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woodsdavid
08-28-2006, 06:23 PM
So at Sunday's game, Silva drills AJ in the ass with a pitch -- looked like a stinger even from sec.542.
And a couple innings later he knocks one out of the park. OK, revenge is sweet, but why no retaliation to that plunking?
And why the plunking in the first place? So he flipped his bat Friday. No more obnoxious than lots of other plays.
Doesn't make sense.

HotelWhiteSox
08-28-2006, 06:28 PM
After the game yesterday AJ said he knew it was coming, I think he said Gardenhire told him. I think it was for the bat flip

viagracat
08-28-2006, 06:28 PM
Flipping your bat is big-time gamesmanship, and that's what AJ does best. He and everyone else on the Sox knew he was going to get drilled. It's the way the game is played. So as long as the Twins didn't throw at Pierzynski's head; the plunking was considered just part of the game. I think Ozzie and AJ would've been surprised had it NOT happened.

But AJ hit a homer later and again flipped the bat in defiance. Gotta love it. :smile:

MDF3530
08-28-2006, 06:30 PM
One thing I have noticed is people forgetting Hunter doing the Ickey Shuffle the other night. Also, Hawk & Farmio need to realize there are other ways to retaliate (going into second spikes up, railroading the catcher, etc.).

chaerulez
08-28-2006, 06:36 PM
I believe Konerko said there was no need to hit anyone back, that the homer was the best way to get back. I agree, AJ got plunked for showing up the Twins for the bat flip and it was done with at that point. This isn't a case of Padilla where he's A) hitting people with an unknown reason B) Doing it twice in a game.

MarySwiss
08-28-2006, 06:55 PM
Sorry, but I have a big problem with this. So it's okay that the Twins plunked AJ because they let it be known they were going to because they took exception to AJ's bat flip? And the Sox said, "Oh, sure. Why not? Go right ahead."

WHAT!?!

So, is that how it works now? Is this official? Damn, I hope so because I think the Sox have a ****load of bills to pay and it's nice to think that they can just tell a team that they will be plunking so-and-so but it's okay because blah-blah-blah. And the umpires will just look away. Sweet!

jenmcm76
08-28-2006, 06:56 PM
Only one thought entered my brain when I saw him get plunked...
AJ got hit in the Rearzinski.:tongue:

gobears1987
08-28-2006, 06:59 PM
The Sox need to get revenge. Remember against the Scrubs last year when Freddy hit DLee after Iguchi got hit? That's what we need our pitchers to do. We should've had Buehrle have a slider slip and hit Torii in the face. Maybe it would put him on the 15 day DL like that time he hit Hafner last year.

StockdaleForVeep
08-28-2006, 07:10 PM
I thought we were done with all this beaning player\retaliation crap

I would take runs over retaliation hitting any day

JB98
08-28-2006, 07:22 PM
The first priority yesterday was winning the game. We absolutely HAD TO WIN THAT GAME. We couldn't afford to give away free baserunners. I wondered in the ninth inning if we'd hit Hunter with two outs and nobody on and a five-run lead, but then Morneau doubled, and the point was moot. MacDougal went ahead and struck out Hunter and White and ended the game.

I'm no pacifist by any means. Many times I've posted on WSI stating that we needed to plunk an opposing hitter. There are times to do that. Yesterday was not one of those times.

Blueprint1
08-28-2006, 07:34 PM
The first priority yesterday was winning the game. We absolutely HAD TO WIN THAT GAME. We couldn't afford to give away free baserunners. I wondered in the ninth inning if we'd hit Hunter with two outs and nobody on and a five-run lead, but then Morneau doubled, and the point was moot. MacDougal went ahead and struck out Hunter and White and ended the game.

I'm no pacifist by any means. Many times I've posted on WSI stating that we needed to plunk an opposing hitter. There are times to do that. Yesterday was not one of those times.

You are correct on this one. We needed to win that game really bad yesterday. I didn't want to see one extra baserunner for the twins I am glad we didn't hit anyone.

Huisj
08-28-2006, 07:36 PM
Sorry, but I have a big problem with this. So it's okay that the Twins plunked AJ because they let it be known they were going to because they took exception to AJ's bat flip? And the Sox said, "Oh, sure. Why not? Go right ahead."



When I read about this, my first thought was how much everyone the world over would be chirping about Guillen if it had been him who said he was going to hit someone instead of Gardenhire. It would bring on a whole 'nother wave of crazy Guillen stories again.

