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View Full Version : Dodgers offer Gagne for Howry


bringbackrobin
02-28-2002, 03:37 PM
But KW is too stupid to accept.

From ESPN: The local sports radio stations are reporting the Dodgers are interested in trading for Bobby Howry to fill their closer role. The Dodgers are reportedly offering starter Eric Gagne. Howry has experience in the closer role, he saved 28 of 34 opportunities in '99. GM K. Williams has said publically that the deal currently offered by LA will not happen.

http://games.espn.go.com/cgi/flb/request.dll?CORRESPONDENTS&Param0=4

rdivaldi
02-28-2002, 03:41 PM
Why do you think that KW should accept this offer?

Not arguing, just curious as to why you think he should do it.

TimChamp
02-28-2002, 03:58 PM
I wouldn't do it, but I would tell them that I would do it for Paul Lo Duca. :D:

The real interesting thing in that article were the predictions...

Predictions.... Central - Sox 92-70, Twins 84-78, Indians 84-78, Royals 74-88, Tigers 73-89 East - Yankees 98-64, Red Sox 89-73, Jays 81-81, Rays 71-91, Orioles 63-99 West - Mariners 91-71, A's 86-76, Rangers 84-78, Angels 75-87. I picked 4 of the 6 division winners last year and 7 of the 8 playoff teams so take it for what its worth. ***** I previously said 5 of 8 which was a misprint, Ill proof read a little closer from now on ******* Ill say the Cubs go 85-77 for 2nd in the Central - no playoffs.

:o:

harwar
02-28-2002, 04:01 PM
That story has been around for weeks.What with(by all reports)Howrys'velocity being back up,i'm sure evans would love to pull that trade off.I used to really like gagne but he was just plain bad last year and i don't think he was hurt.

Soxboyrob
02-28-2002, 04:01 PM
Both Kenny Williams and Danny Evans were quoted today in the Sun Times as saying that they hadn't spoken to each other about any potential trades in over 6 weeks. Kenny said he has nothing whatsoever cooking w/ the Dodgers and that this is purely rumor mill stuff w/ no legs.

cheeses_h_rice
02-28-2002, 04:05 PM
Gagne must really suck for the Sox not to even be considering this trade. We have so many guys we could stick in the pen, but we are lacking some true starters...

bjmarte
02-28-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Gagne must really suck for the Sox not to even be considering this trade. We have so many guys we could stick in the pen, but we are lacking some true starters...

I'm not really a numbers cruncher and I know nothing about Gagne, but it sure would seem like there must be something about him the front office just doesn't like.

RedPinStripes
02-28-2002, 04:23 PM
I'm still not sure about Gagne. He could be no better then gas can or worse. Then there is a slight chance that Howry can get the heater back and look like an MLB pitcher again.

LongDistanceFan
02-28-2002, 05:53 PM
the sox should get a little more from this trade, esp if gascan fastball is coming back

kermittheefrog
02-28-2002, 05:57 PM
Eric Gagne is like Kip Wells west, if his management would quit screwing with him for 5 seconds and let him have a stable role he might turn into a good pitcher like everyone expects of him. I'd make the deal, we have a deep bullpen even without Howry.

LongDistanceFan
02-28-2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Eric Gagne is like Kip Wells west, if his management would quit screwing with him for 5 seconds and let him have a stable role he might turn into a good pitcher like everyone expects of him. I'd make the deal, we have a deep bullpen even without Howry. good point and that is if the sox management thinks of him as you said.

Daver
02-28-2002, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Eric Gagne is like Kip Wells west, if his management would quit screwing with him for 5 seconds and let him have a stable role he might turn into a good pitcher like everyone expects of him. I'd make the deal, we have a deep bullpen even without Howry.

I have to agree with Kermit on this one.KW may be able to get a little more out of Evans though,the Dodgers are desperate for a closer,and Evans has to do something to repair the idiot image he has created for himself in L.A.

voodoochile
02-28-2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by daver


I have to agree with Kermit on this one.KW may be able to get a little more out of Evans though,the Dodgers are desperate for a closer,and Evans has to do something to repair the idiot image he has created for himself in L.A.

We throw in Lee and Ginter and they keep Gagne and give us Shawn Green...

baggio202
02-28-2002, 06:47 PM
do it..gagne has a much bigger upside than howry...dont we have enough broken down arms on this staff???...atleast gagne is healthy and if he reaches potential he could be a good number 3 starter....a few guys from the mlb dodger board really seem to think gagne is the real deal...it sure cant hurt..

RichH55
02-28-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
do it..gagne has a much bigger upside than howry...dont we have enough broken down arms on this staff???...atleast gagne is healthy and if he reaches potential he could be a good number 3 starter....a few guys from the mlb dodger board really seem to think gagne is the real deal...it sure cant hurt..


We have an organization chalk full of guys with potential who if they reach it are the next big thing.....A bird in the Hand is worth two in the bush here.....Assuming Howry is showing signs of coming back he is a guy you have relatively cheap for the setup role, who is not directly coming off an injury...I like Gagne too, but you have to get value on your trades, and unless Royce is somehow dealt in this deal and we pick something else up then I'm willing to wait on a deal for Howry

Daver
02-28-2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



We have an organization chalk full of guys with potential who if they reach it are the next big thing.....A bird in the Hand is worth two in the bush here.....Assuming Howry is showing signs of coming back he is a guy you have relatively cheap for the setup role, who is not directly coming off an injury...I like Gagne too, but you have to get value on your trades, and unless Royce is somehow dealt in this deal and we pick something else up then I'm willing to wait on a deal for Howry

This oppurtunity may be the best chance to get more than Howry's value,if he is terrible again this year he has as much value as Royce.

RichH55
02-28-2002, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by daver


This oppurtunity may be the best chance to get more than Howry's value,if he is terrible again this year he has as much value as Royce.


I agree.....the big question mark has always been will he suck again......Gagne has similar question marks around him...Its SCOTT RUFFCORN! then its SCOTT Ruffcorn...then Scott Ruffcorn then s. ruffcorn...then minor leaguer s. ruffcorn then journeyman too much hype s. ruffcorn.......Gagne is no sure thing either:) But if Royce is gone then i would take my chances with the deal

Daver
02-28-2002, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



I agree.....the big question mark has always been will he suck again......Gagne has similar question marks around him...Its SCOTT RUFFCORN! then its SCOTT Ruffcorn...then Scott Ruffcorn then s. ruffcorn...then minor leaguer s. ruffcorn then journeyman too much hype s. ruffcorn.......Gagne is no sure thing either:) But if Royce is gone then i would take my chances with the deal Gagne and an ugly ballgirl for Howry and Clayton?

I would jump on that deal.

RichH55
02-28-2002, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by daver
Gagne and an ugly ballgirl for Howry and Clayton?

I would jump on that deal.


Can she be petite?

Cheryl
02-28-2002, 07:32 PM
You know, I got called a trixie the other day just because I mentioned Frank Thomas' butt. Now you want petite ball girls in exchange for one of the better looking guys on the team?

Daver
02-28-2002, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
You know, I got called a trixie the other day just because I mentioned Frank Thomas' butt. Now you want petite ball girls in exchange for one of the better looking guys on the team?

I never mentioned petite.Glad he has looks,cause the guy sucks at baseball.

RichH55
02-28-2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
You know, I got called a trixie the other day just because I mentioned Frank Thomas' butt. Now you want petite ball girls in exchange for one of the better looking guys on the team?


Well If I asked for pigtails(assuming legal) than we have to throw in a prospect too so I thought i wouldn't press my luck.....Though Trixie works as a nickname for you..glad to have you aboard Trixie:)

Cheryl
02-28-2002, 07:38 PM
Thanks Ma'am to you, young man.

Daver
02-28-2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Thanks Ma'am to you, young man.

I think you have been warned Rich.

RichH55
02-28-2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Thanks Ma'am to you, young man.


And I'm going to stop now before I get way too dirty-minded and cause some issues...goodnight all!

RichH55
02-28-2002, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by daver


I think you have been warned Rich.


And oddly Daver, this is a more menacing warning than a certain bow and arrow combo out there

kermittheefrog
02-28-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



I agree.....the big question mark has always been will he suck again......Gagne has similar question marks around him...Its SCOTT RUFFCORN! then its SCOTT Ruffcorn...then Scott Ruffcorn then s. ruffcorn...then minor leaguer s. ruffcorn then journeyman too much hype s. ruffcorn.......Gagne is no sure thing either:) But if Royce is gone then i would take my chances with the deal

Ruffcorn never posted a 130/46 K/BB in the majors probably not in the minors either with his "control". Ruffcorn never broke 10 IP in one major league season until he was 27. It's unfair to compare Gagne to a stiff like that.

czalgosz
02-28-2002, 08:12 PM
Well, that's disappointing... Eric Gagne may have had a bad ERA, but his peripheral stats point to him being a solid to above-average starter. 121 BBs, 239 Ks in 283 career IP is very good, better than anything that Kip Wells or Jon Garland can put together.

And this is the most encouraging part of Gagne's performance -

2000 - 1.64 WHIP, 1.34 Ks/BB
2001 - 1.25 WHIP, 2.83 Ks/BB

His ERA was not significantly changed from 2000 to 2001 (5.15 to 4.75) but he was much better at striking people out, not walking people, and keeping runners off base. He just got unlucky a few times. He has more upside than either Garland or Wells does.

I still support Bobby Howry, and think he'll bounce back this season, but unless Sox scouts are seeing something that I'm not, I predict that the Sox will regret not trading for Eric Gagne.

czalgosz
02-28-2002, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Ruffcorn never posted a 130/46 K/BB in the majors probably not in the minors either with his "control". Ruffcorn never broke 10 IP in one major league season until he was 27. It's unfair to compare Gagne to a stiff like that.

Scott Ruffcorn was a perfect example of why pitcher's minor-league stats don't translate to the majors the way hitter's minor-league stats do. His fastball was good enough to dominate at AAA, but at the big-league level, it was meat. Ruffcorn had great velocity, but you can throw 100 mph at the big-league level and you'll get lit up unless either (a) you have a breaking or off-speed pitch to complement it or (b) you have great movement on your fastball. Scott Ruffcorn had neither of these things. Alan Embree is another example, but he gets more chances because he happend to throw with his left hand.

longshot7
02-28-2002, 09:12 PM
I have not heard that rumor out here, and I listen to those stations. so take that for what's worth...

that being said, Kermit is right. Gagne IS Kip Wells west. Very similar - high potential, nothing to show for it as yet. I'm divided on whether or not we should do it, but my guess is it's not gonna happen anyway.

Of course, LA has three pitchers competing for the 5 spot, and they'll probably deal one. My guess is it won't be Gagne, but Omar Daal.

Cheryl
02-28-2002, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



And oddly Daver, this is a more menacing warning than a certain bow and arrow combo out there

That's cause I'm a librarian. We know how to hurt students.

RichH55
02-28-2002, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


That's cause I'm a librarian. We know how to hurt students.

That's the most disconcerting thing I've read all night

RichH55
02-28-2002, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Ruffcorn never posted a 130/46 K/BB in the majors probably not in the minors either with his "control". Ruffcorn never broke 10 IP in one major league season until he was 27. It's unfair to compare Gagne to a stiff like that.


Well I was just comparing them in that they were both hot-shot, pretty well regarded pitching prospects and perhaps that isnt something to bet the farm on

dugwood31
03-01-2002, 01:24 AM
Seems to me that Gagne and Howry are in similar stages of their careers. Both have shown potential but had bad years last year. It seems like a starter has a higher upside for the club than a reliever. Seems like with all the rightie arms in the pen we could do without Howry. Gagne in the rotation would guarantee that Glover and Biddle and Wright at least start out the year in the pen, so rightie relievers is not a thin spot for us.

RichH55
03-01-2002, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by dugwood31
Seems to me that Gagne and Howry are in similar stages of their careers. Both have shown potential but had bad years last year. It seems like a starter has a higher upside for the club than a reliever. Seems like with all the rightie arms in the pen we could do without Howry. Gagne in the rotation would guarantee that Glover and Biddle and Wright at least start out the year in the pen, so rightie relievers is not a thin spot for us.



Similar points in their careers? Unless I'm way off base here...Gagne never has really had a proving year....Howry was closer or at least in the mix for the role until the injury and emergence of Foulke.....Not many question Gagne's talent, but talent isn't eerything.....Plus the Sox do not see Wright as a reliever(at least not at this stage) and Biddle hasnt been cleared yet either.....I would like the addition of Gagne, but adding him isn't a panacea....It just changes one ? into another ?....though if it takes Royce out of the equation I'm all for it

dugwood31
03-01-2002, 01:38 AM
When I say similar points in their careers, I guess I mean that they're both young and both have potential but haven't completely proven themselves yet. I know Howry had a decent season in 99 and a good season in 00, but he's been injured and a starter is just more valuable to us. Gagne has shown flashes of brilliance, if I remember correctly. And I suspect Biddle and Glover are relievers in the long term and I think the chances are good that Wright lands in the bullpen before all is said and done.