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A. Cavatica
09-13-2006, 11:41 PM
Call out the White Sox Army on this one.

ESPN page 2 has a "Hometown Bums" ballot (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=snibbe/060913) that lets you pick your favorite bum for each team. The Sox choices are Chick Gandil, Albert Belle, Terry Bevington, Jerry Dybzinski, and Charles Comiskey.

Gandil? Comiskey? The statute of limitations has surely expired on them. Dybzinski? He was a fairly popular player, remembered for one mistake. Not being happy with the selection, I e-mailed in my own list, which follows here.

----

Here's a whole team of White Sox bums, all from the past decade.

c - Josh Paul. A heralded prospect, Paul's biggest contribution to the Sox came in last year's ALCS -- playing for the opposition.

1b - Wil Cordero. Bad hitter, bad fielder, and not much of a 'character guy' either.

2b - Roberto Alomar. Had no skills left whatsoever when the Sox got him, and never exhibited the pennant-race leadership the Sox hoped for.

ss - Royce Clayton. Set a Sox record for fielding percentage, but Chicago fans couldn't get him out of town fast enough.

3b - Chris Snopek. A good prospect, Snopek wilted when he got his big chance. In his only season as a regular, he hit .218 and fielded .915.

lf - Albert Belle. Even a .328/49/152 season doesn't keep Albert from being a bum. (Does it seem to you that the Sox have had more than their share of clubhouse cancers?)

cf - Julio Ramirez. Had a torrid spring and made the team. Lasted 37 at-bats, batting .081.

rf - Joe Borchard. A record-setting bonus baby, Borchard never hit for average. His biggest contribution: being traded for Matt Thornton.

sp - Jaime Navarro. After the Sox decided he was a cheap alternative to Roger Clemens, Navarro posted a 6+ ERA in three seasons.

rp - Jose Paniagua. Pitched one-third of an inning in his White Sox career, posting a 108.00 ERA. Flipped off the fans on his way to the dugout. Killed the Sox' momentum in the '03 race.

Manager - Terry Bevington. Famous for once signaling to the bullpen when he had nobody warming up, and that fairly sums up his managerial acumen.

23Ventura
09-13-2006, 11:57 PM
rp - Jose Paniagua. Pitched one-third of an inning in his White Sox career, posting a 108.00 ERA. Flipped off the fans on his way to the dugout. Killed the Sox' momentum in the '03 race.
I was at that game. I really thought he was gonna blow it. Good move by the Sox to release him the very next day. He narrowly inches out Jaime Navarro to get my vote.

cheezheadsoxfan
09-14-2006, 12:02 AM
Call out the White Sox Army on this one.

ESPN page 2 has a "Hometown Bums" ballot (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=snibbe/060913) ----



lf - Albert Belle. Even a .328/49/152 season doesn't keep Albert from being a bum. (Does it seem to you that the Sox have had more than their share of clubhouse cancers?)



Top of my list. I found him the most annoying player ever on the team and I've been a fan since '59.

russ99
09-14-2006, 12:17 AM
Whoa. Paniagua and Navarro mentioned in the same post? I'm breaking out in hives.

I was REALLY let down by the Dybber, so he got my vote. Albert Belle?!? Oh I guess ESPN forgot about his monster season for the Sox. At least we never called him "Joey"...

I'd go with the infamous Mike Caruso at SS over Clayton.

ChiSoxRowand
09-14-2006, 12:23 AM
Navarro

A. Cavatica
09-14-2006, 12:23 AM
I'd go with the infamous Mike Caruso at SS over Clayton.

I gave Caruso the benefit of the doubt because he overachieved his rookie year, then fell apart quickly, which is partly the Sox' fault for bringing him up too soon. Clayton was just the total offensive millstone.

PKalltheway
09-14-2006, 12:28 AM
Call out the White Sox Army on this one.

ESPN page 2 has a "Hometown Bums" ballot (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=snibbe/060913) that lets you pick your favorite bum for each team.
I saw on the "ballot" that Page 2 put Roger Clemens under the Blue Jays bums. Did he say something that ruffled Blue Jays fans' feathers?:?:

A. Cavatica
09-14-2006, 12:30 AM
I saw on the "ballot" that Page 2 put Roger Clemens under the Blue Jays bums. Did he say something that ruffled Blue Jays fans' feathers?:?:

IIRC he was in a hurry to get out of Toronto. But he did win a Cy Young there, right?

