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View Full Version : Uribe's CF catch: Whose ball was it?


Baby Fisk
09-06-2006, 10:30 AM
The pop up into CF last night -- three fielders converge: Uribe, Anderson and Sweeney. Uribe makes the catch while the other two stand beside him. Hawk and DJ both start tisking like a pair of old ladies. Whose ball was it?

0o0o0
09-06-2006, 10:32 AM
From what I remember, I think it should have been Anderson's.

CaptainBallz
09-06-2006, 10:33 AM
It was Anderson's. Didn't look like BA was too amused with the encroachment either.

Dan Mega
09-06-2006, 10:38 AM
Ball was Anderson's, no doubt about it. Uribe charges at everything hit withing 30 feet from him. I don't blame him for playing hard.

Heffalump
09-06-2006, 10:43 AM
Ball was Anderson's, no doubt about it. Uribe charges at everything hit withing 30 feet from him. I don't blame him for playing hard.

i don't blame him for playing hard. But I do blame him for playing stupid. With Mack out there, he definitely needs to help out, but with BA in center, Uribe needs to realize who is out there and who is calling him off. It was a great play by Juan, but a MUCH easier and safer play for Anderson.

Now my OT rant: Does Uribe know he is hitting .230? If so, why does he insist on trying to hit EVERY pitch to the ****ing moon ? ? ?

Baby Fisk
09-06-2006, 10:45 AM
Early consensus is that it was Anderson's ball. Does BA not do enough to take charge in CF? He didn't seem too demonstrative about taking that pop up. I don't blame Uribe either, but *** is he doing making catches in CF?

CHIsoxNation
09-06-2006, 10:47 AM
Definitely BA's ball

Uncle_Patrick
09-06-2006, 10:52 AM
Early consensus is that it was Anderson's ball. Does BA not do enough to take charge in CF? He didn't seem too demonstrative about taking that pop up. I don't blame Uribe either, but *** is he doing making catches in CF?

It was an interesting situation. It appeared to me like Anderson would have made the catch. I wonder if Uribe ignores being called off. I noticed a play the other day (I think it was the first game in Boston) where Iguchi made a catch near 2nd base that Uribe also charged hard on. Although Iguchi made the play, he did not looked too pleased.

EMachine10
09-06-2006, 11:12 AM
It was anderson's ball, but I think he realizes that Uribe likes to make the play no matter who's ball it is. That is why he prolly wasn't running his hardest at it, because he knew that Juan wasn't going to get out of there. I know that's not the right play, but that is my guess at what happened. Hawk should have realized that too while he was kinda ripping the two outfielders

CaptainBallz
09-06-2006, 11:14 AM
It was anderson's ball, but I think he realizes that Uribe likes to make the play no matter who's ball it is. That is why he prolly wasn't running his hardest at it, because he knew that Juan wasn't going to get out of there. I know that's not the right play, but that is my guess at what happened. Hawk should have realized that too while he was kinda ripping the two outfielders

I didn't hear Hawk's comments, but I'm sure he's fed up too because that crap has been happening ALL year and it's totally bush.

EMachine10
09-06-2006, 11:16 AM
You're right it is bush. and the way i see brian playing the outfield, he'd prolly love to catch all these balls.

southside rocks
09-06-2006, 11:16 AM
Early consensus is that it was Anderson's ball. Does BA not do enough to take charge in CF? He didn't seem too demonstrative about taking that pop up. I don't blame Uribe either, but *** is he doing making catches in CF?

IMO no, Anderson does not take charge in CF the way a center-fielder should.

Absolutely, Uribe is one of the things that need to be taken charge of; he will make a lot of runs for balls that do not belong to him. Why isn't Anderson calling Uribe off? And if that leads to a field leadership issue, why isn't it being addressed by the manager and/or coaches?

The fielding is occasionally incoherent and occasionally is too often for a WS champion team.

Does BA not have the requisite temperament to be a centerfielder? A CF has to run the outfield the way a catcher runs the infield. This worries me. :?:

Rockin Robin
09-06-2006, 11:35 AM
Now my OT rant: Does Uribe know he is hitting .230? If so, why does he insist on trying to hit EVERY pitch to the ****ing moon ? ? ?

