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Moses_Scurry
09-11-2006, 03:10 PM
My opinion, and this is in my time as a fan, so feel free to add more:

1. Ozzie - Body of work says it all. Only championship in my lifetime.
2. LaRussa - Won a division in '83. Somewhat competitive the other years.
3. Lamont - Won a division, but underachieved other seasons.
4. Torborg - not enough work to go any higher. Got alot out of a weak '90 team.
5. Manuel - see Lamont
6. Fregosi - terrible teams. Not entirely his fault, but never overachieved
7. Bevington - idiot

Baby Fisk
09-11-2006, 03:14 PM
1. Guillen - world championship.

2. Torborg - not sure why things soured, he seemed pretty solid; maybe one of the amateur Sox historians could elaborate.

3. Lamont/LaRussa/Manuel - playoffs, but couldn't win a championship.

4. Bevington/Fregosi - idiots.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-11-2006, 04:00 PM
1. Chuck Tanner
2. Ozzie Guillen
3. Bob Lemon
4. Jeff Torborg
5. Gene Lamont

C-Dawg
09-11-2006, 04:09 PM
1. Chuck Tanner
2. Ozzie Guillen
3. Bob Lemon
4. Jeff Torborg
5. Gene Lamont

What no love for Don Kessinger?

ewokpelts
09-11-2006, 04:09 PM
1. Guillen - world championship.

2. Torborg - not sure why things soured, he seemed pretty solid; maybe one of the amateur Sox historians could elaborate.

3. Lamont/LaRussa/Manuel - playoffs, but couldn't win a championship.

4. Bevington/Fregosi - idiots.
torborg left to manage the mets, and get a lot of money to do so

ewokpelts
09-11-2006, 04:12 PM
here's my breakdown for the managers i have seen in my 15 or so years of being a fan:
ozzie - insane, but he DID win a ws for us....
manuel - idiot, especially from the 2nd half of 2000-on
bevington - ****ing idiot
lamont - close, but no cigar
torborg - love him for 1990, but he should have stayed

FielderJones
09-11-2006, 04:21 PM
1. Fielder Jones - world championship over Cubs

2. Pants Rowland - world championship

3. Ozzie Guillen - world championship

4. Kid Gleason - AL championship, clueless about crooked players

5. Al Lopez - AL championship, bad luck against tough Dodgers and their lame "ballpark"

Fake Chet Lemon
09-11-2006, 04:21 PM
1. Guillen - world championship.

2. Torborg - not sure why things soured, he seemed pretty solid; maybe one of the amateur Sox historians could elaborate.

3. Lamont/LaRussa/Manuel - playoffs, but couldn't win a championship.

4. Bevington/Fregosi - idiots.

Am I reading this correctly, you rate Manuel equal to LaRussa? Manuel was horrible, he will never get another managerial job again. Period. LaRussa will always find work. What does that tell ya?

thomas35forever
09-11-2006, 04:24 PM
1) Ozzie - World Series. 'Nuff said.

2) La Russa - Headed the "Winning Ugly" campaign. Hawk shouldn't have ran him out of town.

3) Lamont - Decent manager who won us a division crown.

4) Torborg - Mananger of the Year in '90.

5) Manuel - Won division for us in 2000, but I'm ranking him lower because of his idiocy.

6) Bevington - Any questions?

Sorry if I forgot any.

WisSoxFan
09-11-2006, 04:35 PM
1. Ozzie - It's hard to argue with a World Championship
2. LaRussa - Has proven to be an excellent manager. Learned his trade running the Sox.
3. Tanner - Brought the Sox out of the desert in the early 70's. Mananged the first White Sox teams I rooted for including that great '72 team.
4. Lamont - I liked him. He did a lot with a good, but not great team.
5. Torborg - It is close between him and Lamont, but Lamont got to the post-season.
6. Manuel - I'm not as down on Manuel as most, but he certainly belongs below the rest.
7. Fregosi - Why?
8. Bevington - A complete and utter disaster.

I know there are many more that I left off. Bob Lemon would probably fall in the Manuel/Torborg area. Wasn't Paul Richards the Sox manager for awhile in the mid 70's? Don Kessinger, Larry Doby am I missing anyone since 1972?

mwc44
09-11-2006, 04:38 PM
1) Ozzie - World Series. 'Nuff said.

2) La Russa - Headed the "Winning Ugly" campaign. Hawk shouldn't have ran him out of town.

3) Lamont - Decent manager who won us a division crown.

4) Torborg - Mananger of the Year in '90.

5) Manuel - Won division for us in 2000, but I'm ranking him lower because of his idiocy.

6) Bevington - Any questions?

Sorry if I forgot any.

My order also, with the exception that I would flip Torborg and Lamont, and say a few more unkind words about Bevington, but I value my WSI membership.

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2006, 04:43 PM
i love this thread... ozzie guillen doesn't hold a candle to tony larussa or chuck tanner as a manager and never will, world series, or no world series. some teams are destined to win, the 2005 white sox was one of those teams,and no one is happier about that than me.

