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View Full Version : F. Thomas takes shot at Sox fans


caulfield12
08-27-2006, 10:44 PM
"If I had started that slowly in Chicago, I would have been booed so much that I would have walked away," Thomas said (referring to his slow start this season...)

from chicagosports.com

salty99
08-27-2006, 10:45 PM
"If I had started that slowly in Chicago, I would have been booed so much that I would have walked away," Thomas said (referring to his slow start this season...)

from chicagosports.com

Geez give it up already Frank! :mad:

patbooyah
08-27-2006, 10:52 PM
frank, you would have been booed because of the **** that is always spewing out of your mouth. you're not eloquent. stop speaking.

Dick Allen
08-27-2006, 10:53 PM
Just when you think he might be done making stupid quotes to the media...

viagracat
08-27-2006, 10:56 PM
Gotta say, his attitude at times and his potshots at the Sox and Sox Fans were part of the reason I voted for Appling instead of Big Frank in the "Greatest White Sox Ever" poll recently. Very disappointing considering all the thrills he gave us over the years.

TheDarkGundam
08-27-2006, 11:03 PM
"If I had started that slowly in Chicago, I would have been booed so much that I would have walked away," Thomas said (referring to his slow start this season...)

from chicagosports.com What a dumbass.
I was there his first night back, did he forget that he got a standing O EVERY TIME he came up to bat?
He may have been the greatest Sox player ever, but he's an ungrateful piece of ****.
:mad:

caulfield12
08-27-2006, 11:07 PM
I voted for Thomas, by the way, there's nobody else you could realistically consider.

Now, if you were voting for best representative of the Spirit of the White Sox, you'd have to go with Fox and Baines 2nd.

Or best pure hitter, probably Shoeless Joe Jackson.

But I'm surprised at this direct broadside against the fans. I think he was simply trying to make the point that there was more pressure to be The Man and higher expectations in Chicago, but those last couple of years we just hoped he could stay healthy, not put up 40 homers and 120 RBI's.

zmz723
08-27-2006, 11:10 PM
:rolleyes: Just Frank being Frank

SoXPriDe33
08-27-2006, 11:12 PM
Big Frank confuses me sometimes. He goes out and says this kind of stuff and then while he's back in Chicago he's seen signing autographs for what seemed like forever and he gets huge ovations every atbat. Frank is my favorite all time Sox player but sometimes I just can't stand what comes out of his mouth.

HotelWhiteSox
08-27-2006, 11:20 PM
An annoying comment (probably said jokingly but whatever), it seems more about his situation there than a dig at us, but he shold understand that when he signs a cheap contract with a team because no one else would touch him while he was still hurt, then expectations probably aren't that high. Anyways, I'll take our fans against A's fans any day of the week, of which the comment implies they don't care about the product on the field

voodoochile
08-27-2006, 11:23 PM
Geez and none of the people lapping this up would have been the people booing right?

Get over it. He's right. He had a horrible rep in Chicago because the Cubune made him into a monster and because he never could stop saying what was on his mind. There are posters on this and other Sox forums who openly and redily admit to booing Frank because they just don't like him regardless of how he plays on the field. They're idiots...

:whocares:

FedEx227
08-27-2006, 11:35 PM
Are we exactly sure of the context of this quote, or if he maybe was joking. I'm not defending him because hes said some crap over the years, but for us to jump on him again based on a written quote just isn't fair.

TornLabrum
08-27-2006, 11:43 PM
Geez and none of the people lapping this up would have been the people booing right?

Get over it. He's right. He had a horrible rep in Chicago because the Cubune made him into a monster and because he never could stop saying what was on his mind. There are posters on this and other Sox forums who openly and redily admit to booing Frank because they just don't like him regardless of how he plays on the field. They're idiots...

:whocares:
Bingo. Remember when Bobby Thigpen struggled the year after he set the saves record? I do. He was booed mercilessly when he was walking in from the bullpen.

Remember when Jerry Manuel was announced as one of the coaches at the All-Star Game a couple of years ago? I do. He was booed mercilessly.

Frank is right. There are a lot of Sox fans who can only be called boors.

For those of you griping about what he said, he said, "If I'd started" poorly. You know. Like Brian Anderson...who got booed.

EDIT: Oh, and who some people around here as recently as a week or two ago, still hadn't figured out that he's raised his average by about .070.

hi im skot
08-28-2006, 12:27 AM
Notice that the article comes from chicagosports.com.

I'm willing to bet that the reporter who interviewed Frank asked a loaded question...something along the lines of, "So, Frank...White Sox fans probably wouldn't have been very patient with you this year, right?"

But I'm with Voodoo...

Who cares?

TheDarkGundam
08-28-2006, 12:34 AM
For those of you griping about what he said, he said, "If I'd started" poorly. You know. Like Brian Anderson...who got booed.

Right, but BA isn't Frank Thomas. The same Frank Thomas who got a standing ovation when he hit 2 homers for the other team.

Nellie_Fox
08-28-2006, 01:44 AM
He's absolutely right. He would have been booed.

Buehrle was getting booed, and there are plenty of WSI posters who absolutely defend the act of booing your own players. And Voodoo is correct, a lot of you who are now on here spewing your usual bile about how much you hate Frank would have been on your feet leading the booing.

hawkjt
08-28-2006, 01:54 AM
Frank knows the way that the talk radio jerks in this town along with the cowleys,and couchs would be egging the public on if he had come back and hit .191 and the defending world series champs were going badly.

Frank would have been blamed, since he would be the new component from the world series team. And he would have been booed.

I am glad it did not happen. Frank can come back later after he retires and the bad taste will not be there anymore.

CLR01
08-28-2006, 02:14 AM
Right, but BA isn't Frank Thomas. The same Frank Thomas who got a standing ovation when he hit 2 homers for the other team.

Please, the only reason he got that standing ovation was because he was making his first trip back since departing. If he was still on the team the standing ovation would not have happened, well maybe after the home runs but not when he first came up to bat.

Frank is 100% right. The fans would have been all over him for that start, booing is probably the best thing he would have heard from some of them. The newspapers and talk radio would have been filled with fans calling him a bum, telling him to retire and telling the world he alone is the reason for the Sox troubles.

What am I talking about, you're right the fans would have been very supportive of him. I mean looking back on the last month of the season I can't think of a single time Buehrle, or any of the other players, has been booed for poor performance. Oh wait a minute.....:rolleyes:

AnkleSox
08-28-2006, 02:16 AM
Good thing he plays for the team with the classiest fans in all of baseball :rolleyes:

Rockin Robin
08-28-2006, 02:18 AM
Oh calm down everyone, he's probably right...he's been booed before in this town, i doubt this year would've been any different

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 02:58 AM
Now, if you were voting for best representative of the Spirit of the White Sox, you'd have to go with Fox and Baines 2nd.
.

Bull****--Thomas is the rep no matter what:

after all ,a guy who gets pissy when the chips are down--what could be more emblematic of a Sox fan, especially as exemplified on this board?

The spirit of the White Sox is to expect the worst and crow mercilessly about how it's coming. Do you doubt that?

I'm not saying I don't like White Sox fans, or that I would change my affiliation for anything in the world. I'm just trying to be realistic.

Frank is the perfect representative for the Sox, even beyond his unbelievably phenomenal playing record

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 03:01 AM
He's absolutely right. He would have been booed.

Buehrle was getting booed, and there are plenty of WSI posters who absolutely defend the act of booing your own players. And Voodoo is correct, a lot of you who are now on here spewing your usual bile about how much you hate Frank would have been on your feet leading the booing.

exACTly--since Frank, no player has done more for this franchise than Buehrle( with the possible exception of Konerko). If anyone's earned reprieve it's Buehrle (who, ironically more exemplifies the self-aggrandizing "ideal of the white sox fan" caulfield detailed in his post)....

There's no excuse for Buehrle to be booed. Any season ticket holder who boos him should lose his season tickets. Any single game holder should be barred from the park.

I absolutely believe Frank would have been booed if he had started the first two months hitting .220 for us. Remember Hangar wanting to sell Dye off to the circus?

IlliniSox4Life
08-28-2006, 03:27 AM
First of all, he would have gotten some boos. He would have gotten more boos if he was making 12 million or whatever his option was for. I'd be far more patient with a guy making 500k than one making 12 million (*cough*Vazquez*cough*)

That said, I think Sox fans were remarkably patient with BA this year. He got his share of Boos, but they weren't too bad. He also had plenty of supporters. Frank would have been boo'd a bit for a slow start, but he would have never gotten it nearly as bad as guys like Arod or Korey Patterson.


The point is, I guess, that I think most of us want to love Frank and have everything be cool between us and him, and I geniuinely believe Frank wants the same thing, he just doesn't realize what he says sometimes - kind of like our manager. I don't think Frank is a bad guy. I don't think Ozzie is a bad guy. I think they actually are both pretty nice guys that treat people and fans a lot better than most other personalities in baseball. They just tend to stick their feet in their mouths every now and then.

And, it's not like I've never said something about someone that was stupid, so who am I to be extremely offended. Frank has countless times said how much he appreciates the fans in Chicago. I don't think he was trying to take that all back now.

Steelrod
08-28-2006, 05:16 AM
It's only a matter of time until he spews at the Oakland press, and perhaps their fans also. It's in the man's makeup.

FJA
08-28-2006, 08:09 AM
Frank is right on this one, unfortunately. Also unfortunately, I think he's in for a rude awakening in Oakland if they re-sign him for big bucks and he doesn't duplicate his outstanding second half next year.

CubsfansareDRUNK
08-28-2006, 08:37 AM
First of all, he would have gotten some boos. He would have gotten more boos if he was making 12 million or whatever his option was for. I'd be far more patient with a guy making 500k than one making 12 million (*cough*Vazquez*cough*)

That said, I think Sox fans were remarkably patient with BA this year. He got his share of Boos, but they weren't too bad. He also had plenty of supporters. Frank would have been boo'd a bit for a slow start, but he would have never gotten it nearly as bad as guys like Arod or Korey Patterson.


The point is, I guess, that I think most of us want to love Frank and have everything be cool between us and him, and I geniuinely believe Frank wants the same thing, he just doesn't realize what he says sometimes - kind of like our manager. I don't think Frank is a bad guy. I don't think Ozzie is a bad guy. I think they actually are both pretty nice guys that treat people and fans a lot better than most other personalities in baseball. They just tend to stick their feet in their mouths every now and then.

And, it's not like I've never said something about someone that was stupid, so who am I to be extremely offended. Frank has countless times said how much he appreciates the fans in Chicago. I don't think he was trying to take that all back now.

Great point. What has Anderson proved yet? I certainly wouldn't boo Frank if he got off to a slow start.

twsoxfan5
08-28-2006, 09:01 AM
I think everyone reserves the right to dislike Frank Thomas b/c he has proved over the years that he is not the most personable guy in the world. I have always thought of Frank as a great ballplayer and a rotten person. He is the best player in Sox history but he is not in my top 5 as far as favorite players go.

Juice16
08-28-2006, 09:18 AM
he's right, i don't think this a shot at fans at all.

ND_Sox_Fan
08-28-2006, 09:37 AM
I think this was a joke or a half-teal comment. I can almost hear this having been said off-the-cuff around a locker after a game.

And as others have said, it was not a "shot" at Sox fans.

Uncle_Patrick
08-28-2006, 09:38 AM
I read the article and I knew that Frank was 100% right. Had he started in a slump here, the media would have been all over him and so would many fans. There were many times in the past several years that a struggling Frank Thomas, wearing a White Sox uniform, was loudly booed in his home stadium.

The Immigrant
08-28-2006, 09:53 AM
Expectations are different when you're a shot-in-the-dark free agent signee (for $500k + incentives) as opposed to a franchise player who is expected to carry the team. To say that Sox fans would react differently than any other fan base to a slow start by their team's best player is wrong, especially when that player has no clue how to deal with the press. To the contrary, Sox fans were remarkably patient with Brian Anderson this year and with Paul Konerko in seasons past when he had very slow starts. Sox fans were not always fair to Frank, but Frank also had an uncanny ability to alienate his fan base (mostly with his mouth). It's time for both sides to just move on.

It's amazing what a polarizing figure Frank Thomas has become among Sox fans. For some he can do no right while for others he can do no wrong, as evidenced by this very thread.

1917
08-28-2006, 10:03 AM
First of all, he would have gotten some boos. He would have gotten more boos if he was making 12 million or whatever his option was for. I'd be far more patient with a guy making 500k than one making 12 million (*cough*Vazquez*cough*)

That said, I think Sox fans were remarkably patient with BA this year. He got his share of Boos, but they weren't too bad. He also had plenty of supporters. Frank would have been boo'd a bit for a slow start, but he would have never gotten it nearly as bad as guys like Arod or Korey Patterson.


The point is, I guess, that I think most of us want to love Frank and have everything be cool between us and him, and I geniuinely believe Frank wants the same thing, he just doesn't realize what he says sometimes - kind of like our manager. I don't think Frank is a bad guy. I don't think Ozzie is a bad guy. I think they actually are both pretty nice guys that treat people and fans a lot better than most other personalities in baseball. They just tend to stick their feet in their mouths every now and then.

And, it's not like I've never said something about someone that was stupid, so who am I to be extremely offended. Frank has countless times said how much he appreciates the fans in Chicago. I don't think he was trying to take that all back now.

Perfect point about the $$....

Flight #24
08-28-2006, 10:13 AM
This is ludicrous and as noted - is exactly what Frank was referring to! He loves the Chicago fans. He's said this repeatedly and demonstrated it via his actions with them. However, for a number of reasons, including the KW issues, the local mediot issues, and the fact that he was injured for this team for the past 2 years, he would not have had the luxury of a slow start here. That's exactly what he said. Not "the fans are bad because they would have booed me".

That's a plain and simple fact. You can argue that he should have known it would be misconstrued and not said it, but that's vintage Frank - his whole career has been characterized/plagued by his honesty and his words being twisted by others. He's not media-savvy, but that's far cry from being a bad guy.

Note how no one mentions that this "clubhouse cancer/idiot" (per KW & the local mediots) is being acclaimed as a veteran leader and a guy who spends a lot of time helping the younger players in Oakland. Kind of like what I recall being said by Uribe & Rowand in Chicago (not that that was ever discussed much either).

Frank - here's to you. I hope that KW has the sense to bring you back at the end of your career either to contribute as a DH or at least to retire in the uniform that you should.:cheers:

PaulDrake
08-28-2006, 10:21 AM
Gotta say, his attitude at times and his potshots at the Sox and Sox Fans were part of the reason I voted for Appling instead of Big Frank in the "Greatest White Sox Ever" poll recently. Very disappointing considering all the thrills he gave us over the years. That's exactly the reason I voted for Appling. I defended Frank for years, but for me enough was enough.

miker
08-28-2006, 10:26 AM
Frank who?

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 10:27 AM
That's exactly the reason I voted for Appling. I defended Frank for years, but for me enough was enough.

And so you just proved Frank's point, which wasn't a potshot, but an accurate assessment of how easily fooled by the media some Sox fans are.

PaulDrake
08-28-2006, 10:39 AM
And so you just proved Frank's point, which wasn't a potshot, but an accurate assessment of how easily fooled by the media some Sox fans are. It doesn't prove anything except how immature, petulant and childish Frank can be. Were those standing O's Frank got in Chicago earlier this year a figment of my imagination? Greatness, genius and the celebrity that comes with it are enabled in our culture. I just got tired of being one of Frank's enablers, even my patience and good nature can be exhausted. I don't need anyones help, let alone the pathetic Chicago sports media to make up my own mind. Lastly, I defended Frank Thomas again and again and never booed him, and don't intend to start now.