EDIT: Two in two years!

PKalltheway
09-14-2006, 12:33 AM
IIRC he was in a hurry to get out of Toronto. But he did win a Cy Young there, right?

EDIT: Two in two years!
Arguably the two best years of his career because he was out to prove to everybody that he wasn't old, fat, and finished yet.

chisoxmike
09-14-2006, 12:34 AM
What about Todd Richie?

:bundy

PKalltheway
09-14-2006, 12:36 AM
What about Todd Richie?

:bundy
Man, was he terrible! Didn't he go like 5-15 in 2002?

russ99
09-14-2006, 12:42 AM
Arguably the two best years of his career because he was out to prove to everybody that he wasn't old, fat, and finished yet.

Then after those two seasons, he and his two agents, the Hendricks brothers (known in Houston as "Team Bastard") forced the Jays to trade him to the hated Yankees for the awe inspiring collection of players: Homer Bush, David Wells and Graeme Lloyd.

PKalltheway
09-14-2006, 12:48 AM
Then after those two seasons, he and his two agents, the Hendricks brothers (known in Houston as "Team Bastard") forced the Jays to trade him to the hated Yankees for the awe inspiring collection of players: Homer Bush, David Wells and Graeme Lloyd.
Now I'm starting to see why he's on there now haha!

hold2dibber
09-14-2006, 08:34 AM
I was REALLY let down by the Dybber, so he got my vote.

Hold two, Dybber!!!!!!!!! Hold two!!!!!!!

Deuce
09-14-2006, 08:37 AM
:thechoice

doublem23
09-14-2006, 08:41 AM
I gave Caruso the benefit of the doubt because he overachieved his rookie year, then fell apart quickly, which is partly the Sox' fault for bringing him up too soon. Clayton was just the total offensive millstone.

That and who can forget his homer into Wrigely's baskets on Sunday to sweep away the Cubs in 1999?

Priceless.

The Immigrant
09-14-2006, 08:52 AM
David Wells merits a vote or two.

Madvora
09-14-2006, 09:11 AM
Does any other team have a guy that only played one inning that is so remembered and hated by their fan base?
Paniagua... 1 inning and we still can't get that guy out of our minds! We won that game too!

Thome25
09-14-2006, 09:14 AM
Top of my list. I found him the most annoying player ever on the team and I've been a fan since '59.

I know that Belle probably doesn't deserve my praise but how could you possibly say he was the most annoying player ever?

He still hold the record for most HRs in a single season for the White Sox. He is NOT the most annoying player ever.

The honor of most annoying goes to Jaime Navarro. He had a big mouth and could never shut the **** up. Oh and one other thing, he flat out sucked as well.

Frank is running a close second. Even though I loved him and he is still one of my favorite players of all the time he was extremely annoying and frustrating because he kept sticking his foot in his mouth and could never just be quiet and hit the damn ball.

eriqjaffe
09-14-2006, 09:42 AM
Two pages and no mention of...

http://www.strictlymint.com/online_store/store/images/20885.jpg?

I'm surprised.

Johnny Mostil
09-14-2006, 09:51 AM
Two pages and no mention of...

http://www.strictlymint.com/online_store/store/images/20885.jpg?

I'm surprised.

A. Cavatica limited the choices to the past decade, but otherwise I'd agree.

A. Cavatica, I don't agree with all your choices, but I'm so awe-struck by your ability to name a whole team of mostly-deserving bums that I'm not going to quibble . . .

35th&Shields
09-14-2006, 10:00 AM
Two pages and no mention of...

http://www.strictlymint.com/online_store/store/images/20885.jpg?

I'm surprised.

Man, he sure hit the weight room hard over the next decade. Look how skinny he is....................

Kub_Killer_15
09-14-2006, 10:08 AM
Man, he sure hit the weight room hard over the next decade. Look how skinny he is....................