Trav
09-11-2006, 04:48 PM
i love this thread... ozzie guillen doesn't hold a candle to tony larussa or chuck tanner as a manager and never will, world series, or no world series. some teams are destined to win, the 2005 white sox was one of those teams,and no one is happier about that than me.


I'm a bit confused. What would you say that a good manager is? Would it be about winning it all? I guess not...

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2006, 04:51 PM
bob brenley great manager? why isn't he managing instead of announcing for a last place team? so, under your estimation, results, in every instance, dictates how good or poor you are? very, very naive.

LITTLE NELL
09-11-2006, 04:57 PM
1. Al Lopez, greatest handler of pitchers ever.
2. Tony Larussa, should still be managing the Sox.
3. Chuck Tanner, took a team that won 56 games in 1970 to a great pennant race in 72.

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2006, 05:03 PM
to answer your question directly... no, winning it all is not my definition of a great manager, it CAN go into the equation of what a great manager is. this team, on paper is better than last years team, and yet we are underacieving and inconsistant... why? of course the players have to take the bulk of the heat for that, but on that flipside the players have to get the credit for pulling that rabbit out of the hat last year.

the influence of a manager, for the most part, is subtle. ozzie had one of those years where even when he did something moronic, the team pulled him out. we were a team of destiny last year, and it was the greatest ride of my baseball life. i thank everyone in the organization for that, but, i'm not gonna put blinders on either.

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2006, 05:05 PM
1. Al Lopez, greatest handler of pitchers ever.
2. Tony Larussa, should still be managing the Sox.
3. Chuck Tanner, took a team that won 56 games in 1970 to a great pennant race in 72.
now that is a more accurate list, although i never saw lopez manage, my family, which is baseballcentric said basically the same thing, that lopez knew how to manage a pitching staff.

MVP
09-11-2006, 05:36 PM
1. Ozzie- WS championship.
2. LaRussa- '83 divisions champs.
3. Torborg- the 1990 team.
4. Lamont- '93 division champs.
5. Fregosi- I rate him higher than Manuel because he never had anything to work with while he was here. (He did take the Phillies to the '93 World Series and almost won. He just never had the players to do that when he was here.)
6. Manuel- Unlike Fregosi, he had the talent here and did not produce more than one division title.
7. Bevington- You can take judicial notice of the fact that he was worst.

TomBradley72
09-11-2006, 06:09 PM
Terry Bevington
Larry Doby
Don Kessinger
Doug Rader
Don Gutteridge

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2006, 06:26 PM
i'm assuming that's facetious... even i would put ozzie ahead of that bunch of stiffs.

SluggersAway
09-11-2006, 06:29 PM
1. Fielder Jones - world championship over Cubs

2. Pants Rowland - world championship

3. Ozzie Guillen - world championship

4. Kid Gleason - AL championship, clueless about crooked players

5. Al Lopez - AL championship, bad luck against tough Dodgers and their lame "ballpark"

You sir, are correct.

MarySwiss
09-11-2006, 06:57 PM
1. Ozzie
2. Al Lopez
3. No one
Well, that was easy! :cool:

Hitmen77
09-11-2006, 07:00 PM
torborg left to manage the mets, and get a lot of money to do so

Yes, but the Sox had him under contract at the time and could have denied the Mets the right to hire him away. It was suggested by the media at the time that the Sox were more than happy to let him get out of his contract and leave. Sounded like the Sox were pretty much saying "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out". This could be totally false for all I know, but it was a common perception of events at the time.

Anyone have anymore insight on what happened there?

robertks61
09-11-2006, 07:38 PM
Yes, but the Sox had him under contract at the time and could have denied the Mets the right to hire him away. It was suggested by the media at the time that the Sox were more than happy to let him get out of his contract and leave. Sounded like the Sox were pretty much saying "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out". This could be totally false for all I know, but it was a common perception of events at the time.

That's how I remember it.

Lip Man 1
09-11-2006, 07:56 PM
To me Al Lopez was the finest manager in Sox history. A guy who knew baseball, was a team captain for every club he played on and a gentleman. He got along with the fans, he got along very well with the media. He respected his players but wasn't afraid in the least of chewing them out and getting right in their faces.

He expected the game to be played properly...also he had winning seasons in his first NINE years as Sox skipper.

If you haven't already, take some time and read some of the interviews from guys like Ray Herbert, Gary Peters, Joe Horlen, Ken Berry and so forth. They really clue you in about Al.

Regarding Jeff Torborg. There are two stories out there, only one of which can be true.

One is that he went to manager the Mets because his ailing mother lived in the New York area and he wanted to be close to her.

The other and one which I have heard at times 'off the record' is that certain members of the Sox organization thought he abused pitchers especially Bobby Thigpen. They were extremely upset about it and basically 'suggested' that he take the Mets job because he wouldn't be returning in 1992 as Sox manager.

I ask Donn Pall directly about these charges in his interview.

