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LITTLE NELL
08-27-2006, 06:11 AM
Why does Guillen continue to put Mackoviak in center field? Brian Anderson and Crash Rowand would have caught the triple and ground rule double in the second inning which put us down 3 runs. Please Ozzie, we have plenty of hitting, put your best defensive players in the lineup.

Bulls_Fan
08-27-2006, 06:45 AM
I admit i'm not an Anderson fan but i commented to my GF that Anderson would have at least had a good chance of making both those plays.

BeviBall!
08-27-2006, 07:15 AM
http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~hobd8260/BeatDeadHorse.gif

It ain't gonna change, no matter how much sense it makes.

southside rocks
08-27-2006, 08:31 AM
Well, this is the probably first time I have ever said or thought this, but IMO Ozzie lost that game last night. He lost it by putting Mack in CF.

And Phil Arvia, in the Daily Southtown, had the same reaction that I did. His column is worth a read.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/arvia/x27-ard1.htm

I was at the game last night and after BOTH the hits in the second, my friends and I turned to each other and said "Anderson catches that."

I am starting to think that Ozzie has a blind spot when it comes to the CF/BA/Mack issue, and it's hurting the team. :?:

TomBradley72
08-27-2006, 08:37 AM
I was at the game last night as well...Anderson ABSOLUTELY catches both the triple and the double in the 2nd inning...as evidenced by Anderson going all the way to the wall and catching a ball at the top of the wall later in the game. The earlier hits were warning track distance. BA is hitting .290 since the All Star break..continuing to play Mac in CF is inexcusable and its hurting the pitching as well...you need solid defense if you want solid pithcing.

SoxShirt
08-27-2006, 08:41 AM
I was at the game last night as well...Anderson ABSOLUTELY catches both the triple and the double in the 2nd inning...as evidenced by Anderson going all the way to the wall and catching a ball at the top of the wall later in the game. The earlier hits were warning track distance. BA is hitting .290 since the All Star break..continuing to play Mac in CF is inexcusable and its hurting the pitching as well...you need solid defense if you want solid pithcing.
Exactly what I was thinking. Anderson should play everyday. :mad:

LITTLE NELL
08-27-2006, 08:44 AM
I started this thread before I read the Ariva column. the man is right on the money. The thing is if we can see this why cant KW and OG.

0o0o0
08-27-2006, 09:30 AM
http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/%7Ehobd8260/BeatDeadHorse.gif



That's a sore arm tomorrow.

bluestar
08-27-2006, 09:41 AM
Yes, it is beating a dead horse, and I have beat it for a long time here. I am so thankful that someone in the Chicago media has FINALLY called Ozzie on it. Everyone can see Mackowiak in CF is a mistake, but Ozzie insists on repeating it to the detriment of the team.

Lillian
08-27-2006, 09:41 AM
I was there last night, and when I saw the lineup I turned to my fellow season ticket holders and said; "What is the rationale here? Ozzie plays the right hand hitting Alomar for A. J., and then benches Brian for the Left handed hitting Mackowiak." Although I actually like the idea of having a few left handed hitters in the lineup against Santana, Brian was not the guy to replace. I told everyone that his absence, and Rob's presence in center would end up having a significant impact on the game. I didn't think that I'd be proven right twice, before even 6 outs were recorded by Jose!!!!! Everyone around me was congratulating me for making such a good call, but being able to say, "I told you so", never felt worse.

I'm getting really irritated over this issue. What is Ozzie's problem?

BainesHOF
08-27-2006, 09:42 AM
GREAT column.

Ozzie has been absolutely brutal this series. Not bringing in McCarthy and pitching Cotts and Riske in Friday's game, and then starting Mackoviak instead of Anderson on Saturday was incredibly stupid.

daveeym
08-27-2006, 09:46 AM
Well, this is the probably first time I have ever said or thought this, but IMO Ozzie lost that game last night. He lost it by putting Mack in CF.

And Phil Arvia, in the Daily Southtown, had the same reaction that I did. His column is worth a read.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/arvia/x27-ard1.htm

I was at the game last night and after BOTH the hits in the second, my friends and I turned to each other and said "Anderson catches that."

I am starting to think that Ozzie has a blind spot when it comes to the CF/BA/Mack issue, and it's hurting the team. :?:Everyone in the entire stadium was saying the same thing, "Anderson makes both those catches." The 60-70 year old guy in front of me, 2 guys 2 rows behind, the 3 drunk guys 5 seats to my left. It was ridiculous.

Seriously pablo can't be any worse in center. Give him a shot and move mack to left in a game like that.

PeteWard
08-27-2006, 09:51 AM
Exactly what I was thinking. Anderson should play everyday. :mad:

But maybe BA is batting .290 because Ozzie STOPPED PLAYING HIM EVERY DAY!!!!!! The platoon system is working for BA and sorry, but didn't Mack do anything Friday?? Maybe a couple of big hits? I could be wrong.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-27-2006, 10:21 AM
But maybe BA is batting .290 because Ozzie STOPPED PLAYING HIM EVERY DAY!!!!!! The platoon system is working for BA and sorry, but didn't Mack do anything Friday?? Maybe a couple of big hits? I could be wrong.

Then put Mack in LF and let BA lead off. How much worse than Pods could he be? I like to see Mack play, I like Mack a lot, just not in CF. And I don't see how this can be helping Mack's head by being made the goat everytime a ball drops in center.

slobes
08-27-2006, 10:35 AM
Unfortunately Ozzie has always been big on playing his subs a alot to keep them fresh. In his mind, it looks like if you're not superstar material (Crede, Konerko, Thome, Dye), you will be sitting out more than 1 out of every 10 games.

champagne030
08-27-2006, 10:35 AM
But maybe BA is batting .290 because Ozzie STOPPED PLAYING HIM EVERY DAY!!!!!! The platoon system is working for BA and sorry, but didn't Mack do anything Friday?? Maybe a couple of big hits? I could be wrong.

First of all, I don't care what BA hits. Mack doesn't hit well enough to cover up the 3 runs he allowed in the 2nd inning or the other approximate 40 balls he's misplayed this season. Second, BA wasn't playing "EVERY DAY" when he was at .160.

Mack has no clue. Next time you're at the game 'line up' where the other CF plays. Hunter and BA both played at least 25 feet deeper than Mack did. He can't come in on a ball so he plays extremely shallow. Well, obviously he can't go back on the ball either. I'd prefer the blooper to fall in front than the extra basehit over his head, but we have to pick our poison with Mack. He's either going to let them hit it over his head or they'll drop in front.

bluestar
08-27-2006, 10:37 AM
But maybe BA is batting .290 because Ozzie STOPPED PLAYING HIM EVERY DAY!!!!!! The platoon system is working for BA and sorry, but didn't Mack do anything Friday?? Maybe a couple of big hits? I could be wrong.

First, Ozzie insists he is not platooning in CF.

Second, when has Ozzie ever played BA every day? Mackowiak has been in CF at least twice a week pretty much all season. How do you know BA wouldn't hit even better if he was allowed to play every day?

bluestar
08-27-2006, 10:40 AM
First of all, I don't care what BA hits. Mack doesn't hit well enough to cover up the 3 runs he allowed in the 2nd inning or the other approximate 40 balls he's misplayed this season. Second, BA wasn't playing "EVERY DAY" when he was at .160.

Mack has no clue. Next time you're at the game 'line up' where the other CF plays. Hunter and BA both played at least 25 feet deeper than Mack did. He can't come in on a ball so he plays extremely shallow. Well, obviously he can't go back on the ball either. I'd prefer the blooper to fall in front than the extra basehit over his head, but we have to pick our poison with Mack. He's either going to let them hit it over his head or they'll drop in front.
Agreed. Mackowiak does not seem to read the ball off the bat very well in CF. He is not a natural CFer. He is obviously being played out of position. It is unfair to him, and it does not give the team the best chance at winning on a regular basis.

Bill Naharodny
08-27-2006, 10:41 AM
My concern is the psychological effect on the pitchers. It can't feel good to read the lineup card and think about all those balls not caught in the the past by Mackowiak.

hi im skot
08-27-2006, 11:19 AM
Ozzie seriously needs to pull his head out of his ass.

Everytime Mack starts, you can almost guarantee that he will struggle with something that ends up costing the Sox later in the game.

Mackowiak is a fantastic guy to have on the bench...but a starting center fielder? Of course not.

ode to veeck
08-27-2006, 11:20 AM
I don't get it. Resting the regulars is a good strategy. However, Anderson's much younger and much more capable of playing nearly every day. Instead we've got Mack-a-CF-Hack every other day, which is lot more than resting Anderson, and it's killing us on D. Anderson needs to be playing nearly every day, period.

champagne030
08-27-2006, 11:22 AM
My concern is the psychological effect on the pitchers. It can't feel good to read the lineup card and think about all those balls not caught in the the past by Mackowiak.

And the physical toll......Jose threw an additional 24 pitches in the 2nd inning because Ozzie played a utility infielder in CF.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-27-2006, 11:27 AM
I don't get it. Resting the regulars is a good strategy. However, Anderson's much younger and much more capable of playing nearly every day. Instead we've got Mack-a-CF-Hack every other day, which is lot more than resting Anderson, and it's killing us on D. Anderson needs to be playing nearly every day, period.

Same here. I don't understand why a young, healthy guy with no injury problems (that I know of) needs to be rested that much. Someone on 670 (Rongey?) proposed the theory that Ozzie is trying to build BA's confidence by only playing him against pitchers he feels he has a better chance of hitting. How do you learn to hit them if you never see them. Also, what about Mack's confidence? Looking like crap out there can't make him feel good.

chaerulez
08-27-2006, 11:38 AM
Unless due to injury, BA needs to start every single game at CF. There is no reason to play Mack in CF, he just isn't good enough.

JorgeFabregas
08-27-2006, 11:47 AM
But maybe BA is batting .290 because Ozzie STOPPED PLAYING HIM EVERY DAY!!!!!!
Not true. BA is playing more since the All-Star break, not less. He had 99 ABs in May and June and has 121 in July and August, with a few days left in the month.

Hitmen77
08-27-2006, 12:25 PM
But maybe BA is batting .290 because Ozzie STOPPED PLAYING HIM EVERY DAY!!!!!! The platoon system is working for BA and sorry, but didn't Mack do anything Friday?? Maybe a couple of big hits? I could be wrong.

This philosophy goes against 2 main conventional wisdoms that Ozzie himself claims to subscribe to:

1) Pitching and defense wins championships
2) Good pitching starts with good defense.

Also, can you provide any statistics that show that BA is only succeeding because he's being platooned? Everything I have seen indicates that BA turned things around because he finally adjusted (perhaps mentally) to major league pitching. That's why he's been hitting .290, not because of some stupid platton system.

Unfortunately Ozzie has always been big on playing his subs a alot to keep them fresh. In his mind, it looks like if you're not superstar material (Crede, Konerko, Thome, Dye), you will be sitting out more than 1 out of every 10 games.
But Mackowiak played CF/Anderson sat on Friday. So, if Ozzie's reason is to keep subs fresh or to rest BA, that doesn't fit here because Mack already played the night before.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2006, 12:31 PM
I may be wrong but today I think, is the first day I've ever seen a mainstream member of the media question the same issues fans are questioning in this thread.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/arvia/x27-ard1.htm

Lip

Hitmen77
08-27-2006, 12:38 PM
In the spirit of Letterman's top 10 list, here are some reasons why Ozzie keeps putting Mackowiak in CF (though I haven't come up with 10). This is tongue-in-check.

- Ozzie's time-share in Cancun is only available the first week of October

- Ozzie is just following that old saying that defense does not help pitching and does not help win championships.

- The problem with Sox pitchers is that they aren't throwing enough pitches. Given the other team 4 outs and making the starters labor will only make them stronger.

- Ozzie is just messing with us and wants to see if he can drive Sox fans totally crazy.

- Ozzie has a crystal ball and knows that if the Sox have their backs to the wall in mid-September, they'll go on a tear that won't end until there is another parade in the Loop.

and the number one reason why Ozzie keeps starting Mackowiak in CF.......

