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Fake Chet Lemon
07-24-2006, 11:21 PM
Do we owe an apology to Carl Everett? Should we at least admit he made some good points?

He said changing the chemistry of a World Champion would come back to bite us, it seems like he knew what he was talking about.

Trading Lee for Pods sent a strong message to the team about the style of play that would be DEMANDED. Did trading a good defender who could steal an occasional base and hit an occasional home run for a slugger who only hits homeruns send the wrong message to the team? Small ball does appear to be on life support and the pitchers have relaxed some this year "knowing" they can count on the offense more.

Please do not mis-interpret this as a "Sox are done" thread, or a "Thome stinks get Rowand back" thread, or a "Williams screwed things up" thread. That's not what it was. I was all in favor of the trade and would probably do it again. But I think Kenny, and all of us have learned a thing or two.

To answer my original question, I wouldn't apologize yet. But I'd admit my criticism of Everett's comments was premature.

kittle42
07-24-2006, 11:22 PM
No.

Jjav829
07-24-2006, 11:22 PM
No. Everett is still a moron. We're losing because our pitching has been bad, not because we lost the great leadership of Willie, Everett and Frank.

Ditka311
07-24-2006, 11:23 PM
We can apologize to him when he is picked up before the deadline. :tongue:

WSox8404
07-24-2006, 11:24 PM
Uh....no. Our pitching just sucks. Doesn't have anything to do with chemistry. Carl can kiss my ass.

patbooyah
07-24-2006, 11:24 PM
carl's factoids:

1. there are no dinosaurs
2. there's no such thing as being homosexual
3. the sox aren't going to make the playoffs.

the fact that he said the sox aren't going to make the playoffs makes me feel better than anything has all day!

skobabe8
07-24-2006, 11:24 PM
Its painfully obvious that this team swings for the fences ala 2004, but so did the 2005 sox during august/september, so I dont know.

Pitching well would cure alot of what ails ya right now.

PeteWard
07-24-2006, 11:27 PM
He's always been an idiot and was the only guy on the team last year who I disliked.

So, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

southside rocks
07-24-2006, 11:29 PM
Um, unless Carl predicted this amazing year for the Tigers, then I think he was talking out of his hind end. In any other division, the Sox would be on top by a fairly comfortable margin -- okay, they'd be a half game back in the AL East tonight.

So did messing with the chemistry of the Sox cause the Tigers to come out of nowhere and play scary-incredible ball this year? If it did, then the Tigers should send their paychecks to the Sox.

Could Carl have been pressing some sour grapes there?

JB98
07-24-2006, 11:32 PM
We went through a terrible losing streak like this last season as well, despite the "leadership" of Carl. Team chemistry is not our problem, nor is lack of leadership.

DickAllen72
07-24-2006, 11:35 PM
Well, here is what Carl actually said:

"If you look at the last six world championships, it hasn't been the most talented team. It's the team that plays together. So they know each other, they sacrifice themselves for the other player. You separated a lot of that. You can't win games on paper."

What he said is true.

slobes
07-24-2006, 11:36 PM
I think our team chemistry is as good as ever.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-24-2006, 11:36 PM
Team chemistry is not our problem, nor is lack of leadership.

I don't think that statement can be said as 100% FACT, at least not yet anyway.

I think the jury is still out on this. I don't see a Brandon McCarthy breaking a chair over anyone's head any time soon. There are times you need some of that, not sure we have any of those guys.

JB98
07-24-2006, 11:45 PM
I don't think that statement can be said as 100% FACT, at least not yet anyway.

I think the jury is still open some on this. I don't see a Brandon McCarthy breaking a chair over anyone's head any time soon. There are times you need some of that, not sure we have any of those guys.

Breaking a ****ing chair doesn't help you hit the ball or make quality pitches.

Jjav829
07-24-2006, 11:50 PM
Well, here is what Carl actually said:

"If you look at the last six world championships, it hasn't been the most talented team. It's the team that plays together. So they know each other, they sacrifice themselves for the other player. You separated a lot of that. You can't win games on paper."

What he said is true.

Everett also said this.

"You don't have any voices in there to say, 'Hey, let's get this going,'" said Everett, now a designated hitter with the Mariners. "[Jim] Thome is a nice guy, but I think it's early, Thome will be feeling around first. They have a nice team, but at the same time, who knows? They may read this article and say, 'You know Carl '"

"Being me and being honest, I'm going to say, no, they can't repeat," Everett said. "They are not going to have the same chemistry. (Aaron) Rowand, myself, even Willie (Harris) and Frank (Thomas), we all had a presence in there, and now the new guys will have to fit in. You are bringing in guys to fit in."