My other thought was that the Sox should have gone after someone else first before AJ got hit. If they threw at Minnesota first, maybe warnings would get issued, and it'd put the Twins in the stupid position the Sox have been in time and time again when they get hit first and then can't retaliate without penalty.

Myrtle72
08-28-2006, 07:56 PM
For anyone who is interested, or who hasn't seen it yet...

Here is an article about the incident:

http://www.startribune.com/150/story/639086.html

I admit, I was a little dissapointed that our pitchers did not smack a Twin with a pitch; however, I think it's probably best that they didn't. The homerun was by far a better retaliation and you guys are right, we REALLY needed this win, not an extra baserunner.

slobes
08-28-2006, 08:07 PM
The first priority yesterday was winning the game. We absolutely HAD TO WIN THAT GAME. We couldn't afford to give away free baserunners. I wondered in the ninth inning if we'd hit Hunter with two outs and nobody on and a five-run lead, but then Morneau doubled, and the point was moot. MacDougal went ahead and struck out Hunter and White and ended the game.

I'm no pacifist by any means. Many times I've posted on WSI stating that we needed to plunk an opposing hitter. There are times to do that. Yesterday was not one of those times.

Completely agreed. The last thing we need is to plunk a guy with 2 outs and the bases empty, only to come around on a double in the gap to score a run in a close, very meaningful game.

southside rocks
08-28-2006, 08:33 PM
This was personal, directed not at the Sox but at AJ. He knew that, everybody knew that. It wasn't a case of a pitcher like Padilla wanting to intimidate or show up the team; it was for AJ because he flipped his bat after his homer on Friday night, and then he yelled at the Twinkies dugout after Dye's homer on Saturday night.

I was surprised too, initially, that there was no retaliation; but apparently there is a complex code of beanball etiquette involved here. Who knew.

The homerun on the next at-bat was awesome. And of course, he flipped his bat at the Twinkies dugout on that one, too, so I guess AJ won that one!

BainesHOF
08-28-2006, 08:45 PM
I'm tired of not retaliating. I don't need to look up the official stats to know we've been hit way more times than we've hit this season. Not only have our pitchers allowed it to be open season on our hitters this year, but they've also allowed opponents to dig in against us because by now it must be known around the league that we haven't and won't retaliate to any threatening degree. I have a phrase for this and it sure the heck ain't "Ozzie ball."

MarySwiss
08-28-2006, 09:01 PM
This was personal, directed not at the Sox but at AJ. He knew that, everybody knew that. It wasn't a case of a pitcher like Padilla wanting to intimidate or show up the team; it was for AJ because he flipped his bat after his homer on Friday night, and then he yelled at the Twinkies dugout after Dye's homer on Saturday night.

I was surprised too, initially, that there was no retaliation; but apparently there is a complex code of beanball etiquette involved here. Who knew.

The homerun on the next at-bat was awesome. And of course, he flipped his bat at the Twinkies dugout on that one, too, so I guess AJ won that one!

I guess I didn't make myself clear. So now I will. I WANT TO KNOW WHEN EXACTLY IT BECAME OKAY TO PLUNK SOMEONE AS LONG AS YOU TOLD THEM AHEAD OF TIME YOU WERE GOING TO DO SO! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?

That, IMO, is bull****. And I cannot believe that Sox fans are justifying it because AJ hit a home run at the next at-bat. That home run, although I loved it, is beside the point.

Myrtle72
08-28-2006, 09:07 PM
That, IMO, is bull****. And I cannot believe that Sox fans are justifying it because AJ hit a home run at the next at-bat. That home run, although I loved it, is beside the point.

Well... I don't exactly thing the home run justifies it, but I DO think that it was great comeback, WAY better than plunking a Twin. It shows that the Sox are better (and AJ, for that matter) and they don't need to deal with all that to prove their point.

But, I do agree with you that it's NOT okay to hit someone with a pitch just because it's expected. In fact, I think the whole situation/rivalry is a little childish, but it's also a part of baseball. And it's definitely a part of AJ. It's not going to go away anytime soon.

southside rocks
08-28-2006, 09:13 PM
I guess I didn't make myself clear. So now I will. I WANT TO KNOW WHEN EXACTLY IT BECAME OKAY TO PLUNK SOMEONE AS LONG AS YOU TOLD THEM AHEAD OF TIME YOU WERE GOING TO DO SO! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?

