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MadetoOrta
09-21-2006, 07:35 AM
In today's Daily Herald, Guillen is quoted as saying he started Sweeney over Anderson because "Brian's had trouble in the past against Bonderman." The writer went on to point out that Anderson had never faced Bonderman previously unless he faced him in the minors - which he didn't. Why does this bother me? Guillen's making up excuses to keep Anderson out of the lineup. Now it seems personal. He could have said "just going with the percentages" or "I manage with my gut - want to see what Sweeney can do."

Bothers me. You?

jenn2080
09-21-2006, 07:37 AM
A month ago yes, today not so much. Why? Because it is not a surprise.

soxfanatlanta
09-21-2006, 07:40 AM
A month ago yes, today not so much. Why? Because it is not a surprise.

This whole BA saga is just getting pitiful. I would not be too surprised if he's gone next year.

samram
09-21-2006, 07:59 AM
A month ago yes, today not so much. Why? Because it is not a surprise.

Yeah. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that Ozzie can't stand BA and will likely try to get KW to move him in the offseason. It will be interesting to see if KW pushes back at Ozzie. That's not to say that BA hasn't done some things worthy of criticism, but he gave the team the best chance to win and he wasn't used enough.

Myrtle72
09-21-2006, 08:17 AM
I had hoped that BA was out last night because he was hurt from the HBP. But this is just really stupid now. From our perspective, Ozzie's decisions look completely irrational. You've really gotta wonder if there's something else we're not seeing.

oeo
09-21-2006, 08:20 AM
What is Ozzie thinking if he's going to play Sweeney, who has a total of about 20 major league AB's, and have a better game than Anderson? Yeah, send the kid out there that has no experience, when we really need to win.

I've got a bad feeling that Anderson won't be here next year, and that's a shame if he's not.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 08:22 AM
Why does this bother me? Guillen's making up excuses to keep Anderson out of the lineup. Now it seems personal.

Bothers me. You?

You know whats funny, a caller alluded to this. There is now definitely speculation among fans that theres some nonsense-behind-the-scenes stuff going on between Ozz and Anderson. A couple of Forward-Thinking WSI'ers here were roundly Mocked for suggesting this recently, but hey, I didnt think it was out of the realm of possibility. Theres no reason Brian Anderson shouldnt be playing every day, with Pods being the one grabbing some bench

October26
09-21-2006, 08:28 AM
BA is playing winter ball in Venezuela, right? I recommend he stay at Ozzie's place over the winter so they can "get to know each other better." I don't get what's up with Ozzie and BA - because a guy can't hit Ozzie doesn't like him - hell, Ozzie himself was a slap hitter at best.

October26
Sox fan since 1971
October 26, 2005. The happiest day of my life.

MadetoOrta
09-21-2006, 08:28 AM
What is Ozzie thinking if he's going to play Sweeney, who has a total of about 20 major league AB's, and have a better game than Anderson? Yeah, send the kid out there that has no experience, when we really need to win.

I've got a bad feeling that Anderson won't be here next year, and that's a shame if he's not.

Yesterday I listed BA's career [including U of Arizona] stats. Projected over 145-160 games, he's averaged .300 25 HR and 90 RBI He's not a lead-off hitter. He's a future #3 hitter who is exceptional with the glove. I just can't see KW get rid of BA in light of his trading Reed and Rowand in the past few years. KW made an organizational decision that BA was the future. I think Guillen is forcing a confrontation. There is - without question - more here than we know. It will be interesting to see who wins KW or Guillen.

I hope not to be reading in SI next July about how Boston's Brian Anderson is the biggest surprise of the year and the toast of the town. :angry:

Myrtle72
09-21-2006, 08:31 AM
I've got a bad feeling that Anderson won't be here next year, and that's a shame if he's not.

I hope that BA gets all the opportunity he deserves, but I believe that if he and Ozzie really don't get along, he should be traded to a team that will give him a chance.

Of course, that's not really Ozzie's decision.

Beautox
09-21-2006, 08:32 AM
You know whats funny, a caller alluded to this. There is now definitely speculation among fans that theres some nonsense-behind-the-scenes stuff going on between Ozz and Anderson. A couple of Forward-Thinking WSI'ers here were roundly Mocked for suggesting this recently, but hey, I didnt think it was out of the realm of possibility. Theres no reason Brian Anderson shouldnt be playing every day, with Pods being the one grabbing some bench

Agreed, BA must be a nazi, the blond hair and blue eyes, it all makes sense now. But seriously Ozzie has put alot of players in positions to fail this year, and now we're paying the price. I think KW is pretty angered the way Ozzie has handled the rookies and vets and i honestly wouldn't mind seeing someone else at the helm next year. Looking forward to an intresting offseason. Go Sox!

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 08:35 AM
There is - without question - more here than we know. It will be interesting to see who wins KW or Guillen.

I hope not to be reading in SI next July about how Boston's Brian Anderson is the biggest surprise of the year and the toast of the town. :angry:


Yup. Heres a big :angry: to those who laughed at the people for suggesting this might be a reason.

PaulDrake
09-21-2006, 08:42 AM
There is now definitely speculation among fans that theres some nonsense-behind-the-scenes stuff going on between Ozz and Anderson. A couple of Forward-Thinking WSI'ers here were roundly Mocked for suggesting this recently, but hey, I didnt think it was out of the realm of possibility. Yes, when I suggested as much it went over like a lead balloon to at least one poster.

The Immigrant
09-21-2006, 08:48 AM
Relax, BA is going nowhere. He'll have a solid winter in Venezuela and will come back ready to rock. As for personal vendettas, given how much the organization has invested in BA, I don't think his departure is any more likely than Ozzie's.

HerzogVon
09-21-2006, 08:50 AM
Yesterday I listed BA's career [including U of Arizona] stats. Projected over 145-160 games, he's averaged .300 25 HR and 90 RBI He's not a lead-off hitter. He's a future #3 hitter who is exceptional with the glove. I just can't see KW get rid of BA in light of his trading Reed and Rowand in the past few years. KW made an organizational decision that BA was the future. I think Guillen is forcing a confrontation. There is - without question - more here than we know. It will be interesting to see who wins KW or Guillen.

I hope not to be reading in SI next July about how Boston's Brian Anderson is the biggest surprise of the year and the toast of the town. :angry:

Never thought I'd be pulling for KW over Ozzie - or KW over anyone, for that matter - but that's the way it's starting to look. Is Ozzie just nuts? Does he want to win, or does he just want to exert his will, even if it means pulling the ballclub down around his ears? Maybe he's been spending too much time with his buddy, Vicente Fox...

btw - The biggest enemy of "Ozzie Ball" is Ozzie.

Paulwny
09-21-2006, 08:56 AM
Yes, when I suggested as much it went over like a lead balloon to at least one poster.


Same here !!!!!!

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 09:00 AM
Same here !!!!!!


Well, PaulDrake, Paulwny, and even Itsnotrequired, cheers. There is something to it, thats become apparent the last couple of weeks

dwalteroo
09-21-2006, 09:01 AM
Obviously, we don't have all the facts. But on the face of it, BA seems like a stand up guy. He acknowledged when he wasn't hitting earlier in the year, and said he was glad he was being given the chance to work out the kinks. He is absolutely rock solid on defense and has been hitting increasingly much better since June or July. Unless he did something absolutely ridiculous, he deserves to be on the team next year and the Sox would be unwise to trade him just to get rid of him. I hope Ozzie realizes the potential he has in him.

ondafarm
09-21-2006, 09:08 AM
Agreed, BA must be a nazi, the blond hair and blue eyes, it all makes sense now. . .

I wish you wouldn't use the n-word there. It represents a political party that allowed the rise to power of quite possibly the most evil man in the history of the world. As such, I doubt BA is in any way affiliated with it.

Aryan, with blond hair and blue eyes and Nordic features, would be a prefferred alternative.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 09:08 AM
Obviously, we don't have all the facts. But on the face of it, BA seems like a stand up guy. He acknowledged when he wasn't hitting earlier in the year, and said he was glad he was being given the chance to work out the kinks. He is absolutely rock solid on defense and has been hitting increasingly much better since June or July. Unless he did something absolutely ridiculous, he deserves to be on the team next year and the Sox would be unwise to trade him just to get rid of him. I hope Ozzie realizes the potential he has in him.

Ive met Brian Anderson on a couple of occasions, and both times, he definitely did not rub me the right way. In fact, I was with a poster here when I had an unfavorable encounter with him. Its not worth talking about it and wasnt that big a deal. As long as hes a SOX player, Im going to root for him and try not to let my personal feelings affect the way I feel about him on the field.

Jerko
09-21-2006, 09:09 AM
What bothers me is that 3 days ago Ozzie said he was going with his starters the rest of the year, and since then, he's used 3 different lineups. I didn't see anybody in Detroit's lineup these past 3 days that started the year in the minors....................

veeter
09-21-2006, 09:33 AM
I wish you wouldn't use the n-word there. It represents a political party that allowed the rise to power of quite possibly the most evil man in the history of the world. As such, I doubt BA is in any way affiliated with it.

