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View Full Version : What would you have done with Iguchi's last AB on Saturday against the Twins?


Dice
08-28-2006, 02:11 PM
For those who don't remember here was the situation:
Bottom of the 11th and the Sox down 8-7 against the Twins.
1 out & Podsednik on first. Iguchi is up to bat and Jermaine Dye on deck.

Here was the outcome:
Iguchi grounds to a game ending double play. Sox loose.

Here what I would have done:
BUNT with Iguchi. Yes, it would have been 2 outs BUT you'd have a runner in scoring position AND you put our best hitter at the plate with the game on the line. You can't ask for anything better. I like Iguchi, but if I had a choice on who's gonna try and win me a game I'm going to bat with Dye.

What are your thought?

DaleJRFan
08-28-2006, 02:12 PM
Tell him to stand up there with the bat on his shoulder. Either walk or strike out.

eriqjaffe
08-28-2006, 02:14 PM
Personally, I would have had Iguchi hit a two-run homer to end the game.

In all seriousness, why not a hit & run? Try and have Iguchi poke one through the hold on the right side, get Pods to third so he could score on a sac fly. Even if the ball was played by an infielder, it would help eliminate the possibility of a double-play.

Sure, that could go awry - there's always the possibility of Iguchi not making contact and Pods being caught stealing, or Iguchi lining into a double-play, but I think it makes as much sense as bunting with one out.

StockdaleForVeep
08-28-2006, 02:18 PM
For those who don't remember here was the situation:
Bottom of the 11th and the Sox down 8-7 against the Twins.
1 out & Podsednik on first. Iguchi is up to bat and Jermaine Dye on deck.

Here was the outcome:
Iguchi grounds to a game ending double play. Sox loose.

Here what I would have done:
BUNT with Iguchi. Yes, it would have been 2 outs BUT you'd have a runner in scoring position AND you put our best hitter at the plate with the game on the line. You can't ask for anything better. I like Iguchi, but if I had a choice on who's gonna try and win me a game I'm going to bat with Dye.

What are your thought?

You never intentionally put 2 outs on the board just to move a runner into "POSSIBLE" scoring range

Iguchi has proven far beyond meaning he is a capable hitter

CHISOXFAN13
08-28-2006, 02:22 PM
You never intentionally put 2 outs on the board just to move a runner into "POSSIBLE" scoring range

Iguchi has proven far beyond meaning he is a capable hitter

Agreed. This is the same guy who had a three-run jack and grand slam in consecutive innings against Houston.

Madvora
08-28-2006, 02:22 PM
You never intentionally put 2 outs on the board just to move a runner into "POSSIBLE" scoring range

Iguchi has proven far beyond meaning he is a capable hitter
Totally agree.
That's not a "sacrifice" situation. You don't have Eddie Gadel coming up to the plate. Iguchi is on the team because he can hit. He was expected to hit in that situation.

the gooch
08-28-2006, 02:25 PM
I wouldnt take the bat out of Iguchi's hands.
I would rather give both Iguchi and Dye a chance to tie or win the game than give up Iguchi's out for Dye to get the only chance.
It just turned out bad for us this time. Enough people have complained about the over-managing by Ozzie. Let's go get our playoff position back tomorrow.

nebraskasox
08-28-2006, 02:29 PM
Personally, I would have had Iguchi hit a two-run homer to end the game.

In all seriousness, why not a hit & run? Try and have Iguchi poke one through the hold on the right side, get Pods to third so he could score on a sac fly. Even if the ball was played by an infielder, it would help eliminate the possibility of a double-play.

Sure, that could go awry - there's always the possibility of Iguchi not making contact and Pods being caught stealing, or Iguchi lining into a double-play, but I think it makes as much sense as bunting with one out.

Hit & run was my thinking too. The Twins seem to use that to stay out of DPs in critical situations. The one thing you don't want in this situation is the DP & that's what we got.

CaptainBallz
08-28-2006, 02:30 PM
For those who don't remember here was the situation:
Bottom of the 11th and the Sox down 8-7 against the Twins.
1 out & Podsednik on first. Iguchi is up to bat and Jermaine Dye on deck.