:tealtutor:

stl_sox_fan
09-14-2006, 10:38 AM
It's been said earlier in this thread.
My vote...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHOTOFILE/AADB023%7ETodd-Ritchie-Studio-Portrait-Photofile-Posters.jpg
5-15 baby!!!!!

hold2dibber
09-14-2006, 10:52 AM
I know that Belle probably doesn't deserve my praise but how could you possibly say he was the most annoying player ever?

He still hold the record for most HRs in a single season for the White Sox. He is NOT the most annoying player ever.

The honor of most annoying goes to Jaime Navarro. He had a big mouth and could never shut the **** up. Oh and one other thing, he flat out sucked as well.

Frank is running a close second. Even though I loved him and he is still one of my favorite players of all the time he was extremely annoying and frustrating because he kept sticking his foot in his mouth and could never just be quiet and hit the damn ball.

And don't forget that we passed on Roger Clemens to get Navarro!!! Ugh. He's the hands down winner by a landslide. And while I agree with your sentiment that Frank's penchant for foot-in-mouth disease was frustrating at times, IMHO that problem was so out-weighed by his staggering offensive abilities, that it doesn't even merit a mention.

hold2dibber
09-14-2006, 10:53 AM
Two pages and no mention of...

http://www.strictlymint.com/online_store/store/images/20885.jpg?

I'm surprised.

I'm not surprised. I despise Sosa for what he did/was during his post-White Sox career, not because of his time with the Sox.

tebman
09-14-2006, 10:59 AM
I gotta go with Bevington on this one. In the great panoply of bums, Bevington earns a capital "B" in my book.

From his belligerence to his mopery, Terry Bevington will ever reign supreme as the living embodiment of Bum.

(brrr...shivering at the memory...may we never see his likes again!)

soxfanaticpaulie
09-14-2006, 11:04 AM
Anyone else notice that they have Roger Dorn listed for the Indians?:rolling:

Nice touch!:D:

I'll take Bevington from the Sox, but they missed out on some great ones.

Baby Fisk
09-14-2006, 11:53 AM
I saw on the "ballot" that Page 2 put Roger Clemens under the Blue Jays bums. Did he say something that ruffled Blue Jays fans' feathers?:?:

The story goes that Clemens signed with the Jays both to prove to the Red Sox that he wasn't washed up, and because the Jays convinced him that they wanted to be a playoff contender again. After two non-contending years (5th place 1997 and 3rd place 1998) and still no world series ring, Clemens bolted to the Yankees and finally got his ring.

Scottzilla
09-14-2006, 12:07 PM
there is no way in a thousand years there could ever be a bigger bum that chick gandil.

LITTLE NELL
09-14-2006, 01:35 PM
Claudell Washington, a real dog.

Johnny Mostil
09-14-2006, 01:37 PM
Then after those two seasons, he and his two agents, the Hendricks brothers (known in Houston as "Team Bastard") forced the Jays to trade him to the hated Yankees for the awe inspiring collection of players: Homer Bush, David Wells and Graeme Lloyd.

I wonder if Wells could crack the rotation for A. Cavatica's team. Let's see--a man who's never been in shape (maybe a little harsh, but maybe not) who called out Frank Thomas for (more or less) not being so, all while compiling a glorious 5-7 record in what (according to the salary statistics here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wellsda01.shtml)) was the single best-paying season of his career? Classic . . .

Whoops, I see The Immigrant beat me to it . . .

ode to veeck
09-14-2006, 01:44 PM
this is no contest ... :thechoice:

wilburaga
09-14-2006, 01:47 PM
Steve 'Alpo' Sax. Bow wow.

W

chisoxfanatic
09-14-2006, 02:35 PM
I'll vote for Navarro. He was the biggest piece of lazy scum I've ever seen...just collecting a paycheck.

ode to veeck
09-14-2006, 03:02 PM
Claudell Washington, a real dog.

