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View Full Version : Freddy's plunking of Young intentional?


chaerulez
08-30-2006, 02:30 PM
I didn't catch the game last night until the later innings, and I did see AJ get hit and I was pretty sure that was intentional but didn't know why. I knew Young had been plunked earlier, but I didn't know it was on purpose until I listened to the radio with Holmes and Bernstein talking about it just now. Now I suppose there is no way to truly tell if it was intentional, but you can pretty much tell most of time, just like I saw the AJ beaning to be intentional that the Young at bat is pretty clear cut as well. If Freddy was throwing at Young, all I have to say is he should focus on pitching better. I don't think anyone here condones what Young did, but that gives them no excuse to hit him.

Sargeant79
08-30-2006, 02:35 PM
I didn't catch the game last night until the later innings, and I did see AJ get hit and I was pretty sure that was intentional but didn't know why. I knew Young had been plunked earlier, but I didn't know it was on purpose until I listened to the radio with Holmes and Bernstein talking about it just now. Now I suppose there is no way to truly tell if it was intentional, but you can pretty much tell most of time, just like I saw the AJ beaning to be intentional that the Young at bat is pretty clear cut as well. If Freddy was throwing at Young, all I have to say is he should focus on pitching better. I don't think anyone here condones what Young did, but that gives them no excuse to hit him.

I was there last night. It sure looked like it was intentional to me, and the crowd seemed to think it was, but I couldn't really tell for sure. The argument against it being intentional is that Freddy's command wasn't very good last night at all. He threw something like 4 pitches in front of home plate in the first few innings, so maybe the one that hit Young just got away from him.

Tekijawa
08-30-2006, 02:36 PM
It clipped him in the elbo pad, but it was headed for the Ribs, it looked intentional to me and I laughed when it happend because I was hoping that he would at least get booed, which he was. I'll hold onto the hope that it was intentional, because it should have been!

QCIASOXFAN
08-30-2006, 02:42 PM
I'm just happy we hit somebody first.:thumbsup:

GregoryEtc
08-30-2006, 02:45 PM
That was a pretty safe bet for a plunking that wouldn't get a warning from the umpire. Young is going to have a dickens of a time getting out from under the "bat chucker" cloud. I can't help but think that he's going to have a wide strike zone for the first few years of his career.

WS in 05
08-30-2006, 02:47 PM
He should get hit once in every series for the ouburtst he had in AAA. Throwing a bat like that, from so far away with some velocity, is just uncalled for. WE now know that it runs in the family after Dmitri got caught with his little escapades.

Madvora
08-30-2006, 02:47 PM
I'm betting intentional

samram
08-30-2006, 02:52 PM
Freddy just doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is going out there to serve baseball justice. If he was, he's dumb for putting anyone on base when any baserunner may as well be awarded second base automatically.

Unregistered
08-30-2006, 02:54 PM
Nah, I think that's bull****. Freddy himself admitted to not even knowing who the guy was. This was mentioned in a WTS? thread, as well:

Garcia also drew the ire of the Devil Rays for hitting Delmon Young in his first major-league at-bat after serving a 50-game suspension in the minors for throwing his bat at an umpire.

"Who?" Garcia replied when asked about the incident. "I try to pitch inside. I was all over the place, anyway. I didn't have great command."

When Garcia was informed the Devil Rays thought his plucking was intentional, he replied, "I don't know why. I don't know that kid. I don't really pay attention to other stuff. I try to pitch inside, and I hit him. It's no big deal."

FedEx227
08-30-2006, 02:56 PM
Ugh.

Let me get this straight. Ozzie moans and complains when AJ gets hit by just about every team in the league, most of which have never been affected by anything AJ has ever done ala Padilla and the Rangers. All White Sox fans go nuts about the fact that AJ gets hit and that its completely BS that somebody doesn't do something about it...

Yet last night, we hit a rookie in his first at-bat for something he did in AAA, got suspended for and personally apologized to everyone in the D-Rays organization and all of the Devil Rays players? Yet, it's good that we did that. Then it was good that Padilla hit AJ because he didn't like him. Or that Escobar hit AJ because he hung a slider to Crede. How are we any better than those scum if we support what Ozzie did? How did Delmon throwing a bat at a replacement ump in a Triple A game in any way effect Ozzie Guillen, Freddy Garcia, the Chicago White Sox or MLB as a whole. It didn't.

It's sad to see people happy that this happened and I'm very glad Delmon made a fool out of us by hitting a homerun during the game. What we did was a Showalter move. Unprovoked hitting. Yes, he had an outburst. We all make mistakes, should Jamal Lewis be chop-blocked everytime he steps on the field because he was in jail and involved in drug trafficing?

I lost a lot of respect for Ozzie Guillen last night... in the middle of an intense Wild-Card/Divisonal race and we intentionally put guys on base to prove a silly point and to be "old-baseball" stubborn.

hawkjt
08-30-2006, 02:56 PM
yea, holmes is ''outraged and mad'' that the sox hit young. Berns also , of course.

Personally, I do not see Freddie as that aware of what this kid did , and even so , I do not see freddie giving a flying flip about what he did. When Freddie is asked afterward about the delmon young ''saga'' and he responds'' who?''

that is funny. but no way did Freddie do it on his own. Either Ozzie ordered it or freddie just threw yet another pitch that slices off to the right. I am actually guessing the later. Freddie does not have the command to actually throw it where he wants half the time and he is going to hit the kid perfectly?

I dont buy it. I just think it got away and obviously the kid is a dangerous hitter so you want that inside corner established.

BA: The Hitman
08-30-2006, 03:03 PM
I hope it was intentional.....delmon young, no matter how good he is or is supposed to be is a disgrace to the game for what he did.........it was great to see him not realize where the fence was and give that 3 run bomb to JD and then get plunked in his first MLB at bat.......welcome to the big leagues delmon!

DaleJRFan
08-30-2006, 03:08 PM
Ugh.

I lost a lot of respect for Ozzie Guillen last night... in the middle of an intense Wild-Card/Divisonal race and we intentionally put guys on base to prove a silly point and to be "old-baseball" stubborn.

Why? Because you don't even know for sure that it was intentional?? Freddy hits guys like crazy, maybe not as bad as Vazquez, but he hits way too many guys.

NoShoesJoe
08-30-2006, 03:17 PM
I hope it was intentional.....delmon young, no matter how good he is or is supposed to be is a disgrace to the game for what he did.........it was great to see him not realize where the fence was and give that 3 run bomb to JD and then get plunked in his first MLB at bat.......welcome to the big leagues delmon!


He will NEVER live down the fact that he's a spiteful little *****! Deservedly so.

FedEx227
08-30-2006, 03:24 PM
Why? Because you don't even know for sure that it was intentional?? Freddy hits guys like crazy, maybe not as bad as Vazquez, but he hits way too many guys.
Because I watched the game, it was clearly intentional.

It was no different then what Padilla/Escobar and countless others have been doing to AJ all year.

bludupree
08-30-2006, 03:37 PM
Ugh.

Let me get this straight. Ozzie moans and complains when AJ gets hit by just about every team in the league, most of which have never been affected by anything AJ has ever done ala Padilla and the Rangers. All White Sox fans go nuts about the fact that AJ gets hit and that its completely BS that somebody doesn't do something about it...

Yet last night, we hit a rookie in his first at-bat for something he did in AAA, got suspended for and personally apologized to everyone in the D-Rays organization and all of the Devil Rays players? Yet, it's good that we did that. Then it was good that Padilla hit AJ because he didn't like him. Or that Escobar hit AJ because he hung a slider to Crede. How are we any better than those scum if we support what Ozzie did? How did Delmon throwing a bat at a replacement ump in a Triple A game in any way effect Ozzie Guillen, Freddy Garcia, the Chicago White Sox or MLB as a whole. It didn't.

It's sad to see people happy that this happened and I'm very glad Delmon made a fool out of us by hitting a homerun during the game. What we did was a Showalter move. Unprovoked hitting. Yes, he had an outburst. We all make mistakes, should Jamal Lewis be chop-blocked everytime he steps on the field because he was in jail and involved in drug trafficing?

I lost a lot of respect for Ozzie Guillen last night... in the middle of an intense Wild-Card/Divisonal race and we intentionally put guys on base to prove a silly point and to be "old-baseball" stubborn.

I don't have anything against Young and I don't think we should have thrown at him, but you are a pretty fickle fan if an incident this minor makes you lose a lot of respect for Ozzie Guillen. Either that or you for some reason didn't like him to begin with.

MarySwiss
08-30-2006, 03:41 PM
Is anyone watching Rome is Burning right now? I had it on, but I stepped into the laundry room for a minute, and when I got back to the living room, he was in the middle of a comment about this issue. So I didn't hear it all, but from what I did hear, it sounded like he was saying Ozzie did the right thing.

Anyone catch the whole comment?

fuzzy_patters
08-30-2006, 03:46 PM
Is anyone watching Rome is Burning right now? I had it on, but I stepped into the laundry room for a minute, and when I got back to the living room, he was in the middle of a comment about this issue. So I didn't hear it all, but from what I did hear, it sounded like he was saying Ozzie did the right thing.

Anyone catch the whole comment?

He said that Ozzie was defending the integrity of the game, and that Young deserved it. He also said that Young should get used to it because it is going to happen every series.

chaerulez
08-30-2006, 04:03 PM
I agree with FedEx. If you think Young should've been hit (which in the middle of a playoff race, why do you want to bring in a possible beanball war?) you can't have it both ways and bitch, cry and moan about AJ getting hit. Granted what AJ has done is not nearly as bad as throwing a bat at an ump, but the guy did get suspended. Baseball handed him his punishment, I don't think the White Sox need to go around and inflict some kind of macho this is how it's going to be type of attitude.

I don't care how you feel about Young. Then boo him. There is no point for a team, especially one in chasing a playoff spot to hit him. What if a fight later broke out and injuries and suspensions happened? How would everyone feel then? Was "baseball justice" served? But for all the petty reasons AJ has gotten hit for this year, this really isn't much different. Delmon Young made a terrible mistake- which he has and still continue to pay for, but it's not the White Sox place to try and dish out some kind of judgement on him.

Norberto7
08-30-2006, 04:04 PM
As far as you can know without knowing, that was intentional. Early in the at-bat, right toward the meaty part of the body, punk kid in his first at-bat...

Anyone who claims to be "outraged" ought to be shot. You're not outraged.

I liked the move. I enjoy the delicious irony of telling a kid to grow up by hitting him with a ball.

83 ALROY
08-30-2006, 04:22 PM
I wouldn't take Garcia's comments into accout. I've never heard a pitcher admit to intentionally plunking a batter. There's too much at stake as far as fines, suspensions, and getting a bad reputation with the umps. As a rule, when a pitcher is asked about hitting a batter, they always deny, deny, deny.

It looked like a 'Welcome to the Big Leagues' kind of pitch. Garcia knew he could get away with it since the umpires were not going to side with Delmon Young, and the Sox had a seven run lead at the time.

hold2dibber
08-30-2006, 04:59 PM
Ugh.

Let me get this straight. Ozzie moans and complains when AJ gets hit by just about every team in the league, most of which have never been affected by anything AJ has ever done ala Padilla and the Rangers. All White Sox fans go nuts about the fact that AJ gets hit and that its completely BS that somebody doesn't do something about it...

Yet last night, we hit a rookie in his first at-bat for something he did in AAA, got suspended for and personally apologized to everyone in the D-Rays organization and all of the Devil Rays players? Yet, it's good that we did that. Then it was good that Padilla hit AJ because he didn't like him. Or that Escobar hit AJ because he hung a slider to Crede. How are we any better than those scum if we support what Ozzie did? How did Delmon throwing a bat at a replacement ump in a Triple A game in any way effect Ozzie Guillen, Freddy Garcia, the Chicago White Sox or MLB as a whole. It didn't.

It's sad to see people happy that this happened and I'm very glad Delmon made a fool out of us by hitting a homerun during the game. What we did was a Showalter move. Unprovoked hitting. Yes, he had an outburst. We all make mistakes, should Jamal Lewis be chop-blocked everytime he steps on the field because he was in jail and involved in drug trafficing?

I lost a lot of respect for Ozzie Guillen last night... in the middle of an intense Wild-Card/Divisonal race and we intentionally put guys on base to prove a silly point and to be "old-baseball" stubborn.

I generally agree with your sentiments except that I think the points you raise go to show that the plunking was NOT intentional. I don't think there's anyway that in the heat of this playoff race, the Sox would plunk a guy who hasn't done a single thing to/against the Sox. It's ridiculous - why would the Sox go out of their way to protect a AAA umpire? The whole thing is absurd. I don't doubt for a second that Freddy was trying to establish the inside corner against the rookie to put a little fear into him, but I don't think there's any chance that it was intentional (and if I'm wrong and it was intentional, whoever's decision it was is a moron).

MikeLove
08-30-2006, 05:38 PM
i sure hope they hit him intentionally. Listen up. What Young did even makes a little leaguer cringe. Everyone that has ever played baseball knows there is a code of respect along with the game and throwing a bat at an umpire is not in it. What Young did disgraced the game of baseball and everything it stands for. I was disgusted by it and I hope everyone, as baseball fans, was also disguted.

You might think you are hot ****, but you aren't above the rules of the game. You aren't special. You weren't even a Major League player yet. Hype doesn't mean squat. Guys have been pouring out their blood, sweat and tears on the diamond before you even sniffed a jock. Young thinking he can throw a bat at an umpire is an affront to anyone that has played the game.
I definitely think he needed to be humbled and would have ordered Freddy to hit him myself. However, it totally backfired because he came back with the homerun though :(:

BadBobbyJenks
08-30-2006, 06:49 PM
That looked like a welcome to the bigs Junior, shot to me.

BadBobbyJenks
08-30-2006, 06:54 PM
Ugh.

Let me get this straight. Ozzie moans and complains when AJ gets hit by just about every team in the league, most of which have never been affected by anything AJ has ever done ala Padilla and the Rangers. All White Sox fans go nuts about the fact that AJ gets hit and that its completely BS that somebody doesn't do something about it...

Yet last night, we hit a rookie in his first at-bat for something he did in AAA, got suspended for and personally apologized to everyone in the D-Rays organization and all of the Devil Rays players? Yet, it's good that we did that. Then it was good that Padilla hit AJ because he didn't like him. Or that Escobar hit AJ because he hung a slider to Crede. How are we any better than those scum if we support what Ozzie did? How did Delmon throwing a bat at a replacement ump in a Triple A game in any way effect Ozzie Guillen, Freddy Garcia, the Chicago White Sox or MLB as a whole. It didn't.

It's sad to see people happy that this happened and I'm very glad Delmon made a fool out of us by hitting a homerun during the game. What we did was a Showalter move. Unprovoked hitting. Yes, he had an outburst. We all make mistakes, should Jamal Lewis be chop-blocked everytime he steps on the field because he was in jail and involved in drug trafficing?

I lost a lot of respect for Ozzie Guillen last night... in the middle of an intense Wild-Card/Divisonal race and we intentionally put guys on base to prove a silly point and to be "old-baseball" stubborn.

Count me as one of the few people on here who doesnt cry every time we get plunked. I knew what was going on when young got hit and didnt care either way. A lot of people are going to say the punk deserved it and others are going to say he didnt. Who cares, because no one is right, and freddy did what he did.

FedEx227
08-30-2006, 10:05 PM
I don't have anything against Young and I don't think we should have thrown at him, but you are a pretty fickle fan if an incident this minor makes you lose a lot of respect for Ozzie Guillen. Either that or you for some reason didn't like him to begin with.
I love Ozzie Guillen, I never said I disliked him. Hell he was one of my idols growing up, I played SS in LL and always made sure my number was 13. But the fact is he was a hypocrite with this situation. As chaerulez said, you can't cry and moan about AJ getting hit for no reason then go and his Delmon for no reason. Maybe he broke the code of ethics blah blah blah... but when did the Sox turn into the police of baseball. MLB suspended him, he almost jeapordized his career, he learned enough.

Don't cofuse respect with like and dislike, they are completely different things. I still think Ozzie Guillen is the best manager the White Sox have ever had and I'll never forget what hes done for this city, but he was very hypocritical and lost a bit of respect in my mind. I always thought we were all about winning, not meaningless plunkings and initiations.

gobears1987
08-30-2006, 10:14 PM
Freddy just doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is going out there to serve baseball justice. You sure? Remember he did intentionally throw at D Lee last year. (in retaliation for the hitting of Iguchi)

I have to say that the one thing I like about Freddy is that he will hit players who deserve it.

gobears1987
08-30-2006, 10:16 PM
I'm glad we hit Young. I bet a LOT of teams hit him. He's a dirtbag and I applaud Ozzie.

RSox78
08-30-2006, 10:20 PM
I think he deserved to get hit and I was glad it happened. Its not like he threw at his head. Besides if one of the holy teams on the east coast hit him it would be a different story on espn now.

Gregory Pratt
08-30-2006, 10:29 PM
It was clearly intentional. Freddy Garcia has no problem plunking someone on purpose, and he certainly has no issue hitting a big-name (Lee, this hot**** prospect).

As far as him saying he didn't do it deliberately, or pretending he didn't know the player, he was either high and forgetting or lying. Period.

I loved the plunking of Young.
I hated the "Here, have a meatball" later.

But hey, Freddy Garcia's a gourmet chef. :P

Tragg
08-30-2006, 11:07 PM
Who named Guillen czar and enforcer of what's right and wrong in baseball?
What a busybody.
Apply for the commissioner's job, if that's what you want. Until then, give the ego a 60 day rest, play our best personnel and manage the living hell out of this team so that it can do something that it, incredibly, has never done...make postseason two consecutive years.

chaerulez
08-30-2006, 11:23 PM
I still don't get why so many Sox fans are in favor of plunking someone that had previously nothing (still really doesn't) to do with the Sox. Are we the moral police? Should whenever the Dodgers come into town next should we bean Rafael Furcal because of his multiple DUI charges? Should Bonds get beaned because he cheated and lies? What about Julio Lugo, didn't he get in a domestic dispute a few years ago, that doesn't seem very ethical so shouldn't we have beaned him sometime the past couple days? Where is the line drawn, or is was this an isolated incident to protect some unwritten baseball law with umpires. And if that is the case, again, why wasn't Roberto Alomar beaned after he spit on John Herschbeck? Or why weren't people calling for it? Because he was an all star veteran at the time and Delmon Young was just a minor leaguer? There was a risk being taken by throwing at Young, so why couldn't we just play baseball?

Mercy!
08-30-2006, 11:48 PM
This subject has been pretty well covered, but there is one point I haven't seen mentioned. When a Sox pitcher starts something like this with the first HBP that LOOKS intentional to everyone watching, then he is as much as saying, "Okay, now it's your turn to hit my battery mate." I don't see Dye or Thome or Konerko paying the price. Everyone in both leagues knows that AJ is the man on the Sox to tattoo when the time comes for a purpose pitch.

chaerulez
08-30-2006, 11:58 PM
Ozzie has gone public with this situation:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060830soxbrite,1,6426303.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Of course, I agree with Ozzie that there is no need for an intentional plunking. I disagree with him about his opinion that we shouldn't boo. I feel if we have a problem with Young that is EXACTLY what we should be doing instead of throwing at him. He does bring up a point that what does Freddy gain out of hitting him, but most people are agreeing that the beaning was intentional.

brewcrew/chisox
08-30-2006, 11:58 PM
He will NEVER live down the fact that he's a spiteful little *****! Deservedly so.

on this site, he'll live it down the moment he is traded to the white sox

Mercy!
08-31-2006, 12:07 AM
Ozzie has gone public with this situation:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060830soxbrite,1,6426303.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Okay now, that's creepy. The last paragraph echoes exactly what I said, including the order of the names - Dye, Thome, Konerko.

fquaye149
08-31-2006, 12:24 AM
Okay now, that's creepy. The last paragraph echoes exactly what I said, including the order of the names - Dye, Thome, Konerko.

Ozzie's a lurker.

But honestly--this is a silly situation going on in this thread.

How about the opinion, which Ozzie's expressed numerous times, and acted out numerous times that throwing at players is part of the game and that you have to protect your players.

I can count on one hand the times we've retaliated. I don't have enough hands to count the number of times we haven't retaliated. It seems silly to think that Ozzie's going to "welcome to the majors" with a beanball, when he very rarely calls for one himself. And when he does call for one he's rarely ashamed about it enough to act like he didn't call it.

My take--either Freddy did it on his own or he did it inadvertently. I'd lean toward the former--maybe Freddy figures any help he can get from the umps he'll take in this ****ty season he's having.

fquaye149
08-31-2006, 12:25 AM
on this site, he'll live it down the moment he is traded to the white sox

Oh, we gave it to Jeremy Giambi pretty good when he came here. And Albert Belle was never fully loved, despite his great seasons with the Sox.

Hell, some people actually ****ing hate Frank Thomas, and did when he was with the team.

If Delmon Young came here, I bet we'd have a moral majority harping on what a poison he will be to the team

(remember the rash of AJ knee-groin posts pre-2005?)

koz
08-31-2006, 02:40 AM
I tried to get on live with Boers/whoever, but could not and I think they missed the obvious point. Major league baseball is trying to improve their image with the steriod scandal and when delmon hit the ump with a bat it brought MLB further down. I think most veteran players saw this as a young punk who has earned nothing trying to deface the game that has provided the veterans with security for themselves and their family's. I'm just saying I would take it personel if I had a good thing going and some hot shot broke a cardinal rule (do not touch the ump). The Sox did not choose to enforce this , but instead I truly feel any team would of done the same thing. However the Sox just happen to be playing them when they brought up Delmon. You have to respect the game.

Juice16
08-31-2006, 06:30 AM
WHO CARES , why is there 3 pages of posts on this subject???!?!?!

chaerulez
08-31-2006, 08:41 AM
Oh, we gave it to Jeremy Giambi pretty good when he came here. And Albert Belle was never fully loved, despite his great seasons with the Sox.

Hell, some people actually ****ing hate Frank Thomas, and did when he was with the team.

If Delmon Young came here, I bet we'd have a moral majority harping on what a poison he will be to the team

(remember the rash of AJ knee-groin posts pre-2005?)

iI don't know, there's an odd amount of love for Carl Everett here, and he's done many questionable things on and off the field.

fquaye149
08-31-2006, 08:55 AM
iI don't know, there's an odd amount of love for Carl Everett here, and he's done many questionable things on and off the field.

But he had to prove himself to us first.

And most of his off the field problems (with the exception of striking an umpire ...not with a bat...many years ago) were actually kind of comical.

D. TODD
08-31-2006, 08:56 AM
I'm glad we hit Young. I bet a LOT of teams hit him. He's a dirtbag and I applaud Ozzie. Sounds alot like what other teams say about drilling A.J.. Who then got the "honor" of being plunked by the D- Rays after D. Young.

Iwritecode
08-31-2006, 09:41 AM
WHO CARES , why is there 3 pages of posts on this subject???!?!?!

Because you have your posts/page set way too low?

gobears1987
08-31-2006, 09:58 AM
Should Bonds get beaned because he cheated and lies? To answer that question, HELL YES!!!

I was so glad when the Astros threw at that ****ing *******.