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 10:44 AM
It doesn't prove anything except how immature, petulant and childish Frank can be. Were those standing O's Frank got in Chicago earlier this year a figment of my imagination? Greatness, genius and the celebrity that comes with it are enabled in our culture. I just got tired of being one of Frank's enablers, even my patience and good nature can be exhausted. I don't need anyones help, let alone the pathetic Chicago sports media to make up my own mind. Lastly, I defended Frank Thomas again and again and never booed him, and don't intend to start now.
It has nothing to do with the standing O's. Frank didn't say "when I come back they won't give me a standing O". Frank said "if I had struggled as a White Sox they would have booed me."

Frank has struggled in the past. Frank has been booed for it. Where's the confusion here?

A lot of people here think it's OK TO BOO A ROOKIE. That they have THE RIGHT TO BOO A ROOKIE. And you think Frank somehow said something completely out of line because FINALLY sox fans did the right thing and cheered the guy in ONE GAME?

People boo Mark Buehrle. People feel justified in booing Mark Buehrle--the same Buehrle who quietly has been our best pitcher for the past X years. The same Buehrle who DOESN'T make the media faux pas's Frank does. The same Mark Buehrle who was an integral part to our first WS title in my, or pretty much anyone's, lifetime.

I would take a bullet for Mark Buehrle but some Sox "fans" think it's appropriate to boo him. Grow up. Frank is 100% right and it makes me sick to my stomach.

soxinem1
08-28-2006, 10:49 AM
Geez and none of the people lapping this up would have been the people booing right?

Get over it. He's right. He had a horrible rep in Chicago because the Cubune made him into a monster and because he never could stop saying what was on his mind. There are posters on this and other Sox forums who openly and redily admit to booing Frank because they just don't like him regardless of how he plays on the field. They're idiots...

:whocares:


I hate to admit it, but if Frank had come back this year as the primary DH, and hit like he did until the A's came to town, he would have been booed off the planet and released.

I remember back in 1998 when Frank was struggling to hit .250 most of the first half, and all I kept hearing is boos when he made outs and people yelling stuff like 'Well, whenever you are ready to hit, let us know!' Then the next year when Manuel dumped on him because he wouldn't hit with a broken foot, the boos continued until the end of April 2000 when he started really scalding the ball.

While I think Frank should hire a publicist, I don't think he really said anything to damage himself.

I guess the truth hurts some people.....

TomBradley72
08-28-2006, 11:07 AM
"If I had started that slowly in Chicago, I would have been booed so much that I would have walked away," Thomas said (referring to his slow start this season...)

from chicagosports.com

C'mon Frank...all you had to do was bring a note from your Doctor..and all would have been forgiven. :cool:

gobears1987
08-28-2006, 11:17 AM
Frank is 100% right. A bunch of the morons on this board posted that they would be booing Frank when he returned in May. You people are classless. I understand booing Javy Vazquez, but Frank Thomas is the greatest player in Sox history.

If you plan on booing him or bashing him in any way, please turn in your black and silder and pick up some Cubby Blue. If you don't like Frank, please get off of the ****ing bandwagon and join your brothers on the North Side.:angry:[/rant]

Britt Burns
08-28-2006, 11:21 AM
Oh Frank...don't confuse Chicago fans with Chicago media. You could do no wrong with most of us for the whole time you wore a Sox uniform, even when there were many times it would have been easy to turn on you. There is going to be a huge statue of you at the Cell in the not-too-distant future, but only if you stop the biting/whiny comments, and quick.

TomBradley72
08-28-2006, 11:28 AM
Frank is 100% right. A bunch of the morons on this board posted that they would be booing Frank when he returned in May. You people are classless. I understand booing Javy Vazquez, but Frank Thomas is the greatest player in Sox history.
[/rant]

Great generalization.

Many of us (including me) were at his first game back...4 standing ovations. Doesn't mean Frank wasn't a complete pain in the ass at times.

zach23
08-28-2006, 11:28 AM
To the contrary, Sox fans were remarkably patient with Brian Anderson this year



They were? I didn't see much patience out there. My seats are in the bleachers and it seemed like every game there were tons of people out there booing him, yelling at him to go back to AAA, yelling out "Where's Rowand", and telling him he sucked. That went on for months.

Frank is dead on with his comment. The bottom line is, if you wear a Sox uniform you had best never have a slump or you will be booed with no mercy and torn apart on the talk radio shows and in the papers.

gobears1987
08-28-2006, 11:30 AM
Great generalization.

Many of us (including me) were at his first game back...4 standing ovations. Doesn't mean Frank wasn't a complete pain in the ass at times.I never said all or most. I said that many did say they would boo him. That is a fact. Do a search function on this site. I made a poll and you wouldn't believe the number of morons who posted.

DaleJRFan
08-28-2006, 11:34 AM
In related news, over at ESPN:

Rumor Central: Big Hurt wants multiyear deal (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors)

Vernam
08-28-2006, 11:42 AM
That article was like a throwback to the Trib's old, pre-championship coverage of the Sox -- in other words, it seems timed and crafted primarily to embarrass the Sox organization. "Oakland's in first and you're not, nyah nyah!" "Thome's hurt and Frank's not, bwa-hah!"

Apart from its source (Haugh the junior hatchet man), the article's most telling aspect was the artificially constricted window it selected to compare Frank's stats to Thome's. They only considered games since June 1, which makes it look like the Sox screwed up by not renewing Frank. We all know Frank was crap in April and May, while Thome's first two months were about as good as any lefty hitter in Sox history. So what does Haugh do? He pretends they didn't happen.:angry: Bull****.

Another point they conveniently ignore is that he never would have played here for $500K plus incentives. And it's interesting that the article makes ZERO mention of how this season has probably made Frank a mortal lock for the Hall of Fame (though I obviously believed he was already). Referring to that wouldn't have fit the paper's agenda.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for Frank, and I hope we get to spank him in the playoffs.

Vernam

kobo
08-28-2006, 12:13 PM
Frank is 100% right. A bunch of the morons on this board posted that they would be booing Frank when he returned in May. You people are classless. I understand booing Javy Vazquez, but Frank Thomas is the greatest player in Sox history.

If you plan on booing him or bashing him in any way, please turn in your black and silder and pick up some Cubby Blue. If you don't like Frank, please get off of the ****ing bandwagon and join your brothers on the North Side.:angry:[/rant]
So it's ok to boo Vazquez, but not ok to boo Thomas? All because Thomas has reached the status of 'greatest Sox player in franchise history' according to some people. Don't get me wrong, I think he probably was the greatest player to ever wear a Sox uniform, but personality wise, I don't care for the man. Never have. I have no clue in what context he made his comment, and as others have stated, he is right, he would have been booed. This is starting to go back to the argument about whether or not it is right to boo a player.

I don't see anything wrong with booing a player. And I don't think you give a pass to someone just because he may be one of the all time greats. I also wasn't aware that I ahve to like every single player who wears a Sox uniform, like some posters have implied. For me, if I were to boo Thomas, I wouldn't be booing Thomas the player, I'd be booing Thomas the human being. He has every right to speak his mind, but there's a difference between being an ass about it and showing some class. That's one thing that Thomas has never shown, class. On the field he was great and he should be respected and celebrated for that. Off the field is a different story, and I'm sorry, but I don't respect him.

Flight #24
08-28-2006, 12:23 PM
Another point they conveniently ignore is that he never would have played here for $500K plus incentives. And it's interesting that the article makes ZERO mention of how this season has probably made Frank a mortal lock for the Hall of Fame (though I obviously believed he was already). Referring to that wouldn't have fit the paper's agenda.



Just a minor point, but IIRC, Frank was on record as saying that his primary goal was to retire as a White Sox and the the money wasn't going to be the main issue. IMO, had the Sox offered him a 500k-1M deal, he'd have taken it. But KW was not going to even entertain that as an option - he wanted Frank gone.

batmanZoSo
08-28-2006, 12:35 PM
Big deal, he's probably right anyway. A politician he is not. If you still don't know that, you need to get your head checked. I don't know if that's "taking a shot" at Sox fans anyway. In fact it isn't, that's a poor choice of words. The thread starter is a little accustomed to reading the Trib.

Scottzilla
08-28-2006, 12:41 PM
Frank is a sensitive guy and just has never gotten the respect or attention he deserved in this town. I'm sure if you had a real conversation with him on the subject of fans hed say sox fans are great but there are also some reall a holes at sox games.

Palehose13
08-28-2006, 12:47 PM
Frank's right. He would have gotten booed. He was booed in 2002 when he started slow after his tricep injury. It hurts to say this, but I think a lot of people who have shown up at the park the last few years and booed Frank never really appreciated what he did and accomplished with the Sox. Hell, I have gotten into many arguments with *******s that were booing Frank Thomas. Those ****ers would have been lucky to hold his jock.

Frankly Missing
08-28-2006, 12:50 PM
I'm willing to wager Frank signed more autographs in any single season than many big name players do in their entire career.

It amazes me how many Sox fans bought into the Chicago media head hunt of Frank.

Frank is right, he would have been tarred and feathered in April, despite his numbers and years of fan friendliness.

Steelrod
08-28-2006, 12:51 PM
Just a minor point, but IIRC, Frank was on record as saying that his primary goal was to retire as a White Sox and the the money wasn't going to be the main issue. IMO, had the Sox offered him a 500k-1M deal, he'd have taken it. But KW was not going to even entertain that as an option - he wanted Frank gone.
You opinion is flawed. KW could only offer him 8 million (80% of last year) As far as contracts go, I believe Frank had his contracts with the Sox restructured at least 3 times. Money IS important to Frank. Me too for that matter!

getonbckthr
08-28-2006, 12:59 PM
Go to hell Frank, your an Athletic Frank worry about the A's and not the White Sox or their fans. Isn't that what all the Frank supporters were asking KW to do during their little problem earlier in the year? Well now i'm asking Frank to do the same.

daveeym
08-28-2006, 01:28 PM
They were? I didn't see much patience out there. My seats are in the bleachers and it seemed like every game there were tons of people out there booing him, yelling at him to go back to AAA, yelling out "Where's Rowand", and telling him he sucked. That went on for months.

Frank is dead on with his comment. The bottom line is, if you wear a professional baseball uniform you had best never have a slump or you will be booed with no mercy and torn apart on the talk radio shows and in the papers. Fixed that for you.

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 01:33 PM
Oh Frank...don't confuse Chicago fans with Chicago media. You could do no wrong with most of us for the whole time you wore a Sox uniform, even when there were many times it would have been easy to turn on you. There is going to be a huge statue of you at the Cell in the not-too-distant future, but only if you stop the biting/whiny comments, and quick.

BZZZT! Wrong.

Frank was often booed in his less successful years

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 01:34 PM
I don't see anything wrong with booing a player. And I don't think you give a pass to someone just because he may be one of the all time greats. I also wasn't aware that I ahve to like every single player who wears a Sox uniform, like some posters have implied. For me, if I were to boo Thomas, I wouldn't be booing Thomas the player, I'd be booing Thomas the human being. He has every right to speak his mind, but there's a difference between being an ass about it and showing some class. That's one thing that Thomas has never shown, class. On the field he was great and he should be respected and celebrated for that. Off the field is a different story, and I'm sorry, but I don't respect him.

Well then you're the exact type of fan Frank was talking about. And since I see your sentiment echoed often in this thread, I don't see what is so contentious about Frank's comment.

I'm still waiting for an explanation on how he's bashing the fans rather than speaking the truth.

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 01:35 PM
I'm willing to wager Frank signed more autographs in any single season than many big name players do in their entire career.

It amazes me how many Sox fans bought into the Chicago media head hunt of Frank.

Frank is right, he would have been tarred and feathered in April, despite his numbers and years of fan friendliness.

Exactly--as much as posters here like to pretend they're not Cubune sheep, I see a lot of little lambs posting garbage in this thread

Vernam
08-28-2006, 01:35 PM
Frank's right. He would have gotten booed. He was booed in 2002 when he started slow after his tricep injury. It hurts to say this, but I think a lot of people who have shown up at the park the last few years and booed Frank never really appreciated what he did and accomplished with the Sox. Hell, I have gotten into many arguments with *******s that were booing Frank Thomas. Those ****ers would have been lucky to hold his jock.I completely agree, and in fact, I feel the same about everyone from last year's team. No one sitting next to me had better boo those guys for the duration of this season, no matter how far they might fall out of contention. The morons who call in to the postgame shows are total embarrasments to us all. I literally screamed yesterday when some guy was complaining on WSCR that Kenny and Ozzie never should have stuck with Jose Contreras after the All Star break. As if his 17-game win streak had never happened! These are the same people who booed Frank. I'm glad they identify themselves so readily, because it helps me avoid them.:cool:

Vernam

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 01:37 PM
Go to hell Frank, your an Athletic Frank worry about the A's and not the White Sox or their fans. Isn't that what all the Frank supporters were asking KW to do during their little problem earlier in the year? Well now i'm asking Frank to do the same.

Now this is actually a valid take on the issue. Frank shouldn't be talking about it...but I'm sure a reporter asked him.

I do think the Go to hell Frank thing is a little over the line.

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 01:38 PM
Fixed that for you.

Um...no. Would Red Sox fans boo Ortiz if he started out hitting .220 next year? I really really doubt it. Did Yankees fans boo Jeter when he had his slump a couple years ago?

And yet we're already booing Buehrle, not one year removed from a world series victory--the first in 88 years.

Some Sox fans have the tendency to be kneejerk *******s.

hawkjt
08-28-2006, 01:40 PM
Frank has always been good with the fans when he was at appearances or signing autographs ect.

The thing with Frank was; watch what he does not what he says. He is a good guy but a guy like Haugh is just licking his chops to draw an inappropriate comment out of Frank. Frank just falls for it everytime.

Haugh is like the rest of the press - Frank did not suck up to them by being a phony and was too honest- they eat guys like that for breakfast.

Flight #24
08-28-2006, 01:43 PM
You opinion is flawed. KW could only offer him 8 million (80% of last year) As far as contracts go, I believe Frank had his contracts with the Sox restructured at least 3 times. Money IS important to Frank. Me too for that matter!

You're confusing arbitration rules with Frank's situation. Prior to declining the team option, the Sox could easily have renegotiated with Frank on a lower deal. Heck I'm not 100% on this, but I believe even after buying him out, they could have done that. I believe there are quotes from Frank on record as saying that's what he had expected based on prior conversations with KW & JR.

The 80% rule comes in if they offered him arbitration. But there was plenty of time to come to terms prior to that deadline.

CLR01
08-28-2006, 01:48 PM
So it's ok to boo Vazquez, but not ok to boo Thomas? All because Thomas has reached the status of 'greatest Sox player in franchise history' according to some people. Don't get me wrong, I think he probably was the greatest player to ever wear a Sox uniform, but personality wise, I don't care for the man. Never have. I have no clue in what context he made his comment, and as others have stated, he is right, he would have been booed. This is starting to go back to the argument about whether or not it is right to boo a player.

I don't see anything wrong with booing a player. And I don't think you give a pass to someone just because he may be one of the all time greats. I also wasn't aware that I ahve to like every single player who wears a Sox uniform, like some posters have implied. For me, if I were to boo Thomas, I wouldn't be booing Thomas the player, I'd be booing Thomas the human being. He has every right to speak his mind, but there's a difference between being an ass about it and showing some class. That's one thing that Thomas has never shown, class. On the field he was great and he should be respected and celebrated for that. Off the field is a different story, and I'm sorry, but I don't respect him.


I would like to assume your opinion of Frank, the human being, is based on your own interactions off the field with the man and not a bunch of mis-quotes and spin you read in the papers or heard on the radio but I doubt that.

daveeym
08-28-2006, 01:50 PM
Um...no. Would Red Sox fans boo Ortiz if he started out hitting .220 next year? I really really doubt it. Did Yankees fans boo Jeter when he had his slump a couple years ago?

And yet we're already booing Buehrle, not one year removed from a world series victory--the first in 88 years.

Some Sox fans have the tendency to be kneejerk *******s.Yeah they would boo ortiz and jeter has been booed. Don't kid yourself and think Frank's a special case.

The Immigrant
08-28-2006, 02:21 PM
Um...no. Would Red Sox fans boo Ortiz if he started out hitting .220 next year? I really really doubt it. Did Yankees fans boo Jeter when he had his slump a couple years ago?

Um, yes they did. Jeter has been booed, Manny has been booed, Randy Johnson has been booed, and Ken Griffey has been booed (by his hometown crowd!). There are no sacred cows in professional sports.

I have no doubt that Red Sox fans would boo David Ortiz is he was hitting .220 in May. That's the reality of professional sports.

kobo
08-28-2006, 02:49 PM
Well then you're the exact type of fan Frank was talking about.
And what type of fan am I?

skottyj242
08-28-2006, 02:53 PM
I think this is more of a swipe at Oakland fans not caring about their team.

kobo
08-28-2006, 02:55 PM
I would like to assume your opinion of Frank, the human being, is based on your own interactions off the field with the man and not a bunch of mis-quotes and spin you read in the papers or heard on the radio but I doubt that.
You're right, I am basing my opinion off of what I have read in the paper or magazine articles or seen on tv in interviews, post game clips, etc. I have never met the man, I have had friends who have met him and have given me varying opinions of the man. Now, is that fair of me to have the opinion that I do? Not really. But it's my opinion, and it's how I feel, and if people think this makes me less of a fan, then so be it. I cheered Thomas when he was here and think he was one of the greats. However, everything that I have read about him or clips that I have seen on TV have not impressed me. I don't understand why that is such a big deal for people to understand. I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt numerous times, and I don't think what he said recently was wrong, but I still don't have much respect for the guy. Again, it's my opinion and my impression of the guy. I am not trying to tell anyone what to think or how they should act or anything like that, all I did was offer my thoughts and opinions.

maurice
08-28-2006, 03:01 PM
These tags are LONG overdue:

:threadsucks

:threadblows:

:whoflungpoo

The title of this thread is ridculous. He didn't "take[] a shot at Sox fans." He never has, and he probably never will.

JohnBasedowYoda
08-28-2006, 03:18 PM
What a dumbass.
I was there his first night back, did he forget that he got a standing O EVERY TIME he came up to bat?
He may have been the greatest Sox player ever, but he's an ungrateful piece of ****.
:mad:

What he said.

You were at that game? So was I...*sighs*

CLR01
08-28-2006, 03:26 PM
You're right, I am basing my opinion off of what I have read in the paper or magazine articles or seen on tv in interviews, post game clips, etc. I have never met the man, I have had friends who have met him and have given me varying opinions of the man. Now, is that fair of me to have the opinion that I do? Not really. But it's my opinion, and it's how I feel, and if people think this makes me less of a fan, then so be it. I cheered Thomas when he was here and think he was one of the greats. However, everything that I have read about him or clips that I have seen on TV have not impressed me. I don't understand why that is such a big deal for people to understand. I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt numerous times, and I don't think what he said recently was wrong, but I still don't have much respect for the guy. Again, it's my opinion and my impression of the guy. I am not trying to tell anyone what to think or how they should act or anything like that, all I did was offer my thoughts and opinions.


I am not calling you less of a fan because you choose to boo the man, I don't agree with it but whatever. If you are going to boo, boo Frank Thomas the baseball player not Frank Thomas the human being. As you said you have never met him and have no idea what kind of person he is. Using media reports (from a media that seems to have had an agenda against Frank for some time) and quotes that have been chopped and twist is wrong.

Like many here I only question why people are getting so upset with what he said, it's true. Yes sometimes it would help if Frank just shut up but that is not how he does things, that should be no surprise to anyone by now.

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 03:47 PM
What he said.

You were at that game? So was I...*sighs*

why do people insist on being ridiculous.

the standing o is beside the point. as a sox he would have been booed for hitting .220--this is the logical assumption to make since he's been booed in sox garb for less.

caulfield12
08-28-2006, 03:48 PM
These tags are LONG overdue:

:threadsucks

:threadblows:

:whoflungpoo

The title of this thread is ridculous. He didn't "take[] a shot at Sox fans." He never has, and he probably never will.

What do you prefer, Thomas points out that A's fans are more patient?

Expectations for Thomas lower in Oakland?

Thomas not expected to carry team (when's the last year we expected that of him in Chicago, 2001 before he was hurt?)

Thomas thinks A's fans are faithful and more forgiving?

Some are arguing that A's fans are "worse" because they're not passionate enough to boo their players that are struggling. Then others will try to point out how great Yankees fans are for not booing Jeter or Cardinals fans for not booing McGwire/McGee/Pujols...etc. (Ripken, Puckett, Gwynn, Mattingly, et al)

ondafarm
08-28-2006, 03:50 PM
I boo players all the time.

Guys who can't get bunts down.

Guys who miss hit and run play signs.

Bums who don't run out groundballs.

Pitchers who blow the game stupidly.

Managers who leave guys out there too long.

Fans who run onto the field.

And steroid induced home run hitters: Barry Bonds, Giambi, Palmeiro, Sosa, etc.

TheDarkGundam
08-28-2006, 03:51 PM
why do people insist on being ridiculous.

the standing o is beside the point. as a sox he would have been booed for hitting .220--this is the logical assumption to make since he's been booed in sox garb for less.
Yeah, but he knows that the fans still love him.
He can't just assume we'd all of a sudden turn on him cause his batting average sucks, even if it may be true.
So basically, Frank, shut the hell up.

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 03:56 PM
Yeah, but he knows that the fans still love him.
He can't just assume we'd all of a sudden turn on him cause his batting average sucks, even if it may be true.
So basically, Frank, shut the hell up.

BUT THEY HAVE IN THE PAST. That's the point. We love him, but some people still hate him when he's slumping on the sox.

FRANK THOMAS HAS BEEN BOOED AS A SOX. That's what matters here, and to think a standing o changes that fact is silly.

caulfield12
08-28-2006, 03:57 PM
I boo players all the time.

Guys who can't get bunts down.

Guys who miss hit and run play signs.

Bums who don't run out groundballs.

Pitchers who blow the game stupidly.

Managers who leave guys out there too long.

Fans who run onto the field.

And steroid induced home run hitters: Barry Bonds, Giambi, Palmeiro, Sosa, etc.

Don't forget McGwire, Canseco, I-Roid, Juan Gonzalez

caulfield12
08-28-2006, 04:00 PM
BUT THEY HAVE IN THE PAST. That's the point. We love him, but some people still hate him when he's slumping on the sox.

FRANK THOMAS HAS BEEN BOOED AS A SOX. That's what matters here, and to think a standing o changes that fact is silly.

I remember earlier in the season (late April/early May) when Chavez said he couldn't wait until Bonds signed with the A's in the offseason.

There were quite a few grumbles and head shakes from the fans then, not sure if it was outright booing exactly but it certainly wasn't warm either.

TheDarkGundam
08-28-2006, 04:08 PM
BUT THEY HAVE IN THE PAST. That's the point. We love him, but some people still hate him when he's slumping on the sox.

FRANK THOMAS HAS BEEN BOOED AS A SOX. That's what matters here, and to think a standing o changes that fact is silly.
Right, I get that, and it would be different if Frank had said "If I was still in Chicago they would've booed me.", but he didn't. He said he would've been booed so bad that he would've had to retire. I take that as he thinks we would all would've turned on him, which I'm pretty sure we all wouldn't have (of course some people would).
Yeah, some people don't like him, and would boo him either way. But Frank should know that most people here wouldn't. He can't assume we'd all boo him, especially based on the reception he still gets here.

maurice
08-28-2006, 04:11 PM
What do you prefer, Thomas points out that A's fans are more patient? . . .

How about "Thomas says some random, irrelevant things"?

The anti-Frank comments in this thread bear no resemblance to the innocuous (and accurate) contents of his quote. Folks are inferring a lot of crap that simply isn't there. If he thinks that enough fans would turn on him to result in loud booing, this thread (and past experience) proves that he's clearly correct. It's not the first time this has happened.

Frank's numerous positive comments about Sox fans may not get much press, but they're all over this site.

caulfield12
08-28-2006, 04:17 PM
Debates about Thomas are like abortion and death penalty symposiums.

I've never once seen someone change their minds...those that have one view only look for support to their positions, those opposing can hear absolutely nothing that changes their belief in Frank's "goodness," many times because of personal interactions they or their children have had with him that are contrary to the prior perceptions or media portrayals.

I remember debating these same issues at chisox.com for much of the last five years, as Thomas had many supporters who would automatically jump to his defense no matter what he had done or said.

I'm sure there are some that will never be happy with, random example, Javier Vazquez because he makes a ton of money...others will be content with his performance because they look at past Sox fifth starters and know that it COULD be much worse. Yet others will never be happy until Brandon McCarthy is starting, and they willl argue we would have won the 1) Division 2) Wild Card 3) World Series if McCarthy had been inserted into the rotation at mid-season.

100 Year Itch
08-28-2006, 04:19 PM
I hate to say it, but I've had more than a few encounters with Thomas in the Rush Street scene and he's a Grade-A Arse. A complete and total "diva", if there can be such a thing in sports entertainment.

With that said, I could careless about his personality. I'm not Frank's buddy or a member of the Thomas family; I'm a White Sox fan and Frank, on the field, made White Sox fans proud. In the end, that is all that matters to me.

caulfield12
08-28-2006, 04:20 PM
Right, I get that, and it would be different if Frank had said "If I was still in Chicago they would've booed me.", but he didn't. He said he would've been booed so bad that he would've had to retire. I take that as he thinks we would all would've turned on him, which I'm pretty sure we all wouldn't have (of course some people would).
Yeah, some people don't like him, and would boo him either way. But Frank should know that most people here wouldn't. He can't assume we'd all boo him, especially based on the reception he still gets here.

It was a little tongue in cheek and overly dramatic, but this is the first post to point out that he said not only would it be difficult (to tune out the boos), but that it could possibly bring him to the point of retirement (even if he was short of 500 homers?) I can't wait until A-Rod threatens Yankees fans with a similar comment and then we might actually see how much worse it can possibly get, lol.

DickAllen72
08-28-2006, 04:54 PM
It's just Frank being Frank. Who cares? I don't miss him.

credeistheman
08-28-2006, 05:07 PM
It's just Frank being Frank. Who cares? I don't miss him.

co-signed.

it hurts to see the hurt in green, but comments like the ones he's been making have certainly made the departure easier to bear.

regardless of the non-sense that comes out of his mouth from now on, he'll always be a chicago sports legend.

Uncle_Patrick
08-28-2006, 05:07 PM
Right, I get that, and it would be different if Frank had said "If I was still in Chicago they would've booed me.", but he didn't. He said he would've been booed so bad that he would've had to retire. I take that as he thinks we would all would've turned on him, which I'm pretty sure we all wouldn't have (of course some people would).
Yeah, some people don't like him, and would boo him either way. But Frank should know that most people here wouldn't. He can't assume we'd all boo him, especially based on the reception he still gets here.

I think Frank can assume that most people would boo him. As Fquaye stated, its happened in the past. I was at home games in 2002 where he was booed. It wasn't a vocal minority doing it, either. The media was all over Frank. Sox fans were saying that Frank was washed up.

You can't factor in the standing O he got when he came back here with Oakland. Its a totally different thing where people are remembering "the good times" (and I'm sure the reaction Thome got in Cleveland was on the mind of more than a few fans, too). If the guy had stayed with the White Sox and slumped, both the media and (many) fans would be all over him. The line about packing it all in may have been a bit of an exaggeration on Frank's part, but who knows? When you feel you've given your all to one team for your whole career and you feel the fans have turned on you as your career is winding down, I imagine its very hard to take. I think when you go somewhere else where you don't really have a history, its a whole new thing and if they boo you, well, it's just not the same.

I think the problem with this thread is that people are taking Frank's comment, which was very general, and looking at it too personally. If Frank said "I know that each and every Sox fan would have booed me", then we'd have a problem. I know that I wouldn't boo Frank. I know that a lot of people who are pissed about the comment probably wouldn't have booed Frank, either. But to act like Frank is wrong and saying something untrue when he says he would have been booed is crazy. The history is there to back him up.

Flight #24
08-28-2006, 05:17 PM
When you feel you've given your all to one team for your whole career and you feel the fans have turned on you as your career is winding down, I imagine its very hard to take. I think when you go somewhere else where you don't really have a history, its a whole new thing and if they boo you, well, it's just not the same.



Bingo - some random person in life tells you you're a washed-up has-been and you shrug it off. A family member tells you that and it can hurt pretty bad.

Frank was stating fact, and noting that not only would the fans have been harder on him had he stayed, but also that he would have taken anything that happened harder.

caulfield12
08-28-2006, 05:30 PM
I'm just curious, have they been booing Bonds in SF this season (somewhat similar season to the way Frank started, injury problems throughout)....or giving him a free pass?

Heck, I've heard quite a few Royals fans booing Sweeney because of his injuries and being on the DL ("soft") all the time. 3-4 years ago, most Royals fans were arguing the franchise would be finished in KC if they let him go...now they would rather have that $11 million per season back to go to a veteran, topflight starting pitcher.

fquaye149
08-28-2006, 06:06 PM
I'm just curious, have they been booing Bonds in SF this season (somewhat similar season to the way Frank started, injury problems throughout)....or giving him a free pass?

Heck, I've heard quite a few Royals fans booing Sweeney because of his injuries and being on the DL ("soft") all the time. 3-4 years ago, most Royals fans were arguing the franchise would be finished in KC if they let him go...now they would rather have that $11 million per season back to go to a veteran, topflight starting pitcher.

there's an onion or sports pickle article

"Fans in SF now booing pitchers who pitch to Bonds"

I don't know if that's true, but it's funny...

But if they are booing Bonds it's mostly steroids. Or at least I hope that's the case.

hold2dibber
08-28-2006, 06:09 PM
What a dumbass.
I was there his first night back, did he forget that he got a standing O EVERY TIME he came up to bat?
He may have been the greatest Sox player ever, but he's an ungrateful piece of ****.
:mad:

Give me a break. I've heard Big Frank booed more than just about any other player in White Sox (recent) history - other than maybe Royce Clayton. Any time he slumped (even when he was injured), Sox fans were all over him. It continually ticked me off. He is absolutely right - if he had started slowly, he would have been booed. I don't know how any Sox fan who was paying any attention during Frank's career could disagree with him.

Scottzilla
08-28-2006, 06:58 PM
Frank was booed more than any other Chicago sports Star for that matter.

Palehose13
08-28-2006, 07:11 PM
Give me a break. I've heard Big Frank booed more than just about any other player in White Sox (recent) history - other than maybe Royce Clayton. Any time he slumped (even when he was injured), Sox fans were all over him. It continually ticked me off. He is absolutely right - if he had started slowly, he would have been booed. I don't know how any Sox fan who was paying any attention during Frank's career could disagree with him.

