PDA

View Full Version : Who's Garcia getting traded to in the offseason?


Pasqua's Posers
09-04-2006, 08:41 AM
I say it's gonna be to the Mets. I can't speculate who they would get in return, but I think it's doubtful he will go to an A.L. team. Either way, the clown needs to go.
:angry:

Let's get our **** together and put some distance between us and the Twins so the last series of the year DOESN'T determine who gets into the playoffs...

jabrch
09-04-2006, 09:12 AM
I say it's gonna be to the Mets. I can't speculate who they would get in return, but I think it's doubtful he will go to an A.L. team. Either way, the clown needs to go.

Clown?

The more popular the Sox get, the more I wish we weren't so popular.

Pasqua's Posers
09-04-2006, 09:14 AM
What do you mean by that?

jabrch
09-04-2006, 09:24 AM
What do you mean by that?

I mean that it is ridiculous to see a new thread every day hurling insults at our pitchers.

Garcia has a 5.10 ERA in USCF. That's not terrible. No - he hasn't been great, but he hasn't been terrible.

Buehrle is having a year well below his standards. Contreras has been struggling a bit since the break. Javy has a 5 ERA too. But these guys are not "clowns" and I am tired of seeing a new thread every day to bash them.

Despite all the bellyaching and bitching that our new-found members bring to us, we are still have the 4th best record in all of baseball. Despite these "clowns" we still would be winning 3 of the 6 divisions in baseball. Despite how terrible I keep hearing these guys are, we are still in a position where, if the season ended today, we'd be in the post season.

Frankly, I'm tired of the bitching. It is like some people just discovered baseball last October.

soxinem1
09-04-2006, 09:37 AM
I mean that it is ridiculous to see a new thread every day hurling insults at our pitchers.

Garcia has a 5.10 ERA in USCF. That's not terrible. No - he hasn't been great, but he hasn't been terrible.

Buehrle is having a year well below his standards. Contreras has been struggling a bit since the break. Javy has a 5 ERA too. But these guys are not "clowns" and I am tired of seeing a new thread every day to bash them.

Despite all the bellyaching and bitching that our new-found members bring to us, we are still have the 4th best record in all of baseball. Despite these "clowns" we still would be winning 3 of the 6 divisions in baseball. Despite how terrible I keep hearing these guys are, we are still in a position where, if the season ended today, we'd be in the post season.

Frankly, I'm tired of the bitching. It is like some people just discovered baseball last October.

While I agree with your discontent about the player/team bashing, the frustrations with the starters is warranted, because an ERA of 5.00 is not acceptable, especially since this group of five accounts for nearly half of the team's payroll.

Your other points are quite valid. This trade speculation and ripping of players is unwarranted. As roller-coaster as they have been, it's not like Jaime Navarro has been reaquired.

Though I did not begin posting on this board until last November, I have been a White Sox devoutee since the 1970's. Yet is it quite obvious that the newer posters vent like there is a flat wheel on the bandwagon.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 09:45 AM
Ok - what rotation would you swap ours for, striaght up, in the AL today? (and by today, I mean the guys currently slated to go the next 5 days)

Front to back - 5 man deep....

Not NYY or Boston. Look at their starters.

Minny has Santana - and then a lot of crap. Even with Liriano, it's still not a great 5 man rotation.

Detroit has a good 4 man rotation - I'd take it. Oakland maybe?

For all the bitching, what rotations in the AL would you swap ours for, straight up, for the rest of the regular season?

Baseball has been played for a long long time before last October. Sometimes the posting here leads me to believe people expect CGs from every starter every time out.

Pasqua's Posers
09-04-2006, 09:49 AM
Valid points-but I am beyond my wits end with Garcia. It seems like he is up there "throwing" and not pitching. I agree that we would be tops 3/6 divisions in baseball, but frankly, that is not acceptable to me.

I live and die with this team-everyday. Winning the World Series only made that thirst for success and frustration at failure burn an even bigger flame inside.

For you to insinuate that I am a 'casual' or 'bandwagon' fan who came on board last year couldn't be further from the truth...

Either way, if you are tired of hearing folks bark about the starters inconsistency or what have you, then the solution is simple: don't come to the board.

I got tired of hearing the negative banter on the radio the day after a Sox loss. You know what I did? I decided to not listen to talk radio on days after a Sox loss. It has helped me and perhaps not coming to the board on those same types of days (i.e. a loss day) can help you.

Either way, we are all tried and true White Sox fans who want the same thing: another World Series.

Here's to achieving that goal again this year -whatever it takes...

:gulp:

munchman33
09-04-2006, 10:33 AM
Clown?



If you don't think Garcia deserves that title, I suggest you listen to his postgame interviews after he loses. There's one just about every five games.

soxinem1
09-04-2006, 10:44 AM
Ok - what rotation would you swap ours for, striaght up, in the AL today? (and by today, I mean the guys currently slated to go the next 5 days)

Front to back - 5 man deep....

Not NYY or Boston. Look at their starters.

Minny has Santana - and then a lot of crap. Even with Liriano, it's still not a great 5 man rotation.

Detroit has a good 4 man rotation - I'd take it. Oakland maybe?

For all the bitching, what rotations in the AL would you swap ours for, straight up, for the rest of the regular season?

Baseball has been played for a long long time before last October. Sometimes the posting here leads me to believe people expect CGs from every starter every time out.

I never said I wanted to get rid of the group, but I'll take the A's rotation.

Since the break, this group has given up more than five runs per nine innings.

I think our rotation may be better in the playoffs, should we get there. But they have all been out of sync for some time.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 10:49 AM
Either way, if you are tired of hearing folks bark about the starters inconsistency or what have you, then the solution is simple: don't come to the board.

Actually, there is a much easier solution where I wouldn't have to deprive myself from the good parts of this board. The IGNORE feature is a wonderful way to not deal with reading the repeated and non-sensical posts when they come from the same people day in and day out.


I can't name one rotation in baseball that has 5 better starters than Garcia. I'm not even sure if there are many teams with 4 better than him. Many don't even have 3.

If you don't think Garcia deserves that title, I suggest you listen to his postgame interviews after he loses. There's one just about every five games.

By that definition, nearly ever athlete is a clown. Surely that would include our manager. Surely that would include a lot of players. I don't listen to post game interviews from athletes looking for intelligent thought. I hope you don't expect that either. I'm a fan of the game - I couldn't care less about the interaction between the relatively uneducated players (the majority of them) and the antagonistic media (the majority of them). That's where I agree with VC on Frank - the media asks stupid questions, bating him for stupid answers. Often enough they were able to get them.

What's Garcia's excuse for his outing? I don't care. Not one bit. Grab the ball and pitch. Freddy does that - and he usually does it well. He's had a bad second half this year, but he's still better than most team's #4 pitcher.

What current AL #4 starters do you want over Freddy? Scott Baker? Jaret Wright? Kyle Snyder? Nate Robertson? Esteban Loaiza? Ted Lilly? Edison Voluquez? Paul Byrd? Joel Piniero?

Of that list, there's 1 I'd take over him for sure, a few who are no better than Freddy, and the rest suck. And that's picking just from 10 of the top teams in the AL. I ignored Balt/TB/KC etc.

Freddy is a 4th starter.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 10:52 AM
I never said I wanted to get rid of the group, but I'll take the A's rotation.

Since the break, this group has given up more than five runs per nine innings.

I think our rotation may be better in the playoffs, should we get there. But they have all been out of sync for some time.

You can have the As rotation. You are taking Kirk Saaloos, Joe Blanton, Esteban Loaiza and Brad Halsley along with Zito. That's a lot of guys with a 4.5+ ERA in the most pitcher friendly park in the AL. How do As pitchers usually do when they leave Oakland? Ask Hudson or Mulder.

As I said - you can argue Oakland's rotation is better than ours - but I wouldn't take theirs. I surely wouldn't trade Freddy for their #4 (Loaiza or Halsley)

CHISOXFAN13
09-04-2006, 10:53 AM
Ok - what rotation would you swap ours for, striaght up, in the AL today? (and by today, I mean the guys currently slated to go the next 5 days)

Front to back - 5 man deep....

Not NYY or Boston. Look at their starters.

Minny has Santana - and then a lot of crap. Even with Liriano, it's still not a great 5 man rotation.

Detroit has a good 4 man rotation - I'd take it. Oakland maybe?

For all the bitching, what rotations in the AL would you swap ours for, straight up, for the rest of the regular season?

Baseball has been played for a long long time before last October. Sometimes the posting here leads me to believe people expect CGs from every starter every time out.

I agree with what you are saying. My frustration with Freddy stems from his mouth. He needs to shut up.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 10:54 AM
I agree with what you are saying. My frustration with Freddy stems from his mouth. He needs to shut up.

I agree with that - they all do for that matter. But like I said, I'm not looking to any of them for their wit and wisdom. He could say whatever the hell he wants to if he pitches well.

Brian26
09-04-2006, 10:54 AM
It is like some people just discovered baseball last October.