That, IMO, is bull****. And I cannot believe that Sox fans are justifying it because AJ hit a home run at the next at-bat. That home run, although I loved it, is beside the point.
LOL! No, here is what I have gathered the distinction is -- and I am merely relating what I've garnered of beanball etiquette, not asserting that it's right, or wrong, or makes sense.

An UNPROVOKED beaning of a team's batter demands retaliation in kind. Period. That is what Ozzie ranted about when Padilla was plunking people.

A PROVOKED beaning is pretty much between the player who got beaned and the team or pitcher who beans him. He DID something to get hit. In AJ's case, he knew what he did and he accepted that they wouldn't take the diss he was giving them without a reaction.

AJ's options were to either charge the mound on Silva, or do exactly what he did -- make a play that in turn shows up the team/player that beaned him. He also could have gone hard into a base the next time out and taken out the shortstop or second baseman or catcher. But the retaliation has to come from him.

It's not that it's okay because they told him they were going to do it, but because it was PAYBACK from the Twins to AJ for his actions. Very unlike the Padilla matter.

In other words, even AJ admits that he had this one coming. :redneck

Myrtle72
08-28-2006, 09:18 PM
An UNPROVOKED beaning of a team's batter demands retaliation in kind. Period. That is what Ozzie ranted about when Padilla was plunking people.

A PROVOKED beaning is pretty much between the player who got beaned and the team or pitcher who beans him. He DID something to get hit. In AJ's case, he knew what he did and he accepted that they wouldn't take the diss he was giving them without a reaction.


Yeah, I think that makes perfect sense. And AJ still won.

MarySwiss
08-28-2006, 09:22 PM
Well... I don't exactly thing the home run justifies it, but I DO think that it was great comeback, WAY better than plunking a Twin. It shows that the Sox are better (and AJ, for that matter) and they don't need to deal with all that to prove their point.

But, I do agree with you that it's NOT okay to hit someone with a pitch just because it's expected. In fact, I think the whole situation/rivalry is a little childish, but it's also a part of baseball. And it's definitely a part of AJ. It's not going to go away anytime soon.

Myrtle72:
Yes, it was a great comeback. This time. But how many times have Sox players been plunked and there was no "great comeback"? My point is this: If it's all right for one of our players to be hit because the other team tells us that's going to happen, then turnabout is fair play, and every team in the majors should be afforded the same luxury. But obviously, they are not. So why is a team that's playing the White Sox afforded it?

The entire concept is ridiculous. And I, for one, am getting pretty ****ing tired of seeing the White Sox players serving as test cases to determine what is and is not "a part of baseball."

BadBobbyJenks
08-28-2006, 09:24 PM
I could really do with out the why didnt we retaliate garbage after any sox player gets hit...Im pretty sure AJ watching his homer and flipping the bat was enough.

TheOldRoman
08-28-2006, 09:25 PM
After the game yesterday AJ said he knew it was coming, I think he said Gardenhire told him. I think it was for the bat flip
Are you ****ing kidding me?! That piece of **** Torrriiiiiii flips his bat after every homerun. Since he has done the bat flip more than once against us, I expect him to take a fastball to the head next time we face him.
And what about that little ****ing "moshpit" the Twins did at 2B after each win? Just for that, I would have drilled the first batter the next game.

This shows once again why Gardenhire is without a doubt the biggest whiner in sports. I hate that piece of ****. And that is the way the Twins were brought up. They talk trash about the Sox non-stop, all while whining "we don't care about the Sox, but they always talk crap about us and disrespect us."

MarySwiss
08-28-2006, 09:26 PM
LOL! No, here is what I have gathered the distinction is -- and I am merely relating what I've garnered of beanball etiquette, not asserting that it's right, or wrong, or makes sense.

An UNPROVOKED beaning of a team's batter demands retaliation in kind. Period. That is what Ozzie ranted about when Padilla was plunking people.

A PROVOKED beaning is pretty much between the player who got beaned and the team or pitcher who beans him. He DID something to get hit. In AJ's case, he knew what he did and he accepted that they wouldn't take the diss he was giving them without a reaction.

AJ's options were to either charge the mound on Silva, or do exactly what he did -- make a play that in turn shows up the team/player that beaned him. He also could have gone hard into a base the next time out and taken out the shortstop or second baseman or catcher. But the retaliation has to come from him.

It's not that it's okay because they told him they were going to do it, but because it was PAYBACK from the Twins to AJ for his actions. Very unlike the Padilla matter.

In other words, even AJ admits that he had this one coming. :redneck

I'd love to see a source for this "beanball etiquette."

southside rocks
08-28-2006, 09:27 PM
I could really do with out the why didnt we retaliate garbage after any sox player gets hit...Im pretty sure AJ watching his homer and flipping the bat was enough.
I'm pretty sure that AJ's homer with bat flip was WAY more annoying to the Twinkies than hitting Torii Hunter in the hip pocket with a baseball would have been. Leave it to AJ to really get under the skin of the opponents. He's so cool. :D:

FielderJones
08-28-2006, 09:27 PM
LOL! No, here is what I have gathered the distinction is -- and I am merely relating what I've garnered of beanball etiquette, not asserting that it's right, or wrong, or makes sense.

You do understand the difference between a beaning and a plunking, don't you? Beaning in a HBP where the target is the head. Plunking is anywhere else. There is no such thing as beanball ettiquette; intentionally aiming for the head is a severe breach of protocol these days.

southside rocks
08-28-2006, 09:28 PM
I'd love to see a source for this "beanball etiquette."
I think it's written in the Big Book of Testosterone. And my gender prevents me from having a copy. :tongue:

southside rocks
08-28-2006, 09:30 PM
You do understand the difference between a beaning and a plunking, don't you? Beaning in a HBP where the target is the head. Plunking is anywhere else. There is no such thing as beanball ettiquette; intentionally aiming for the head is a severe breach of protocol these days.
Yes. But since there really isn't much beaning anymore, I have seen the term start to be used for all HBP.

And what ever became of "chin music"?

MarySwiss
08-28-2006, 09:31 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?! That piece of **** Torrriiiiiii flips his bat after every homerun. Since he has done the bat flip more than once against us, I expect him to take a fastball to the head next time we face him.
And what about that little ****ing "moshpit" the Twins did at 2B after each win? Just for that, I would have drilled the first batter the next game.

This shows once again why Gardenhire is without a doubt the biggest whiner in sports. I hate that piece of ****. And that is the way the Twins were brought up. They talk trash about the Sox non-stop, all while whining "we don't care about the Sox, but they always talk crap about us and disrespect us."

Thank you, Old Roman! I cannot believe what I have been seeing in this thread. You are right; Hunter is the definition of smug little toad. And based on the apparent new 'rules," we can level Toriiii, as long as we tell the Twins we're going to do it. And he--like AJ--will stand up and take it. Suure he will. Wanna bet?

MarySwiss
08-28-2006, 09:39 PM
I think it's written in the Big Book of Testosterone. And my gender prevents me from having a copy. :tongue:

But not from quoting from it?

Sorry, I don't mean to discount what you are saying. But I really am tired of seeing my Sox players getting plunked time and again and not retaliating...and now to hear the Twins come right out and admit they plunked AJ and get off scot-free, well, that's just too much.

As a previous poster said, if this had been that pest Punto or someone and Ozzie had ordered him plunked, it would have been yet another instance of Ozzie being out of control. How was Gardenhire's reaction any different? And why would any Sox fan defend it?

digdagdug23
08-28-2006, 09:56 PM
Thank you, Old Roman! I cannot believe what I have been seeing in this thread. You are right; Hunter is the definition of smug little toad. And based on the apparent new 'rules," we can level Toriiii, as long as we tell the Twins we're going to do it. And he--like AJ--will stand up and take it. Suure he will. Wanna bet?

Seperated at birth? you be the judge............

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/184000/184080taCX_small.jpg http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:8kNxbsDYLwRv8M:http://www.adweek.com/aw/images/best_spots/best_spots_03/1013_bs12.gif

JB98
08-28-2006, 09:58 PM
But not from quoting from it?

Sorry, I don't mean to discount what you are saying. But I really am tired of seeing my Sox players getting plunked time and again and not retaliating...and now to hear the Twins come right out and admit they plunked AJ and get off scot-free, well, that's just too much.

As a previous poster said, if this had been that pest Punto or someone and Ozzie had ordered him plunked, it would have been yet another instance of Ozzie being out of control. How was Gardenhire's reaction any different? And why would any Sox fan defend it?

I'm not defending it. We can always retaliate later. If the last game of the season in the dome is meaningless, let's hit Torii right in the ribs. But we needed to win yesterday very badly. How would you feel if we drilled somebody, and that started a huge rally for the Twins and ultimately cost us the game? Let's make the playoffs first and settle scores later.

ws05champs
08-28-2006, 10:37 PM
Does anyone else have the feeling that AJ was a little bit proud of the fact that he annoyed the twinkies enough to provoke them into plunking him? After all how will he maintain his "Dennis the Menace" image if no one notices? Do the twinkies think that they have taught him a lesson or will AJ take every opportunity he can to get in their heads the next time we meet the twinkies? Stay tuned.

Nellie_Fox
08-29-2006, 12:09 AM
How about the little nose-tapping thing the Twins do after driving in a run? It's supposed to mean "smell those ribeyes (RBIs) cooking." You think that wouldn't have gotten people drilled thirty years ago?

Actually, I think a subtle retaliation the Sox did was have Podsednik stealing with a five-run lead in the 8th or 9th inning (I don't remember which.) Blyleven was going on and on about how you just don't do that at that point in the game, that it was rubbing it in, and if anybody had stolen on him with a big lead late in the game, they'd have gotten one in the ribs the next time up. I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly why they did it. This is not a time of year you want to risk suspensions for a beanball retaliation, but a message was sent.

southwstchi4life
08-29-2006, 12:32 AM
I agree with Buerhle should of retaliated after, BUT ill take his 1 run, 7-8 innings instead. I know Im stuck inbetween, BUT we needed the win more than the pride factor

Myrtle72
08-29-2006, 06:11 AM
Does anyone else have the feeling that AJ was a little bit proud of the fact that he annoyed the twinkies enough to provoke them into plunking him? After all how will he maintain his "Dennis the Menace" image if no one notices? Do the twinkies think that they have taught him a lesson or will AJ take every opportunity he can to get in their heads the next time we meet the twinkies? Stay tuned.
Haha, yes! I don't understand why people don't see this as a victory for AJ. Not only did he get what he wanted (stirring up the twinkies), but he also scored some runs while he was at it. I thought it was perfect, and we played it completely fair, THEY didn't. They're the ones who had to resort to hitting him because they didn't have the means to show him up in a true baseball fashion. AJ got the last laugh, he even flipped his bat AGAIN after he hit the home run. To me, I don't see why people feel like we didn't retailiate.

And hey, you don't know what Buehrle would have done had AJ NOT hit that home run....

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 09:27 AM
http://www.startribune.com/150/story/639086.html

Various Twins' players responses to AJ's "antics"

hawkjt
08-29-2006, 11:56 AM
I have no problem with the way this played out. AJ got in their heads and they admitted that. He got revenge with the homer, and we still have that bullet in our gun, hanging over them, when we go to Minny at the end of the year. They are going to expect retaliation but we can pick and choose the time. And of course the ultimate revenge is celebrating on the floor of the dome in late sept. That is a scene I am relishing so much. Win it at their place on Sat. Then come out on sunday and eliminate the twins ala the indians last year while resting our studs. Then maybe plunk Hunter in his last at bat as a twin, probably.

Now that is a dish best served cold.

MikeLove
08-29-2006, 02:19 PM
dude, this wasnt like the other beanballs this year. hit him right on the ass, put him on base. No big deal, i usually like go to after someone when we get hit but it barely even crossed my mind in this case. It's a non issue

TheOldRoman
08-29-2006, 06:13 PM
http://www.startribune.com/150/story/639086.html

Various Twins' players responses to AJ's "antics"
:rolleyes:
Just more of the Twins players taking a cue from Gardenhire and whining. It's OK when they do it, but sacrilege if you do it to them. I was really hoping the Sox did copied the Twins' moshpit bull**** at 2B after the win Sunday.

Bob G
08-29-2006, 06:20 PM
I was hoping MacDougal would let a 100mph fast ball "accidentally" slip out of his hand in the direction of Gardenhire....

MarySwiss
08-29-2006, 06:25 PM
This is kind of a schizo thread. The original poster asked--I think a legitimate question--about why there was no retaliation. Then other posters pointed out that the Sox knew that AJ would be plunked because the Twins TOLD him so, which made it okay. Then I said I thought that was insane.

I still think so.

I don't care about whether or not there was retaliation; what bothers me is the apparent double standard. Does anyone here really believe that if Ozzie went up to Jim Leyland and said, for example, "Hey, Jim! We're going to hit I-Roid because he's an annoying little showboating *******," Leyland (or the Tigers' fans) would say, "Well, okay. As long as you have a good reason." Yet the Sox org--and many fans here, appear to be doing just that.

We are obviously not in Kansas anymore.

miker
08-30-2006, 05:35 PM
I thought we were done with all this beaning player\retaliation crap

I would take runs over retaliation hitting any day
Scoring runs or giving them up?