Here was the outcome:
Iguchi grounds to a game ending double play. Sox loose.

Here what I would have done:
BUNT with Iguchi. Yes, it would have been 2 outs BUT you'd have a runner in scoring position AND you put our best hitter at the plate with the game on the line. You can't ask for anything better. I like Iguchi, but if I had a choice on who's gonna try and win me a game I'm going to bat with Dye.

What are your thought?

There wasn't much made of this situation around here (mainly because there was sooo much more to complain about in that game), but it's a good after-the-fact question to bring up.
First off, Pods only put the wheels in gear once during the AB and Gooch fouled it off. Pods would've been in there w/ ease. Either way, the steal there was a risky move with PodsLite on the basepaths. But if you're not going to commit to the steal, then Gooch's #1 priority is to at least get Pods to 2nd and get MVP into the batter's box. Lightning does strike twice when it's named Jermaine Dye.
At that point it the AB, he already has a count on him and should've attempted to either A) bunt B) take the K and go back to the dugout. Instead, he did the only thing that the Sox couldn't afford and that was slapping at a pitch and hitting a grounder to short.
With all the talk about Mack in CF and Contreras looking like garbage, that IMHO was a very poorly planned and executed approach to a crucial game situation.

Verdict: Forget the steal and give Gooch two shots at the bunt. If he fails, only turn on the most foolish of pitches or else take strike 3 and get Dye up.

The Immigrant
08-28-2006, 02:31 PM
Call a hit and run or a straight steal. Pods had a great jump on strike two to Iguchi, which he fouled off.

Moses_Scurry
08-28-2006, 02:45 PM
I'd have him lean into one ala Rudy Stein.

skottyj242
08-28-2006, 02:47 PM
Ozzie: "Hey Gooch, this guy used to pitch you inside right? Well I want you to go in there and lean into one, here."

Gooch: "This isn't even my bat."

Ozzie: "Get in there."

Jerko
08-28-2006, 02:48 PM
Well, they pinch hit for gooch on Friday and it didn't work, so Saturday they let him swing away. I would have probably done the same thing.

BadBobbyJenks
08-28-2006, 02:55 PM
Id 2nd guess manage after the outcome and do the exact opposite...:rolleyes:

Dice
08-28-2006, 02:58 PM
You never intentionally put 2 outs on the board just to move a runner into "POSSIBLE" scoring range

Iguchi has proven far beyond meaning he is a capable hitter

Even if it means putting our best hitter at the plate? This is just my reasoning. If I'm going down I'm going down with my best hitter. My motto is 'Ride or Dye'.

BainesHOF
08-28-2006, 02:58 PM
Pods needed to be stealing or there needed to be a hit-and-run on every pitch.

Tekijawa
08-28-2006, 03:44 PM
I would have called "invisible man" on first thus eliminating the double play!

Ol' No. 2
08-28-2006, 04:01 PM
You never intentionally put 2 outs on the board just to move a runner into "POSSIBLE" scoring range

Iguchi has proven far beyond meaning he is a capable hitterAgreed. But I think I would have had Pods running even with two strikes. One of Iguchi's strengths (and the reason he's hitting #2) is his bat control. With Pods going and the 2B moving to cover second, you open a big hole on the right side. It's worth the risk of a strikeout-throwout double play.

hold2dibber
08-28-2006, 05:05 PM
Agreed. But I think I would have had Pods running even with two strikes. One of Iguchi's strengths (and the reason he's hitting #2) is his bat control. With Pods going and the 2B moving to cover second, you open a big hole on the right side. It's worth the risk of a strikeout-throwout double play.

I completely agree. One of the hallmarks of last year's team was that they always put pressure on the other team. That's the approach I would have liked to have seen at that point - put them on their heels, make something happen. If they end it on a strike him out-throw him out, you tip your cap to them for executing. Otherwise, they get out of the DP and get Dye a chance with a RISP.