Aryan, with blond hair and blue eyes and Nordic features, would be a prefferred alternative.You have got to be kidding.

jenn2080
09-21-2006, 09:38 AM
Ive met Brian Anderson on a couple of occasions, and both times, he definitely did not rub me the right way. In fact, I was with a poster here when I had an unfavorable encounter with him. Its not worth talking about it and wasnt that big a deal. As long as hes a SOX player, Im going to root for him and try not to let my personal feelings affect the way I feel about him on the field.


One of your Brian incidents he didnt do anything wrong. He was talking to friends and family and signing for kids and you asked him to say hi to your video camera and he asked you for what. You got offended and you then proceeded to tell him that playing for the White Sox is an honor. Which later you proceeded to tell this same story and you were called out because you said Brian was "scared" after you said that. Brian ignored you. End of story.

MarySwiss
09-21-2006, 09:39 AM
Yes, when I suggested as much it went over like a lead balloon to at least one poster.
The other night after BA got HBP, it didn't exactly look like he and Ozzie were having a "feel good" discussion.

Iwritecode
09-21-2006, 09:40 AM
You have got to be kidding.

You must not have been around when that word got thrown around pretty freely and caused our membership #'s to drop rapidly...

spiffie
09-21-2006, 09:42 AM
Ozzie makes up stats to bench Brian because that's how he's going to motivate him!

Gavin
09-21-2006, 09:43 AM
No, it doesn't really bother me. The Sox didn't lose last night because Ryan Sweeney was playing CF.

itsnotrequired
09-21-2006, 09:45 AM
Well, PaulDrake, Paulwny, and even Itsnotrequired, cheers. There is something to it, thats become apparent the last couple of weeks

Remember, I was just speculating that there was a problem. It does annoy me though that Ozzie "made up" an excuse as to why he didn't start Anderson.

Jerko
09-21-2006, 09:48 AM
Remember, I was just speculating that there was a problem. It does annoy me though that Ozzie "made up" an excuse as to why he didn't start Anderson.

Isn't there a thread somewhere (maybe the drinking team thread) where Ozzie Junior is calling BA a piece of ****?? I'm sure if Jr. thinks that way it's because Sr. probably does too. If that story is true, BA should break his foot off in JRs ass. Nice to see personal issues effect the managerial decisions. BA played the first few months while he sucked, now that he is improved he's gonna sit? Doesn't make any sense.

CaptainBallz
09-21-2006, 09:51 AM
The other night after BA got HBP, it didn't exactly look like he and Ozzie were having a "feel good" discussion.

I saw that too and didn't see much about it here. All I saw was BA telling Ozzie "I'm not going to run" in a manner that looked like a defiant 16 year old.
Hearing this BS from Ozzie about Bonderman seals my opinion that there's definitely something not in the open with this situation.

Personally, I would hate to lose BA because of conflicting personalities. Hopefully, it ends in an "Any Given Sunday" kind of way...

chaerulez
09-21-2006, 09:52 AM
A comment like that from Ozzie is unprofessional and uncalled for. Why is he trying throw BA under ths bus? I don't think BA will be a 3 hitter in the majors, unless he really turns it around. But I don't see how he can't be a 6 guy (.270 20 HR 80 RBI) and with his defense, he'll be a valuble starter to any team. It's too bad Ozzie didn't have the guts to call out struggling veterans this year when Vazquez and Garcia were being awful a couple months ago. But I guess ripping on BA, Tracey, and McCarthy is fine.

jenn2080
09-21-2006, 09:52 AM
Remember, I was just speculating that there was a problem. It does annoy me though that Ozzie "made up" an excuse as to why he didn't start Anderson.


Isn't your speculations as good as Kenny Williams and Jerry?

CaptainBallz
09-21-2006, 09:53 AM
Isn't there a thread somewhere (maybe the drinking team thread) where Ozzie Junior is calling BA a piece of ****?? I'm sure if Jr. thinks that way it's because Sr. probably does too. If that story is true, BA should break his foot off in JRs ass. Nice to see personal issues effect the managerial decisions. BA played the first few months while he sucked, now that he is improved he's gonna sit? Doesn't make any sense.

This is the 2nd time this has been alluded to. Is there a link? I'd rather not sift through all 18 DT threads...:tongue:

Jerko
09-21-2006, 09:59 AM
This is the 2nd time this has been alluded to. Is there a link? I'd rather not sift through all 18 DT threads...:tongue:


Not the original post, but the first one I found

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1352173&postcount=122

Beautox
09-21-2006, 09:59 AM
I wish you wouldn't use the n-word there. It represents a political party that allowed the rise to power of quite possibly the most evil man in the history of the world. As such, I doubt BA is in any way affiliated with it.

Aryan, with blond hair and blue eyes and Nordic features, would be a prefferred alternative.

Seriously, relax it was a joke, and it wasn't aimed at anyone sans BA and Ozzies obvious distaste for the kid. Secondly if i can't say the word nazi, then i would prefer people that constantly quote Animal House on WSI get their historical facts straight and quit laughing at the expense of American lives lost at pearl harbor.

MadetoOrta
09-21-2006, 10:00 AM
This situation [albeit different] feels like the time the Sox threw Sammy Sosa under the bus because he wouldn't slap hit like Walt Hriniak wanted. "He'll never hit major league pitching" was the company line. Notwithstanding the 'roids, Sosa became a solid powere hitter 30-40 HRs without the juice and would have been a mainstay in RF for years to come had we kept him. I have a bad feeling some smart GM is going to push a deal and steal BA.

KW, please do the right thing and keep BA and throw Guillen [and Cora!] under the bus.

mrwag
09-21-2006, 10:16 AM
Man years ago I ran into Ozzie in a shopping mall after the white Sox touring autograph session. We were in a collectors shop that had baseball cards, coins etc. Ozzie was a total jerk. He came in, took a look at some cards, and began ripping the guy a new one. I can totally see Jr. acting the same way if he gets his temper from his dad.

southside rocks
09-21-2006, 10:17 AM
I have no more idea than anyone else here what's really going on between Ozzie and BA, but I find it kind of funny that Anderson is getting the free pass and he's the persecuted one and Ozzie is the ogre.

What if, and this is purely hypothetical -- what if Anderson has partied a little too hard this summer and has shown up at the park hungover, not in condition to play, or has disregarded some other behavior guidelines that Ozzie maintains?

First of all, we wouldn't know that, because Ozzie would never go to the press and say 'this kid's boozing it up and it's hurting his game.' He just wouldn't. That kind of thing will follow a player for life, and Ozzie wouldn't do that.

Anderson hasn't said jack so far about any of this, right? So we don't have any info from him to suggest why he's fallen into Ozzie's bad books (assuming he has).

Ozzie gives some game-related excuse that turns out to be hokum, but what if he's avoiding the real reason because (a) it's none of the public's business and (b) he is giving Anderson the opportunity to work things out with him and possibly with management?

Those are speculations, but I gotta say, they're as valid as any other speculations on this topic on this board that I have seen.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. It's dangerous to assume.

CPditka
09-21-2006, 10:19 AM
I am very curious why BA is being treated like this. Hopefully this will eventually have to real reason attached to it. I'd really like to know why Ozzie hates him so much. It seems like he went sour on BA around the All Star Break, buy why?

Jerko
09-21-2006, 10:23 AM
I don't know the facts of these incidents, but I do know Ozzie says one thing and does another. I don't believe a word out of his mouth and if I have to choose who I think is a liar in this scenario, it's Oz.

itsnotrequired
09-21-2006, 10:24 AM
I don't know the facts of these incidents, but I do know Ozzie says one thing and does another. I don't believe a word out of his mouth and if I have to choose who I think is a liar in this scenario, it's Oz.

Cut Ozzie some slack; he won the WS last year.

34 Inch Stick
09-21-2006, 10:33 AM
KW has traded Rowand, Reed and Young in a two year time span. BA is his guy. If Ozzie wants to push BA out, Ozzie will be the one finding himself looking for a new job.

Ozzie is a decent manager...but he is very replaceable.

Martinigirl
09-21-2006, 10:33 AM
It has been painfully obvious for some time that the decision to not play Brian has been a personal one. No matter how anyone tried to juggle the numbers (particularly in the second half), the team was better with Brian in Center, yet Ozzie kept him out of the lineup. To the detriment of the team, he played a far less compotent fielder, which costs up runs/games. Ozzie would then say he was putting a line up on the field that gave us the best chance to win. That was bull **** and everyone knew it. Can anyone honestly say that Sweeney gave us a better chance last night?

And for those who are saying that perhaps this is Brian's fault and not Ozzie's, guess who is the one in charge? Not Brian. Ozzie is the manager, and he should be adult enough to put aside whatever issues he has with a player for the sake of the team. And if Brian was out of control, or a horrible or irresponsible teammate, he should have been sent down to the minors. But the GM, who is privy to the internal workings of the team, didn't do that. So what does that tell you? Maybe that the problem is not with the player but the manager.

daveeym
09-21-2006, 10:48 AM
I have no more idea than anyone else here what's really going on between Ozzie and BA, but I find it kind of funny that Anderson is getting the free pass and he's the persecuted one and Ozzie is the ogre.

What if, and this is purely hypothetical -- what if Anderson has partied a little too hard this summer and has shown up at the park hungover, not in condition to play, or has disregarded some other behavior guidelines that Ozzie maintains?