- He hasn't been. It's all a bad dream. The Sox won yesterday. Contreras struggled a little early, but settled down after the defense bailed him out with some nice plays. Not his best outing, but it could have been worse.

nedlug
08-27-2006, 12:39 PM
BA is in the lineup today, so we can silence this for now... at least, until Ozzie starts Mack in center in a couple days.

batmanZoSo
08-27-2006, 12:42 PM
I think Anderson in against a top pitcher is a no brainer, but I guess not. I don't see how it's worth debating anymore though.

SOXandILLINI
08-27-2006, 01:10 PM
it is so refreshing to see public opinion finally starting to turn on ozzie. the man is so full of himself, it's obscene. ozzie is 1 socially unacceptable statement, and not making the playoffs away from being fired, and i say good riddance. i no longer get angry with mackowiak for being a butcher, it's not his fault he's pencilled in at cf. he is supposed to be such a defensive minded manager but has PO in left and RM in center, that is almost laughable how bad that combo is.

EndemicSox
08-27-2006, 01:25 PM
The post above me is a stretch. Oz has at least three seasons, regardless of what he says, to get the job done.

rdwj
08-27-2006, 01:32 PM
I just don't understand Ozzie on this one. I like the way he keeps guys fresh and normally don't have a problem his usage of players, but this Mac / BA thing is out of hand. It's completely insane to keep marching a defensive liability out in the 2nd most important defensive position in the game - ESPECIALLY when he's not much of a bat either.

I thought we'd seen the last of the platoon thing last week, but apparently, Ozzie likes seeing game killing plays from his CF.

102605
08-27-2006, 02:12 PM
I am trying to find other things to do than watch today today I guess. So I compiled the White Sox record when Rob Mackowiak has started in CF.

Honestly, it is not as bad as I thought it was going to turn out.

April 4 - L
April 10 - W
April 15 - W
April 16 - W
April 19 - W
April 22 - W
April 30 - W

6-1 April

May 3 - W
May 5 - L
May 12 - L
May 13 - L
May 17 - W
May 19 - W
May 21 - L
May 24 - W
May 27 - L
May 28 - W
May 31 - L

5-6 May

June 1 - L
June 3 - W
June 7 - W
June 8 - L
June 14 - L
June 18 - W
June 21 - W
June 23 - W
June 27 - W

6-3 June

July 2 - L
July 5 - W
July 8 - L
July 16 - L
July 19 - L
July 23 - W
July 26 - L
July 30 - L

2-6 July

August 4 - W
August 8 - W
August 16 - L
August 19 - W
August 21 - L
August 23 - W
August 25 - L
August 26 - L

4-4 August


23-20 Overall

Frater Perdurabo
08-27-2006, 03:18 PM
I am trying to find other things to do than watch today today I guess. So I compiled the White Sox record when Rob Mackowiak (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=406670) has started in CF.

Honestly, it is not as bad as I thought it was going to turn out.

April 4 - L
April 10 - W
April 15 - W
April 16 - W
April 19 - W
April 22 - W
April 30 - W

6-1 April

May 3 - W
May 5 - L
May 12 - L
May 13 - L
May 17 - W
May 19 - W
May 21 - L
May 24 - W
May 27 - L
May 28 - W
May 31 - L

5-6 May

June 1 - L
June 3 - W
June 7 - W
June 8 - L
June 14 - L
June 18 - W
June 21 - W
June 23 - W
June 27 - W

6-3 June

July 2 - L
July 5 - W
July 8 - L
July 16 - L
July 19 - L
July 23 - W
July 26 - L
July 30 - L

2-6 July

August 4 - W
August 8 - W
August 16 - L
August 19 - W
August 21 - L
August 23 - W
August 25 - L
August 26 - L

4-4 August


23-20 Overall

Thank you for posting this. You've helped prove the point I've tried to make for months.

Pending today's result, the Sox are 21 games over .500. That means they are 18 over .500 when Anderson starts in CF.

102605
08-27-2006, 03:26 PM
Thank you for posting this. You've helped prove the point I've tried to make for months.

Pending today's result, the Sox are 21 games over .500. That means they are 18 over .500 when Anderson starts in CF.

