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A. Cavatica
09-20-2006, 12:10 AM
November 6, 2001 - Baseball owners voted 28-2 in favor of contraction, which would have eliminated the Twins and the Expos.

In 2002, after receiving a stay of execution, the Twins won the AL Central by 13.5 games over the Sox. They won again in 2003 and 2004, beating the Sox by 4 and 9 games. And, of course, they're about to go to the playoffs again.

Obviously, it could've made a big difference to the Sox' fortunes if the Twins had just vanished. But would it? The Yankees won 101 or more games each year from 2002 to 2004; the A's won 103 in 2002 and 96 the next year. The Red Sox fielded strong teams every year, and even the Angels won 99 games in 2002.

The Sox might have limped into the playoffs each of those years and done exactly what Minnesota did: lose.

This year is the first year that Minnesota's survival might have really cost us. The theory goes like this: If we get in to the playoffs, even as the wild card, our playoff-tested veterans will finally turn it on. (I don't actually believe they'd be able to turn it on, but at least our 2006 team would win it all if they played to their potential.)

In reality, the dispersal draft would've shaken up the standings, and there's no way to know if the Sox would've been better or worse for it. What if Santana had ended up with us, and we'd never needed Danny Wright (& others)? What if Hunter had ended up with us, and turned Rowand into a fourth outfielder? What if Ortiz had ended up with us, causing us to trade PK?

Come to think of it, what if Santana had ended up on the Indians? We might have missed the playoffs last year.

I'd love to read a good baseball writer's imaginings of how things might've played out if the Twins had been contracted.

chisoxmike
09-20-2006, 12:20 AM
Yeah, I thought about all that watching the Twins clinch on our field in 2004. You never know.

the gooch
09-20-2006, 10:33 AM
What if Santana had ended up with us, and we'd never needed Danny Wright (& others)? What if Hunter had ended up with us, and turned Rowand into a fourth outfielder? What if Ortiz had ended up with us, causing us to trade PK?
Santana was with the Giants organization at the time, and AJ was with the twins.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2006, 11:42 AM
Considering that franchise will have made the post season in four of the last five years with half the payroll, half the fans and the worst friggin' stadium in MLB, I'd be all for it.

Lip

jdm2662
09-20-2006, 11:47 AM
Santana was with the Giants organization at the time, and AJ was with the twins.

You are probably thinking of Liraino. Santana has been on the Twins since 2000...

the gooch
09-20-2006, 12:09 PM
yeah. sorry.

mrfourni
09-20-2006, 01:03 PM
If there was contraction would there have been re-alignment? Would the Sox and the AL Central in genreal been affected?

BNLSox
09-20-2006, 02:30 PM
You know why I love this thread - its all about the Twins ceasing to exist. That sounds like a very happy ending to me!

Hokiesox
09-20-2006, 02:38 PM
worst friggin' stadium in MLB
Lip

It's off topic, but I invite you to come to RFK stadium. I've never been to the baggie dome, but I can't imagine it being worse than RFK. But other than that, you're always right.

batmanZoSo
09-20-2006, 03:26 PM
You know why I love this thread - its all about the Twins ceasing to exist. That sounds like a very happy ending to me!

Sure, we'd be better off, but the Twins are good for the game. I've really come to respect them a great deal after this year. They just keep coming at us and usually outdo us. I never believed they'd make the playoffs until maybe a week ago, but they're probably going to take the division.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2006, 03:34 PM
Hokie:

At least RFK is outside.

Lip

Trav
09-20-2006, 05:48 PM
It's off topic, but I invite you to come to RFK stadium. I've never been to the baggie dome, but I can't imagine it being worse than RFK. But other than that, you're always right.


I have been to both, however I was pretty young when I lived up in MN. I had a great time at RFK but I didn't sit in the outfield. I heard that was the worst. I was in the last row of the upper deck behind plate and thought those were some of the best "bad" seats I have had.


As far as the thread topic, the Twins were really put in a bad spot when Bud started talking about contraction. They have been a contender almost every year despite that. I really think it hurt their chances of getting free agents to come there.

A. Cavatica
09-20-2006, 07:34 PM
Well, of course contraction would've been good for us as Sox fans: no chance for us to grow to hate Hunter, and A.J., and Koskie, and Guzman, and Jones, and Cuddyer, and Ford, and Punto, and Tyner, and Bartlett, and Radke, and...oh, screw it. After adopting A.J., I'm fairly well convinced we'd have just found someone else to hate.

Daver
09-20-2006, 07:57 PM
Had contraction happened, MLB would have lost it's anti trust excemption, therefore eliminating the organized minor league system as it exists now. Teams would be limited to the players on their forty man rosters only, and all minor league affiliations would cease to exist. The MLB draft would probably end after three rounds, as teams lost interest in choosing players not likely to make a forty man roster, and therefore more younger players would pursue sports other than baseball.

Team owners would be able to sue the league for the right to move their franchises, and the league would not have much of a recourse to fight it, see Davis, Al. You would end up with 8 teams in New York and KC, Oakland, etc. having no teams at all (pure speculation on my part as to likely teams).

Things would be a lot different.

Trav
09-20-2006, 09:49 PM
Daver, once again you provide me with a different view of things. Thanks. Good points.

A. Cavatica
09-20-2006, 10:16 PM
You would end up with 8 teams in New York and KC, Oakland, etc. having no teams at all (pure speculation on my part as to likely teams).

So...you're saying we could've gotten rid of the Twins and A's with one stroke? :D:

STRETCH!!!
09-23-2006, 01:28 PM
Had contraction happened, MLB would have lost it's anti trust excemption, therefore eliminating the organized minor league system as it exists now. Teams would be limited to the players on their forty man rosters only, and all minor league affiliations would cease to exist. The MLB draft would probably end after three rounds, as teams lost interest in choosing players not likely to make a forty man roster, and therefore more younger players would pursue sports other than baseball.

Team owners would be able to sue the league for the right to move their franchises, and the league would not have much of a recourse to fight it, see Davis, Al. You would end up with 8 teams in New York and KC, Oakland, etc. having no teams at all (pure speculation on my part as to likely teams).

Things would be a lot different.

Points well made.

It could also be argued that there are teams that may as well not be in existence because they have no chance to win. For example, Pittsburg. But, the Twins and As show that a smart organization can compete with a rich one, and the playoff system assures that you don't have to be the best team over the course of a season to win it all.

I also have a love/hate relationship with the Twins. I hate them because they are a pesky bunch of piranahs who contstantly cause me grief and distress. But, you have to give them credit. I'll be cheering for them in the playoffs (assuming we don't make it - I think that is a safe assumption at this stage).