Lip

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2006, 08:16 PM
lip... tell donn billy wilson says hi, we played at illinois together, DP is a good guy.

asindc
09-11-2006, 09:01 PM
1. Ozzie- WS championship.
2. LaRussa- '83 divisions champs.
3. Torborg- the 1990 team.
4. Lamont- '93 division champs.
5. Fregosi- I rate him higher than Manuel because he never had anything to work with while he was here. (He did take the Phillies to the '93 World Series and almost won. He just never had the players to do that when he was here.)
6. Manuel- Unlike Fregosi, he had the talent here and did not produce more than one division title.
7. Bevington- You can take judicial notice of the fact that he was worst.

This is exactly what I would list.

About Torborg: He is a NY native, and according to him, he wanted to go back home. He has since publicly stated that he should have stayed with the Sox, given the team he would of had to work with. He did not addresss whether or not he was forced out. I always thought that he was a better manager than Lamont, and 93 might have turned out differently if Torborg was still the manager then.

ondafarm
09-11-2006, 09:18 PM
1. Ozzie - won a World Championship.
2. Tanner - did more with less than any manager here
3. Torborg - very smart baseball guy, good results with what he had
4. Fregosi - maximized his talent
5. Lemon - went on to manage the Yankee$
6 Doby - over-matched, but important ground breaker
7. LaRussa - was terrible with the Sox, much better now. He cost the White Sox a playoff appearance in the strike year.
8. Lamont - ruined more pitchers than anybody else on this list
9. Manuel - see Titantic
10. Bevington - Titantic rams the Andrea Doria

TornLabrum
09-11-2006, 10:22 PM
To me Al Lopez was the finest manager in Sox history. A guy who knew baseball, was a team captain for every club he played on and a gentleman. He got along with the fans, he got along very well with the media. He respected his players but wasn't afraid in the least of chewing them out and getting right in their faces.

He expected the game to be played properly...also he had winning seasons in his first NINE years as Sox skipper.

If you haven't already, take some time and read some of the interviews from guys like Ray Herbert, Gary Peters, Joe Horlen, Ken Berry and so forth. They really clue you in about Al.

Regarding Jeff Torborg. There are two stories out there, only one of which can be true.

One is that he went to manager the Mets because his ailing mother lived in the New York area and he wanted to be close to her.

The other and one which I have heard at times 'off the record' is that certain members of the Sox organization thought he abused pitchers especially Bobby Thigpen. They were extremely upset about it and basically 'suggested' that he take the Mets job because he wouldn't be returning in 1992 as Sox manager.

I ask Donn Pall directly about these charges in his interview.

Lip

The version that was going around at the time is that Clueless Schu had just taken over as GM from Larry Himes and wanted his own man in as manager. Torborg was Himes' man.

soxinem1
09-12-2006, 12:46 AM
I actually have some positives to say about most Sox managers of my lifetime, except Bevington and Kessinger. Neither demonstrated any talent to manage, so it should be a mystery why they even got the opportunity.

Either way, based on what I witnessed, here are my picks. I know they will spark some disagreements:

1. Jeff Torborg. I think he is the father behind 'Ozzieball'. The 1990 White Sox, minus the HR's, resembled the 2005 team a lot. I think he would have brought us a World Series sooner if he and Larry Himes stuck around longer.

2. Jim Fregosi. Managed to assemble good pitching staffs wherever he managed, here was no exception. I think he got the most out f his rosters while he was here. Now if he only had ML line ups..... who knows?

3. Tony LaRussa. May STILL be here if not for the Hawk of 1986. Love him or hate him, when he entered the Sox manager's chair, he steadilly oversaw noticeable improvement that brought th team back to respectability.

4. Ozzie Guillen. The influence of the first three is evident in him. Each of them taught him something he incorporated into his own style.

5. Chuck Tanner. Helped rescue a comatose franchise. With a little more talent, who knows?

6. Bob Lemon. Great baseball guy, but as he deserved little credit for the success of the 1977 Sox, he deserved little blame for the 1978 Sox.

7. Jerry Manuel. Should have been in the top four, but his lack of understanding the importance of team play and fundamentals hurt his tenure, which was actually longer than all the managers in my lifetime except LaRussa.

8. Gene Lamont. What did Scheuler see in him?

All of the others from 1970's on get incompletes.

PKalltheway
09-12-2006, 02:26 AM
bob brenley great manager? why isn't he managing instead of announcing for a last place team? so, under your estimation, results, in every instance, dictates how good or poor you are? very, very naive.
I agree that a World Title should not dictate how good of a manager you are but come on, Ozzie Guillen took a team that many people thought was going to finish third in the division in 2005 to a World Title. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY saw this coming. The D'Backs in 2001 were already a strong team before the season started. Guillen will become the first Sox manager since Al Lopez to lead the team to back to back 90 win seasons and hopefully he'll become the first Sox manager ever to lead the team to back to back postseason appearances. Jerry Manuel wasn't going to do it. Remember when Ozzie told KW "I can't run the Kentucky Derby with a bunch of donkeys. Get me some horses." The 2005 team was of his mold. The 2004 team was the leftovers from the Jerry Manuel years, and the 2006 team was supposed to be better. They're underachieving, but they're still a damn good team that can make the postseason. The only thing that hurt Al Lopez was the fact that there was no playoff system in the 1950's and most of the 1960's. I would rank Al Lopez first though because of the success he had over an extended period of time.