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Lip Man 1
09-20-2006, 02:13 PM
"We missed cutoff men, we didn't get bunts down, we did the things that cause you to lose as opposed to the other guy winning. We didn't play the same kind of baseball as we did last year. We didn't play Ozzie ball. We threw games away. Last year we didn't give games away. I don't know why, but it's something we have to focus on in the off-season." -- Jerry Reinsdorf to the Tribune's Melissa Issacson.

Ownership and Kenny knows what went wrong with the club. I trust they'll fix things this off season. Trying to sit back and wait for those 'game turning' eight run home runs is NO way to play baseball.

Lip

batmanZoSo
09-20-2006, 02:19 PM
It's as simple as pitching. You can talk about Ozzie ball and all those "little things" all day long, but at least 90% of the problem is the pitching, period. I hope they focus on that rather than try to recapture some intangible thing.

JB98
09-20-2006, 02:21 PM
"We missed cutoff men, we didn't get bunts down, we did the things that cause you to lose as opposed to the other guy winning. We didn't play the same kind of baseball as we did last year. We didn't play Ozzie ball. We threw games away. Last year we didn't give games away. I don't know why, but it's something we have to focus on in the off-season." -- Jerry Reinsdorf to the Tribune's Melissa Issacson.

Ownership and Kenny knows what went wrong with the club. I trust they'll fix things this off season. Trying to sit back and wait for those 'game turning' eight run home runs is NO way to play baseball.

Lip

A rare public comment from JR on the state of the team, but it's spot on. Lip, I share your confidence that management will address the issues. They aren't going to sit back allow the same bull**** to take place next season.

bluestar
09-20-2006, 02:41 PM
It's as simple as pitching. You can talk about Ozzie ball and all those "little things" all day long, but at least 90% of the problem is the pitching, period. I hope they focus on that rather than try to recapture some intangible thing.

I would even go so far as to say the poor pitching actually leads to the "intangibles." It all feeds off itself. The pitching doesn't perform, so the defense has more pressure on it and fails, and the offense has more pressure on it and fails, which puts more pressure on the pitching...

itsnotrequired
09-20-2006, 02:45 PM
I would even go so far as to say the poor pitching actually leads to the "intangibles." It all feeds off itself. The pitching doesn't perform, so the defense has more pressure on it and fails, and the offense has more pressure on it and fails, which puts more pressure on the pitching...

Yeah, but you could say that about any aspect of the game. Hitting is failing so the pitchers try to "step it up" and keep the team in the game and end up blowing it resulting in the hitters pressing to make up. Or the defense struggles so they try to make it up by swinging for the fences and blow it.

And so on...

bluestar
09-20-2006, 02:48 PM
Yeah, but you could say that about any aspect of the game. Hitting is failing so the pitchers try to "step it up" and keep the team in the game and end up blowing it resulting in the hitters pressing to make up. Or the defense struggles so they try to make it up by swinging for the fences and blow it.

And so on...

But the offense was okay for the most part the first half of the season. I think the pressure the poor pitching put on the offense led to the more recent offensive slump. Maybe it is fatigue, nagging injuries or whatever, but I think the fact that they were so reliant on scoring lots of runs earlier has produced the slumping offense we are seeing now.

But then, what do I know? I'm just guessing like everyone else.

Tekijawa
09-20-2006, 02:49 PM
If I remember correctly it took us about a month and a half to get a bunt down, and I think we've only got about 3 good ones down this year... Last year we were much better with the "small ball" stuff like that. I can remember a few games where a bunt would have made a HUGE difference in the outcome.

JB98
09-20-2006, 02:51 PM
It's as simple as pitching. You can talk about Ozzie ball and all those "little things" all day long, but at least 90% of the problem is the pitching, period. I hope they focus on that rather than try to recapture some intangible thing.

