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View Full Version : White Sox concede: Buehrle and Contreras scratched from final starts in 2006


35th&Shields
09-24-2006, 12:46 PM
It was just announced on ESPN 1000 by Bruce Levine that Contreras is out for the year because of his hamstring and Buehrle would be scratched from his final start(s). (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060924&content_id=1679714&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) If that isn't a concession on the season, then I don't know what is. It's officially over.

I kept hope alive as long as I could. Even if we had just picked up the first two from Seattle when the Twins lost we could have had a chance, I thought. But now it's all over. It was fun while it lasted being the reigning World Champions. Time to look towards building for next year.

QCIASOXFAN
09-24-2006, 12:59 PM
How is this conceding? Conteras is hurt and Buehrle has been beyond bad for a while now.

Myrtle72
09-24-2006, 01:01 PM
Yeah, I actually believe that that may be a strategic move to help them, rather than to give up.

Kub_Killer_15
09-24-2006, 01:03 PM
Sounds like a good idea to me. Buehrle seems really tired and needs some rest. Whats wrong with that? :dunno:

Lip Man 1
09-24-2006, 01:04 PM
And remember it's Bruce Levine right? You remember him, the guy who's rarely right.

Lip

Sox-o-matic
09-24-2006, 01:10 PM
Im pretty skeptical about both McCarthy and Haeger's chances as major league starters, but at this particular point in time I think McCarthy and Haeger are both better options than Buehrle.

Get well Jose.

Myrtle72
09-24-2006, 01:19 PM
Im pretty skeptical about both McCarthy and Haeger's chances as major league starters, but at this particular point in time I think McCarthy and Haeger are both better options than Buehrle.

Get well Jose.

Haegar is starting? I assumed they would just skip one of the spots or something.

If he is in fact starting one of our last games, well, I agree, I'm very skeptical about that. He looked so awesome the other day, but he's so new. Then again, Jose can't play and Buehrle seems like be really needs a break or something... so, if he looks like he did the other day then he's a great choice. Let's just hope he's consistant.

caulfield12
09-24-2006, 01:24 PM
It was just announced on ESPN 1000 by Bruce Levine that Contreras is out for the year because of his hamstring and Buehrle would be scratched from his final start(s). If that isn't a concession on the season, then I don't know what is. It's officially over.

I kept hope alive as long as I could. Even if we had just picked up the first two from Seattle when the Twins lost we could have had a chance, I thought. But now it's all over. It was fun while it lasted being the reigning World Champions. Time to look towards building for next year.

These last three games are setting up like the last three in Cleveland last year (with the bench and rookies going)...except we're in an obviously less "fun" position this year.

OTOH, last year this Sunday is the one year anniversary of the Grady Sizemore dropped ball in the sun Day in KC that opened up the division for the White Sox that final week and put the Indians in a final tailspin.

southside rocks
09-24-2006, 01:29 PM
If MB has been pulled from the rotation, I wonder if that means that the Sox have found out that he's hurt.

I wonder that because it's so strange to see a pitcher of his abilities and record be so bad for so long unless there's an injury involved.

35th&Shields
09-24-2006, 01:44 PM
How is this conceding? Conteras is hurt and Buehrle has been beyond bad for a while now.

When you couple dropping the starts for the pitchers that are the #1 and #2 pitchers in your rotation with comments from Ozzie before the game that he's sorry that this was a lost season and that it's too bad the White Sox couldn't make the playoffs for the fans, I take that as a concession.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-24-2006, 01:52 PM
I think by pulling Buehrle, if it is true, it is not to damage his trade value any more than it already has been hurt by his midseason swoon. My opinion is he's being traded this offseason. And I would not disagree with that move one bit.

thomas35forever
09-24-2006, 01:54 PM
Sounds like a good idea to me. Buehrle seems really tired and needs some rest. Whats wrong with that? :dunno:
Exactly. He's barely done anything since the second half. My dad disagreed with his selection to the all-star team after his piss-poor performance against the Cubs.

jenn2080
09-24-2006, 02:23 PM
It was just announced on ESPN 1000 by Bruce Levine that Contreras is out for the year because of his hamstring and Buehrle would be scratched from his final start(s). If that isn't a concession on the season, then I don't know what is. It's officially over.

I kept hope alive as long as I could. Even if we had just picked up the first two from Seattle when the Twins lost we could have had a chance, I thought. But now it's all over. It was fun while it lasted being the reigning World Champions. Time to look towards building for next year.


I do not really see how taking Mark out is a bad thing and giving up.

ondafarm
09-24-2006, 03:18 PM
Im pretty skeptical about both McCarthy and Haeger's chances as major league starters, but at this particular point in time I think McCarthy and Haeger are both better options than Buehrle.

Get well Jose.

If you mean starting this season , then I don't assume they will be lights out.

If you mean the two having a future as starting pitchers, then you are dissing 40% of the White Sox starting rotation in 2008 and possibly 2007.

A. Cavatica
09-24-2006, 03:27 PM
But there's no time to get McCarthy and Haeger stretched out!

Sox-o-matic
09-24-2006, 05:26 PM
If you mean starting this season , then I don't assume they will be lights out.

If you mean the two having a future as starting pitchers, then you are dissing 40% of the White Sox starting rotation in 2008 and possibly 2007.

God I hope you're wrong. If Brandon and Heager make up 40% of our starting rotation next year or beyond, I'd make a guess that there's about an 80% chance that 40% of our rotation sucks 60% of the time.

Patrick134
09-24-2006, 05:29 PM
God I hope you're wrong. If Brandon and Heager make up 40% of our starting rotation next year or beyond, I'd make a guess that there's about an 80% chance that 40% of our rotation sucks 60% of the time.


Amen. Haeger has 3 great innings against seattle and he's anointed a savior already. Knuckleballers historically go around .500 anyway, because on the nights it's not knuckling, it's flying far.

ws05champs
09-24-2006, 05:33 PM
It was just announced on ESPN 1000 by Bruce Levine that Contreras is out for the year because of his hamstring and Buehrle would be scratched from his final start(s).

Good move. In hindsight maybe it should have been made earlier. Both those guys are either hurt or really tired. They are not pitching the way they should be and their latest starts have been mostly disasters. Can't see how Brandon and Heager could do much worse.

sox1970
09-24-2006, 05:33 PM
God I hope you're wrong. If Brandon and Heager make up 40% of our starting rotation next year or beyond, I'd make a guess that there's about an 80% chance that 40% of our rotation sucks 60% of the time.

I don't think the Sox have Haeger in their plans as a starter. He'll be used as a swing man--starting in a pinch, and pitching long relief to save the rest of the bullpen. He could be a valuable part of a good pitching staff. If I'm Kenny, I'm trying to move Contreras this offseason. I think a winter off for Buehrle and Garcia will do them good. Garland started off slow this year, but definitely backed up last year with a nice overall season. Vazquez is an enigma, to say the least. He has too much talent to give up on. I think you go out an improve the bullpen, and have this as your rotation next year: Garland, Buehrle, Garcia, Vazquez, McCarthy.

Lip Man 1
09-24-2006, 05:34 PM
At Whitesox.com Ozzie is quoted as saying that again both Herm and Mark have told him that Buehrle is fine physically.

Lip

Bulls_Fan
09-24-2006, 05:42 PM
I"m not sure on trading MB, however i'm sure this will be a topic discussed extensively over the winter. Back on subject, it can't hurt to give Haeger a start at the end. I will not be one of those people that think he should be given a spot in the rotation. I think he is a perfect swing-type pitcher. Spot starter, long relief type guy (taking McCarthy's spot?).

We need that type of thing in the bull pen. Especially a nice change-up for the hitter. One minute you are facing a hard thrower and the next a guy is "lobbing" pitches at you.

Frater Perdurabo
09-24-2006, 05:48 PM
IMHO - and another poster wrote this yesterday (but I agree with them) - Haeger would be best in a relief role. If he sucks on a given day, yank him like any other reliever. But if he keeps getting outs, leave him in as long as he remains effective. Either way, he probably would be able to pitch again the next day.

Also, have a knuckleballer like Haeger pitch a chunk of innings would make fireballers like MacDougal, Thornton and Jenks that much more effective at the end of a game, as hitters would have to adjust from 60 MPH dancing floaters to 97 MPH screamers.

I hope Mark and Jose are all right and that this move is just precautionary.

Sox-o-matic
09-24-2006, 05:58 PM
I don't think the Sox have Haeger in their plans as a starter. He'll be used as a swing man--starting in a pinch, and pitching long relief to save the rest of the bullpen. He could be a valuable part of a good pitching staff. If I'm Kenny, I'm trying to move Contreras this offseason. I think a winter off for Buehrle and Garcia will do them good. Garland started off slow this year, but definitely backed up last year with a nice overall season. Vazquez is an enigma, to say the least. He has too much talent to give up on. I think you go out an improve the bullpen, and have this as your rotation next year: Garland, Buehrle, Garcia, Vazquez, McCarthy.

I guess it makes sense to look at trading Jose since he's clearly the oldest member of our staff, and also since he doesn't make a lot of money and should still command very good value. OTOH though I really like having at least one starter who is capable of overpowering and fooling hitters to get a big win. Freddy used to be close to Contreras in that department, and even though I have a feeling he will rebound, you still can't count on that happening. Javy, even though he throws in the 90's, never looks overpowering unless he is getting his change and breaking stuff over and the failure of his change and breaking stuff was what contributed to his crappy performances this year.

Now if KW say traded Jose and came back with a signing of Jason Schmidt, I'd like that move. But I think he's going to price himself out of our market, especially coming off a year that saw us miss in the playoffs when we were favored by many to repeat as World Champs.

DaleJRFan
09-24-2006, 06:18 PM
So then odds are that McCarthy and Haeger will get JC and MB's starts. What happens if McCarthy only manages 3 innings? Does Ozzie bring in Haeger for long relief and then just move up the rest of the rotation in the event that Haeger can't pitch again the following day? Or would Tracey fill in the long relief if necessary?? I guess a knuckler can go two days in a row?

Hell, it can't be any worse than what Buehrle and Contreras have been doing lately. If you would have told me at the beginning of the seaosn that I would be happy with dropping 2 rookies in the rotation to replace our top two starters, I would have thought you were insane.

:whiner:

Sox-o-matic
09-24-2006, 06:25 PM
If you would have told me at the beginning of the seaosn that I would be happy with dropping 2 rookies in the rotation to replace our top two starters, I would have thought you were insane.

:whiner:

Really? If someone would have told me that at the beginning of the season, I'd be happy too because I would have thought we had clinched the division 10 games up.

Bulls_Fan
09-24-2006, 06:27 PM
If we are going for a World Series next season we can't have BOTH McCarthy and Haeger starting for us. I have always been a big proponent of veterans over young people. Having 1 is fine, but 2 would worry me.

StillMissOzzie
09-24-2006, 06:31 PM
I guess it makes sense to look at trading Jose since he's clearly the oldest member of our staff, and also since he doesn't make a lot of money and should still command very good value. OTOH though I really like having at least one starter who is capable of overpowering and fooling hitters to get a big win. Freddy used to be close to Contreras in that department, and even though I have a feeling he will rebound, you still can't count on that happening. Javy, even though he throws in the 90's, never looks overpowering unless he is getting his change and breaking stuff over and the failure of his change and breaking stuff was what contributed to his crappy performances this year.

Now if KW say traded Jose and came back with a signing of Jason Schmidt, I'd like that move. But I think he's going to price himself out of our market, especially coming off a year that saw us miss in the playoffs when we were favored by many to repeat as World Champs.

Contreras was just signed to a 3 year extension, so I don't agree with either of your premises, that he's on the trading block nor not making a lot of money. I'll have to look up the new terms and edit them in here. [ Edit: 3 yrs/$29M for 2007-2009 ]
As for Buehrle getting skipped, I would agree with those who do NOT consider this a concession. MB has stunk out loud lately, giving up runs both early and often. I read earlier today that he's given up 1st inning runs in his last 5 or 7 starts now. As long as they are all must-wins until it's official, I don't mind this move at all.

SMO
:gulp:

Sox-o-matic
09-24-2006, 06:38 PM
Contreras was just signed to a 3 year extension, so I don't agree with either of your premises, that he's on the trading block nor not making a lot of money. I'll have to look up the new terms and edit them in here. [ Edit: 3 yrs/$29M for 2007-2009 ]
As for Buehrle getting skipped, I would agree with those who do NOT consider this a concession. MB has stunk out loud lately, giving up runs both early and often. I read earlier today that he's given up 1st inning runs in his last 5 or 7 starts now. As long as they are all must-wins until it's official, I don't mind this move at all.

SMO
:gulp:

I think Jose was making something like 8,9,10mil over the next three seasons. While that is a lot of money in reality, I said it's not a lot of money because Zito and Schmidt are going to get a lot more than that, and even some of these mediocre starters will get close to that. I mean if Millwood got like 12mil/year last year then Jose is freakin' bargain basement in comparison.

Also I'm not saying I'd like to trade Jose, but I couldn't imagine why KW wouldn't take offers for him.

Paulwny
09-24-2006, 06:45 PM
The only possible reason Jose may be traded, outside of a few close associates of his, how old is he ? You can probably add up to 5 yrs to what is listed on his bio page. It'll be KW's decision on his feelings towards Jose's possible age and if this is a factor for trading him.

soxtalker
09-24-2006, 09:20 PM
If we are going for a World Series next season we can't have BOTH McCarthy and Haeger starting for us. I have always been a big proponent of veterans over young people. Having 1 is fine, but 2 would worry me.

I agree that it is unlikely, but I don't think that it is impossible. I believe that Ozzie made a comment in the past couple of days that Haeger was more likely to be a starter than a reliever. Now, they could still use him in a long relief role in his first season, like McCarthy.

But there are other possibilities. Over the past couple of years, the Sox have relied upon their starters and closers a lot. When the starters couldn't handle the load this year, the load shifted to the middle relievers. It worked for awhile, and then they crumbled. If KW finds it easier to obtain a set of top-notch relievers that he can rely upon (that might cost us a couple of our veteren staters), he could decide to take the risk with rookie starters. Not highly likely, but possible.

Frontman
09-24-2006, 09:46 PM
But there's no time to get McCarthy and Haeger stretched out!


Brandon will be all right. It doesn't take him long to give up the long ball.

QCIASOXFAN
09-24-2006, 10:50 PM
When you couple dropping the starts for the pitchers that are the #1 and #2 pitchers in your rotation with comments from Ozzie before the game that he's sorry that this was a lost season and that it's too bad the White Sox couldn't make the playoffs for the fans, I take that as a concession.Buehrle and Jose are not #1 and #2 in the rotation at this point in the season. Garland and "Big Game Freddy" have stolen those roles.

35th&Shields
09-24-2006, 10:54 PM
Buehrle and Jose are not #1 and #2 in the rotation at this point in the season. Garland and "Big Game Freddy" have stolen those roles.

You're talking about two different things. I was talking about their actually spots in the rotation starting with opening day.

Hitmen77
09-24-2006, 11:02 PM
Buehrle's and Jose's struggles have been the biggest disappointments for me in 2006. Yeah, the bullpen has been terrible - but at least we knew going into this season that the bullpen was our potential weak spot. I don't think anyone would have guessed that MB and Jose would struggle so much this year.

It bothers me even more that neither are supposedly hurt (expect for Jose's recent hamstring injury). This means we just have to hope that these two healthy guys just start clicking again next year. If they don't, then '07 might be another uphill struggle to make the postseason.

DrCrawdad
09-24-2006, 11:16 PM
Nest season, I say start Haeger (sp?) the first game of every series to throw the oppositions hitters out of whack.

Just kiddin' but IIRC that is what I remember hearing during and after every start by Steve Sparks or any other past knuckleball pitcher when they faced the Sox.

