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Chips
09-03-2006, 03:58 PM
Well that sucked.

Is the title okay with you, Gavin?

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 03:59 PM
Fire Ozzie. :angry:

getonbckthr
09-03-2006, 03:59 PM
I guess today wasn't a "big game"

getonbckthr
09-03-2006, 03:59 PM
Fire Ozzie. :angry:
GENIOUS!!!!!!!!!

chisoxmike
09-03-2006, 04:00 PM
Another ****ing ****ty performance by the Sox. WAKE THE **** UP BOYS! IT'S SEPTEMBER!

A few things

-If our starting pitching doesn't suck, our bullpen does.
- Pablo, if you are going to bunt...then bunt. Don't square around and then take a strike.
-To the Sox, I don't care how good the Royals are playing, they're still the ****ING Royals. These are games PLAYOFF teams win.

The Dude
09-03-2006, 04:00 PM
Fire Ozzie. :angry:

:tealpolice:

SOXSINCE'70
09-03-2006, 04:00 PM
SERENITY NOW!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

hi im skot
09-03-2006, 04:01 PM
I figure many folks here might need this friendly reminder:


http://www.geocities.com/the_band_4evr/wrist.jpg

We had our chances.
Let's sweep the Red Sox.

SOXBOY
09-03-2006, 04:01 PM
even if,i mean if,makes the playoffs it will three and done!

samram
09-03-2006, 04:01 PM
Well, we can all get ready for the "we didn't score enough runs"-type comment from Freddy now. Mr. Big Game Pitcher indeed.

SABRSox
09-03-2006, 04:01 PM
I think Ozzie just needs to realize that square pegs don't go in circle holes. How many times do we have to see a starter go out when he's gassed, give up an extra-base hit, and then bring in Cotts to make things even worse?

And the offense completely **** themselves today too against Redman.

Dan Mega
09-03-2006, 04:01 PM
That was aweful.

Time to get crunk.

chisoxmike
09-03-2006, 04:01 PM
Fire Ozzie. :angry:

That's just stupid.

The Dude
09-03-2006, 04:01 PM
GENIOUS!!!!!!!!!
Ahh I always love the irony of that kind of misspelling!:rolleyes:

CanBuehrleWait
09-03-2006, 04:01 PM
Another ****ing ****ty performance by the Sox. WAKE THE **** UP BOYS! IT'S SEPTEMBER!

A few things

-If our starting pitching doesn't suck, our bullpen does.
- Pablo, if you are going to bunt...then bunt. Don't square around and then take a strike.
-To the Sox, I don't care how good the Royals are playing, they're still the ****ING Royals. These are games PLAYOFF teams win.

I second 3rd and 4th this statement

MarySwiss
09-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Well that sucked.

Is the title okay with you, Gavin?

Good one! :D:

Jjav829
09-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Why in the **** did Ozzie send Freddy out there for the 8th? It's not like he was pitching great. 4 runs in 7 innings against the Royals isn't very good. :mad:

Beautox
09-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Fire Ozzie. :angry:
/agree x100

keeps Garcia in over 100 pitches into the 8th? then Cotts who has been horrid half of this year, and then McCarthy and sets him up for failure, just so he can proclaim to everyone hes not our Savior,

McCarthy = Fly Ball pitchers, with men on 1st and 3rd and one out with a 1 run lead, thats not smart at all. esp when you have 4 peopel in your BP who are good 2 left handers and all of them throw 94+

Law11
09-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Could this team look less enthused about playing.
Ozzie looks like a beaten man at this point and its showing up
in the play of this team.

infohawk
09-03-2006, 04:02 PM
:puking::puking::puking::puking::puking::puking:
The way to beat the White Sox is to throw a soft-tosser at them. That's probably why we lose so many games to teams like the Royals. The less talented teams are probably more likely to have soft-tossers in their rotations. It was on the offense today. Freddy pitched well-enough to win and McCarthy just had some bad luck on the dribbler and then the seeing-eye single. He sure didn't get hit hard. Congrats to Neal for not serving up a two-run homer and at least recording an out.

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Ahh I always love the irony of that kind of misspelling!:rolleyes:

LOL!:D:

MarySwiss
09-03-2006, 04:03 PM
Well, we can all get ready for the "we didn't score enough runs"-type comment from Freddy now. Mr. Big Game Pitcher indeed.

I hope he doesn't, but in this case, he'd be right.

Chips
09-03-2006, 04:03 PM
That's just stupid

So is this:

even if,i mean if,makes the playoffs it will three and done!

sox1970
09-03-2006, 04:03 PM
Having Freddy start the 8th was incredibly dumb. I was shocked to see him still out there with a 4-3 game. This loss was huge.

Boondock Saint
09-03-2006, 04:04 PM
I think it's time to admit that our starting pitching doesn't need to be tweaked in the offseason, it needs to be overhauled. Garcia, Vazquez, and Contreras can all move along now, thank you very much. Big game pitchers, my ass.

SABRSox
09-03-2006, 04:04 PM
Why in the **** did Ozzie send Freddy out there for the 8th? It's not like he was pitching great. 4 runs in 7 innings against the Royals isn't very good. :mad:

Ozzie's love for his starters is sickening. Freddy pitched well enough to leave down 1 run, and that was it. He wasn't pitching a no-hitter out there. Absolutely no reason to come back. ****ing stupid decision by Ozzie. He does not know how to manage a pitching staff.

hi im skot
09-03-2006, 04:04 PM
Chips, have I mentioned how much I love your sig?


Hmmm...this game was rough. How about a change of subject:


You know what I haven't had in a long time?

Big League Chew.

chisoxmike
09-03-2006, 04:05 PM
Melton said it the best on the post-game

If the Sox don't make the postseason, one of the main reasons is becuase our 11-8 record against the Royals, much like our 11-8 record against the Tigers in 2003.

Law11
09-03-2006, 04:05 PM
I get ill just looking at Freddy on the mound.. You know he'll give up a huge HR everytime out.

The Dude
09-03-2006, 04:05 PM
Chips, have I mentioned how much I love your sig?


Hmmm...this game was rough. How about a change of subject:


You know what I haven't had in a long time?

Big League Chew.

:rolling:

I love that FG quote.

MarySwiss
09-03-2006, 04:06 PM
/agree x100

keeps Garcia in over 100 pitches into the 8th? then Cotts who has been horrid half of this year, and then McCarthy and sets him up for failure, just so he can proclaim to everyone hes not our Savior,

McCarthy = Fly Ball pitchers, with men on 1st and 3rd and one out with a 1 run lead, thats not smart at all. esp when you have 4 peopel in your BP who are good 2 left handers and all of them throw 94+

:?: I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

hi im skot
09-03-2006, 04:06 PM
:?: I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Chips
09-03-2006, 04:07 PM
Chips, have I mentioned how much I love your sig?


Hmmm...this game was rough. How about a change of subject:


You know what I haven't had in a long time?

Big League Chew.

No, you haven't.

Melton is right on.

The Dude
09-03-2006, 04:07 PM
:?: I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

He was trying to tell me to ignore him and he was successful!:redneck

Chips
09-03-2006, 04:07 PM
:?: I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

You're not alone.

I won't have read **** like that anymore.

infohawk
09-03-2006, 04:08 PM
/agree x100

keeps Garcia in over 100 pitches into the 9th? then Cotts who has been horrid half of this year, and then McCarthy and sets him up for failure, just so he can proclaim to everyone hes not our Savior,

McCarthy = Fly Ball pitchers, with men on 1st and 3rd and one out with a 1 run lead, thats not smart at all. esp when you have 4 peopel in your BP who are good 2 left handers and all of them throw 94+
Ozzie didn't lose this game. I can't blame that little two-out dribbler on McCarthy -- who may be a flyball pitcher but had two ground balls account for hits -- or the seeing-eye single. Brandon got the first guy out and didn't get hit hard on the two singles. Even so, the Sox didn't score in the ninth anyway. One could argue that they might have bunted and played for one run after Gload reached, but nothing can be assumed. Today it was the offense's inability to hit a soft-tosser. That's why we lose to Kenny Rogers all the time, too. Soft-tosser.

DrCrawdad
09-03-2006, 04:09 PM
Your 2006 White Sox...
Kings of the failed rally.

Vernam
09-03-2006, 04:09 PM
Usually I'm bemused by the posts after a tough loss, but today I couldn't agree more. First time I've criticized Ozzie since the championship: Stupid decision leaving Garcia in for the 8th. I said it before he gave up the double, so it's not second-guessing.

I did cheer up a bit when I saw Boston's starting pitchers for the next three games . . .

Vernam

doctorlecter
09-03-2006, 04:09 PM
Apparently, Ozzie was worried about our bullpen getting tired, regardless of the fact that we just had the September callup. That's the only f'ing reason to trot Freddy out there for the eighth.

Beautox
09-03-2006, 04:10 PM
:?: I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
what im saying is that bringing in Garcia to start the 8th in a 1 run game that was possible to tie using small ball was stupid. then brining in cotts when you have Logan/Thornton/Macdougal/Jenks in is also stupid, seeing how all 4 of the pitchers are good at getting the K or a GB, next brining in McCarthy who is an extreme fly ball pitcher with men on 1st and 3rd and 1 out is also stupid seeing how McCarthy hasn't been good close and late, and in general has been misused all year.

Ozzie set McCarthy up for failure, just so he can proclaim he isn't our savior, even though last year he was Nasty down the strech and helped us to the post season.

chisoxmike
09-03-2006, 04:11 PM
I did cheer up a bit when I saw Boston's starting pitchers for the next three games . . .



Come on now. At this point, I think any pitcher can shut this team down.

Kwrubac
09-03-2006, 04:13 PM
Usually I'm bemused by the posts after a tough loss, but today I couldn't agree more. First time I've criticized Ozzie since the championship: Stupid decision leaving Garcia in for the 8th. I said it before he gave up the double, so it's not second-guessing.

I did cheer up a bit when I saw Boston's starting pitchers for the next three games . . .

Vernam

I was thinking the same when we went up against Boof...We all know how that turned out....:angry:

Myrtle72
09-03-2006, 04:14 PM
You would think being beaten by the Royals once would wake them up.

infohawk
09-03-2006, 04:15 PM
I think it's time to admit that our starting pitching doesn't need to be tweaked in the offseason, it needs to be overhauled. Garcia, Vazquez, and Contreras can all move along now, thank you very much. Big game pitchers, my ass.
I'd shop Garcia but I certainly wouldn't give up Contreras. I think he's just hurt right now and trying to pitch through it. I'm torn about Vazquez. I'm tempted to give him at least another half, unless some team makes an offer KW cannot refuse. I appreciate everything Freddy's done for the team, but I don't think pitching in the 80-88 mph range and almost exclusively featuring breaking balls is going to cut it. His loss of velocity has transitioned him from a top-of-the-rotation starter to a pretty decent 4th or 5th starter. He's paid too much money for a 4th or 5th starter. Happily, some national league team desperate for pitching is likely to give up some decent prospects for him. He'd probably be more effective in the national league anyway at this point.

monkeypants
09-03-2006, 04:15 PM
Prior to the Devil Rays and Royals series I was hoping and expecting for the Sox to go 5-1. Instead they go 3-3. I don't care how any of the pollyannas want to sugar coat this but going 2-4 against the two worst teams in the league while in the playoff race is not getting the job done.

For the past few months now I've heard (and I've deluded myself with this thinking also) that the Sox just need to get on a hot streak. Well folks, it seems like this team just doesn't have it in them. We've waited and waited for them to get hot and nothing has happened yet and I'm not expecting them to get hot in the near future.

I've also heard that the Sox play down to and up to their opposition. Well good teams play up to their opposition and beat up on the bad teams.

Palehose13
09-03-2006, 04:15 PM
Well, this is about what I figured I'd see when I clicked on the thread. Of course I don't like that the Sox lost 2 out of 3 to the Royals, but Minnesota did lose today. That means that the Sox are still up on them in the WC standings.

One more thing, before I read this thread I was thinking about my football guys that I will be seeing next week. See, many of them like a certain team on the north side of Chicago and you know what, for them baseball is done and over and it is time to focus on football. IMO, it sure is nice that for the second year in a row football is starting and I really don't care because White Sox baseball still means something.

Palehose13
09-03-2006, 04:17 PM
I've also heard that the Sox play down to and up to their opposition. Well good teams play up to their opposition and beat up on the bad teams.

It's really nice that you have high expectations, but I consider a team that is 20+ over .500 a "good team".

infohawk
09-03-2006, 04:18 PM
Apparently, Ozzie was worried about our bullpen getting tired, regardless of the fact that we just had the September callup. That's the only f'ing reason to trot Freddy out there for the eighth. My thought was that, after closing to within one run, Ozzie wanted to give Freddy an opportunity to get the win. I didn't object to the decision seeing as how Freddy had been pretty effective with only one run over a quality start at that point. I'm hanging this one on the offense.

MarySwiss
09-03-2006, 04:18 PM
what im saying is that bringing in Garcia to start the 8th in a 1 run game that was possible to tie using small ball was stupid. then brining in cotts when you have Logan/Thornton/Macdougal/Jenks in is also stupid, seeing how all 4 of the pitchers are good at getting the K or a GB, next brining in McCarthy who is an extreme fly ball pitcher with men on 1st and 3rd and 1 out is also stupid seeing how McCarthy hasn't been good close and late, and in general has been misused all year.

Ozzie set McCarthy up for failure, just so he can proclaim he isn't our savior, even though last year he was Nasty down the strech and helped us to the post season.

Well, I would agree with some of your points. I was surprised to see Freddy come out to start the eighth. I really hated seeing Cotts come in and was relieved when he was pulled. I also would have brought in Thornton or MacDougal in preference to Brandon.

However, I do not think you can extrapolate that to mean that Ozzie set McCarthy up for failure, for any reason but especiallly the one you gave. Do you really think that there's any doubt that everyone on our team--from the manager on down--wants to win?

hsnterprize
09-03-2006, 04:20 PM
Prior to the Devil Rays and Royals series I was hoping and expecting for the Sox to go 5-1. Instead they go 2-4. I don't care how any of the pollyannas want to sugar coat this but going 2-4 against the two worst teams in the league while in the playoff race is not getting the job done.


I agree the Sox played like crap against Tampa Bay and Kansas City, but the Sox went 3-3 against those teams. Still, the Sox didn't play like World Champions against these teams, and I only hope and pray it doesn't bite them in the end when the competition is even tighter for playoff spots.

Myrtle72
09-03-2006, 04:20 PM
IMO, it sure is nice that for the second year in a row football is starting and I really don't care because White Sox baseball still means something.

Yes, that is a fantastic way to look at it.

chisoxmike
09-03-2006, 04:20 PM
Well, this is about what I figured I'd see when I clicked on the thread. Of course I don't like that the Sox lost 2 out of 3 to the Royals, but Minnesota did lose today. That means that the Sox are still up on them in the WC standings.

One more thing, before I read this thread I was thinking about my football guys that I will be seeing next week. See, many of them like a certain team on the north side of Chicago and you know what, for them baseball is done and over and it is time to focus on football. IMO, it sure is nice that for the second year in a row football is starting and I really don't care because White Sox baseball still means something.

Come on Val, I'm sorry.

Look, I'm not jumping off ship, but the Sox play like **** against ****ty teams they should beat. There is no reason for losing 2 of 3 to the Royals. The Sox could be up 1.5 in the Wild Card if they could take this series. The problem is it's looking like the final three games in Minnesota could decide who wins the Wild Card, and we all know how great the Sox play in the dome. This team had to step it up and win this series and didn't. 3-3 against the two worst teams in baseball is pathetic.

Kub_Killer_15
09-03-2006, 04:20 PM
Atleast were playing a beaten up Red Sox team not a healthy one. Lets atleaset take two out of three please:praying:

DrCrawdad
09-03-2006, 04:20 PM
Prior to the Devil Rays and Royals series I was hoping and expecting for the Sox to go 5-1. Instead they go 2-4. I don't care how any of the pollyannas want to sugar coat this but going 2-4 against the two worst teams in the league while in the playoff race is not getting the job done.

For the past few months now I've heard (and I've deluded myself with this thinking also) that the Sox just need to get on a hot streak. Well folks, it seems like this team just doesn't have it in them. We've waited and waited for them to get hot and nothing has happened yet and I'm not expecting them to get hot in the near future.

I've also heard that the Sox play down to and up to their opposition. Well good teams play up to their opposition and beat up on the bad teams.

Not to nitpick but the Sox went 3-3 against the D-Rays and Royals, not 2-4. Regardless though I'm very disappointed by the results.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-03-2006, 04:21 PM
Prior to the Devil Rays and Royals series I was hoping and expecting for the Sox to go 5-1. Instead they go 2-4.

No, 3-3. Sox won the first two vs. TB.

TheOldRoman
09-03-2006, 04:22 PM
I said on Thursday afternoon (when I found out that the Sox offense slept in again and gave us another loss against a horrible pitcher) that we would lose at least 1, but probably 2 to the Royals. The Royals are trying harder, and they care more. Yes, the worst team in the American League, who is going nowhere, cares more than the World Series champions who are playing themselves out of the playoffs.

The season won't officially end for a month, but we all know where it is going. We will see the same **** over and over. The Sox CAN make the playoffs, but they probably won't. They will underachieve. The starters will get rocked, the talented bullpen will continue to give up key runs, McCarthy will continue to do his best impression of Cotts, and our "potent" offense will continue putting up 2 runs against ****ty pitching while swinging for the fences.

This team is not going to turn it around. After playing like **** and "just staking by" for 5 months, they are not suddenly going to have great starting pitching, a solid bullpen, and most importantly, a consistant offense that can crush bad pitching. Face it. The only way the Sox make the playoffs is if the Twins imlpode. Yes, the Twins and Tigers had bad weeks, too, but they played the Yankees, and the Tigers played the Angels, too. This was our "easy week", where we were supposed to gain ground, because we have a tougher schedule than the Twins and Tigers the rest of the way out.

I am not jumping ship, I am not going nuts, I am just stating how I see things. This team is dying slowly. "The Dude" can believe all he wants that the Sox are going to go into Boston and win, but I don't see it. Why are we going to suddenly start beating bad pitching? They will continue to give up clutch hits to very bad hitters, allow every inherited runner to score, and overswing against bad pitching. I have resigned myself to the fact that it is over, that the World Champions are lying down, and that we will have to wait until 2008 at the earliest to say our franchise has made the playoffs two years in a row for the first time.

It isn't that our players don't care, they just don't care enough. They are trying, but they aren't trying hard enough. That is, unless you think the Royals are a better team than the Sox. Somehow, watching the 2005 World Series DVD is not consolation right now. 2005 is over. The players can be proud of 2005 after they retire, but right now, it is nothing. Right now, if they don't make the playoffs, they are failures.

Hitmen77
09-03-2006, 04:22 PM
Why in the **** did Ozzie send Freddy out there for the 8th? It's not like he was pitching great. 4 runs in 7 innings against the Royals isn't very good. :mad:

I don't get it either. Especially now that the rosters have been expanded, we have enough bullpen help to not let Freddy start the 8th.

Oh well, still would have lost 4-3 even if he went with relievers to start the 8th and they were able to keep the Royals from scoring.

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 04:23 PM
Atleast were playing a beaten up Red Sox team not a healthy one. Lets atleaset take two out of three please:praying:

Cleveland is the Team to watch out for .Even when they were mediocre this year they gave the Sox problems.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 04:23 PM
I was at the game today.

I don't know how many times it has happened this season, but we looked very flat and like we wanted to get the game over with ASAP. The only factor working against this was the slow pace of Garcia. I think it takes him almost three minutes to get to the dugout from the pitching mound.

I know Ozzie isn't ready to use Logan over Cotts yet, and that part worked out...McCarthy pitched in some pretty bad luck (unlike the hanger to Cantu), but we need to value these opportunities to put distance between the Twins and try to catch the Tigers. Facing a 3.5 lead in a nationally-televised game tonight, they can relax a little bit, knowing both teams have lost that are trailing them. MacDougal went yesterday, but there were better options in a game we SHOULD have won. Don't know how many times you can type that in one season.

We're 4 games under .500 since the ASB, and Detroit, no matter how bad they've looked recently, is 2 games over. If you read the DET boards, most of them are worried about making the playoffs and being embarassed. The other half is already conceding the division to the Sox or Twins, neither team wants to take it, though.

Beautox
09-03-2006, 04:23 PM
Well, I would agree with some of your points. I was surprised to see Freddy come out to start the eighth. I really hated seeing Cotts come in and was relieved when he was pulled. I also would have brought in Thornton or MacDougal in preference to Brandon.

However, I do not think you can extrapolate that to mean that Ozzie set McCarthy up for failure, for any reason but especiallly the one you gave. Do you really think that there's any doubt that everyone on our team--from the manager on down--wants to win?

how can i not, Ozzie has thrown McCarthy under the bus, because people want to see him in the rotation instead of Vazquez/Garcia, i wouldn't put it past Ozzie to do something of that nature just to be able to say "i told you so"

infohawk
09-03-2006, 04:23 PM
It's really nice that you have high expectations, but I consider a team that is 20+ over .500 a "good team". No doubt the Sox are a good team. Doesn't it just seem that -- where everything seemed to go their way last year -- this year it goes the other way? Case in point was that Paul Bako dribbler off of McCarthy. What was that and could it have come at a worse time? Lot's of stuff like that has happened this year. The pitching hasn't been as good and we haven't had the same "magic" (or "clutchness" for those so inclined). It just seems like more opponents are getting big two-out hits against the Sox this year whereas last year they grabbed some bench. It's a credit to the amount of talent on this team that they are right in the thick of a pennant race in a pretty tough division despite the pitching problems and situational struggles.

Palehose13
09-03-2006, 04:24 PM
Come on Val, I'm sorry.

Look, I'm not jumping off ship, but the Sox play like **** against ****ty teams they should beat. There is no reason for losing 2 of 3 to the Royals. The Sox could be up 1.5 in the Wild Card if they could take this series. The problem is it's looking like the final three games in Minnesota could decide who wins the Wild Card, and we all know how great the Sox play in the dome. This team had to step it up and win this series and didn't. 3-3 against the two worst teams in baseball is pathetic.

What do you want me to say? That is the way I feel and think. I'm not convinced that it is going to come down to the weekend in Minnesota, but if it does and the Sox lose then they truly weren't the better team and don't desrve to be in the playoffs.

Besides, with the way everyone is talking, I would rather have my $840 go towards next year's seats instead of an ALDS loss.

Beautox
09-03-2006, 04:24 PM
Lastly Ozzie managed this game for Garcia's W not the teams.

ChiSox14305635
09-03-2006, 04:25 PM
Yesterday's post-game victory thread: 52 responses.

Today's loss thread (including my post): 64 responses.


Gotta love Sox fans. :D:

Myrtle72
09-03-2006, 04:26 PM
Yesterday's post-game victory thread: 52 responses.

Today's loss thread (including my post): 64 responses.


Gotta love Sox fans. :D:

Ha. Maybe Thomas was right... :p

slobes
09-03-2006, 04:28 PM
Why in the **** did Ozzie send Freddy out there for the 8th? It's not like he was pitching great. 4 runs in 7 innings against the Royals isn't very good. :mad:

Agreed. His pitch count was at about 100 after the 7th. Is it really gonna be worth it to have him have a couple more batters?

All in all, that was bad. When we start to come back, we give it right back up. Seems to be the story of the 2nd half of this season. We better get our act together, pronto.

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 04:29 PM
Lastly Ozzie managed this game for Garcia's W not the teams.
A mi manera.. I really hate to compare the two,But he manages the way Ditka coached,very stubborn with the way he did things . I guess with success you can do that .But the act does wear thin after awhile.

monkeypants
09-03-2006, 04:29 PM
It's really nice that you have high expectations, but I consider a team that is 20+ over .500 a "good team".

I should rephrase that great teams play competitively with the good teams and beat up on the cellar dwellers. This current Sox team is not a great team. Sure it's a good team but when the division rivals are playing against other teams in the playoff hunt and we can't take care of our own business then there is some cause for concern. The Sox had the opportunity to take charge in the Wild Card and make up some ground in the division over this past week and instead they just treaded water. Now the Sox just made it harder on themselves because they are going to have to take care of business against the Twins and Tigers.

It's just so frustrating because we know what they can accomplish yet so far they seem to keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Lip Man 1
09-03-2006, 04:30 PM
Chisox 14:

With respect who gives a **** how many folks post after a win or a loss. Personally I post for both but frankly I EXPECT the Sox to win...when they do that's nothing to write home about to me. I mean these aren't the friggin' Triple A Royals for God's sake.

ChisoxTony:

It was nine losses in 2003 to the Tigers.

Regarding this last 'brilliant' week. When you go 3-3 against the suck ass teams in the American League you've got problems. 26 losses now to garbage teams this season.

Personally, it's gotten to the point where I don't care what happens. I want this friggin' season to END, one way or another. I'm sick of their ineptness and the continuous roller coaster they put the fans through.

These are the World Champions?

I agree with some of the other posters, they absolutely look at times like they could care less.

Lip

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 04:31 PM
I said on Thursday afternoon (when I found out that the Sox offense slept in again and gave us another loss against a horrible pitcher) that we would lose at least 1, but probably 2 to the Royals. The Royals are trying harder, and they care more. Yes, the worst team in the American League, who is going nowhere, cares more than the World Series champions who are playing themselves out of the playoffs.

The season won't officially end for a month, but we all know where it is going. We will see the same **** over and over. The Sox CAN make the playoffs, but they probably won't. They will underachieve. The starters will get rocked, the talented bullpen will continue to give up key runs, McCarthy will continue to do his best impression of Cotts, and our "potent" offense will continue putting up 2 runs against ****ty pitching while swinging for the fences.

This team is not going to turn it around. After playing like **** and "just staking by" for 5 months, they are not suddenly going to have great starting pitching, a solid bullpen, and most importantly, a consistant offense that can crush bad pitching. Face it. The only way the Sox make the playoffs is if the Twins imlpode. Yes, the Twins and Tigers had bad weeks, too, but they played the Yankees, and the Tigers played the Angels, too. This was our "easy week", where we were supposed to gain ground, because we have a tougher schedule than the Twins and Tigers the rest of the way out.

I am not jumping ship, I am not going nuts, I am just stating how I see things. This team is dying slowly. "The Dude" can believe all he wants that the Sox are going to go into Boston and win, but I don't see it. Why are we going to suddenly start beating bad pitching? They will continue to give up clutch hits to very bad hitters, allow every inherited runner to score, and overswing against bad pitching. I have resided myself to the fact that it is over, that the World Champions are lying down, and that we will have to wait until 2008 at the earliest to say our franchise has made the playoffs two years in a row for the first time.

It isn't that our players don't care, they just don't care enough. They are trying, but they aren't trying hard enough. That is, unless you think the Royals are a better team than the Sox. Somehow, watching the 2005 World Series DVD is not consolation right now. 2005 is over. The players can be proud of 2005 after they retire, but right now, it is nothing. Right now, if they don't make the playoffs, they are failures.

Agree with everything except it should be "resigned."

In all seriousness, we're VERY lucky to emerge from this week with a 3-3 split and the WC lead.

Things could have gone a lot worse. And we're getting a break going into Boston with a decimated team that will probably take 2/3 from us the rate things are going.

The D-Rays and Royals giftwrapped games for us Saturday and Wednesday.
You definitely don't count on that happening against the best teams in the league.

We continue to waste opportunities to move runners over when we have the bottom of the line-up batting. These guys need to concentrate on getting men over into scoring position, not flailing away like they're in the deep rough at Medinah.

There's not going to be any momentum, any streak of "dominance" from the starters for 10 games where we go 8-2 or 9-1, we're either going to barely survive or Minnesota's going to collapse just a little bit more with their starting pitching in shambles.

The sad part is that our starters have been "healthy" all season, we don't have any excuses like the Twins do. Not to mention the fact they have half the payroll we do.

I've watched the Twins, Tigers and White Sox all season. The Twins want it the most right now...the Tigers are playing not to lose or tight (like we did last year) and the White Sox are terribly inconsistent from game to game.

QCIASOXFAN
09-03-2006, 04:31 PM
I should rephrase that great teams play competitively with the good teams and beat up on the cellar dwellers. This current Sox team is not a great team. Sure it's a good team but when the division rivals are playing against other teams in the playoff hunt and we can't take care of our own business then there is some cause for concern. The Sox had the opportunity to take charge in the Wild Card and make up some ground in the division over this past week and instead they just treaded water. Now the Sox just made it harder on themselves because they are going to have to take care of business against the Twins and Tigers.

It's just so frustrating because we know what they can accomplish yet so far they seem to keep shooting themselves in the foot.It is a pretty damn good team on paper though.

TornLabrum
09-03-2006, 04:32 PM
It's really nice that you have high expectations, but I consider a team that is 20+ over .500 a "good team".
I agree. 20+ over .500 is a good team. But a team that can't beat the ****ing Royals isn't a championship team.

Quick edit: And what I mean is play at least .667 against them.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 04:33 PM
Agreed. His pitch count was at about 100 after the 7th. Is it really gonna be worth it to have him have a couple more batters?

All in all, that was bad. When we start to come back, we give it right back up. Seems to be the story of the 2nd half of this season. We better get our act together, pronto.

I was sitting there thinking, Ozzie, you must be kidding, are you really valuing a Garcia win (or at least avoiding a loss) more than a Sox win and a gain in the standings?

0o0o0
09-03-2006, 04:33 PM
I went into this series thinking 2 out of 3 was unacceptable...

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 04:34 PM
A mi manera.. I really hate to compare the two,But he manages the way Ditka coached,very stubborn with the way he did things . I guess with success you can do that .But the act does wear thin after awhile.

Ozzie couldn't carry Ditka's jockstrap.

BeviBall!
09-03-2006, 04:34 PM
The one constant about the '06 Sox is inconsistency. This team is the most frustrating Sox team ever assembled. Guess what? We'll get our hopes up and our hopes dashed many more times in the next month and as much as this team has underachieved, we still find ourselves in the playoffs if the season ended today.

Who is man enough to gut it out? I'll be tuning in tomorrow... will you?

Chips
09-03-2006, 04:34 PM
Besides, with the way everyone is talking, I would rather have my $840 go towards next year's seats instead of an ALDS loss.
It's basically a win-win situation

MarySwiss
09-03-2006, 04:36 PM
Well, I would agree with some of your points. I was surprised to see Freddy come out to start the eighth. I really hated seeing Cotts come in and was relieved when he was pulled. I also would have brought in Thornton or MacDougal in preference to Brandon.

However, I do not think you can extrapolate that to mean that Ozzie set McCarthy up for failure, for any reason but especiallly the one you gave. Do you really think that there's any doubt that everyone on our team--from the manager on down--wants to win?


how can i not, Ozzie has thrown McCarthy under the bus, because people want to see him in the rotation instead of Vazquez/Garcia, i wouldn't put it past Ozzie to do something of that nature just to be able to say "i told you so"

Lastly Ozzie managed this game for Garcia's W not the teams.

Well, that's it. I'm done. If you really believe that Ozzie is willing to piss away an opportunity for back-to-back World Series championships in order to satisfy some obscure agenda, then nothing I could possibly say would sway you. In any event, I can't think of anything to say. Doesn't happen often, but you have rendered me speechless.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 04:36 PM
I think I felt more optimistic about the 2000 White Sox heading into the playoffs than this team...

BeviBall!
09-03-2006, 04:37 PM
I think I felt more optimistic about the 2000 White Sox heading into the playoffs than this team...

I agree with this post 110%. Maybe we'll be plesantly surprised this year?

Lip Man 1
09-03-2006, 04:37 PM
Bevi:

They are the 'schizoid Sox!'

Lip

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 04:39 PM
Still think that Cleveland series is the make or break series for the Sox.

QCIASOXFAN
09-03-2006, 04:41 PM
I have read some good points that I believe also, we don't look like we are playing that hard or really care. I believe they care, but not as much as some other teams. They look worn out. When Brandon gave up the game they showed Ozzie hanging over the ledge of the dugout just looking down messing around with something. We just look like we have been dragged through a meatgrinder.

Paulwny
09-03-2006, 04:44 PM
Let's finally put an end to "Last yrs team was a great team." They won too many games by 1 run and the pitchers got hot in the play-offs. Beating the opposition by 1 run does not make any team, in any sport, that much more superior to the opposition.
Too many 1 run victories = a lucky team, ask the 60' sox.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 04:45 PM
We keep saying every series is "make or break" and we keep hanging in somehow.

Looks like it will end up as predicted, with the "true" make or break coming in the Metrodome to end the season.

I just feel sorry for Thome, wish we could get him back to the playoffs and WS again, but this pitching staff shows no signs at all of being ready to go deep into the playoffs this season. It's "indifferent" or "apathetic," if only we could feel the same way as fans.

Actually, this week, the losses are coming a little easier. I left the game today when Ozzie gave up the double to Grudz, knowing that was the end and that Garcia had to be pulled. There's nothing you can say...you just walk out through the gates and take your medicine and hope they survive the next month.

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 04:47 PM
I just feel sorry for Thome, wish we could get him back to the playoffs and WS again, but this pitching staff shows no signs at all of being ready to go deep into the playoffs this season.

Thome could have helped his chances by coming through with the bases loaded.

TheOldRoman
09-03-2006, 04:48 PM
Still think that Cleveland series is the make or break series for the Sox.
Why? They are just another bad team that the Sox have played ****ty against. On top of it, they are just like the Royals. They are clearly out of it, but they have playing hard lately. But the Sox don't know that, they treat them like their record - bad team, we don't have to try as hard.
The Sox should be the Indians, they should take at least 3. What they are good enough to do and what they actually do are two different questions.

Why is this team going to suddenly wake up after playing 136 games? We are going to see the same thing for the rest of the season. .500 ball, offense gives away a bunch of games, pitching gives away a bunch of games.

beckett21
09-03-2006, 04:49 PM
I think I'm going to be sick. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3245)

I want my Sunday back. What a waste of a day. :anon:

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 04:50 PM
Yep, but he hasn't had any big hits recently against lefties.

He's just not in a groove yet, like he can get when he's playing everyday.

I was not surprised by the rocket against Peralta, he at least put us in a position to rally back (we had six outs that time against a very beatable pen) but our bullpen (with Garcia's help) collapsed.

Good riddance Grudzielanek and Teahen. We never figured out how to get those guys out all season long.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-03-2006, 04:50 PM
I don't know how many times it has happened this season, but we looked very flat and like we wanted to get the game over with ASAP.

We're 4 games under .500 since the ASB, and Detroit, no matter how bad they've looked recently, is 2 games over.

Two good points. There have been a bunch of brutal getaway days stretching over the period going back to the Sunday game against the Cubs (which still haunts me for some reason) and including the third game vs. Tampa Bay and today. Flat is exactly the word I'd use. It's really mysterious to me.

We have no right to expect the Tigers to play .500 ball for the entire second half, yet so far they have obliged. Yet the Sox can't get to, let alone stay, just a few games over .500? I'm stumped.

TheOldRoman
09-03-2006, 04:51 PM
Let's finally put an end to "Last yrs team was a great team." They won too many games by 1 run and the pitchers got hot in the play-offs. Beating the opposition by 1 run does not make any team, in any sport, that much more superior to the opposition.
Too many 1 run victories = a lucky team, ask the 60' sox.
Bull****. Absolute bull****.
Last year's team was a great team. This year's team doesn't care half as much as last year. They are lackadaisical. Our pitching hasn't been half as good as last year, and our hitting has struggled to score runs against bad pitching far more than the 2005 team. Don't base your opinin about 2005 about this team here. A lot has changed.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 04:51 PM
Why? They are just another bad team that the Sox have played ****ty against. On top of it, they are just like the Royals. They are clearly out of it, but they have playing hard lately. But the Sox don't know that, they treat them like their record - bad team, we don't have to try as hard.
The Sox should be the Indians, they should take at least 3. What they are good enough to do and what they actually do are two different questions.

Why is this team going to suddenly wake up after playing 136 games? We are going to see the same thing for the rest of the season. .500 ball, offense gives away a bunch of games, pitching gives away a bunch of games.

You forgot defensive lapses and playing players out of position, lol.

Vernam
09-03-2006, 04:59 PM
Usually I'm bemused by the posts after a tough loss, but today I couldn't agree more. First time I've criticized Ozzie since the championship: Stupid decision leaving Garcia in for the 8th. I said it before he gave up the double, so it's not second-guessing. For the record, I wrote this before some of the really crazy **** started to fly.

I did cheer up a bit when I saw Boston's starting pitchers for the next three games . . .I should have known better than to try injecting a note of optimism. :?:

Vernam

TheOldRoman
09-03-2006, 04:59 PM
Actually, this week, the losses are coming a little easier. I left the game today when Ozzie gave up the double to Grudz, knowing that was the end and that Garcia had to be pulled. There's nothing you can say...you just walk out through the gates and take your medicine and hope they survive the next month.
I agree 100%. After the Friday and Saturday games we handed to the Twins, I was extremely pissed. After Sunday, I went back to my pollyana ways, thinking they "finally game out of it". Watching Tuesday and Wednesday taught me better. I realize that it is all but over. This team hasn't played a good, solid game in a week now, and they haven't put together a good string of baseball all season. I was so upset last week, but right now I am peaceful. I know it is almost over, I am just waiting for it all to end. I realized that there is no reason to get upset because: a)it won't change anything, b)I know I will see the same thing for the next month, anyway. I hope they can play good ball, but it is nothing but blind hope.

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 05:03 PM
Hawk keeps talking about a lack of intensity. Doesn't the manager have something to do with that?

Last year, Ozzie had guys like Aaron and Carl around. Whatever you think of their talents or abilities, those two guys were intense. Also Aaron provided leadership in the OF--you never saw so many near collisions and mis-communications between outfielders when Aaron was out there, because he took charge and had his teammates respect. (NO, I'm not pining for Aaron's return, just telling it like it is). Carl provided leadership and intensity in the clubhouse and in the dugout no matter what you think of him. (Again, I'm not saying he's better than Thome as a DH, but they never replaced his intensity/leadership.).

Intangibles count.

As for Ozzie, I have never criticized him until today. I never thought he was a great strategic manager, but his ability to keep a team loose and playing well together as a team offset that and made him a good manager, in my opinion. I always liked him. But now that the pitching is no longer lights out, Ozzie's weaknesses are being exposed. His team is playing without intensity indicating maybe his act has gotten old with his players. His ridiculous lineup desisions (Mack in CF for example) and poor in-game handling of his pitching staff are costing games.

Some predicted Ozzie's star would burn brightly but burn out quickly. I didn't think so. Maybe I was wrong and they were correct.

MarySwiss
09-03-2006, 05:03 PM
I think I'm going to be sick. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3245)

I want my Sunday back. What a waste of a day. :anon:

In the postgame thread, I said you had my sympathy for having to write this TBGR.

I don't think anyone could have done it any better. I'm just glad I didn't have to write it.

That said, I DO have to write tomorrow's. So they'd better dammit win!

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 05:06 PM
If they don't make the playoffs .It'll be interesting to see what kind of overhaul K.W makes. I see a few Sox players potentially on the bubble.

beckett21
09-03-2006, 05:07 PM
In the postgame thread, I said you had my sympathy for having to write this TBGR.

I don't think anyone could have done it any better. I'm just glad I didn't have to write it.

That said, I DO have to write tomorrow's. So they'd better dammit win!

I'm just as frustrated as everybody else.

There is only so much of this crappy play that any sane person can take. It's far from over, but the Sox can't just expect to take the field and be given an automatic W. They still have to earn it.

3-3 against Tampa and KC in the heat of a pennant race just isn't going to cut it.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 05:08 PM
I agree 100%. After the Friday and Saturday games we handed to the Twins, I was extremely pissed. After Sunday, I went back to my pollyana ways, thinking they "finally game out of it". Watching Tuesday and Wednesday taught me better. I realize that it is all but over. This team hasn't played a good, solid game in a week now, and they haven't put together a good string of baseball all season. I was so upset last week, but right now I am peaceful. I know it is almost over, I am just waiting for it all to end. I realized that there is no reason to get upset because: a)it won't change anything, b)I know I will see the same thing for the next month, anyway. I hope they can play good ball, but it is nothing but blind hope.

I think the maddest I got last year was that game in the final week when we had Borchard and G. Blum PHing in the end against Detroit. Maybe it was the first game against DET that series. Or maybe it was another KC game that we had a huge lead going into the late innings that I just assumed we would win and turned off, only to discover the next day we'd somehow managed to lose the game.

Luckily, KC had won Sunday (the Sizemore lost ball game) and then to the D-Rays, but I was so pissed.

It wasn't like in 2003, when all those losses to DET were 1-0 or 2-1 or 3-2, this was just survival as a fan, almost a form of torture or sado-masochism, like when Captain Dan gets up on the boat in the hurricane in Forrest Gump and starts yelling at God, C'mom, bring it on, more pain and suffering, lol!!!

Instead of being elated about making the playoffs, I was worrying about having to go through an entire offseason (and lifetime) PO'ed about the one that got away, like 69 Cubs fans or 64 Phillies fans.

It would be one thing if we were the Yankees and had 26 Championships...but to be that close all year long and see it all slip away over two months, it was almost too much to take. That's the beauty of baseball, and why football can never be the same to me. Having to play day after day, week after week, for six months, there's nothing like the highs and lows of that structure as a fan.

Despite the way this sucks right now, at least we don't have to wait another week until the next game. We can simply lose to AAAA pitcher "X" for Boston and go through the same thing again, but every baseball game is like a snowflake or fingerprint, something different..unique, that adds to your enjoyment of the game, something you've never seen. Unfortunately, this season looks like the movie Groundhog Day and every occurence is repeatable and all too familiar for comfort. That's why it's easy to point the finger at Ozzie or KW, because we can only sit back and take it, they can actually try to do something about it.

Paulwny
09-03-2006, 05:10 PM
Bull****. Absolute bull****.
Last year's team was a great team. This year's team doesn't care half as much as last year. They are lackadaisical. Our pitching hasn't been half as good as last year, and our hitting has struggled to score runs against bad pitching far more than the 2005 team. Don't base your opinin about 2005 about this team here. A lot has changed.

I 'll never believe that any team doesn't care about winning. You're never as good as you are when your winning and you're never as bad as you are when your losing.
On paper this team is better then last yrs team, well, last years team was good it wasn't great this yrs team is proving that.

buehrle4cy05
09-03-2006, 05:11 PM
One more thing, before I read this thread I was thinking about my football guys that I will be seeing next week. See, many of them like a certain team on the north side of Chicago and you know what, for them baseball is done and over and it is time to focus on football. IMO, it sure is nice that for the second year in a row football is starting and I really don't care because White Sox baseball still means something.

I was with a few friends at a HS football game Friday, and when I found out the Sox lost, I was pissed (it didn't help that our team lost too). One of my friends is a Cub fan, and he told me, "At least you still care about games now." And I realized something. I'd much rather be frustrated and pissy after games in September than not care about them.

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 05:11 PM
If they don't make the playoffs .It'll be interesting to see what kind of overhaul K.W makes. I see a few Sox players potentially on the bubble.

I hope they slug their way to another World Series Championship.

No matter what, I hope they trade Thome and or Konerko this offseason and rebuild on Pitching, Speed and Defense. Please everyone comprehend what I just wrote. I don't want to dump Paulie or Thome. But the Sox could get a lot in return for one of those guys and having Thome, Paulie, Dye, Crede & A.J. all in a row in the lineup is just too darn slow. It forces us to rely on Home Run or nothing.

I don't want to abandon the Home Run, but I'd like to see a more balanced attack and improve the pitching---you know, kinda like 2005.

beckett21
09-03-2006, 05:13 PM
I was with a few friends at a HS football game Friday, and when I found out the Sox lost, I was pissed (it didn't help that our team lost too). One of my friends is a Cub fan, and he told me, "At least you still care about games now." And I realized something. I'd much rather be frustrated and pissy after games in September than not care about them.

From the mouths of babes...

Agreed that this definitely beats the heck out of playing out the string.:cool:

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 05:16 PM
That's why Minnesota has the perfect balance IMO.

They have Tyner, Ford, Bartlett, Punto, Gonzalez, etc., that can play "small ball" and cut 1,001 little razor blades into your arm or leg until you bleed to death and don't even realize what's hit you. Like that movie "Crank" that just came out this weekend, except the White Sox are playing on low adrenaline and about to fall into an October slumber.

Then they have Mauer, Cuddyer, Morneau and Hunter to supply the power and big bats.

And the best bullpen in the league, along with the Tigers.

The only question mark is their starting pitching.

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 05:19 PM
That's why Minnesota has the perfect balance IMO.

They have Tyner, Ford, Bartlett, Punto, Gonzalez, etc., that can play "small ball" and cut 1,001 little razor blades into your arm or leg until you bleed to death and don't even realize what's hit you. Like that movie "Crank" that just came out this weekend, except the White Sox are playing on low adrenaline and about to fall into an October slumber.

Then they have Mauer, Cuddyer, Morneau and Hunter to supply the power and big bats.

And the best bullpen in the league, along with the Tigers.

The only question mark is their starting pitching.

See, I agree with you 100% on all that.

The Sox used the Twins as a model to build that 2005 Champion. I hope they go back to that blueprint for next year.

In the meantime, I'm still hoping they can slug their way to the WS this year, but it's not looking so good right now.

PaulDrake
09-03-2006, 05:21 PM
Ozzie's love for his starters is sickening. Freddy pitched well enough to leave down 1 run, and that was it. He wasn't pitching a no-hitter out there. Absolutely no reason to come back. ****ing stupid decision by Ozzie. He does not know how to manage a pitching staff. It hurts me to criticize Ozzie, after all last year did happen, and what a rare event that has been for us Sox fans. That being said, your are correct IMHO. Ozzie is one of the worst game day strategists in my lifetime, and his handling of his starting pitchers is his biggest weakness. Last year his pitchers helped him out, this year he is managing his team out of a chance to win too many games.

IronFisk
09-03-2006, 05:26 PM
Inexcusable. 3-3 against TB and KC? October is looking a lot more quiet.

PKalltheway
09-03-2006, 05:27 PM
I was with a few friends at a HS football game Friday, and when I found out the Sox lost, I was pissed (it didn't help that our team lost too). One of my friends is a Cub fan, and he told me, "At least you still care about games now." And I realized something. I'd much rather be frustrated and pissy after games in September than not care about them.
Exactly. I agree 110%. I remember how indifferent I was toward watching the Sox in September of 2004. I'll take this anyday. Besides, it isn't like every playoff team runs away with it (unless you're the Mets). We're in the toughest division and the toughest race in baseball. It's gonna come down to the final week. I'm still optimistic about our chances. The Sox can do this.:cool:

MadetoOrta
09-03-2006, 05:30 PM
I'm too pissed to erupt anymore. I'm spent. One question that comes to mind is why this team went in the toilet after the All-Star break for two straight years? We can win 'em 12-1 but we don't have the personnel to win the 2-1 and 3-2 games. There's less tension after winning it all last season, but it is exasperating.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 05:30 PM
See, I agree with you 100% on all that.

The Sox used the Twins as a model to build that 2005 Champion. I hope they go back to that blueprint for next year.

In the meantime, I'm still hoping they can slug their way to the WS this year, but it's not looking so good right now.

Realistically, who are the players with the most value? Logic says you keep Crede because he's a "plus" defender, an emerging stick and cheaper.

Dye is a bargain at $6.5 million, although you could certainly get a ton back in return for him based on these last two seasons.

That leaves Thome and Konerko. We need Thome more because of his LH bat IMO, and we're getting a ton of money from the Phils to subsidize his contract.

So, if you were to trade any of the Big 4, it would have to be Konerko, and to a team like the Orioles or Angels that wanted to sign him in the first place.

Unless you can get Ichiro back for Thome somehow (or Crawford), but I don't see either of those teams wanting Thome until they're "one player away" from competing.

Then you have the obvious dismissals of Pods, Uribe and Garcia OR Vasquez. And maybe dealing Buehrle or Crede if they won't sign long-term.

Chips
09-03-2006, 05:33 PM
The one constant about the '06 Sox is inconsistency. This team is the most frustrating Sox team ever assembled. Guess what? We'll get our hopes up and our hopes dashed many more times in the next month and as much as this team has underachieved, we still find ourselves in the playoffs if the season ended today.

Who is man enough to gut it out? I'll be tuning in tomorrow... will you?

http://www.cnnsi.com/video/sports/2001/11/25/mora_7116.jpg

Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game.

chisoxmike
09-03-2006, 05:36 PM
Who is man enough to gut it out? I'll be tuning in tomorrow... will you?


I'm going to gut it out tomorrow, for the rest of the season, for 07, and for the rest of my life... but that doesn't mean I can't express my disappointments with a underachieving ballclub.

Palehose13
09-03-2006, 05:37 PM
Exactly. I agree 110%. I remember how indifferent I was toward watching the Sox in September of 2004. I'll take this anyday. Besides, it isn't like every playoff team runs away with it (unless you're the Mets). We're in the toughest division and the toughest race in baseball. It's gonna come down to the final week. I'm still optimistic about our chances. The Sox can do this.:cool:

This post is refreshing.

Pennant races aren't for the weak. :cool:

PKalltheway
09-03-2006, 05:37 PM
Who is man enough to gut it out? I'll be tuning in tomorrow... will you?
I'll be tuning in tomorrow. GO WHITE SOX!!!:D:

PaulDrake
09-03-2006, 05:38 PM
Hawk keeps talking about a lack of intensity. Doesn't the manager have something to do with that?

Last year, Ozzie had guys like Aaron and Carl around. Whatever you think of their talents or abilities, those two guys were intense. Also Aaron provided leadership in the OF--you never saw so many near collisions and mis-communications between outfielders when Aaron was out there, because he took charge and had his teammates respect. (NO, I'm not pining for Aaron's return, just telling it like it is). Carl provided leadership and intensity in the clubhouse and in the dugout no matter what you think of him. (Again, I'm not saying he's better than Thome as a DH, but they never replaced his intensity/leadership.).

Intangibles count.

As for Ozzie, I have never criticized him until today. I never thought he was a great strategic manager, but his ability to keep a team loose and playing well together as a team offset that and made him a good manager, in my opinion. I always liked him. But now that the pitching is no longer lights out, Ozzie's weaknesses are being exposed. His team is playing without intensity indicating maybe his act has gotten old with his players. His ridiculous lineup desisions (Mack in CF for example) and poor in-game handling of his pitching staff are costing games.

Some predicted Ozzie's star would burn brightly but burn out quickly. I didn't think so. Maybe I was wrong and they were correct. Excellent. Best analysis on the 06 White Sox to date IMHO. Especially the part about Ozzie. you've summed his managing style up perfectly. I've been trying to do it for quite some time, but failed to be as descriptive and accurate as you.

The Dude
09-03-2006, 05:43 PM
Any word on the PTC?

TheOldRoman
09-03-2006, 05:45 PM
Any word on the PTC? McCarthy - he closed it out for the Royals.

Chips
09-03-2006, 05:45 PM
Any word on the PTC?

****

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 06:01 PM
Maybe we should start picking PTC for the other teams.

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 06:04 PM
Based on Brandons performance this year ,is he ready to be a starter? I know today wasn't his fault ,but i have mixed feelings on it.

Grzegorz
09-03-2006, 06:05 PM
Atleast were playing a beaten up Red Sox team not a healthy one.

I take no solace in this fact what so ever.

The Red Sox are still going to field a team and we're going to have to exceed their effort. I have faith that Garland will win; he's been quite the road warrior as of late.

Today's game, well what can I say that hasn't already been said. We need a stopper; a big game guy to shut down an opponent like JC did to the Tigers a couple weeks ago. Even when Freddie gave up the three runs I felt the game was withing reach, but that fourth run in addition to Mark Redmond shutting us down (yes Mark Redmond) and I felt the game slip away.

From time to time hitting will slump; but as a whole it is the pitching staff, fundamentals, and defense that should never slump.

I too look to the off season. I hope there is a major shake up with the starters and if that means a position player and Contreras have to go then so be it.

soxwon
09-03-2006, 06:06 PM
So does EVERYONE still think we will win the world series?

BeviBall!
09-03-2006, 06:06 PM
I'm going to gut it out tomorrow, for the rest of the season, for 07, and for the rest of my life... but that doesn't mean I can't express my disappointments with a underachieving ballclub.

Absolutely you can... to be honest, I would too, but I would just find myself saying/typing the same thing almost every time and I want to spare the board from reading another post that echoes the rest. I'm lost. Pretty much this whole second half, I'm completely lost for explanations about this team.

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 06:07 PM
So does EVERYONE still think we will win the world series?

If they get to the playoffs they have as good a chance as anyone.But "if" remains the big question.

soxwon
09-03-2006, 06:10 PM
If they get to the playoffs they have as good a chance as anyone.But "if" remains the big question.

it just seems lately from what i read, most people think its a given we will make the playoffs and win the series.
JUST because we are defending champions.

nothings a given, and unless we really pick it up.
this team will be one round and out.
i really hope thats not the case.

QCIASOXFAN
09-03-2006, 06:10 PM
Based on Brandons performance this year ,is he ready to be a starter? I know today wasn't his fault ,but i have mixed feelings on it.I think so, hes a starter not a relief pitcher. Why wasn't today his fault if I might ask?

1951Campbell
09-03-2006, 06:11 PM
http://www.ontex.be/products/diapers.gif

Jesus, there's a lot of pants-pissing in this thread. Sure, the Sox look pretty bad right now, but I seem to remember the Sox looking pretty bad last year 'round about this time en route to almost coughing up that 15-game thread--no need to get petulant about playoff tickets or start the "what off-season moves do we need to make" threads. Sheesh.

BeviBall!
09-03-2006, 06:12 PM
Well that sucked.

Is the title okay with you, Gavin?

:D: Somewhere, he's throwing up his hands as if to say "finally!"

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 06:13 PM
I think Brandon has the type of game that gets better and better the more he pitches....sometimes, he takes an inning or two to get his control and feel, especially with his offspeed stuff.

He has done very well when he's pitched 2+ innings this season, and he's also well below his IP in terms of the number of hits allowed.

That speaks to his having success as a starter, not to mention his five quality starts down the stretch last year.

QCIASOXFAN
09-03-2006, 06:15 PM
http://www.ontex.be/products/diapers.gif

Jesus, there's a lot of pants-pissing in this thread. Sure, the Sox look pretty bad right now, but I seem to remember the Sox looking pretty bad last year 'round about this time en route to almost coughing up that 15-game thread--no need to get petulant about playoff tickets or start the "what off-season moves do we need to make" threads. Sheesh.I agree with you about the pants pissing, but this team is not the same team as last years team. It is VERY obvious.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 06:17 PM
I would be more worried if OG and KW weren't thinking right now about how to get to the playoffs THIS year. But I'm sure KW has already decided what needs to be done in the offseason...in terms of who he wants to retain.

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 06:18 PM
I think so, hes a starter not a relief pitcher. Why wasn't today his fault if I might ask?

Can't really blame the guy for the run tying bleeder Bako hit.The intentional walk was the right move .Just M.O

TheOldRoman
09-03-2006, 06:19 PM
For anyone who thinks we are going to storm through Boston and suddenly start winning again just because they are injured:

David Ortiz will be back tomorrow...



as will Alex Gonzalez...




and Trot Nixon...




and Jason Varitek.

Even if our great hitting can put up a few runs against the three jokes Boston is throwing out, our pitching is sure to give it right back.

BeviBall!
09-03-2006, 06:22 PM
http://www.ontex.be/products/diapers.gif

Jesus, there's a lot of pants-pissing in this thread. Sure, the Sox look pretty bad right now, but I seem to remember the Sox looking pretty bad last year 'round about this time en route to almost coughing up that 15-game thread--no need to get petulant about playoff tickets or start the "what off-season moves do we need to make" threads. Sheesh.
:rowand

"That's right Campbell. Seeing as I catch everything, I'm catching a sense that many of you are losing faith. I'm ashamed of all of you. As long as I am here in spirit, there's nothing to fear... except the possibility I stay in Philly next year."

Seriously though, 1951 is right. We have a month left. Save the '07 talk for '07.

Grzegorz
09-03-2006, 06:23 PM
Jesus, there's a lot of pants-pissing in this thread. Sure, the Sox look pretty bad right now, but I seem to remember the Sox looking pretty bad last year 'round about this time en route to almost coughing up that 15-game thread--no need to get petulant about playoff tickets or start the "what off-season moves do we need to make" threads. Sheesh.

Yes, but the 2005 White Sox were still an unknown commodity and new to the playoff experience. IMO, much of last year's slump could be attributed to nervousness (being tight).

This year this team is playoff hardened; and the offense was improved.

Expectations are higher and no one ever expected this team to be as inconsistent as it has been. I've seen far less out of this team this year then last to say that they'll turn it on and play consistently for an extended period of time.

If they play well over a stretch they get in; if not they're home for the playoffs.

The 2006 Chicago White Sox are totally unpredictable.

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 06:35 PM
I think what really gets us ,is that the 2006 expectations were or are higher then the 2005 team expectations were.And to see what is happening is a complete letdown.

QCIASOXFAN
09-03-2006, 06:39 PM
The 2006 Chicago White Sox are totally unpredictable.I know what you mean, but on the other hand they are totally predictable. You know the game will start out bad when Pods leads off. You know you are at a distinct disadvantage when we put you know who in center. You know at least 2 of our starters will struggle when they pitch. You know that if we get down we will swing for the fences instead of trying to get on people on base. You know the manager will keep the starters in was to long (to show them confidence). I could go on and on.

ZombieRob
09-03-2006, 06:40 PM
I know what you mean, but on the other hand they are totally predictable. You know the game will start out bad when Pods leads off. You know you are at a distint disadvantage when we put you know who in center. You know at least 2 of our starters will struggle when they pitch. You know that if we get down we will swing for the fences instead of trying to get on people on base. You know the manager will keep the starters in was to long (to show them confidence). I could go on and on.


Don't think anyone could have summed it up better.

wassagstdu
09-03-2006, 06:42 PM
On paper this team is better than last yrs team, well, last years team was good it wasn't great this yrs team is proving that.

Gibberish. This year's players are better, last year's team was better. Last year's team was great. What happen's this year doesn't change that in any way.

.

SOXandILLINI
09-03-2006, 06:42 PM
when will everybody realize we have the 4th or 5th best manager in our division... but according to the man himself, as seen on a mi manure a, he is quite a passionate man in the sack... could he be more full of himself? ozzie is 1 unpolitically correct comment and missing the playoffs away from being canned. his act is wearing thin on his players, and a noticeable erosion of support from the fans, who ate up all his, i say things the way the need to be said crap.

let's face facts, we won last year because our pitching staff, threw it's arse off in the playoffs. we were a very talented team, but probably not the best on paper. now, we are the best on paper, and we are struggling to make the playoffs. without question, the blame has to be shared, these guys make alot of money to get the job done. having said that, these guys aren't idiots either, i can guarantee you that there are guys on this team that just roll their eyes at our manager. but whatever, i want another world championship badly, and my dislike for our manager can't stop me from wanting this intensely, i waited too long for the 1st one, and it felt too good.

i'm sure i will be attacked by the pro ozzie crowd, and i expect that. just remember bob brenley won a world series as a manager, and now is relagated to doing scrub games on wgn. winning a world series, doesn't make you a genius people. it's knowing how to deal with people, handling a pitching staff, and so many subtle things that are too many to mention. the earl weavers and sparky andersons of the world were great managers, imho ozzie isn't even close and will go down in history as such. i do thank him and every member of that team and staff for making last year happen, with this team, it should happen again, i just hope and pray it does.

digdagdug23
09-03-2006, 06:51 PM
It wasn't like in 2003, when all those losses to DET were 1-0 or 2-1 or 3-2, this was just survival as a fan, almost a form of torture or sado-masochism, like when Captain Dan gets up on the boat in the hurricane in Forrest Gump and starts yelling at God, C'mom, bring it on, more pain and suffering, lol!!! You know, I don't think anyone has ever put into words how I feel at this point until now. It's like begging to be dissappointed. Somehow I feel more like a parent with this team than a fan, you know, constantly believing they can do better, looking for pieces of things to string along hope, only to have it dashed a few days later. I take that back though, I would not accept this type of behavior with my kids. Hey, maybe that's it, you think a grounding to their rooms with no cell phones, no computers, and no friends for a week might help?


It would be one thing if we were the Yankees and had 26 Championships... Screw the Yankees, I will take this team in a heartbeat.

That's the beauty of baseball, and why football can never be the same to me. Having to play day after day, week after week, for six months, there's nothing like the highs and lows of that structure as a fan.

I never thought of it this way, but that now makes total sense to me. Now I know why I ultimately prefer baseball to football. The mulling over a game all week long, wondering for 7 days (14 when you have the bye week) can be enough to push you off the ledge quickly. Baseball is such an instant gratification, going quickly from ecstacy to insanity is so schizophrenic at times, but nothing else even compares, except maybe basketball.

Despite the way this sucks right now, at least we don't have to wait another week until the next game. We can simply lose to AAAA pitcher "X" for Boston and go through the same thing again, but every baseball game is like a snowflake or fingerprint, something different..unique, that adds to your enjoyment of the game, something you've never seen. Unfortunately, this season looks like the movie Groundhog Day and every occurence is repeatable and all too familiar for comfort. That's why it's easy to point the finger at Ozzie or KW, because we can only sit back and take it, they can actually try to do something about it.

Can I get an answer from the Amen Chorus?

Amen, Brother Caulfield, Amen!!!

0o0o0
09-03-2006, 06:51 PM
The Sox used the Twins as a model to build that 2005 Champion. I hope they go back to that blueprint for next year.

:?: The blueprint wasn't different. 7 of the 9 regulars in the starting lineup were part of last year's team. It's just that no one expected half the team to forget how to bunt and move runners over.

Paulwny
09-03-2006, 06:53 PM
Gibberish. This year's players are better, last year's team was better. Last year's team was great. What happen's this year doesn't change that in any way.

.

Last yrs team was only as great as the horse shoe that fell out of Ozzie's ass this year. If the sox make it to the play-offs this year, they'll win it all, this will be the mark of a great team.

0o0o0
09-03-2006, 06:55 PM
Last yrs team was only as great as the horse shoe that fell out of Ozzie's ass this year. If the sox make it to the play-offs this year, they'll win it all, this will be the mark of a great team.

To win the World Series, you have to be both lucky AND great.

Paulwny
09-03-2006, 06:57 PM
To win the World Series, you have to be both lucky AND great.

Lucky and have a hot pitching staff during the play-offs.

1951Campbell
09-03-2006, 06:58 PM
I agree with you about the pants pissing, but this team is not the same team as last years team. It is VERY obvious.

I know they're not the same teams. But perhaps we just haven't had our 2006 "Boonewalk" moment yet.

PKalltheway
09-03-2006, 07:00 PM
Wow...with everything I've read here, you'd think this team was 5 games out of the Wild Card with 6 left to play. Look at the standings. We're still up in the Wild Card. We lost 2 of 3 to Kansas City. So did Minnesota. Should we have swept the D-Rays? Yes. Two of three ain't bad though, considering at the same time, Minnesota lost two of three to KC. At home, no less. The Twins got creamed by the Yankees this weekend, losing two of three while we lost two of three to KC. I'm not too concerned because I know this will be a race that will go down to the final week and the Sox will be a part of it. Like I said earlier, it's hard for a team to run away with things. I think the Sox will be alright.

1951Campbell
09-03-2006, 07:00 PM
:rowand

"That's right Campbell. Seeing as I catch everything, I'm catching a sense that many of you are losing faith. I'm ashamed of all of you. As long as I am here in spirit, there's nothing to fear... except the possibility I stay in Philly next year."



:rolling:

0o0o0
09-03-2006, 07:01 PM
Lucky and have a hot pitching staff during the play-offs.

From what I recall, they weren't too shabby during the regular season.

Patrick134
09-03-2006, 07:03 PM
Good hard fought series, just came up short. On to Fenway. Nice job by the sox to battle.

SOXandILLINI
09-03-2006, 07:04 PM
:rolleyes:

0o0o0
09-03-2006, 07:06 PM
Good hard fought series, just came up short. On to Fenway. Nice job by the sox to battle.

:o:

1951Campbell
09-03-2006, 07:07 PM
For anyone who thinks we are going to storm through Boston and suddenly start winning again just because they are injured:

David Ortiz will be back tomorrow...



as will Alex Gonzalez...




and Trot Nixon...




and Jason Varitek.

Even if our great hitting can put up a few runs against the three jokes Boston is throwing out, our pitching is sure to give it right back.

:KW
"Hi, Theo? Yeah, it's Kenny. I heard you got four key players back. I was calling to forfeit the series this week. Yeah. We're just looking forward to 2007."


:rolleyes:

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 07:10 PM
Good hard fought series, just came up short. On to Fenway. Nice job by the sox to battle.

It's reached the point that half the posts either should be in teal or SEEM like they should be in teal, so we're never sure who is actually serious.

Palehose13
09-03-2006, 07:10 PM
http://www.ontex.be/products/diapers.gif

Jesus, there's a lot of pants-pissing in this thread. Sure, the Sox look pretty bad right now, but I seem to remember the Sox looking pretty bad last year 'round about this time en route to almost coughing up that 15-game thread--no need to get petulant about playoff tickets or start the "what off-season moves do we need to make" threads. Sheesh.

I was kidding about the playoff ticket situation. I'm on board with you and don't need no stinkin' diapers. :cool:

1951Campbell
09-03-2006, 07:12 PM
I was kidding about the playoff ticket situation. I'm on board with you and don't need no stinkin' diapers. :cool:

Yeah, I knew you were kidding, but I thought someone else was serious, or maybe I skim the posts too fast. :cool:

Palehose13
09-03-2006, 07:13 PM
Yeah, I knew you were kidding, but I thought someone else was serious, or maybe I skim the posts too fast. :cool:

He might have been, I wasn't sure. I never think it's a "win" situation when the Sox miss the playoffs.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 07:15 PM
Especially since it happens about once every ten years, at best.

I'm just hoping the Marlins get to the playoffs and Loria still dares to fire Girardi.

markopat
09-03-2006, 07:16 PM
I read most of page 1, and half of Page 5 of this thread...

Read this...and root for your team

Fan may refer to the following:

Fan (aficionado) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_%28aficionado%29) (the bracketed word being the Spanish translation), someone who has an intense liking of a sporting club, person, group of persons, work of art, idea, or trend. Short for 'fanatic'Bring on Friggin' Boston...LET's GO SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Believe!

Palehose13
09-03-2006, 07:18 PM
I read most of page 1, and half of Page 5 of this thread...

Read this...and root for your team

Fan may refer to the following:

Fan (aficionado) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_%28aficionado%29) (the bracketed word being the Spanish translation), someone who has an intense liking of a sporting club, person, group of persons, work of art, idea, or trend. Short for 'fanatic'Bring on Friggin' Boston...LET's GO SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Believe!

Wow. With that definition most here aren't even "fans". They just like to come here to bitch about the Sox! :wink:

markopat
09-03-2006, 07:34 PM
Wow. With that definition most here aren't even "fans". They just like to come here to bitch about the Sox! :wink:

THAT's WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! I get tired of reading that crap...Maybe one of the darkclouds can create a site called "White Sox Non-Interactive..."

LET's GO SOX!!!!

Chips
09-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Wow. With that definition most here aren't even "fans". They just like to come here to bitch about the Sox! :wink:

Well said.

NoNeckEra
09-03-2006, 07:40 PM
Well, I just read this entire thread, top to bottom and just to save you time, folks are either at the end of their ropes with Ozzie, and/or questioning heart of this team. Then there are the ever faithful that are thankful that we're still leading the wild card and at least there's something to root for in September.

My take: Take away the name recognition of our starting pitching, and it's the worst in the division right now. Except for Garland, we haven't had a gem out of any of them in ages. Garcia's last gem was in the post-season.

As for needing to take series from the "bad" teams in the league(TB & KC), at least they get an occasional "gem" from their starting pitching, and their hitting has been vastly improved(especially KC).

It's time for Ozzie to shake things up by giving Freddie's next start to McCarthy, or Charlie, and see if we can get a "pick me up" from a starter other than Garland.

As for us fans being "spent" after suffering thru these last two months, I agree. But we fans are just out of shape. We haven't been in a wire to wire race since '67. We either fade away by labor day, or win by 20 games. (Last year didn't get interesting till mid sept).

TheOldRoman
09-03-2006, 07:57 PM
:KW
"Hi, Theo? Yeah, it's Kenny. I heard you got four key players back. I was calling to forfeit the series this week. Yeah. We're just looking forward to 2007."


:rolleyes:
Did I say anywhere we would get swept? I just said that Boston isn't as injured as they were, and they are getting 4 key players back for this series.

Frater Perdurabo
09-03-2006, 08:05 PM
Campbell is right; there are a lot of stewed nappies all over this thread.

I still believe the Sox will make the playoffs, although my belief is based more on faith and less on empirical evidence at this point.

Since Buehrle seems to have fixed whatever was bothering him earlier, and Garland been excellent, I'm just waiting for one among Contreras, Garcia and Vazquez will step up and be the third starter for the playoffs.

For those talking about 2007, I believe that PK has attained (or soon will attain) 5-and-10 status, meaning he has the right to veto any trade. I do agree that he would be most "logical" to trade him in an effort to bring back something of value since Crede (leather), Thome (lefty) and Dye (cheap OF) have greater value to the Sox and are less easily replaced. This is not a knock on Paulie.

Cuck the Fubs
09-03-2006, 08:08 PM
I read most of page 1, and half of Page 5 of this thread...

Read this...and root for your team

Fan may refer to the following:

Fan (aficionado) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_%28aficionado%29) (the bracketed word being the Spanish translation), someone who has an intense liking of a sporting club, person, group of persons, work of art, idea, or trend. Short for 'fanatic'Bring on Friggin' Boston...LET's GO SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Believe!

Amen brother, amen..........

I'd love to see us win the Central, but to be honest, it's not needed. If we win the WC I'm good with that....all we gotta do is get in.

These guys wil answer the bell in the playoffs, I believe now 100% and no matter what happens up or down, I am a White Sox fan for life....

For all the diaper wetters, have you guys forgotten how many god awful seasons we have endured? How many times we buried ourselves by the all star break?

Get your butts in off the ledge, these guys are going to pull it off:D:

Frater Perdurabo
09-03-2006, 08:11 PM
I have a rope and a rafter that any pants-pissers are welcome to borrow.

southside rocks
09-03-2006, 08:14 PM
Wow. With that definition most here aren't even "fans". They just like to come here to bitch about the Sox! :wink:
Hear, hear. And most of those posts aren't the least bit informative, amusing, or entertaining, they're just tiresome.

Fire Ozzie? Fire Ozzie? You know, the sad part is that some people are serious about that idea. Ozzie should be fired -- why? I guess because the Sox record isn't what those posters have determined that it should be.

Managers get fired for the records their clubs have, not for the records that their clubs should have had and didn't. I know that's probably too subtle a distinction for some, but can anybody tell me the last time that a manager was fired in early September with his team 22 games over .500 and leading in the wild-card race?

To the "fire Ozzie" contingent, I say: sober up or belt it up, the lot of you. I'm begging you, because my only other option is to avoid this site, and there are some posters here that I do like to read.

As for the game: once again, it is clear that better pitching must be forthcoming if the Sox are to make it to the post-season. But I'm sure that some public floggings -- starting with Podsednik and Mackowiak-- would provide the motivation that the hurlers seem to lack.

I wasn't around here last year, but was it worse than this? Yikes! :(:

Chips
09-03-2006, 08:19 PM
I wasn't around here last year, but was it worse than this? Yikes! :(:


Yes.

SluggersAway
09-03-2006, 08:57 PM
Managers get fired for the records their clubs have, not for the records that their clubs should have had and didn't.

Managers get fired for their decisions on the field, many of Ozzie's have been quite questionable.

I'm not calling for Ozzie's head, but cool the melodramatic tone of your post.

cheezheadsoxfan
09-03-2006, 09:00 PM
Amen brother, amen..........

I'd love to see us win the Central, but to be honest, it's not needed. If we win the WC I'm good with that....all we gotta do is get in.

These guys wil answer the bell in the playoffs, I believe now 100% and no matter what happens up or down, I am a White Sox fan for life....

For all the diaper wetters, have you guys forgotten how many god awful seasons we have endured? How many times we buried ourselves by the all star break?

Get your butts in off the ledge, these guys are going to pull it off:D:

Hear, Hear!! I work with mostly Brewer fans and a few Cubs fans. When I come in whining about a loss they roll their eyes. Even if the Sox don't pull it off (although I feel they will) I've still got a reason to watch baseball in September. They have moved on to the Packers and the Bears.

As a lifetime Sox fan I've been thru a lot worse than having a team still in the hunt in September.

StillMissOzzie
09-03-2006, 09:04 PM
I just got home from the game - the Kane County Cougars game, that is. At least they are already a lock for post-season play, having won their first half wild card. But I did get to see the first 8 innings of the Sox game before we left.

Lip, I think you used the term schizoid Sox, so I'd like to sorta kinda borrow that to coin this term: the 2006 Chicago White Schizox

Geez, 3-3 against the bottom feeders of the AL, and that easily could have been 2-4. Got to see it all in the KC series, too: lame defense, bad starters, worse bullpen, and crappy hitting. Did I leave anything out?

Someone else said that pennant races are not for the weak. Well, just who is "the weak" here, the fans or the 2006 Chicago White Schizox? Pissing away opportunities to gain ground won't get it done, and time is NOT our friend.

SMO
:angry:

TornLabrum
09-03-2006, 09:07 PM
Managers get fired for their decisions on the field, many of Ozzie's have been quite questionable.

I'm not calling for Ozzie's head, but cool the melodramatic tone of your post.

Um...I'd say it's the "fire Ozzie" posts that are melodramatic.

SluggersAway
09-03-2006, 09:13 PM
Um...I'd say it's the "fire Ozzie" posts that are melodramatic.
Funny, I don't see any posts calling for Ozzie's immediate replacement except for one guy who may or may not have been kidding.

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 09:18 PM
Funny, I don't see any posts calling for Ozzie's immediate replacement.

Well, I posted "Fire Ozzie" seconds after the game ended. I was quite pissed at the moment and posted out of anger. While I'll admit that particular post was over the top, I stand by all my other posts in this thread.

BTW, again, I've been a supporter of Ozzie up until today. Today's game has started to push me toward the opposite camp, however.

NoNeckEra
09-03-2006, 09:19 PM
Just think what poor shape we'd be in if it wasn't for Jenks.

SluggersAway
09-03-2006, 09:22 PM
...my only other option is to avoid this site...

Oh nooooo. Bye bye.

soxinem1
09-03-2006, 09:36 PM
All I know is that the Twins and Tigers are showing signs of the armor being dented, and we cannot do anything with that regression because we've been losing with them.

And now that the Tigers have lost tonight, we are right were we were a month ago.

Hey, if we back door into the playoffs playing like this, we will do no better than the BoSox last year who scored a ton of runs and dealt with a struggling pitching staff and crapy defense all season.

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 09:41 PM
All I know is that the Twins and Tigers are showing signs of the armor being dented, and we cannot do anything with that regression because we've been losing with them.

And now that the Tigers have lost tonight, we are right were we were a month ago.

Unfortunately we're at the point in the season where every day that they only keep pace without gaining any ground is a negative for the Sox.

Games are ticking off the schedule and each game is bigger and bigger.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 09:42 PM
The difference is that we can match up well enough with the Yankees to beat them in a short series, if we get the pitching from Buehrle and Contreras. And we've even laid the groundwork by knocking a couple of dents in the invincibility of Rivera.

Obviously, a big IF there about our starting pitching. If you read the notes from the game (chisox.com), Cooper's convinced we've turned the corner. Then again, Cooper is like the Tariq Aziz of spin when it comes to our pitching staff. He probably thinks Cotts is going to be reliable down the stretch after today's outing.

Nobody wants to face the A's though. They're going to be dangerous if Loiaza continues on this "2003-esque" roll he's been on.

Myrtle72
09-03-2006, 09:43 PM
An excerpt from an article on the White Sox homepage about today's game:

"But even with Garcia allowing five runs on eight hits over seven-plus innings during Kansas City's 7-3 victory Sunday afternoon at Kauffman Stadium, not exactly a prototypical quality start, White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper firmly believes his staff is rounding back into form for the final month's playoff push. In fact, Cooper has witnessed the change for the better coming for a couple of weeks.

"I've actually seen it coming for a while," said Cooper, whose trio of starters allowed 10 earned runs on 24 hits over 18-plus innings against the Royals. "While that may not transfer a lot of times into wins, I've seen what the starters are doing on their sideline days."

Does anyone think he realizes that the sideline days don't get them into the playoffs?

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 09:45 PM
An excerpt from an article on the White Sox homepage about today's game:

"But even with Garcia allowing five runs on eight hits over seven-plus innings during Kansas City's 7-3 victory Sunday afternoon at Kauffman Stadium, not exactly a prototypical quality start, White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper firmly believes his staff is rounding back into form for the final month's playoff push. In fact, Cooper has witnessed the change for the better coming for a couple of weeks.

"I've actually seen it coming for a while," said Cooper, whose trio of starters allowed 10 earned runs on 24 hits over 18-plus innings against the Royals. "While that may not transfer a lot of times into wins, I've seen what the starters are doing on their sideline days."

Does anyone think he realizes that the sideline days don't get them into the playoffs?

He said the same thing about Contreras looking encouraging in his sideline work coming into this Friday's start...and Ozzie was encouragd too after their "heart-to-heart" conversation. Who knows anymore?

DickAllen72
09-03-2006, 09:47 PM
Does anyone think he realizes that the sideline days don't get them into the playoffs?

Yeah but they'd kick Prior's and Wood's asses if they pitched against them in simulated games! :tongue:

SluggersAway
09-03-2006, 09:47 PM
Myrtle, that is called the fine art of public relations.

Put the best spin you can on the event in question and move on.

Myrtle72
09-03-2006, 09:48 PM
I read an article about the all-star game recently where Ozzie made it clear to the team that he wasn't going to play everyone just because they wanted to be a part of the game. He was going to play the people he thought could win it and the people who weren't going to help them win were going to have to sit out.

I wonder what happened to that attitude...

Lip Man 1
09-03-2006, 09:50 PM
Myrtle:

What Cooper says to the media and what he says behind closed doors may be two totally different things.

Remember he works for the White Sox...they pay him (and by proxy his family.) Unless you are a very rare (or rich) individual you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Lip

spiffie
09-03-2006, 09:53 PM
2005 Pitching Staff ERA - 3.61
2006 Pitching Staff ERA - 4.55

Change that ERA to within 1/2 run of last year's number and all this talk about "Trade Konerko", "Fire Ozzie", "We need more smallball", "we need Rowand back", "replace Anderson/Pods/Mackowiak/Uribe/Widger/Alomar/Gload/Cintron", "there's no fire and they don't care" and any other thing you can think of ceases to be relevant. There's only one thing that makes you win in baseball, and that's good pitching. All the bunts, overturned tables, and DFA's in the world won't change the fact that our starting pitching is mostly a spent force at this point. If for 4/5 of the starters it is simply that they left it all on the table in 2005, well I'm first to say I'm glad to make that deal. I don't know if we will back into the playoffs or not. Hell, we could even get lucky and win it all. But I know if we fail, the onus lies on one place and that's the pitchers mound. Everything else is secondary. Ozzie could swear in Spanish while cutting Cotts and flipping a buffet table at Podsednik and banning Questec while holding bunting practice all at the same time and it won't matter if we give up 7 runs a game.

SluggersAway
09-03-2006, 09:54 PM
Um...I'd say it's the "fire Ozzie" posts that are melodramatic.

Admit it, you didn't even read the thread, there are no "fire Ozzie posts" in the plural.

One fan made mention of the fact moments after the game which he has subsequently said was over the top.

Another melodramatic response.

Ready to apologize?

Myrtle72
09-03-2006, 09:55 PM
Ozzie could swear in Spanish while cutting Cotts and flipping a buffet table at Podsednik and banning Questec while holding bunting practice all at the same time

Haha. That would be pretty funny.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 09:59 PM
2005 Pitching Staff ERA - 3.61
2006 Pitching Staff ERA - 4.55

Change that ERA to within 1/2 run of last year's number and all this talk about "Trade Konerko", "Fire Ozzie", "We need more smallball", "we need Rowand back", "replace Anderson/Pods/Mackowiak/Uribe/Widger/Alomar/Gload/Cintron", "there's no fire and they don't care" and any other thing you can think of ceases to be relevant. There's only one thing that makes you win in baseball, and that's good pitching. All the bunts, overturned tables, and DFA's in the world won't change the fact that our starting pitching is mostly a spent force at this point. If for 4/5 of the starters it is simply that they left it all on the table in 2005, well I'm first to say I'm glad to make that deal. I don't know if we will back into the playoffs or not. Hell, we could even get lucky and win it all. But I know if we fail, the onus lies on one place and that's the pitchers mound. Everything else is secondary. Ozzie could swear in Spanish while cutting Cotts and flipping a buffet table at Podsednik and banning Questec while holding bunting practice all at the same time and it won't matter if we give up 7 runs a game.

At least I got a laugh out of that one, as I was imagining Ozzie "cutting" Cotts with some kind of knife badly enough he would have to go on the DL for the remainder of the season...but they would do a magical transfusion like in that ridiculous movie "The Rookie of the Year" and Cotts would come back throwing harder than Zumaya next year.

1951Campbell
09-03-2006, 10:09 PM
I still believe the Sox will make the playoffs, although my belief is based more on faith and less on empirical evidence at this point.



And for some reason that's how I feel. The only empirical point I can make is that it seems pretty obvious that the division has devolved into a situation where the Sox, Twins, and Tigers are having some sort of contest to see who can back their way into the playoffs in the most inelegant way possible. It's a Mexican standoff of incompetence. But if that's the case, my money's on the Sox to get in and the Twins to be odd man out. Detroit has too much of a lead to blow it completely; the Sox have recent experience with playing poorly but seeing a turnaround when their backs are to the wall; the Twins, however, have had their spate of playing out of their minds and they're going down the backside of that mountain.

TornLabrum
09-03-2006, 11:04 PM
Admit it, you didn't even read the thread, there are no "fire Ozzie posts" in the plural.

One fan made mention of the fact moments after the game which he has subsequently said was over the top.

Another melodramatic response.

Ready to apologize?

I don't know. Are you ready to be banned?

Edit: Before somebody misunderstands this, I'm as ready to do any apologizing as you are to do the what I asked.

This isn't the first "Ozzie is an idiot," or "Fire Ozzie" post we've seen this year. This isn't the first dark cloud crap we've seen at WSI. So yes, I've read the entire thread. I'm referring to a general class of posts, not one in particular. And no, I'm not apologizing to you or anyone else.

Additional edit: I just noticed this was your second response to the same post. It could be deduced that the reason you upped the rhetoric was because your first response didn't elicit any comment from me. Consider this to be my only response.

A. Cavatica
09-03-2006, 11:05 PM
I know if we fail, the onus lies on one place and that's the pitchers mound. Everything else is secondary.

Yes, the pitching has been bad. The offense has been better than last year.

The problem many of us have with Ozzie is that he has not shown the ability to think on his feet. He made his rotation and he's sticking to it, despite lots of opportunities to mix in another starter and see if he might be better. He always tries to leave his starters in to get a win, which worked last year when they were lights out, but which has backfired repeatedly this year. He kept going to Politte and Cotts long after it was clear they had lost their magic.

And it's not just pitching. Using Mackowiak in center has cost several games. Asking players to bunt who can't bunt, relying on lefty-righty matchups when the odds contradict it, being aggressive on the bases against good defensive teams...all are evidence that Ozzie has a preconceived notion of how the game should be played, and the limitations of the players involved are secondary.

Being stubborn is not a fatal flaw in a manager, or at least not one coming off a World Championship. But I'd sure like to see him solve some of our season-long problems instead of just blaming the players.

Lip Man 1
09-03-2006, 11:21 PM
A:

In some ways he has blamed the players but I disagree that it has been anything as pointed as last season and to me that's a big part of the issue. He is accepting things as they are instead of trying to make them better.

Ozzie needs to become the horse's ass that he was at times in 2005. The players seem to respond to it.

Lip

Hitmen77
09-03-2006, 11:36 PM
I said on Thursday afternoon (when I found out that the Sox offense slept in again and gave us another loss against a horrible pitcher) that we would lose at least 1, but probably 2 to the Royals....

The season won't officially end for a month, but we all know where it is going. ......

This team is not going to turn it around. After playing like **** and "just staking by" for 5 months, they are not suddenly going to have great starting pitching, a solid bullpen, and most importantly, a consistant offense that can crush bad pitching. Face it. The only way the Sox make the playoffs is if the Twins imlpode. Yes, the Twins and Tigers had bad weeks, too, but they played the Yankees, and the Tigers played the Angels, too. This was our "easy week", where we were supposed to gain ground, because we have a tougher schedule than the Twins and Tigers the rest of the way out....

Actually, the Twins faltering is a very plausible scenario. Remember, they also lost 2 of 3 to the Royals - at home, where they've previously been practically unbeatable. Our starting rotation may be flat out underachieving except for Garland, but their's is a wreck except for Santana. Alot may depend on what happens with Liriano. We'll see.....

A. Cavatica
09-03-2006, 11:37 PM
Lip:

Can you cite some examples from last season of what you think is missing?

slobes
09-03-2006, 11:37 PM
Ozzie needs to become the horse's ass that he was at times in 2005. The players seem to respond to it.

Lip

For a few times in the past couple months, it's looked like once Ozzie flips out, the Sox look like they did in 2005 for a few brief games. We need more of htat.

The Dude
09-03-2006, 11:41 PM
Admit it, you didn't even read the thread, there are no "fire Ozzie posts" in the plural.

One fan made mention of the fact moments after the game which he has subsequently said was over the top.

Another melodramatic response.

Ready to apologize?
Fire Ozzie post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1327907#post1327907)

Agreement post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1327935#post1327935)

I don't care if one recanted, there are two posts claiming the same thing. If someone agrees 100%, they are essentially posting the same idiotic thing.:rolleyes:

chisoxmike
09-03-2006, 11:42 PM
Fire Ozzie post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1327907#post1327907)

Agreement post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1327935#post1327935)

I don't care if one recanted, there are two posts claiming the same thing. If someone agrees 100%, they are essentially posting the same thing.:rolleyes:

The person that agreed with the stupid fire Ozzie post also thinks the Sox should get Corey Patterson.:rolleyes:

Hitmen77
09-03-2006, 11:44 PM
even if,i mean if,makes the playoffs it will three and done!

:cleo

Just make the playoffs - that's what I say.

After that, you never know what can happen. It wasn't too long ago that the Sox took 5 out of 6 from NY and Detroit.

Hitmen77
09-03-2006, 11:51 PM
Yesterday's post-game victory thread: 52 responses.

Today's loss thread (including my post): 64 responses.


Gotta love Sox fans. :D:

GMAB. Sox fans sure love to complain. The latest thing to bitch about at WSI is the post count on days we win.

No offense, I'm not directing this at you - just aimed more generally at posters here. It seems like someone here makes this comment after every victory. Everybody, give it a rest already!

Credefan21
09-04-2006, 12:36 AM
Ok... The longer I have read this thread the more angry I have become. It makes me ******* sick how some of you can be pollyannas about the way the Sox have been playing and still thing everything is ok. :angry: All of this "the pitching will turn around, we haven't hit our hot point yet, etc." Wow, I guess denial is the only way to go with some of you right? We lost the series to the Royals... We haven't played them that great all year. All you people who have your heads up your own *** or the sand need to wake up and see that it is September 4th...... The pitching probably will not be fixed until next season and will not hit a real long consistent streak. We are in trouble here. Can we still make the playoffs? Yeah we can, but to not worry about it is completely childish. And to call someone the stupid overused word "dark cloud" is even more stupid. I agree with the people that are ready for the season to be over. What's done is done this year. Next year is when things will probably be fixed. Here is to hoping the Sox can hold on and make the playoffs. Go Sox.:angry:

Patrick134
09-04-2006, 12:51 AM
Ok... The longer I have read this thread the more angry I have become. It makes me ******* sick how some of you can be pollyannas about the way the Sox have been playing and still thing everything is ok. :angry: All of this "the pitching will turn around, we haven't hit our hot point yet, etc." Wow, I guess denial is the only way to go with some of you right? We lost the series to the Royals... We haven't played them that great all year. All you people who have your heads up your own *** or the sand need to wake up and see that it is September 4th...... The pitching probably will not be fixed until next season and will not hit a real long consistent streak. We are in trouble here. Can we still make the playoffs? Yeah we can, but to not worry about it is completely childish. And to call someone the stupid overused word "dark cloud" is even more stupid. I agree with the people that are ready for the season to be over. What's done is done this year. Next year is when things will probably be fixed. Here is to hoping the Sox can hold on and make the playoffs. Go Sox.:angry:


What does this post accomplish, or even have to say ? You're worried the sox may not win it all again ? get over it. it's a game.

JB98
09-04-2006, 01:53 AM
Campbell is right; there are a lot of stewed nappies all over this thread.

I still believe the Sox will make the playoffs, although my belief is based more on faith and less on empirical evidence at this point.

Since Buehrle seems to have fixed whatever was bothering him earlier, and Garland been excellent, I'm just waiting for one among Contreras, Garcia and Vazquez will step up and be the third starter for the playoffs.

For those talking about 2007, I believe that PK has attained (or soon will attain) 5-and-10 status, meaning he has the right to veto any trade. I do agree that he would be most "logical" to trade him in an effort to bring back something of value since Crede (leather), Thome (lefty) and Dye (cheap OF) have greater value to the Sox and are less easily replaced. This is not a knock on Paulie.

Crede is the most likely to be traded because we have a 3B in the minor leagues who is ready for a shot at the big-league level. And for all you small-ball freaks out there, Fields can run. He'll steal his fair share of bases before all is said and done.

But I'm not thinking about 2007 right now.

Nellie_Fox
09-04-2006, 01:59 AM
I'd like to sorta kinda borrow that to coin this term: the 2006 Chicago White Schizox
http://entimg.msn.com/i/mu/s/SnoopDogg/snoop_dogg_150v2.jpg

kitekrazy
09-04-2006, 02:09 AM
Crede is the most likely to be traded because we have a 3B in the minor leagues who is ready for a shot at the big-league

I think there would have to be more reasoning to do that. If we wre the Pirates I could see that.

Maybe with Crede gone they could push that team ERA up to 6.00.

I just don't see that happening unless it's an unbelievable trade. This not like trading Thome for Rowand.

JB98
09-04-2006, 02:11 AM
All right. I've read all 14 pages now.

Garcia just got outpitched by Redman today. Freddy made more mistakes; the Royals made him pay. The hanging breaking ball to Shealy was atrocious. I really thought we would come back and win until Bako hit that ****ty little infield single in the eighth. I believe I screamed, "You've gotta be ****ing kidding me!" at the top of my lungs when that happened. Unreal. That let the air out of the bag for the Sox.

This was a disappointing week, but not a surprising one. I remember we had a thread last Monday talking about the need to go 6-0 against these bottom-feeders. Most people said they wanted 5-1. I said I'd be thrilled with 4-2. I was one of the most negative people in the thread, and even I was too optimistic. Sigh...

There is still time to get something going, but my confidence in this team is waning with each passing day. This pitching staff just doesn't appear to be up to the task. On days where we struggle offensively, they cannot keep us in games. If we can somehow get in the playoffs, we can shorten our rotation to Garland, Buerhle and a Latin pitcher to be named later, and we'll have a shot. But qualifying for the playoffs with only one or two reliable starters is going to be a tricky proposition to say the least.

Interesting that Hawk is calling out the Sox for a lack of intensity, but I've yet to hear him hold Ozzie accountable for this perceived problem.

JB98
09-04-2006, 02:20 AM
I think there would have to be more reasoning to do that. If we wre the Pirates I could see that.

Maybe with Crede gone they could push that team ERA up to 6.00.

I just don't see that happening unless it's an unbelievable trade. This not like trading Thome for Rowand.

I don't think I'd trade Crede. Nor would I trade Dye, Konerko or Thome. But then again, I like power hitters. Quite a few on WSI seem angry about the "base-pluggers" in the middle of our lineup. It's true that we are pretty slow three through seven in the batting order. But if KW is going to move any of these guys, he's going to have to find a competent replacement. Easier said than done.

There's no chance in hell Dye is going anywhere. He is the lowest-salaried league MVP I've seen in years. We don't have a 1B/DH in our system who could come close to replacing Konerko or Thome. We do have a good young third baseman in Charlotte though, so I wouldn't be surprised if KW considers dealing Crede. Our maybe he'll just trade Fields for a new leadoff hitter.

Credefan21
09-04-2006, 02:23 AM
What does this post accomplish, or even have to say ? You're worried the sox may not win it all again ? get over it. it's a game.

And what is the point of your pollyanna thread about The Sox put up a good battle or whatever. That is just a stupid thing to say.

wassagstdu
09-04-2006, 07:35 AM
Hear, hear. And most of those posts aren't the least bit informative, amusing, or entertaining, they're just tiresome.

Fire Ozzie? Fire Ozzie? You know, the sad part is that some people are serious about that idea. Ozzie should be fired -- why? I guess because the Sox record isn't what those posters have determined that it should be.

Managers get fired for the records their clubs have, not for the records that their clubs should have had and didn't. I know that's probably too subtle a distinction for some, but can anybody tell me the last time that a manager was fired in early September with his team 22 games over .500 and leading in the wild-card race?

To the "fire Ozzie" contingent, I say: sober up or belt it up, the lot of you. I'm begging you, because my only other option is to avoid this site, and there are some posters here that I do like to read.

As for the game: once again, it is clear that better pitching must be forthcoming if the Sox are to make it to the post-season. But I'm sure that some public floggings -- starting with Podsednik and Mackowiak-- would provide the motivation that the hurlers seem to lack.
I just wanted to second this post. And does anyone have a definition of "loyalty" handy? Seems to me that for some of "us" the Sox winning or losing is all about us, not them. "How could they do this to ME? Don't they know I am going to have to listen to criticism from Cub fans?" Great performance last year? First championship in 88 years? Even compared to the '27 Yankees? May not repeat? Screw the bastards!

.

balke
09-04-2006, 08:50 AM
At least Detroit hasn't gained any ground. I still think the Sox can catch these guys, our division as a whole is slumping. The Sox need to keep their heads above water, and take two from Detroit in the coming series. Hopefully they can chip away at this lead throughout September, and snag it away from the Tigers in the last 5 games of the season.

Jose, Garcia... pitch like the playoffs guys, come on.

Jerko
09-04-2006, 09:00 AM
GMAB. Sox fans sure love to complain. The latest thing to bitch about at WSI is the post count on days we win.

No offense, I'm not directing this at you - just aimed more generally at posters here. It seems like someone here makes this comment after every victory. Everybody, give it a rest already!

I agree. For one, there's more to talk about after a loss regarding managerial decisions or lack of fundamentals or ****hole pitching. When the Sox win, even if something bad happened during the game, nobody cares because they won. Also, go to any team's message board and I am SURE there are more bitchy posts after a loss than there are "Hey we're great" posts after a win. :rolleyes: It's not just Sox fans.

southside rocks
09-04-2006, 09:07 AM
I'm sorry, I should have phrased my first post more clearly. I was kind of annoyed when I wrote it -- by the "fire Ozzie" posts I meant posts not only in this thread but in other threads, and posts that lambast Ozzie for just bizarre things, like a Garcia win being more important to him than a White Sox win.

I meant the posts that boil down to "someone must be scourged because the White Sox are not 30 games over .500, and let's start with Ozzie." And that's not every post that questions Ozzie's lineups or strategies, by a long shot.

I read most of the rest of this thread this morning, and two things are clear to me: One -- the day that any poster on an internet board knows more about managing a major league ball club than Ozzie Guillen is the day that I can take over for Joe Crede at third base. Two -- it's as silly to get angry about dumb posts as it is to get angry about a lost ballgame. Neither of them are within my control, and anger is just too corrosive an emotion to be invoked over something this petty.

So, instead of complaining about the posts that seem really dumb or whiny, I'll stop taking those posts at all seriously, and just laugh my ass off at them, which I should have done to begin with. My bad.

And if any of the posters who are just angry and fed up with the Sox have season tickets, I think you should show your anger by not renewing those tickets for 2007. That will do two things: save you from seeing the games that enrage you so much, and give me a chance to improve my own season seats.

:tongue:

southside rocks
09-04-2006, 09:10 AM
At least Detroit hasn't gained any ground. I still think the Sox can catch these guys, our division as a whole is slumping. The Sox need to keep their heads above water, and take two from Detroit in the coming series. Hopefully they can chip away at this lead throughout September, and snag it away from the Tigers in the last 5 games of the season.

Jose, Garcia... pitch like the playoffs guys, come on.
The Tigers/Angels game was on ESPN last night; did you watch? What a great game! Some excellent pitching -- Escobar was just awesome. Nice win by the Angels, who are trying to keep their own playoff hopes alive.

Detroit is 9 games under .500 in their last 25 games. I think they've hit their tailspin. I hope it runs another couple of weeks.

SOXSINCE'70
09-04-2006, 09:16 AM
I'm going to gut it out tomorrow, for the rest of the season, for 07, and for the rest of my life... but that doesn't mean I can't express my disappointments with a underachieving ballclub.

I second that.I'll watch the rest of the season,
but I will express my disappointments with the team
when they play "sucky" baseball.:angry:

Ziggy S
09-04-2006, 09:34 AM
Obviously, a big IF there about our starting pitching. If you read the notes from the game (chisox.com), Cooper's convinced we've turned the corner. Then again, Cooper is like the Tariq Aziz of spin when it comes to our pitching staff. He probably thinks Cotts is going to be reliable down the stretch after today's outing.

.

Are you sure you don't mean this guy?

:sahaf

"Yes, thank you Ziggy for this chance to speak. Javy has been a Cy Young candidate and Cotts and Freddy deserve contract extensions. The Pale Hose swept that team in Missouri from the AL. The American media is telling all of you lies writing and saying otherwise."

DaveIsHere
09-04-2006, 09:38 AM
Detroit is 9 games under .500 in their last 25 games. I think they've hit their tailspin. I hope it runs another couple of weeks.

Too bad the Sox havent been able to take full advantage of that. Hopefully it is not too late. This team needs to start a run, and it has to begin now, otherwise it will be too late.

It almost seems like the Sox look up at the scoreboard and see the Twins losing and then do not play as hard since they wont lose any ground. Quite frustrating as you all know.

TornLabrum
09-04-2006, 10:18 AM
Fire Ozzie post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1327907#post1327907)

Agreement post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1327935#post1327935)

I don't care if one recanted, there are two posts claiming the same thing. If someone agrees 100%, they are essentially posting the same idiotic thing.:rolleyes:

So I'm sure Sluggers is ready to apologize. :rolleyes:

Palehose13
09-04-2006, 10:20 AM
Ok... The longer I have read this thread the more angry I have become. It makes me ******* sick how some of you can be pollyannas about the way the Sox have been playing and still thing everything is ok. :angry: All of this "the pitching will turn around, we haven't hit our hot point yet, etc." Wow, I guess denial is the only way to go with some of you right? We lost the series to the Royals... We haven't played them that great all year. All you people who have your heads up your own *** or the sand need to wake up and see that it is September 4th...... The pitching probably will not be fixed until next season and will not hit a real long consistent streak. We are in trouble here. Can we still make the playoffs? Yeah we can, but to not worry about it is completely childish. And to call someone the stupid overused word "dark cloud" is even more stupid. I agree with the people that are ready for the season to be over. What's done is done this year. Next year is when things will probably be fixed. Here is to hoping the Sox can hold on and make the playoffs. Go Sox.:angry:

Excuse me? You think it is childish that I still have hope, yet you post **** like this? Who is the one being childish? Will it make you feel better if I post like over half the posters here with a "chicken little" theme?

southside rocks
09-04-2006, 10:28 AM
Excuse me? You think it is childish that I still have hope, yet you post **** like this? Who is the one being childish? Will it make you feel better if I post like over half the posters here with a "chicken little" theme?
I don't know about you, PH13, but I find that a seething anger and a burning hatred are a big part of what being a baseball fan is all about! ROTFLMAO! :nuts:

Ah, youth ... :tongue:

Palehose13
09-04-2006, 10:42 AM
I don't know about you, PH13, but I find that a seething anger and a burning hatred are a big part of what being a baseball fan is all about! ROTFLMAO! :nuts:

Ah, youth ... :tongue:

Yeah, really. I mean if it is causing you this much stress and anger to watch the Sox, maybe some people should not watch. I'm not saying this to be an ass, but for health reasons. For me being a baseball fan is a fun past time, but if it ever starts to have a negative affect on my well being...I'm going to walk away for a little bit.

cheezheadsoxfan
09-04-2006, 10:52 AM
I just wanted to second this post. And does anyone have a definition of "loyalty" handy? Seems to me that for some of "us" the Sox winning or losing is all about us, not them. "How could they do this to ME? Don't they know I am going to have to listen to criticism from Cub fans?" Great performance last year? First championship in 88 years? Even compared to the '27 Yankees? May not repeat? Screw the bastards!

.

Well said.

Brian26
09-04-2006, 10:59 AM
At least Detroit hasn't gained any ground. I still think the Sox can catch these guys, our division as a whole is slumping. The Sox need to keep their heads above water, and take two from Detroit in the coming series. Hopefully they can chip away at this lead throughout September, and snag it away from the Tigers in the last 5 games of the season.

Taking two from Detroit will only gain them one game in the standings. At this point, if they want to win the Central, they're going to have to sweep the Tigers.

Brian26
09-04-2006, 11:03 AM
Yes, the pitching has been bad. The offense has been better than last year.

Some aspects of the offense have been better, some haven't. Situational hitting, sacrifice bunts, and stolen bases, for example, are not the same.

digdagdug23
09-04-2006, 11:09 AM
Here's the way I see things, in my own little corner of the world.

I am a Sox fan, born into this family innocently; and of my own free will continued this love affair with the city of Chicago, and her teams. Through thick and thin, thin or flush, I have followed the heartbreaks (oh so many) with as much intensity as the oh-so-sweet jubilations. The ecstacy that I have experienced with the Bulls, Bears, and Sox is more joy than I could ever hope to attain in my fan-dom, and is the reason I continue to follow through the disparaging times. The hope that once again my favorite team will raise the trophy in victory, receive the spoils of all that winning entails.

Perhaps one reason I become so disheartened by losses is the past victories, the seasons that seem sweet in retrospect, but when dissected can become as diluted as the worst of the seasons before. But perspective does that, gives you the view of only what sweetness there was, not the plummets that came before, and thus renews your faith in the 'team'.

This is the reason many of us return, time and time again, expressing our joy, our utter frustration, and the in-between feelings. To be a fan is to not only hoist your team up in victory, but to love them despite the flaws. Love of your team, and dedication to whit is to be able to voice your concerns with your fellow fans, enjoy the victories with each other, and console one another during the more prevalent dissappointing times.

I know many are annoyed by some who come on the boards to voice concerns, rant for a few moments on the current status of the 'team', but I look at it as a momentary lapse in sanity. For a second we get caught up in the disparity remembering the pure and unadulterated joy we felt only a short time ago. No matter the team, town, fans, we all feel the same emotions (except for the Yankees fans, I think they have sold their souls :redneck ).

Just remember when you feel that utter despair, how lucky you have been to witness what happened to the Sox in 2005, so many even greater fans than us died before ever knowing what we were lucky enough to experience, or the mere children who will grow in to fans and may never fully experience what we had the chance to witness and be a part of.

I am, and always will be a full-fledged fan on my teams, and may be bordering on insanity with love of my teams, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Now let's go kick some BoSox a**!!!!!!

NoNeckEra
09-04-2006, 11:09 AM
The Tigers/Angels game was on ESPN last night; did you watch? What a great game! Some excellent pitching --
Excellent pitching. What's that?

Patrick134
09-04-2006, 11:14 AM
Taking two from Detroit will only gain them one game in the standings. At this point, if they want to win the Central, they're going to have to sweep the Tigers.

If the twinkies somehow sweep the tiggers this coming weekend, you could see an actual 3 team race for the division crown.

MarySwiss
09-04-2006, 11:29 AM
Here's the way I see things, in my own little corner of the world.

I am a Sox fan, born into this family innocently; and of my own free will continued this love affair with the city of Chicago, and her teams. Through thick and thin, thin or flush, I have followed the heartbreaks (oh so many) with as much intensity as the oh-so-sweet jubilations. The ecstacy that I have experienced with the Bulls, Bears, and Sox is more joy than I could ever hope to attain in my fan-dom, and is the reason I continue to follow through the disparaging times. The hope that once again my favorite team will raise the trophy in victory, receive the spoils of all that winning entails.

Perhaps one reason I become so disheartened by losses is the past victories, the seasons that seem sweet in retrospect, but when dissected can become as diluted as the worst of the seasons before. But perspective does that, gives you the view of only what sweetness there was, not the plummets that came before, and thus renews your faith in the 'team'.

This is the reason many of us return, time and time again, expressing our joy, our utter frustration, and the in-between feelings. To be a fan is to not only hoist your team up in victory, but to love them despite the flaws. Love of your team, and dedication to whit is to be able to voice your concerns with your fellow fans, enjoy the victories with each other, and console one another during the more prevalent dissappointing times.

I know many are annoyed by some who come on the boards to voice concerns, rant for a few moments on the current status of the 'team', but I look at it as a momentary lapse in sanity. For a second we get caught up in the disparity remembering the pure and unadulterated joy we felt only a short time ago. No matter the team, town, fans, we all feel the same emotions (except for the Yankees fans, I think they have sold their souls :redneck ).

Just remember when you feel that utter despair, how lucky you have been to witness what happened to the Sox in 2005, so many even greater fans than us died before ever knowing what we were lucky enough to experience, or the mere children who will grow in to fans and may never fully experience what we had the chance to witness and be a part of.

I am, and always will be a full-fledged fan on my teams, and may be bordering on insanity with love of my teams, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Now let's go kick some BoSox a**!!!!!!

Well said, Digdagdug! :thumbsup:

Credefan21
09-04-2006, 11:32 AM
I don't think its childish to have hope. Because I do have hope, I never said that I didn't. I just think it is childish when people like Patrick have their heads in the sand and say "good battle" in a game where nothing was positive. Pollyannas are childish, not people with hope.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 11:35 AM
Excellent pitching. What's that?

How many AL pitching staffs would you rather have than ours? Name em? List the 5 guys pitching the next 5 games for each team you'd rather have over ours. I can name one - maybe two.

HotelWhiteSox
09-04-2006, 11:38 AM
ESPN calls our weekend "embarrassing" http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/scoreboard , will not comment one way or another, but I hope they said the same for Boston who got swept by KC and a beat down in 5 straight games vs NY.

There's no need to be so defensive of Ozzie, if Manuel didn't put McCarthy on the playoff roster last year or start him this year, he'd be booed out of a job. Ozzie takes chances and has to be called on them either way

NoNeckEra
09-04-2006, 11:44 AM
How many AL pitching staffs would you rather have than ours? Name em? List the 5 guys pitching the next 5 games for each team you'd rather have over ours. I can name one - maybe two.
Starting pitching staffs I'd rather have:
Oakland
Angels
Yankees
Toronto
Minnesota
Detroit

And that doesn't count the teams that I wouldn't trade that happen to be getting better starting pitching at this juncture.

Frater Perdurabo
09-04-2006, 11:46 AM
Crede is the most likely to be traded because we have a 3B in the minor leagues who is ready for a shot at the big-league level.

Unfortunately you probably are right. The Sox will choose to trade away an excellent defensive third baseman, thereby hurting the defense behind their ground ball pitchers like Buehrle and Garland, simply because they think it's more important to retain their "captain." (Note: this is not a dig on Paulie, but for the future Crede clearly is the more valuable player because of his bigger skill set and Fields easily could be groomed to play first base.)

Palehose13
09-04-2006, 11:48 AM
Unfortunately you probably are right. The Sox will choose to trade away an excellent defensive third baseman, thereby hurting the defense behind their ground ball pitchers like Buehrle and Garland, simply because they think it's more important to retain their "captain." (Note: this is not a dig on Paulie, but for the future Crede clearly is the more valuable player because of his bigger skill set and Fields easily could be groomed to play first base.)

Didn't PK's new contract have a no trade clause?

jabrch
09-04-2006, 12:06 PM
Starting pitching staffs I'd rather have:
Oakland
Angels
Yankees
Toronto
Minnesota
Detroit

And that doesn't count the teams that I wouldn't trade that happen to be getting better starting pitching at this juncture.

That's ridiculous
Zito, Blanton, Haren, Loaiza, Halsley
Lackey, Weaver, Escobar, Santana, Saunders
Johnson, Wang, Lidle, Wright, Rasner (Mussina?)
Halladay, Burnett, Chacin, Lilly, Marcum
Santana, Silva, Garza, Baker, Bonsner
Rogers,Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Miner

The only one you would truly take, today, over our staff is Detroit.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 12:09 PM
Unfortunately you probably are right. The Sox will choose to trade away an excellent defensive third baseman, thereby hurting the defense behind their ground ball pitchers like Buehrle and Garland, simply because they think it's more important to retain their "captain." (Note: this is not a dig on Paulie, but for the future Crede clearly is the more valuable player because of his bigger skill set and Fields easily could be groomed to play first base.)

I agree I wouldn't want to see Joe go, but it would largely depend on what we'd get for him. If we were going to let him walk in FA, then I'd be pissed. But if Anaheim was willing to trade Wood in a deal to get Joe, or someone else was willing to do something similar, that's another story.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 12:21 PM
That's ridiculous
Zito, Blanton, Haren, Loaiza, Halsley
Lackey, Weaver, Escobar, Santana, Saunders
Johnson, Wang, Lidle, Wright, Rasner (Mussina?)
Halladay, Burnett, Chacin, Lilly, Marcum
Santana, Silva, Garza, Baker, Bonsner
Rogers,Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Miner

The only one you would truly take, today, over our staff is Detroit.

Not sure how I forgot Escobar, he pitched last night.

Definitely the Angels and Tigers. Ledezma is a better pitcher than Miner, not even close. We know firsthand.

Not the Blue Jays.

The Yankees, Twins and A's could go either way.

The reason DET is losing has little to do with their pitching. It's their offense and fielding.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 12:25 PM
Not sure how I forgot Escobar, he pitched last night.

Definitely the Angels and Tigers. Ledezma is a better pitcher than Miner, not even close. We know firsthand.

Not the Blue Jays.

The Yankees, Twins and A's could go either way.

The reason DET is losing has little to do with their pitching. It's their offense and fielding.

I'd go with Detroit - the rest I wouldn't. Look at E. Santana lately - he hasn't been as good as one might think.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 12:27 PM
I'd go with Detroit - the rest I wouldn't. Look at E. Santana lately - he hasn't been as good as one might think.

However, he has the stuff to go out and pitch a shutout any given game.

Garcia doesn't, not this year.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2006, 12:31 PM
A:

Immediately the 'we stink' comment from last September when the Royals beat them comes to mind.

Lip

jabrch
09-04-2006, 12:33 PM
However, he has the stuff to go out and pitch a shutout any given game.

Garcia doesn't, not this year.

That's totally true - but frankly, I don't care about shutouts. Go 7 innings, give up 4 runs or less, and this team has a good chance to win a game. CGs, SO, etc. are nice - but you can win lots of games with 4th and 5th starters who don't have 9 inning arms.

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 12:35 PM
The problem is, Garcia gave up 5 and 4 the last two times against the Royals.

If it was 3 and 4 allowed or 2 and 3 (instead), we would win those games 90% of the time.

If we can't expect him to get quality starts against KC, who can we expect him to do it against?

And the Twins have five starters that can consistently throw 93-96 MPH in Garza, Santana, Liriano, Baker and Bonser.
We have one, sort of, in Contreras.

That means the difference in location, movement and getting ahead of the count is even more critical to the Sox.

jabrch
09-04-2006, 12:49 PM
The problem is, Garcia gave up 5 and 4 the last two times against the Royals.

If it was 3 and 4 allowed or 2 and 3 (instead), we would win those games 90% of the time.

If we can't expect him to get quality starts against KC, who can we expect him to do it against?

First, I'm not saying he's been good lately. I'm just saying he's not a terrible back of the rotation starter, and that he's being overly criticized.

Second, take a look at KCs offense. It isn't as bad as you are making it sound. Teahen, Shealy, Brown, DeJesus, etc. Not big names, but strong bats.

Freddy is 3-2 in his last 5 decisions. We are 4-2 in his last 6 starts. He's kept the team competitive most of the time. We were down 1 (4-3) when he walked off the field yesterday right? Same thing I recall in his last loss, down 4-3 to Minny when he walked off the field.

I'm confused, given all the real problems that you could pick on about this team, why you'd focus so much on Garcia.

Patrick134
09-04-2006, 12:59 PM
First, I'm not saying he's been good lately. I'm just saying he's not a terrible back of the rotation starter, and that he's being overly criticized.

Second, take a look at KCs offense. It isn't as bad as you are making it sound. Teahen, Shealy, Brown, DeJesus, etc. Not big names, but strong bats.

Freddy is 3-2 in his last 5 decisions. We are 4-2 in his last 6 starts. He's kept the team competitive most of the time. We were down 1 (4-3) when he walked off the field yesterday right? Same thing I recall in his last loss, down 4-3 to Minny when he walked off the field.

I'm confused, given all the real problems that you could pick on about this team, why you'd focus so much on Garcia.


Great points. The real question mark is Contreras. Is this just a slump ? Or was last year just a hot streak ? At 35 years old starting next season, those are important questions. If garcia is your worst starter next season, you have a very good rotation.

Paulwny
09-04-2006, 01:04 PM
Great points. The real question mark is Contreras. Is this just a slump ? Or was last year just a hot streak ? At 35 years old starting next season, those are important questions. If garcia is your worst starter next season, you have a very good rotation.

35 probably going on 40.

Frater Perdurabo
09-04-2006, 02:45 PM
I agree I wouldn't want to see Joe go, but it would largely depend on what we'd get for him. If we were going to let him walk in FA, then I'd be pissed. But if Anaheim was willing to trade Wood in a deal to get Joe, or someone else was willing to do something similar, that's another story.

The Sox could get more for Crede than for Konerko, but they never would get complete value for Crede since there's really nothing that could replace/overcome the loss of Crede's defense given its importance to our ground ball pitchers.

Of the remaining players who have value (Cotts and Pods don't have much trade value, for example), Konerko is the most "expendable" since first base is the easiest position to fill and because the Sox still would have two RHBs who with 30+ HR power (Crede & Dye). And I want to repeat this for anyone who may think i'm ripping on Paulie: it's not a knock on Paulie to acknowledge that he has strong trade value!

caulfield12
09-04-2006, 02:59 PM
The Sox could get more for Crede than for Konerko, but they never would get complete value for Crede since there's really nothing that could replace/overcome the loss of Crede's defense given its importance to our ground ball pitchers.

Of the remaining players who have value (Cotts and Pods don't have much trade value, for example), Konerko is the most "expendable" since first base is the easiest position to fill and because the Sox still would have two RHBs who with 30+ HR power (Crede & Dye). And I want to repeat this for anyone who may think i'm ripping on Paulie: it's not a knock on Paulie to acknowledge that he has strong trade value!

We might as well send Cotts to winter ball and turn him into a starter again.

Logan looks like he might be able to handle that role now. Nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

Gavin
09-04-2006, 03:02 PM
Well that sucked.

Is the title okay with you, Gavin?

Yep! :supernana:

Frater Perdurabo
09-04-2006, 03:15 PM
We might as well send Cotts to winter ball and turn him into a starter again.

Logan looks like he might be able to handle that role now. Nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

I don't think Cotts is good enough to face one batter, much less face batters for six innings.

The Dude
09-04-2006, 04:49 PM
I don't think Cotts is good enough to face one batter, much less face batters for six innings.
I hardly trust putting Cotts in to intentionally walk a batter!!