Many people did.

baaadbobbyjenks
09-04-2006, 10:59 AM
I say we send him, Uribe, and maybe Javy to the Mets for Reyes. Then trade Pods for a middle-relief guy and either put Sweeney or Owens in his spot. That's if we are going to trade him for a spot for Brandon. If we trade Javy, too, then we should either start Haegar or sign a 5th starter.

slobes
09-04-2006, 11:06 AM
Ok - what rotation would you swap ours for, striaght up, in the AL today? (and by today, I mean the guys currently slated to go the next 5 days)

Front to back - 5 man deep....

Not NYY or Boston. Look at their starters.

Minny has Santana - and then a lot of crap. Even with Liriano, it's still not a great 5 man rotation.

Detroit has a good 4 man rotation - I'd take it. Oakland maybe?

For all the bitching, what rotations in the AL would you swap ours for, straight up, for the rest of the regular season?

Baseball has been played for a long long time before last October. Sometimes the posting here leads me to believe people expect CGs from every starter every time out.

Great point. Unfortunately everyone has their minds fixed on the notion that our pitching staff should always be as good as it was last year: 4 straight complete games, ridiculous win streaks by Jose and Garland, Freddy winning nearly every big game he pitches in. The fact is that although our starting rotation has pitched now where near the level that it pitched at last year, we are still among the tops in the league in a very hitters friendly ballpark.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 11:08 AM
I say we send him, Uribe, and maybe Javy to the Mets for Reyes.

If you go to your controller, hit triangle, circle, up, up, left, circle, circle, up, left, then propose the trade, it will override the stupid trade block feature. If you call up the Mets and propose this to them, they'd **** on your pillow.

Palehose13
09-04-2006, 11:09 AM
This thread sucks my big toe.

baaadbobbyjenks
09-04-2006, 11:10 AM
If you go to your controller, hit triangle, circle, up, up, left, circle, circle, up, left, then propose the trade, it will override the stupid trade block feature. If you call up the Mets and propose this to them, they'd **** on your pillow.
I know, I know. Wishful thinking. One could hope though. They could use a couple starters though, and Garcia would be better in the NL than AL. By the way, its triangle, circle, down then up.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 11:52 AM
I would take the Tigers, especially if you throw Andrew Miller or Sanchez in as a member of the rotation, which he will be next year. They don't even need Maroth/Miner/Robertson...two of those guys are expendable.

I would also take the Angels.
Santana, Lackey, Weaver, Saunders, Colon (when he returns)

The A's are debateable, but definitely with Harden healthy.

The Yankees have been pitching MUCH better than the Sox the past two months. Wang would win the Cy Young if Santana didn't exist.
Wang, Mussina, Johnson, Lidle, Karstens/Rasner/Pavano is better than what we've had for the last two months. They also have two of the top ten minor league pitching prospects in all of baseball.

The Twins and White Sox are a toss-up, based on what they're both throwing out there now (assuming Liriano comes back in relief, at least).

jabrch
09-04-2006, 12:01 PM
I would take the Tigers, especially if you throw Andrew Miller or Sanchez in as a member of the rotation, which he will be next year. They don't even need Maroth/Miner/Robertson...two of those guys are expendable.

I would also take the Angels.
Santana, Lackey, Weaver, Saunders, Colon (when he returns)

The A's are debateable, but definitely with Harden healthy.

The Yankees have been pitching MUCH better than the Sox the past two months. Wang would win the Cy Young if Santana didn't exist.
Wang, Mussina, Johnson, Lidle, Karstens/Rasner/Pavano is better than what we've had for the last two months. They also have two of the top ten minor league pitching prospects in all of baseball.

The Twins and White Sox are a toss-up, based on what they're both throwing out there now (assuming Liriano comes back in relief, at least).

We aren't talking about next year - we are talking about now. Miller? Sanchez? Not starters. Look at the next 5 starters for Anaheim - no way. Look at the back of the Oakland rotation. No way. Yanks too - look at the next 5 they have?

We aren't pitching well right now. But look around the league - nobody is. If we didn't have so many guys have such great years last season, I doubt we'd hear this much bitching. This is still a very good starting rotation relative to the rest of the AL.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 12:15 PM
We aren't talking about next year - we are talking about now. Miller? Sanchez? Not starters. Look at the next 5 starters for Anaheim - no way. Look at the back of the Oakland rotation. No way. Yanks too - look at the next 5 they have?

We aren't pitching well right now. But look around the league - nobody is. If we didn't have so many guys have such great years last season, I doubt we'd hear this much bitching. This is still a very good starting rotation relative to the rest of the AL.