It would be funny in a way though if Haeger started against the Twins and threw them out of whack for their (inevitable) post-season.

Nellie_Fox
09-25-2006, 02:11 AM
I have always been a big proponent of veterans over young people.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:117NyKDQtVcMEM:http://robpage.mlblogs.com/photos/uncategorized/dusty_baker.jpg I like the way you think.

soxinem1
09-25-2006, 08:32 AM
Too bad for MB, even though he has stunk since the last Sox-cub game, I'd like to see him get a chance to finish .500 instead of having a losing season.

SoxFan78
09-25-2006, 10:07 AM
Too bad for MB, even though he has stunk since the last Sox-cub game, I'd like to see him get a chance to finish .500 instead of having a losing season.

If you ask me MB has had plenty of chances to finish at or above .500.

fusillirob1983
09-25-2006, 10:35 AM
I don't think I saw this mentioned yet. Say that somehow the series in Minny actually means something. If we skip Mark in the rotation, that's one fewer game pitched by him and one more game pitched by Jon. If we had a chance to keep our playoff hopes with two games left in the season, I'd want Freddy and Jon pitching too.

Before commenting on my post, I'd like to point out that I already know that we need to win out and Minny needs to drop 3 of 4 to KC.

sox1970
09-25-2006, 10:40 AM
I don't think I saw this mentioned yet. Say that somehow the series in Minny actually means something. If we skip Mark in the rotation, that's one fewer game pitched by him and one more game pitched by Jon. If we had a chance to keep our playoff hopes with two games left in the season, I'd want Freddy and Jon pitching too.

Before commenting on my post, I'd like to point out that I already know that we need to win out and Minny needs to drop 3 of 4 to KC.

Twins will clinch a playoff spot tonight or Tuesday.

If they skip Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, and Vazquez can pitch the Twins series on regular rest.

TDog
09-25-2006, 01:49 PM
Nest season, I say start Haeger (sp?) the first game of every series to throw the oppositions hitters out of whack.

Just kiddin' but IIRC that is what I remember hearing during and after every start by Steve Sparks or any other past knuckleball pitcher when they faced the Sox.

It would be funny in a way though if Haeger started against the Twins and threw them out of whack for their (inevitable) post-season.

When Wilbur Wood was with the White Sox (thought I would run out of W's there), he pitched generally had priority, often starting as soon as he had two days' rest. One season his schedule seemed to be every Sunday and Wednesday. Stan Bahnsen and Steve Stone also started on two day's rest, comprising a three-man rotation for awhile. Stone sometimes talks about how much he hates Chuck Tanner for starting him on a Thursday night and Sunday afternoon in Texas in the middle of the summer.

If Haegar is going to be successful, he better have more than a knuckleball. Even during some of Wilbur Wood's good seasons I saw some bad innings. I think in the end it was hitters seeing a lot of him that made it easier for them to hit him.

Bulls_Fan
09-25-2006, 02:18 PM
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:117NyKDQtVcMEM:http://robpage.mlblogs.com/photos/uncategorized/dusty_baker.jpg I like the way you think.

Haha, "Hey dude."

I didn't mean playing ZERO kids. IMO if we are going to make a serious run for the World Series we cannot have them littered in our lineup.

nysox35
09-25-2006, 02:43 PM
Twins will clinch a playoff spot tonight or Tuesday.

If they skip Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, and Vazquez can pitch the Twins series on regular rest.

Nope, we go 2-0 and the Twins lose a game today or tomorrow.

fusillirob1983
09-25-2006, 03:32 PM
Twins will clinch a playoff spot tonight or Tuesday.

If they skip Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, and Vazquez can pitch the Twins series on regular rest.

Right, I figured that out wrong. Either way, it'd be one more start for someone who's been pitching better than Mark lately.

Ishmookie
09-25-2006, 04:02 PM
Heager and McCarthy actually might pitch well, if the Sox aren't eliminated by the time they get to minny (highly unlikely) they still have a shot. It's essentially a playoff series. Don't Stop Believin'.