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View Full Version : Joe Morgan, are you crazy?


shane
07-30-2001, 01:19 PM
This guy's referencing the white flag deal and then has the nerve to say the Sox don't have that many fans? When I'm traveling, here's the order in which I see MLB merchandise: 1. Yankees 2. Cardinals 3. White Sox. The stands may not be full, but don't assume there aren't any fans out there. How often do you see Reds merchandise Mr. Morgan?



Morgan's Take on the Trade (http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/morgan_joe/1231922.html)

danman31
07-30-2001, 01:26 PM
When I'm traveling, here's the order in which I see MLB merchandise: 1. Yankees 2. Cardinals 3. White Sox.

Not to burst your bubble, but I think White Sox merchandise is popular because of the logo. I think that's why the Sox sell merchandise. A Yankees cap is popular because its obvious that they are the icon of MLB. The Cardinals have a lot of fans, bottom line. In rap videos you usually see the rap artists wearing a hat. The hat has to have some kind of logo on it to make it look cool, the Sox logo looks cool.

We still do have a good amount of fans though.

cheeses_h_rice
07-30-2001, 01:41 PM
It's funny to watch some of the "old" rap videos from around '90 - '92 and see all those black Sox hats. Man, this team's merchandizing was the shiznit back then.

Sigh...

Am I correct in thinking that, for some reason, the Colorado Rockies are big with inner city kids now? It seems to me that I've seen a disproportionate amount of "CR" caps, even though, you know, they're mediocre.

Jjav829
07-30-2001, 02:03 PM
In rap videos you usually see the rap artists wearing a hat. The hat has to have some kind of logo on it to make it look cool, the Sox logo looks cool.

Also Fred Durst made the backwards Red cap, with the MLB logo popular, so now a lot of people buy Cards caps for that reason.

CerberusWG
07-30-2001, 02:11 PM
Now, a guy from blink 182 wears a Sox hat, and I saw a rap video w/ the 1917 sox jersey in it. hell the Sox were in the lyrics also.

Spiff
07-30-2001, 03:04 PM
Dre always wore a Sox hat in his videos back in the 90's (still sounds weird to say that).

shane
07-30-2001, 03:21 PM
I would have agreed with you 7-10 years ago, but even then, the choice of gangstas was the Raiders. I'm not just talking about hats. I see quite a few Sox license plates, probably more than any other team. It's pretty easy to distinguish the gangsters and wanna-bes from the baseball fans anyway. As for St. Louis, Durst probably hasn't had the impact that Nelly and McGwire have had. Today I see more of the rappers wearing basketball and hockey jerseys than baseball apparel, which is good in my opinion. Agree or disagree, you'll probably find more Sox fans outside of Chicago than you'll find Reds fans outside of Cincinatti, and that was really my point to Morgan. I don't think he bothered to think there may be fans that aren't able to get to the home games. And, leaving the statement he made in Chicago, how many cubs "fans" do you think would be outraged if Andy got rid of Gordon or Fassero? Probably about the same amount of people (in Chicago) that would be outraged if Maggs were to be dealt away. Full seats don't necessarily represent fans of the game and the team on the field. At least on the southside all of the fans know who Maggs is and understand the importance of his role with the team. I would have said Sosa or Wood, but given all of the coverage those two have had, it really wouldn't be equal.

Jjav829
07-30-2001, 03:25 PM
Yes Nelly has also had a big part in it, as in almost everyone of his music videos he is wearing a Rams, Blues, or Cardinals jersey.
Durst has only had the impact with the caps as now if you watch MTV you'll see a lot of times people wearing a backwards red cap with the MLB logo, which was first popularized by Durst when he did Nookie.(the music video :) )

Craptastic
07-30-2001, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829


Also Fred Durst made the backwards Red cap, with the MLB logo popular, so now a lot of people buy Cards caps for that reason.

Fred Durst's red cap has a Yankees logo on it.

Jjav829
07-30-2001, 04:46 PM
Fred Durst's red cap has a Yankees logo on it.

Yes I know but how common are red Yankee caps. It is much easier to go buy a Cards cap. No one cares what it says on the front just that it's red and has the official MLB logo on it.

KVinc
07-30-2001, 05:39 PM
The guy in Blink182 who wore the sox hat i believe is tom delonge and the i know definately that rap video with the 1917 jersey is made by a group called Phillys most wanted.

But to get back to Joe Morgan i think he may be right a little are logo is popular but look we cant even average 30,000 or at least 29,000. I mean even in the twinkie dome they average more and phildelphia that stadium sucks. I basically dont live here and still spend my own money or folks :), and catch 8 to 15 games a year here in chicago. I dont understand why all last year the rest of my fellow sox fans were saying everyone was focusing on the attendance and that they shouldnt be, well guess what they should have! As fans we cant even draw 24 to 30,000 unless its something with Cal ripken or the dumb flubs this is the third largest grossing market in america and we cant even get 26,000 annually in an okay ballpark. Sometimes i feel ashamed to call myself a sox fan because at the dorms or any sports bar they are aways gonna say something on how i am the only fan. I mean i know this team isnt really great this year but still damnit, lets go and root the team. I mean dont you know the more we go to the ballpark the higher the payroll can increase and the more the team makes. I know we won last year with a small market salary but look at the pattern most small market teams do okay in the playoffs and then the ones that become dynastys go out and spend 7 to 12 million on three to four guys that can put them over the top. I know next year the sox will be good but they will never be a great team that can win it all unless they can get a ten to 12 million guy. the mariners dont have the a ten to 12 million guy but guess what? They have a higher payroll than us, have three guys who are essentially making 7 million,and they haVE been in the top five for attendence the last 4 years. And seattle is still by many thought to not be the main world series contender it is the New york yankees who have 5 ten million+
guys. The real message is come on lets stop whining about Jerry Manuel, Reinsdorf and Williams and just support the team. This organization has always showed its committed to winning at any time even when they made the white flag trade it was so we could have a winning future and even now for J.b. its so that our guys can step up and ensure ten good years of winning, so damnit come on lets go to comiskey and root root whitesox.

KVinc
07-30-2001, 11:24 PM
:boston
" I love Shea Hillandbrands crotch....... errrrrh i mean the way he crutches at the plate!"

doublem23
07-30-2001, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Yes I know but how common are red Yankee caps. It is much easier to go buy a Cards cap. No one cares what it says on the front just that it's red and has the official MLB logo on it.

Umm, it's really easy to get a Red Yankees hat. At the small little store in my mall, you can get a Red Yankees hat, a Red Dodgers hat, and a red White Sox hat.

doublem23
07-30-2001, 11:44 PM
KVinc

I think the bottom line is about 1/2 - 3/5 of Chicago baseball fans are fair weather. The Cubs and Sox have about as many "true" fans (who care about the game and such), but the fact is that Chicago has terrible fans. We are VERY fair-weather (look at the Bulls & Blackhawks, for example), and those that aren't "true" baseball fans care about other things, such as the stadium, the atmosphere, the neighborhood, being seen, etc., etc., etc.

When I was in St. Louis, I was blown away by how baseball intelligent that city was. Baseball fans in St. Louis put baseball fans in Chicago to shame.

KVinc
07-30-2001, 11:47 PM
i have heard that concept for awhile and i now think i accept it, because i know there are no such thing as cub fans so you probably are right.

Thanks man

doublem23
07-30-2001, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by KVinc
i have heard that concept for awhile and i now think i accept it, because i know there are no such thing as cub fans so you probably are right.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. There are a few, true blue, die-hard Cub fans for whom I don't hold any grudge. The "fans" that annoy me are those yuppy morons who go to Wrigley because "its the place to be seen" and "it's so pretty." They really make us look bad when one travels to a city that cares about its baseball team.

Also, I know this is a tired excuse, but when the Sox gave up on the 1997 season, I really think it scarred some fans. I doubt they will return as long as Reinsdorf is in charge.

Lastly, let's face it. Sox fans are, on average, poorer the Cub "fans." Combine that with the fact there is little residential housing around Comiskey, and the fact that some people suspect the neighborhood, its no wonder people really have to plan it out to go to a Sox game. Even though it is more conviently located than Wrigley (Dan Ryan Expressway), fans really have to plan on coming to Comiskey, wereas there is a LARGE residential neighborhood of yuppies who have nothing better to do than go to Wrigley, get drunk, and mingle with the rest of the yuppies who walked 5 blocks from their apartment to get drunk and mingle.

Nellie_Fox
07-31-2001, 01:06 AM
Take a look at the Cards teams of the 60s and 70s. How many World Series? How many Hall of Famers? The kids who were watching those teams are now the people with the money to get season tickets.

Now, compare that to White Sox baseball in the same era. Couple of pretty good clubs (67 Sox, 71 Dick Allen/Carlos May/Dick Melton etc. The 77 club was exciting as hell, but you knew it was "rent-a-player" and Veeck couldn't afford to keep all the guys he acquired in their option year.) But nowhere near in the class with the Cards.

Then the Sox moved to UHF channels with about enough power to make a refrigerator light bulb glow (you could almost see them through the snow on 32, so they were moved to 44 which I don't think was clearly visible to anyone past Brookfield), and followed that with the brilliant "Sportsvision" pay TV debacle. Basically, a whole generation of Chicago baseball fans grew up without being able to watch the Sox. The Cubs had every game on GN.

So, the result is that the Sox are, for all intents and purposes, a small-market team, drawing on what's left over after the Cubs dominate the market.

It's so sad when you realize that in the fifties, the Sox owned the city and it was Wrigley that was a ghost town. So many inept and/or underfinanced owners making bad decisions ran it into the ground. I think it would take a solid decade of post-season appearances while the Cubs floundered to save the situation.

FarWestChicago
07-31-2001, 01:12 AM
Then the Sox moved to UHF channels with about enough power to make a refrigerator light bulb glow (you could almost see them through the snow on 32, so they were moved to 44 which I don't think was clearly visible to anyone past Brookfield), and followed that with the brilliant "Sportsvision" pay TV debacle. Basically, a whole generation of Chicago baseball fans grew up without being able to watch the Sox. The Cubs had every game on GN.

You hit that nail on the head with your whole post, Nellie. It was hard to be a Sox fan when I was a kid. I think it was just my South Side loyalty that made me so stubborn.

ode to veeck
07-31-2001, 01:57 AM
watching the sox on channel 32 in the early 70s was like watching matt suhey pop through the line and dissappear into the fog against the eagles in the fog bowl, you could only guess what was happening; there was only one kid in our 1/2 of town who could get a decent picture and they had a 35 foot monster antenna attached to their roof!

doublem23
07-31-2001, 12:21 PM
I think it also has a lot to do with the fact that this is a 2-team town. Basically, if you're growing up in St. Louis, your a Cardinal fan. No questions asked. Here, there are some who take sides (such as ourselves), but with 2 teams, a whole *****load of fans don't have to committ. They can committ to winning, not loyalty.

That is even more emphasized by the fact that the Sox and Cubs both play within city limits. You go to San Francisco or Los Angeles, and yeah, maybe they have 2 teams, but, in LA for example, the Dodgers play in the city and the Angels play in the burbs. Here, any yuppy yokel that lives in the city can either go North to watch the Cubs or head on South to watch the Sox. Anyone living in city limits is, at most, 2 trains away from either team.

oldcomiskey
07-31-2001, 05:48 PM
craptastic---that was funny although I think you got the wrong latino in mind

Craptastic
07-31-2001, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
craptastic---that was funny although I think you got the wrong latino in mind

Jose Canseco IS Pedro Cerrano.

Kilroy
07-31-2001, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
...the fact is that Chicago has terrible fans. ...
When I was in St. Louis, I was blown away by how baseball intelligent that city was. Baseball fans in St. Louis put baseball fans in Chicago to shame.

What the hell are you talking about? Bulls fans terrible? You mean the people that have sold out the United Center for the last 3 years, even though the Bulls have only won a total of about 42 games in that time period? How are they terrible?

And Hawks fans? Lemme see, they continued to have very strong attendance even though the Hawks traded away or lost thru free agency the most beloved players the team had, continually sucked for the last 10 years, has the worst owner in all of professional sports who still refuses to show home games on TV? Only recently has attendance at Hawk games fallen drastically, and you know why? Wirtz, the ancient shriveled up old prick that he is, tripled ticket prices in the first 15 rows from the glass. What used to be a really over-priced 75 dollar ticket is now an unbelieveable 225 dollar ticket. I'd cut off my own sack before I paid for one of those seats.

Bears have the same thing. 60k a game. Bears games are blacked out if the game isnt a sellout. Its been years since that happened. They may not show at the game, but the seats are paid for. And who could blame people for not making the effort to see Cade McClown run the Bears anemic offnese. You want me to fight 60000 people to see them suck ass? No thank you.

Bottom line is that I don't know what you think you saw in St. Louis that makes them better fans than you find here, but I think you're sadly mistaken.

KVinc
07-31-2001, 08:08 PM
he said baseball fans dude.

And hes right in the 90's i dont think i have seen Busch Stadium ever avergae 26,000.






Rakim greatest rapper of all time.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2001, 08:10 PM
What the hell are you talking about? Bulls fans terrible? You mean the people that have sold out the United Center for the last 3 years, even though the Bulls have only won a total of about 42 games in that time period?

:reinsy
I don't know if I could handle 2 teams that don't draw.

Kilroy
07-31-2001, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by KVinc
he said baseball fans dude.


I believe the quote was - Chicago has terrible fans. Not Chicago baseball...