First of all, we wouldn't know that, because Ozzie would never go to the press and say 'this kid's boozing it up and it's hurting his game.' He just wouldn't. That kind of thing will follow a player for life, and Ozzie wouldn't do that.

Anderson hasn't said jack so far about any of this, right? So we don't have any info from him to suggest why he's fallen into Ozzie's bad books (assuming he has).

Ozzie gives some game-related excuse that turns out to be hokum, but what if he's avoiding the real reason because (a) it's none of the public's business and (b) he is giving Anderson the opportunity to work things out with him and possibly with management?

Those are speculations, but I gotta say, they're as valid as any other speculations on this topic on this board that I have seen.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. It's dangerous to assume. Ozzie should have have fined him and benched him for breaking team rules then. He wouldn't have to spill the beans then, it would show there is an issue there, and him and the team wouldn't look like a bunch of morons. Because as it stands now, it looks like it's personal, it appears to have rubbed off on the rest of the team and makes it look like the house is in dissaray.

southside rocks
09-21-2006, 10:57 AM
Ozzie should have have fined him and benched him for breaking team rules then. He wouldn't have to spill the beans then, it would show there is an issue there, and him and the team wouldn't look like a bunch of morons. Because as it stands now, it looks like it's personal, it appears to have rubbed off on the rest of the team and makes it look like the house is in dissaray.

Now that I'll buy.

windycityson
09-21-2006, 11:02 AM
how can we get on Ozzie so quick? Last year he was on our shoulders as we were parading him through the city. Now we are hunting him like Osama. The players didn't execute the way they should. Look at Pods, Buehrle, Cotts, and Vasquez did not fill our expectations. KW put a great team on the field on paper, but too bad paper doesn't get rings. Sure Ozzie is a loose cannon at times, but he lead us to the promised land and will lead us again in 07.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-21-2006, 11:02 AM
Remember, I was just speculating that there was a problem. It does annoy me though that Ozzie "made up" an excuse as to why he didn't start Anderson.

Perhaps Brian steals all the hotties from Ozzie Jr. :redneck

itsnotrequired
09-21-2006, 11:03 AM
how can we get on Ozzie so quick? Last year he was on our shoulders as we were parading him through the city. Now we are hunting him like Osama. The players didn't execute the way they should. Look at Pods, Buehrle, Cotts, and Vasquez did not fill our expectations. KW put a great team on the field on paper, but too bad paper doesn't get rings. Sure Ozzie is a loose cannon at times, but he lead us to the promised land and will lead us again in 07.

:rolleyes:

The Immigrant
09-21-2006, 11:09 AM
Perhaps Brian steals all the hotties from Ozzie Jr. :redneck

He's also been known to drink all the beer in the visiting clubhouse. :tongue:

slavko
09-21-2006, 11:19 AM
Three pages of posts and no one's rhymed Ozzie with Nazi?

SouthSide_HitMen
09-21-2006, 11:20 AM
He's also been known to drink all the beer in the visiting clubhouse. :tongue:

Hey that is my job. :D:

Getting back to the thread, Ozzie does and says many irrational things. Starting Mackowiak in CF at least 50 times is one of them. Hating Brian Anderson is another.

I didn't like the extension Kenny gave him last Memorial Day and I think Ozzie will not be here before his contract expires (or he will remain like Manuel until the contract ends as Reinsdorf does not like to pay two managers).

I hope in the interim Kenny is able to exert some pressure on Ozzie to play Anderson next season or find a capable replacement in CF if Kenny decides to allow Ozzie to indulge in his whims and personal vendettas. Kenny has had his own vendettas (http://www.chicagoist.com/attachments/chicago_benjy/2005_12_sports_frank_thomas.jpg) and has pretty much given Ozzie anything he requested but when push comes to shove, Kenny Williams will not allow Ozzie to cost Kenny his job.

kitekrazy
09-21-2006, 11:22 AM
I guess this is what happens when the team is not winning. We have to come up with soap opera type threads. It's like some people are auditioning for ESPN.

southside rocks
09-21-2006, 11:31 AM
I guess this is what happens when the team is not winning. We have to come up with soap opera type threads. It's like some people are auditioning for ESPN.

Good one. :cheers:

goon
09-21-2006, 11:44 AM
Kenny has had his own vendettas (http://www.chicagoist.com/attachments/chicago_benjy/2005_12_sports_frank_thomas.jpg) and has pretty much given Ozzie anything he requested but when push comes to shove, Kenny Williams will not allow Ozzie to cost Kenny his job.


while kenny certainly had a feud with frank, but he chose to not to bring him back because of health purposes AND as well as his attitude. chances are if frank came back to the sox, he probably wouldn't have succeeded the way he is in oakland and the white sox would probably be even further out of the WC and division lead. kenny just blew up on him after one too many negative comments about the sox.

i'm glad most of the people in this thread got it right; even if brian did something to irritate ozzie this year, ozzie should have dealt with it in a manner that would have helped the team, not just fuel his ego. i don't know the stats on how many games mack in CF cost us, if any, but with the way BA plays center and how well he has been hitting the ball, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON HE SHOULD NOT BE IN THE LINEUP. if this is the kinda of bull**** we are going to have to put up with as fans, i'd like to see a different manager (hate to say it). hopefully kenny and JR discuss this with ozzie in the offseason because i don't see brian going anywhere.

wassagstdu
09-21-2006, 12:13 PM
First, I love Ozzie, I have been his biggest fan since he came to the Sox as a rookie, I was absolutely overjoyed when he was named manager, and he delivered everything I could ever have dreamed of in 2005. For that he will always have my respect.

That said, I think (have a feeling, suspect) that he wants out and will not be back in 2007. I think he was deeply offended by the public dressing-down he got from KW, which coincided with the turning point in the Sox season. He has not gone out of his way, shall we say, to make sure that Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez didn't beat the Sox, thus embarassing KW, and after sticking with Anderson in the first half when he struggled, has basically trashed him in the second half when he played well. All of this does look like a feud with KW that has affected the team. Ozzie should never have sacrificed the team's interests for revenge (IF that is what happened), but it was KW who did the most damage (which did happen), in my humble opinion. KW demonstrated that he is loyal to the organization, not to his manager, and loyal to the point where he was willing to humiliate his manager publicly. How would you react if you were Ozzie? I heard no apology from KW.

.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 12:19 PM
Hey that is my job. :D:

Getting back to the thread, Ozzie does and says many irrational things. Starting Mackowiak in CF at least 50 times is one of them. Hating Brian Anderson is another.

I didn't like the extension Kenny gave him last Memorial Day and I think Ozzie will not be here before his contract expires (or he will remain like Manuel until the contract ends as Reinsdorf does not like to pay two managers).

I hope in the interim Kenny is able to exert some pressure on Ozzie to play Anderson next season or find a capable replacement in CF if Kenny decides to allow Ozzie to indulge in his whims and personal vendettas. Kenny has had his own vendettas (http://www.chicagoist.com/attachments/chicago_benjy/2005_12_sports_frank_thomas.jpg) and has pretty much given Ozzie anything he requested but when push comes to shove, Kenny Williams will not allow Ozzie to cost Kenny his job.

excellent post. Im not sure why it took as long as it did, for the fanbase to really get upset about Mackowiak continueing to play in Centerfield. He was NEVER a regular centerfielder to begin with.


In the coming weeks, we will surely find out that there was much more to the Ozzie/Mackowiak/Anderson saga than meets the eye. Of course, the forward-thinking people here already knew that :cool:

Jerko
09-21-2006, 12:22 PM
First, I love Ozzie, I have been his biggest fan since he came to the Sox as a rookie, I was absolutely overjoyed when he was named manager, and he delivered everything I could ever have dreamed of in 2005. For that he will always have my respect.

That said, I think (have a feeling, suspect) that he wants out and will not be back in 2007. I think he was deeply offended by the public dressing-down he got from KW, which coincided with the turning point in the Sox season. He has not gone out of his way, shall we say, to make sure that Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez didn't beat the Sox, thus embarassing KW, and after sticking with Anderson in the first half when he struggled, has basically trashed him in the second half when he played well. All of this does look like a feud with KW that has affected the team. Ozzie should never have sacrificed the team's interests for revenge (IF that is what happened), but it was KW who did the most damage (which did happen), in my humble opinion. KW demonstrated that he is loyal to the organization, not to his manager, and loyal to the point where he was willing to humiliate his manager publicly. How would you react if you were Ozzie? I heard no apology from KW.

.

Well, we all spend good $$$$$ on this team and to be subjected to a 3rd place finish because of personal vendettas and outright stubbornness to field a consistent lineup, well, it pisses me right the **** off. We don't go to these games for free and I'd like to see the "starting 9" of a defending WS winner more than 5 times in person during the season.

daveeym
09-21-2006, 12:31 PM
excellent post. Im not sure why it took as long as it did, for the fanbase to really get upset about Mackowiak continueing to play in Centerfield. He was NEVER a regular centerfielder to begin with.


In the coming weeks, we will surely find out that there was much more to the Ozzie/Mackowiak/Anderson saga than meets the eye. Of course, the forward-thinking people here already knew that :cool: Come on Hangar, stick to the conspiracies and waging war against the media. I've seen too many of your posts taking digs at the board/unnamed types of posters since you've been back and I only see flame wars as the end result. Serenity now.

stl_sox_fan
09-21-2006, 12:32 PM
Well, we all spend good $$$$$ on this team and to be subjected to a 3rd place finish because of personal vendettas and outright stubbornness to field a consistent lineup, well, it pisses me right the **** off. We don't go to these games for free and I'd like to see the "starting 9" of a defending WS winner more than 5 times in person during the season.

What exactly was their starting 9? I think the opening week was the last time I saw it regularly.

jenn2080
09-21-2006, 12:42 PM
excellent post. Im not sure why it took as long as it did, for the fanbase to really get upset about Mackowiak continueing to play in Centerfield. He was NEVER a regular centerfielder to begin with.


In the coming weeks, we will surely find out that there was much more to the Ozzie/Mackowiak/Anderson saga than meets the eye. Of course, the forward-thinking people here already knew that :cool:


People were not happy with Rob in center in about late May beginning of June. That has been what everyone has been bitching about for the whole season.

SoxShirt
09-21-2006, 12:42 PM
Well, we all spend good $$$$$ on this team and to be subjected to a 3rd place finish because of personal vendettas and outright stubbornness to field a consistent lineup, well, it pisses me right the **** off. We don't go to these games for free and I'd like to see the "starting 9" of a defending WS winner more than 5 times in person during the season.
I've only been to five games this season, and four out of the five times Mackowiak has started in center. That made me really mad considering BA is my favorite player. :angry:
On a totally different note, if BA gets traded, (and I really hope he doesn't) I am officially going to be a fan of whatever team he is on. (Only second to the Sox of course... :D:)

samram
09-21-2006, 12:57 PM
First, I love Ozzie, I have been his biggest fan since he came to the Sox as a rookie, I was absolutely overjoyed when he was named manager, and he delivered everything I could ever have dreamed of in 2005. For that he will always have my respect.

That said, I think (have a feeling, suspect) that he wants out and will not be back in 2007. I think he was deeply offended by the public dressing-down he got from KW, which coincided with the turning point in the Sox season. He has not gone out of his way, shall we say, to make sure that Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez didn't beat the Sox, thus embarassing KW, and after sticking with Anderson in the first half when he struggled, has basically trashed him in the second half when he played well. All of this does look like a feud with KW that has affected the team. Ozzie should never have sacrificed the team's interests for revenge (IF that is what happened), but it was KW who did the most damage (which did happen), in my humble opinion. KW demonstrated that he is loyal to the organization, not to his manager, and loyal to the point where he was willing to humiliate his manager publicly. How would you react if you were Ozzie? I heard no apology from KW.

.

Kenny did exactly what he had to do as an executive following that incident. I'm not going to get into it because it's been addressed ad nauseum on this site, but if Ozzie didn't like it, he should have conducted himself in a more professinal manner. KW owes Ozzie no apologies. Ozzie's job is to put the best team on the field everyday. If he didn't do that because he had an issue with KW, then he should be gone, 2005 championship or not.

southside rocks
09-21-2006, 12:59 PM
Kenny did exactly what he had to do as an executive following that incident. I'm not going to get into it because it's been addressed ad nauseum on this site, but if Ozzie didn't like it, he should have conducted himself in a more professinal manner. KW owes Ozzie no apologies. Ozzie's job is to put the best team on the field everyday. If he didn't do that because he had an issue with KW, then he should be gone, 2005 championship or not.

Ozzie will be back next year. I'll bet on that.

No GM and field manager ever get along 100% of the time, and I'm sure KW and OG have had some differences. But this is a business. It's a big-money business. Ozzie Guillen has a very good (read: winning) record as a big-league manager.

Jeffrey Loria might be stupid enough to get rid of a winning manager, but Jerry and Kenny are not. I'll bet on that.

Jerko
09-21-2006, 01:02 PM
What exactly was their starting 9? I think the opening week was the last time I saw it regularly.

My definition of the starting 8 (FWIW) is the opening day lineup (barring injuries). Every team starts its best 9 on opening day, and IMO, so did we this year. We faced a lefty and Pods, Thome, and AJ all started and they won. Granted CC got hurt, but in the first 20 games THAT lineup started together, they were 17-3. Too bad it was July by then and I still think that lineup was used less than 40 times this year.

samram
09-21-2006, 01:02 PM
Ozzie will be back next year. I'll bet on that.

No GM and field manager ever get along 100% of the time, and I'm sure KW and OG have had some differences. But this is a business. It's a big-money business. Ozzie Guillen has a very good (read: winning) record as a big-league manager.

Jeffrey Loria might be stupid enough to get rid of a winning manager, but Jerry and Kenny are not. I'll bet on that.

I'm saying that if Ozzie allowed personal problems with KW to influence the lineup in a detrimental fashion, that's inexcusable. Obviously, I don't expect them to always get along perfectly, nor would I expect they always agree on who should be in the lineup, etc.

Frankly Missing
09-21-2006, 01:04 PM
First, I love Ozzie, I have been his biggest fan since he came to the Sox as a rookie, I was absolutely overjoyed when he was named manager, and he delivered everything I could ever have dreamed of in 2005. For that he will always have my respect.

That said, I think (have a feeling, suspect) that he wants out and will not be back in 2007. I think he was deeply offended by the public dressing-down he got from KW, which coincided with the turning point in the Sox season. He has not gone out of his way, shall we say, to make sure that Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez didn't beat the Sox, thus embarassing KW, and after sticking with Anderson in the first half when he struggled, has basically trashed him in the second half when he played well. All of this does look like a feud with KW that has affected the team. Ozzie should never have sacrificed the team's interests for revenge (IF that is what happened), but it was KW who did the most damage (which did happen), in my humble opinion. KW demonstrated that he is loyal to the organization, not to his manager, and loyal to the point where he was willing to humiliate his manager publicly. How would you react if you were Ozzie? I heard no apology from KW.

.

I disagree there is a feud between Ozzie and KW.

I base this on the Sunday SEPT 3 interveiw with KW on The Score. The broadcaster asked KW why Ozzie kept trotting Cotts to the mound and putting Rob in CF.

KW said he had asked Ozzie these very same questions! The bottom line was, Ozzie gave him reasons and KW wanted to respect Ozzies role as manager of the team.

I think at the time, KW NEVER dreamed we would lose our WC lead. I bet in hindsight, he wishes he would have made a few demands on Ozzie concerning these moves that cost us games.

I am of the camp that Ozzies stubborness cost us plenty this season.

And I bet KW is kicking himself for giving Ozzie enough rope to hang us with.

But plenty of other factors caused us to drop out of the race, it all adds up to a really disappointing gut wrenching end of our playoff chances.

AuroraSoxFan
09-21-2006, 01:07 PM
Ive met Brian Anderson on a couple of occasions, and both times, he definitely did not rub me the right way. In fact, I was with a poster here when I had an unfavorable encounter with him. Its not worth talking about it and wasnt that big a deal. As long as hes a SOX player, Im going to root for him and try not to let my personal feelings affect the way I feel about him on the field.

So he didn't want to be on your home made video? Big deal. Who would want another camera in their face when they're on TV all the time w/ millions watching their every move? Give the guy a break. do that to a pro athlete who is a REAL prick and he'll likely smash that camera over your head.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 01:13 PM
So he didn't want to be on your home made video? Big deal. Who would want another camera in their face when they're on TV all the time w/ millions watching their every move? Give the guy a break. do that to a pro athlete who is a REAL prick and he'll likely smash that camera over your head.



I didnt care. think you missed the point. I never talked about it before, however, point there was that he has the kind of personality that rubs people the wrong way, and maybe thats what Ozz has a problem with in the clubhouse.

wmc
09-21-2006, 01:15 PM
That said, I think (have a feeling, suspect) that he wants out and will not be back in 2007. I think he was deeply offended by the public dressing-down he got from KW, which coincided with the turning point in the Sox season. He has not gone out of his way, shall we say, to make sure that Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez didn't beat the Sox, thus embarassing KW, and after sticking with Anderson in the first half when he struggled, has basically trashed him in the second half when he played well. All of this does look like a feud with KW that has affected the team. Ozzie should never have sacrificed the team's interests for revenge (IF that is what happened), but it was KW who did the most damage (which did happen), in my humble opinion. KW demonstrated that he is loyal to the organization, not to his manager, and loyal to the point where he was willing to humiliate his manager publicly. How would you react if you were Ozzie? I heard no apology from KW.

.
I agree with many of you regarding some of the illogical things that seem to be happening. While Mack should not be in the OF at all, it is very puzzling that he is out there in the 2nd half of this season. Anderson's hitting has improved to the point that he is not a severe liability. His defensive skills were sorely needed in the 2nd half, coinciding with the decline of our pitching. Having Anderson on the bench is not putting the best team on the field to win.