C'mon, Claudell had one off year, just happned to be one of his 2 with the Sox. Lifetime .278/.320 ba/obp and close to 2k hits over 17 seasons ain't too shabby

LITTLE NELL
09-14-2006, 03:30 PM
The ? was about hometown bums, Washington was a bum with the Sox and got booed out of town.

vegyrex
09-14-2006, 03:54 PM
Cordero
Navarro
Paniagua
Belle

Domeshot17
09-14-2006, 04:12 PM
My vote goes to 1 of these 2 guys

:moron

OR

http://imagesource.art.com/images/-/Billy-Koch--C10121494.jpeg

stl_sox_fan
09-14-2006, 04:36 PM
:moron



Aghhh!!!

Jay is just angry cuz he didn't make the cut for Flock O Seagulls.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/RunningSeagulls.jpg

palehosepub
09-14-2006, 04:43 PM
absolutely Navarro, lousy pitcher who took much of the salary budget and was always blaming someone else

Ziggy S
09-14-2006, 06:29 PM
1. Bevington/Navarro (tied)
2. Fatso Wells
3. Cordero
4. The Choice
5. Richie (We gave up three pitchers for this guy?)

TDog
09-14-2006, 06:56 PM
It depends on how you want to define hometown bums. If you're looking for a player who took big money, disrespected the fans, and underperformed, no one matches Jamie Navarro, although the list of such players would be unfortunately long. (I'm surprised I didn't see Billy Koch's name more.)

Then there are the bums who are known for that one play that ruined everything -- your Bill Buckners and Fred Merkles, for example. Jerry Dybzinski falls into that category. The Sox haven't been close enough to winning often enough to have many of these players, although that essentially is what Chick Gandil is doing among the nominees, along with Donnie Moore for the Angels and Steve Bartman for the Cubs. Britt Burns gave up the home run in 1983, but he was in extra innings with a shutout. He pitched a great game. Certainly no could find any such bum from 2000, considering that the key player who went hitless and who was on the defensive end of the last play of the series also was the teams greatest hitter of all-time.

The nominations on the Web site seem to be randomly chosen. Charles Comiskey? There would be no White Sox but for Charles Comiskey. Some people at WSI may have voted for Reinsdorf before last year, maybe. Many of the nominees make no sense. Mr. Met? Danny Ainge? A.J. Pierzinsky with the Giants. They didn't even nominate Fred Merkle for the Giants.

This is a stupid election and a stupid ballot.

wsoxfan111
09-14-2006, 07:53 PM
ss - Royce Clayton. Set a Sox record for fielding percentage, but Chicago fans couldn't get him out of town fast enough.



His biggest contribution was that error in the Arizona game last year

What about Tony Graffanino, he helped the sox beat Boston on that groundball that rolled inbetween his legs.

A. Cavatica
09-14-2006, 09:14 PM
His biggest contribution was that error in the Arizona game last year

What about Tony Graffanino, he helped the sox beat Boston on that groundball that rolled inbetween his legs.

Graffanino? He was money for us. And the Red Sox have lots bigger fish to fry.

TDog
09-14-2006, 09:16 PM
Graffanino? He was money for us. And the Red Sox have lots bigger fish to fry.

Bill Buckner is an awefully big fish.

A. Cavatica
09-14-2006, 09:19 PM
I wonder if Wells could crack the rotation for A. Cavatica's team. Let's see--a man who's never been in shape (maybe a little harsh, but maybe not) who called out Frank Thomas for (more or less) not being so, all while compiling a glorious 5-7 record in what (according to the salary statistics here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wellsda01.shtml)) was the single best-paying season of his career? Classic . . .

Whoops, I see The Immigrant beat me to it . . .

Yes, Ritchie would've been my #2 starter, Wells my #3, Schoenweis my #4, and of course we'd run all kinds of crappy pitchers out there for #5. :D:

Railsplitter
09-15-2006, 11:35 AM
Claudell deserves his scorn from Sox fans for his time here.

Jamie Navarro deserves consideration here. He's the only pitcher to give up three roof top homers at Tiger Stadium-- and he never pitched for the Tigers.

Scottzilla
09-15-2006, 12:41 PM
It depends on how you want to define hometown bums. If you're looking for a player who took big money, disrespected the fans, and underperformed, no one matches Jamie Navarro, although the list of such players would be unfortunately long. (I'm surprised I didn't see Billy Koch's name more.)