From a personnel perspective, the pitching is the main thing that needs to be addressed this offseason. But I also think the club's mental approach is broken. For some reason, the attention to detail and focus hasn't been there this year. That has to be addressed as well. It's just as important as fixing our weaknesses in the rotation and in the bullpen.

Flight #24
09-20-2006, 02:54 PM
It's as simple as pitching. You can talk about Ozzie ball and all those "little things" all day long, but at least 90% of the problem is the pitching, period. I hope they focus on that rather than try to recapture some intangible thing.

While I agree that the pitching was subpar, this team should still be neck & neck with the Tiggers & Twinkies rather than 5 back in the loss column. Offensive execution, anti-defensive lineups, etc are another reason why that's not the case.

I hope they try to fix all of those aspects. After rebounding to make the playoffs this year.

ajismyhero
09-20-2006, 03:05 PM
From a personnel perspective, the pitching is the main thing that needs to be addressed this offseason. But I also think the club's mental approach is broken. For some reason, the attention to detail and focus hasn't been there this year. That has to be addressed as well. It's just as important as fixing our weaknesses in the rotation and in the bullpen.

I think you're dead on - pitching was definitely unreliable to say the least, but there were a handful of games that were well-pitched (Javy vs. BoSox) where we failed to drive in runs or even get runners on base - which is all mental when you have one of the best offensive line-ups in the League.

Iwritecode
09-20-2006, 03:12 PM
It's as simple as pitching. You can talk about Ozzie ball and all those "little things" all day long, but at least 90% of the problem is the pitching, period. I hope they focus on that rather than try to recapture some intangible thing.

I agree that pitching was most of the problem this year but the bigger question is why was it soo bad? Half the pitching staff had the worst years of their career. They still don't know what's wrong with Buehrle.

caulfield12
09-20-2006, 03:42 PM
I agree that pitching was most of the problem this year but the bigger question is why was it soo bad? Half the pitching staff had the worst years of their career. They still don't know what's wrong with Buehrle.

I think it's a couple of things.

You have the pitching staff taking ungodly amounts of time out there on the mound to make pitches at times, especially Garcia, but Contreras and Vazquez (I'm thinking of that Yankees home game he survived somehow) are probably the worst culprits.

The defense is already on its heels, then you have that further exacerbated by the fact that Mack and Pods almost never get good jumps, the right reads and take incorrect routes.

One thing feeds off the other. Then you have some of the same culprits who don't just get the ball and throw it (we don't have to name them) who have incredibly SB success ratios against them.

I also thought pitching more quickly is one of the things Jose improved last year and in stretches this season...but it's hit and miss with him.

But those stolen bases (multiple in an inning), runs scoring without a hit due to walks (which turn into triples), 4-6 SB's in a game, they demoralized this team more in the 2nd half than the dramatic home runs hit against the bullpen late in games. It just leaks the air out of the balloon, seemingly.

AJ is not going to change much technique-wise, but we have to do a better job with holding runners...and yes, even Bobby Jenks, that means you, especially when you're throwing mid 90's instead of 97-100.

JohnTucker0814
09-20-2006, 04:14 PM
I think a contributing factor to the success this team did not see this year is spring training. Last year every player was in camp from day 1 and they worked their tails off to get ready for the season.

This year: Buehrle was out for a while, Garcia/Vazquez/Cintron all go to play in the WBC, Podsednik barely played, Dye was injured for a while, Crede was injured for a while...and on and on... they didn't have time to work together as a team and just didn't gel together!

cheezheadsoxfan
09-20-2006, 04:17 PM
I would even go so far as to say the poor pitching actually leads to the "intangibles." It all feeds off itself. The pitching doesn't perform, so the defense has more pressure on it and fails, and the offense has more pressure on it and fails, which puts more pressure on the pitching...

I have had the same thought but couldn't put it into words. Thanks.

stillz
09-20-2006, 04:31 PM
Maybe Crazy Carl's dinner parties and poker tournaments were the missing ingrediants.

When our 8-9-1 hitters don't get on, and the middle of the line-up is miserably slow, and our pitching is average for 2/3 of the year, it just doesn't translate to playoff contention.

fquaye149
09-20-2006, 04:40 PM
A rare public comment from JR on the state of the team, but it's spot on. Lip, I share your confidence that management will address the issues. They aren't going to sit back allow the same bull**** to take place next season.

who'dathunk we'd ever see the likes of this posted at WSI?!

Corlose 15
09-20-2006, 05:12 PM
"We missed cutoff men, we didn't get bunts down, we did the things that cause you to lose as opposed to the other guy winning. We didn't play the same kind of baseball as we did last year. We didn't play Ozzie ball. We threw games away. Last year we didn't give games away. I don't know why, but it's something we have to focus on in the off-season." -- Jerry Reinsdorf to the Tribune's Melissa Issacson.

Ownership and Kenny knows what went wrong with the club. I trust they'll fix things this off season. Trying to sit back and wait for those 'game turning' eight run home runs is NO way to play baseball.

Lip


Isn't it a refreshing change to have that kind of confidence in the organization. Under Schueler I'd be a lot more frustrated because I didn't have the confidence that he'd do what it takes to win. I expect the whole organization to be pissed if/when the Sox don't make the playoffs and they'll fine tweak this thing and come back focused knowing they let a golden opportunity slip away. Any team that wins the WS this year the Sox could've beaten.

It'll be kind of like that scene in one of the Rocky movies where Apollo is talking about how Rocky lost the "fire" Or whatever the hell he's talking about. But you get the point. :D:

batmanZoSo
09-20-2006, 05:26 PM
While I agree that the pitching was subpar, this team should still be neck & neck with the Tiggers & Twinkies rather than 5 back in the loss column. Offensive execution, anti-defensive lineups, etc are another reason why that's not the case.

I hope they try to fix all of those aspects. After rebounding to make the playoffs this year.

Why should we be neck and neck with them? Based on what? The fact that they're near the top of the game in pitching and we're mediocre?

Look at our lineup and look at their numbers. You simply can't fault them for what's happened. Of course they've failed to maintain consistency all the time, but that's what every major league lineup in history has done. The times where that's happened are only magnified because of the poor pitching. Konerko said it in the paper today, there's no difference in the clubhouse, the attitude's the same.

Absolutely, a few "problem" players need to go and I'm sure they will, but it's not a clubhouse torn apart by chaos, or a loss of mojo or team chemistry, it's a team that's in third place because of mediocre pitching. Hell, leave the rotation as is and insert a stellar bullpen and we're in first right there (as we've blown a dozen or so games when leading after the 6th).

SOXandILLINI
09-20-2006, 05:50 PM
Maybe Crazy Carl's dinner parties and poker tournaments were the missing ingrediants.

When our 8-9-1 hitters don't get on, and the middle of the line-up is miserably slow, and our pitching is average for 2/3 of the year, it just doesn't translate to playoff contention.


the middle of our lineup is incredibly slow... what about paulie? :bandance: ... have you ever in your life seen a guy hit more singles off the wall and down the line? or seen a guy not score from second on a hit, even with 2 outs, it's almost beyond belief.

JB98
09-20-2006, 07:29 PM
the middle of our lineup is incredibly slow... what about paulie? :bandance: ... have you ever in your life seen a guy hit more singles off the wall and down the line? or seen a guy not score from second on a hit, even with 2 outs, it's almost beyond belief.

Frank Thomas is the same way these days.

JB98
09-20-2006, 07:30 PM
who'dathunk we'd ever see the likes of this posted at WSI?!

October 26, 2005 changed the landscape forever, didn't it? :cool:

October26
09-20-2006, 09:27 PM
Yes it did - because we EXPECT to win now.:cool:

Lip Man 1
09-20-2006, 11:08 PM
October:

I've always expected to win, have for 46 seasons...the problem was that until last season ownership never did.

Lip