Ol' No. 2
08-28-2006, 05:14 PM
I completely agree. One of the hallmarks of last year's team was that they always put pressure on the other team. That's the approach I would have liked to have seen at that point - put them on their heels, make something happen. If they end it on a strike him out-throw him out, you tip your cap to them for executing. Otherwise, they get out of the DP and get Dye a chance with a RISP.Did you get a good laugh at Hawk bloviating about how dumb it was for Pods to be running because they risk the strikeout-throwout DP, which would keep Dye from hitting? Two seconds later, Iguchi grounds into a DP.:rolleyes:

JB98
08-28-2006, 05:21 PM
If Iguchi had bunted, I might have walked out of the stadium in disgust. You don't give away an out like that in that situation. That said, I wish Pods would have been more aggressive about trying to steal the bag. He only went once during that entire sequence, and Tadahito fouled the pitch off.

kittle42
08-28-2006, 05:27 PM
Here was the outcome:
Iguchi grounds to a game ending double play. Sox loose.


What did they loosen, their pants?

Ol' No. 2
08-28-2006, 05:28 PM
What did they loosen, their pants?At least that would explain the way they played.

viagracat
08-28-2006, 06:30 PM
You never intentionally put 2 outs on the board just to move a runner into "POSSIBLE" scoring range

Iguchi has proven far beyond meaning he is a capable hitter

Exactly. I'll always take my chances with Gooch. It didn't work out that particular time. It happens.

slobes
08-28-2006, 06:33 PM
You never intentionally put 2 outs on the board just to move a runner into "POSSIBLE" scoring range

Iguchi has proven far beyond meaning he is a capable hitter

Exactly. You realize that your idea would have us make or break the game with Dye's AB, pretty much. While it may seem like a good idea, I'll only be in favor of it if Dye is batting over .500. If not, then I'll take my chance with both Iguchi and Dye batting.

hold2dibber
08-28-2006, 06:41 PM
Did you get a good laugh at Hawk bloviating about how dumb it was for Pods to be running because they risk the strikeout-throwout DP, which would keep Dye from hitting? Two seconds later, Iguchi grounds into a DP.:rolleyes:

I was at a party where there was no sound, but everyone I was with was begging for Pods to try to steal to get into scoring position and avoid the DP.

russ99
08-28-2006, 06:55 PM
If Iguchi had bunted, I might have walked out of the stadium in disgust. You don't give away an out like that in that situation. That said, I wish Pods would have been more aggressive about trying to steal the bag. He only went once during that entire sequence, and Tadahito fouled the pitch off.

Gee, did you notice all of the pickoff throws Eyre made?!? Pods had only a few real chances to run and as usual on his best jump, Iguchi fouls it off. With less than 2 strikes, no less. I would have Iguchi taken a lot more pitches and bunted Pods over if necessary.

I love Tadahito, but what ever happened to the idea of moving him down the order and finding someone (surely not Uribe - as Oz suggested) with a little more plate patience and speed?

You guys are all ripping Scott up and down for his drop in steals, but he's not always put in a position to succeed on the basepaths, plus there's a lot more pitcher (and pitchout) attention this year due to his success.

StockdaleForVeep
08-28-2006, 07:13 PM
Even if it means putting our best hitter at the plate? This is just my reasoning. If I'm going down I'm going down with my best hitter. My motto is 'Ride or Dye'.

Ok, so then u intentionally walk dye to konerko, you can get around dye if u desire it. I do not trust konerko in those situations, most times he flies out to centre with a disgusted look on his face. Iguchi is a contact hitter, he can go to all fields. Had he gone yard and won the game, would u be complaining that it shoulda been a sacrifice?
You also assume that dye or konerko would get a hit to win the game.

esbrechtel
08-28-2006, 08:17 PM
Gee, did you notice all of the pickoff throws Eyre made?!? Pods had only a few real chances to run and as usual on his best jump, Iguchi fouls it off.

exactly! the hit and run was on, however guch just missed one...it happens...i would have been more discusted if pods got picked off at first than if guch bunted...i would have had guch do just what he did...try and single to get dye up you know they werent going to walk him...there is no way

JB98
08-28-2006, 08:25 PM
Gee, did you notice all of the pickoff throws Eyre made?!? Pods had only a few real chances to run and as usual on his best jump, Iguchi fouls it off. With less than 2 strikes, no less. I would have Iguchi taken a lot more pitches and bunted Pods over if necessary.