Then there are the bums who are known for that one play that ruined everything -- your Bill Buckners and Fred Merkles, for example. Jerry Dybzinski falls into that category. The Sox haven't been close enough to winning often enough to have many of these players, although that essentially is what Chick Gandil is doing among the nominees, along with Donnie Moore for the Angels and Steve Bartman for the Cubs. Britt Burns gave up the home run in 1983, but he was in extra innings with a shutout. He pitched a great game. Certainly no could find any such bum from 2000, considering that the key player who went hitless and who was on the defensive end of the last play of the series also was the teams greatest hitter of all-time.

The nominations on the Web site seem to be randomly chosen. Charles Comiskey? There would be no White Sox but for Charles Comiskey. Some people at WSI may have voted for Reinsdorf before last year, maybe. Many of the nominees make no sense. Mr. Met? Danny Ainge? A.J. Pierzinsky with the Giants. They didn't even nominate Fred Merkle for the Giants.

This is a stupid election and a stupid ballot.

I agree that the ballot is stupid but I kinda like the idea. who is the worst character in a teams history. I dont like the idea of guys who just didnt live up to expectations being picked for this kinda thing unless they were saying themselves how great they were gonna be.

Also I think Comiskey is on there because alot of people believe he is just as much if not more to blame for the black sox scandal. I am not one of those.

TDog
09-15-2006, 12:58 PM
I agree that the ballot is stupid but I kinda like the idea. who is the worst character in a teams history. I dont like the idea of guys who just didnt live up to expectations being picked for this kinda thing unless they were saying themselves how great they were gonna be.

Also I think Comiskey is on there because alot of people believe he is just as much if not more to blame for the black sox scandal. I am not one of those.


President George Bush is on the Texas Ranges ballot.

A. Cavatica
09-15-2006, 01:21 PM
President George Bush is on the Texas Ranges ballot.

If you ignore the political aspect (and I'm going to, because I don't want this thread moved to the roadhouse!) then was Bush that bad as an owner of the Rangers? They've never had a good owner, have they?

PatK
09-15-2006, 01:37 PM
Billy Koch is kind of harsh, when you hear about how when he was struggling with Morgellons when he came to the Sox.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2006, 01:40 PM
Bush is on there for one reason only...he is the guy who allowed Sammy Sosa to be traded to the White Sox in 1989.

Obviously the folks who did the ballott don't allow for the steroid factor do they?

Lip

White_Sock
09-15-2006, 02:06 PM
Jerry " the tinkerer" Manuel

Without him we would have never seen the choice play in a Sox uniform with a below .100 batting average.

Foulke You
09-15-2006, 04:45 PM
Jerry " the tinkerer" Manuel

Without him we would have never seen the choice play in a Sox uniform with a below .100 batting average.
For me, Royce Clayton was the worst. At least with Jaime Navarro, we only had to put up with his aura of suckitude once every 5 days. Royce was trotted out there every single friggin day by Jerry Manuel. How many games did we move Jose Valentin all over the field away from his natural position just so Royce could play every day? No other manager would have stuck with him that long.

Royce was a terrible hitter. He swung from his heels all the time yet had only warning track power. He struck out a ton as well. Royce's batting average was around .125 for the first half of the season, but he would quickly make up for it during "garbage" time in September when all the late season AAA pitchers get called up. Royce's annual September "tear" after the Twins pulled away with the division was the only way he got his average above .200 for the season. Not to mention, his supposed strength was his fielding which Sox fans quickly learned was a mirage. Clayton's arm, while accurate, was very weak and probably better suited for second base. Royce would also dog it on balls that were slightly out of reach because he wouldn't risk messing up his fielding % which is the only reason he still had a job in the bigs. The taking off the shoes in the dugout was the last straw in a long list of offenses.

Royce never owned up to his poor play and always rested on his fielding % as validation of his starting job to the media. In fact, he bragged about setting the franchise record for fielding % on his way out of Chicago and saying (and I'm paraphrasing) "that's what they brought me here to do, I guess it wasn't enough". The Sox clung to the Clayton experiment far too long. Everytime I get a little upset during a game with Uribe or Cintron, I think back to the Clayton era at SS and immediately feel better about our current guys.:cool: