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View Full Version : *official* ***Don't call it a comeback---8-31-06 vs Royals postgame thread***


Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:20 PM
A couple of great AJ at bats wasted by Crede there.

I know Joe has been Captain Clutch, but man, we just needed a single there in the 9th. We'll get them tomorrow.

JB98
09-01-2006, 11:22 PM
We had the right man at the plate. The only guy I'd pick ahead of Crede for that situation is Dye. It just didn't happen.

Another blown opportunity. Sad to say, but missed opportunites are becoming part of this team's personality.

CHISOXFAN13
09-01-2006, 11:22 PM
**** Hawk for commenting positively on this effort at the end of the game. A pathetic effort against a pathetic team. This one tops them all. :angry:

Cuck the Fubs
09-01-2006, 11:23 PM
lost ground on the Tigers stayed ahead of the Twins.....

Can't put it on Crede.....the Defense SUCKED tonight.

Get em tomorrow guys

soxfanatlanta
09-01-2006, 11:23 PM
Bad pitching by JC

Bad defense.

Ugh.

Wildcard standings unchanged - a silver lining.

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:23 PM
**** Hawk for commenting positively on this effort at the end of the game.

Yeah, damn those whitesox. Do you know how many "corpseball' posts bit the dust after the 8th and 9th innings ?

cheezheadsoxfan
09-01-2006, 11:25 PM
A couple of great AJ at bats wasted by Crede there.

I know Joe has been Captain Clutch, but man, we just needed a single there in the 9th. We'll get them tomorrow.

Can't blame Joe, the defense and Jose dropped this one.:(:

Brian26
09-01-2006, 11:25 PM
A couple of great AJ at bats wasted by Crede there.

I know Joe has been Captain Clutch, but man, we just needed a single there in the 9th. We'll get them tomorrow.

As great as the late inning homers are, these guys now go up there expecting and trying to hit them. A base hit there ties the game. I was disappointed with that Crede at-bat.

jabrch
09-01-2006, 11:26 PM
Can't blame Joe, the defense and Jose dropped this one.:(:

Well....

First off, Joe was part of that bad defense... Second, he had bases loaded in the last two innings and didn't deliver. He's certainly a contributor.

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:26 PM
As great as the late inning homers are, these guys now go up there expecting and trying to hit them. A base hit there ties the game. I was disappointed with that Crede at-bat.


Especially painful is that Joe did it again in the 8th, failing to even get the sac fly that time.

Brian26
09-01-2006, 11:26 PM
**** Hawk for commenting positively on this effort at the end of the game. A pathetic effort against a pathetic team. This one tops them all. :angry:

Yeah, I'm a big Hawk fan, but that comment insulted me. There are no moral victories against the KC Royals on Sept 1 in the heat of a pennant race.

Beautox
09-01-2006, 11:27 PM
The Good: Ross Glaod, Charlie Haeger, BOOOOOOOOOONE!, JD 3-4

The Bad(managing): Mackowiak in CF when BA has been batting .303 for the last 30 games, Scott Podsednik Still starting, This Homerun or bust mentality, Cintron starting.

The Ugly: Defense, it so fundamental...

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:28 PM
Yeah, I'm a big Hawk fan, but that comment insulted me. There are no moral victories against the KC Royals on Sept 1 in the heat of a pennant race.

Tell that to Paniagua. The loss "sucks", as hawk might say, but if the offense had stayed dead all night, it would be worse.

MadetoOrta
09-01-2006, 11:28 PM
Yeah, I'm a big Hawk fan, but that comment insulted me. There are no moral victories against the KC Royals on Sept 1 in the heat of a pennant race.

Completely concur. Let's hope we're not talking about how if we'd just one one or more of those "moral victories" we wouldn't have had to be Johan Santana at the Twinkiedome to make the playoffs. I love the Sox but they just don't have IT.

JB98
09-01-2006, 11:29 PM
Yeah, I'm a big Hawk fan, but that comment insulted me. There are no moral victories against the KC Royals on Sept 1 in the heat of a pennant race.

And we've had a lot of near comebacks like this. It isn't like the previous near comebacks have driven the team on to great heights. Show me a win, not a moral victory.

CHISOXFAN13
09-01-2006, 11:30 PM
Yeah, I'm a big Hawk fan, but that comment insulted me. There are no moral victories against the KC Royals on Sept 1 in the heat of a pennant race.

Exactly. If it was against a quality opponent in June, I might be able to stomach it. But that just infuriated me as much as Cintron, Crede and Mackowiak's defense tonight.

Dammit.

Brian26
09-01-2006, 11:31 PM
Tell that to Paniagua. The loss "sucks", as hawk might say, but if the offense had stayed dead all night, it would be worse.

Well, remember the Paniagua game was against the Twins, who were neck-and-neck with the Sox (Actually trailing them at the time). That's different than playing the last place team in the division.

infohawk
09-01-2006, 11:31 PM
Alright, I'm now officially concerned that Jose has some kind of an injury that may not be significant but is bad enough to effect his pitching. I know that the defense didn't help him tonight, but he has not looked good lately.

TheDarkGundam
09-01-2006, 11:32 PM
What is so hard about NOT putting Mackowiak in center?
Whatever he's blackmailing Ozzie with can't be that bad, can it?

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:32 PM
Exactly. If it was against a quality opponent in June, I might be able to stomach it. But that just infuriated me as much as Cintron, Crede and Mackowiak's defense tonight.

Dammit.

The Royals did us a big favor by just winning a series at the twinkiedome, where the twins have an awesome record. I think it's safe to say that right now, the Royals ARE a quality opponent.

JB98
09-01-2006, 11:32 PM
Well, remember the Paniagua game was against the Twins, who were neck-and-neck with the Sox (Actually trailing them at the time). That's different than playing the last place team in the division.

For four consecutive days, we've looked bad playing against last-place teams. I actually thought our level of play was higher in the two losses to the Twins at the Cell than it was in the two wins against the Devil Rays.

And as for the last two games, well, cue the upchuck reflex.

caulfield12
09-01-2006, 11:33 PM
This week against TB (not as dramatic), against the Yankees, two times in NY (almost against NY), Papelbon, Nathan...yeah, we lost that one to the Astros on the Sunday night game and one to the Indians that we had similar deficits, but this club rarely goes down 1-2-3 in the 9th.

The Gload GS against Ray was my personal favorite, although there have been plenty of others.

That's why yesterday was particularly disappointing, and it's not as if we were facing a strong, lights-out bullpen.

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:33 PM
What is so hard about NOT putting Mackowiak in center?
Whatever he's blackmailing Ozzie with can't be that bad, can it?

BA made the same "mistake" decision that Mack did about 10 games ago.

DickAllen72
09-01-2006, 11:34 PM
A couple of great AJ at bats wasted by Crede there.

I know Joe has been Captain Clutch, but man, we just needed a single there in the 9th. We'll get them tomorrow.

No big deal. The Sox are still in position to win two out of three. All we need to do is win series'. The Twins and Detroit will falter. Blah, blah blah...

This should illustrate to all those who didn't get it why yesterday's loss was so big.

And please, Ozzie, play Gload at DH/1B until Thome is 100% and when Thome can return play Gload in LF instead of Pods.

Tragg
09-01-2006, 11:34 PM
In the key defensive positions of SS and CF, we put a mediocre and a poor defender in the starting lineup. Our D kills us tonight. WE've intentionally fielded poor defensive teams several times a week, all year long.

So we're down and we need runs, so let's take the.376 OBP man out of the lineup and put him on the bench. Well Anderson has been hot, hitting .300 over the last month...uhhh, time to pinch hit for him. That's okay, and it worked, except that we used the pinch hitter on the hot-hitting Anderson instead of the poor hitter Cintron who needs a pinch hitter. Cintron, as usual, hits a pop up.


Is there any reason that Rob M can't spell Pods or an infielder instead of Anderson? Rob M has hit super this year and I want him in the lineup too. But why must it be in CF?

Uribe is a better defender and a better hitter than Cintron. Ozzie, obviously isn't on Uribe's bandwagon. But Cintron is a utility ballplayer.

caulfield12
09-01-2006, 11:34 PM
All of our outfielders are guilty of those ill-advised throws to third and home that are 10 minutes late or miss the cutoff man.

When's the last time we threw someone out in one of these situations where the original batter reached second trailing the play?

cheezheadsoxfan
09-01-2006, 11:36 PM
Alright, I'm now officially concerned that Jose has some kind of an injury that may not be significant but is bad enough to effect his pitching. I know that the defense didn't help him tonight, but he has not looked good lately.

I hate to say this but I am now more comfortable with Javy in than with Jose. Whatever is wrong they need to fix it or if it's injury get him out of the rotation.

Bright Spot: Twins lost, Haeger looked good.

CHISOXFAN13
09-01-2006, 11:36 PM
The Royals did us a big favor by just winning a series at the twinkiedome, where the twins have an awesome record. I think it's safe to say that right now, the Royals ARE a quality opponent.

If that makes you feel better then I'm happy for you. But when all is said and done and the Royals lose 100 games, the White Sox will have the worst winning percentage of any team in the Major Leagues against them.

caulfield12
09-01-2006, 11:37 PM
In the key defensive positions of SS and CF, we put a mediocre and a poor defender in the starting lineup. Our D kills us tonight. WE've intentionally fielded poor defensive teams several times a week, all year long.

So we're down and we need runs, so let's take the.376 OBP man out of the lineup and put him on the bench. Well Anderson has been hot, hitting .300 over the last month...uhhh, time to pinch hit for him. That's okay, and it worked, but then the lousy hitter Cintron comes up and, of course, no pinch hitter is forthcoming when he's the one who needs a pinch hitter.

Is there any reason that Rob M can't spell Pods or an infielder instead of Anderson? Rob M has hit super this year and I want him in the lineup too. But why must it be in CF?

It's almost as if that because Ozuna primarily backs up Pods, Rob can't take any AB's away from him. It's illogical.

I would have preferred Sweeney up there over Cintron. Cintron just swings out of his --- instead of making easy contact like he was doing earlier. Those HR's he hit got him into the "five run homer and a cloud of dust" mentality as well.

AT LEAST AJ and Gload shortened their swings when they got down in the count and went to the opposite field.

DickAllen72
09-01-2006, 11:38 PM
The Good: Ross Glaod, Charlie Haeger, BOOOOOOOOOONE!, JD 3-4


Yes, Logan and Haeger looked great tonight. I liked Haeger even after his one start a few months back. They both have major league futures. Gload is a professional hitter and should be in the lineup over a gimpy Thome and then over Podsednik.

StillMissOzzie
09-01-2006, 11:38 PM
Definitely not one of Joe's better games. He has been pretty tight on defense and pretty clutch on offense, but tonight he was neither. Maybe he's the one who just needs a day off.

Not really one of those "moral" victories to make it a close game, but at least there was no quit in them.

Please, please, PLEASE put BA back in CF and LEAVE HIM THERE!

SMO
:angry:

DickAllen72
09-01-2006, 11:39 PM
I hate to say this but I am now more comfortable with Javy in than with Jose. Whatever is wrong they need to fix it or if it's injury get him out of the rotation.


Jose only gave up two earned runs. The defense let him down in the fourth inning and made him throw a lot of extra pitches.

JB98
09-01-2006, 11:40 PM
Definitely not one of Joe's better games. He has been pretty tight on defense and pretty clutch on offense, but tonight he was neither. Maybe he's the one who just needs a day off.

No way in hell. Joe should start every game the rest of the year. The team just had a day off Monday. Players had their days off earlier in the season. We need to push now.

caulfield12
09-01-2006, 11:42 PM
If that makes you feel better then I'm happy for you. But when all is said and done and the Royals lose 100 games, the White Sox will have the worst winning percentage of any team in the Major Leagues against them.

2003, it was the Tigers, 9-10 or 10-9 against them.

This year, we're 10-7 versus KC (and lucky, the Sweeney DP game easily could have gone the other way) and not looking good.

We're also 34-25 against teams with records below .500.

Minnesota +23
Detroit +31
WHITE SOX +9

That all goes to preparation, not taking your opponents seriously (with the talent we have, no excuses), execution, scouting and lack of "small ball." Earlier in the season, the pen blew 7 games against these "low quality" opponents, but we no longer have that excuse.

If we played our best line-ups, rested starters in blow-outs, were at least willing to look at changes in the rotation (just to make the starter realize he doesn't get the ball every fifth turn, he has to earn it)...no more Mackowiak in CF...I really wouldn't mind playing Sweeney in LF everyday, everyone's going to jump on that statement, but I have a really good feeling that these kids like Haeger, Boone, Sweeney, Fields and Tracey could end up making significant contributions down the stretch run.

Tragg
09-01-2006, 11:43 PM
It's almost as if that because Ozuna primarily backs up Pods, Rob can't take any AB's away from him. It's illogical.
. It sure seems that way...and you're right, it is illogical. We'd be better offensively and defensively if Rob M would take Pods position in the field and in the lineup when Pods needs a rest. Rob M iis nowhere near the defensive downgrade relieving pods as he is relieving anderson.
Just as curious, Guillen hits the sub with the 376 OBP 8th and the sub who refuses to walk and slap hits at everything leads off....illogical.

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:43 PM
If that makes you feel better then I'm happy for you. But when all is said and done and the Royals lose 100 games, the White Sox will have the worst winning percentage of any team in the Major Leagues against them.

The point is, an awful team isn't awful all the time.

cheezheadsoxfan
09-01-2006, 11:43 PM
Jose only gave up two earned runs. The defense let him down in the fourth inning and made him throw a lot of extra pitches.

True, but he still hasn't looked the same (except against Detroit) since he came off the DL. That is the second game in a row that he has had the defense falling apart behind him. Can't help your concentration any.

caulfield12
09-01-2006, 11:44 PM
Definitely not one of Joe's better games. He has been pretty tight on defense and pretty clutch on offense, but tonight he was neither. Maybe he's the one who just needs a day off.

Not really one of those "moral" victories to make it a close game, but at least there was no quit in them.

Please, please, PLEASE put BA back in CF and LEAVE HIM THERE!

SMO
:angry:

Did you miss his 400+ HR to LCF? He was our only offense. And he really had a pretty good swing on that ball in the 9th, the ubiquitious Hawkism "just got under it," but it was true.

kitekrazy
09-01-2006, 11:46 PM
Alright, I'm now officially concerned that Jose has some kind of an injury that may not be significant but is bad enough to effect his pitching. I know that the defense didn't help him tonight, but he has not looked good lately.

He looks the worst of the starters now. I'd like to see Brandon get a start since they called up two guys for the pen.

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:46 PM
Did you miss his 400+ HR to LCF? He was our only offense. And he really had a pretty good swing on that ball in the 9th, the ubiquitious Hawkism "just got under it," but it was true.

A solo shot is our only offense in a game we scored 5 runs in ?

southsideirish71
09-01-2006, 11:50 PM
Ozzie needs to give up the over managing based on what appendage a person was born with.

He didnt start Anderson because Hernadez is a righty, then later in the game he took out Mack and put in Anderson, because Ozzie realized that Gobble is a lefty, then he took out Anderson for Gload. The game was almost put in the hands of Sweeney making his first AB with the 9th inning and the game on the line. Thats not a way you want to start your major league career.

Start your starting lineup as much as humanly possible. You did this whole, i rest my players so they can be fresh for the strech run. Well take a gander at the calendar. Its September. This is the time to play our starters every single day.

And our hitters need to stop with the pull and lift crap. AJ is not a home run hitter. I like the AJ that sprayed the ball all over in the first half, not the guy who pulls the ball just as much as Konerko does. It is not a shock that our rally started with guys hitting the ball the other way, the only outs were guys trying to pull the low and outside pitch.

Our offense obviously has a specific technique for lift and pull, because if you watch every single pitcher that goes up against us. Its low and away all the time. If someone did that to the twins they would be killing them dinking that ball back up the middle or to right field. But our guys cant help it. Lift and pull.

caulfield12
09-01-2006, 11:51 PM
He was our only offense when it really counted...when nobody could do anything against Hernandez.

Sure, we benefitted from the usual Indians/Royals bullpen meltdowns, AJ and Gload had great AB's, but there's no way I pin this loss on Crede.

You could blame it on Thome in the 8th, or Cintron, or Crede...but to suggest he sits, well, you should sit Konerko before Crede IMO.

Let Gload keep swinging a hot bat.

CHISOXFAN13
09-01-2006, 11:53 PM
The point is, an awful team isn't awful all the time.

I understand what you are saying. I just think a team of the White Sox caliber should have a better record than 10-7 against this team. The Sox are better at every position on the field, with the exception of left field.

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:53 PM
He was our only offense when it really counted...when nobody could do anything against Hernandez.

Sure, we benefitted from the usual Indians/Royals bullpen meltdowns, AJ and Gload had great AB's, but there's no way I pin this loss on Crede.

You could blame it on Thome in the 8th, or Cintron, or Crede...but to suggest he sits, well, you should sit Konerko before Crede IMO.

Let Gload keep swinging a hot bat.

When it really counted was in the 8th and 9th, when he popped out twice.

slobes
09-01-2006, 11:53 PM
As great as the late inning homers are, these guys now go up there expecting and trying to hit them. A base hit there ties the game. I was disappointed with that Crede at-bat.

Agreed. He was really swinging for the fences there, even with 2 strikes. Disappointing game overall. Defense was absolutely abysmal.

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:54 PM
I understand what you are saying. I just think a team of the White Sox caliber should have a better record than 10-7 against this team. The Sox are better at every position on the field, with the exception of left field.

It's about matchups sometimes. Grudzalanek absolutely kills us this year. Teahan has hit well against a lot of teams though.

caulfield12
09-01-2006, 11:56 PM
Ozzie needs to give up the over managing based on what appendage a person was born with.

He didnt start Anderson because Hernadez is a righty, then later in the game he took out Mack and put in Anderson, because Ozzie realized that Gobble is a lefty, then he took out Anderson for Gload. The game was almost put in the hands of Sweeney making his first AB with the 9th inning and the game on the line. Thats not a way you want to start your major league career.

Start your starting lineup as much as humanly possible. You did this whole, i rest my players so they can be fresh for the strech run. Well take a gander at the calendar. Its September. This is the time to play our starters every single day.

And our hitters need to stop with the pull and lift crap. AJ is not a home run hitter. I like the AJ that sprayed the ball all over in the first half, not the guy who pulls the ball just as much as Konerko does. It is not a shock that our rally started with guys hitting the ball the other way, the only outs were guys trying to pull the low and outside pitch.

Our offense obviously has a specific technique for lift and pull, because if you watch every single pitcher that goes up against us. Its low and away all the time. If someone did that to the twins they would be killing them dinking that ball back up the middle or to right field. But our guys cant help it. Lift and pull.

Or to Grudzielanek.

And the team watches "small ball" players like Pods, Cintron, Uribe, AJ swinging out of their ----- and it infects the entire team like EBOLA.

That's why we keep getting the Piranha line from OG...because Punto, Bartlett and Tyner would have taken what the pitcher gave them (to the opposite field) instead of the Alex Cintron Horrorible Swing Picture Show.

Or Thome. Or Crede. Or Konerko.

It seems the only hitter we can excuse these days is Dye.

caulfield12
09-01-2006, 11:57 PM
It's about matchups sometimes. Grudzalanek absolutely kills us this year. Tehan has hit well against a lot of teams though.

The Twins completely neutralized him with high and inside fastballs. He was overmatched, not only by Santana but Bonser and Garza as well.

No floating Vazquez/McCarthy/Contreras changes and sliders hanging out over the plate.

EDIT: One cannot forget Freddy's repertoire of hanging junkballs either.

Patrick134
09-01-2006, 11:57 PM
Or to Grudzielanek.

And the team watches "small ball" players like Pods, Cintron, Uribe, AJ swinging out of their ----- and it infects the entire team like EBOLA.

That's why we keep getting the Piranha line from OG...because Punto, Bartlett and Tyner would have taken what the pitcher gave them (to the opposite field) instead of the Alex Cintron Horrorible Swing Picture Show.

Or Thome. Or Crede. Or Konerko.

It seems the only hitter we can excuse these days is Dye.


Um Konerko's hitting about .350 the last month with only 2 homers.

Tragg
09-01-2006, 11:59 PM
I get that lefty/righty thing, but why does he sacrifice his defense (and key up the middle defense) to do that? Does the offensive gain exceed the defensive downgrade?

And why is Cintron playing so much? He's a utility ballplayer -sort of okay in the field and okay (although just barely) with the bat...but certainly no better than mediocre.

Patrick134
09-02-2006, 12:01 AM
I get that lefty/righty thing, but why does he sacrifice his defense (and key up the middle defense) to do that?

And why is Cintron playing so much? He's a utility ballplayer -sort of okay in the field and okay (although just barely) with the bat...but certainly no better than mediocre.

Cintron had a big couple of weeks with the bat recently, let's not forget the huge bases loaded double vs. the Tigers.

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 12:01 AM
Konerko just doesn't look as dangerous up there. He's pulling off way too many pitches and not going to RCF as much, which is his natural swing when he's not pull-hooking.

That weak 16 bounce grounder outside the 3B line has gotten as consistent as Big Hurt's flares and pop-ups to RF and 1B foul territory.

Maybe it's the 20 GIDP's that stick out, and the fact that he's so slow is frustrating when we have all these guys like Dye, Thome, Konerko, Crede and AJ clogging the basepaths.

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 12:02 AM
Cintron had a big couple of weeks with the bat recently, let's not forget the huge bases loaded double vs. the Tigers.

That would have been caught 90% of the time if not for Magglio's knees and the fact that the wind came out of nowhere on that play and pushed the ball to the fence.

southsideirish71
09-02-2006, 12:03 AM
Konerko just doesn't look as dangerous up there. He's pulling off way too many pitches and not going to RCF as much, which is his natural swing when he's not pull-hooking.

That weak 16 bounce grounder outside the 3B line has gotten as consistent as Big Hurt's flares and pop-ups to RF and 1B foul territory.

Maybe it's the 20 GIDP's that stick out, and the fact that he's so slow is frustrating when we have all these guys like Dye, Thome, Konerko, Crede and AJ clogging the basepaths.

I still want to know how Pods who has one skill these days, and that supposedly is speed, cannot beat out a ground ball to the line side of 3rd base, that Tehan has to turn and fire and still gets him by 3 or more steps.

How does a reasonably fast guy not beat out that grounder. Last year in the first half, he is coming back to the bag by the time that ball is in the mitt.

Patrick134
09-02-2006, 12:05 AM
That would have been caught 90% of the time if not for Magglio's knees and the fact that the wind came out of nowhere on that play and pushed the ball to the fence.

Using that logic, we could probably sit here and discount 75% of every teams in the leagues offensive stats.

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 12:07 AM
I still want to know how Pods who has one skill these days, and that supposedly is speed, cannot beat out a ground ball to the line side of 3rd base, that Tehan has to turn and fire and still gets him by 3 or more steps.

How does a reasonably fast guy not beat out that grounder. Last year in the first half, he is coming back to the bag by the time that ball is in the mitt.

The funny thing is that it's one of the rare occurences when Pods hasn't pulled the ball to 1B or 2B on the ground....with an occasional 4 hopper to the right of 2B that still gets him thrown out by L. Castillo 95 times out of 100 this year.

He's like watching T. Hunter in CF for Minnesota. You can just see the frustration when he can't step it up into the extra gear.

He's fine when he's going from 1B to home or 1B to third, but he doesn't have that explosion out of the box or the explosion that is the difference between a CS and SB. He knows it, which is why he has been so tentative to run.

DickAllen72
09-02-2006, 12:07 AM
I still want to know how Pods who has one skill these days, and that supposedly is speed, cannot beat out a ground ball to the line side of 3rd base, that Tehan has to turn and fire and still gets him by 3 or more steps.

How does a reasonably fast guy not beat out that grounder. Last year in the first half, he is coming back to the bag by the time that ball is in the mitt.

Pods' big asset was his speed. He's lost that, and therefore he's become a mediocre journeyman. I don't know if he'll regain a step next year with another offseason to recouperate from his two hernia surgeries, but I doubt it.

Either way, I'd rather see Gload leading off and playing LF than Pods for the rest of this season.

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 12:08 AM
I'd rather see Sweeney leading off and playing everyday.

At least I could be excited about that.

DickAllen72
09-02-2006, 12:09 AM
I'd rather see Sweeney leading off and playing everyday.

At least I could be excited about that.

Part of me would be excited to see that but then again I don't know if I'd want to throw another rookie out there in the middle of a Wild Card race.

Patrick134
09-02-2006, 12:09 AM
[quote=caulfield12]I'd rather see Sweeney leading off and playing everyday.

At least I could be excited about that.[/qu

Two 0 for 4 games and you'd be trading him for roberto alomar.

Tragg
09-02-2006, 12:11 AM
I'd rather see Sweeney leading off and playing everyday.

At least I could be excited about that.
I could get excisted about making the playoffs for 2 successive years for the FIRST TIME IN SOX HISTORY. (hard to believe it's never happened).

WE're going to have to do something about leadoff/left-field for next season.
I wish Uribe would get himself out of Ozzie's doghouse (playing when injured and not telling anyone- is that what dogged him?) - he's a good fielder, has a little power...you can do a lot worse than a focused Uribe at ss. I don't want to have to deal with 2 weak positions.

DickAllen72
09-02-2006, 12:11 AM
Two 0 for 4 games and you'd be trading him for roberto alomar.

LOL!:redneck

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 12:14 AM
Ummm...no.

Anderson has earned his playing time, not only because of his offensive output but the obvious defensive upside.

Sweeney's 10X the defensive player as any of the three (or four, with Gload) we could throw out there now, and he has a wonderful arm for LF, and very good for RF.

I don't know about leading off...but, at this point, I would be willing to go with Iguchi hitting first and Sweeney second.

It will never happen, but something has to be done to shake this team up. Dye batting third is not going to be enough apparently.

esbrechtel
09-02-2006, 12:15 AM
When it really counted was in the 8th and 9th, when he popped out twice.

thats a foolish statement....a run is a run...whether it be in the first or the 9th inning..crede blows one play at third (a very tough play), and he doesnt get a hit with bases loaded twice and you pin the loss on him? although until the 8th inning he was the only offense that we had? that fly ball was probably deep enough to score a run IMO...we just didnt want to risk it and secondly i think this loss cannot be put on one guy...

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 12:16 AM
LOL!:redneck

Well, I don't know about you, but I would rather play Sweeney or Fields in LF than Dave Roberts. That much I do know.

And Alomar was probably my least favorite player in the last 25 years of White Sox history.

Fortunately, we didn't lose too much to acquire him.

DickAllen72
09-02-2006, 12:20 AM
Well, I don't know about you, but I would rather play Sweeney or Fields in LF than Dave Roberts. That much I do know.


As I stated, part of me would be excited to see Sweeney in LF, but I don't want to throw another rookie out there right in the middle of a very tight Wild Card race. Remember how Anderson struggled his first couple of months.

Gload wouldn't be any worse than Pods defensively in LF(I know that's not saying much), is a much better hitter and at this point is probably just as fast as Pods. He also has shown to be a hitter that doesn't choke under pressure.

EDIT: Who said anything about Dave Roberts? :?:

ndu3t4
09-02-2006, 12:21 AM
Just my two cents for the night. Sure we had a chance to gain some ground on the Twin, but Hernandez has been lights out his last few starts and he had good stuff tonight. The offense did a good job except for Crede. I was okay with Paulies swing in the ninth because at least it was shor and quick, Crede's looked like de was going way out of his way.

Let's take these next two. The Twins are realing from the loss tonight and they just lost Radke. Sure, they've probably got some phenom waiting in the minors like they always do, but I think we can break away a little these next two games.

southsideirish71
09-02-2006, 12:32 AM
Just my two cents for the night. Sure we had a chance to gain some ground on the Twin, but Hernandez has been lights out his last few starts and he had good stuff tonight. The offense did a good job except for Crede. I was okay with Paulies swing in the ninth because at least it was shor and quick, Crede's looked like de was going way out of his way.

Let's take these next two. The Twins are realing from the loss tonight and they just lost Radke. Sure, they've probably got some phenom waiting in the minors like they always do, but I think we can break away a little these next two games.

Do yourself a favor and check out Tivo and the location of the pitch. Pitches low and away are not supposed to pulled. Paulie did. He hit it off the end of his bat because he had to extend across the strikezone completely to get contact with it. If he waited back on it a bit more he could of driven it to right center.

We have been plagued for years with guys coming up with men on late in the year, and trying to hit homers intead of making solid contact with a line drive swing. We supposedly got rid of Jose Valentin and Carlos Lee because of trying to go for the homer instead of going for the single to score the RISP.

Hitmen77
09-02-2006, 12:44 AM
This is all on the defense. I'm not blaming our late inning offense. We strung together a bunch of baserunners in the 8th and 9th, but our defense put us in too big of a hole. Without an extra base hit, there's only so many station to station hits/walks were going to be able to string together.

Come on, Sox, only one month left to get your act together!

QCIASOXFAN
09-02-2006, 12:45 AM
8-31-06:?: Its 9-01-06.

Soxfanspcu11
09-02-2006, 12:57 AM
8-31-06:?: Its 9-01-06.

This is now the second time where I have noticed something at the very beginning of a thread and was going to comment about it, only to read through the ENTIRE thread to see if someone had said something about it, and then see that on the very LAST post that someone had caught it!

DAMN YOU QCIASOXFAN!!!!!!!:redneck

StillMissOzzie
09-02-2006, 01:00 AM
Did you miss his 400+ HR to LCF? He was our only offense. And he really had a pretty good swing on that ball in the 9th, the ubiquitious Hawkism "just got under it," but it was true.

Nope, I saw the solo shot. Yeah, he crushed it for ONE RBI, but couldn't come through with a measely base hit in the 8th or the 9th, when it woulda/coulda/shoulda been two each. Not even deep enough for a sac fly in the 8th, even!

SMO
:angry:

QCIASOXFAN
09-02-2006, 01:08 AM
This is now the second time where I have noticed something at the very beginning of a thread and was going to comment about it, only to read through the ENTIRE thread to see if someone had said something about it, and then see that on the very LAST post that someone had caught it!

DAMN YOU QCIASOXFAN!!!!!!!:redneckI didn't even read through the entire thread, I just crossed my fingers and hoped it wasn't posted.:tongue:

DaleJRFan
09-02-2006, 01:08 AM
Who said anything about Dave Roberts? :?:

Lots of people and KW, evidentially:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=78067

BainesHOF
09-02-2006, 01:17 AM
Ozzie is having one bad year.

Myrtle72
09-02-2006, 01:20 AM
Ozzie is having one bad year.

You make it sound like it just happened. Ozzie's bad year is a direct result of his bad decision making.

QCIASOXFAN
09-02-2006, 01:27 AM
Ozzie is having one bad year.Ya Ozzie made 3 errors in the 4th inning.

Lip Man 1
09-02-2006, 01:28 AM
The team I broadcast for won 63-0 tonight, I get home, immediately put on the computer and read this half assed suck effort tonight.

25 losses to garbage teams that other clubs are beating with regularity.

Pissing away chances to put distance between themselves and the Twins and to avoid having to play criticle games against those guys at their place at the end of the season.

I shouldn't even have turned the damn computer on.

Great effort tonight guys! Just great.

Lip

DaleJRFan
09-02-2006, 01:30 AM
The team I broadcast for won 63-0 tonight, I get home, immediately put on the computer and read this half assed suck effort tonight.

:o: Football, I hope...

CHISOXFAN13
09-02-2006, 01:39 AM
The team I broadcast for won 63-0 tonight, I get home, immediately put on the computer and read this half assed suck effort tonight.

25 losses to garbage teams that other clubs are beating with regularity.

Pissing away chances to put distance between themselves and the Twins and to avoid having to play criticle games against those guys at their place at the end of the season.

I shouldn't even have turned the damn computer on.

Great effort tonight guys! Just great.

Lip

My thoughts exactly. Luckily, the game I was at came down to a last minute field goal so I had that to take my mind off the score.

PaulDrake
09-02-2006, 02:11 AM
Ya Ozzie made 3 errors in the 4th inning. No Ozzie didn't make any errors, since he doesn't play anymore. That doesn't change the fact that his game day strategies this year have generally been horse ****.

QCIASOXFAN
09-02-2006, 02:18 AM
No Ozzie didn't make any errors, since he doesn't play anymore. That doesn't change the fact that his game day strategies this year have generally been horse ****. So make a thread about, don't come in the postgame thread and talk about it unless he did something to seriously screw up the game. The only thing you can possibly fault him for is putting you know who in CF again. I don't think that had a huge impact overall on how the game turned out.

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 02:18 AM
Besides walking Grudz to get to Sweeney, I'm trying to imagine what things Ozzie could have done (that he's not already doing) to make things worse...

I'm not going to run down the laundry list as that's getting boring/redundant, but I'm trying to think of some things that he's done that have worked the last two months.

The bunting practice worked for a couple of games, then disappeared as if it had never happened. It was like a teacher sending all the students to detention, then letting them get away with the same behavior with no consequences or lessons learned.

The only time I've been impressed since the fateful Papelbon/Timlin comeback was the home series against NY and Detroit, where it seemed that he was managing each game at a higher level (and less micromanaging than Torre) and he REALLY wanted to win.

I haven't seen that sense of day-to-day urgency in his attitude about the starting rotation, fundamentals, letting baserunners run wild (certainly, there are better strategies than "delivering messages through the newspaper," as obviously that's not worked out so well, sounds like he's having difficulty getting through to a family member there who resides in his own clubhouse)...defensive lapses, throwing to wrong bases.

He did "bench" Uribe, but that was never fully explained. We could have used Juan tonight, offensively and defensively.

It seems like this entire year, he's been consumed by "honor" and beanballs, along with Mariotti, and practically every managing and coaching staff in the majors (LaRussa, Dave Duncan, Mariano Duncan, Torre, Leyland, Showalter, Scioscia)...it's hard to think of a team he doesn't have any issues with, besides the Twins, lol.

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 02:19 AM
NM...duplicate post, delete

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 02:20 AM
NM...duplicate post, please erase

CaptainBallz
09-02-2006, 02:29 AM
Wow, that was crap.

Jose, come back to us!!

I've been rather quiet about Pods thus far, but watching him NOT run out his grounder down the line LEADING OFF THE TOP OF THE ****ING NINTH leads me to either assume a) he's hurt or b) he needs to sit. Either way, get his sorry ass out of the lineup...now.

And for the love of all things good and decent, WHY THE **** IS MACK IN CF STILL??!!!!

Good things happen when you give yourself a freakin chance, which the Sox played themselves out of tonight, like only these Sox could...

Welp, try not to suck ass tomorrow I guess. :help:

roadrunner
09-02-2006, 02:31 AM
I can't take another inning of Mackowiak in CF. How many runs is this guy gonna cost us? Not to mention the extra pitches and all the other problems defensive miscues cost. Plain and simple, he's not a CF and never has been. He was a role player on the ****in pirates and now he's supposed to center for the world champs? Come on. Even if he happens to go 2-4 in a game, it's not worth the defensive liability. It's well known that he gets terrible jumps on balls and then doesn't take charge on balls he should catch (i.e. the pop up off uribe's glove that he should have not too long ago). Now we can add an uncatchable throw to third. That directly led to two - maybe more - runs. What is going on here? Having him in center flys directly in the face of everything the baseball world learned last year about the importance of pitching and defense. I'm sure it's just as painful for him as it is for the rest of us to watch. His body language seems to indicate that he also knows he shouldn't be out there - COME ON OZZIE GIVE IT UP.

TheOldRoman
09-02-2006, 02:41 AM
And we've had a lot of near comebacks like this. It isn't like the previous near comebacks have driven the team on to great heights. Show me a win, not a moral victory. Yep, there is our great offense for you! It reads like a book, over and over again: swing from the shoetops, try to hit it 600 feet every time, chase horrible pitches in the dirt or a foot outside, and then watch meatballs cross the plate. If this team has any pride, it should be hurt right now. Runelvys Hernandez is one of the worst starters in MLB, and he has "dominated" them twice. Actually, he pitched like crap and the hitters humiliated themselves by overswinging. Once again our offense cost us a game. Yesterday we faced a horrible pitcher, and should have knocked him out in the 4th. We got 3 off of him, then went to sleep against a ****ty bullpen. Today we faced another horrible pitcher, and all we managed was a solo homer. Jose was horrible, but any game against Runelvys Hernandez and the Royals' bullpen where the offense doesn't score at least 8 runs is a failure.
Several times this year our "powerful" offense has slept through the 6th, usually against a horrible pitcher, only to turn it on late and fall just short. This is the prevailing attitude among this team. They can supposedly turn it on in crunch time, when they need to, so they don't go all out. They are so good that they don't need to try all the time. Our "comeback" tonight was a joke, and the pitchers we scored off of were much better pitchers than Hernandez. Our offense has no trouble facing good pitchers, or great closers, but they lose concentration and give a half-assed effort against pitchers they should pound.
Jose didn't get help from the defense, but it was another horrible outing for him. I almost hope he is injured, because that would at least answer why he has been so bad. Just as Buehrle has come out of it, Contreras went deeper in than Mark. Even if Javy keeps it up, it probably still won't be enough to make the playoffs considering Freddy and Jose being nearly an automatic loss. Our bullpen is underachieving almost as much as the starters. This team has the potential to be the best in baseball, but potential and a nickle will get you a hot cup of jack squat. Maybe during their October golf rounds they can tell their buddies "legendary" stories about how they came back against all those closers, or about all the homers, but this team is making the season a failure. If they don't make the playoffs, this season was worthless, and they let us all down.
This was another horrible, inexcusable, embarrassing loss. I have always been one of the more optimistic people on here, but there isn't that much the be optimistic about right now. Can this team turn it around? In theory, yes. In theory they are lightyears ahead of any other team. However, we have seen the same crap all season, underachieving on offense, defense, and especially in pitching, and I see no reason why it will suddenly come together like a flick of the switch. They played three horrible games against the Devil Rays, and probably deserved to lose all three. A win is a win, but those first two games would have been losses against any other team, including the Royals.:angry:

southsideirish71
09-02-2006, 02:41 AM
I can't take another inning of Mackowiak in CF. How many runs is this guy gonna cost us? Not to mention the extra pitches and all the other problems defensive miscues cost. Plain and simple, he's not a CF and never has been. He was a role player on the ****in pirates and now he's supposed to center for the world champs? Come on. Even if he happens to go 2-4 in a game, it's not worth the defensive liability. It's well known that he gets terrible jumps on balls and then doesn't take charge on balls he should catch (i.e. the pop up off uribe's glove that he should have not too long ago). Now we can add an uncatchable throw to third. That directly led to two - maybe more - runs. What is going on here? Having him in center flys directly in the face of everything the baseball world learned last year about the importance of pitching and defense. I'm sure it's just as painful for him as it is for the rest of us to watch. His body language seems to indicate that he also knows he shouldn't be out there - COME ON OZZIE GIVE IT UP.

From Macks own mouth...


"I've been horrible, actually," Mackowiak said. "There's no point in lying or candy-coating anything. It's been bad.

"I don't know if it's not being out there much in your career and you get out there and you are overexposed. Before, I would play one [game] in right, one in center and maybe play third. But when you go out there on a daily basis, you see the stuff you need to work on to get better at a certain position."

It's something I need to work on in the winter and try to get better defensively, because it has been absolutely terrible this year," Mackowiak said. "My routes are not as crisp as a guy like Brian's are. You are taking banana routes to balls and it becomes a struggle.

"You continue to keep trying to get better, but it's frustrating because it's an important position up the middle to have good defense. It's frustrating to not do your best out there and that it sometimes hurts the team."

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-02-2006, 02:49 AM
Old Roman's Speech
If I direct a movie about the White Sox one day...Do I have your permission to use that speech? Seriously I love this line: This team has the potential to be the best in baseball, but potential and a nickle will get you a hot cup of jack squat. Well Played, Mr.Roman, Well Played :gulp:

0o0o0
09-02-2006, 02:58 AM
Didn't see much of the game. Based on the posts:

- Jose = bad
- Offense = typically inconsistent
- Mack doing his thing in center
- JD doing his thing at the plate

Sucks to say this, but I can't say I'm all that surprised.

JB98
09-02-2006, 03:00 AM
From Macks own mouth...


"I've been horrible, actually," Mackowiak said. "There's no point in lying or candy-coating anything. It's been bad.

"I don't know if it's not being out there much in your career and you get out there and you are overexposed. Before, I would play one [game] in right, one in center and maybe play third. But when you go out there on a daily basis, you see the stuff you need to work on to get better at a certain position."

It's something I need to work on in the winter and try to get better defensively, because it has been absolutely terrible this year," Mackowiak said. "My routes are not as crisp as a guy like Brian's are. You are taking banana routes to balls and it becomes a struggle.

"You continue to keep trying to get better, but it's frustrating because it's an important position up the middle to have good defense. It's frustrating to not do your best out there and that it sometimes hurts the team."

Someone should send those comments to Ozzie. Truth be told, though, the defensive mistake by Cintron was the catalyst for the disastrous fourth inning tonight.

CaptainBallz
09-02-2006, 03:14 AM
Someone should send those comments to Ozzie. Truth be told, though, the defensive mistake by Cintron was the catalyst for the disastrous fourth inning tonight.

True, but even that needs to be pitched around. Errors happen. Three in one winning w/ the pitcher fanning the flames? Eh...happens to teams playing like ****.

But the quotes from Macko are gold and echo what has been said here numerous times...The guy knows he doesn't belong in center! He needs help in the winter!! Translation: NEXT YEAR!!!
And here we have the guy that was platooned, Brian Anderson, hitting the cover off the ball and the goddam coach doesn't realize that he should probably reinsert him into his natural position and let Mackowiack get playing time in positions he's more accustomed to, so that other people that actually are struggling (P**s) can get their frickin heads straight.

My opinion, either a) there's something about BA we don't know b) Ozzie's just being a jagbag or C) we're all ****ing crazy.

I know Mack had little to do with last nights nonsense, but he still had little to do with the Sox winning that game too.

BainesHOF
09-02-2006, 03:26 AM
Ya Ozzie made 3 errors in the 4th inning.

This has nothing to do with Ozzie's bad managing.

On second thought, even that does. Mackoviak proved long ago to everyone except Ozzie that he should never play center field for a contending team. And Cintron should not receive a start at shortstop in September.

Mohoney
09-02-2006, 03:35 AM
From Macks own mouth...


"I've been horrible, actually," Mackowiak said. "There's no point in lying or candy-coating anything. It's been bad.

"I don't know if it's not being out there much in your career and you get out there and you are overexposed. Before, I would play one [game] in right, one in center and maybe play third. But when you go out there on a daily basis, you see the stuff you need to work on to get better at a certain position."

It's something I need to work on in the winter and try to get better defensively, because it has been absolutely terrible this year," Mackowiak said. "My routes are not as crisp as a guy like Brian's are. You are taking banana routes to balls and it becomes a struggle.

"You continue to keep trying to get better, but it's frustrating because it's an important position up the middle to have good defense. It's frustrating to not do your best out there and that it sometimes hurts the team."

OK, he ACTUALLY used the word "overexposed" here. The player himself referred to it as "overexposed".

Now I feel even worse for Mack. These comments seem like he's BEGGING Ozzie to reduce his playing time at a position that he knows he can't handle.

Will this guy EVER get a day or 2 at 3B in our uniform? How about LF or RF?

QCIASOXFAN
09-02-2006, 03:38 AM
This has nothing to do with Ozzie's bad managing.

On second thought, even that does. Mackoviak proved long ago to everyone except Ozzie that he should never play center field for a contending team. And Cintron should not receive a start at shortstop in September.Its funny even when Mack is making comments about his awful CF play. The thing about Ozzie is he doesn't give a **** what anyone thinks. We know hes going to put Mack in CF again, we also know that he will leave the starters in to long again because he says it"shows them confidence" I may not always agree with all Ozzie's moves or lineups but none of it surprises me anymore because thats what he is going to do.

BainesHOF
09-02-2006, 04:18 AM
Despite what he says, Ozzie manages like he wants to be liked by all of his players. No good manager does that. A lot of bad ones do.

spiffie
09-02-2006, 04:43 AM
25 losses to garbage teams that other clubs are beating with regularity.
At the moment the Royals don't fall into that category. Since August 8 they are 3-0 against the Red Sox, 4-2 against the White Sox, 2-1 against the Twins, and 2-2 against Oakland. They may lose 100 games, but the Royals of August and September are clearly a better team than the Royals we blew games to earlier this year.

Runelvys Hernandez is one of the worst starters in MLB, and he has "dominated" them twice.
Someone forgot to tell him that. Problem is Hernandez is an inconsistent pitcher, capable of very good starts, and capable of awful ones. This year he has put together some very good games:
4/26 v. MIN - 7IP, 1R, 2H
5/1 v. DET - 6.2 IP, 3R, 6H
7/21 v. LAA - 7.1 IP, 3R, 5H
8/10 v. BOS - 7 IP, 4R, 7H
8/15 v. CHI - 7.2 IP, 2R, 8H
8/26 v. TOR - 9 IP, 0R, 7H

He's not a great pitcher by any stretch, but he's far from an automatic win. Catch him on a bad day, you'll shell him. On a good day though, he can pitch against any team in the league and hold his own.

Grzegorz
09-02-2006, 05:53 AM
Well....

First off, Joe was part of that bad defense... Second, he had bases loaded in the last two innings and didn't deliver. He's certainly a contributor.

Joe didn't have a great game but this loss rests on the shoulders of Jose Contreras. Having to rely on the bats to bail a team out time after time because your pitching put you in a hole is Fool's gold.

Contreras' results as of late has been pathetic. Whether he's injured or tired I don't know. But at a time when it would appear that Mark Buerhle is working through his issues, JC goes into the tank.

The starting staff is not dependable; it cannot be figured on as a strength of this team. It can be figured as a weakness of the team. Shoring up the starting staff is priority number one in the off season. If that means trading Contreras and Garcia than so be it, though a trade now will bring less in return for either arm.

Why does Ozzie continue to run out Mackwiac in CF? I love Mac and he does a great job within parameters; run him out in CF and you get the results you see. He's learning the job on the fly in the middle of a playoff race.

Every game is at a premium; a manager has to play the percentages and put your best team out in the field. "Team" includes defense which we've seen can kick a game just as easily as poor pitching or a lack of hitting. I wonder where KW position is on the issue of running Mac out in CF.

I still do not get the Haeger call-up; why take a chance on a knuckler when the playoffs are on the line? Why not call up Tracy to see what he can do? After all we'll need an arm in the bullpen next year with Brandon McCarthy moving into the starting staff.

Hmm, the White Sox have never made the playoffs in consecutive years? Didn't know that...

Hey guys how about busting this streak???

Dan H
09-02-2006, 07:36 AM
I think the title of the thread is right on the money. How many of these rallies have fallen short this year? It is because of bad starting pitching. They get behind and the offense tries to get back in it but has too high deep a hole to dig out of. Like in the division race, which is now over, not that the Sox had a chance anyway once they fell 10 games behind. Last year the Sox had a lead in their first 37 games. Could that be one reason they were winning?

I didn't hear Hawk's comment but he has to be kidding if we think moral victories are worth anything now. This is September. It is time to win. Save the feeling good stuff for Cub fans.

It's time to really face facts. This team just doesn't have it. If they get into the playoffs, they will go down like Boston did last year. This team has been struggling for two months now. If starters can't get past the fifth or sixth, the team will have many more rallies that fall short. We've been waiting for the team to turn it around. We are still waiting.

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 07:49 AM
I don't mind Haeger pitching at all. You should give all pitchers the benefit of more than one start at the MLB level (unless they're Arnie Munoz) to determine their fates.

It's not as if Tracey, McCarthy, Riske and Cotts alone could pitch in blowout games anyway. And with our starting staff continuing to struggle, it's looking like we might have at least 10 more games like that to look forward to this month.

Now, if they brought up Broadway, Montero, and a couple of more and nobody got enough work to stay sharp, it would be kind of pointless. However, just sitting on the bench during this stretch would be helpful for any player to improve their craft, from Jerry Owens to Haeger to Sweeney to Fields.

Wsoxmike59
09-02-2006, 08:11 AM
Someone should send those comments to Ozzie. Truth be told, though, the defensive mistake by Cintron was the catalyst for the disastrous fourth inning tonight.

I disagree, I thought Rob Mackowiak's ill advised throw to 3B was the catalyst for the big inning, it allowed Ryan Shealy in to 2B with NOBODY OUT, and set up the big inning.

Alex Cintron may have had a chance at a force play at 2B on the next play had Rob Mackowiak not allowed Shealy in to 2B.
The most important thing OF'ers are taught, you KEEP THE DOUBLE PLAY in order, to help out your pitching staff.

samram
09-02-2006, 08:13 AM
The Royals did us a big favor by just winning a series at the twinkiedome, where the twins have an awesome record. I think it's safe to say that right now, the Royals ARE a quality opponent.

Yeah, I'm sure the Twins are sitting over in the Bronx thinking it was no big deal to lose two of three at home to KC because, you know, that's a quality opponent, but they sure were close losses.:rolleyes:

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 08:15 AM
The game would have stayed one-sided had it not been for the bullpen nightmare that is Royals reliever Ambiorix Burgos. Deciding to play with fire, Kansas City manager Buddy Bell thought it was a good idea to bring Burgos into the game with the bases loaded in the eighth.
Forget the fact that his 12 blown saves this season was just three shy of the major-league record set by Rollie Fingers in 1976.

funny stuff from suntimes.com, you would have thought only Royals' beat writers could come up with these gems

By the way, I think Scott Proctor is nearing or closing on Burgos in this category. Thanks for giving DET a game Wednesday, Scott. And thanks, Cleveland Indians, wherever you may be. Between Shapiro and Hendry, it's like they're both trying to sabotage the Sox this season with their moves.

Not only couldn't Rivera close both games, but Wang was pushed back to Tuesday and then Mussina comes off the DL at the same time, both missing the Twins.

samram
09-02-2006, 08:28 AM
The team I broadcast for won 63-0 tonight, I get home, immediately put on the computer and read this half assed suck effort tonight.

25 losses to garbage teams that other clubs are beating with regularity.

Pissing away chances to put distance between themselves and the Twins and to avoid having to play criticle games against those guys at their place at the end of the season.

I shouldn't even have turned the damn computer on.

Great effort tonight guys! Just great.

Lip

But it's a moral victory, Lip. Remember, you get half a win for each of those tacked on to your win total at the end of the year.:D:

wassagstdu
09-02-2006, 10:08 AM
Note to Ozzie:
Mac in CF has been absolutely terrible this year. His routes are not as crisp as Brian's are. He is taking banana routes to balls. He's been horrible, actually. There's no point in lying or candy-coating anything. He's been bad.

And by the way, everything in italics is a direct quote from Mac himself.

.

WSox597
09-02-2006, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by QCIASOXFAN
The thing about Ozzie is he doesn't give a **** what anyone thinks. We know hes going to put Mack in CF again

You're right, and that brings up the next question. If everybody sees this, including the player involved, shouldn't the next move be up to the GM? If the manager is stumbling along "mi manera" shouldn't KW tune him up?

That's what should happen. If players mess up, the manager is supposed to set them straight. If the manager is messing up, the GM should straighten him out.

I don't have a count handy, I wonder just how many games putting the wrong guy in CF and bringing out pitchers that have lost it have cost the team? My guess is somewhere around 10 games, more or less.

Man, I feel bad for Mackowiak. He hasn't had a chance out in CF all year, and he keeps getting sent out there. He must feel like a kamikaze pilot.

downstairs
09-02-2006, 10:30 AM
But it's a moral victory, Lip. Remember, you get half a win for each of those tacked on to your win total at the end of the year.:D:

Yep!

I just did some research and the White Sox are actually in first place in the AL Central now, on pace for 110 wins, all because of the additional moral victories.

Unfortunately, the Moral Playoffs and Moral World Series is held on local golf courses near where all the players of the 22 teams who didn't make the real playoffs live.


(Teal implied)

Tragg
09-02-2006, 10:40 AM
Yep, there is our great offense for you! It reads like a book, over and over again: swing from the shoetops, try to hit it 600 feet every time, chase horrible pitches in the dirt or a foot outside, and then watch meatballs cross the plate. It's the offense we had from 2001-2004.
But do we want any different? Ozzie likes bunting and steals, but is there any evidence that Guillen wants plate patience? He had zero patience as a hitter himself (and seems to regard himself as a capable hitter, although he wasn't) and seems to love the swing at everything players.
Another thing thing - the big cog in our execution last year was Iguchi. That has been stifled, it seems to me, for 2 reasons. First, Pods hasn't gotten on base as often; second, with thome added to the lineup, there's just not as much reason to bunt and move runners around. Yet, even last year, most of our runs were, ultimately, via the HR.
So while our O still isn't as great as it looks statistically, the difference with this team is the D and the pitching.
And why Guillen insists on putting Rob M in center instead of left remains weird to me. Put him in left...you can't do much damage there.
Guillen needs to give his ego a 2 month sabattical.

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 11:04 AM
Thome has managed to hit into some DP's despite the weird defensive alignments, although with less proficiency than Konerko or Crede.

TornLabrum
09-02-2006, 11:35 AM
You're right, and that brings up the next question. If everybody sees this, including the player involved, shouldn't the next move be up to the GM? If the manager is stumbling along "mi manera" shouldn't KW tune him up?

It was the GM who left Ozzie with only three natural outfielders on this team.

Lip Man 1
09-02-2006, 11:57 AM
Spiffie:

Does that explain the two losses to the Triple A Royals the first week of the season?

How about the game the Sox pissed away to them in the 9th inning back on May 5th?

PLEASE

The Kansas City Royals are a piss poor Triple A club that the Sox should be beating the **** out of at will.

They are 36 games UNDER .500 for a reason.

Playing better my ass.

Fine.....talk to me about those 'much improved' Tampa Bay Devil Rays?

Lip

Lip Man 1
09-02-2006, 11:58 AM
Hal:

Hadn't really considered your point until now but it's well taken. Guess Kenny left the team in a bind in two areas from the off season...outfielders and bullpen.

Lip

Medford Bobby
09-02-2006, 12:22 PM
Really...I think Kenny thought the bull pen was set. He needed to keep looking for more Matt Thorton type deals early on. However our needs for bull pen and CF would not be so apparent if starting pitching was any thing like last year..........:(:

Lip Man 1
09-02-2006, 12:28 PM
Hey Bob:

This is just the way I looked at it but when you trade a third of the six man bullpen that you had in 2005 and then a third member of it gets hurt, I don't see how he could have considered it 'set.'

I mean Boone Logan made the roster for God's sake and he didn't pitch above Great Falls, Montana.

Instead of getting the help that was needed in the off season (he eventually would in June / July) he signs nine cast off's, has been's and never were's and hoped to catch lightning in a bottle.

Didn't happen.

Which is partially why the bullpen blew five games the Sox were leading in the 7th inning or later before or on June 1st.

That's why he finally had to overhaul the bullpen the past two months.

Lip

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 12:29 PM
I think they were counting on M. Myers to sign with them instead of the Yankees, then were caught a little off guard and had to scramble.

TheOldRoman
09-02-2006, 01:33 PM
I think the title of the thread is right on the money. How many of these rallies have fallen short this year? It is because of bad starting pitching. They get behind and the offense tries to get back in it but has too high deep a hole to dig out of. Like in the division race, which is now over, not that the Sox had a chance anyway once they fell 10 games behind. Last year the Sox had a lead in their first 37 games. Could that be one reason they were winning? You are right. The horrible offensive performance from our hitters had nothing to do with them not getting out of the hole. The fact that they faced a horrible starting pitcher, and made him look like Cy Young, had nothing to do with the loss.:rolleyes:
Jose's defense hurt him big time, but he had a bad game. However, Hernandez is garbage, and their bullpen sucks, too. This offense should have put up 8 runs easily last night. They (the offense) dug themselves too deep of a hole as often as the pitching has. There is no excuse at all for going to sleep as much as our offense has. There is no excuse for being dominated by some of the worst pitchers in the game. They sleep through 2/3 of the game, and then expect to turn it on and score 9 an inning. It doesn't work like that. Our offense blew the game last night.

digdagdug23
09-02-2006, 01:45 PM
Spiffie:

Does that explain the two losses to the Triple A Royals the first week of the season?

How about the game the Sox pissed away to them in the 9th inning back on May 5th?

PLEASE

The Kansas City Royals are a piss poor Triple A club that the Sox should be beating the **** out of at will.

They are 36 games UNDER .500 for a reason.

Playing better my ass.

Fine.....talk to me about those 'much improved' Tampa Bay Devil Rays?

Lip

Not to demean anything Lip has said, I usually agree with him quite a bit. BUT, if the Royals are such a pathetic excuse for a team, how did they manage to win a series against the twinks, in the hell-hole, and we are lucky to get out of there with 1? Is this a commentary on us, the Twins, Royals, or all of the above?

caulfield12
09-02-2006, 01:52 PM
They beat Oakland 2/3, and I think that might be the only series the A's have lost in the last two months.

We all know about their sweep of the Red Sox.

They're a dangerous team, because they're playing with a renewed sense of urgency to impress their new GM, but they're also not under pressure collectively as a team, they're just much more confident. Teahen is one of the prime examples...in the first half of the season, he hit so poorly they had to send him to Omaha.

MrX
09-03-2006, 01:57 AM
The thing about Ozzie is he doesn't give a **** what anyone thinks. We know hes going to put Mack in CF again
That's pretty much sums up Ozzie's quotes on the Trib's website about Mack in CF, minus the ****:smile:

DaleJRFan
09-03-2006, 02:10 AM
That's pretty much sums up Ozzie's quotes on the Trib's website about Mack in CF, minus the ****:smile:

Here's what Ozzie had to say:

Why you play Mackowiak? Well, we've been playing Mackowiak since the beginning of the season. We are not going to change anything. One thing about it is if I start changing the way we play all year long, they start to panic. I'm not panicking. I will go with the guys I trust. We go with the guys we've had all year long and, hopefully, they perform well.

MrX
09-03-2006, 02:18 AM
One thing about it is if I start changing the way we play all year long, they start to panic.
Who's "they"? I think the players, Mack included, and the fans would both be happy if they never saw him out there again.

MrX
09-03-2006, 02:19 AM
One thing about it is if I start changing the way we play all year long, they start to panic.
Who's "they"? I think the players, Mack included, and the fans would both be happy if they never saw him out there again.

MrX
09-03-2006, 02:21 AM
One thing about it is if I start changing the way we play all year long, they start to panic.
Who's "they"? I think the players, Mack included, and the fans would both be happy if they never saw him out there again.

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-03-2006, 03:06 AM
Who's "they"? I think the players, Mack included, and the fans would both be happy if they never saw him out there again.

BadBobbyJenks
09-03-2006, 04:17 AM
Dont call it a comeback 125 gathwrong 45

spiffie
09-03-2006, 09:50 AM
Spiffie:

Does that explain the two losses to the Triple A Royals the first week of the season?

How about the game the Sox pissed away to them in the 9th inning back on May 5th?

PLEASE

The Kansas City Royals are a piss poor Triple A club that the Sox should be beating the **** out of at will.

They are 36 games UNDER .500 for a reason.

Playing better my ass.

Fine.....talk to me about those 'much improved' Tampa Bay Devil Rays?

Lip
You're right Lip. They've been winning all the games they won over the last month as part of a league agreement to help give their fans something to be happy about.

The games in April and May are ones we should be pissed about. We were playing them at a time when they were an absolutely awful team. Giving the Royals 2 of their 5 wins in the month of April was an early sign that this team was not going to be as sharp day in and day out as the 2005 squad was. The May debacle was the same thing.

However you are letting your anger and your general disdain of KC cloud your opinion of the team now. And I worry that the same thing may be happening still with the Sox. In August the Royals were 12-18, which doesn't sound that good admittedly. However, 4 of those losses were 1-run losses basically gift wrapped by a ****ty pen, especially Ambiorix Burgos. If they had any sort of decent closer they finish the month 16-14. In July they were 11-16 with another 7 1-run losses. The last 2 months they have been finding ways to stay close with teams no matter what the quality level is. If the Sox are within a game of Detroit going into the final series I will not be automatically assuming the division is wrapped up for the Tigers. And that's why the Sox need to be ready to play these guys as if they are the Twins or Tigers or Yankees. Not because they are as talented, but they are not going to give games up easily anymore.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 11:57 AM
The Yankees arrive in town tomorrow (KC).

I'm anxious to see how well the Royals do against them.