One thing i took away from batting practice on Monday night was that Juan was trying to put on some kind of show...he put more balls out of the yard than konerko and thome combined...it was really pretty silly

daveeym
09-06-2006, 11:37 AM
And if that leads to a field leadership issue, why isn't it being addressed by the manager and/or coaches?
I think that's the main issue here. Dye, Pods, and Uribe all seem to ignore BA in the field. Maybe he's not being vocal enough but I can't imagine that's the case every time.

If it is the case there are more problems with Anderson out there then we realize and Ozzie's moves seem to make more sense.

Unfortunately I feel it's more of a rookie and trust thing rather than an issue with BA being vocal.

gbergman
09-06-2006, 11:42 AM
It was Andersons', but I felt compelled to vote for Rowand to piss people off.

soxfan13
09-06-2006, 11:50 AM
It was Anderson's. Didn't look like BA was too amused with the encroachment either.

Thats where BA has to take charge and call them off.

alohafri
09-06-2006, 11:51 AM
The center fielder is the "captain" out in the outfield. He takes charge, whether it is Anderson, Mack, or Lou Brock. Uribe needs to know his limits. He is getting very cocky out there. Will you make a two handed catch please? Will you throw the ball as soon as you get it please? Just another reason this year's edition pisses me off.

southside rocks
09-06-2006, 11:55 AM
I think that's the main issue here. Dye, Pods, and Uribe all seem to ignore BA in the field. Maybe he's not being vocal enough but I can't imagine that's the case every time.

If it is the case there are more problems with Anderson out there then we realize and Ozzie's moves seem to make more sense.

Unfortunately I feel it's more of a rookie and trust thing rather than an issue with BA being vocal.

That's what I think too.

I appreciate that BA has shown a lot of confidence this year with regard to his own play and his hitting troubles. He never did get down; he handled that well.

I also appreciate that it's not easy for a 24-year old rook to come in and take charge of a field that includes WS champion players, all of whom have their game way more polished than the rookie does.

But an essential part of the CF position is the field leadership, and if BA is too easy-going or too unsure or just too nice a guy to handle that, then he needs to tell Ozzie that he wants to play the corners, and let the team get a complete CF in there (and no, that's not Mack).

It's possible that Ozzie wants winter ball to not only help BA's hitting but help develop his leadership skills and his confidence in that area. I hope so, anyway.

viagracat
09-06-2006, 12:45 PM
The centerfielder is the captain of the outfield. And as it's eaier to run in to make a catch that make one by running out, the ball was Anderson's. He should have been screaming everybody else off the ball, and apparently he wasn't as "take charge" out there as he needed to be in that situation. Had Anderson indeed done just that and if Uribe still tried to make the play, then Ozzie needs to seriously kick his ass, but the consensus was BA didn't.

We rip on Mack all the time regarding his CF play and rightfully so, but Anderson's gotten a pass for the most part. He's better than Mack and has much more raw talent, but he doesn't play the position as smart as he should sometimes. I hope they work on that in winter ball.

Blob
09-06-2006, 01:38 PM
It was anderson's ball, but I think he realizes that Uribe likes to make the play no matter who's ball it is. That is why he prolly wasn't running his hardest at it, because he knew that Juan wasn't going to get out of there. I know that's not the right play, but that is my guess at what happened. Hawk should have realized that too while he was kinda ripping the two outfielders

I feel the same way. Hawk was mad at the wrong people yesterday. Uribe should have let one of the outfielders make the play. Both of them were close enough to have made the play.

southside rocks
09-06-2006, 01:41 PM
I feel the same way. Hawk was mad at the wrong people yesterday. Uribe should have let one of the outfielders make the play. Both of them were close enough to have made the play.

But Uribe has to get out of there, if he's called off by the CF. Failure to do that will get him benched by the manager.

Uribe's fielding style is kind of like his batting style: he goes for it with a lot of gusto, and either looks incredible, or looks dangerously silly. A center-fielder has to take charge of the outfield and that means taking charge of overly-aggressive shortstops who don't belong out there on some plays!