So is there something up between KW and Ozzie? We'll soon find out. It's not surprising to me that KW is loyal to the organization -- that's the way it is in the corporate world. Last year I thought Ozzie would be around a long time. After this year, I would not be surprised if he is gone.

maurice
09-21-2006, 01:33 PM
This is just the latest proof that Ozzie is either a liar or an idiot. IMO, the bulk of the evidence suggests that he's not a liar. (He frequently gets criticized for being too truthful, instead of ****.) He just believes a lot of really stupid ****.
:(:

Paulwny
09-21-2006, 01:38 PM
This is just the latest proof that Ozzie is either a liar or an idiot. IMO, the bulk of the evidence suggests that he's not a liar. (He frequently gets criticized for being too truthful, instead of ****.) He just believes a lot of really stupid ****.
:(:

Lack of small ball may not have been one of the problems rather, lack of smart ball.

SOXandILLINI
09-21-2006, 01:50 PM
This is just the latest proof that Ozzie is either a liar or an idiot. IMO, the bulk of the evidence suggests that he's not a liar. (He frequently gets criticized for being too truthful, instead of ****.) He just believes a lot of really stupid ****.
:(:
try both.

Juice16
09-21-2006, 01:52 PM
What bothers me is the White Sox will not be in the playoffs.

bludupree
09-21-2006, 02:07 PM
Seriously, relax it was a joke, and it wasn't aimed at anyone sans BA and Ozzies obvious distaste for the kid. Secondly if i can't say the word nazi, then i would prefer people that constantly quote Animal House on WSI get their historical facts straight and quit laughing at the expense of American lives lost at pearl harbor.


And they should also make sure they never watch the movie field of dreams. I believe they say nazi in there.

jdm2662
09-21-2006, 02:24 PM
This is just another example of Ozzie talking out of his ass and hiding his displeasure of Brian Anderson. Of course, we don't know what is really going on, but there is certainly a personal problem, which never should get into the way of business. Just fitting to the end of this season...

jdm2662
09-21-2006, 02:30 PM
I didnt care. think you missed the point. I never talked about it before, however, point there was that he has the kind of personality that rubs people the wrong way, and maybe thats what Ozz has a problem with in the clubhouse.

Here's an idea, when you see an athlete or anyone else talking to his family in public, LEAVE HIM ALONE. He doesn't owe you the time of day. If some stranger came up to me with a camera and wanted me to smile, chances are, I might ignore him, too.

spiffie
09-21-2006, 02:35 PM
Here's an idea, when you see an athlete or anyone else talking to his family in public, LEAVE HIM ALONE. He doesn't owe you the time of day. If some stranger came up to me with a camera and wanted me to smile, chances are, I might ignore him, too.
To be fair I believe the incident in question happened at Soxfest. Though I might be mistaken.

goon
09-21-2006, 02:45 PM
To be fair I believe the incident in question happened at Soxfest. Though I might be mistaken.

i don't know any of you people outside of this forum. but if read it right, it wasn't just a camera, but a video camera. if i'm brian anderson and someone comes up to me with a camera and wants me to take a polaroid with their kid, fine. if some dude (yeah, dude, ages 16-45) walks up to me with a video camera in my face, i'd probably ignore him, or tell him to **** off.

i don't know any sox players, but am willing to bet that most of the guys on this roster are pretty decent people.

post script: i can't believe i commented on this story. i am so lame.

caulfield12
09-21-2006, 03:12 PM
Yesterday I listed BA's career [including U of Arizona] stats. Projected over 145-160 games, he's averaged .300 25 HR and 90 RBI He's not a lead-off hitter. He's a future #3 hitter who is exceptional with the glove. I just can't see KW get rid of BA in light of his trading Reed and Rowand in the past few years. KW made an organizational decision that BA was the future. I think Guillen is forcing a confrontation. There is - without question - more here than we know. It will be interesting to see who wins KW or Guillen.

I hope not to be reading in SI next July about how Boston's Brian Anderson is the biggest surprise of the year and the toast of the town. :angry:

Don't forget Chris Young and Anthony Webster as well.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 03:43 PM
Here's an idea, when you see an athlete or anyone else talking to his family in public, LEAVE HIM ALONE. He doesn't owe you the time of day. If some stranger came up to me with a camera and wanted me to smile, chances are, I might ignore him, too.


Heres a better Idea. If you know what the situation actually was, you'd be better suited to comment on it.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 03:45 PM
i don't know any of you people outside of this forum. but if read it right, it wasn't just a camera, but a video camera. if i'm brian anderson and someone comes up to me with a camera and wants me to take a polaroid with their kid, fine. if some dude (yeah, dude, ages 16-45) walks up to me with a video camera in my face, i'd probably ignore him, or tell him to **** off.

i don't know any sox players, but am willing to bet that most of the guys on this roster are pretty decent people.

post script: i can't believe i commented on this story. i am so lame.


***??? SoxFest? Talking to his family? Some dude walking up to him?

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 03:47 PM
To be fair I believe the incident in question happened at Soxfest. Though I might be mistaken.


This "incident" didnt happen at SoxFest, and I never commented on it, and plainly said I never talked about it before because I just shrugged it off. JDM apparently has spoken with Mr. Anderson and is running with this for some reason .....

itsnotrequired
09-21-2006, 03:50 PM
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!

:rolleyes:

DickAllen72
09-21-2006, 03:50 PM
In today's Daily Herald, Guillen is quoted as saying he started Sweeney over Anderson because "Brian's had trouble in the past against Bonderman." The writer went on to point out that Anderson had never faced Bonderman previously unless he faced him in the minors - which he didn't. Why does this bother me? Guillen's making up excuses to keep Anderson out of the lineup. Now it seems personal. He could have said "just going with the percentages" or "I manage with my gut - want to see what Sweeney can do."

Bothers me. You?

Ozzie being Ozzie. He often doesn't know what he's talking about.

His handling of the outfield this year was one of the team's downfalls.

kobo
09-21-2006, 03:53 PM
This "incident" didnt happen at SoxFest, and I never commented on it, and plainly said I never talked about it before because I just shrugged it off. JDM apparently has spoken with Mr. Anderson and is running with this for some reason .....
Well, now that you have brought this 'incident' to the attention of everyone on this site, why don't you explain what happened so that other people don't have to make wild and crazy assumptions of what you are talking about?

DickAllen72
09-21-2006, 03:54 PM
I think KW is pretty angered the way Ozzie has handled the rookies and vets and i honestly wouldn't mind seeing someone else at the helm next year. Looking forward to an intresting offseason. Go Sox!
Let the Razor Shines era begin! :smile:

southside rocks
09-21-2006, 03:56 PM
I'm saying that if Ozzie allowed personal problems with KW to influence the lineup in a detrimental fashion, that's inexcusable. Obviously, I don't expect them to always get along perfectly, nor would I expect they always agree on who should be in the lineup, etc.

I agree. Didn't mean for my post to sound like a contradiction of yours.

southside rocks
09-21-2006, 03:58 PM
Well, now that you have brought this 'incident' to the attention of everyone on this site, why don't you explain what happened so that other people don't have to make wild and crazy assumptions of what you are talking about?

Well, I think it's enough to know that some sort of "incident" occurred. It's obviously Anderson's bad. Because anyone who can't get along with Hangar is a dysfunctional and maladjusted human being!

Soxworldchamps
09-21-2006, 03:59 PM
Just out of curiosity, where exactly was BA HBP the other day? Leg? And what exactly happened, I wasn't watching...

DickAllen72
09-21-2006, 04:01 PM
Not the original post, but the first one I found

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1352173&postcount=122

Wow. I just read that post and this is the first time I've heard that story. If it is true, **** Ozzie Jr. and the horse he rode in on! :mad:

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 04:06 PM
Well, now that you have brought this 'incident' to the attention of everyone on this site, why don't you explain what happened so that other people don't have to make wild and crazy assumptions of what you are talking about?


heh heh, Im going to have to now. I dont want to, because I dont want to needlessly make BA look like a jerk, but whatever. We were in Anaheim, and the SOX were taking batting practice. We got inside early, nice cool evening, and we were standing in the first row just beyond the SOX dugout. I had my video camera just panning the field, especially the rockpile in cf. Was cool, because Thome actually ran by, and tossed me a couple of baseballs. :cool: Anyway, so im chatting with a couple other wsi'ers, enjoying the evening, when the SOX stopped practicing and went into the clubhouse. A lot of the SOX fans by the dugout started cheering and saying GOSOX and things of that nature. They waved to all the fans behind the dugout (mind you, im to the right of the dugout a section over)
Anderson and someone else decided to walk right to my section, and look up at the crowd. This seemed to be an unofficial signal that he was willing to sign autographs when suddenly our section is swarmed with SOX fans. It got totally crowded now where I was, and some Angel fans in the area seemed annoyed now by the crush of SOX fans, whatever, stuff happens. I decide to keep filming the field, and with Anderson moving towards me signing his autographs, I ask him to smile and say hello to the folks back home in Chicago. Mind you, im still not close to him still standing where I was originally. He smirks and says "what for?". Whoever the other player was, kind of looked up really quick, same reaction as me. I got mad, mostly because now I have to edit that out of what I filmed. I remember telling him he should appreciate being a White Sox, and he looked at me and said "I do" and I could tell by his look and he sounded very apologetic, and I could tell that was that, so I let it go. I remember telling a couple people here I was just going to let it go, but why would he be goofy like that? Anyway, before this is a bash BA post, needs to be acknowledged that he apologized. sort of. I still have it on tape though, heh heh