"No, [Konerko] is not vocal," Everett said. "Neither was Frank, but I considered him one of the leaders. That captain stuff is overrated. I would never pick one guy as a captain. I wouldn't want that pressure on me. I wouldn't want to wear the 'C' on my shoulder. You see guys are wearing that thing reluctantly. That should stay in hockey.

SpartanSoxFan
07-24-2006, 11:56 PM
Apologize to a has-been who was bitter about his departure and wanted to take some parting shots at his former team through the media???

HELL NO!!! :angry:

chisoxmike
07-25-2006, 12:12 AM
Do we owe an apology to Carl Everett?


:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Almost as good as the half-assed "I have an idea for a trade..." threads.

lumpyspun
07-25-2006, 12:14 AM
I watched Carl try to bunt tonight in the M's game. Believe me, the guy can't play small ball, and getting rid of him had nothing to do with not being able to play small ball right now. His bunt attempt was god awful.

Deuce
07-25-2006, 12:16 AM
I'll apologize to Carl when he pays the White Sox back his salary for last year. He sucked, big time. The team won in spite of his performance (or lack there of), not because of it. Besides, it's hard to buy this guy's arguments about "chemistry" when he doesn't have the basics of "earth science" down.

billyvsox
07-25-2006, 12:19 AM
Do we owe an apology to Carl Everett? Should we at least admit he made some good points?

He said changing the chemistry of a World Champion would come back to bite us, it seems like he knew what he was talking about.

Trading Lee for Pods sent a strong message to the team about the style of play that would be DEMANDED. Did trading a good defender who could steal an occasional base and hit an occasional home run for a slugger who only hits homeruns send the wrong message to the team? Small ball does appear to be on life support and the pitchers have relaxed some this year "knowing" they can count on the offense more.

Please do not mis-interpret this as a "Sox are done" thread, or a "Thome stinks get Rowand back" thread, or a "Williams screwed things up" thread. That's not what it was. I was all in favor of the trade and would probably do it again. But I think Kenny, and all of us have learned a thing or two.

To answer my original question, I wouldn't apologize yet. But I'd admit my criticism of Everett's comments was premature.

I concur...Crazy Carl is duly missed by me. Last year we changed the team and style of play, and won a championship. This year we returned to the same form as 2004, 2003. Anyone remember the last hit-and-run we had. I know the Twins had 3 just tonight alone. After BA's double and the bunt by Pods, I was certain Iguchi would squeeze home the 3rd run (righty-righy situation with a good bunter at the plate and speed on third). But Oz lets him swing away and yet another dreaded pop-up.

Tragg
07-25-2006, 12:21 AM
Apologize to Everett? - for what? What did the Sox do to him?

This is so ridiculous.

These baby ballplayers with their 7 figure salaries need to grow some skin.

People routinely get fired, laid off, dog-cussed and screwed over in innumerable ways by their bosses for 40K. But the real issue is whether a multiple 7 figure ballplayer, who was fortunate enough to ride the wagon to a world series, feels smited? I dont' think so.

ON the substantive issue, no Everett is not the problem with this team, offensively or defensively. We do appear to be in that swing for the fences mentality that plagued us for years (closer observers may be able to verify that or say it's BS - I see only a few games).

DickAllen72
07-25-2006, 12:32 AM
I'll apologize to Carl when he pays the White Sox back his salary for last year. He sucked, big time. The team won in spite of his performance (or lack there of), not because of it. Besides, it's hard to buy this guy's arguments about "chemistry" when he doesn't have the basics of "earth science" down.

Obviously you forgot about all the key RBI's Carl had the first half as well as in the last week of the season when they won the title.

BTW, Carl was a Twins killer.

Anyway, I have nothing to apologize for because I never wronged Carl. I love the guy.

Deuce
07-25-2006, 12:45 AM
Obviously you forgot about all the key RBI's Carl had the first half as well as in the last week of the season when they won the title.It's hard to remember all those "key RBIs" when he was sucking up a storm for most of the season with a .251 average, 11 GiDP and 99 strikeouts.

BTW, Carl was a Twins killer.And Manos was a Cubs Killer. I'm not apologizing to him either.

Deuce

The Dude
07-25-2006, 01:00 AM
no ****ing Way!

do we owe Timo, Viz, El Duque, Rowand, Cliff, Widger, Willie, Blum, Shingo, etc. an apology for getting rid of them as well?? *****:rolleyes:

Chips
07-25-2006, 01:56 AM
no ****ing Way!

do we owe Timo, Viz, El Duque, Rowand, Cliff, Widger, Willie, Blum, Shingo, etc. an apology for getting rid of them as well?? *****:rolleyes:



Right on.