Yep. That standing O was something different entirely, and like many of you, I was there too (and cheered for his first HR). However, if he was with the Sox this year the fans would not have been forgiving at all.

jabrch
08-28-2006, 09:27 PM
Oh Voodoo....you are a total mark for the Frank Traps, aren't you? I'm like that with Hulk Hogan. Every time he'd "HULK UP" I'd get weak in the knees.

He didn't have a "horrible rep" because of the Tribune. He had a reputation of being one of the greatest hitters of all-time, who was ungreatful for opportunities presented to him. He didn't appreciate his fans, his teammates, his owner or anyone or anything around him.

You know I mean this seriously - I do respect your opinion. But if Frank was even moderately humble, and halfway capable of shutting up when people talked about him, he could have been one of this cities all-time favorites. He is one of this franchise's favorites, despite pissing off teammates, coaches, management, ownership and the fans. That's how lucky he is. He just doesn't notice it - so he lashes out any time he can.

Geez and none of the people lapping this up would have been the people booing right?

Get over it. He's right. He had a horrible rep in Chicago because the Cubune made him into a monster and because he never could stop saying what was on his mind. There are posters on this and other Sox forums who openly and redily admit to booing Frank because they just don't like him regardless of how he plays on the field. They're idiots...

:

fusillirob1983
08-28-2006, 09:56 PM
Just reading through all this, it seems as though many that were offended by Frank's quote are the same ones that said they would boo him.

I just wanted to provide a summary up to this point.

maurice
08-28-2006, 10:02 PM
He had a reputation of being one of the greatest hitters of all-time, who was ungreatful for opportunities presented to him. He didn't appreciate his fans, his teammates, his owner or anyone or anything around him.

LMAO. The fans, teammates, and owner should be grateful to have a great hitter on their team at a realtively low price, leaving plenty of cash for other players. Frank always got along great with the fans, his teammates, and even his owner. Just about the only people he didn't get along with were KW and that ******** David Wells.

he could have been one of this cities all-time favorites. He is one of this franchise's favorites....

Notwithstanding the handful of Frank-haters in this thread, it is correct that Frank is one of Sox fans' all-time favorites. Who gives a crap what Cub fans and the media think?

caulfield12
08-28-2006, 10:07 PM
LMAO. The fans, teammates, and owner should be grateful to have a great hitter on their team at a realtively low price, leaving plenty of cash for other players. Frank always got along great with the fans, his teammates, and even his owner. Just about the only people he didn't get along with were KW and that ******** David Wells.






Notwithstanding the handful of Frank-haters in this thread, it is correct that Frank is one of Sox fans' all-time favorites. Who gives a crap what Cub fans and the media think?

Don't forget D'Angelo Jimenez. They had a famous incident in the clubhouse where Frank almost killed him.

voodoochile
08-28-2006, 10:59 PM
Oh Voodoo....you are a total mark for the Frank Traps, aren't you? I'm like that with Hulk Hogan. Every time he'd "HULK UP" I'd get weak in the knees.

He didn't have a "horrible rep" because of the Tribune. He had a reputation of being one of the greatest hitters of all-time, who was ungreatful for opportunities presented to him. He didn't appreciate his fans, his teammates, his owner or anyone or anything around him.

You know I mean this seriously - I do respect your opinion. But if Frank was even moderately humble, and halfway capable of shutting up when people talked about him, he could have been one of this cities all-time favorites. He is one of this franchise's favorites, despite pissing off teammates, coaches, management, ownership and the fans. That's how lucky he is. He just doesn't notice it - so he lashes out any time he can.
You and I have never seen eye-2-eye on Frank. That's okay. Yes, I am a HUGE Frank fan. His is the only jersey I own of the Sox. My signature says it all from my perspective. I admit that I am biased... totally biased... when it comes to the big man.

Screw the off field stuff, did he earn it on the field? The answer is yes, every day all year long. Frank had a rough second half to his Sox career from a personal, managerial, injury and opinions perspective - the later both based on what he said and from what was reported. It matters naught to me and it shouldn't to most Sox fans, IMO. Frank was the be all and end all of Sox existence for the first half of his career and still put up solid and sometimes spectacular numbers through the injuries and external crap that plagued the last few years. If not for Giambi's artificial bulk, Frank would still be playing for the Sox for huge amounts of money. If you like that idea or not, it's not hard to see why he might have a chip on his shoulder.

**** it... we have long ago agreed to disagree on this topic, and I still love your signature. It's my favorite, aside from my own...:tongue:

Nellie_Fox
08-29-2006, 12:45 AM
Don't forget D'Angelo Jimenez. They had a famous incident in the clubhouse where Frank almost killed him.He'd have had to answer to Bafia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 01:01 AM
He'd have had to answer to Bafia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:hurt
"um... er... uh... yes, ma'am... Damn, she's feisty..."

Flight #24
08-29-2006, 10:58 AM
In the "Thomas wants to play until 42" thread in TB, his comments about the beginning of the season and his feelings towards Chicago fans are pretty clearly said. He says that he struggled with leaving Chicago and with his early season performance, and that the standing O from the fans at USCF helped provide closure and helped him focus on moving forward. Which IMO reinforces that he wasn't taking shots at Sox fans, just making a factual comment about how much harder it is to struggle as a longtime vet with his history in town than in a new situation.

Which makes it quite obvious that rather than being "a shot at Sox fans", it's "a comment that left room to be twisted by the media and biased fans".

That said, my personal thought would be that a change of title would be appropriate because the original poster has it all wrong, but that's not what it seems like when you view the WTS forum. (But I leave that decision to wiser heads like mods.)

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 12:00 PM
In the "Thomas wants to play until 42" thread in TB, his comments about the beginning of the season and his feelings towards Chicago fans are pretty clearly said. He says that he struggled with leaving Chicago and with his early season performance, and that the standing O from the fans at USCF helped provide closure and helped him focus on moving forward. Which IMO reinforces that he wasn't taking shots at Sox fans, just making a factual comment about how much harder it is to struggle as a longtime vet with his history in town than in a new situation.

Which makes it quite obvious that rather than being "a shot at Sox fans", it's "a comment that left room to be twisted by the media and biased fans".

That said, my personal thought would be that a change of title would be appropriate because the original poster has it all wrong, but that's not what it seems like when you view the WTS forum. (But I leave that decision to wiser heads like mods.)
You motivated me to go read the whole article. It's nothing like the way it was presented here. I'm still not changing the title. It shows more about the poster who started its opinion of Frank than it does about frank.

Article (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060826thomas,1,5309837.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

In fact, Thomas still roots for the Sox and thinks they will make the playoffs, talks regularly to friends on the team and maintains the utmost respect for Thome, whom he called before the season to clear the air.

"We hashed it out because he's one guy who's incredible," Thomas said. "That's what that lineup needed, and I understood that part of it. I just always thought I would be that player who would retire there."

(snip)

A 10-minute team meeting earlier this season, for example, lasted 45 after Thomas started answering questions. The Big Hurt has morphed into The Big Help.

(snip)


"Yeah, I've been a little surprised, just given the stuff he's had to deal with the last couple years," Beane said. "We wouldn't be in first place if he wasn't here. I can't imagine a guy being more professional than he has been with our players. He's arguably the most underrated dominant offensive force of his generation, and after that first month, he's been vintage Frank Thomas."
Frank sucks...:rolleyes:

DaleJRFan
08-29-2006, 12:25 PM
Frank sucks...:rolleyes:

Voodoo, always the Frank Thomas apologist. :cool:

Gregory Pratt
08-29-2006, 01:16 PM
Frank Thomas was Chris Widger to start the season.

He'd have been crucified here in Chicago if we had brought him back to DH and sucked that bad. Why? Because we expect big things this year. He wasn't insulting Chicago White Sox fans. He was just saying. Settle down with the "Big Frank was attacking us!" "Classless!" comments.

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 02:04 PM
LMAO. The fans, teammates, and owner should be grateful to have a great hitter on their team at a realtively low price, leaving plenty of cash for other players. Frank always got along great with the fans, his teammates, and even his owner. Just about the only people he didn't get along with were KW and that ******** David Wells.



Notwithstanding the handful of Frank-haters in this thread, it is correct that Frank is one of Sox fans' all-time favorites. Who gives a crap what Cub fans and the media think?

Why does everyone forget the run-ins Thomas had with Ventura, Konerko, Guillen, just to name a few, when they were teammates.

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 02:15 PM
Why does everyone forget the run-ins Thomas had with Ventura, Konerko, Guillen, just to name a few, when they were teammates.

I don't recall a run in with Ventura. Are you referring to the time Frank hoisted Ventura up on his shoulder after the GW GS?

The PK thing was of PK's making. He opened his mouth when Frank got injured and started griping.

Frank and Ozzie seemed to get along fine when Ozzie became the manager, so obviously any run in you are referring to has long since been resolved.

Got any more details or just vague references to fights that may or may not have been of Frank's making.

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 02:27 PM
Just wanted to say something.

I don't think it is surprising that people have such polarized viewpoints of Frank. He certainly had his share of comments that could be reported in a bad light and certainly had problems keeping his mouth shut when the cameras were running, but he also took more grief than any player with his statistical stature ever in this town. He never got his just due from the media or in some cases Sox management (JR excluded from that list).

Certainly there is enough blame to go around on all sides of the situation.

I also don't find it at all surprising that people who believe the negative stuff remember it while the people who remember the good stuff tend not to. That's just human nature. I liked Frank. I enjoyed watching him play. The one time I ran into him in public he was friendly, even if all we did was wave and smile from a distance.

Maybe it's time to put down some of the bad stuff. Frank is gone and isn't coming back. He's going into the HOF wearing Black and Silver. He certainly has the statistics to back up him being the greatest (or one of the greatest) Sox players ever.

Let the man have his legacy. He deserves it if for nothing else than what he did on the field, which was nothing short of spectacular and even the haters can't argue with that point...

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 02:30 PM
I don't recall a run in with Ventura. Are you referring to the time Frank hoisted Ventura up on his shoulder after the GW GS?

The PK thing was of PK's making. He opened his mouth when Frank got injured and started griping.

Frank and Ozzie seemed to get along fine when Ozzie became the manager, so obviously any run in you are referring to has long since been resolved.

Got any more details or just vague references to fights that may or may not have been of Frank's making.

Ill do the research and get it to you. No it was not thomas hoisting him on his shoulders after the GS it was them almost coming to blows in the dugout when Robin called out Frank for lack of hustle if I recall right. Paul Konerko was defending his team when Thomas started griping after his injury, and it has been known for a long time Guillen and Thomas did not get along well when they were teammates because Guillen had balls to call him out when Frank was acting like a jerk.

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 02:40 PM
So far no exact dates but fight with Ventura was in the dugout at Yankee stadium. Paul Konerko calls out Frank for being late to team meetings and Bp the day after being benched.

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 02:43 PM
So far no exact dates but fight with Ventura was in the dugout at Yankee stadium. Paul Konerko calls out Frank for being late to team meetings and Bp the day after being benched.

Okay, I remember the Ventura thing now, vaguely.

The PK thing. Is that really something that Frank initiated? Hasn't PK's big media hungry mouth been well documented on this site time and time again? I mean he called Royce Clayton the best SS he'd ever played with for cripes sake. He's a limelight hog, plain and simple. What PK said to the media should have been kept behind closed doors and I blame PK for it more than I do Frank.

TheLittleBulldog
08-29-2006, 02:56 PM
Okay, I remember the Ventura thing now, vaguely.

The PK thing. Is that really something that Frank initiated? Hasn't PK's big media hungry mouth been well documented on this site time and time again? I mean he called Royce Clayton the best SS he'd ever played with for cripes sake. He's a limelight hog, plain and simple. What PK said to the media should have been kept behind closed doors and I blame PK for it more than I do Frank.

Exactly. White Sox fans, by and large, have turned out to be pretty dense. Konerko's ability to manipulate the media by portraying himself as a regular Joe led to him being cast as the good guy and the less media-savvy Frank as the bad guy. Most White Sox fans bought into it.

Well, Paulie, what about the generally accepted rule that you don't call out teammates in public? Especially when they accomplished more in their first 8 years in the majors than you ever will?

Steelrod
08-29-2006, 03:00 PM
Okay, I remember the Ventura thing now, vaguely.

The PK thing. Is that really something that Frank initiated? Hasn't PK's big media hungry mouth been well documented on this site time and time again? I mean he called Royce Clayton the best SS he'd ever played with for cripes sake. He's a limelight hog, plain and simple. What PK said to the media should have been kept behind closed doors and I blame PK for it more than I do Frank.
Sounds to me that you have some strong feelings for Captain Paul Konerko. If you defend Frank's frankness with the press, I assume you'd afford Konerko the same right!

ondafarm
08-29-2006, 03:02 PM
Give me a break. I've heard Big Frank booed more than just about any other player in White Sox (recent) history - other than maybe Royce Clayton. Any time he slumped (even when he was injured), Sox fans were all over him. It continually ticked me off. He is absolutely right - if he had started slowly, he would have been booed. I don't know how any Sox fan who was paying any attention during Frank's career could disagree with him.

Heck, Frank was booed here at WSI because of his slow start this year. How many threads did we have here asking how come he was a .219 hitter and would the A's bench him and how terrible that he won't get to 500 homers or if his career batting average would dip below .300 because he was hitting only .203.

I met Frank at Dodger Stadium when he was filming his spot in Mr Baseball. He was very gracious, complimented me on my hitting and gave me a tip. We talked for nearly an hour as he did his tour of the place.

He is the prototypical quiet man. Doesn't get pumped up, keeps things low key and keeps things very even keeled for all around him. Some guys that really rubs the wrong way (Ozzie.) Some guys mistake quiet for a lack of intensity (Ventura.) Some guys associate stoicism with weakness (Wells and PK.) Ozzie and Ventura leant.

TheLittleBulldog
08-29-2006, 03:04 PM
Sounds to me that you have some strong feelings for Captain Paul Konerko. If you defend Frank's frankness with the press, I assume you'd afford Konerko the same right!

When did Frank ever punk a teammate to the press the way media darling Konerko did? When?

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 03:04 PM
Sounds to me that you have some strong feelings for Captain Paul Konerko. If you defend Frank's frankness with the press, I assume you'd afford Konerko the same right!

When's the last time Frank called out a teammate in public without being called out by said teammate first?

PK does it all the time.

Frank's talked about his contract. Frank's talked about respect. Frank's talked about his managers and GM's. Frank's even talked about his owner, but honestly can you remember a time Frank stood up to a microphone and without any provocation said, "so and so is a crappy teammate"?

Me either and that's where I draw the line.

TheLittleBulldog
08-29-2006, 03:07 PM
When's the last time Frank called out a teammate in public without being called out by said teammate first?



Me either and that's where I draw the line.

Beat you to it. :D:

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 03:07 PM
Beat you to it. :D:

And much more succinctly too. Good job...

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 03:16 PM
Okay, I remember the Ventura thing now, vaguely.

The PK thing. Is that really something that Frank initiated? Hasn't PK's big media hungry mouth been well documented on this site time and time again? I mean he called Royce Clayton the best SS he'd ever played with for cripes sake. He's a limelight hog, plain and simple. What PK said to the media should have been kept behind closed doors and I blame PK for it more than I do Frank.