kevingrt
09-21-2006, 04:09 PM
heh heh, Im going to have to now. I dont want to, because I dont want to needlessly make BA look like a jerk, but whatever. We were in Anaheim, and the SOX were taking batting practice. We got inside early, nice cool evening, and we were standing in the first row just beyond the SOX dugout. I had my video camera just panning the field, especially the rockpile in cf. Was cool, because Thome actually ran by, and tossed me a couple of baseballs. :cool: Anyway, so im chatting with a couple other wsi'ers, enjoying the evening, when the SOX stopped practicing and went into the clubhouse. A lot of the SOX fans by the dugout started cheering and saying GOSOX and things of that nature. They waved to all the fans behind the dugout (mind you, im to the right of the dugout a section over)
Anderson and someone else decided to walk right to my section, and look up at the crowd. This seemed to be an unofficial signal that he was willing to sign autographs when suddenly our section is swarmed with SOX fans. It got totally crowded now where I was, and some Angel fans in the area seemed annoyed now by the crush of SOX fans, whatever, stuff happens. I decide to keep filming the field, and with Anderson moving towards me signing his autographs, I ask him to smile and say hello to the folks back home in Chicago. Mind you, im still not close to him still standing where I was originally. He smirks and says "what for?". Whoever the other player was, kind of looked up really quick, same reaction as me. I got mad, mostly because now I have to edit that out of what I filmed. I remember telling him he should appreciate being a White Sox, and he looked at me and said "I do" and I could tell by his look and he sounded very apologetic, and I could tell that was that, so I let it go. I remember telling a couple people here I was just going to let it go, but why would he be goofy like that? Anyway, before this is a bash BA post, needs to be acknowledged that he apologized. sort of. I still have it on tape though, heh heh

Weird story, many people will read into it too far, but who knows.

spiffie
09-21-2006, 04:14 PM
This "incident" didnt happen at SoxFest, and I never commented on it, and plainly said I never talked about it before because I just shrugged it off. JDM apparently has spoken with Mr. Anderson and is running with this for some reason .....
Ah. I was thinking of something else. Damn senility taking its toll on me.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 04:15 PM
Weird story, many people will read into it too far, but who knows.


tell me about it. Think it was one of those moments where he forgets where/who he is. Thats why I never brought it up as a separate "guess what happened" thread before. I showed my nephew that, and he laughed at him

SluggersAway
09-21-2006, 04:19 PM
It doesn't really sound like a total indictment of Brian.

Maybe he doesn't like being told what to do, maybe he really wanted to know what it was for. Documentary, school project, ****s 'n' giggles etc. Maybe he was confused by you saying "say hi to the folks back in Chicago" since you both were in la and he didn't understand how you were going to get it back to town.

I dunno, but the Ozzie jr. story is much more interesting, if true.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 04:20 PM
Weird story, many people will read into it too far, but who knows.


This will be a Tribune headline sometime soon.

Thug Anderson punches fan
Innappropriate pre-game actions puts him on bench
Curses fans in front of dozens of children

SouthSide_HitMen
09-21-2006, 04:22 PM
People were not happy with Rob in center in about late May beginning of June. That has been what everyone has been bitching about for the whole season.

Try April 4th (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1098145&postcount=88), Mackowiak's first start in CF. :cool:

kobo
09-21-2006, 04:22 PM
heh heh, Im going to have to now. I dont want to, because I dont want to needlessly make BA look like a jerk, but whatever. We were in Anaheim, and the SOX were taking batting practice. We got inside early, nice cool evening, and we were standing in the first row just beyond the SOX dugout. I had my video camera just panning the field, especially the rockpile in cf. Was cool, because Thome actually ran by, and tossed me a couple of baseballs. :cool: Anyway, so im chatting with a couple other wsi'ers, enjoying the evening, when the SOX stopped practicing and went into the clubhouse. A lot of the SOX fans by the dugout started cheering and saying GOSOX and things of that nature. They waved to all the fans behind the dugout (mind you, im to the right of the dugout a section over)
Anderson and someone else decided to walk right to my section, and look up at the crowd. This seemed to be an unofficial signal that he was willing to sign autographs when suddenly our section is swarmed with SOX fans. It got totally crowded now where I was, and some Angel fans in the area seemed annoyed now by the crush of SOX fans, whatever, stuff happens. I decide to keep filming the field, and with Anderson moving towards me signing his autographs, I ask him to smile and say hello to the folks back home in Chicago. Mind you, im still not close to him still standing where I was originally. He smirks and says "what for?". Whoever the other player was, kind of looked up really quick, same reaction as me. I got mad, mostly because now I have to edit that out of what I filmed. I remember telling him he should appreciate being a White Sox, and he looked at me and said "I do" and I could tell by his look and he sounded very apologetic, and I could tell that was that, so I let it go. I remember telling a couple people here I was just going to let it go, but why would he be goofy like that? Anyway, before this is a bash BA post, needs to be acknowledged that he apologized. sort of. I still have it on tape though, heh heh
Odd, but he did give somewhat of an apology. I hope people don't read too much into it.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 04:26 PM
It doesn't really sound like a total indictment of Brian.

Maybe he doesn't like being told what to do, maybe he really wanted to know what it was for. Documentary, school project, ****s 'n' giggles etc. Maybe he was confused by you saying "say hi to the folks back in Chicago" since you both were in la and he didn't understand how you were going to get it back to town.

I dunno, but the Ozzie jr. story is much more interesting, if true.



Yeah, the way he was immediately apologetic, made me think he realized he was being a jerk needlessly. I took the "apology" and that was fine enough for me. I brought it up originally, because I can see how that part of his personality might rub people the wrong way, especially his boss Ozzie. We'll never know why hes in the doghouse currently, but its cost us a few games I know that.

The Ozzie Jr story wasnt much to tell. He sipped drinks, and had as many baseball stories to tell as any major-leaguer :D:

goon
09-21-2006, 04:28 PM
heh heh, Im going to have to now. I dont want to, because I dont want to needlessly make BA look like a jerk, but whatever. We were in Anaheim, and the SOX were taking batting practice. We got inside early, nice cool evening, and we were standing in the first row just beyond the SOX dugout. I had my video camera just panning the field, especially the rockpile in cf. Was cool, because Thome actually ran by, and tossed me a couple of baseballs. :cool: Anyway, so im chatting with a couple other wsi'ers, enjoying the evening, when the SOX stopped practicing and went into the clubhouse. A lot of the SOX fans by the dugout started cheering and saying GOSOX and things of that nature. They waved to all the fans behind the dugout (mind you, im to the right of the dugout a section over)
Anderson and someone else decided to walk right to my section, and look up at the crowd. This seemed to be an unofficial signal that he was willing to sign autographs when suddenly our section is swarmed with SOX fans. It got totally crowded now where I was, and some Angel fans in the area seemed annoyed now by the crush of SOX fans, whatever, stuff happens. I decide to keep filming the field, and with Anderson moving towards me signing his autographs, I ask him to smile and say hello to the folks back home in Chicago. Mind you, im still not close to him still standing where I was originally. He smirks and says "what for?". Whoever the other player was, kind of looked up really quick, same reaction as me. I got mad, mostly because now I have to edit that out of what I filmed. I remember telling him he should appreciate being a White Sox, and he looked at me and said "I do" and I could tell by his look and he sounded very apologetic, and I could tell that was that, so I let it go. I remember telling a couple people here I was just going to let it go, but why would he be goofy like that? Anyway, before this is a bash BA post, needs to be acknowledged that he apologized. sort of. I still have it on tape though, heh heh



yeah, as i posted before, some guy with a video camera filming me doing ordinary things would come off as weird. put up all the ***'s you want, that would be a little strange.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 04:32 PM
yeah, as i posted before, some guy with a video camera filming me doing ordinary things would come off as weird. put up all the ***'s you want, that would be a little strange.


hes seen video cameras at ballgames before, im sure. I just thought his immediate response was needlessly abrasive. But oh well, he apologized and that was that.

Soxworldchamps
09-21-2006, 04:43 PM
Just out of curiosity, where exactly was BA HBP the other day? Leg? And what exactly happened, I wasn't watching...



?



Sorry, I really want to know :smile:

goon
09-21-2006, 04:44 PM
hes seen video cameras at ballgames before, im sure. I just thought his immediate response was needlessly abrasive. But oh well, he apologized and that was that.

yeah, i could see how an incident with a player might give you a bad impression of him. however, even if he does sort of have that cocky attitude, so does freddy and he had a pretty crappy season up until his last 3 starts. it's okay for freddy to bad mouth his teammates for not coming up with plays or to complain lack of run support just because he's apart of ozzie's family? seems unfair. if ozzie had a problem he should have talked to brian and kenny about it, instead of holding a grudge. in my opinion and i think a lot of people's on this board, BA was the best choice for CF and in the second half of the season he started hitting the ball well. there was no physical reason he should have been on the bench so much.

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 04:45 PM
?



Sorry, I really want to know :smile:


actually hit him below the knee, on the soft part of the calf. Looked very painful, and he grimaced a few times ......

goon
09-21-2006, 04:46 PM
?



Sorry, I really want to know :smile:

shin.

Soxworldchamps
09-21-2006, 04:47 PM
actually hit him below the knee, on the soft part of the calf. Looked very painful, and he grimaced a few times ......


Thanks :D:

Hangar18
09-21-2006, 04:48 PM
Try April 4th (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1098145&postcount=88), Mackowiak's first start in CF. :cool:


His very next start, I remember thinking, as a ball sailed past him into the gap, that he and Pods cant be playing in the same game

I_Liked_Manuel
09-21-2006, 04:48 PM
heh heh, Im going to have to now. I dont want to, because I dont want to needlessly make BA look like a jerk, but whatever. We were in Anaheim, and the SOX were taking batting practice. We got inside early, nice cool evening, and we were standing in the first row just beyond the SOX dugout. I had my video camera just panning the field, especially the rockpile in cf. Was cool, because Thome actually ran by, and tossed me a couple of baseballs. :cool: Anyway, so im chatting with a couple other wsi'ers, enjoying the evening, when the SOX stopped practicing and went into the clubhouse. A lot of the SOX fans by the dugout started cheering and saying GOSOX and things of that nature. They waved to all the fans behind the dugout (mind you, im to the right of the dugout a section over)
Anderson and someone else decided to walk right to my section, and look up at the crowd. This seemed to be an unofficial signal that he was willing to sign autographs when suddenly our section is swarmed with SOX fans. It got totally crowded now where I was, and some Angel fans in the area seemed annoyed now by the crush of SOX fans, whatever, stuff happens. I decide to keep filming the field, and with Anderson moving towards me signing his autographs, I ask him to smile and say hello to the folks back home in Chicago. Mind you, im still not close to him still standing where I was originally. He smirks and says "what for?". Whoever the other player was, kind of looked up really quick, same reaction as me. I got mad, mostly because now I have to edit that out of what I filmed. I remember telling him he should appreciate being a White Sox, and he looked at me and said "I do" and I could tell by his look and he sounded very apologetic, and I could tell that was that, so I let it go. I remember telling a couple people here I was just going to let it go, but why would he be goofy like that? Anyway, before this is a bash BA post, needs to be acknowledged that he apologized. sort of. I still have it on tape though, heh heh

did it ever dawn on you that he might not have seen your camera, as most adults don't typically videotape a 23 year old signing autographs?

CLR01
09-21-2006, 05:00 PM
Everyone is overreacting, again. As others have said, and Ozzie just proved, Ozzie just likes to play the numbers. No it doesn't really matter that he doesn't know what the numbers are because I'm sure a lot of people here didn't know that Anderson had never faced Bonderman until they looked it up either. Ozzie is a busy man and we can't expect him to know everything. Besides I'm sure if Anderson had faced bonderman before his at bats wold have been even worse than the guy with 2 weeks of major league experience, so really Ozzie is right.


Ozzie also wants good at bats and he likes to keep his players fresh which explains why Mackowiak was starting in center the second game of the year after Anderson went 2-3 with a double, a walk, stolen base and 2 runs scored in the season opener.


We need to get Ozzie a magic toothpick and a six year old to sit on his lap at press conferences.

starboy0
09-21-2006, 05:03 PM
I love to watch how Brian Anderson plays center field. He can really get to the ball and has a great arm. His batting has improved.

Until I read this thread I thought I was the only one who thought Ozzie has something personal against him.

I really think Brian's absence from center cost us a few games.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-21-2006, 05:26 PM
Everyone is overreacting, again. As others have said, and Ozzie just proved, Ozzie just likes to play the numbers. No it doesn't really matter that he doesn't know what the numbers are because I'm sure a lot of people here didn't know that Anderson had never faced Bonderman until they looked it up either. Ozzie is a busy man and we can't expect him to know everything. Besides I'm sure if Anderson had faced bonderman before his at bats wold have been even worse than the guy with 2 weeks of major league experience, so really Ozzie is right.


Ozzie also wants good at bats and he likes to keep his players fresh which explains why Mackowiak was starting in center the second game of the year after Anderson went 2-3 with a double, a walk, stolen base and 2 runs scored in the season opener.


We need to get Ozzie a magic toothpick and a six year old to sit on his lap at press conferences.

Or Kenny needs to confiscate the dice. :cool:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3999/sdicenf4.png
Copyright TDG / SSHM all rights reserved.

southside rocks
09-21-2006, 05:26 PM
did it ever dawn on you that he might not have seen your camera, as most adults don't typically videotape a 23 year old signing autographs?

Yeah, it's not like BA cursed him out or anything -- I think he was just caught off, and maybe Hangar interrupted something else Anderson was saying or doing.

It's making WAY too much out of that to say that Anderson's a jerk or has an attitude.

Besides, we don't know that Ozzie ever tried to videotape Brian and got snapped at, so this doesn't at all explain what's going on with them!

SoxFanPrope
09-21-2006, 05:26 PM
hes seen video cameras at ballgames before, im sure. I just thought his immediate response was needlessly abrasive. But oh well, he apologized and that was that.
Or maybe he was creeped out by some man in a crowd pointing a camera at him that was not part of the television broadcast. :dunno: Just me though.

SluggersAway
09-21-2006, 05:34 PM
The Ozzie Jr story wasnt much to tell.

Sorry I should've been more clear. I meant this one which was referred to earlier in the thread:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1352173&postcount=122 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1352173&postcount=122)

maurice
09-21-2006, 05:45 PM
:?:
I don't see how Henry's story reflects negatively on Anderson. The fact that he came over and signed autographs in the first place is a pretty good indication that he appreciates Sox fans. He's like the anti-Willie Harris. If the story means anything, it shows that the players who refused to sign are higher on the jerk-o-meter.

FWIW, Anderson signs tons of autographs in Tucson almost every day during Spring Training, while most of the vets stretch in RF and ignore the pleading kids. He's from Tucson, so he spends a lot of the pre-game time scanning the crowd and joking with fans. From my experience, he's extremely nice to everybody.

Soxworldchamps
09-21-2006, 05:47 PM
I think the real question is if he's going to be back next year.

Don't you think that if Ozzie hates him as much as he apparently does, winter ball or not, he's not coming back? I'm not saying this is what I hope. I think that Brian Anderson is one of the best center fielders we'll ever have- defensively, at least. I think that Ozzie isn't giving him a chance for what's probably a stupid reason. I think KW sees the potential in him and will keep him, even if Ozzie does everything he can to make him go.

QCIASOXFAN
09-21-2006, 06:21 PM
I am pretty sure Ozzie does not like BA at all and would not suprise me if hes gone next year because of this.

SOXandILLINI
09-21-2006, 06:54 PM
Wow. I just read that post and this is the first time I've heard that story. If it is true, **** Ozzie Jr. and the horse he rode in on! :mad:
do you think the apple falls far from the tree? this thread has me torn, in a way. the fact that it's happening means the sox are all but done this year, and no matter what i think of our manager, i wanna win, i am a season ticket holder, and 5k and my love for the white sox supercedes any feelings i have for #13. having said that, i'm really glad that finally this guy is finally being seen for what he is, which is a subpar manager, and a questionable human being. he will continue to say things that embarrass this organization and it's fanbase, but hopefully not for long.


as many of you know, my distaste for this man and the way he manages is nothing new, and i am very sorry it takes the best team in baseball, on paper, to underperform, to bring out this kind of vitriale. i knew that it was gonna take this team failing to have this happen. part of me was hoping that he would say something so stupid as to finally force kw's hand, and perhaps he will, but unfortunately the 1st part of the equation has already happened and we will be home in october... very very sad. by the way , i don't know how any of you can be surprised by what jr said, his dad said almost exactly the same thing back in the early 80's.... i believe the quote attributed at the time was..." #$%& the fans" big shock the kid feels the same way about sox fans, unless they happen to be unmale.

SluggersAway
09-21-2006, 07:25 PM
The other recent Ozzie comment that supports your position is Ozzie, when having to clarify his recent statement, saying that the only thing that makes him jealous of Mags is his paycheck.

Class act. Not about the money at all. It is all about the team. Not mi manera.

michned
09-21-2006, 07:29 PM
Yeah, it's not like BA cursed him out or anything -- I think he was just caught off, and maybe Hangar interrupted something else Anderson was saying or doing.

It's making WAY too much out of that to say that Anderson's a jerk or has an attitude.


Anderson has a goofy personality anyway. His response seems totally in line with his personality. In Spring Training, he would finish up autographing by saying he had to go "pretend" to stretch. At the U of A he got into trouble for warming up in centerfield - with a football. And after a nice catch at Wrigley, didn't he pretend like he was juicing himself in the rump?

SluggersAway
09-21-2006, 07:54 PM
Ozzie is jealous of Mags' paycheck and Anderson's luck with the ladies.

SOXandILLINI
09-21-2006, 08:05 PM
Ozzie is jealous of Mags' paycheck and Anderson's luck with the ladies.

i don't know what you guys are alluding to about the ladies.. ozzie is a married man, and his family is the most important thing to him.:rolleyes:

SluggersAway
09-21-2006, 08:15 PM
Envy:

- A feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions.

- Hate of those who have what you cannot have.

A. Cavatica
09-21-2006, 08:38 PM
Maybe Ozzie just hates glove wizards who can't hit. ("I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member.")

SluggersAway
09-21-2006, 08:48 PM
Problem: He has been hitting .277 since the all-star break.

kitekrazy
09-21-2006, 08:48 PM
Maybe Ozzie just hates glove wizards who can't hit. ("I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member.")

I don't know. I guess if he kept BA out there too much and his average starts to dip under 200, you can crush his confidence.

Grzegorz
09-21-2006, 08:49 PM
In today's Daily Herald, Guillen is quoted as saying he started Sweeney over Anderson because "Brian's had trouble in the past against Bonderman." The writer went on to point out that Anderson had never faced Bonderman previously unless he faced him in the minors - which he didn't. Why does this bother me? Guillen's making up excuses to keep Anderson out of the lineup. Now it seems personal. He could have said "just going with the percentages" or "I manage with my gut - want to see what Sweeney can do."

Bothers me. You?

Sure it does; it's Ozzie's reality...

I remember hearing AJ on the Mike North Show being asked about a supposed conversation between he and Ozzie about AJ's confidence.

Unfortunately, AJ debunked the conversation by saying it never happened.

Ozzie loves to hear himself talk. Others will listen for a while and then just tune him out and go about their business.

Unfortunately, communication is the key to any relationship...

SluggersAway
09-21-2006, 08:50 PM
.313 in July.

.296 in August.

SOXandILLINI
09-21-2006, 08:56 PM
.313 in July.

.296 in August.
he obviously is heading in the wrong direction...:smile:.. right blizzard of oz?

champagne030
09-21-2006, 09:58 PM
Try April 4th (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1098145&postcount=88), Mackowiak's first start in CF. :cool:

Damn straight! I was concerned when I saw the Braves/Sox game in Atlanta and Mack had problems catching a routine fly....I said to my buddy that we do not have anyone to sub for BA.

HerzogVon
09-22-2006, 09:19 AM
Three pages of posts and no one's rhymed Ozzie with Nazi?

No, Ozzie rhymes with schnozzie, which pretty much limits the subject to Jimmy Durante jokes. ( So, when IS the last time you heard a Jimmy Durante joke? ) Nazi rhymes with "hotsie-totsie", as well as Marge Schott's dog Schotzie, who quite possibly may have been a Nazi. The tribunal is still out on that one.

Now, if only you oh-so-smart ~ and I say that with a mixture of admiration as well as a tinge of envy ~ people watched less baseball and more History Channel, you'd know these things. On the other hand, if I watched more baseball and less of "Hitler's Henchmen", I might have some idea of what I'm talking about. Sports is a tough study when you haven't left your house since 1995.

Well, last year was still fun...:smile:

Fritz Weaver,
Bletchley Park

Hangar18
09-22-2006, 09:35 AM
even if he does sort of have that cocky attitude, so does freddy and he had a pretty crappy season up until his last 3 starts. it's okay for freddy to bad mouth his teammates for not coming up with plays or to complain lack of run support just because he's apart of ozzie's family? seems unfair..


Thats interesting ...... I didnt think of this angle

Beautox
09-22-2006, 03:03 PM
Everyone is overreacting, again. As others have said, and Ozzie just proved, Ozzie just likes to play the numbers. No it doesn't really matter that he doesn't know what the numbers are because I'm sure a lot of people here didn't know that Anderson had never faced Bonderman until they looked it up either. Ozzie is a busy man and we can't expect him to know everything. Besides I'm sure if Anderson had faced bonderman before his at bats wold have been even worse than the guy with 2 weeks of major league experience, so really Ozzie is right.


Ozzie also wants good at bats and he likes to keep his players fresh which explains why Mackowiak was starting in center the second game of the year after Anderson went 2-3 with a double, a walk, stolen base and 2 runs scored in the season opener.


We need to get Ozzie a magic toothpick and a six year old to sit on his lap at press conferences.
Yes Ozzie knows all and should never be questioned :rolleyes:, Anderson has hit some of the toughest pitchers both LH and RH. Pitchers that are far superior to Bonderman like: Shilling, Rogers, Mussina, Zumaya, Ryan, Farnsworth, Robertson, Zito & Johnson. But Ozzie is psychic and knows Brian would've gone 0-4 with 4K against Bonderman.

Beautox
09-22-2006, 03:13 PM
Also from KWs own mouth from todays trib

"Question: Are the Sox a 90- to 100-victory team next year?
"Absolutely," Williams said. "We will not let this team become an aged team. That's why you saw us stick with Brian Anderson all year, and I think it paid off [for the future]."


Ozzie may hate Brian, but Brian is KWs guy and KW will pull rank. To sum it up; Brian is the future and piece one of a young and upcoming talented OF(Sweeney,Anderson,Fields). He isn't going anywhere and KW is going to constantly bring in young talent when its applicable like Fields/Sweeney in LF next year.

southwstchi4life
09-22-2006, 03:41 PM
yeah, i could see how an incident with a player might give you a bad impression of him. however, even if he does sort of have that cocky attitude, so does freddy and he had a pretty crappy season up until his last 3 starts. it's okay for freddy to bad mouth his teammates for not coming up with plays or to complain lack of run support just because he's apart of ozzie's family? seems unfair. if ozzie had a problem he should have talked to brian and kenny about it, instead of holding a grudge. in my opinion and i think a lot of people's on this board, BA was the best choice for CF and in the second half of the season he started hitting the ball well. there was no physical reason he should have been on the bench so much.

Well heres the difference between Freddy and BA being Cocky. BA is a ROOKIE. Freddy has won a world series, most wins from a venezuelan pitcher ever, and has been doing this for years in the big leagues. A big reason BA didnt play some of the times, which many alluded to is he did not hit. I think people forgot his batting average. That should have humbled him plenty. Especially trying to start on a team that just won a world series. Thats how I can can see Ozzie getting mad at BA.

southside rocks
09-22-2006, 03:46 PM
Well heres the difference between Freddy and BA being Cocky. BA is a ROOKIE. Freddy has won a world series, most wins from a venezuelan pitcher ever, and has been doing this for years in the big leagues. A big reason BA didnt play some of the times, which many alluded to is he did not hit. I think people forgot his batting average. That should have humbled him plenty. Especially trying to start on a team that just won a world series. Thats how I can can see Ozzie getting mad at BA.

Not only that, but Ozzie did comment on Freddy's ignorant remarks, and said that they were dumb and that Freddy should shut up and concentrate on his pitching.

CLR01
09-22-2006, 04:07 PM
Yes Ozzie knows all and should never be questioned :rolleyes:, Anderson has hit some of the toughest pitchers both LH and RH. Pitchers that are far superior to Bonderman like: Shilling, Rogers, Mussina, Zumaya, Ryan, Farnsworth, Robertson, Zito & Johnson. But Ozzie is psychic and knows Brian would've gone 0-4 with 4K against Bonderman.


You should really read the whole thread. :rolleyes:

goon
09-22-2006, 06:22 PM
Well heres the difference between Freddy and BA being Cocky. BA is a ROOKIE. Freddy has won a world series, most wins from a venezuelan pitcher ever, and has been doing this for years in the big leagues. A big reason BA didnt play some of the times, which many alluded to is he did not hit. I think people forgot his batting average. That should have humbled him plenty. Especially trying to start on a team that just won a world series. Thats how I can can see Ozzie getting mad at BA.

that excuse may have worked up until the All-Star Break, but he was hitting the ball nearly as good as anyone on the team in the second half. and that's awesome that freddy won a world series last year and the fact that he has the most wins as a venzuelan pitcher... that doesn't give him the right to show up for the season fat, out of shape and then to piss on his teammates in post-game interviews when it was him who sucked on the mound. i doubt brian thinks he's better than anyone on that roster, unlike freddy, he just has confidence in his abilities. unless brian did something really, REALLY bad in the clubhouse or something to effect the team, there is NO reason he shouldn't have been in starting in centerfield.

southwstchi4life
09-23-2006, 03:05 PM
that excuse may have worked up until the All-Star Break, but he was hitting the ball nearly as good as anyone on the team in the second half. and that's awesome that freddy won a world series last year and the fact that he has the most wins as a venzuelan pitcher... that doesn't give him the right to show up for the season fat, out of shape and then to piss on his teammates in post-game interviews when it was him who sucked on the mound. i doubt brian thinks he's better than anyone on that roster, unlike freddy, he just has confidence in his abilities. unless brian did something really, REALLY bad in the clubhouse or something to effect the team, there is NO reason he shouldn't have been in starting in centerfield.

Well when someone hits 230 and is a rookie, Which is BA batting Average, he sure as Hell doesnt deserve to walk around with a chip on his shoulder. If I looked right, who has the second most wins on the socks, It is Freddy G (15-9) and has the most innings pitched by a White Sox pitcher. And Yes, Freddy should have shut his mouth and did not have great season. But you know what, I am so sick of people defending a 230 hitter. He needs to do what hes told, not question playing winter league ball, and learn from people who have succeded in this league. Freddy had a more productive season than BA and is a veteran. How should BA be out there ALL the time( as people seem to want) when the sox havent been able to produce runs. Mack is shacky is center, but you know what, I think what Ozzie did is fine. Neither deserved to start, but switching them was his only option.