Please explain what "next 5" means? Mussina is coming back tomorrow. Their normal rotation is Wang, Mussina, Johnson, Lidle and Rasner/Karstens right now.

There's no argument that the Tigers are pitching better than we are...while both the Twins and Tigers have even lower composite ERA's due to their bullpens, their starters are very good. I don't know how Garcia>Robertson when there's a more than 1 point difference in ERA between the two.

The Angels only hole is the fifth starter. Unfortunately, we've got three pitchers going about their business recently (statistics-wise) like fifth starters in Contreras, Vazquez and Garcia. Depth doesn't mean anything unless it's quality and performing. We have quality, but the performance is definitely coming up short.

IlliniSox4Life
09-04-2006, 12:19 PM
Uh, What's the Score?

jabrch
09-04-2006, 12:23 PM
Please explain what "next 5" means? Mussina is coming back tomorrow. Their normal rotation is Wang, Mussina, Johnson, Lidle and Rasner/Karstens right now.

There's no argument that the Tigers are pitching better than we are...while both the Twins and Tigers have even lower composite ERA's due to their bullpens, their starters are very good. I don't know how Garcia>Robertson when there's a more than 1 point difference in ERA between the two.

The Angels only hole is the fifth starter. Unfortunately, we've got three pitchers going about their business recently (statistics-wise) like fifth starters in Contreras, Vazquez and Garcia. Depth doesn't mean anything unless it's quality and performing. We have quality, but the performance is definitely coming up short.

I wasn't sure if Mussina was back or not - even still - Lidle? Rasner? I'd take our #5 over either of them. Lidle had a 4.75 ERA in the NL this season. I'm unimpressed by Joe Saunders and Ervin Santana (since the break). You think our guys have struggled lately? Look at Santana. He hasn't been all that wonderful as his ERA has gone up to 4.50.

I think you are being overly critical of what you see the most of, and have the most emotionally invested in.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 12:30 PM
I wasn't sure if Mussina was back or not - even still - Lidle? Rasner? I'd take our #5 over either of them. Lidle had a 4.75 ERA in the NL this season. I'm unimpressed by Joe Saunders and Ervin Santana (since the break). You think our guys have struggled lately? Look at Santana. He hasn't been all that wonderful as his ERA has gone up to 4.50.

I think you are being overly critical of what you see the most of, and have the most emotionally invested in.

But that 4.5 ERA would be one of the best among our starters. It's only 0.03 worse than Garland...so you can count the 1st half for Jon and the 2nd for Santana, it's actually pretty comparable.

And we could use a strikeout pitcher besides Jose. Nobody on our team can consistently get strikeouts with RISP or men on third with less than 2 outs.

Palehose13
09-04-2006, 12:31 PM
Uh, What's the Score?

Good call.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2006, 12:33 PM
Well Freddy says by his own admission he's a 'big game' pitcher.

Send him to the Pirates....they never play any 'big' games.

Lip

TheOldRoman
09-04-2006, 12:45 PM
I say we send him, Uribe, and maybe Javy to the Mets for Reyes.
Ok, but only if we can pry Pujols away from the Cards for Ross Gload and trade Neal Cotts for Johan Santana.

The Dude
09-04-2006, 02:11 PM
I say it's gonna be to the Mets. I can't speculate who they would get in return, but I think it's doubtful he will go to an A.L. team. Either way, the clown needs to go.
:angry:

Let's get our **** together and put some distance between us and the Twins so the last series of the year DOESN'T determine who gets into the playoffs...
The only clown here is yourself

:threadblows:

soxinem1
09-04-2006, 02:42 PM
You can have the As rotation. You are taking Kirk Saaloos, Joe Blanton, Esteban Loaiza and Brad Halsley along with Zito. That's a lot of guys with a 4.5+ ERA in the most pitcher friendly park in the AL. How do As pitchers usually do when they leave Oakland? Ask Hudson or Mulder.

As I said - you can argue Oakland's rotation is better than ours - but I wouldn't take theirs. I surely wouldn't trade Freddy for their #4 (Loaiza or Halsley)

Right now that group has led them to the same record as the White Sox have.

Sure, on paper I'd rather have ours, but if not for the run support they received most of the first half, these guys would all be under .500 on another team.

I agree with your rationale, but even if the Sox win another World Series, you can bet at least one, if not two of these guys will be gone over the winter, and that Garcia will be one of them.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 02:54 PM
Right now that group has led them to the same record as the White Sox have.

Sure, on paper I'd rather have ours, but if not for the run support they received most of the first half, these guys would all be under .500 on another team.

I agree with your rationale, but even if the Sox win another World Series, you can bet at least one, if not two of these guys will be gone over the winter, and that Garcia will be one of them.

Perhaps the most compelling argument for the A's staff.

They've been led to the same record with an offense led by Chavez, Thomas and ???

We have the best offense in the AL...at least comparable to the Yankees. Still, no separation.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 03:33 PM
Sure, on paper I'd rather have ours, but if not for the run support they received most of the first half, these guys would all be under .500 on another team.

And if they pitched in Oakland, they'd have given up about 1/2 run less per game. That's huge pitcher's park, no?

jabrch
09-04-2006, 03:34 PM
Perhaps the most compelling argument for the A's staff.

They've been led to the same record with an offense led by Chavez, Thomas and ???

We have the best offense in the AL...at least comparable to the Yankees. Still, no separation.

Not as convincing as you think. Lots of pitcher succeed in Oakland. It might have something to do with the miles of foul territory. Look at guys who left there to go to the NL (Hudson, Mulder) who suck, or guys who come there from other parks (Loaiza) and are suddenly decent again.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 03:44 PM
Loiaza wasn't very good this season until the last six weeks.

Mulder and Hudson were overused. Look at their IP over the last 6-7 years when they pitched for Oakland.

It has caught up with Zito too, he's not nearly the same pitcher he was his first three seasons. He's still very good, but he's not worth $15 million by any stretch of the imagination.

I suggest you look at this statistical screen. It's AL team ERA's on the road. Tigers first, A's second. So you can't just say it's the park.

In fact, the White Sox ERA on the road is worse than at USCF. Explain that one. They're 11th out of 14 teams in that category. In fact, the Twins have a 3.47 ERA at home, even though I would hardly call the MetroDome a pitcher's park.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Splits&cut_type=34&sort=837&conference=AL&year=season_2006

ondafarm
09-04-2006, 04:04 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think the White Sox will trade two of their starting pitchers this offseason. At this time, I think those two would be Garcia and Vazquez.

McCarthy and Haegar just might be in the rotation next year. Bringing a knuckleballer into the rotation tends to be great for the relief corp.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 04:21 PM
Doesn't the White Sox bullpen have the least amount of innings again in the AL this year?

Beautox
09-04-2006, 04:50 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think the White Sox will trade two of their starting pitchers this offseason. At this time, I think those two would be Garcia and Vazquez.

McCarthy and Haegar just might be in the rotation next year. Bringing a knuckleballer into the rotation tends to be great for the relief corp.
I agree with 95% of what you say the only difference is i think its going to be Jose and Garcia. Jose is a little bit of a health risk and is the oldest member of our staff, and will be very desirable in this weak FA class also his contract is under market value; all these things make me believe we could get alot in return for him.

Vazquez is lights out through 6 and hasn't lost his "stuff" like Garcia and his trade value coupled with his contract make him a very unfavorable to deal in the off season, and recently it looks like he might be turning it around, but at the very least he could give us 5-6innings of lights out baseball and with Haeger on the staff saving the BP we could afford bring in Tracey/Haeger for long relief.

I would love to see if we could acquire Tejada and Daniel Cabera (http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2006/7/21/172933/527) in the offseason for the likes of Jose, Uribe, Cotts, and Gload. Now people are prolly going to say "beautox get off your xbox", but the O's need pitching, and a real first basemen, i happen to believe Gload could put up Mark Grace like stats .300+ avg and 15-20 Hrs, well playing solid 1B, plus hes left handed and a better option than Kevin Millar. Also LOOGYs are very desiarble especially one of Cotts stature, we acquired Rob Mackowiak for Damaso Marte, and David Riske!!! for milb free agent Javy Lopez, so all though he has been disappointing to us this year, doesn't mean other teams would feel the same way.

With regards to Garcia i would deal him and Podsednik to a team in the NL, for prospects.

With Garcia and Jose dealt, i would then lock up Buehrle and Crede long term, with Mark having a down year we could prolly save a little bit of money locking him up.

Ideally this offseason i would like to see Jose, Garcia, Uribe, Podsednik, Cotts, and Gload delt.

Resign David Riske, and Let Haeger/Cabera fight it out in ST to round out the rotaion, with the other going too the BP or AAA.

Next year i would love for Ryan Sweeney to be our opening day LFer and Leadoff man

'07 batting order
Batting order
LF Sweeney L
2B Iguchi R
RF Dye R
1B Konerko R
DH Thome L
SS Tejada R
3B Crede R
C AJP L
CF Anderson R

SP - Buehrle, Garland, McCarthy, Vazquez, Haeger/Cabera
BP - Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Logan, Riske, Haeger/Cabera/Tracey

Bench - Stewart, Mackowiak, Ozuna, Cintron, Owens.

The nice thing about the sox BP is that between Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton and Logan, you have for people that have some level of experience saving games and can all throw 94+, they are all locked up until 09 or beyond.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 04:57 PM
I agree with 95% of what you say the only difference is i think its going to be Jose and Garcia. Jose is a little bit of a health risk and is the oldest member of our staff, and will be very desirable in this weak FA class also his contract is under market value; all these things make me believe we could get alot in return for him.

Vazquez is lights out through 6 and hasn't lost his "stuff" like Garcia and his trade value coupled with his contract make him a very unfavorable to deal in the off season, and recently it looks like he might be turning it around, but at the very least he could give us 5-6innings of lights out baseball and with Haeger on the staff saving the BP we could afford bring in Tracey/Haeger for long relief.

I would love to see if we could acquire Tejada and Daniel Cabera (http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2006/7/21/172933/527) in the offseason for the likes of Jose, Uribe, Cotts, and Gload. Now people are prolly going to say "beautox get off your xbox", but the O's need pitching, and a real first basemen, i happen to believe Gload could put up Mark Grace like stats .300+ avg and 15-20 Hrs, well playing solid 1B, plus hes left handed and a better option than Kevin Millar. Also LOOGYs are very desiarble especially one of Cotts stature, we acquired Rob Mackowiak for Damaso Marte, and David Riske!!! for milb free agent Javy Lopez, so all though he has been disappointing to us this year, doesn't mean other teams would feel the same way.

With regards to Garcia i would deal him and Podsednik to a team in the NL, for prospects.

With Garcia and Jose dealt, i would then lock up Buehrle and Crede long term, with Mark having a down year we could prolly save a little bit of money locking him up.

Ideally this offseason i would like to see Jose, Garcia, Uribe, Podsednik, Cotts, and Gload delt.

Resign David Riske, and Let Haeger/Cabera fight it out in ST to round out the rotaion, with the other going too the BP or AAA.

Next year i would love for Ryan Sweeney to be our opening day LFer and Leadoff man

'07 batting order
Batting order
LF Sweeney L
2B Iguchi R
RF Dye R
1B Konerko R
DH Thome L
SS Tejada R
3B Crede R
C AJP L
CF Anderson R

SP - Buehrle, Garland, McCarthy, Vazquez, Haeger/Cabera
BP - Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Logan, Riske, Haeger/Cabera/Tracey

Bench - Stewart, Mackowiak, Ozuna, Cintron, Owens.

The nice thing about the sox BP is that between Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton and Logan, you have for people that have some level of experience saving games and can all throw 94+, they are all locked up until 09 or beyond.

The main problem is the Orioles aren't ready to give up on Cabrera yet. And certainly not for Contreras/Vazquez/Garcia. They would give us Cabrera for Brandon McCarthy though.

We have to offer Pods arbitration. I don't think we're going to go through all the effort to re-sign him or keep him, then turn around and trade him. Do you think the Cubs are going to do the same with Pierre?

We might as well just sign Pierre for the same amount we were going to get Pods for and get some better defense out of it at least.

Tejada wasn't traded for Oswalt/Everett/Lidge or E. Santana and E. Aybar. Angelos stood pat, just like the Nationals with Soriano.

But there's no way they would take that big a risk on any of our starters, unless it's McCarthy or Garland, who obviously aren't going anywhere.

The only way to get Tejada is to make Crede or Konerko available.

Beautox
09-04-2006, 05:05 PM
The main problem is the Orioles aren't ready to give up on Cabrera yet. And certainly not for Contreras/Vazquez/Garcia. They would give us Cabrera for Brandon McCarthy though.

We have to offer Pods arbitration. I don't think we're going to go through all the effort to re-sign him or keep him, then turn around and trade him. Do you think the Cubs are going to do the same with Pierre?

We might as well just sign Pierre for the same amount we were going to get Pods for and get some better defense out of it at least.

Tejada wasn't traded for Oswalt/Everett/Lidge or E. Santana and E. Aybar. Angelos stood pat, just like the Nationals with Soriano.

But there's no way they would take that big a risk on any of our starters, unless it's McCarthy or Garland, who obviously aren't going anywhere.

The only way to get Tejada is to make Crede or Konerko available.

The Angels were never in a million years going to give up both Santana and Aybar, there is a reason they have one of the best farm systems in the bigs, they know exactly what they have, and love their prospects, thats why they didn't give them up when they tried to Aquire Crawford.

Daniel Cabera reminds me of Matt Thornton, and i think they will deal him; for most of the year he was sitting down at AAA ottawa. I might also throw them Heath Phillips in that deal because even though he draws comparison to Mark, his time will come very soon for the show and he is either going to produce or be labeled an AAAA.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 05:09 PM
The Angels were never in a million years going to give up both Santana and Aybar, there is a reason they have one of the best farm systems in the bigs, they know exactly what they have, and love their prospects, thats why they didn't give them up when they tried to Aquire Crawford.

Daniel Cabera reminds me of Matt Thornton, and i think they will deal him; for most of the year he was sitting down at AAA ottawa. I might also throw them Heath Phillips in that deal because even though he draws comparison to Mark, his time will come very soon for the show and he is either going to produce or be labeled an AAAA.

I think the Orioles have finally realized they need to build that pitching staff with Mazzone there...around Bedard, to start with, but also Cabrera, Loewen and Hayden Penn. Lopez is definitely gone, Chen as well. But they're not in any position to deal Cabrera, and I don't think they're going to spend huge money on FA pitching this year (or trading for big-salaried guys either). Not sure about the status of Benson, but they might as well get rid of him too, not a part of their future either.

It only makes sense to add one of the White Sox starters if they were just one pitcher away from competing with the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays. They also have the D-Rays developing a boatload of young offensive players, so they need to hold on to all their young talent IMHO.

ondafarm
09-05-2006, 09:57 AM
Probably the Coca-Cola company. They control the supply of Coke machines.

caulfield12
09-05-2006, 10:02 AM
Probably the Coca-Cola company. They control the supply of Coke machines.

What? I'm not seeing the connection to this thread.

INSox56
09-05-2006, 12:36 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Freddy, Jose/Vaz, Uribe, and Pods go (that goes without saying) if we got something decent in return. As many have said, including P Rogers on his latest ESPN article, proven decent AL pitcher in the NL = gold. Kyle Lohse(!) has been putting up really respectable numbers for christ sake...not to mention Arroyo's "dominance". I don't think any of our pitchers are going anywhere in the AL. But other GMs tend to surprise with their stupidity sometimes......

soxfan13
09-05-2006, 01:17 PM
Not as convincing as you think. Lots of pitcher succeed in Oakland. It might have something to do with the miles of foul territory. Look at guys who left there to go to the NL (Hudson, Mulder) who suck, or guys who come there from other parks (Loaiza) and are suddenly decent again.

I dont know. Hudson is doing ****ty this year but last year his stats with atlanta were almost exactly the same as the year before in Oakland. Mulders W-L his first year in St. Louis was almost exactly the same as his last year with Oakland and with a much better ERA. Mulder is having arm problems this year explaining his troubles this year.

Domeshot17
09-05-2006, 01:30 PM
my problem with freddy (to the point i dont agree with the word clown, but i also wont disagree)

You see when Mack misses a blooper, doesnt get there, Freddy ALWAYS shows his team mates up acts all pissed off, does his best carlos zambrano impression. Does it suck for Freddy when mack misses a ball? Yes! Does it suck for Freddy then when he gives up 7 runs instead of 6 off that bat, and the offense puts up 9 and wins the game 9-8? No!!!. Its a team game.

Freddy came to camp very out of shape. We all saw the pictures, he was atleast 20 lbs overweight. He got Fat and Happy (figuratively and literally). He then went to the WBC instead of getting back in shape. I think he has been playing catch up all year. I mean, there has to be a connection to a guy losing 5-8 mph on his fastball, and his not being prepared in camp.

If Freddy finds the work ethic again, shuts his mouth, controlls himself, he will find it again in the NL, and maybe win a Cy Young. If this Freddy leaves, he will struggle anywhere he goes.

You think Mackowiak is going to bust his butt, risk breaking a wrist or ankle diving for a ball for a pitcher who shows him up? Not a chance. I think Freddy has lost some of the respect of his team mates, because for guys like Buehlre and Jose and Garland, they seem to make those diving grabs

DaleJRFan
09-05-2006, 01:34 PM
I would love to see if we could acquire Tejada and Daniel Cabera (http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2006/7/21/172933/527) in the offseason for the likes of Jose, Uribe, Cotts, and Gload.

:?: I stopped reading after this sentence. Let's throw in Tim Redding and see if we can grab Corey Patterson & Melvin Mora, too!!!

Beautox
09-05-2006, 01:56 PM
:?: I stopped reading after this sentence. Let's throw in Tim Redding and see if we can grab Corey Patterson & Melvin Mora, too!!!

Oh im sorry maybe you should've kept reading. I must be CRAZY!, to think that Tejada isn't going to put up a stink about not being on a contender and will want to be traded, and the fact that Daniel Cabera all though he has great stuff has no control at all. He has spent the better part of '06 in AAA, even though he made his Debut in '04.

Jose has been a premire pitcher for the last year and a half, even through his recent strugles and his contract is under market value, Uribe takes Tejads spot at SS, Gload takes over as a Left handed bat and for Kevin Millar, and Cotts even in having a down year with us is cheap, durable, and left handed, lest we forget what we got for both Damaso Marte and Javy Lopez. Let me restate this, thats SOOOOOOOOOOOO Crazy.

caulfield12
09-05-2006, 02:16 PM
Jose's NEW contract is certainly not under market value based on his last four performances.

Any team acquiring him would have to expect him to be a #2 starter or no worse than a 3 starter (this is what Garcia makes), even at $9 or $10 million.

Then you kick in the fact that the contract is through 2009 and the various theories about his "real" age, and you have some significant concerns in any front office around MLB. It would be one thing if the deal expired next year (like Garcia's contract), but there's two additional years of uncertainty to account for here.

The contracts that were given to the starters were mostly for pitchers in their late 20's or early 30's, but not a pitcher of Jose's age.

caulfield12
09-05-2006, 02:20 PM
Oh im sorry maybe you should've kept reading. I must be CRAZY!, to think that Tejada isn't going to put up a stink about not being on a contender and will want to be traded, and the fact that Daniel Cabera all though he has great stuff has no control at all. He has spent the better part of '06 in AAA, even though he made his Debut in '04.

Jose has been a premire pitcher for the last year and a half, even through his recent strugles and his contract is under market value, Uribe takes Tejads spot at SS, Gload takes over as a Left handed bat and for Kevin Millar, and Cotts even in having a down year with us is cheap, durable, and left handed, lest we forget what we got for both Damaso Marte and Javy Lopez. Let me restate this, thats SOOOOOOOOOOOO Crazy.

Cabrera is only 25, he's always had more IP than hits for three seasons in a row and his ERA this year in a "down" year is 4.74, which would fit right in with our starters this year, but is actually very good for the Baltimore staff (after Bedard).

Someone with that fastball and size, and a starter, they're going to hold onto him. I would much rather have Cabrera than Wood or Prior, for instance.

Do you think we could get either away from Hendry (not that we would want to) for what's being suggested as our proposal?

Tekijawa
09-05-2006, 02:30 PM
Many people did.

I think Many of those People knew about Baseball in October of 2003 and 2000...

jabrch
09-13-2006, 05:00 PM
Freaking clown

Chicken Dinner
09-13-2006, 05:15 PM
Angels, they think he's got great stuff.

slobes
09-13-2006, 05:33 PM
I love it when threads like this are up there when the person it's about has an outstanding performance. Brightens up my day with a hearthy chuckle.

jenn2080
09-13-2006, 06:21 PM
ah this is a stellar thread. why dont we worry about this say around nov 1?

PaulDrake
09-13-2006, 06:23 PM
Did the asking price maybe just go up a little?

soxwon
09-13-2006, 06:25 PM
red sox for coco crisp just watch

ws05champs
09-13-2006, 06:36 PM
After today's performance, I'd like to trade him for 2 Freddie Garcia clones.

Myrtle72
09-14-2006, 04:06 AM
After today's performance, I'd like to trade him for 2 Freddie Garcia clones.

Yes, I am all for that! Then he can start twice in a rotation.. or we could tweak one of the clones so that he's a reliever and then Freddy 1 could start and Freddy 2 could finish the game...

MadetoOrta
09-14-2006, 07:34 AM
Scott Shields + a top minor leaguer?

soxfan13
09-14-2006, 08:59 AM
to the cubs for mark prior!!

Thome25
09-14-2006, 09:00 AM
To Cincinnatti for a package that includes Ryan Freel

INSox56
09-14-2006, 09:07 AM
I don't know, I'm starting to get more and more intrigued by the Ryan Freel talk of late by some. If they have a few good prospects, I wouln't mind seeing Garcia for Freel + prospects. Career 369 OBP, 275 Avg...not bad. 35 steals this year.

Thome25
09-14-2006, 09:10 AM
I don't know, I'm starting to get more and more intrigued by the Ryan Freel talk of late by some. If they have a few good prospects, I wouln't mind seeing Garcia for Freel + prospects. Career 369 OBP, 275 Avg...not bad. 35 steals this year.

He fits our Grinder mentality perfectly. And I don't see Garcia coming back to haunt us in the NL especially with Cincy.

I hope we can get Freel somehow.