Do you really think Konerko is a limelight hog? If I remember correctly Konerko responded to something Thomas said and that the TEAM could get along fine if Thomas didnt want to be there anymore. I think you need to take the fuzzy Frank Thomas glasses off. I loved everything he did for the White Sox , yes I think he is the greatest hitter in Sox history. All I am saying he is and was not the greatest teammate. And whats wrong with Clayton being the best SS that Paulie has played for?

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 03:19 PM
PK does it all the time.

.

When has PK done this? I would like to know?

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 03:21 PM
Do you really think Konerko is a limelight hog? If I remember correctly Konerko responded to something Thomas said and that the TEAM could get along fine if Thomas didnt want to be there anymore. I think you need to take the fuzzy Frank Thomas glasses off. I loved everything he did for the White Sox , yes I think he is the greatest hitter in Sox history. All I am saying he is and was not the greatest teammate. And whats wrong with Clayton being the best SS that Paulie has played for?

Yes, I think PK is a complete and total limelight hog. There is absolutely zero doubt about it in my mind. From the Clayton comment to the stuff with Frank to the countless times he has said something that would have better been kept behind closed doors, PK loves the media and they love him because he feeds them inside dirt on his teammates and gives them easy articles.

I like PK as a player, but he has a mouth every bit as bit a Frank's and he regularly uses it to say stuff that has nothing to do with him personally.

I see the standard, talk about yourself and you are all about you which sucks, but talk about me and you are a great guy...

what a load...

TheLittleBulldog
08-29-2006, 03:22 PM
And much more succinctly too. Good job...

The thing that bothers me is how minor Frank's indescretions are in relation to today's athletes. He has never been in trouble with the law, he has never called out a teammate, and he has never quit on his team. Everytime he claimed to be injured, and was subsequently questioned by his teammates, the injury has turned out to be serious. Yet some Sox fans react as if he were Albert Belle. I don't care if he had contract disputes with management. Baseball is a business. I'd rather see Frank pocket a few more million a year than Reinsdorf and his partners. I don't care that he was obsessed with his stats. Obsessing over stats and wanting to win aren't mutually exclusive. The big guy gave all he had to the White Sox and their fans, and that turned out to be a whole hell of a lot. He should not be villainized.

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 03:23 PM
When has PK done this? I would like to know?

Do a search in the Clubhouse. There's at least 3 massive threads dedicated to crappy comments PK has made to the media about his teammates.

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 03:24 PM
Do you really think Konerko is a limelight hog? If I remember correctly Konerko responded to something Thomas said and that the TEAM could get along fine if Thomas didnt want to be there anymore. I think you need to take the fuzzy Frank Thomas glasses off. I loved everything he did for the White Sox , yes I think he is the greatest hitter in Sox history. All I am saying he is and was not the greatest teammate. And whats wrong with Clayton being the best SS that Paulie has played for?

Well, just might my original quote, I'm sure he was referring to the fact that Clayton was the best in terms of "slickest fielding."

Remember, Konerko had only played with Valentin and Caruso before that, so is it any surprise that Clayton would seem like a Gold Glover compared to those two?

Clayton didn't have great range (this frequently quoted +/- stat that says Jeter has been one of the two worst SS's the last couple of seasons in baseball), but he made the routine, predictable plays he was supposed to make. He didn't throw the ball 95 MPH like Valentin or scare box seat holders like Olberman's grandma and he wasn't a particularly great teammate either, but can you really argue with Konerko's statement?

Who could you say was "the best" that PK played with, Jason Dellaero?

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 03:25 PM
Yes, I think PK is a complete and total limelight hog. There is absolutely zero doubt about it in my mind. From the Clayton comment to the stuff with Frank to the countless times he has said something that would have better been kept behind closed doors, PK loves the media and they love him because he feeds them inside dirt on his teammates and gives them easy articles.

I like PK as a player, but he has a mouth every bit as bit a Frank's and he regularly uses it to say stuff that has nothing to do with him personally.

I see the standard, talk about yourself and you are all about you which sucks, but talk about me and you are a great guy...

what a load...

What exactly has he said that is big clubhouse secrets. You told me to be specific. Could you be? Obviously we are always going to disagree with the Thomas deal. Who else has he called out or been critical of to the public?

CLR01
08-29-2006, 03:26 PM
Okay, I remember the Ventura thing now, vaguely.

The PK thing. Is that really something that Frank initiated? Hasn't PK's big media hungry mouth been well documented on this site time and time again? I mean he called Royce Clayton the best SS he'd ever played with for cripes sake. He's a limelight hog, plain and simple. What PK said to the media should have been kept behind closed doors and I blame PK for it more than I do Frank.


Lets not forget Konerko criticizing Uribe for throwing up the fake stop sign to Derrek Lee last year, keeping him at second base.

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 03:28 PM
Lets not forget Konerko criticizing Uribe for throwing up the fake stop sign to Derrek Lee last year, keeping him at second base.

That wasnt some behind the door secret he said it after the game to the press and I dont think he criticized him for it. I recall saying he wouldnt have done it.

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 03:31 PM
Yes, I think PK is a complete and total limelight hog. There is absolutely zero doubt about it in my mind. From the Clayton comment to the stuff with Frank to the countless times he has said something that would have better been kept behind closed doors, PK loves the media and they love him because he feeds them inside dirt on his teammates and gives them easy articles.

I like PK as a player, but he has a mouth every bit as bit a Frank's and he regularly uses it to say stuff that has nothing to do with him personally.

I see the standard, talk about yourself and you are all about you which sucks, but talk about me and you are a great guy...

what a load...

History will bear out the truth.

Roberto Clemente had a very spotty record with the media (and he had a number of justifiable reasons to be resentful of them, starting with the way they wrote his phonetic pronunciations instead of his words in English), yet most of the writers came around in the end and appreciated him, some when it was too late and he was already gone.

The majority of media are usually pretty objective...nobody will ever think to argue that Konerko is/was the best Sox player in history unless he puts up 5 more seasons like the last 2-3 and wins a couple more WS championships. Even then, he will never be remembered with the fear and apprehension that Thomas from 90-97 was...the plate discipline, walks, he was, along with Griffey, the best totally "natural" hitter of his generation. The size, the rebar he methodically swung in the on-deck circle, the stands full to watch him in batting practice. Interestingly enough, Griffey also has a bad reputation with the media and fans, and yet those are the ones we'll remember as the very best (when healthy).

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 03:32 PM
Lets not forget Konerko criticizing Uribe for throwing up the fake stop sign to Derrek Lee last year, keeping him at second base.

There's one. Thanks, CLR.

There's the Frank thing and the Clayton thing too.

And yes, Caulfield, I completely disagree with that assessment. Clayton was a crappy SS both from a fielding and a batting perspective, record Fld% notwithstanding. He sucked and the fact that he slept with Frank's wife makes it even worse. He was a complete and utter bust as a Sox player, plain and simple.

voodoochile
08-29-2006, 03:33 PM
That wasnt some behind the door secret he said it after the game to the press and I dont think he criticized him for it. I recall saying he wouldnt have done it.

As I recall he said, "That's not the way you play the game", but maybe I am remembering what the flubbies were crying...

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 03:36 PM
Alright finally found it. Thomas was bitching about being benched for three straight days and said he would waive his no trade clause because he felt like he was not wanted on the team. Konerko responded by sayin they should trade him if he is affecting the team in a bad way. So why is this bad of Paulie for saying that? http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0707/1402935.html

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 03:40 PM
And why is it such a big deal if he said Clayton is the best SS he has played with ate the time. I dont see that as being critical. Look at his options before Uribe.

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 03:42 PM
There's one. Thanks, CLR.

There's the Frank thing and the Clayton thing too.

And yes, Caulfield, I completely disagree with that assessment. Clayton was a crappy SS both from a fielding and a batting perspective, record Fld% notwithstanding. He sucked and the fact that he slept with Frank's wife makes it even worse. He was a complete and utter bust as a Sox player, plain and simple.

Still, wouldn't you interpret it if PK said Uribe was the best SS he'd ever played with (knowing Uribe as we do) that he was referring to his fielding and not his hitting prowess?

It's not like he said, Clayton was great because he used to lead the league in triples, etc.

I think it was strictly a comparison (at that point in time) with Clayton and the SS's who had played the position for the Sox prior to his quote...if you asked him today, I'm sure he would say Uribe.

I'm not going to argue the +/- or range factor of Valentin or how many runners he threw out because of his arm...I never liked either Jimenez, Lofton or Clayton when they were here, and they also negatively influenced C-Lee, Magglio and Frank to some extent.

I also think this is another reason why Ventura and Konerko are more "revered" by Sox fans (in general), because they were perceived as "blue collar" or lunch pail players and not petulant but talented crybabies.

Even KW did it, and he should know better...calling him the Big Skirt and threatening not to put a statue up of him.

TheLittleBulldog
08-29-2006, 03:44 PM
And why is it such a big deal if he said Clayton is the best SS he has played with ate the time. I dont see that as being critical. Look at his options before Uribe.

Soxfan13, why is OK for Paulie to call out Frank like this but not OK for Frank to to say, "if the Sox want to trade me, they can trade me". Maybe when you stop letting Jay Mariotti tell you what to think you'll realize Frank isn't the villain that you and Jay make him out to be.

CLR01
08-29-2006, 03:50 PM
That wasnt some behind the door secret he said it after the game to the press and I dont think he criticized him for it. I recall saying he wouldnt have done it.

The fact that he felt the need to go to the media and complain about the play is enough. If he has a problem with how Uribe played then he should have went and told Uribe that, not run his mouth to the media.


"You don't do that," Sox first baseman Paul Konerko said. "If it's done intentionally, that's not right. I was on the ground, digging rocks out of my mouth. But you don't do that."

A month later he is telling the world Royce Clayton is the best shortstop he has ever played with. What a guy.

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 03:53 PM
Soxfan13, why is OK for Paulie to call out Frank like this but not OK for Frank to to say, "if the Sox want to trade me, they can trade me". Maybe when you stop letting Jay Mariotti tell you what to think you'll realize Frank isn't the villain that you and Jay make him out to be.

Did you read the same thing I did. Frank was bitching because he wasnt playing,saying to trade ME "I will waive the no-trade clause. The press asked Paulie what he thought of the situation and he said" trade him if its affecting the team, we as a TEAM want to be all pulling in the same direction" If you read the whole article you will also see where Paulie says "the whole team is behind Thomas and want the best for him whether its here or somewhere else" And what the hell does Mariotti have to do with this?

soxfan13
08-29-2006, 03:59 PM
The fact that he felt the need to go to the media and complain about the play is enough. If he has a problem with how Uribe played then he should have went and told Uribe that, not run his mouth to the media.




A month later he is telling the world Royce Clayton is the best shortstop he has ever played with. What a guy.

Still dont understand where he was complaining? He said he thought it was wrong and that he wouldnt have done that. How do you know he didnt talk with Uribe?

fquaye149
08-29-2006, 04:00 PM
Who could you say was "the best" that PK played with, Jason Dellaero?

wellllllll, I'd put a vote in for the SS that PK was playing with WHEN he made that quote (Juan Uribe). However, whether Juan is > Clayton is beside the point. The point is that Uribe was Paulie's teammate and by praising Clayton in that manner was slighting Juan.

I'm sure you don't see it that way, but a lot of very intelligent posters (including the VAST majority of moderators) on this site saw it this way as well, so we're not just whistling dixie here.

fquaye149
08-29-2006, 04:02 PM
some when it was too late and he was already gone.


gee whiz--you think that has anything to do with it? It's really hard to rip a guy who died bringing relief to earthquake victims.

Do you even think about what you post? Or do you just take the words of journalists and vomit them up as anti-Frank nonsense?

fquaye149
08-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Still dont understand where he was complaining? He said he thought it was wrong and that he wouldnt have done that. How do you know he didnt talk with Uribe?

You don't understand this? It's the number one rule of life--don't talk **** about your teammates to public sources. This goes for at work as well as in life.

Think if you're working a high-profile fortune 500 job. One of your coworkers (a peer, not a subordinate) does something you think is wrong. You don't go to the newspapers and say "I think so and so did something wrong". That's the job of your boss to do that.

If Ozzie or Kenny wants to say that that's fine. But Paulie's comment was like a little kiss ass saying that Johnny was pushing on the playground.

Boo hoo hoo

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 04:13 PM
wellllllll, I'd put a vote in for the SS that PK was playing with WHEN he made that quote (Juan Uribe). However, whether Juan is > Clayton is beside the point. The point is that Uribe was Paulie's teammate and by praising Clayton in that manner was slighting Juan.

I'm sure you don't see it that way, but a lot of very intelligent posters (including the VAST majority of moderators) on this site saw it this way as well, so we're not just whistling dixie here.

And a STRONG MAJORITY of those moderators prefer Thomas over Konerko...there's really no point in discussing this.

Does Ozzie constantly praising the Twins demean Pods or Uribe? You be the judge if they beat us out.

Should Konerko say that Pods is the greatest LF he's ever played with because he's a teammate and they won the WS together last year? It's just an opinion...half of the fans here feel that Rowand is the greatest CFer that PK has ever played with, doesn't matter what statistics you back it up with.

Since PK is probably closer to Rowand than Anderson, would he be similarly grilled for not saying Anderson was the best CFer he ever played with, even though he won the WS with Rowand as his teammate?


And can you link to the direct quote please? Context? Where/when made? In which publication besides the Cubune?

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 04:14 PM
gee whiz--you think that has anything to do with it? It's really hard to rip a guy who died bringing relief to earthquake victims.

Do you even think about what you post? Or do you just take the words of journalists and vomit them up as anti-Frank nonsense?

That hasn't stopped the media from ripping Puckett or Derrick Thomas....they did lots of great "community-oriented" things, had foundations and charitable events, yet have been vilified posthumously.

CLR01
08-29-2006, 04:18 PM
Still dont understand where he was complaining? He said he thought it was wrong and that he wouldnt have done that. How do you know he didnt talk with Uribe?
He may have, he still should not have ran his mouth to reporters about it. If you can't see that he was criticizing the Uribe for the play well then there is nothing that can be said to change your mind. It doesn't help the situation when 3 weeks later he is telling those same reporters that " Royce Clayton is the best shortstop I ever played with, period. No one is even close to him.."

Go ahead and continue to rip Frank for running his mouth to the media about while letting Konerko walk free.

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 04:25 PM
Where is this quote?

CLR01
08-29-2006, 04:33 PM
Where is this quote?


I can't find the article but here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52230&highlight=Konerko+Uribe)

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 05:04 PM
I can't find the article but here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52230&highlight=Konerko+Uribe)

Well, Uribe had only been on the White Sox for one year and a third of another season when this quote was made.

Secondly, Uribe played 2B and all over the field in 2004, it's not as if he was the clear, consensus SS the entire season.

If he (PK) said it sometime this season, after he'd won the WS with Uribe and after witnessing Juan's playoff and down the stretch defense, I would have an issue with it. But I don't think Paulie would say the same thing now he said two months into the 05 season.

Chisox003
08-29-2006, 05:05 PM
I can't find the article but here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52230&highlight=Konerko+Uribe)
One of the worst/weirdest/most frightening threads in WSI history.

It had everything and then some.

maurice
08-29-2006, 05:19 PM
Does Ozzie constantly praising the Twins demean Pods or Uribe?