PatK
09-06-2006, 01:51 PM
Hawk and DJ both start tisking like a pair of old ladies.

Farmio and Singleton were as well.

daveeym
09-06-2006, 01:51 PM
The centerfielder is the captain of the outfield. And as it's eaier to run in to make a catch that make one by running out, the ball was Anderson's. He should have been screaming everybody else off the ball, and apparently he wasn't as "take charge" out there as he needed to be in that situation. Had Anderson indeed done just that and if Uribe still tried to make the play, then Ozzie needs to seriously kick his ass, but the consensus was BA didn't.

We rip on Mack all the time regarding his CF play and rightfully so, but Anderson's gotten a pass for the most part. He's better than Mack and has much more raw talent, but he doesn't play the position as smart as he should sometimes. I hope they work on that in winter ball. With the selfish pity party uribe has been throwing out there all season the question isn't just whether BA is taking command but are the other players ignoring him. If they're ignoring him Ozzie needs to step in there because the only other option is for BA to collide into some people teaching them to stay the hell out of his way. I'm not certain that it's as simple as BA not taking control.

maurice
09-06-2006, 02:16 PM
BA called off Uribe on a similar play earlier in the season and got plowed into by Uribe. Rowand had similar problems early in his career, but worked it out as he gained respect from his fellow players (and improved his D). As a rookie, Anderson unfortunately is not in a position to call out a veteran SS. That's Ozzie's job.

Chrisaway
09-06-2006, 02:18 PM
The CF sould take control of that play.

chisoxfanatic
09-06-2006, 02:26 PM
Anderson wasn't playing that ball very well, and it sure was his.

soxfan13
09-06-2006, 02:55 PM
BA called off Uribe on a similar play earlier in the season and got plowed into by Uribe. Rowand had similar problems early in his career, but worked it out as he gained respect from his fellow players (and improved his D). As a rookie, Anderson unfortunately is not in a position to call out a veteran SS. That's Ozzie's job.

No its not his job to call out Uribe. But it is his job to call OFF Uribe on that play. Ive seen to many players get hurt that way(with the outfielder not taking charge of those situations) It happened to Ozzie when he played and most recently Rowand.

EMachine10
09-06-2006, 03:10 PM
That might be why Brian wasn't going full speed at that ball. even if he calls off Juan, we all know that Juan is prolly going to try and make the play anyway. Then you get a collision and lose 1 of those two players at the wrong time.

southside rocks
09-06-2006, 03:14 PM
That might be why Brian wasn't going full speed at that ball. even if he calls off Juan, we all know that Juan is prolly going to try and make the play anyway. Then you get a collision and lose 1 of those two players at the wrong time.

On a team that is playing proper fundamental baseball, things shouldn't get to that point. On a ball hit to the outfield, if the CF calls the SS off of the ball, and the SS doesn't give way, and they collide, the next thing you see should be the manager, racing out there to hand the SS his ass in a bucket and a hefty monetary fine.

This goes back to what several have said -- that Anderson, for whatever reasons (age, inexperience, who knows why), does NOT seem to have control of HIS outfield.

I find it hard to believe that Ozzie hasn't noticed this.

daveeym
09-06-2006, 03:37 PM
On a team that is playing proper fundamental baseball, things shouldn't get to that point. On a ball hit to the outfield, if the CF calls the SS off of the ball, and the SS doesn't give way, and they collide, the next thing you see should be the manager, racing out there to hand the SS his ass in a bucket and a hefty monetary fine.

This goes back to what several have said -- that Anderson, for whatever reasons (age, inexperience, who knows why), does NOT seem to have control of HIS outfield.

I find it hard to believe that Ozzie hasn't noticed this. You seem to be giving uribe too much credit for having any brains and being able to call him off a ball. And if you haven't noticed the sox haven't played proper fundamental baseball for quite some time now. If it's every man for himself out there, the rookie centerfield isn't really going to be listened too. It's not as simple as saying BA should be taking charge. If no one's going to defer to him as a rookie and Ozzie isn't going to tan hides there's little BA can do about it.

southside rocks
09-06-2006, 05:03 PM
You seem to be giving uribe too much credit for having any brains and being able to call him off a ball. And if you haven't noticed the sox haven't played proper fundamental baseball for quite some time now. If it's every man for himself out there, the rookie centerfield isn't really going to be listened too. It's not as simple as saying BA should be taking charge. If no one's going to defer to him as a rookie and Ozzie isn't going to tan hides there's little BA can do about it.

That's a bad situation you describe. Almost Cub-esque. :(:

daveeym
09-06-2006, 05:14 PM
That's a bad situation you describe. Almost Cub-esque. :(: It certainly is and I hope it's not the case or the seasons lost. I personally believe that Freddy and Uribe are lost causes and both will be gone next year. The question is where the rest of the team stands and can they get it together.

southside rocks
09-06-2006, 05:30 PM
IMO more than the season is lost, if things are in that condition (which I hope they are not) ... And yes, just from comments that Ozzie has made in the papers this year, I have no trouble seeing Freddy and Juan both gone, and I think that Pods is a big question mark right now, too.

It will be interesting to see what KW does in the off-season. Certainly they're going to be needing a catcher, since Alomar is joining AARP next month, just about, and AJ can't catch 150 games. And if Juan goes, who's at short?

Ah, I sense KW deals in the making. That at least is reason to :smile: .

maurice
09-07-2006, 12:46 PM
On a ball hit to the outfield, if the CF calls the SS off of the ball, and the SS doesn't give way, and they collide, the next thing you see should be the manager, racing out there to hand the SS his ass in a bucket and a hefty monetary fine.

As I mentioned, the collision you described already happened this year, and Ozzie obviously didn't get his point across to Uribe. It'd be pretty stupid to keep running full-speed into Uribe, when you know he's going to ignore you again.

I like Juan, but Ozzie has been trying to get rid of him since day 1 (Vizquel, Furcal), has openly complained about him this year, and continues to harp on the need for more team speed. IMO, he's probably gone this offseason.

Flight #24
09-07-2006, 01:14 PM
On a team that is playing proper fundamental baseball, things shouldn't get to that point. On a ball hit to the outfield, if the CF calls the SS off of the ball, and the SS doesn't give way, and they collide, the next thing you see should be the manager, racing out there to hand the SS his ass in a bucket and a hefty monetary fine.

This goes back to what several have said -- that Anderson, for whatever reasons (age, inexperience, who knows why), does NOT seem to have control of HIS outfield.

I find it hard to believe that Ozzie hasn't noticed this.

Just IMO, but Ozzie doesn't seem to be that supportive of BA. Whether it's continuing to play Mack in CF even when Brian's getting his average up over .220 (and batting ~.275 in the 2d half), complaining about his "he needs to decide - power or speed" style, or recently - complaining about BA's total ABs and that he needs to improve offensively (despite the 2d half avg noted above and the fact that the ABs are 100% within Ozzie's control). I can believe that if Ozzie isn't pro-BA, it might make it harder for him to call off guys who don't want to listen.

CLR01
09-07-2006, 01:51 PM
That's what I think too.

I appreciate that BA has shown a lot of confidence this year with regard to his own play and his hitting troubles. He never did get down; he handled that well.

I also appreciate that it's not easy for a 24-year old rook to come in and take charge of a field that includes WS champion players, all of whom have their game way more polished than the rookie does.

But an essential part of the CF position is the field leadership, and if BA is too easy-going or too unsure or just too nice a guy to handle that, then he needs to tell Ozzie that he wants to play the corners, and let the team get a complete CF in there (and no, that's not Mack).

It's possible that Ozzie wants winter ball to not only help BA's hitting but help develop his leadership skills and his confidence in that area. I hope so, anyway.

Do you know for a fact that he doesn't have those skills? Do you know for a fact that Uribe wasn't being called off yesterday? If Uribe refuses to listen to Anderson there is not much he can do about it. What do you want him to do to take charge? Lower a shoudler, knock Uribe on his ass and stand over him and say "that's my ball, bitch"?

southside rocks
09-07-2006, 04:24 PM
Do you know for a fact that he doesn't have those skills? Do you know for a fact that Uribe wasn't being called off yesterday? If Uribe refuses to listen to Anderson there is not much he can do about it. What do you want him to do to take charge? Lower a shoudler, knock Uribe on his ass and stand over him and say "that's my ball, bitch"?
Do I know for a fact that Anderson doesn't have those skills? Of course don't know that for a fact; that's why I said "it's possible that..." and alluded to what I see on the TV and hear from the announcers.

Do I know for a fact that Uribe wasn't called off that ball? No, I don't know that he was or wasn't. It *appeared* that he wasn't called off, and Hawk certainly made it sound like Uribe wasn't called off, but I wasn't in the outfield, so I don't know.

If Uribe refuses to listen to Anderson, that's a problem for the manager and coaches. Absolutely. And if that is the case, I hope it gets addressed.

Do I want Anderson to knock Uribe on his ass? No, not particularly. I want the center-fielder to run the outfield, and it appears that BA needs some improvement in that area.

I'm sorry, you sound rather angry with my post(s). I don't know why, but if something needs correcting, I trust you'll let me know.

Jaffar
09-07-2006, 05:01 PM
I remember a play earlier in the year and if I remember it correctly it was between Anderson and Dye and you could clearly see Anderson calling the ball the whole time and Dye ended up catching teh ball with the two of them colliding and Dye looked pissed at Anderson even though when they showed the replay Anderson was clearly yelling something while chasing down the ball.

daveeym
09-07-2006, 05:27 PM
I remember a play earlier in the year and if I remember it correctly it was between Anderson and Dye and you could clearly see Anderson calling the ball the whole time and Dye ended up catching teh ball with the two of them colliding and Dye looked pissed at Anderson even though when they showed the replay Anderson was clearly yelling something while chasing down the ball. That's happened multiple times this year, paritcularly earlier in the year. Every time Dye would give BA a dirty look while I was shaking my head that it was BA's ball, and as you said, it appeared BA was calling for it. I don't think these guys are used to BA covering as much ground as he does.

maurice
09-07-2006, 08:35 PM
The BA / Dye thing happened between Rowand and Ordonez all the time, until Rowand established himself as a veteran CF. In the meanwhile, Rowand couldn't do a damn thing about it.

Grzegorz
09-07-2006, 10:22 PM
i don't blame him for playing hard. But I do blame him for playing stupid.

Great point; this has happened on more than one occasion with Uribe being the common denominator. Eventually someone will blow out their knee on an absolutely preventable situation.

Either management is not talking to this guy, or he disregards the personal safety of his teamates. This type of play should not be tolerated.

slobes
09-07-2006, 10:48 PM
Centerfielder must take control and catch that ball.

BadBobbyJenks
09-08-2006, 11:08 AM
Who cares, Uribe saved the day.

CaptainBallz
09-08-2006, 12:24 PM
Who cares, Uribe saved the day.

What day might that be? I think he better start saving moving days on his offseason calendar...

BadBobbyJenks
09-08-2006, 01:17 PM
Where is all this uribe hate coming from...

I just dont get it

maurice
09-08-2006, 01:36 PM
Like I said, I like Juan Uribe. Generally, he's an elite defensive player at a key position, but he's definitely had a few more lapses this season than last season.

I'm pretty sure that Ozzie will demand a new SS (maybe Vizquel or Rollins) for 2007. JMHO.

DumpJerry
09-08-2006, 01:50 PM
Little League infielders are told "if the ball goes over your head, it belongs to the outfielder." Uribe should know this by know. Perhaps showing him the video of Willie Harris and Maggs will enlighten him.

It is plays like this that gets a player traded in the offseason. I expect Uribe to be wearing a different uni next year. Maybe Tejada or some other SS who does not automatically swing at the first pitch will be in the Black and White next year.

thomas35forever
09-08-2006, 03:39 PM
Like I said earlier, Uribe's gotten too greedy when it comes to pop-ups.

Iguana775
09-08-2006, 04:12 PM
if the CF has a chance at it and can get to it, it's his ball. He always has first dibs on a flyball.