We owe them nothing.

fquaye149
07-25-2006, 03:29 AM
Do we owe an apology to Carl Everett? Should we at least admit he made some good points?

He said changing the chemistry of a World Champion would come back to bite us, it seems like he knew what he was talking about.


LOL HAHAHAHHAA

ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME?

Let me get this straight: if we had Carl, Timo and Willie Harris that would mean Buehrle wouldn't be tanking it, Garcia would gain back his 5 MPH and Vazquez would know how to prevent the big inning?

Let me get this straight: You think we would be better with Carl, Timo and Willie Harris instead of Mackowiack, Cintron, and Thome.

Once again, let me get this straight....

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

seriously though, I want to get this straight....

fquaye149
07-25-2006, 03:31 AM
I concur...Crazy Carl is duly missed by me. Last year we changed the team and style of play, and won a championship. This year we returned to the same form as 2004, 2003. Anyone remember the last hit-and-run we had. I know the Twins had 3 just tonight alone. After BA's double and the bunt by Pods, I was certain Iguchi would squeeze home the 3rd run (righty-righy situation with a good bunter at the plate and speed on third). But Oz lets him swing away and yet another dreaded pop-up.

take a mother****ing prozac.

yes, you're right. this is the same team as 2004 and 2003. you're right. we lose 6 out of 7 games after the break and all of a sudden the team with the second best record in baseball is the 2004 and 2003 Sox who didn't even come close to contending for a playoff spot.

good point.

i'm glad your opinions have no ACTUAL effect on the team itself. can you imagine if YOU were general manager?

WHITE FLAG 2006!!!!

:o::o::o::o:

BeviBall!
07-25-2006, 08:55 AM
I love Carl, but we don't owe him an apology.

Frontman
07-25-2006, 09:03 AM
Well, here is what Carl actually said:

"If you look at the last six world championships, it hasn't been the most talented team. It's the team that plays together. So they know each other, they sacrifice themselves for the other player. You separated a lot of that. You can't win games on paper."

What he said is true.

Of course its true. Granted, he left out the part that he felt HE needed to be on said piece of paper........

No, no apologies required. Honestly, I'll take my chances with this current club versus getting him, Willie, and Frank back.

Take a look at how Politte and Widge handled their departure, then look at Carl's and Frank's. The first two had class; the latter two couldn't help but take pot shots. Besides, would Carl be any help at all to Burhele, Garcia, and Vasquez to get their pitching over? I doubt it.


Now, if we could just get Rowand back.....

Fake Chet Lemon
07-25-2006, 09:15 AM
This isn't an "is Carl a good player this year (or even last year)" thread.

I'm just asking if he was correct on the comments he made that we all ripped him for. He was.

jdm2662
07-25-2006, 10:43 AM
The great Dennis Rodman had the best quote about chemistry:

"Chemistry is just a class you take in high school or college."

Being buddies in the clubhouse is not going to help Buherle get out of his slump, Freddy to get his fastball back, and Vasquez having some stones when he gets into a jam. The A's in the 70s couldn't stand each other, and it didn't affect their dynasnty.

MISoxfan
07-25-2006, 10:59 AM
take a mother****ing prozac.

yes, you're right. this is the same team as 2004 and 2003. you're right. we lose 6 out of 7 games after the break and all of a sudden the team with the second best record in baseball is the 2004 and 2003 Sox who didn't even come close to contending for a playoff spot.

good point.

i'm glad your opinions have no ACTUAL effect on the team itself. can you imagine if YOU were general manager?

WHITE FLAG 2006!!!!

:o::o::o::o:

The 2004 and 2003 Sox were both close to contending for a playoff spot and both were leading the Central at this time in the season. They blew it at the end, but they were definatelly in the thick of things in July and August.

downstairs
07-25-2006, 11:05 AM
Well, here is what Carl actually said:

"If you look at the last six world championships, it hasn't been the most talented team. It's the team that plays together. So they know each other, they sacrifice themselves for the other player. You separated a lot of that. You can't win games on paper."

What he said is true.

Yeah, and if you look at the past six World Series, five of them have had Wild Card teams playing.

Right now the White Sox are leading the Wild Card race.

Seattle is 11.5 games behind.

Sour Grapes.

southside rocks
07-25-2006, 02:18 PM
Well, here is what Carl actually said:

"If you look at the last six world championships, it hasn't been the most talented team. It's the team that plays together. So they know each other, they sacrifice themselves for the other player. You separated a lot of that. You can't win games on paper."

What he said is true.

Isn't this the same issue that Ozzie is trying to address regarding the beanball/retaliation? Maybe Ozzie is telling us the same thing that Carl said?

