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JorgeFabregas
08-29-2006, 11:04 PM
Is Neal feeling alright? He's having an especially rough month. .438 BAA, and that's before tonight. His WHIP is up over 1.5 for the season, which is awfully dangerous for a guy often called on with runners on.

lumpyspun
08-29-2006, 11:06 PM
Is Neal feeling alright? He's having an especially rough month. .438 BAA, and that's before tonight. His WHIP is up over 1.5 for the season, which is awfully dangerous for a guy often called on with runners on.

And August isn't over yet. Hopefully we don't see him again until Sektember.

QCIASOXFAN
08-29-2006, 11:08 PM
And August isn't over yet. Hopefully we don't see him again until Sektember.Hopefully we don't see him ever again. He is a ****ing bum now. Thank you for the past but now its time to move on.

LuzinskiFan
08-29-2006, 11:23 PM
Will Boone Logan be our second lefty in the pen come playoff time?

LuzinskiFan
08-29-2006, 11:26 PM
Last year at the victory parade Ed Farmer called Neal Cotts "The Gifted One." This year you can call him "The Gifting One" for all of the gifts he gives to opposing batters.

jenn2080
08-29-2006, 11:26 PM
dont forget about some of july too

BainesHOF
08-29-2006, 11:32 PM
Ozzie can no longer pitch Cotts when it's still a ballgame. We simply can't afford his terrible outings. Ozzie needs to pitch him in non-pressure situations to give him a chance to re-gain his lost confidence.

White City
08-29-2006, 11:34 PM
Ozzie can no longer pitch Cotts when it's still a ballgame. We simply can't afford his terrible outings. Ozzie needs to pitch him in non-pressure situations to give him a chance to re-gain his lost confidence.

You mean like an 11-5 lead?

ShoelessJoeS
08-29-2006, 11:35 PM
Boone Logan's season might come full circle after all.

Lip Man 1
08-29-2006, 11:48 PM
I don't think Boone Logan is going to be on the mound say if the Sox have to go to New York for the wild card.

Cotts is strickly mop up from now on in my book. When the Sox are 10 up or 10 down you'll see him (if I was manager)

Next year he needs to be watched closely early on and if he's still showing what he is now (i.e. nothing...) then he needs to be sent to Charlotte.

You can't make a definite judgement yet because he simply doesn't have a track record, we don't know who the real Cotts is...this year, or the 2005 version or somewhere in between.

Lip

JB98
08-29-2006, 11:49 PM
Ozzie can no longer pitch Cotts when it's still a ballgame. We simply can't afford his terrible outings. Ozzie needs to pitch him in non-pressure situations to give him a chance to re-gain his lost confidence.

That's what he tried tonight, and it quickly became a pressure situation. It's too bad because this team needs Cotts. I'm not willing to give up on him, like most people here. He's young, and he's left-handed. Hopefully, he can sort it out.

GarlandFan21
08-29-2006, 11:58 PM
i remeber reading an article in the program about how neal and politte were best friends....Has polittle rubbed off on cotts? Is neal missing his buddy? proprably not just thought id add that bit of info about cotts.(not meant to be taken seriously!)

DickAllen72
08-30-2006, 12:01 AM
Will Boone Logan be our second lefty in the pen come playoff time?

I don't know about that, but I don't want to see Cotts anywhere on the playoff roster. Add Owens or Stewart and drop Cotts with Javy moving to the pen.

BA: The Hitman
08-30-2006, 12:12 AM
I don't know about that, but I don't want to see Cotts anywhere on the playoff roster. Add Owens and drop Cotts with Javy moving to the pen.


I couldn't agree with that more..........until Cotts proves he can prove he can get batters out in a mop up situation, he should get real comfortable sittin in the pen

ChiSox4Life
08-30-2006, 12:16 AM
Can we get Cotts out of there, hes been sickening to watch lately. Everytime I see him warming up in the Bullpen my stomach turns sour. Send him to Triple A let him get some innings down there, then bring him up in like a week or 2. Because I never feel safe or confident when Neil Cotts is on the mound.

FedEx227
08-30-2006, 12:24 AM
i remeber reading an article in the program about how neal and politte were best friends....Has polittle rubbed off on cotts? Is neal missing his buddy? proprably not just thought id add that bit of info about cotts.

No. We hear this ALL the time, anytime anybody struggles its because his friends not there. These are professional athletes, do you know how many close "friends" they had on every team they've been on. Thats like saying the reason Chris Webber never won an NBA title was because he missed Jimmy King.

Mohoney
08-30-2006, 02:21 AM
Thats like saying the reason Chris Webber never won an NBA title was because he missed Jimmy King.

That's deep, FedEx. I never thought of it that way.

By the way, when will BJ Upton get removed from your sig? If he's the answer, then what the hell is the question?

hawkjt
08-30-2006, 02:35 AM
All I can figure is that he has lost some velocity - like that long ab- he was throwing strike after strike and he just could not get it by cantu and then he finally caught one flush.

He always has been 91-92 really and it was his shoulder turn that was deceptive- have they figured it out on him?

CaptainBallz
08-30-2006, 03:06 AM
I give Ozzie credit for giving Cotts credit. Tonight probably sealed his limited role fate. Unfortunate, but necessary.

DaleJRFan
08-30-2006, 03:51 AM
Will Boone Logan be our second lefty in the pen come playoff time?

was talking about this with a fellow WSI-er during the game tonight. I hope they'll bring Logan up in September. He's been pitching well in AAA and it can't get much worse than Cotts right now...

Mohoney
08-30-2006, 04:49 AM
I know that Cotts has been bad, but Boone Logan? Come on, people. If Boone Logan is the answer, then the question must be:

"Who would be in even farther over their head as the 2nd lefty than Neal Cotts?"

I would pretty much bank that Cotts' WHIP in September would be lower than Logan's. Logan pitching meaningful innings in a pennant race? :puking:

What in God's name did Logan show you earlier this season that would make you think differently? All I saw was a big mountain of suck.

Grzegorz
08-30-2006, 05:53 AM
Next year he needs to be watched closely early on and if he's still showing what he is now (i.e. nothing...) then he needs to be sent to Charlotte.

You can't make a definite judgement yet because he simply doesn't have a track record, we don't know who the real Cotts is...this year, or the 2005 version or somewhere in between.

Lip

Lip maybe you can answer this, or anyone else for that matter...

It this a matter of velocity, losing pitches like the curve ball and relying strictly on the fastball, or location?

I would not give up on this guy; he is still an unknown commodity with talent. I'd really be hard pressed to call him Cliff Politte. This off season priority number one is the starting staff.

Proud member of FONC...

woodsdavid
08-30-2006, 10:22 AM
Can we get Cotts out of there, hes been sickening to watch lately. Everytime I see him warming up in the Bullpen my stomach turns sour. Send him to Triple A let him get some innings down there, then bring him up in like a week or 2. Because I never feel safe or confident when Neil Cotts is on the mound.

06 Cotts = 05 Marte
The win killer.

jenn2080
08-30-2006, 10:42 AM
i remeber reading an article in the program about how neal and politte were best friends....Has polittle rubbed off on cotts? Is neal missing his buddy? proprably not just thought id add that bit of info about cotts.

What is this an Oprah show? because so and so is missing so and so this is why they are not playing up to par....Lame. They are men and they are in a profession that they get traded and wont be in the same place forever. I highly doubt their man love for some of their teammates is the reason they are not playing well.

jdm2662
08-30-2006, 10:59 AM
Crede and AJ were buddies with Rowand, and it sure hasn't affected their performance this season. Enough with the friends leaving the team. I've had many friends leave jobs I was at, and my performance never decreased because I "missed" them.

Madvora
08-30-2006, 11:06 AM
In a short series like the ALDS games, we most likely wouldn't need Cotts and Riske. Garcia and Vazquez would most likely be moved to the pen. I'm hoping we make it there though because this last month is when we are going to need guys like this. Everyone must contribute to this season.

If Cotts continues to fail then, I'm looking forward to a minor leaguer taking his place.

NoShoesJoe
08-30-2006, 11:07 AM
I would pretty much bank that Cotts' WHIP in September would be lower than Logan's. Logan pitching meaningful innings in a pennant race?

Agree, but there is a precedent in the name of Bobby Jenks. I'm not comparing the two, as they are incomparable, but Jenks was somewhat of an unknown quantity too, remember? But now is not the time to experiment. The Cotts situation needs to be addressed, and there are no obvious answers. I'm certain it's not Logan, but it doesn't seem to be Cotts either.

Frater Perdurabo
08-30-2006, 11:24 AM
In a short series like the ALDS games, we most likely wouldn't need Cotts and Riske. Garcia and Vazquez would most likely be moved to the pen. I'm hoping we make it there though because this last month is when we are going to need guys like this. Everyone must contribute to this season.

If I were managing the Sox in the playoffs, Cotts and Riske both would not see the mound unless the game was a complete blowout or if it went deep into extra innings.

Vazquez probably is the best candidate to move to the pen for the playoffs; Garcia usually is shaky in the first inning before settling down. Therefore, he's not a good match for a bullpen role. Vazquez starts out very strong before imploding when he faces batters for the third time.

McCarthy and Vazquez give the Sox two guys who can pitch 3-5 innings of scoreless relief if necessary. Then, with Thornton, MacDougal and Jenks, the Sox have the ability to close out games beginning in the fifth or even the fourth inning if necessary without having to rely on Cotts. Let's hope Ozzie doesn't stubbornly continue to waste away games by using Cotts in situations other than garbage time.

Tragg
08-30-2006, 11:30 AM
Sign Jack Haley and put him on the roster. He's a professional best-friend, with a few titles under his belt. He should do the trick for Contreras, Cotts and maybe Iguchi (lost since his friend Shingo left).

CaptainBallz
08-30-2006, 11:40 AM
Sign Jack Haley and put him on the roster. He's a professional best-friend, with a few titles under his belt. He should do the trick for Contreras, Cotts and maybe Iguchi (lost since his friend Shingo left).

This might be cheaper...

http://www.daddystoyshop.com/Toys_for_Girls/Cloth_dolls/baseball2.jpg

Cotts can name his Cliffy, Iguchi can name his Lil Shingo, and the rest of the gang can name theirs Widgey...No more frowny faces for our boys in black. Let the good times roll.

Ol' No. 2
08-30-2006, 11:45 AM
If I were managing the Sox in the playoffs, Cotts and Riske both would not see the mound unless the game was a complete blowout or if it went deep into extra innings.

Vazquez probably is the best candidate to move to the pen for the playoffs; Garcia usually is shaky in the first inning before settling down. Therefore, he's not a good match for a bullpen role. Vazquez starts out very strong before imploding when he faces batters for the third time.

McCarthy and Vazquez give the Sox two guys who can pitch 3-5 innings of scoreless relief if necessary. Then, with Thornton, MacDougal and Jenks, the Sox have the ability to close out games beginning in the fifth or even the fourth inning if necessary without having to rely on Cotts. Let's hope Ozzie doesn't stubbornly continue to waste away games by using Cotts in situations other than garbage time.I think you can make a good case for keeping Vazquez in the playoff rotation, despite the fact he seems to struggle the third time through the order. Wouldn't you rather have 5 solid innings than 7 mediocre ones? With McCarthy and another starter in the BP and plenty of days off in post-season, only lasting 5 innings is not really a big problem.

I'm not so sure you can translate Garcia's tendency to be shaky in the first inning to working out of the pen. The devil is in the details. Is he having trouble getting the feel of his pitches, or is the problem mental? If it's the latter, working out of the pen where he doesn't have so much time to think about it might actually be better. He's definately not the guy you want to bring in with men on base, though. I'm pretty sure I could steal second base off him. With a cast on one leg. Dragging a piano.

ondafarm
08-30-2006, 11:54 AM
I know that Cotts has been bad, but Boone Logan? Come on, people. If Boone Logan is the answer, then the question must be:

"Who would be in even farther over their head as the 2nd lefty than Neal Cotts?"

I would pretty much bank that Cotts' WHIP in September would be lower than Logan's. Logan pitching meaningful innings in a pennant race? :puking:

What in God's name did Logan show you earlier this season that would make you think differently? All I saw was a big mountain of suck.

I saw a kid who's head was spinning and needed a bit more seasoning. He had the stuff, he just needed more confidence and to be more intelligent. One does not throw a get me over pitch to Travis Hafner.

CaptainBallz
08-30-2006, 11:57 AM
I think you can make a good case for keeping Vazquez in the playoff rotation, despite the fact he seems to struggle the third time through the order. Wouldn't you rather have 5 solid innings than 7 mediocre ones? With McCarthy and another starter in the BP and plenty of days off in post-season, only lasting 5 innings is not really a big problem.

I'm not so sure you can translate Garcia's tendency to be shaky in the first inning to working out of the pen. The devil is in the details. Is he having trouble getting the feel of his pitches, or is the problem mental? If it's the latter, working out of the pen where he doesn't have so much time to think about it might actually be better. He's definately not the guy you want to bring in with men on base, though. I'm pretty sure I could steal second base off him. With a cast on one leg. Dragging a piano.

Come playoff time, there is no good reason to keep Vazquez in the starting rotation.

Chicken Dinner
08-30-2006, 12:03 PM
I hope Ozzie learned something last night. Never bring Cotts AND Riske back to back in the same game.

ajismyhero
08-30-2006, 12:13 PM
This may have been addressed somewhere else, but what happened to Sean Tracey? What's he been doing in the farm lately?

Lip Man 1
08-30-2006, 12:16 PM
It's not that Cotts velocity is down it's that his location is off, he's leaving to many pitches up in the strike zone and when you do that big league hitters will eventually hammer them. It doesn't matter how hard you throw.

Lip

Jerko
08-30-2006, 01:01 PM
I hope Ozzie learned something last night. Never bring Cotts AND Riske back to back in the same game.

He SHOULD have learned that against Minny a few days back.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-30-2006, 01:26 PM
I don't know about that, but I don't want to see Cotts anywhere on the playoff roster. Add Owens and drop Cotts with Javy moving to the pen.

Put Garcia in the bullpen. You can't depend on him anymore. He's a sure bet to give up some running early in the game. At least Vazquez has a chance to give you five good innings. (And five innings only, please. Pull him before he goes out for the sixth.)

Foulke You
08-30-2006, 01:36 PM
It's not that Cotts velocity is down it's that his location is off, he's leaving to many pitches up in the strike zone and when you do that big league hitters will eventually hammer them. It doesn't matter how hard you throw.

Lip
I think that missing 5 mph on his fastball is having more of an effect on Cotts than you think, Lip. Last year, he had the luxury of being able to miss his spots here and there and still have the velocity to blow it by the hitter. You can afford to make a mistake here or there when you are throwing 96mph. However, when you are at 90-91mph, you need to hit your spots exactly. This year, that hasn't been the case. Cotts has allowed 9 HRs (compared to 1HR all last year) and 57 hits (compared to 38 all of last year). The hitters are catching up to his stuff and Cotts better either make an adjustment on his location or he needs to find that extra 5 mph on his fastball.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-30-2006, 01:44 PM
I think that missing 5 mph on his fastball is having more of an effect on Cotts than you think, Lip. Last year, he had the luxury of being able to miss his spots here and there and still have the velocity to blow it by the hitter. You can afford to make a mistake here or there when you are throwing 96mph. However, when you are at 90-91mph, you need to hit your spots exactly. This year, that hasn't been the case. Cotts has allowed 9 HRs (compared to 1HR all last year) and 57 hits (compared to 38 all of last year). The hitters are catching up to his stuff and Cotts better either make an adjustment on his location or he needs to find that extra 5 mph on his fastball.

To that point, Cotts never has been a pitcher that really hit his spots and who relied on control. He relies on a live arm that blows it past hitters. When he can't do that, he's in trouble.

Ol' No. 2
08-30-2006, 02:47 PM
I think that missing 5 mph on his fastball is having more of an effect on Cotts than you think, Lip. Last year, he had the luxury of being able to miss his spots here and there and still have the velocity to blow it by the hitter. You can afford to make a mistake here or there when you are throwing 96mph. However, when you are at 90-91mph, you need to hit your spots exactly. This year, that hasn't been the case. Cotts has allowed 9 HRs (compared to 1HR all last year) and 57 hits (compared to 38 all of last year). The hitters are catching up to his stuff and Cotts better either make an adjustment on his location or he needs to find that extra 5 mph on his fastball.Cotts NEVER threw 96 mph. The low 90's was his top end.

maurice
08-30-2006, 02:52 PM
Cotts FB was and is about 91 MPH.

alohafri
08-30-2006, 02:53 PM
Cotts followed by Riske = Dumb and Dumber

hawkjt
08-30-2006, 03:04 PM
I agree that Cotts fastball was always around 91-92 even at his best. As hawk always said it was his delivery that gave him that extra foot on his fastball.

That is why I am baffled with his problems. Location is the only logical reason but maybe opposing players have gotten use to his delivery? With vidieo study ect.

Corlose 15
08-30-2006, 04:44 PM
I know that Cotts has been bad, but Boone Logan? Come on, people. If Boone Logan is the answer, then the question must be:

"Who would be in even farther over their head as the 2nd lefty than Neal Cotts?"

I would pretty much bank that Cotts' WHIP in September would be lower than Logan's. Logan pitching meaningful innings in a pennant race? :puking:

What in God's name did Logan show you earlier this season that would make you think differently? All I saw was a big mountain of suck.


THANK YOU! Ugh, I don't know where all this Boone Logan love is coming from but GMAB. Also Cotts haters I have two things to say. First, you don't DFA, talented, cheap, 26 year old left handers and secondly its NEAL.

Corlose 15
08-30-2006, 04:48 PM
I saw a kid who's head was spinning and needed a bit more seasoning. He had the stuff, he just needed more confidence and to be more intelligent. One does not throw a get me over pitch to Travis Hafner.

So would the middle of a pennant race be the best place for him to get that seasoning?

Lip Man 1
08-30-2006, 04:59 PM
Gary Peters in his WSI interview said the worst thing a team could do to a youngster is stick him in the middle of a pennant race and expect them to perform.

Lip

Foulke You
09-01-2006, 02:20 PM
Cotts NEVER threw 96 mph. The low 90's was his top end.
I think you're wrong here #2. Cotts definitely threw harder than 90-91 last year. It was in the mid 90s range. 94-96 is what he averaged if my memory serves. I will go into my tape archive from last year and check it out. I'm not sure how to do a screen grab from my VCR so you'll have to take my word for it. I promise I'll eat crow if I'm wrong about this.:cool:

The Immigrant
09-01-2006, 02:30 PM
Maybe the radar gun was juiced, but when Cotts got his two strikeouts in Game 1 of the WS I could have sworn he was in the mid-90's.

southside rocks
09-01-2006, 02:32 PM
Gary Peters in his WSI interview said the worst thing a team could do to a youngster is stick him in the middle of a pennant race and expect them to perform.

Lip

Gary Peters also pitched in a time before the extreme specialization of the bullpen. In Peters' day, a reliever came in and finished out a game when the starter left. There weren't middle relievers, setup men, and closers. A reliever like Cotts will often pitch less than one inning per outing. The pressure is a bit different in that situation than it was on a young reliever in 1967, who might be brought on in the 6th and needed to pitch through the 9th.

Player development is also different today than it was 40 years ago. Young pitchers today have had pressure put on them from very early ages, usually, even before they get to the big leagues. Not saying that's good or right, but it's certainly a change from Peters' time.

Sticking youngsters in the middle of a pennant race and expecting them to perform is exactly what the Sox did last year to Neal Cotts, and to Bobby Jenks. Both pitchers came through brilliantly.

Neal Cotts is in a slump. He'll get through it, and he'll be a better pitcher for learning how to get through it.

DaleJRFan
09-01-2006, 02:33 PM
I agree with Lip, I NEVER saw Cotts throw a pitch harder than 93 - ever, not 2004, not 2005, and not this season. Most of his outings last year, he was in the 89-91 range and would occationally pop one in there at 92-93. Same thing goes for this season.

Lip Man 1
09-01-2006, 02:55 PM
Southside:

For every kid who performed in the heat of a race there are three or four who didn't.

I'd rather not have the season depend on someone who's never been there before.

That's just my own personal philosophy.

PLUS you're forgetting about the most important person in this whole scenario, the rookie himself.

Careers have been ruined by kids forced into roles they weren't ready for. I'm not just talking physically but mentally. To a certain extent that's what I took out of Gary's comment.

Another point Gary made which also isn't true today to baseball's detrement is that kids are being rushed to the majors with absolutely no friggin' idea of what it takes or how to do their job.

Guys like Peters and Horlen spent years in the minor leagues actually learning how to pitch.

By the way Cotts wasn't a rookie in 2005.

Lip

102605
09-01-2006, 03:19 PM
Maybe he should be sent down the AAA for their playoff run :smile:.

Get some quality pitching time in. This is said half jokingly.