No, because he doesn't make silly and offensive claims like "Bartlett is the best SS in the division," thereby implying that he's better than Uribe.

half of the fans here feel that Rowand is the greatest CFer that PK has ever played with

But if a member of the Sox said "Rowand is the greatest defensive CFer that I've ever played with" that certainly would qualify as an unwarranted shot at Anderson. A better analogy to the Clayton / Uribe fiasco would be "Mackowiak is the greatest defensive CFer that I ever played with."
:cool:

CLR01
08-29-2006, 05:24 PM
Well, Uribe had only been on the White Sox for one year and a third of another season when this quote was made.

Secondly, Uribe played 2B and all over the field in 2004, it's not as if he was the clear, consensus SS the entire season.

If he (PK) said it sometime this season, after he'd won the WS with Uribe and after witnessing Juan's playoff and down the stretch defense, I would have an issue with it. But I don't think Paulie would say the same thing now he said two months into the 05 season.

It's not so much that he was complimenting Royce it's more that he was speaking in absolutes. The best, period, no one comes close? Paulie didn't have much to base those comments on either and it was clear to just about everyone who was watching early on the Juan was every bit as good as Royce and in some cases better (range, arm). He could have simply said "Royce is a good player who rarely makes errors, the ball must have been wet" and this wouldn't have even been news.

The Immigrant
08-29-2006, 05:25 PM
I can't find the article but here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52230&highlight=Konerko+Uribe)

:mg:

I sure wish we made that Konerko for J.T. Snow deal.

Steelrod
08-29-2006, 05:26 PM
There's one. Thanks, CLR.

There's the Frank thing and the Clayton thing too.

And yes, Caulfield, I completely disagree with that assessment. Clayton was a crappy SS both from a fielding and a batting perspective, record Fld% notwithstanding. He sucked and the fact that he slept with Frank's wife makes it even worse. He was a complete and utter bust as a Sox player, plain and simple.
I think your remark is out of line, but if you want to go that route,were you ever at the Hunt Club in in the late 90's?

hawkjt
08-29-2006, 06:22 PM
wow- PK talks to the press nearly everyday and his last offense was June of 05 after the cubs series. That is a lot of sessions with the press where he has said the right things. And had a great post-season and regular season also. maybe we can cut him a little slack?

I like Frank as much as anyone but I do not think PK is a bad guy either.

Kind of a strange debate at this point in time imho.

I also do not think PK relishes being team spokesman but the reporters are limited with only a few guys that really are willing or speak english.

I think it would be a major pain to meet with the press after Fridays or saturdays game and try to be upbeat.

soxinem1
08-29-2006, 07:16 PM
Back in 2004, right before Big Frank went on the DL and missed the rest of the year, the Sox played the cubs and Frank was a PH since the series was being played in The Dump.

Knowing he went up to hit with a broken foot but still tried to come through was one of the proudest memories I ever experienced as a fan. Even though he whiffed on three pitches, he had no business being out there, and was trying to play through the pain.

Is this what you boo a player over? p-l-e-a-s-e!

Have I ever booed a player? Absolutely.

Fisk, Ventura, Baines, and Thomas were players I left off limits to booing, even when Fisk and Baines couldn't hit a pop up when their careers wound down. They were icons of the organization.

I met Frank in 1990 and he was the same way towards the fans then as he was when he left. Always accomidating, friendly, and willing to flash the big smile for ayone who wanted to take a picture with him.

I hope he hits 600 HR, I'll be there to root him on.

Gregory Pratt
08-29-2006, 10:25 PM
Wait wait wait, Clayton slept with Frank Thomas' wife?

TornLabrum
08-29-2006, 10:35 PM
Wait wait wait, Clayton slept with Frank Thomas' wife?

When she was his ex-wife, as I understand it.

ondafarm
08-29-2006, 10:58 PM
When she was his ex-wife, as I understand it.

Bad form any way you cut it!!

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 11:17 PM
But the Man Law rules state you can date after 6 months if she's a hottie, according to Carl St. Phillip. That's the addendum, just in.

Gregory Pratt
08-29-2006, 11:17 PM
When she was his ex-wife, as I understand it.

Huh. I wonder how that works out. Was she, I don't know, hanging around the ballpark or something and he said, "Hi baby" or something? Do players go about talking to other players' wives getting numbers, Just in case?

(I'm just asking rhetorically. I think it's so odd.)

caulfield12
08-29-2006, 11:20 PM
It happens more w/ the minor league groupies and wives as those "aligned" with players whose careers are going in the wrong direction look to move on to greener pastures.

It could have been like the Corbin Bernsen/Charlie Sheen/Bernsen's wife love triangle in Major League, LOL.

soxinem1
08-29-2006, 11:39 PM
But the Man Law rules state you can date after 6 months if she's a hottie, according to Carl St. Phillip. That's the addendum, just in.

That's if they are friends. Are/were Frank and The Choice friends?

And the man law applies to girlfriends, not ex-spouses. :rolleyes:

santo=dorf
08-29-2006, 11:43 PM
The Frank Haters vs. the Frank lovers/PK Haters I love these threads

It's hilarious when people think Hawk is a bonehead homer when he says stuff like taking Crede over A-Rod, Uribe over Jeter, or how USCF is one of the best new ballparks in the league, yet when Konerko gives his honest opinion about the SS not currently being on the team (while Uribe was in his first year being full time shorstop) they jump all over him.

I'm in between on Frank. I love him for all the things he did on the field with the Sox, and I know he had some tough times with his ex-wife, but he has come off as a big baby the past few years. Obviously someone asked about White Sox fans in particular, so I don't see a big deal in him being honest.
Yet when Konerko is honest and not a homer, he gets torn apart.:rolleyes:

voodoochile
08-30-2006, 12:24 AM
I think your remark is out of line, but if you want to go that route,were you ever at the Hunt Club in in the late 90's?

I was merely trying to point out exacty how bad of a teammate he was and I stand behind my statement that Clayton was a total bust for the Sox strictly from a playing perspective. The rest was the **** soup that was poured on the turd sundae that was Royce Claytons' career with our boys in black and silver.

Oh and I am getting a kick out of the people who say us Frank fans are sugar coating everything he ever said that was bad and failing to see the true badness of it because we are blinded by loyalty ALL doing the exact same thing in reverse for the PK quotes...

I stand by what I said earlier. People who dislike Frank are going to see the worst in everything they see or hear about him. People who like Frank are going to do the reverse. It's pretty basic human nature, but what the heck, have at it for another 20 pages, I'm sure you will accomplish something...

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 01:26 AM
The Frank Haters vs. the Frank lovers/PK Haters I love these threads

It's hilarious when people think Hawk is a bonehead homer when he says stuff like taking Crede over A-Rod, Uribe over Jeter, or how USCF is one of the best new ballparks in the league, yet when Konerko gives his honest opinion about the SS not currently being on the team (while Uribe was in his first year being full time shorstop) they jump all over him.



THAT'S NOT THE POINT. Hawk is a moron, but he's not on the team. Konerko is on the team AND HE STILL DIDN'T SUPPORT HIS OWN PLAYER.

But apparently we're just blind Konerko "haters".

StockdaleForVeep
08-30-2006, 06:04 AM
frank, you would have been booed because of the **** that is always spewing out of your mouth. you're not eloquent. stop speaking.
Do u say the same sentiments about what ozzie says?

The media baited Frank and wouldnt get off him, when he stopped talkin to the media, they claimed he was a bad person and dont freakin make a comment like that. Had frank been battin 200 and not producing, everyone would be on his ass saying ozzie needs to bench him or something. The fans were all over his ass the season he hit .252

Christ, anyone recall when konerko couldnt hit the ball and when he winged a foul ball he somehow "got his timing back" and still slumped and finished with a .234 average

Frank is quite right, the fans woulda torn him a new one, esp if him stayin ment no thome or other acquisitions....but i guess thatd be ok cuz all the fanatics would still have rowand then right?

StockdaleForVeep
08-30-2006, 06:13 AM
exACTly--since Frank, no player has done more for this franchise than Buehrle( with the possible exception of Konerko). If anyone's earned reprieve it's Buehrle (who, ironically more exemplifies the self-aggrandizing "ideal of the white sox fan" caulfield detailed in his post)....

There's no excuse for Buehrle to be booed. Any season ticket holder who boos him should lose his season tickets. Any single game holder should be barred from the park.

I absolutely believe Frank would have been booed if he had started the first two months hitting .220 for us. Remember Hangar wanting to sell Dye off to the circus?
So i guess since ozzie brought us a world series, he can never be boo'd for one bad action as a manager cuz he has "special status"?
To quote ozzie "that was last season" or whatever close to that
Buehrle has been rather horrid this season and deserves to be boo'd for failing to perform for what he is paid to do, esp when he keeps jabbin about likin to play for st louis.

If i was at the game buehrle gave up i wanna say 10 runs, i wouldNT applaud him as he walked off the field, would u? While shouting "Thanx for that world series save!"

EDIT-i appologize, typing at 5 am after work makes typos, should say i wouldnt applaud him

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 09:44 AM
So i guess since ozzie brought us a world series, he can never be boo'd for one bad action as a manager cuz he has "special status"?
To quote ozzie "that was last season" or whatever close to that
Buehrle has been rather horrid this season and deserves to be boo'd for failing to perform for what he is paid to do, esp when he keeps jabbin about likin to play for st louis.

If i was at the game buehrle gave up i wanna say 10 runs, i would applaud him as he walked off the field, would u? While shouting "Thanx for that world series save!"
Ozzie is a different story. He's earned a little leeway. I would say it would be wrong to boo him during a rough stretch the year after a WS title though.

Buehrle, however, is a special case. He's pitched his guts out for us since 2000 helping us to win our first title in 88 years in 2005, he's never been with another team, he came up from our minor league system after being drafted in the 37th round, and he never says anything that could even be construed as disrespectful to anyone.

And yet he still has been booed b/c of a rough stretch. I think that's complete and utter bull****

No one says you have to cheer him after a rough outing, but booing a guy who gave so much to this team and acting like you're entitled to that? I think that's bull**** of the first degree.

Gregory Pratt
08-30-2006, 10:54 AM
Ozzie is a different story. He's earned a little leeway. I would say it would be wrong to boo him during a rough stretch the year after a WS title though.

Buehrle, however, is a special case. He's pitched his guts out for us since 2000 helping us to win our first title in 88 years in 2005, he's never been with another team, he came up from our minor league system after being drafted in the 37th round, and he never says anything that could even be construed as disrespectful to anyone.

And yet he still has been booed b/c of a rough stretch. I think that's complete and utter bull****

No one says you have to cheer him after a rough outing, but booing a guy who gave so much to this team and acting like you're entitled to that? I think that's bull**** of the first degree.

I'm with you right there. I got into an exchange of sharp words with a friend of mine over that recently.

voodoochile
08-30-2006, 10:57 AM
Ozzie is a different story. He's earned a little leeway. I would say it would be wrong to boo him during a rough stretch the year after a WS title though.

Buehrle, however, is a special case. He's pitched his guts out for us since 2000 helping us to win our first title in 88 years in 2005, he's never been with another team, he came up from our minor league system after being drafted in the 37th round, and he never says anything that could even be construed as disrespectful to anyone.

And yet he still has been booed b/c of a rough stretch. I think that's complete and utter bull****

No one says you have to cheer him after a rough outing, but booing a guy who gave so much to this team and acting like you're entitled to that? I think that's bull**** of the first degree.

Every single player who contributed to last year's title should be excused from boos forever unless it can be proven that they are dogging it, IMO. At the least they should get a grace period when they are still fighting for their playoff lives this season and have been all year long.

Just because the fans expected to run away with the division and stomp through the playoffs doesn't mean it is a foregone conclusion.

gobears1987
08-30-2006, 11:00 AM
Voodoo, is there any chance you can improve WSI and just ban all of the moronic Frank haters. They don't deserve to be called Sox fans.

:hurt
Those of you who seem to conveniently forget all of Frank's accomplishments should get off the bandwagon when it stops at Clark and Addison.

voodoochile
08-30-2006, 11:03 AM
Voodoo, is there any chance you can improve WSI and just ban all of the moronic Frank haters. They don't deserve to be called Sox fans.

:hurt
Those of you who seem to conveniently forget all of Frank's accomplishments should get off the bandwagon when it stops at Clark and Addison.

They have a bandwagon stop at Clark and Addison? Why? :tongue:

I've been tempted, but I limit myself to people who call him the Big Skirt.

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 11:03 AM
Every single player who contributed to last year's title should be excused from boos forever unless it can be proven that they are dogging it, IMO. At the least they should get a grace period when they are still fighting for their playoff lives this season and have been all year long.

Just because the fans expected to run away with the division and stomp through the playoffs doesn't mean it is a foregone conclusion.

I agree--I don't think ANY player in general ought to be booed unless it's obvious they're dogging it or doing some other thing that merits booing (like taking steroids, etc.).

HOWEVER I know Sox fans are going to boo players who don't perform...and I can almost overlook booing players like Podsednik, Uribe, Politte, whatever...

but Buehrle? How much of a self-centered ******* must you be to boo Buehrle?

voodoochile
08-30-2006, 11:06 AM
I agree--I don't think ANY player in general ought to be booed unless it's obvious they're dogging it or doing some other thing that merits booing (like taking steroids, etc.).

HOWEVER I know Sox fans are going to boo players who don't perform...and I can almost overlook booing players like Podsednik, Uribe, Politte, whatever...

but Buehrle? How much of a self-centered ******* must you be to boo Buehrle?

I remember being at the Memorial Day weekend game the year Royce Clayton opened the first two month batting .099. He got a hit his final AB to raise his average to .101 and got a standing O. I thought that was much more effective than any booing could ever be.

caulfield12
08-30-2006, 11:07 AM
They have a bandwagon stop at Clark and Addison? Why? :tongue:

I've been tempted, but I limit myself to people who call him the Big Skirt.

So Kenny Williams is banned here as well, lol?

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 11:09 AM
So Kenny Williams is banned here as well, lol?

I guarantee if Kenny came here and started posting half the drivel he spewed earlier this season about Frank, he would be banned.

Kenny's a great GM but his opinions on Frank need to stay in his head--they're generally pretty spiteful, petty, and ridiculous--not to mention unprofessional!!

voodoochile
08-30-2006, 11:18 AM
KW would have to prove he was KW by registering with his work e-mail. Then he could have his opinions if he wanted to, having KW here would be worth the hassle, but I'd still give him a piece of my mind if he went off on Frank with stupid crap like that. I doubt he would though.

daveeym
08-30-2006, 11:20 AM
I guarantee if Kenny came here and started posting half the drivel he spewed earlier this season about Frank, he would be banned.

Kenny's a great GM but his opinions on Frank need to stay in his head--they're generally pretty spiteful, petty, and ridiculous--not to mention unprofessional!!And his first hand knowledge of frank is worth less than your idol worshipping opinion? :rolleyes:

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 11:23 AM
And his first hand knowledge of frank is worth less than your idol worshipping opinion? :rolleyes:
I don't idol worship Frank. I simply respect the man, and therefore try to approach the media's portrayal of him with the same skepticism with which some approach the media's portrayal of the Cubs. As far as Kenny goes, I simply think it was completely inappropriate for KW to open old wounds after the matter was dead, time and again, taking much more personal shots at Frank than Frank took at him.

I don't doubt that those were KW's opinions of him. However, other people who have firsthand knowledge of Frank have different opinions of Frank than Kenny. That doesn't make Kenny's opinions irrelevant, but it also doesn't mean that they're the be all and end all just because he has "firsthand knowledge". Kenny is entitled to his opinion but his comments were entirely inappropriate and 100x more childish, stupid, selfish, self-important, than anything Frank has said.

voodoochile
08-30-2006, 11:24 AM
I don't idol worship Frank. I simply respect the man, and therefore try to approach the media's portrayal of him with the same skepticism with which some approach the media's portrayal of the Cubs. As far as Kenny goes, I simply think it was completely inappropriate for KW to open old wounds after the matter was dead, time and again, taking much more personal shots at Frank than Frank took at him.

I don't doubt that those were KW's opinions of him. However, other people who have firsthand knowledge of Frank have different opinions of Frank than Kenny. That doesn't make Kenny's opinions irrelevant, but it also doesn't mean that they're the be all and end all just because he has "firsthand knowledge". Kenny is entitled to his opinion but his comments were entirely inappropriate and 100x more childish, stupid, selfish, self-important, than anything Frank has said.

Yep, opinions are like *******s. Everyone has one.

caulfield12
08-30-2006, 11:26 AM
So, if you were Ricciardi in Toronto, would you have fired Gibbons immediately for his second clubhouse incident that was at least partially initiated by the manager?

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 11:26 AM
So, if you were Ricciardi in Toronto, would you have fired Gibbons immediately for his second clubhouse incident that was at least partially initiated by the manager?

I'm not sure I understand your point. You mean "partially initiated by Lilly"?

caulfield12
08-30-2006, 11:28 AM
Gibbons is the authority figure, just as KW was...

By all accounts, Gibbons lost control, and that's not professional for a superior in that situation if he is to maintain the respect of his team (or business organization, etc.)

And at least the KW/Thomas confrontation was a verbal and not a physical one. I guess it depends on how the rest of the staff/team/organization feels about who is in the right and wrong...and if they remain supportive.

soxfan13
08-30-2006, 11:34 AM
Voodoo, is there any chance you can improve WSI and just ban all of the moronic Frank haters. They don't deserve to be called Sox fans.

:hurt
Those of you who seem to conveniently forget all of Frank's accomplishments should get off the bandwagon when it stops at Clark and Addison.

Where is it written in the so-called "Rules of Being a Fan" book (that you seem to know so well) that you have to like every single player regardless of talent, that wore your home team uniform. I have been a Sox fan for alot longer then you have been alive and when you were still running around in diapers I was a huge Frank Thomas fan. Like I have said many times before (to the point that I am turning blue) I respect everything he did for the White Sox and yes he is the greatest Sox hitter ever and yes I appreciate everything he did for the White Sox, but his constant whining and bitching eventually wore thin on me. I can honestly say I never booed him, even in his down times. I always clapped for him when he was introduced(My respect for him) and I always cheered for him when he did something good (obvious reasons). That does not mean I have to like him as a person. If every single person on this board can honestly say they have loved every person that ever played in a Sox uniform, then God bless you, I guess you are a better fan then me. To say, if a person doesnt like Frank Thomas, is a bandwagoner is just wrong, wrong, wrong. I thought this was a site where you could voice your opinions and have good discussions. I guess I was wrong because I have noticed in alot of threads that namecalling is a common thing when a person doesnt have anything intelligent to say.

maurice
08-30-2006, 12:10 PM
Christ, anyone recall when konerko couldnt hit the ball and when he winged a foul ball he somehow "got his timing back" and still slumped and finished with a .234 average

. . . all while collecting $8 million and causing the Sox to miss the playoffs by 4 games, and then later blamed the whole thing on JM for not playing him enough ("only" 137 games).
:rolleyes:

But that was just his "opinion," and Konerko is entitled to say whatever BS he pleases.

caulfield12
08-30-2006, 12:58 PM
Where is it written in the so-called "Rules of Being a Fan" book (that you seem to know so well) that you have to like every single player regardless of talent, that wore your home team uniform. I have been a Sox fan for alot longer then you have been alive and when you were still running around in diapers I was a huge Frank Thomas fan. Like I have said many times before (to the point that I am turning blue) I respect everything he did for the White Sox and yes he is the greatest Sox hitter ever and yes I appreciate everything he did for the White Sox, but his constant whining and bitching eventually wore thin on me. I can honestly say I never booed him, even in his down times. I always clapped for him when he was introduced(My respect for him) and I always cheered for him when he did something good (obvious reasons). That does not mean I have to like him as a person. If every single person on this board can honestly say they have loved every person that ever played in a Sox uniform, then God bless you, I guess you are a better fan then me. To say, if a person doesnt like Frank Thomas, is a bandwagoner is just wrong, wrong, wrong. I thought this was a site where you could voice your opinions and have good discussions. I guess I was wrong because I have noticed in alot of threads that namecalling is a common thing when a person doesnt have anything intelligent to say.

For instance,

David Wells
Wil Cordero
Albert Belle
Jaime Navarro
Kenny Lofton
D'Angelo Jimenez
Tony Phillips
Carlos Castillo (no personal reason, just didn't respect someone so out of shape)
Billy Koch
Steve Sax (some liked him, but I never "got" it with him)

kevin57
08-30-2006, 01:01 PM
It is possible to admire and respect and love Frank Thomas as a player, as very arguably the greatest player to ever put on the White Sox uniform AND also believe that he has a perpetual case of "foot in mouth" disease. These are not mutually exclusive opinions, or make him even a bad person.

Scottzilla
08-30-2006, 01:09 PM
It is possible to admire and respect and love Frank Thomas as a player, as very arguably the greatest player to ever put on the White Sox uniform AND also believe that he has a perpetual case of "foot in mouth" disease. These are not mutually exclusive opinions, or make him even a bad person.

I agree with this a bajillion percent. I think people just have some chemical pheromone reaction to Frank

Paulie and Frank could say the exact same thing in the exact same context and one will be called a leader and one a whiner.

caulfield12
08-30-2006, 01:17 PM
I thought it was funny Thomas (in the WS DVD) said twice how the White Sox clubhouse was "loose" and that Ozzie was the "loosest cannon or cat" or words to that effect and now he's saying the Oakland clubhouse is even looser.

Oh well, it's probably a bit easier to say that when you are on a winning team with a clear route to the playoffs as the Angels are now in the midst of a fade job.

maurice
08-30-2006, 01:17 PM
I think people just have some chemical pheromone reaction to Frank
Paulie and Frank could say the exact same thing in the exact same context and one will be called a leader and one a whiner.

Good observation. Can you imagine the reaction if Frank were the one thrown out at home plate by 20 feet and did some half-ass slide instead of JaimeBurkeanizing the catcher? Voodoo would be banning people left and right for calling him "the Big Skirt." Konerko did it last night, and everybody just let it go, focusing instead on the real culprit (Cora).

Of course, if we looked closer at the primary difference between the two men that might cause a negative "pheromone reaction" against Frank in a segment of Chicagoans, this thread would end up closed and Roadhoused.

caulfield12
08-30-2006, 01:23 PM
I don't necessarily agree with that...there have been plenty of African American and Hispanic players that were the most popular AND best in their team's history.

Tony Gwynn and Kirby Puckett come to mind right off the top of my head.

Willie McGee is probably the most popular Cardinal of the last 25 years, along with Pujols (as McGwire has fallen back).

Giants fans still love Bonds. Luis Gonzalez and Clemente...Sosa was a god at Wrigley until two seasons ago.

Hunter is the most popular Twin now, Crawford the most popular D-Ray.

Frank White and Lou Whitaker are immensely popular in KC and DET.

In total, 13 of the "Hometown Heroes" were African-American or Hispanic.

Scottzilla
08-30-2006, 01:37 PM
i wasnt trying to infer race, more like that commercial where in conference a guy makes a suggestion than the boss just repeats and makes a hand gesture and everyone agrees with him.
though it could play a part. especially if you are a very very big black man.

maurice
08-30-2006, 01:48 PM
Speaking of Puckett, whenever I visited Minnesota in the 1980s & '90s, it seemed like Puckett was slightly less popular than Kent Hrbeck. This always baffled me.

I doubt that's still true. It's just my subjective observation, based on fans' reactions and Twins merchandising at that time.

Everybody seems to love the big, slow white guys.

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 01:49 PM
Gibbons is the authority figure, just as KW was...

By all accounts, Gibbons lost control, and that's not professional for a superior in that situation if he is to maintain the respect of his team (or business organization, etc.)

And at least the KW/Thomas confrontation was a verbal and not a physical one. I guess it depends on how the rest of the staff/team/organization feels about who is in the right and wrong...and if they remain supportive.

ways in which this situation is different:

1.) Gibbons physically assaulted a team member. Williams verbally assaulted an ex-team member.

2.) There are two layers of seperation b/t KW and Frank. There is only one between Gibbons and Lilly.

3.) Gibbons has been floundering as manager and his confrontations either reflect that or add to it. KW's beef w/ Frank is personal and removed from the actual success on the team (success that KW is having at a level far greater than Gibbons).

4.) GM's fire managers much more often than Owners fire GMs.

Having said all that I don't support Gibbons' actions nor KW's. I think KW is a great GM but his spat with Frank was out of line.

Scottzilla
08-30-2006, 02:03 PM
Speaking of Puckett, whenever I visited Minnesota in the 1980s & '90s, it seemed like Puckett was slightly less popular than Kent Hrbeck. This always baffled me.

I doubt that's still true. It's just my subjective observation, based on fans' reactions and Twins merchandising at that time.

Everybody seems to love the big, slow white guys.

that is very true. also knoblaaaaaugchhch or whatever was a big deal up there.
i guess if frank wants to be popular with all sox fans he needs to die at an early age

gobears1987
08-30-2006, 02:09 PM
For instance,

David Wells
Wil Cordero
Albert Belle
Jaime Navarro
Kenny Lofton
D'Angelo Jimenez
Tony Phillips
Carlos Castillo (no personal reason, just didn't respect someone so out of shape)
Billy Koch
Steve Sax (some liked him, but I never "got" it with him)The fact is that Frank Thomas never did deserve boos. I'm not saying you can't boo any player. What I am saying is that you can't boo Frank Thomas. He is the greatest player in franchise history. That is like booing Minnie Minoso or Nellie Fox.

Uncle_Patrick
08-30-2006, 03:06 PM
The fact is that Frank Thomas never did deserve boos. I'm not saying you can't boo any player. What I am saying is that you can't boo Frank Thomas. He is the greatest player in franchise history. That is like booing Minnie Minoso or Nellie Fox.

Even Babe Ruth was booed by Yankees fans at the end of his career. Most sports fans are of the "What have you done for me lately?" mindset.

Man, this thread has gotten way off track. What started out as a debate on whether or not Frank Thomas was taking a shot at Sox fans has turned into how The Choice sucked, Konerko is a media whore, whether or not its ok to boo certain people, and whether or not real Sox fans can boo Frank Thomas.

caulfield12
08-30-2006, 03:15 PM
The fact is that Frank Thomas never did deserve boos. I'm not saying you can't boo any player. What I am saying is that you can't boo Frank Thomas. He is the greatest player in franchise history. That is like booing Minnie Minoso or Nellie Fox.

Were Aparicio or Fox ever booed in Chicago?

Just curious, not having been around then.

StockdaleForVeep
08-30-2006, 05:18 PM
Ozzie is a different story. He's earned a little leeway. I would say it would be wrong to boo him during a rough stretch the year after a WS title though.

Buehrle, however, is a special case. He's pitched his guts out for us since 2000 helping us to win our first title in 88 years in 2005, he's never been with another team, he came up from our minor league system after being drafted in the 37th round, and he never says anything that could even be construed as disrespectful to anyone.

And yet he still has been booed b/c of a rough stretch. I think that's complete and utter bull****

No one says you have to cheer him after a rough outing, but booing a guy who gave so much to this team and acting like you're entitled to that? I think that's bull**** of the first degree.

Im sure manos and clayton gave 110% at shortstop, doesnt change the fact they sucked at the plate and defense

caulfield12
08-30-2006, 05:22 PM
Valentin was a very much above-average SS from an offensive perspective. And he was our best baserunner and one of our better "fundamentals" players when he wasn't striking out or looking ridiculous against LHPers.

IMO, the acquisition of Valentin and Eldred was the single biggest move in changing the momentum and attitude of this franchise (in recent years), not to mention the addition by subtraction we got from dumping Navarro.

santo=dorf
08-30-2006, 07:57 PM
THAT'S NOT THE POINT. Hawk is a moron, but he's not on the team. Konerko is on the team AND HE STILL DIDN'T SUPPORT HIS OWN PLAYER.

But apparently we're just blind Konerko "haters".
Yes, yes you are.

It'd be interesting if Frank is asked if the Oakland Athletics fans are the best fans he has ever played for.

If he says "no," then I guess he's a great guy for still loving Sox fans, but he'd be throwing A's fans under the bus EVEN THOUGH HE'S ON THE TEAM.

If he says "yes," then I guess he's saying the right things and the Frank extremists would get on their high horses and start blaming other Sox fans for treating Frank rudely.

You want a team player?

Konerko gives the final ball to JR at the parade and says "I guess we'll have to do it again next year" despite being a free agent.

Thomas pouts after signing with the A's saying he never would've thrown out the first pitch at the ALDS or go to the World Series parade had he known for a fact that the Sox weren't bringing him back.

How's that for "supporting a player?" :rolleyes:

santo=dorf
08-30-2006, 08:03 PM
. . . all while collecting $8 million and causing the Sox to miss the playoffs by 4 games, and then later blamed the whole thing on JM for not playing him enough ("only" 137 games).
:rolleyes:

But that was just his "opinion," and Konerko is entitled to say whatever BS he pleases.
Please

Konerko was responsible for the Sox missing the playoffs in 2003????

The gaping hole in the #5 spot, Manuel, the combined first half "efforts" of Colon, Buehrle, and Koch had more of an impact on the 2003 Sox than Konerko slumping.

Frank had a great run in Chicago, and PK had a bad year in 2003. No lies there.
The fact is Konerko did more for the 2005 White Sox than Frank, and I am willing to accept his efforts and resluts in 2005 even if it was his fault for us missing the playoffs in 2003.

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 08:18 PM
Yes, yes you are.

It'd be interesting if Frank is asked if the Oakland Athletics fans are the best fans he has ever played for.

If he says "no," then I guess he's a great guy for still loving Sox fans, but he'd be throwing A's fans under the bus EVEN THOUGH HE'S ON THE TEAM.

If he says "yes," then I guess he's saying the right things and the Frank extremists would get on their high horses and start blaming other Sox fans for treating Frank rudely.

You want a team player?

Konerko gives the final ball to JR at the parade and says "I guess we'll have to do it again next year" despite being a free agent.

Thomas pouts after signing with the A's saying he never would've thrown out the first pitch at the ALDS or go to the World Series parade had he known for a fact that the Sox weren't bringing him back.

How's that for "supporting a player?" :rolleyes:

You know how a real man answers that question--either keeps his mouth shut or praises both fans so not to offend one.

You think some Frankbaiter hasn't asked him that yet? Yet we haven't heard a blurb b/c Frank didn't say what the reporters wanted him to say: "Damn Chicago fans ain't nothin like these Oakland fans"

For the record I don't hate Paul Konerko at all. I like what he did for us last year, and I appreciate his hard work and style of play, especially in regards to improving his defense at first. He was a huge part of our world series championship team and if you recall I started a thread around September of last year "apologizing" to Konerko for criticizing his comments I objected to.

However that doesn't mean I love everything Paulie does. I didn't like his comments surrounding Uribe. I didn't like his comments about Frank. I didn't like his comment when he was mic-ed in a game where he said of Jose Contreras to an opposing coach "watch--he'll go ahead and do something stupid now."

It's a flaw in a player I admire, in my opinion at least. Just as you find flaws in Frank's comments. However, it's obvious the attitude the media has toward Thomas and it's obvious the media has toward Konerko. Frank's every misstep is blown out of proportion, but you'll never see Mariotti or Phil Rogers writing a smear piece about even Paulie's most incendiary (in the opinion of many people at this board, at least) comments.

If you want to align yourself with the sports media tabloid circus, that's fine, that's your perogative. I tend to look at the kind of media--in fact the very same media outlet--that glorified Sosa for the longest time b/c he was giving good copy ("Baseball been berry good to me"), then immediately turned on him when the Cubune needed to cut his salary (long after they OUGHT to have turned on him for wife-beating, cheating, Jesus-comparing, boombox blaring, training camp skipping, Dominican aid skimping, money-suitcase losing, and so on) very suspciously.

Cubune show Frank bad, Sosa good, no I mean bad, no I mean good.

Keep on trucking santo

fquaye149
08-30-2006, 08:21 PM
Please

Konerko was responsible for the Sox missing the playoffs in 2003????

The gaping hole in the #5 spot, Manuel, the combined first half "efforts" of Colon, Buehrle, and Koch had more of an impact on the 2003 Sox than Konerko slumping.

Frank had a great run in Chicago, and PK had a bad year in 2003. No lies there.
The fact is Konerko did more for the 2005 White Sox than Frank, and I am willing to accept his efforts and resluts in 2005 even if it was his fault for us missing the playoffs in 2003.

I think he's mostly harping on a .238 hitter blaming the manager for his poor performance. I'll give Paulie a pass on this one though--Manuel was god-awful. Of course now I've offended "ILikedManuel"

ondafarm
08-30-2006, 08:23 PM
Good observation. Can you imagine the reaction if Frank were the one thrown out at home plate by 20 feet and did some half-ass slide instead of JaimeBurkeanizing the catcher? Voodoo would be banning people left and right for calling him "the Big Skirt." Konerko did it last night, and everybody just let it go, focusing instead on the real culprit (Cora).

Of course, if we looked closer at the primary difference between the two men that might cause a negative "pheromone reaction" against Frank in a segment of Chicagoans, this thread would end up closed and Roadhoused.

I think the big factor here is that PK has never been subject of Moronotti's abuse (at least not in a major way.) Moronotti seemed to make it his favorite cause to drive Big Frank out of town. IIRC PK has never been badly bashed.

PK isn't perfect. He has said a few things from time to time I thought inappropriate.

Frank Thomas isn't perfect either. He certainly has said inappropriate things, perhaps even more than PK. And Frank's constant battle with the umpires, something he was shown to be totally justified in by Questec, has never helped. ((I've seen the Questec report, the average umpire can judge the oustide corner within an inch and a half. Frank Thomas within an inch. The average batter is more like two inches.)) Jerry Manuel didn't do any favors either.

IMHO, every White Sox fan should appreciate what Frank Thomas and PK have done for the White Sox in past years and currently. I think anybody can appreciate that both have angered some other fans. Bash either or both or neither for those things and thats your opinion. Frank is now in Oakland and evidently quite happy and quite well-liked. If he says a few things directed towards his fan base in Northern California then big deal. Be happy for him that he's found someplace he's well-liked and successful.

fusillirob1983
08-30-2006, 09:03 PM
I think the big factor here is that PK has never been subject of Moronotti's abuse (at least not in a major way.) Moronotti seemed to make it his favorite cause to drive Big Frank out of town. IIRC PK has never been badly bashed.

PK isn't perfect. He has said a few things from time to time I thought inappropriate.

Frank Thomas isn't perfect either. He certainly has said inappropriate things, perhaps even more than PK. And Frank's constant battle with the umpires, something he was shown to be totally justified in by Questec, has never helped. ((I've seen the Questec report, the average umpire can judge the oustide corner within an inch and a half. Frank Thomas within an inch. The average batter is more like two inches.)) Jerry Manuel didn't do any favors either.

IMHO, every White Sox fan should appreciate what Frank Thomas and PK have done for the White Sox in past years and currently. I think anybody can appreciate that both have angered some other fans. Bash either or both or neither for those things and thats your opinion. Frank is now in Oakland and evidently quite happy and quite well-liked. If he says a few things directed towards his fan base in Northern California then big deal. Be happy for him that he's found someplace he's well-liked and successful.

Just out of curiosity, where did you see this Questec report?

jabrch
08-30-2006, 11:12 PM
This is a fun discussion. It will never get old in my eyes. Frank is the greatest hitter I ever saw live - without a doubt. I would never argue that for a moment. There is plenty of reason for him to be your favorite player. I wish we still had Young Frank on this team. Imagine that?

Anyhow - always fun to poke at you on this one...





**** it... we have long ago agreed to disagree on this topic, and I still love your signature. It's my favorite, aside from my own...:tongue:

soxfan13
08-30-2006, 11:24 PM
I think the big factor here is that PK has never been subject of Moronotti's abuse (at least not in a major way.) Moronotti seemed to make it his favorite cause to drive Big Frank out of town. IIRC PK has never been badly bashed.

PK isn't perfect. He has said a few things from time to time I thought inappropriate.

Frank Thomas isn't perfect either. He certainly has said inappropriate things, perhaps even more than PK. And Frank's constant battle with the umpires, something he was shown to be totally justified in by Questec, has never helped. ((I've seen the Questec report, the average umpire can judge the oustide corner within an inch and a half. Frank Thomas within an inch. The average batter is more like two inches.)) Jerry Manuel didn't do any favors either.

IMHO, every White Sox fan should appreciate what Frank Thomas and PK have done for the White Sox in past years and currently. I think anybody can appreciate that both have angered some other fans. Bash either or both or neither for those things and thats your opinion. Frank is now in Oakland and evidently quite happy and quite well-liked. If he says a few things directed towards his fan base in Northern California then big deal. Be happy for him that he's found someplace he's well-liked and successful.

Kudos, very nicely said!!!:gulp:

ondafarm
08-31-2006, 12:09 PM
Just out of curiosity, where did you see this Questec report?

I was in the press box at the Japan-USA game in the WBC in Anaheim. A friend of mine, former teammate, arranged for me to see it because I am a big Frank Thomas fan.

I am also a Konerko fan.

maurice
08-31-2006, 01:21 PM
You want a team player? Konerko gives the final ball to JR at the parade and says "I guess we'll have to do it again next year" despite being a free agent.

And while negotiating a 5 year / $60 million contract from the guy he gave the ball to. Not a bad return on investement.
:rolleyes:

Also, it's unclear how giving a valuable ball to a millionaire owner is good for the team . . . or anybody else, really.

Konerko was responsible for the Sox missing the playoffs in 2003????
The gaping hole in the #5 spot, Manuel, the combined first half "efforts" of Colon, Buehrle, and Koch had more of an impact on the 2003 Sox than Konerko slumping.

They missed the playoffs by 4 games. Paying $8 million to a 1B with Konerko's "production" (.234 AVE, .305 OBP, .399 SLG, .704 OPS) cost the Sox way more than 4 games, IMO. For example, they could've gotten a solid #5 starter for $8 million, and Konerko's absence from the lineup would've resulted in more runs scored. A cheap replacement 1B could've done better than a .704 OPS. (Even Brian "AAAA" Daubach was more productive than Konerko, and he made 1/16th of Konerko's salary.) There's no doubt that Koch was terrible. I bitched about him as much as anybody, but the fact is that he only lost 5 games the entire year because he got pulled from the closer's role early. Thus, Koch cost us less than 5 games, because even a great closer loses some games. In any event, it really doesn't matter who cost more games. Since Konerko cost >4 games, he independently cost us the playoffs that year. This was back when making the playoffs was considered a really big deal in Chicago.

Kub_Killer_15
09-03-2006, 01:15 AM
I dont really care Frank is the greatest all-time White Sox player and when he looks down at his ring finger he will remember that Chicago never gave up on him.:bandance:

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 07:36 AM
And while negotiating a 5 year / $60 million contract from the guy he gave the ball to. Not a bad return on investement.
:rolleyes:

Also, it's unclear how giving a valuable ball to a millionaire owner is good for the team . . . or anybody else, really.



They missed the playoffs by 4 games. Paying $8 million to a 1B with Konerko's "production" (.234 AVE, .305 OBP, .399 SLG, .704 OPS) cost the Sox way more than 4 games, IMO. For example, they could've gotten a solid #5 starter for $8 million, and Konerko's absence from the lineup would've resulted in more runs scored. A cheap replacement 1B could've done better than a .704 OPS. (Even Brian "AAAA" Daubach was more productive than Konerko, and he made 1/16th of Konerko's salary.) There's no doubt that Koch was terrible. I bitched about him as much as anybody, but the fact is that he only lost 5 games the entire year because he got pulled from the closer's role early. Thus, Koch cost us less than 5 games, because even a great closer loses some games. In any event, it really doesn't matter who cost more games. Since Konerko cost >4 games, he independently cost us the playoffs that year. This was back when making the playoffs was considered a really big deal in Chicago.

When, then we should blame JR for not allowing KW to go out and sign Kenny Rogers near the end of ST. Of course, he went to the Twins. That fifth starter, making less than $5 million, would have more than made up the difference that you claimed PK lost us, because that year, wasn't the record for the fifth starter about 15 games under .500, at least? The Twins also went out and got Shannon Stewart at the deadline, those two were the big difference makers that year. Or we could just say that we would have won if we had a legit closer the entire season instead of a ticking time bomb. Or we would have won had Colon decided not to go Garcia on us and only pitch well when he was inspired by the offense to compete.

And, if we had a decent manager, it would be another 3-5 games in the standings, hard to argue for Manuel "helping" the team in any way.

WSox597
09-03-2006, 09:22 AM
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, and it's a 14 page thread which I didn't have time to read.

Frank Thomas for all he did for the team, didn't play last year except for a couple of weeks. The team still gave him a WS ring, even though they pretty much won it without him. He has nothing to complain about.

As good a player as he was, he was just about 0-for-the-playoffs when he did get in with the Sox, so let's not canonize him just yet. He may have done the same if he was in the playoffs last year, who knows?

If the man had 1/10th the personality of Michael Jordan, for example, he would have owned this town. His surly presence led to the media hammering him. I'm not one of his "haters", I don't have time for nonsense like that, but that's how I see it.

The team bent over backwards to accommodate Frank, it seems he was never happy. I'm sure the people running the Sox heaved a sigh of relief when he signed with the A's, just because of this.

fquaye149
09-03-2006, 10:38 AM
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, and it's a 14 page thread which I didn't have time to read.

Frank Thomas for all he did for the team, didn't play last year except for a couple of weeks. The team still gave him a WS ring, even though they pretty much won it without him. He has nothing to complain about.

As good a player as he was, he was just about 0-for-the-playoffs when he did get in with the Sox, so let's not canonize him just yet. He may have done the same if he was in the playoffs last year, who knows?

If the man had 1/10th the personality of Michael Jordan, for example, he would have owned this town. His surly presence led to the media hammering him. I'm not one of his "haters", I don't have time for nonsense like that, but that's how I see it.

The team bent over backwards to accommodate Frank, it seems he was never happy. I'm sure the people running the Sox heaved a sigh of relief when he signed with the A's, just because of this.

You know what? Maybe you should go back and read this thread...because the things you've talked about in your post have been beaten into the ground.

TheLittleBulldog
09-03-2006, 12:22 PM
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, and it's a 14 page thread which I didn't have time to read.

Frank Thomas for all he did for the team, didn't play last year except for a couple of weeks. The team still gave him a WS ring, even though they pretty much won it without him. He has nothing to complain about.

As good a player as he was, he was just about 0-for-the-playoffs when he did get in with the Sox, so let's not canonize him just yet. He may have done the same if he was in the playoffs last year, who knows?

If the man had 1/10th the personality of Michael Jordan, for example, he would have owned this town. His surly presence led to the media hammering him. I'm not one of his "haters", I don't have time for nonsense like that, but that's how I see it.

The team bent over backwards to accommodate Frank, it seems he was never happy. I'm sure the people running the Sox heaved a sigh of relief when he signed with the A's, just because of this.

Anyone who plays for a team during a championship year gets a ring. Thats standard, not an indication of Kenny and Jerry bending over to accomodate Frank. Also, Frank had a .500 OBP over 9 career playoff games. Not exactly 0-for-the-playoffs, but go ahead and keep on lying about that if you'd like.

WSox597
09-03-2006, 06:19 PM
lying

Nice job on the name calling, I won't reply in kind. Looks like we're both right:

Postseason Ser 0-2 9 26 2 6 0 0 1 3 14 5 .231 .500 .346 0 0 0 0 0

Hardly stellar numbers, and 0 for 2 for series. Not exactly the Babe here. Thanks for your input.


beaten into the ground.

Sorry for that, I did mention I hadn't read the thread. These things have been mentioned before elsewhere, too.

TheLittleBulldog
09-03-2006, 07:22 PM
Nice job on the name calling, I won't reply in kind. Looks like we're both right:

Postseason Ser 0-2 9 26 2 6 0 0 1 3 14 5 .231 .500 .346 0 0 0 0 0

Hardly stellar numbers, and 0 for 2 for series. Not exactly the Babe here. Thanks for your input.


No, you're right. Its Frank's fault that Jack McDowell was tipping his pitches in 1993 and that the 2000 White Sox rotation resembled the '03 Devils Rays'. So Frank is 0-2 in playoff series. What was Ted Williams' playoff track record? Or Yastrzemsky's Or Carews? Aren't these men who have been canonized in the world of Major League baseball. And Frank was a better hitter than 2 of those 3.

caulfield12
09-03-2006, 07:29 PM
Don't forget Bonds and A-Rod.

What is our rotation today going to be compared to if 2000 Sox=2003 Devil Rays?

fquaye149
09-03-2006, 07:30 PM
Don't forget Bonds and A-Rod.

What is our rotation today going to be compared to if 2000 Sox=2003 Devil Rays?

1984 White Sox

WSox597
09-03-2006, 08:07 PM
And Frank was a better hitter than 2 of those 3.

Which two? Carew who won 7 batting titles? Or Williams probably the best hitter who ever lived?

Why don't we just agree to disagree and be done with this? I won't change your mind, and you won't change mine.

ondafarm
09-03-2006, 08:56 PM
Anyone who plays for a team during a championship year gets a ring. Thats standard, not an indication of Kenny and Jerry bending over to accomodate Frank. . . .

Keep in mind, even Shingo got a WS ring. IMHO, Frank's contribution to the 2005 White Sox exceeded Shingo's.

RKMeibalane
09-03-2006, 10:15 PM
Let's see here...

I think Frank would have been better off if he had said nothing (shock, surprise), but as far as his comments in and of themselves are concerned, I don't think what he said is that big of a deal. He said Sox fans would have booed him if he had played poorly to start the season, and people probably would have. The whining in this thread is proof of that. He didn't say that Sox fans are "bad fans," or that he hated Chicago.

I find it interesting that the people who are complaining the most about this are those who never liked him to begin with. To them I ask the following question: If you never liked Frank to begin with, why do you care what he thinks of you?

CLR01
09-04-2006, 02:09 AM
Lying Nice job on the name calling, I won't reply in kind.

You're kidding right?

TDog
09-04-2006, 06:30 PM
I loved Frank Thomas when he played for the Sox. I even rationalized his statements in the media. Since he left the Sox he has has the look and feel of a whiny enemy -- worse yet, a whiny Sox killer.

I would have felt better about him if he had retired.