Fake Chet Lemon
07-25-2006, 05:38 PM
Isn't this the same issue that Ozzie is trying to address regarding the beanball/retaliation? Maybe Ozzie is telling us the same thing that Carl said?

and how fast is Ozzie's flame going to burn out of the burden is ALWAYS on him to ALWAYS be the leader for every situation? That will lead to a short managerial career via burnout.

fquaye149
07-25-2006, 06:03 PM
The 2004 and 2003 Sox were both close to contending for a playoff spot and both were leading the Central at this time in the season. They blew it at the end, but they were definatelly in the thick of things in July and August.

And the 2005 Sox almost blew things in August but they didn't.

No one can MAKE our pittchers pitch like they did last year. And no one is going to trade or give us pitchers who pitched like our pitchers pitched last year.

So what's your point?

And btw, we have a superior lineup to the one that couldn't cut it in '03. And we probably would have won the division in '04 if Frank AND Maggs didn't go down.

So again I ask: what's your point?

Daver
07-25-2006, 06:08 PM
Since when does Carl Everratt pitch?

This is the exact same as the rough August the Sox had last year, where they play a lot of games in a row against good teams, seems to mean they managed to survive that just fine.

STRETCH!!!
07-25-2006, 08:05 PM
This isn't an "is Carl a good player this year (or even last year)" thread.

I'm just asking if he was correct on the comments he made that we all ripped him for. He was.

No he's not correct. The chemistry is as good as last year .. much easier to win last year when only giving up 2 or 3 runs every 9 out of 10 games. You can't say the chemistry this year raised the team ERA.

To borrow a phrase from a 1992 political campaign, "Its the pitching, stupid"

PS: Please know I'm not calling anyone stupid - this is just how the phrase ends.

1951Campbell
07-25-2006, 08:56 PM
Man, the Carl-bashing here brings back memories of Boston. Everyone loved him when he was spanking the Twins or yelling at Garner or telling the naysayers to shut their mouths, but he makes some off-the-cuff comments and it's hey, throw the crazy guy under the bus.

Carl isn't owed an apology, but geez, reign it in some, folks.

fquaye149
07-25-2006, 11:16 PM
Man, the Carl-bashing here brings back memories of Boston. Everyone loved him when he was spanking the Twins or yelling at Garner or telling the naysayers to shut their mouths, but he makes some off-the-cuff comments and it's hey, throw the crazy guy under the bus.

Carl isn't owed an apology, but geez, reign it in some, folks.

You kidding me? The only Carl "bashing" is some poster's countering some wild-ass claims that "Carl was so clutch and we aren't clutch" with statistics showing how below average Carl really was offensively last year.

The only other thing that could be PERCEIVED as Carl bashing is people saying that we don't owe him an apology since NOT HAVING CARL IS CLEARLY NOT THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM.

Look, I love Carl. I honestly do. I don't begrudge him for saying what he said, even. I feel for him. I feel like he loved Chicago and loved our team and played his ass off for us. I feel like he says what he feels and I respect him for that. But Carl is wrong--we made this team better by dumping him, Timo, and Willie. We may or not have made this team better by getting rid of Rowand. I don't know. But the fact is, Carl didn't mention Rowand. He didn't mention El Duque. He didn't mention Vizcaino. He mentioned him Timo and Willie. And that's laughable, as much as I love Carl.

DannyCaterFan
09-05-2006, 10:21 PM
You have to appreciate the job Jim Thome has done for us this season, particularly in the first half. I have to wonder though, if his prescence in the lineup makes the Sox more of a depend on the home run team? I know we had over 200 long balls last season, but we also had a guy in the lineup by the name of Rowand that would bunt every now and then and do whatever was necessary to get on base. The Sox have gotten away from doing whatever it takes to win, all those little things. I am not so sure that having Rowand instead of Thome would not have been better.
Part of the problem is Podsednik not getting on base, but the rest of the team just seems to swing for the home runs. Tonight's game was a perfect example. Both Crede and Konerko faced situations with runners on third and less than 2 out, and both hit hard balls to the left side into double plays. Both of them should have taken that slow curve into right field.
I know I am venting a bit, and maybe the Sox will revert back to their early season form by out-slugging everyone, but right now they are playing tight! I never expected this from the World Champs! Whatever happened to Ozzie Ball? :angry:

Fake Chet Lemon
09-05-2006, 10:25 PM
Everyone still want to disagree with Crazy Carl?

Trading a grinder and clubhouse leader like Rowand for a Basher non-leader like Thome was riskier than we all thought. Sorry for bashing you Carl, you were right.

jenn2080
09-05-2006, 10:28 PM
Im not even going to waste my time pulling up the this thread sucks pic.


