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RKMeibalane
09-17-2006, 09:57 AM
Its bittersweet to look out there and see that black uniform I wore so proudly for 16 years, Thomas said. Its kind of weird for me. I know what we did the last couple of days made it a little tougher for them, but theyve still got a lot of ball to play and I know what kind of streaks they are capable of playing. Its not over for them. -- Frank Thomas on his former team

caulfield12
09-17-2006, 11:50 AM
Its bittersweet to look out there and see that black uniform I wore so proudly for 16 years, Thomas said. Its kind of weird for me. I know what we did the last couple of days made it a little tougher for them, but theyve still got a lot of ball to play and I know what kind of streaks they are capable of playing. Its not over for them. -- Frank Thomas on his former team

Did you really expect him to say "put a fork in them, they're done!" about his former team. Maybe Carl Everett would say that, but he doesn't care about burning bridges.

RKMeibalane
09-17-2006, 11:55 AM
Did you really expect him to say "put a fork in them, they're done!" about his former team. Maybe Carl Everett would say that, but he doesn't care about burning bridges.

Not at all.

My point in posting this was to show some of the Dark Clouds how ridiculous they've been lately. Frank may not be a member of the Sox anymore, but it's clear he has more faith in his former 'mates than some of the people on this board.

caulfield12
09-17-2006, 11:58 AM
Not at all.

My point in posting this was to show some of the Dark Clouds how ridiculous they've been lately. Frank may not be a member of the Sox anymore, but it's clear he has more faith in his former 'mates than some of the people on this board.


Yes, but not "counting them out" is clearly not the same thing as predicting they will go on to make a recovery in the final two weeks and get back into the playoffs.

A team that has been playing at the same or worse pace statistically (for 2 months now) as the KC Royals, the worst team in the AL, doesn't just turn it on for two weeks out of nowhere.

There are too many flaws with this team in its present condition. Some are health issues (Jenks, MacDougal, Thome, Crede) that are not going to be fixed until next season, if then.

rdwj
09-17-2006, 12:04 PM
Not at all.

My point in posting this was to show some of the Dark Clouds how ridiculous they've been lately. Frank may not be a member of the Sox anymore, but it's clear he has more faith in his former 'mates than some of the people on this board.

There is a big difference between being a "dark cloud" and knowing when you're licked. I still WANT the Sox to win and pull for them in every game; I just don't expect them to win anymore.

Last year, I never got to the point where I didn't believe - even when it looked like the Indians were unbeatable - so it's not like I'm a dark cloud at heart. I just can't see how you look at how this team is playing and what they have ahead of them and think that they've got a shot at the playoffs.

They just don't have the magic this year.

batmanZoSo
09-17-2006, 12:13 PM
Not at all.

My point in posting this was to show some of the Dark Clouds how ridiculous they've been lately. Frank may not be a member of the Sox anymore, but it's clear he has more faith in his former 'mates than some of the people on this board.

Well, this is media talk so you can bet that it's a tad more political than what would be said in the dugout or in one's head. I'm sure most people and players have counted us out by now and not without good reason. We are not eliminated, but we're at the point where we need a miracle.

Jurr
09-17-2006, 12:15 PM
There is a big difference between being a "dark cloud" and knowing when you're licked. I still WANT the Sox to win and pull for them in every game; I just don't expect them to win anymore.

Last year, I never got to the point where I didn't believe - even when it looked like the Indians were unbeatable - so it's not like I'm a dark cloud at heart. I just can't see how you look at how this team is playing and what they have ahead of them and think that they've got a shot at the playoffs.

They just don't have the magic this year.
This team had a totally different mindset.
Ozzie, instead of getting the troops ready for the year and getting a positive tone set, was busy running his mouth, reveling in his newly found celebrity.

The Sox players came out cocky, with their Red Sox-like long hair, scruffy faces, and rock star mentalities, expecting to roll over the world in front of huge crowds every night.

Once it was crunch time and there was a couple of serious contenders, the Sox found that they just didn't have "it". Jim Leyland was busy building that aggressive attitude with his rant about his team not being ready to play, which helped set a tone for the season.

Ozzie was spending his time throwing barbs at Mariotti, Alex Rodriguez, and the rest.

This team has looked lost for a long time, and that's sad, considering the financial investment the fans and management put into this year.

palehozenychicty
09-17-2006, 12:18 PM
This team had a totally different mindset.
Ozzie, instead of getting the troops ready for the year and getting a positive tone set, was busy running his mouth, reveling in his newly found celebrity.

The Sox players came out cocky, with their Red Sox-like long hair, scruffy faces, and rock star mentalities, expecting to roll over the world in front of huge crowds every night.

Once it was crunch time and there was a couple of serious contenders, the Sox found that they just didn't have "it". Jim Leyland was busy building that aggressive attitude with his rant about his team not being ready to play, which helped set a tone for the season.

Ozzie was spending his time throwing barbs at Mariotti, Alex Rodriguez, and the rest.

This team has looked lost for a long time, and that's sad, considering the financial investment the fans and management put into this year.

Which is why repeating is so difficult. You nailed it on the head, with winning a Series in a town that hasn't had a winner for 88 years, the celebrity was impossible to avoid. Regardless of what happens from here on out, the focus will return to baseball first in the offseason. Book it.

batmanZoSo
09-17-2006, 12:38 PM
This team had a totally different mindset.
Ozzie, instead of getting the troops ready for the year and getting a positive tone set, was busy running his mouth, reveling in his newly found celebrity.

The Sox players came out cocky, with their Red Sox-like long hair, scruffy faces, and rock star mentalities, expecting to roll over the world in front of huge crowds every night.

Once it was crunch time and there was a couple of serious contenders, the Sox found that they just didn't have "it". Jim Leyland was busy building that aggressive attitude with his rant about his team not being ready to play, which helped set a tone for the season.

Ozzie was spending his time throwing barbs at Mariotti, Alex Rodriguez, and the rest.

This team has looked lost for a long time, and that's sad, considering the financial investment the fans and management put into this year.

As it turns out, that first Cleveland series was more telling than we thought and would be a microcosm of the season. Just big crowds, trophies, hooplah, and an acute lack of focus. I guess it's just a case of a franchise not used to winning.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2006, 01:27 PM
Jurr:

Ozzie obviously thought something was up when he called a team meeting one week into spring games to talk about 'effort'. The Sox were 0-4 at the time having gotten hammered and blown apart.

Yes it was 'only' spring training but as we've seen it set the tone for the 'laid back', 'eh' season. Ozzie smelled something and it wasn't good. The problem is that he didn't take to task his players enough this season. I hope he's learned from it. Remember he's still developing as a manager.

Lip

TomBradley72
09-17-2006, 01:36 PM
and an acute lack of focus. I guess it's just a case of a franchise not used to winning.

More like an "acute lack of pitching". In 2005 we led the league in team ERA...in 2006..8th place...all of the four current AL playoff teams (Yankees, Twins, Tigers and A's) are in the top 5 teams in the AL pitching.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2006, 02:02 PM
Tom:

Look at the number of wins from the starters, look at the number of quality starts. They are among the best in MLB.

Have they pitched as well as in 2005...no...are the starters as bad as some think? Again...no.

The pitching issue rests squarely with a bullpen that has been in flux and unreliable since the second game of the season.

Lip

TomBradley72
09-17-2006, 02:27 PM
Tom:

Look at the number of wins from the starters, look at the number of quality starts. They are among the best in MLB.

Have they pitched as well as in 2005...no...are the starters as bad as some think? Again...no.

The pitching issue rests squarely with a bullpen that has been in flux and unreliable since the second game of the season.

Lip

I think the "wins" stat for the starters is mostly driven by the offense...but the quality starts stat is highly relevent.

Overall I agree Lip...the "separation" of the starting pitchers performance and the relievers started about 30 days ago.

caulfield12
09-17-2006, 02:31 PM
I think the "wins" stat for the starters is mostly driven by the offense...but the quality starts stat is highly relevent.

Overall I agree Lip...the "separation" of the starting pitchers performance and the relievers started about 30 days ago.


I'm going with the final game against TB at home we were leading by one before Navarro homered off Thornton (first of season against LHP) and then McCarthy blew it in extras.

We struggled mightily against the Royals that weekend, then Jenks blew two games the following week (against the Red Sox and Indians).

McCarthy blew three tie games during that stretch and contributed mightily to a 4-3 deficit in KC (Sunday) becoming a blowout.