada 2nd would be our biggest nightmare. He hit into more DPs than gidPK...
There is no way we're getting Young and Ichiro the same offseason...I think TX values Young more than ppl think, as well as underestimate what it'll take to get Ichiro (virtually the whole team).

oeo
09-26-2006, 02:55 PM
The problem with dumping Uribe is that what is out there (FA market) isn't an upgrade. Unless a trade is made for an obvious upgrade, I am for keeping Uribe.

Now, the pitching staff...I am probably in the minority who is fine with keeping the starting 5. I want to gut and start over with the bullpen.

I also want to package up McCarthy and get Carl Crawford over here to replace Podsednik.

I agree with everything but this. Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal are all very solid relievers. Build the bullpen around them, but don't gut and start over. And I still think Cotts will be around next year, because realistically, who are you going to fill his void with? I also don't think he will be quite as bad.

ewokpelts
09-26-2006, 02:55 PM
The thing is, I don't care how much Uribe is being paid: it's too much. I know SS is a defensive spot in the lineup, but he's getting older and is nowhere near 2004 performance. Work something out with Crede/Fields and spend that money elsewhere.you mean APRIL 2004.....he sucked from may-september 2004

Flight #24
09-26-2006, 03:00 PM
I would like to see us package Uribe and Garcia or Javier to Baltimore for M. Tejada. Bat him 2nd and move iguchi to 6th. Maybe swing a trade for ichiro and put him in center and move Anderson or sweeney in left. how about having ichiro, tejada, dye, thome, konkero, iguchi, crede, AJP, anderson/sweeney. I now that is too much to ask for but what the hell!!

If you had Tejada & were in the O's situation, would you trade him for .235-hitting, mental lapse Uribe and a pitcher in his last year coming off of an up&down season?

Didn't think so. Let's remember that they don't HAVE to trade him, and that they've supposedly turned down some pretty nice deals including IIRC Oswalt for Miggy and Ervin Santana + Brandon Wood.

If you start the discussion with McCarthy and add in another useful piece PLUS Uribe, then maybe. But all this "Pods+Uribe+Garcia for Tejada/Ichiro/Young" talk is just plain unrealistic.

jenn2080
09-26-2006, 03:00 PM
Crawford is not being made available.


And you know this how?:?:




He knows because he called Ms. Cleo.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Cleo6.jpg

ajismyhero
09-26-2006, 03:01 PM
This is going to be unpopular, but I want Thome gone. God bless his 40 homers and 100 RBIs, but the guy can't hit good lefties. In our division, that spells disaster. Santana, Liriano, Robertson, Rogers, Maroth, Lee, Sabathia, Sowers (next year), Redman, and Perez, plus some of the bullpen guys own him.

If the Sox can move Uribe, Thome, Podsednik, and Crede, and get Ichiro and Michael Young, and a better bullpen, I'm all for it. Of course those players have to be available, but I'm just saying I'd be willing to part with these players to have a stronger top of the lineup and pitching staff.

I don't disagree with the Thome statement, but I'd like to keep Crede. I think with Dye and Konerko, we don't really need another super powerful (and slow) hitter.

Gavin
09-26-2006, 03:04 PM
I'm going to embellish and say that Pierszinski is a liability. I know he's a lefty, but just think how radically different the lineup would be if a guy like I-Rod was in place of AJ. He's a speed threat and can place his hits. Just a thought.

Palehose13
09-26-2006, 03:06 PM
I agree with everything but this. Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal are all very solid relievers. Build the bullpen around them, but don't gut and start over. And I still think Cotts will be around next year, because realistically, who are you going to fill his void with? I also don't think he will be quite as bad.

I didn't write that correctly. By gut, I meant get rid of all but the three you mentioned.

jenn2080
09-26-2006, 03:08 PM
I'm going to embellish and say that Pierszinski is a liability. I know he's a lefty, but just think how radically different the lineup would be if a guy like I-Rod was in place of AJ. He's a speed threat and can place his hits. Just a thought.


No getting rid of AJ and he is on board for 2 or 3 more years.

The Dude
09-26-2006, 03:10 PM
Somehow I think of DumpJerry when I read this title!:redneck

If I had a choice of a new temporary screen name it would be between:

DumpCotts
DumpPods
DumpUribe
DumpRiske

HotelWhiteSox
09-26-2006, 03:11 PM
Seems like to me that the only locks to return are 1B, DH, RF, Closer, and maybe a couple other bullpen guys. On the edge maybe some SP, 3B, CF, C. Tells you all to need to know about the season. Don't really see a safe SP, Uribe has been iffy, who knows with Crede's agent/back/Fields, Anderson if Ozzie hates him, etc etc etc


http://myspace-103.vo.llnwd.net/01138/30/13/1138783103_l.jpg


BYE BYE PODS

LOL I had made this earlier in the year: http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6783/podshh6.jpg

He seems to know he's gone too. On CLTV's sportspage the othernight one of the guests said he tried to do an interview with Pods on his future with the Sox and he said 'there's not much to talk about'

alohafri
09-26-2006, 03:33 PM
Uribe's defense, IMO, makes up for a lot of his offensive deficiencies.

.

The problem with his defense is his "go ahead, I dare you to run to first base on my arm" mentality.

JB98
09-26-2006, 03:33 PM
We need three new pitchers in the bullpen. That's my primary concern. Keep Jenks, MacDougal and Thornton. I'm not as quick to give up on Cotts as some people are, but KW has been left with no choice but to look for a possible upgrade in terms of a second lefty for the bullpen as well.

The problem with this offense is we rely too much on our big four hitters. Uribe-Anderson-Pods is a sinkhole. At least Uribe comes up with a big hit every now and then, but we just can't have three automatic outs in the lineup and expect to win.