I love Tadahito, but what ever happened to the idea of moving him down the order and finding someone (surely not Uribe - as Oz suggested) with a little more plate patience and speed?

You guys are all ripping Scott up and down for his drop in steals, but he's not always put in a position to succeed on the basepaths, plus there's a lot more pitcher (and pitchout) attention this year due to his success.

Oh, bull****. Teams threw over to first and pitched out against Podsednik constantly last year. That's not something new. Scott had 70 steals in his final season in Milwaukee. It wasn't like he came out of nowhere last year and started stealing bases, and this year the league adjusted. He was a known basestealer before the Sox ever acquired him.

Move Tadahito down in the lineup? LOL. That's almost as ridiculous as suggesting that we sacrifice bunt with one out.

BA: The Hitman
08-28-2006, 09:11 PM
There is no way in hell that iguchi should have been bunting in that situation.........Iguchi is a solid hitter, he's no scrub. Sure it would have been nice to have JD up there with a runner in scoring position, but I don't think you ever want to sacrifice with one out. This is Iguchi that was up to bat, not a national leauge pitcher. If they had bunted and it not worked out, everyone on this board would be calling for ozzie's head.

getonbckthr
08-28-2006, 11:45 PM
Have Pods steal second if successful they will walk Gooch to get the double play back into order, meaning your best hitter is up with the winning run on base.

StockdaleForVeep
08-29-2006, 05:43 AM
Why does everyone think that they would even pitch to dye in that situation?

wassagstdu
08-29-2006, 06:34 AM
They did the right thing, with the worst possible outcome. It happens.

.

Dice
08-29-2006, 08:30 AM
Ok, so then u intentionally walk dye to konerko, you can get around dye if u desire it. I do not trust konerko in those situations, most times he flies out to centre with a disgusted look on his face. Iguchi is a contact hitter, he can go to all fields. Had he gone yard and won the game, would u be complaining that it shoulda been a sacrifice?
You also assume that dye or konerko would get a hit to win the game.

You know, your the first post I found on this thread that made sense on why they shouldn't have bunted. I agree, they would have walked Dye and I wouldn't trust Konerko in that situation. BUT I'd put more faith in Konerko than of Iguchi.

NoNeckEra
08-29-2006, 09:42 AM
Pods needed to be stealing or there needed to be a hit-and-run on every pitch.
Agreed. This one's on Ozzie. Once there were two strikes, he needed to be off and running. Don't you think the twins were a little surprised Pods stayed put?

hawkjt
08-29-2006, 11:36 AM
lets face it- Tadahito is slumping. Last 15 games he is 12-62. That is under .200- I think he needs a rest. Put cintron at 2nd for a couple of days.

Tadahitos numbers are very similar to last years so he is having a solid year overall. But right now he is guessing and groping at the plate and striking out a lot.

As for the situation the other nite- it happens. Thats baseball. Iguchi is a clutch performer historically- gotta just let him hit.

soxinem1
08-29-2006, 10:53 PM
You never intentionally put 2 outs on the board just to move a runner into "POSSIBLE" scoring range

Iguchi has proven far beyond meaning he is a capable hitter

I'll be honest, I was thinking about a running play, but we haven't been running and have not been hit and running.

Then if Pods gets thrown out, then people will bitch about 'Why did Ozzie send him when he hasn't stole anything in weeks?' Especially when Iguchi would have gotten a hit on the next pitch. You know it always happens that way.

It's easy to be an armchair manager after the fact. It happened as it happened. If the Sox play better defense in that game, it probably goes only nine innings.

FedEx227
08-29-2006, 11:33 PM
They did the right thing, with the worst possible outcome. It happens.

.

Exactly. If you have Pods steal and hes caught you've screwed yourself. If you have a hit and run and it turns into a double play you've again screwed yourself and looked stupid in the process.

What he did was fine, Guch is a proven hitter and that stuff happens, Ozzie played the percentages as he should do in that situation.

voodoochile
08-30-2006, 09:42 PM
I'd have said, Hey Gooch, go jack a game winning 2-run HR, kind of like that big one you're going to hit next Wednesday...:cool: