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CHIsoxNation
08-29-2006, 10:41 AM
This is a great article with a bunch of facts that I'm sure a lot of us didn't realize about Dye. Ladewski of the Daily Southtown lists 10 things the national media should know about JD.

link (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/ladewski/x29-lad1.htm)



8. In fact, Dye has been one of the most productive outfielders in the last 10 years.
Quick name the only two outfielders who've totaled at least 215 home runs and 750 RBI since the 1997 season. Manny Ramirez, you say? Very well done. Who's the other? Try Dye

PalehosePlanet
08-29-2006, 10:48 AM
Good article but one thing bothered me: Give me a break on the plus-minus crap, both Dye and Jeter are very good fielders.

mjmcend
08-29-2006, 12:00 PM
Good article but one thing bothered me: Give me a break on the plus-minus crap, both Dye and Jeter are very good fielders.

Jeter is an awful fielder. Don't let ESPN tell you otherwise.

100 Year Itch
08-29-2006, 12:03 PM
Barring a complete meltdown, I think Dye is a lock for the MVP.

It's no secret that MLB has experienced a significant decline in African-American players and Dye, considering the image he portrays, would represent the perfect MLB spokesman/figure/representative to reach out to young, black athletes.

MadetoOrta
08-29-2006, 12:27 PM
Barring a complete meltdown, I think Dye is a lock for the MVP.

It's no secret that MLB has experienced a significant decline in African-American players and Dye, considering the image he portrays, would represent the perfect MLB spokesman/figure/representative to reach out to young, black athletes.

As if that matters to the mopes on the east coast and the East Coast Sports Promotional Network. They could care less. Unless the Sox roar through September and win the Division, JD's coming in 2d or 3d.

Gregory Pratt
08-29-2006, 01:04 PM
Jeter is an awful fielder. Don't let ESPN tell you otherwise.

Jeter is not an awful fielder, sorry. I despise the Beasts of the East as much as anyone, but Jeter is one of the best players of our lifetime. Period.

His range is still good and his arm still strong. He's not as good as Uribe, but nobody else is.

chisoxfanatic
08-29-2006, 01:10 PM
As if that matters to the mopes on the east coast and the East Coast Sports Promotional Network. They could care less. Unless the Sox roar through September and win the Division, JD's coming in 2d or 3d.

To be honest with you, I was thinking that the only one to even rival JD would be Papi; and, with the way the Red Sox have been really plummeting lately, I would think his name is dropping from the list. JD seems to me like the obvious candidate here at this time.

BainesHOF
08-29-2006, 01:12 PM
Jeter is a heck of a ballplayer, one of the best for a variety of reasons, but his fielding is limited. He's good at what he gets to, but his range is pretty limited. He's not even in the team picture of quality fielding shortstops.

CHIsoxNation
08-29-2006, 01:15 PM
To be honest with you, I was thinking that the only one to even rival JD would be Papi; and, with the way the Red Sox have been really plummeting lately, I would think his name is dropping from the list. JD seems to me like the obvious candidate here at this time.

I agree. It's obviously too early to tell at this point. But if things keep going like they are and the White Sox can reach the playoffs, I think Dye has to be considered the front runner.

Like the article states, NY is already loaded and showed they were able to play just fine when Jeter was missing for a little bit. I think the absence of Dye in the middle of the lineup as well as RF for 1-2 weeks could really have a negative impact on this team. Thus proving how valuable Dye really is to this team.

IlliniSox4Life
08-29-2006, 01:28 PM
I found this interesting:


7. Dye is a player, not a whiner or complainer.
In the 2003 ALDS, apparently of sound mind, A's manager Ken Macha lifted Dye in favor of career hack Adam Melhuse in the late innings. Mel Whose? But ask him about the snub three years later, and Dye laughs it off as no big deal.



If for no other reason then the name Adam Melhuse popped out at me. In the 8th inning last night, Big Frank was lifted for Melhuse, and Melhuse hit one out.

Fake Chet Lemon
08-29-2006, 02:02 PM
Barring a complete meltdown, I think Dye is a lock for the MVP.

It's no secret that MLB has experienced a significant decline in African-American players and Dye, considering the image he portrays, would represent the perfect MLB spokesman/figure/representative to reach out to young, black athletes.


Too bad none of that has anything to do with who the Most Valuable Player is and it's voting.

ChiSoxLifer
08-29-2006, 02:23 PM
As if that matters to the mopes on the east coast and the East Coast Sports Promotional Network. They could care less. Unless the Sox roar through September and win the Division, JD's coming in 2d or 3d.

For every east coast mope there's plenty of journalists west of the east coast who just might be anti-Yanks/BoSox. I wouldn't be surprised if JD wins the MVP, especially if the White Sox make the playoffs.

Norberto7
08-29-2006, 02:23 PM
Why are very few people mentioning Morneau?

Morneau: .319/32/110
Dye: .326/38/102

Not a big enough difference to say Dye is a "lock". Plus Dye has more power surrounding him. And even though his team is not contending....

Hafner: .307/39/113

Impressive trio for the AL Central.

ondafarm
08-29-2006, 02:50 PM
Jeter is not an awful fielder, sorry. I despise the Beasts of the East as much as anyone, but Jeter is one of the best players of our lifetime. Period.

His range is still good and his arm still strong. He's not as good as Uribe, but nobody else is.

You are suffering ESPN delusions, sir.

Jeter has played 150 more innings than Uribe and has just 17 more putouts. What's more Uribe is not the tops at put outs or assists.

Jeter's gold gloves are due to his playing for the Yankees, nothing else.

Huisj
08-29-2006, 03:07 PM
You are suffering ESPN delusions, sir.

Jeter has played 150 more innings than Uribe and has just 17 more putouts. What's more Uribe is not the tops at put outs or assists.

Jeter's gold gloves are due to his playing for the Yankees, nothing else.

I've often wondered how much a pitching staff can affect those stats. Say a guy played for a team of flyball pitchers, then the infielders might not have as many assists if there aren't as many grounders hit. Or say a pitching staff is a bigtime strikeout staff, then all of the fielders would get to fewer balls. Or say the starts lean heavily toward being right handed or left handed, then that might affect how many righties or lefties bat against them, thus making the spread of balls hit change.

batmanZoSo
08-29-2006, 03:10 PM
Jeter is an awful fielder. Don't let ESPN tell you otherwise.

Dye is a superior fielder. Only Ichiro is clearly better than Dye in right. I can think of several shortstops that eclipse Jeter.

mccombe_35
08-29-2006, 04:17 PM
8. In fact, Dye has been one of the most productive outfielders in the last 10 years.
Quick name the only two outfielders who've totaled at least 215 home runs and 750 RBI since the 1997 season. Manny Ramirez, you say? Very well done. Who's the other? Try Dye
----
??

Is that even accurate? I didn't check the numbers but Bonds? Vlad? Edmonds? L Gonzalez? A Jones? Burnitz????

Mr. White Sox
08-29-2006, 04:42 PM
Number 8 is pretty stupid. In fact, it's hilariously incorrect. You can find anything when you doctor stats, and even then you'd be wrong:

Since 1997:
Bonds: 391 HR, 915 RBI
Vlad: 332 HR, 1039 RBI
Edmonds: 284 HR, 849 RBI
L. Gonzalez: 255 HR, 883 RBI
Andruw: 326 HR, 984 RBI
Burnitz: 290 HR, 886 RBI

Whoops.

Maybe he meant AL OF's? In which case, Vlad wouldn't count because of Montreal. Who knows, though.

Magglio Ordonez: 212 HR, 883 RBI
There's an AL OF that will surely reach 215 HR by the end of the year.

"Doctoring" stats to prove a point is wrong, kids.

CHIsoxNation
08-29-2006, 04:49 PM
8. In fact, Dye has been one of the most productive outfielders in the last 10 years.
Quick name the only two outfielders who've totaled at least 215 home runs and 750 RBI since the 1997 season. Manny Ramirez, you say? Very well done. Who's the other? Try Dye
----
??

Is that even accurate? I didn't check the numbers but Bonds? Vlad? Edmonds? L Gonzalez? A Jones? Burnitz????

I thought the same thing. The only thing I could think of is if he was only counting the AL. Either way, it's pretty misleading.

WhiteSox1983
08-29-2006, 05:07 PM
If twins make playoffs its a fifty fifty split between jeter and morneau.... but if sox make playoffs then its gotta be dye. I believe Jeter is a good player, but he is built up way too much.

Chisox003
08-29-2006, 05:12 PM
If twins make playoffs its a fifty fifty split between jeter and morneau.... but if sox make playoffs then its gotta be dye. I believe Jeter is a good player, but he is built up way too much.
Please explain how if the Sox make the playoffs, it's only Dye, but if the Twins make it Morneau has to split. :?:

Their numbers are nearly identical...

ChiSoxLifer
08-30-2006, 06:49 PM
I thought the same thing. The only thing I could think of is if he was only counting the AL. Either way, it's pretty misleading.

Well of course he's referring to AL outfielders. He is making a case for Jermaine to be AL MVP, not MLB MVP.