Uribe is the most logical guy to move because he makes the most money, and it's arguable that we already have a better alternative (Cintron) in house. People will make the argument that Juan is worth keeping for his glove, but I think they are recalling the 2005 Juan, as opposed to evaluating the 2006 Juan. Uribe's defense this year hasn't been that good. He's been cool-breezing way too many easy plays, and his efficiency in turning the DP has decreased.

Pods just hasn't been the same since the injury in the middle of last season. He's been with us two years, and essentially, he's had one good half. Time to move on there as well.

The Dude
09-26-2006, 03:36 PM
I don't disagree with the Thome statement, but I'd like to keep Crede. I think with Dye and Konerko, we don't really need another super powerful (and slow) hitter.

I disagree. Our 3-4-5 weren't our problem this season. They were our strong point! They all make each other better and easily were the best in baseball. Thome sees a lot of pitches and carried our team during the early months. We need a healthy Thome though and not a 70-80% Thome that we saw during July-August.
The top and bottom of the lineup combined with a horse**** bullpen was our downfall.

Hangar18
09-26-2006, 03:37 PM
This is going to be unpopular, but I want Thome gone. God bless his 40 homers and 100 RBIs, but the guy can't hit good lefties. In our division, that spells disaster. Santana, Liriano, Robertson, Rogers, Maroth, Lee, Sabathia, Sowers (next year), Redman, and Perez, plus some of the bullpen guys own him.

If the Sox can move Uribe, Thome, Podsednik, and Crede, and get Ichiro and Michael Young, and a better bullpen, I'm all for it. Of course those players have to be available, but I'm just saying I'd be willing to part with these players to have a stronger top of the lineup and pitching staff.


Wow. I like where your going with this. I wish Thome could run better .... Since the SOX are only liable for 1/2 his salary, it would be possible to move him (with the SOX paying half of their half). Kenny won't do this yet until he has another reliable lefty to hit

The Dude
09-26-2006, 03:38 PM
This is going to be unpopular, but I want Thome gone. God bless his 40 homers and 100 RBIs, but the guy can't hit good lefties. In our division, that spells disaster. Santana, Liriano, Robertson, Rogers, Maroth, Lee, Sabathia, Sowers (next year), Redman, and Perez, plus some of the bullpen guys own him.

If the Sox can move Uribe, Thome:o:, Podsednik, and Crede:o:, and get Ichiro and Michael Young, and a better bullpen, I'm all for it. Of course those players have to be available, but I'm just saying I'd be willing to part with these players to have a stronger top of the lineup and pitching staff.

These ideas are unpopular right here!:o:

RealMenWearBlack
09-26-2006, 03:41 PM
I'm really hoping that the Sox go after Frank Catalanotto or David Dellucci in free agency. A trade for Michael Young would be nice, but I'm not counting on it. I hope they use Cintron a lot more next year.

Myrtle72
09-26-2006, 03:43 PM
I'm going to embellish and say that Pierszinski is a liability. I know he's a lefty, but just think how radically different the lineup would be if a guy like I-Rod was in place of AJ. He's a speed threat and can place his hits. Just a thought.

AJ is actually a good hitter (most of the time a .300 hitter), which is in many cases rare when it comes to catchers. He's not fast, but again, I-Rod is the minority. And I would absolutely hate to see someone like I-Rod on the White Sox. AJ has a personality that Sox fans love. It seems that ever since he came to Chicago the same personality that got him in trouble before became his best attribute.

Sure, I-Rod has speed, that's nice, but AJ as he is is much more valuable as a whole to us. We can find the speed somewhere else.

chisoxmike
09-26-2006, 03:45 PM
Here's a start...

:pods::cotts::vazquez:
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_228594.jpg

Myrtle72
09-26-2006, 03:47 PM
Here's a start...

:pods::cotts::vazquez:
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_228594.jpg

I'd keep Cotts - I think this year was a fluke. And if not, well, we can just trade him next year.

soxinem1
09-26-2006, 03:49 PM
You know, it is easy to jump on your players, but some of you better face a hard reality:

We are not going to have error-less, 1.000 hitting, throw 'em out on every single chance players at every position. But some of these posts are just purely ridiculous. By the time everyone who slumped or had a bad stretched is shown the door, who is left?

While I am all for replacing Pods and Uribe (to name a few), what reasonable alternatives are out there? Pods didn't make many great throws last year, yet we voted him to the All-Star game. Uribe didn't even get to .250 last year until late in the season, yet now he is a scrub who needs to be dumped? Let's get real. Besides giving up a ton of players to get someone like Tejada, who does not have Uribe's range, what benefit is it to add another base-clogger to the line up? I'd rather have Jack Wilson, who PIT might be dumb enough to trade off, but would fit well in our line-up.

Don't you think the few teams that hold a possible 'on-paper' upgrade will hold KW for ransom? The Carl Crawford fantasy is just that, until he reaches free agency, TB would hold him unless they got two bonified SP's in return, and maybe another BP arm too. I'd settle for Coco Crisp, even though he does not have Pods SB ability, he can run a little and definitely field better.

Every team has deficiencies, and to be honest, the 2006 White Sox were under-achievers, not some team of washed-up scrubs riding a final hour of glory.

While upgrades are desired, don't be too suprised if Pods, Uribe, and most of the starting nine come back, because honestly, the reasonable options are limited.

Myrtle72
09-26-2006, 03:52 PM
Every team has deficiencies, and to be honest, the 2006 White Sox were under-achievers, not some team of washed-up scrubs riding a final hour of glory.

While upgrades are desired, don't be too suprised if Pods, Uribe, and most of the starting nine come back, because honestly, the reasonable options are limited.

Agreed. Trades are not going to make this team better. On paper, our team is one of the best, if not the best in my opinion, in the MLB. What we need is a team that can live up to those records they have set.

Palehose13
09-26-2006, 03:52 PM
I still like my Crawford fantasy very much.

Hangar18
09-26-2006, 03:52 PM
This is interesting. The Ups guy just walked in here, and commented on how disgusted he was about the season. I asked him what he thought about trying to move Thome. He said he was all for it, because he's too slow. 2 of my co-workers immediately chimed in that they wouldnt be upset if Kenny could find a good deal for him. One decision was based on the money hes making, the other on his advancing age. I wonder if Kenny will listen to offers ............. and what lefty bat is out there? this idea isnt as off the wall as it sounds

Hangar18
09-26-2006, 03:56 PM
While upgrades are desired, don't be too suprised if Pods, Uribe.............. because honestly, the reasonable options are limited.

You know what, if this happened, I'm sure it would be because both are still very relatively cheap. Pods is lefthanded also. Podsednik will not win in arbitration

stl_sox_fan
09-26-2006, 03:58 PM
I'd like to see Mack gone. Yes he was a decent hitter, but you have to take the gun out of Ozzie's hand. If Rob is not here next season, he can't be played out of position. Rowand started out the same way sharing CF. Time for BA to get the chance to show his stuff in his sophomore season.

Myrtle72
09-26-2006, 04:00 PM
This article:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060925soxbits,1,1573178.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

about Alomar wanting to return makes me nervous. I don't want him back. Sorry, Alomar.

INSox56
09-26-2006, 04:23 PM
While upgrades are desired, don't be too suprised if Pods, Uribe, and most of the starting nine come back, because honestly, the reasonable options are limited.

Think about what you're saying there and think about who our GM is. I honestly find it VERY hard to believe that Kenny would think that way. Life is full of surprises, but I'd put my money on pods and/or uribe being gone in a heartbeat. As someone mentioned before...how can you keep Uribe on the roster when he is DEAD LAST in all of baseball in OBP of normal position players?

I think a few people are too quick to give up on Javy. I'd almost be not terribly happy if he was the one to go. His ERA in Aug and Sep 3.41 and 2.86 respectively. I think he's turned a/the corner here and I'd be excited to see if he could finally hold it together next year. I frankly just detest seeing opposing players (even the slow ones) just pretty much prance their little asses to second and third off of Freddy without so much as a thought from AJ to throw them out.

southside rocks
09-26-2006, 04:24 PM
I'd like to see Mack gone. Yes he was a decent hitter, but you have to take the gun out of Ozzie's hand. If Rob is not here next season, he can't be played out of position. Rowand started out the same way sharing CF. Time for BA to get the chance to show his stuff in his sophomore season.

So you get rid of Mack -- who's done nothing but be a very good bench player, by the way -- and Ozzie starts Ozuna in CF.

Um, no.

It makes more sense to me to get a 4th outfielder who actually CAN play CF. After all, even the Amazing Anderson (teal) has to rest every so often, right?

As for showing his stuff, I'd like to see it after he's worked on it in winter ball. His ability to hit with runners on is non-existant right now. I'm sure he can improve on that.

I'm hoping that one of the kids from Charlotte is ready next year for the 4th outfield spot.

whitesoxwilkes
09-26-2006, 04:27 PM
This is interesting. The Ups guy just walked in here, and commented on how disgusted he was about the season. I asked him what he thought about trying to move Thome. He said he was all for it, because he's too slow. 2 of my co-workers immediately chimed in that they wouldnt be upset if Kenny could find a good deal for him. One decision was based on the money hes making, the other on his advancing age. I wonder if Kenny will listen to offers ............. and what lefty bat is out there? this idea isnt as off the wall as it sounds

You just answered your own question. What lefty bat is out there with that kind of production, aside from Manny Ramirez?

I'm chalking this one in the same column as the "Jermaine Dye is a downgrade from Maggs" and "Pods needs glasses" theories.

southside rocks
09-26-2006, 04:29 PM
While upgrades are desired, don't be too suprised if Pods, Uribe, and most of the starting nine come back, because honestly, the reasonable options are limited.

I see your point, but I also think that KW is way more on top of what the options are, than a bunch of fans, even fans who pay attention.

Example: who had even heard of Matt Thornton, much less considered him a reasonable option for the Sox bullpen, this time last year? Yet he's been an overall excellent acquisition for the team, and is one of Coop's success stories.

Another example: Bobby Jenks. Need I say more. :cool:

Point being that Kenny Williams pays obsessively close attention to the rosters of all 30 MLB teams, and the rosters of their farm teams too. I just don't believe that in all those players, there aren't upgrades from Pods and Uribe to be had, should the Sox decide to make those moves.

MarySwiss
09-26-2006, 04:30 PM
So you get rid of Mack -- who's done nothing but be a very good bench player, by the way -- and Ozzie starts Ozuna in CF.

Um, no.

It makes more sense to me to get a 4th outfielder who actually CAN play CF. After all, even the Amazing Anderson (teal) has to rest every so often, right?

As for showing his stuff, I'd like to see it after he's worked on it in winter ball. His ability to hit with runners on is non-existant right now. I'm sure he can improve on that.

I'm hoping that one of the kids from Charlotte is ready next year for the 4th outfield spot.

Exactly! Dumping Mack does not ensure more playing time for BA.

tstrike2000
09-26-2006, 04:57 PM
After the imminent Michael Young trade, I would like see him bat 2nd with Iguchi hitting lower. He can also use all sides of the field and the bottom of the order will get a boost from having Iguchi there.

If we don't end up getting a top tier SS in the offseason, what about moving Cintron to starting SS?

monkeypants
09-26-2006, 05:03 PM
http://myspace-103.vo.llnwd.net/01138/30/13/1138783103_l.jpg


BYE BYE PODS
:rolling:

That is priceless!

Beer Can Chicken
09-26-2006, 05:07 PM
And you know this how?:?:

Crawford just signed a contract through 2010. 6 years at 31 million. Club options in 2009 and 2010. Why would one of the lowest payroll teams in baseball trade a superstar player making that salary??
IMO, It doesnt make sense to me.

Its like the whole Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera thing. They have them so cheap and nobody will meet their demands for number of caliber players.

Hangar18
09-26-2006, 05:10 PM
You just answered your own question. What lefty bat is out there with that kind of production, aside from Manny Ramirez?

I'm chalking this one in the same column as the "Jermaine Dye is a downgrade from Maggs" and "Pods needs glasses" theories.


I'll bet Kenny can come up with an option ............
by the way, a hurt Jermaine Dye replacing a hurt Maggs wasnt exactly a steal. Jermaine signed for a very minimal salary, and if you remember, was terrible the first couple of months of 05. Lets see how the Pods thing plays out before we bash theories ..........

daveeym
09-26-2006, 05:12 PM
Dude just imagine if we could trade for the AL Allstar starting lineup. We would rock then.

Brian26
09-26-2006, 05:14 PM
Will people stop with all of the Crawford talk unless the post is in deep pink. Crawford is not being made available.

And you know this how?:?:

Crawford just signed a contract through 2010. 6 years at 31 million. Club options in 2009 and 2010. Why would one of the lowest payroll teams in baseball trade a superstar player making that salary??
IMO, It doesnt make sense to me.

Its like the whole Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera thing. They have them so cheap and nobody will meet their demands for number of caliber players.

Mickster and BCC are correct. Also, it's been widely publicized. I've heard two different interviews on the radio in the past month that mentioned the Sox were trying like hell to get Crawford before the trade deadline, and TB wouldn't budge. The guy's a budding superstar signed to an affordable contract. At some point, you have to realize that it makes no business sense for a financial-strained franchise to trade him.

soxinem1
09-26-2006, 05:21 PM
I see your point, but I also think that KW is way more on top of what the options are, than a bunch of fans, even fans who pay attention.

Example: who had even heard of Matt Thornton, much less considered him a reasonable option for the Sox bullpen, this time last year? Yet he's been an overall excellent acquisition for the team, and is one of Coop's success stories.

Another example: Bobby Jenks. Need I say more. :cool:

Point being that Kenny Williams pays obsessively close attention to the rosters of all 30 MLB teams, and the rosters of their farm teams too. I just don't believe that in all those players, there aren't upgrades from Pods and

Uribe to be had, should the Sox decide to make those moves.

The players you mentioned were supporting cast members (both came here and pitched as MRP).

KW likes older, even injured veteran players who, after their current team went through the task of rehabbing them, plucking them away and getting a solid year or two before they get cast off. He also likes the throw-in types who got hurt or didn't reach their potential (Jenks, Cotts, Thornton), and in the case of the veterans, get money thrown in (ala Vasquez, Contreras, Thome).

Don't forget, Uribe, Pods, AJ, Hermanson, Dye, Contreras, Jenks, and Thornton were all cast-offs. That seems to be his favorite type to go after.

A guy like Covelli (Coco) Crisp is a perfect KW-type target. I can see him playing with the White Sox. I can also see Jack Wilson from PIT in a White Sox uniform. Those are achieveable and an upgrade, too.

Remember, I didn't say no changes were coming. But unless the players he has his eyes on (and I'm sure there are a few out there we have not even brought up) are somewhere in this mold, I don't think it's happening.

nysox35
09-26-2006, 05:26 PM
I'd like to see Mack gone. Yes he was a decent hitter, but you have to take the gun out of Ozzie's hand. If Rob is not here next season, he can't be played out of position. Rowand started out the same way sharing CF. Time for BA to get the chance to show his stuff in his sophomore season.

I agree that I don't want Rob in CF anymore, but I'd like to keep him as a backup infielder/corner outfielder.

I must say though, your comment about taking the gun out of Ozzie's hand gave me a mental image of Ozzie with an actual gun and it cracked me up.
:D:

Frontman
09-26-2006, 05:27 PM
http://myspace-103.vo.llnwd.net/01138/30/13/1138783103_l.jpg


BYE BYE PODS


Pods didn't smile that much when they won the Series.

nysox35
09-26-2006, 05:29 PM
Pods didn't smile that much when they won the Series.

Man, I feel for the guy. He gets hated on so much around here.

Actually, I remember him holding his arms up and running in from LF after the final WS Game 4 out. Just one of many cool memories. I may have to fire up the DVD's again now that we're officially gone.

mwc44
09-26-2006, 05:29 PM
http://myspace-103.vo.llnwd.net/01138/30/13/1138783103_l.jpg




http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6783/podshh6.jpg



:kneeslap: :rolling: :thumbsup:
P(ictures)OTW

southside rocks
09-26-2006, 05:31 PM
The players you mentioned were supporting cast members (both came here and pitched as MRP).

KW likes older, even injured veteran players who, after their current team went through the task of rehabbing them, plucking them away and getting a solid year or two before they get cast off. He also likes the throw-in types who got hurt or didn't reach their potential (Jenks, Cotts, Thornton), and in the case of the veterans, get money thrown in (ala Vasquez, Contreras, Thome).

Don't forget, Uribe, Pods, AJ, Hermanson, Dye, Contreras, Jenks, and Thornton were all cast-offs. That seems to be his favorite type to go after.

A guy like Covelli (Coco) Crisp is a perfect KW-type target. I can see him playing with the White Sox. I can also see Jack Wilson from PIT in a White Sox uniform. Those are achieveable and an upgrade, too.

Remember, I didn't say no changes were coming. But unless the players he has his eyes on (and I'm sure there are a few out there we have not even brought up) are somewhere in this mold, I don't think it's happening.

Interesting points. I do see that KW looks for value in 'discards', and when it works out, he looks like a genius. When it doesn't work out (Jeff Nelson), well, it wasn't a big expense ...

So you think he will look for undervalued players, otherwise go with homegrown talent from the farm?

Gosh, and I was just about to order my Manny Ramirez White Sox jersey! :tongue:

soxinem1
09-26-2006, 05:35 PM
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6783/podshh6.jpg


This is hilarious!!!!!!! Well done.

stl_sox_fan
09-26-2006, 05:45 PM
I agree that I don't want Rob in CF anymore, but I'd like to keep him as a backup infielder/corner outfielder.

I must say though, your comment about taking the gun out of Ozzie's hand gave me a mental image of Ozzie with an actual gun and it cracked me up.
:D:

Allright I may have been hasty in calling for Mack's dismissal. But whatever it takes to keep him out of the outfield. Maybe one of those invisible fences for dogs can be placed on the infield perimeter. Mack where's the collar but Ozzie gets the shock. So Ozzie feels the pain that Sox fans feel when Mack plays CF.

soxinem1
09-26-2006, 05:45 PM
Interesting points. I do see that KW looks for value in 'discards', and when it works out, he looks like a genius. When it doesn't work out (Jeff Nelson), well, it wasn't a big expense ...

So you think he will look for undervalued players, otherwise go with homegrown talent from the farm?

Gosh, and I was just about to order my Manny Ramirez White Sox jersey! :tongue:

Honestly, how many rookies from within (or even via trade) have made KW teams? Crede, Rowand, Buerhle, Jenks, Gary Glover, Rocky Biddle, Miguel Olivo, Dan Wright, Neal Cotts, Willie Harris, and a few others. And VERY FEW position players. In six seasons as a GM, that is not very stellar.

Since 2001, even the Yankees have produced more rookies as regulars than the White Sox. Brandon McCarthy would have made the Mets, Twins, Tigers, Yankees, Phillies, Dodgers, Astros, Padres, and Cardinals (among the contenders and ALL of the other teams) as a starter this year, but KW found a veteran he trusted more, and worked it out.

He does not trust rookies. Plain and simple. Once they pay their dues, sure, but KW's teams are veterans and retreads.

So do you think Josh Fields will be in LF next year as a converted OF if he can get someone like Crisp? No way, Fields may not even make the team, and may wind up traded.

Which has us back again at the original equation. KW likes veterans and low-risk type moves. Anderson got CF because KW was tapped out with the cash. I'm suprised he didn't try to get Lofton back this year.

Remember when everyone had Rowand and Ben Davis penciled in as starters? What did KW do, he got Lofton and AJ. He even sacrificed defense and got Everett in CF (can you believe he played CF for us) the first time he picked him up.

The evidence supports this. I am not totally knocking the guy, he has made a ton of brilliant and creative trades, unlike his predecessor, but I don't see many rookies, if any, making a KW-run team, because it is not in his track record. Iguchi and Rowand were the closest to fit this mold, and Tad was more of a free-agent signing, and Rowand was pushed aside several times.

So look at it this way, we will know if the Sox are ever in a rebuilding mode under Williams, because nothing he has done indicates he likes handing rookies any starting jobs.

Frontman
09-26-2006, 05:48 PM
Man, I feel for the guy. He gets hated on so much around here.

Actually, I remember him holding his arms up and running in from LF after the final WS Game 4 out. Just one of many cool memories. I may have to fire up the DVD's again now that we're officially gone.

I know, I just was having some fun. Actually, his excitement for them winning as well as Crede's is something I will always remember. To me, that moment of him running in with the rest of the outfield and grabbing Rowand around the shoulder was awesome. (I actually had it as Crede. It was Rowand. Nah, I didn't just watch "Sox Pride" again. )

That and Crede's "Ohmigod! He caught it! Bobby, he caught it!!!" run back from foul territory after Juan reached in for the second out iin the 9th is something my wife and I still laugh about Crede. He might be one of the best 3rd basemen playing, but just at that moment, he looked like a 12 year old kid on Christmas.

Front

nysox35
09-26-2006, 05:52 PM
I know, I just was having some fun. Actually, his excitement for them winning as well as Crede's is something I will always remember. To me, that moment of him running in with the rest of the outfield and grabbing Crede around the shoulder was awesome.

That and Crede's "Ohmigod! He caught it! Bobby, he caught it!!!" run back from foul territory after Juan reached in for the second out iin the 9th is something my wife and I still laugh about Crede. He might be one of the best 3rd basemen playing, but just at that moment, he looked like a 12 year old kid on Christmas.

Front

haha, thanks for sharing that. I had forgotten about that one. I have the Sox 2005 WS DVD and Sox Pride DVD, but it's probably time I spring for the collectors edition set now that we're out of it.

Mohoney
09-26-2006, 06:46 PM
as well as underestimate what it'll take to get Ichiro (virtually the whole team).

I would think that it would have to involve Crede being a centerpiece, PLUS finding a 3rd team to take Beltre.

It could theoretically happen, IF Seattle chips in cash to offset Beltre's contract for that 3rd team AND we come to a complete impasse in extending Crede.

SABRSox
09-26-2006, 08:21 PM
If the Sox can move Uribe, Thome, Podsednik, and Crede, and get Ichiro and Michael Young, and a better bullpen, I'm all for it. Of course those players have to be available, but I'm just saying I'd be willing to part with these players to have a stronger top of the lineup and pitching staff.

Ichiro and Michael Young. LOL!

While we're at it, let's trade Konerko for Pujols, BA for Carlos Beltran, travel back in time, kidnap George Brett in his prime and bring him back to the future to play for us, and what else, oh we can regenerate Cy Young's corpse and have him pitch out of the bullpen.

Oh, and bring back Rowand, Thomas, Graffanino, Robin Ventura...

... and trade for Carl Crawford.

Can we please be realistic about this? Uribe stays unless the Young trade happens, and that's probably not likely. (Come on Texas, you know you want the new and improved Freddy Garcia.) Pods can stay as a 4th OF (Mack, you've got to go lest Ozzie be tempted to play you in CF again.) And we need to sign somebody for the bullpen.

BTW, I'm willing to sign Politte to a minor league deal. Maybe he'll be 2005 Cliff after coming back from surgery.

russ99
09-26-2006, 08:24 PM
Man, I feel for the guy. He gets hated on so much around here.

Actually, I remember him holding his arms up and running in from LF after the final WS Game 4 out. Just one of many cool memories. I may have to fire up the DVD's again now that we're officially gone.

No kidding. I can't wait to hear these same Pods bashers whine when he hits .285 with 45-50 SB next season for (hopefully not) another team and we're stuck with a underperforming Coco Crisp. These are the same people who were ready to run Konerko out of town too. :angry:

I hope Kenny sits down with him and has a good talk before deciding on his future.

southside rocks
09-26-2006, 08:52 PM
haha, thanks for sharing that. I had forgotten about that one. I have the Sox 2005 WS DVD and Sox Pride DVD, but it's probably time I spring for the collectors edition set now that we're out of it.

I just ordered the boxed DVD set the other day. I looked for it at the gift shop last Thursday when I went to the game, but they didn't have any in stock so I ordered it from the website.

I'm looking forward to watching all the games and reveling in memories. Right now, any escape from reality is a good thing. :tongue:

asboog
09-26-2006, 10:21 PM
What about going after Julio Lugo in the off season to replace Uribe. I think he would be be a good option as a lead off hitter and he has the speed for it. Just a thought. take it for what you will

Bucky F. Dent
09-26-2006, 10:47 PM
Pods, Mackowiak, Cotts, are "easy" kills.

The difficult question in terms of completing the list is the following: who are our real starting pitchers? The guys who crushed the world last year, or the guys who limped through the second half of this season?

Depending on your answer, the list could get appreciably longer.

Lip Man 1
09-26-2006, 10:49 PM
Uribe, Posednik, Logan, Cotts head the top of my list.

Lip

ChiSoxGirl
09-26-2006, 11:03 PM
Man, I feel for the guy. He gets hated on so much around here.

Actually, I remember him holding his arms up and running in from LF after the final WS Game 4 out. Just one of many cool memories. I may have to fire up the DVD's again now that we're officially gone.

You're one of few on this board who isn't running Podsednik out of town! I think he's hated on more than any other player on this team right now. And while the guy has had a down year, he's human like the rest of us. Lest we forget all he did for the team in 2005, specifically in the first half and in all rounds of the playoffs??

I put in my tape of Game 2 of the World Series on Sunday night and when he hit that walk-off homerun, I got goosebumps and teared up just like I did the night he deposited that 2-1 pitch from Lidge over the right-center field wall. When he threw his arms up at the end of Game 4 of the World Series, the look of joy on his face is one I'll never forget.

I looked back at my scrapbook tonight and while it was painful, it brought back so many awesome memories. Given the situation we're in now, I'm even happier that I took the time to put together that book- all those pictures and newspaper articles from September 29-October 28 are priceless.

Chips
09-26-2006, 11:05 PM
I could say Cotts, but I dunno...this year seems like a freak occurrance, same with burls.

I'd say last year was the freak occurance.

Send Cotts packing.

Lip Man 1
09-26-2006, 11:15 PM
Mack is a very valuable player off the bench especially if he is playing where he is supposed to be playing as a back up corner outfielder and or 3rd baseman.

It is possible though that Kenny may deal him since other teams know his value and the Sox could in theory get some bullpen help for him.

Lip

soxchick20
09-26-2006, 11:16 PM
I looked back at my scrapbook tonight and while it was painful, it brought back so many awesome memories. Given the situation we're in now, I'm even happier that I took the time to put together that book- all those pictures and newspaper articles from September 29-October 28 are priceless.

i did the exact same thing, my book is over 100 pages long filled with pictures, articles, everything. i look at it every so often and all i could do is smile.

and as far as breaking out the dvds, that has already begun for me. i just watched game 2 and the parade/rally from my tivo tonight. i have a long few months ahead of me.

thomas35forever
09-26-2006, 11:19 PM
Pods, Uribe, Cotts, and Riske all need to go. Keep Mackowiak as a left-side infielder/corner outfielder.

soxwon
09-26-2006, 11:20 PM
The problem with dumping Uribe is that what is out there (FA market) isn't an upgrade. Unless a trade is made for an obvious upgrade, I am for keeping Uribe.

Now, the pitching staff...I am probably in the minority who is fine with keeping the starting 5. I want to gut and start over with the bullpen.

I also want to package up McCarthy and get Carl Crawford over here to replace Podsednik.

i thought uribe for michael young was a done deal.
im expecting that to happen.
and crede for figgins is a great trade too.
dump buehrle sign zito

getonbckthr
09-26-2006, 11:22 PM
Cotts gone in favor of Reynoso. However in my eyes our biggest weakness is LF and a leadoff hitter. Who is the most coveted free agent out there this off season, you got it Alfonso Soriano. We fans showed up so they can't use the excuse of not having the money. Also I want Iguchi gone. I think we all over rate him as a player because of the circus-like play he made in April. Why can't we take Josh Fields, send him to winter-ball, and convert him to a 2nd basemen. As far as the SS problem I would love to see Eckstein in my lineup. Scrappy ball player who gets the job done. My lineup:
Soriano-LF, Eckstein-SS, Dye-RF, Thome-DH, Konerko-1B, Crede-3B, AJ-C, BA/Sweeney (split time) CF, and Fields-2B. Bench- BA/Sweeney, Catcher, Cintron, Pablo, Mack or Gload.
As far as pitching changes must be made. As much as I am not impressed by him Mccarthy is in the rotation next season. Garland is a guarentee as well. That leaves 4 guys for 3 spots. What it comes down to is who is the most valuable in a trade? I wonder if Freddy to St Louis can get us say Wainwright and Eckstein? If possible we can put Wainwright in the pen until 08 then he replaces Contreras. My pitching staff:
Burls, Contreras, Garland, Vasquez, Mccarthy. Pen- Jenks, Thornton, Macdougal, Reynoso, Tracey, Wainwright.

ChiSoxGirl
09-26-2006, 11:24 PM
i did the exact same thing, my book is over 100 pages long filled with pictures, articles, everything. i look at it every so often and all i could do is smile.

My scrapbook has got to have somewhere around 100 pages in it, too, and I think I spent $50-75 on materials. To me, this is both time and money well-spent. I put my Christmas shopping and cards on hold last December because all I could do was work on my scrapbook! :tongue: :redface:

I not only have articles & pictures from the newspapers, but I also included pictures I took at all the playoff games I attended, pictures from the alohafri tailgate before Game 1 of the World Series, and pictures I took when out in Bridgeport with WSI friends watching the games.

goon
09-26-2006, 11:34 PM
Soriano-LF, Eckstein-SS, Dye-RF, Thome-DH, Konerko-1B, Crede-3B, AJ-C, BA/Sweeney (split time) CF, and Fields-2B. Bench- BA/Sweeney, Catcher, Cintron, Pablo, Mack or Gload.


if the sox get eckstein i will barf.

we need a left fielder and a leadoff man. who will kenny get? i have no idea, however, i would not be surprised if the sox pick up a big name like michael young or carl crawford.

getonbckthr
09-26-2006, 11:39 PM
if the sox get eckstein i will barf.

we need a left fielder and a leadoff man. who will kenny get? i have no idea, however, i would not be surprised if the sox pick up a big name like michael young or carl crawford.
Yes a guy who can bunt, steal a base, get base hits and has a solid glove. Yes pass me the barf bag now. I suppose the idea of Soriano leading off with a single and having Ekstein come up and either A) Alfonso steals second and gets bunted to third for JD or Eckstein singles to right and you have 1st and third with no out before the pitcher can bat an eye-lash is a vomit-worthy idea.

Madscout
09-26-2006, 11:53 PM
Cotts- because he couldn't buy an out when we needed it this year
Logan- because he has a **** motion and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn
Pods- because it doesn't seem that he cares anymore
Vasquez- because he is not our type of pitcher. doesn't get strike one, and pitches around until he has to lob one up for someone

maybes
Mc Carthy- because we could get one hell of a lot for him, but only if we can find a starter that would be better
Dye- becuase he has had a career year,which he will not repeat, and somebody would pay a lot for him, like say a good lead off man or great bullpen pitching. I would like to see the less long ball and more small ball which won us a championship. The only problem with this is who, we don't want him on a rival team (as in Frank's case) and the national league will not shell out the cash or the players for him.

Chips
09-27-2006, 12:06 AM
Vasquez- because he is not our type of pitcher. doesn't get strike one, and pitches around until he has to lob one up for someone

I would like to see the less long ball and more small ball which won us a championship.

First off, it's Vazquez. See it far too much.

And just how many of our pitchers got strike one this year? Not many, especially the bullpen.

We hit a ****load of jacks in 2005, the small ball wasn't the problem this year, it was the piss poor pitching.

Myrtle72
09-27-2006, 12:10 AM
Cotts- because he couldn't buy an out when we needed it this year
Logan- because he has a **** motion and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn
Pods- because it doesn't seem that he cares anymore
Vasquez- because he is not our type of pitcher. doesn't get strike one, and pitches around until he has to lob one up for someone

maybes
Mc Carthy- because we could get one hell of a lot for him, but only if we can find a starter that would be better
Dye- becuase he has had a career year,which he will not repeat, and somebody would pay a lot for him, like say a good lead off man or great bullpen pitching. I would like to see the less long ball and more small ball which won us a championship. The only problem with this is who, we don't want him on a rival team (as in Frank's case) and the national league will not shell out the cash or the players for him.

Logan and Pods - Yeah, okay, I agree with you.
Cotts - I'd be willing to give him until the All-Star break in '07.
Vasquez - he is paid WAY too much to do pretty much nothing special. He needs to go. Fast.
McCarthy - Depends on who we could get.
Dye - No. We need to keep him.

Chips
09-27-2006, 12:16 AM
Vasquez - he is paid WAY too much to do pretty much nothing special. He needs to go. Fast.
.

VAZQUEZ's numbers by the month

April: 2-1, 3.67
May: 4-2, 3.99
June: 2-1, 7.50
July: 1-2, 6.82
August: 2-2, 3.41
September: 0-3, 3.82

Totals: 11-11, 4.77. Those are in line with his career numbers. He is a 5th starter who did a fine job in that role. Plus the Yankees and Diamondbacks are paying his salary.

Beer Can Chicken
09-27-2006, 12:17 AM
You just answered your own question. What lefty bat is out there with that kind of production, aside from Manny Ramirez?

I'm chalking this one in the same column as the "Jermaine Dye is a downgrade from Maggs" and "Pods needs glasses" theories.

Isn't Manny a righty?

Beer Can Chicken
09-27-2006, 12:18 AM
VAZQUEZ's numbers by the month

April: 2-1, 3.67
May: 4-2, 3.99
June: 2-1, 7.50
July: 1-2, 6.82
August: 2-2, 3.41
September: 0-3, 3.82

Totals: 11-11, 4.77. Those are in line with his career numbers. He is a 5th starter who did a fine job in that role. Plus the Yankees and Diamondbacks are paying his salary.

Vazquez was one of our best pitchers down the stretch when it mattered most. I agree, I wouldnt be so willing to ship him out just yet...

Sox35th
09-27-2006, 12:20 AM
Will people stop with all of the Crawford talk unless the post is in deep pink. Crawford is not being made available.

For the right price anyone will and can be made available.........one should note that Crawford is the real deal!! Never think that one can't be availble then you have a GM in the works like KW

Chips
09-27-2006, 12:24 AM
Vazquez was one of our best pitchers down the stretch when it mattered most. I agree, I wouldnt be so willing to ship him out just yet...

And while Vazquez picthed like **** in some games and gave up too many runs, I'm looking to see how many of his runners Cotts and other members of the bullpen allowed to score.

Besides tonight, Vazquez has pitched great down the stretch, same with Garland until last night.

RealMenWearBlack
09-27-2006, 02:43 AM
I'm not so sure about Michael Young because I noticed that he is tied for second in the league in GIDP and has even more than Paulie, but then again I'm not sure if their are comprable shortstops available.

fusillirob1983
09-27-2006, 03:10 AM
I know a lot of people want to get rid of Boone Logan, and I realize he's been pretty terrible, but couldn't he just start the year at Charlotte?

Madscout
09-27-2006, 10:20 AM
First off, it's Vazquez. See it far too much.

And just how many of our pitchers got strike one this year? Not many, especially the bullpen.

We hit a ****load of jacks in 2005, the small ball wasn't the problem this year, it was the piss poor pitching.

I agree, but all of our other starters have shown that they can get strike one in the past. Mark had a bad year, totally uncharecteristic. Freddy is lookin great at the end of the year. Garland was money down the stretch. Contreras didn't have a bad year either

Bullpen was complete **** down the stretch and needs an upgrade, Vazquez could bring part of that.

Also, we did hit a ton of homeruns in 2005, but we weren't winning all of our games 8-2 or something like that. In 2005, we could produce runs as well as the long ball. But, on the other hand, when you are down 4-0 in the second every night, it doesn't help an offense.

Mickster
09-27-2006, 05:46 PM
For the right price anyone will and can be made available.........one should note that Crawford is the real deal!! Never think that one can't be availble then you have a GM in the works like KW

Sure they are, but within reason. What package do you think KW would have to send to the Mets to get, say, David Wright? Or what would he have to send to the Phillies to get Howard? Get my point?

These are extremely cheap players who are "locked up" for many years (in the case of Wright and Howard - years before they become arb. eligible/free agents). Crawford is signed for peanuts with option years through 2012. Hell, he only made $2.6M this year. I can see Crawford being traded toward the end of his contract as his contract signed through 2010 is back loaded.

Brian26
09-27-2006, 06:03 PM
These are extremely cheap players who are "locked up" for many years (in the case of Wright and Howard - years before they become arb. eligible/free agents). Crawford is signed for peanuts with option years through 2012. Hell, he only made $2.6M this year. I can see Crawford being traded toward the end of his contract as his contract signed through 2010 is back loaded.

Exactly. This is much different than KW stealing Garcia away from Seattle or Colon away from the Expos (when those guys were in the final years of their contracts before becoming FA's). I'll be the first one to congratulate KW if he can steal Crawford, but it's highly doubtful that can happen.

soxwon
09-27-2006, 07:57 PM
I know a lot of people want to get rid of Boone Logan, and I realize he's been pretty terrible, but couldn't he just start the year at Charlotte?


boone logan started spring training as a class A pitcher
and won a spot on the team.
And people want to get rid of him- jesus!!!
the kid should have just finnished AA ball
give him a chance, it might take 2 more years
but the kid has good stuff.

brucefan34
09-28-2006, 10:06 AM
As for Cotts, 2005 was his fluke year. He had an ERA under 2 and only gave up 1 dinger. '04 and this year are almost identical as far as stats...5.00+ ERA and gave up double digits in home runs. And how many to the first batter he faced which killed any kind of momentum the Sox may have had before bringing him out of the pen? See ya!

SoxyStu
09-28-2006, 01:17 PM
Also I want Iguchi gone. I think we all over rate him as a player because of the circus-like play he made in April.

He's one of my favs, but I agree with you. He tossed too many weak throws over to 1st this year trying to complete double plays and never "jockeyed" (is that even right?) baserunners on 2nd...However, he could be the missing piece that helps us land something special. We can get more in return for him than adding Uribe to whatever package. In addition, Uribe would be his foil at 2nd...why not play him at 2nd next year while still upgrading at shortstop/leftfield. What we get in return for the Gooch/starting pitcher package would offset his offense.

kitekrazy
09-28-2006, 02:16 PM
Somehow we think what we see on the field is hidden from other GMs. Don't bet on it.