This thread blows and sucks

BiggestFan14
09-05-2006, 10:28 PM
They have always been dependent on the home run ball, they have never really been a real small ball team, not even last year. The seven consecutive 200 homerun seasons proves that, and all the Sox hitters are trying to hit them and only them lately. They have tried to bunt, they usually just stink at it. The little things just don't happen for this years team.

By they way, Rowand didn't have a good season. Great trade!

jenn2080
09-05-2006, 10:29 PM
Everyone still want to disagree with Crazy Carl?

Trading a grinder and clubhouse leader like Rowand for a Basher non-leader like Thome was riskier than we all thought. Sorry for bashing you Carl, you were right.


thanks for always getting out Carl. Because you struck out alot we didnt have to see Paulie hit into DP.

jenn2080
09-05-2006, 10:32 PM
They have always been dependent on the home run ball, they have never really been a real small ball team, not even last year. The seven consecutive 200 homerun seasons proves that, and all the Sox hitters are trying to hit them and only them lately. They have tried to bunt, they usually just stink at it. The little things just don't happen for this years team.

By they way, Rowand didn't have a good season. Great trade!


Rowand didnt have that great of a season is part of him being out due to injuries. Im pretty sure he would not have been out like he was had he still be on the Sox since he would not have had a Phillies wall to run into and Utley to fall over in Wrigley. Either way he brought great energy to the team...something they are lacking.

chisoxmike
09-05-2006, 10:33 PM
:threadsucks

Yes, he was and is worth it. Thome carried this team in April and pretty much responsible for our great first half.

Dont' knock Thome, knock the pitching.

DannyCaterFan
09-05-2006, 10:33 PM
Im not even going to waste my time pulling up the this thread sucks pic.


This thread blows and sucks

Obviously, you're in love with Thome! Hey listen, I would have made that trade too. We needed a good left handed hitter and Jim has given us that. Just wonder if having him in the lineup changed the mindset of the team.

zmz723
09-05-2006, 10:34 PM
:threadblows:

jenn2080
09-05-2006, 10:35 PM
Obviously, you're in love with Thome! Hey listen, I would have made that trade too. We needed a good left handed hitter and Jim has given us that. Just wonder if having him in the lineup changed the mindset of the team.


No in fact I am not in love with Thome. I think he is a great part of the team. You should read the post game thread.

Chips
09-05-2006, 10:35 PM
:threadblows:

:threadblows:

:threadblows:

It blows that much.

DickAllen72
09-05-2006, 10:37 PM
thanks for always getting out Carl. Because you struck out alot we didnt have to see Paulie hit into DP.

:rolleyes:

BeviBall!
09-05-2006, 10:37 PM
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/614/threadsuckky9.jpg

sox1970
09-05-2006, 10:37 PM
Everyone has their mind on the offense right now as a reason why the Sox won't make the playoffs. The bottom line is they've had a dramatic drop in quality starts since MEMORIAL DAY. They got away with it in June when they bashed NL teams all month. Then July came, and reality struck.

No pitching. No playoffs. These last few losses are incidental.

BiggestFan14
09-05-2006, 10:39 PM
Rowand didnt have that great of a season is part of him being out due to injuries. Im pretty sure he would not have been out like he was had he still be on the Sox since he would not have had a Phillies wall to run into and Utley to fall over in Wrigley. Either way he brought great energy to the team...something they are lacking.Yeah, the injuries were the main thing I were talking about.

But still, we can't keep dwelling on the trade. Someone should add Rowand to the language filter.

SoxShirt
09-05-2006, 10:39 PM
Yes, he was and is worth it. Thome carried this team in April and pretty much responsible for our great first half.

Dont' knock Thome, knock the pitching.
The pitching? The pitching has been fine the last couple of games. It's the offense that sucks right now. I agree that they should stop trying to hit homeruns, but, they're probably not going to, so I guess we're just going to have to put up with it. :(:

Chips
09-05-2006, 10:39 PM
Everyone still want to disagree with Crazy Carl?

Yes, the season isn't over with yet.

Trading a grinder and clubhouse leader like Rowand for a Basher non-leader like Thome was riskier than we all thought. Sorry for bashing you Carl, you were right.

****ing Thome is bringing this team down

JB98
09-05-2006, 10:40 PM
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/614/threadsuckky9.jpg


I second that emotion....

TommyJohn
09-05-2006, 10:40 PM
Everyone still want to disagree with Crazy Carl?

Trading a grinder and clubhouse leader like Rowand for a Basher non-leader like Thome was riskier than we all thought. Sorry for bashing you Carl, you were right.

If I see one more Rowand love post I'll go out of my mind!

Chips
09-05-2006, 10:42 PM
If I see one more Rowand love post I'll go out of my mind!
Some people can't accept that he is off the team.

I love posting this picture:

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/chisox716/Rowand1.gif

JB98
09-05-2006, 10:42 PM
The pitching? The pitching has been fine the last couple of games. It's the offense that sucks right now. I agree that they should stop trying to hit homeruns, but, they're probably not going to, so I guess we're just going to have to put up with it. :(:

The pitching has been fine the last couple of games. But generally speaking, it has blown goats for over two months now. Please don't make me cite the painful statistics.

jenn2080
09-05-2006, 10:42 PM
Yeah, the injuries were the main thing I were talking about.

But still, we can't keep dwelling on the trade. Someone should add Rowand to the language filter.


If the injuries are what you are talking about then your post is irrelivant since it is obvious he wouldnt run into a wall or fall over utley on another team.

SoxShirt
09-05-2006, 10:44 PM
The pitching has been fine the last couple of games. But generally speaking, it has blown goats for over two months now. Please don't make me cite the painful statistics.
Oh, I know the pitching has been bad for a long time, but I was talking about right now... boo for the offense. (Oops I guess that was my fault for not specifying :redface:)

BiggestFan14
09-05-2006, 10:44 PM
If the injuries are what you are talking about then your post is irrelivant since it is obvious he wouldnt run into a wall or fall over utley on another team.I was not trying to relivant, just stating that one of the two had a better year. Nothing more than that.

whitesoxwilkes
09-05-2006, 10:48 PM
Everyone still want to disagree with Crazy Carl?

Trading a grinder and clubhouse leader like Rowand for a Basher non-leader like Thome was riskier than we all thought. Sorry for bashing you Carl, you were right.
Huh? A non-leader? For ****'s sake. One of the first things Paul Konerko said in ST was how it was great it was to finally have a leader...a guy who players felt comfortable talking to about hitting.

**** me, next thing I know is you'll all be pining for the return of Frank Thomas, who got into a ****ING FISTFIGHT with a teammate on the bus.

0o0o0
09-05-2006, 10:48 PM
Thome carried this team in April and pretty much responsible for our great first half.

Thome was not "pretty much responsible for our great first half." Yes, he was hitting the **** out of the ball. So was most of the lineup. Of course the trade was worth it, but no need to put him on such a pedestal.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-05-2006, 10:48 PM
YES it was worth it!!!!!

The failure was Kenny not adding any leadership to replace Everett and Rowand. That's not Thome's fault. He just isn't a leader, that's fine. You just hit HRs Jim, it's Kenny's job to add some leadership elsewhere. A Veteran LF with power next year would be a good start.

Shouldn't AJ be our Captain anyway?

100 Year Itch
09-05-2006, 10:51 PM
While Thome is certainly not to blame for the apparent strategic shift from the get them over, get them in philosophy that defined 2005, to the basher, station-to-station baseball 2006 has entailed; it is understandable that his presence is generally perceived as iconic of said shift in philosophy.

FarWestChicago
09-05-2006, 10:55 PM
Everyone still want to disagree with Crazy Carl? Yes. Claiming a team other than the Sox would win the Series this year is hardly a prediction. The fact you think that's an amazing prognostication means you don't understand statistics or probabilities at all.

Lip Man 1
09-05-2006, 10:59 PM
Jim is doing what he's been paid to do. I don't have an issue with acquiring him. What's killed the Sox is the top two and bottom two hitters in the lineup have done very little this season. Compounding the fault is that fact that when called upon to steal bases, sacrifice, get guys over specifically for the big boppers they have failed as a unit miserably.

Two of the four guys usually there have double figure home run totals but that's not what they are being paid for.

Lip

EndemicSox
09-05-2006, 11:00 PM
This isn't football. Baseball is basically a man v man game. Chemistry, good or bad, can have an effect on certain individuals who are mentally weak, but IMO, its doesn't mean much at all.

Dibbs
09-05-2006, 11:00 PM
I think Kenny got in way over his head this past offseason, but a lot of people will never admit that. I have never changed my stance on that. The Javy trade was horrible. B-M-A-C should be starting....and as good as Thome has been this year, I sure wish we still had Big Frank...

JB98
09-05-2006, 11:01 PM
Here we go again. :rolleyes:

jenn2080
09-05-2006, 11:01 PM
I think Kenny got in way over his head this past offseason, but a lot of people will never admit that. I have never changed my stance on that. The Javy trade was horrible. B-M-A-C should be starting....and as good as Thome has been this year, I sure wish we still had Big Frank...

ya frank was awesome from the DL....and yes i do know how he played those few weeks he was actually back

Chips
09-05-2006, 11:04 PM
I think Kenny got in way over his head this past offseason, but a lot of people will never admit that. I have never changed my stance on that. The Javy trade was horrible. B-M-A-C should be starting....and as good as Thome has been this year, I sure wish we still had Big Frank...

Assembling a team that is more talented in really getting in way over one's head. :rolleyes:

TornLabrum
09-05-2006, 11:05 PM
If the injuries are what you are talking about then your post is irrelivant since it is obvious he wouldnt run into a wall or fall over utley on another team.

But since we don't live in the parallel universe in which the Sox elected not to trade Rowand, and since we have no way of communicating with that universe, we'll never know if he would have injured himself playing for the Etihw Xos.

JB98
09-05-2006, 11:06 PM
Would we rather have Rowand/Everett/Frank as opposed to Thome?

Has anyone else noticed that we have this same stupid argument going on in about four different threads now? :rolleyes:

SpartanSoxFan
09-05-2006, 11:08 PM
Hey Fake Chet Lemon,

Isn't this the same Crazy Carl who got his ass released because he bitched and whined to Mike Hargrove over playing time even though he sucked at the plate and can't do anything other than DH??? Perfect spokesman for team chemistry.
:threadblows:

samram
09-05-2006, 11:12 PM
Damn you, Jim Thome!!!!!!!

If only we had five Aaron Rowands and four Scotty Pods in our lineup, all would be well. Grinder ball and what not.:rolleyes:

JB98
09-05-2006, 11:14 PM
Damn you, Jim Thome!!!!!!!

If only we had five Aaron Rowands and four Scotty Pods in our lineup, all would be well. Grinder ball and what not.:rolleyes:


Our team batting average would be .250 or .260 at best, but think of all the strikeout records we'd set!

:supernana: :supernana:

spiffie
09-05-2006, 11:15 PM
YES it was worth it!!!!!

The failure was Kenny not adding any leadership to replace Everett and Rowand. That's not Thome's fault. He just isn't a leader, that's fine. You just hit HRs Jim, it's Kenny's job to add some leadership elsewhere. A Veteran LF with power next year would be a good start.

Shouldn't AJ be our Captain anyway?
When someone shows me how having a better "leader" would make our pitchers not be 3/4 of a run worse than last year, or how an effective "leader" would have made our bullpen solid enough not to blow more than enough games to make up our current deficit on Detroit, or how a better "leader" would make Podsednik's groin as healthy as it was the first half of last year, then I'll listen to this argument. Until then, you might as well have said the problem with the Sox is that they don't have enough fairy dust, or they need more unicorns, or they pissed off Jobu, since those explanations carry as much weight.

jenn2080
09-05-2006, 11:15 PM
Would we rather have Rowand/Everett/Frank as opposed to Thome?

Has anyone else noticed that we have this same stupid argument going on in about four different threads now? :rolleyes:


no shock there

samram
09-05-2006, 11:16 PM
Our team batting average would be .250 or .260 at best, but think of all the strikeout records we'd set!

:supernana: :supernana:

Strike-outs looking at that. Wouldn't even have to waste money on foul balls and every game would be over in 2:15. Make it happen, KW!

JB98
09-05-2006, 11:19 PM
Strike-outs looking at that. Wouldn't even have to waste money on foul balls and every game would be over in 2:15. Make it happen, KW!

Let's see here. Five Aaron Rowands. That means we'd have five guys fishing at sliders down and in the dirt. Four Scotty Pods. All looking at a breaking ball for strike three.

Five Aaron Rowands, Four Scotty Pods.....

It's sort of like the Twelve Days of Christmas.:D:

Chips
09-05-2006, 11:20 PM
YES it was worth it!!!!!

The failure was Kenny not adding any leadership to replace Everett and Rowand. That's not Thome's fault. He just isn't a leader, that's fine. You just hit HRs Jim, it's Kenny's job to add some leadership elsewhere. A Veteran LF with power next year would be a good start.

Shouldn't AJ be our Captain anyway?

Carl Everett is a leader and Jim Thome isn't?

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/TheDarkGundam/BigEyeRoll.jpg

samram
09-05-2006, 11:23 PM
Let's see here. Five Aaron Rowands. That means we'd have five guys fishing at sliders down and in the dirt. Four Scotty Pods. All looking at a breaking ball for strike three.

Five Aaron Rowands, Four Scotty Pods.....

It's sort of like the Twelve Days of Christmas.:D:

3 Willie Harrises, 2 Chris Widgers, 1 Orlando Hernandeeeeeeeeeez!:D:

jenn2080
09-05-2006, 11:24 PM
Let's see here. Five Aaron Rowands. That means we'd have five guys fishing at sliders down and in the dirt. Four Scotty Pods. All looking at a breaking ball for strike three.

Five Aaron Rowands, Four Scotty Pods.....

It's sort of like the Twelve Days of Christmas.:D:


And OOONNNEEE Solid win

JB98
09-05-2006, 11:27 PM
3 Willie Harrises, 2 Chris Widgers, 1 Orlando Hernandeeeeeeeeeez!:D:

With Rowand, Pods, Willie, Widge and Duque, at least we wouldn't have to worry about so many of those pesky solo home runs that have been killing this team. :D:

Fake Chet Lemon
09-05-2006, 11:31 PM
When someone shows me how having a better "leader" would make our pitchers not be 3/4 of a run worse than last year, or how an effective "leader" would have made our bullpen solid enough not to blow more than enough games to make up our current deficit on Detroit, or how a better "leader" would make Podsednik's groin as healthy as it was the first half of last year, then I'll listen to this argument. Until then, you might as well have said the problem with the Sox is that they don't have enough fairy dust, or they need more unicorns, or they pissed off Jobu, since those explanations carry as much weight.

It shocks me that there are people who think leadership in sports is meaningless. Talk to anyone who has won anything. My guess? They would disagree with you.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-05-2006, 11:35 PM
Hey Fake Chet Lemon,

Isn't this the same Crazy Carl who got his ass released because he bitched and whined to Mike Hargrove over playing time even though he sucked at the plate and can't do anything other than DH??? Perfect spokesman for team chemistry.


AJ is a pain in the arse too, Ozzie has said it publically. I'll keep him on my team though.

Again, my original point in Post #1:

We ripped Carl when he said Kenny may regret the makeover. Did we rip him prematurely? I think yes, Carl had a point. That's all my point was.

JRIG
09-05-2006, 11:36 PM
Since the All-Star Break, Pods OBP has been .283. AJ is at .274. Uribe at .257.

Getting Neifi Perez-like production from 3 slots in the lineup, especially the guy getting the highest number of at bats on the roster, has been the downfall of the offense the the second half.

No amount of small-ball, or bunts, or hitting to the other side, or Carl Everett leadership would help fix this.

The home runs have been solo home runs because no one has been on base. This is not Jim Thome's fault. He's getting on base at a .400 clip.

Brian26
09-05-2006, 11:38 PM
The biggest loss on the Sox roster this year is not Rowand, Everett, or Frank. It's El Duque. For a number of reasons, I wish we could have him back.

JB98
09-05-2006, 11:38 PM
AJ is a pain in the arse too, Ozzie has said it publically. I'll keep him on my team though.

Again, my original point in Post #1:

We ripped Carl when he said Kenny may regret the makeover. Did we rip him prematurely? I think yes, Carl had a point. That's all my point was.

Carl lost credibility with me when he stated that Willie Harris was one of the leaders on last year's team. Ozzie commented on that, pointing out that if Carl thinks Willie Harris is a leader, then Carl doesn't know what leadership is.

thomas35forever
09-05-2006, 11:42 PM
Of course he was. Frank's only put up half the numbers Thome has. He's done a tremendous job filling The Big Hurt's shoes.

samram
09-05-2006, 11:43 PM
Since the All-Star Break, Pods OBP has been .283. AJ is at .274. Uribe at .257.

Getting Neifi Perez-like production from 3 slots in the lineup, especially the guy getting the highest number of at bats on the roster, has been the downfall of the offense the the second half.

No amount of small-ball, or bunts, or hitting to the other side, or Carl Everett leadership would help fix this.

The home runs have been solo home runs because no one has been on base. This is not Jim Thome's fault. He's getting on base at a .400 clip.

Are you implying Neifi Perez is not good?

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:D1uK0H0NVi-tqM:http://www.speakingofsports.com/speakers/images/Baker.jpg
News to me.

TornLabrum
09-05-2006, 11:45 PM
Let's see here. Five Aaron Rowands. That means we'd have five guys fishing at sliders down and in the dirt. Four Scotty Pods. All looking at a breaking ball for strike three.

Five Aaron Rowands, Four Scotty Pods.....

It's sort of like the Twelve Days of Christmas.:D:

Three Robbie Alomars...

The Dude
09-05-2006, 11:47 PM
Why the hell is this dead thread back after a few months?

THIS THREAD BLEW THEN AND ****ING BLOWS HARDER NOW!!!!

Yeah great job Rowand is doing out for the season for the Phillies. Wow, his OBP was great when he was playing. I don't think I will ever understand the brains of Rowand man-lovers.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

MeteorsSox4367
09-05-2006, 11:48 PM
Two Sandy Alomar Jrs...

Was Thome worth it? Seriously?

Yep.