Honestly, I am guilty as charged for crying about Rob in CF but very surprised to find the results that I did. It seems his funky play in CF has not affected the SP's as much as I and many other people thought. I think July was the month nobody was bringing anything to the games. If we lose out and don't make the playoffs, I look to that month as why.

Frater Perdurabo
08-27-2006, 03:33 PM
Honestly, I am guilty as charged for crying about Rob in CF but very surprised to find the results that I did. It seems his funky play in CF has not affected the SP's as much as I and many other people thought. I think July was the month nobody was bringing anything to the games. If we lose out and don't make the playoffs, I look to that month as why.

I don't think you understood the context of my reply. I've been arguing for months that the Sox are a better team and give themselves a better chance to win games when they have their best defensive team on the field. Their best defensive team includes Brian Anderson - perhaps the best defensive CF in the game today - because he generates one more putout per game on average than Rob Mackowiak.

By demonstrating that the Sox are 3 games over .500 when Mackowiak starts in CF (and with today's win, they are 19 over .500 when Anderson starts in CF), you have empirically proven that the Sox are better and have a better winning percentage when Anderson starts in CF.

FACT: the Sox are more likely to win when Anderson starts in CF.

102605
08-27-2006, 04:32 PM
I don't think you understood the context of my reply. I've been arguing for months that the Sox are a better team and give themselves a better chance to win games when they have their best defensive team on the field. Their best defensive team includes Brian Anderson - perhaps the best defensive CF in the game today - because he generates one more putout per game on average than Rob Mackowiak.

FACT: the Sox are more likely to win when Anderson starts in CF.

I agree and am on the same page as you. I wish he was only given a day off when he has played 9/10 games in a row and needs one. I did misunderstand it the 1st time. Before I started going through every boxscore I kind of actually was expecting .500 or worse.

daveeym
08-27-2006, 04:35 PM
I don't think you understood the context of my reply. I've been arguing for months that the Sox are a better team and give themselves a better chance to win games when they have their best defensive team on the field. Their best defensive team includes Brian Anderson - perhaps the best defensive CF in the game today - because he generates one more putout per game on average than Rob Mackowiak.

By demonstrating that the Sox are 3 games over .500 when Mackowiak starts in CF (and with today's win, they are 19 over .500 when Anderson starts in CF), you have empirically proven that the Sox are better and have a better winning percentage when Anderson starts in CF.

FACT: the Sox are more likely to win when Anderson starts in CF.Send that post and the game breakdown to ozzie's ****ing hotmail account. I like Mack, I think he should be getting pt, i'm find with him even starting in center once every week 1/2 to two weeks, but this twice a week **** is getting old. I'd rather move dye over and see Mack in right. I have no doubts the results would be much better. I don't think that would strain dye too much either.

Chips
08-27-2006, 04:37 PM
Anderson needs to start every game. Mackowiak can stay on the bench where he belongs.

TomBradley72
08-27-2006, 05:01 PM
it is so refreshing to see public opinion finally starting to turn on ozzie. the man is so full of himself, it's obscene. ozzie is 1 socially unacceptable statement, and not making the playoffs away from being fired, and i say good riddance.

Ridiculous. Ozzie managed this team to it's first World Series Championship in 88 years, and has them playing ~.600 ball this year...one of best two years in the history of a 106 year old franchise. He's wrong about Machowiak in CF, but I hope he's our manager for the next decade.

OzzyTrain
08-27-2006, 05:03 PM
The only reasoning I see is, Ozzie likes to play his bench players

SoxandtheCityTee
08-27-2006, 05:10 PM
The only reasoning I see is, Ozzie likes to play his bench players

That's it, and he is truly, deeply committed to the concept. I doubt anymore that protecting Anderson from tough pitchers who might "ruin his new-found confidence" even enters into it, though the annoucers say it does. Ozzie wants Mackowiak's bat sharp into September and beyond. This is what he thinks has to happen to accomplish that.

IJay22
08-27-2006, 05:41 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060827/capt.10d97c051f9548108ce23b0b16884f21.twins_white_ sox_baseball_cxs104.jpg :(:
I'm a fan of Rob, but the Sox aren't using him right.

utilityman....Yes starting CF.....NO!!!

bluestar
08-27-2006, 05:43 PM
That's it, and he is truly, deeply committed to the concept. I doubt anymore that protecting Anderson from tough pitchers who might "ruin his new-found confidence" even enters into it, though the annoucers say it does. Ozzie wants Mackowiak's bat sharp into September and beyond. This is what he thinks has to happen to accomplish that.

Bull****. If that was his only reasoning, he would play Mackowiak in LF, a position where he would be much better suited, or play him occasionally at 3B. In this situation, it isn't about keeping a player "fresh." As many others have pointed out, Mack had just played CF on Friday night, and Ozzie puts him in there again on Saturday.

CaptainBallz
08-27-2006, 06:01 PM
Bull****. If that was his only reasoning, he would play Mackowiak in LF, a position where he would be much better suited, or play him occasionally at 3B. In this situation, it isn't about keeping a player "fresh." As many others have pointed out, Mack had just played CF on Friday night, and Ozzie puts him in there again on Saturday.

Ozzie starting Mack in CF on Saturday could be one of the most boneheaded moves I have ever seen by Ozzie & Co. It goes against all logic, reason, and even Ozzie's entire baseball philosophy. (Lefty/righty, remember, Oz??)

I have no problem with Mack getting his playing time. He's valuable off the bench and is an overall good pickup by the Sox. But if anybody knew that his primary role would be to take WAY too many starts in CF away from a Brian Anderson who has overcome his early ROOKIE YEAR struggles, it would not have stood.

Mack's good name is getting tarnished because Ozzie's insisting that he play out of position in big games and now against pitchers that he has an obvious disadvantage against. If I were Mack, I would go into Ozzie's office and seriously express how wrong the whole thing is. If nothing else, it would just piss Ozzie off and force him to get benched.

bluestar
08-27-2006, 06:17 PM
Ozzie starting Mack in CF on Saturday could be one of the most boneheaded moves I have ever seen by Ozzie & Co. It goes against all logic, reason, and even Ozzie's entire baseball philosophy. (Lefty/righty, remember, Oz??)

I have no problem with Mack getting his playing time. He's valuable off the bench and is an overall good pickup by the Sox. But if anybody knew that his primary role would be to take WAY too many starts in CF away from a Brian Anderson who has overcome his early ROOKIE YEAR struglges, it would not have stood.

Mack's good name is getting tarnished because Ozzie's insisting that he play out of position in big games and now against pitchers that he has an obvious disadvantage against. If I were Mack, I would go into Ozzie's office and seriously express how wrong the whole thing is. If nothing else, it would just piss Ozzie of and force him to get benched.

Agreed. We are still beating the crap out of that dead horse, but it seems to still be a hot-button topic for many of us.

SoxShirt
08-27-2006, 06:33 PM
I feel bad for Mack. There's no way he likes playing CF. He's really bad, and I'm sure he knows it. I wish Ozzie could understand that he really shouldn't play CF, and just use him for the positions he can play (obviously).

viagracat
08-27-2006, 06:41 PM
I like Mack, he just plays ball and doesn't make waves. I was also once ready to throw Anderson overboard. But BA is now hitting with some authority and has endlessly been stated here, plays a decent CF. He needs to play every day.

Mack, of course, can play several positions unlike BA and is thus a classic utility player. Nothing wrong with that role.

Yes, Ozzie's lefty/righty obsession is getting me tired.

102605
08-28-2006, 01:23 AM
I know this would not be touched now at this point in the season.

Am I wrong or does it make more sense for days when Pods and Mackowiak are in the lineup in CF and LF that having Pods in CF would have made more sense from the beginning?

Considering he at least played 2 major league seasons in CF.

Flyerball
08-28-2006, 01:39 AM
Anderson is one of the best defensive CFs in baseball right now, and the advantages to playing him in center far outweigh the advantages of having Mack in the game because his defensive superiority far outweighs Mack's offensive superiority. Mack should play left and lead off, and BA should be playing every day in CF. That's both the best offsensive and defensive combo, and I don't think that's even been used in a starting lineup all year.

WhteSox725
08-28-2006, 07:50 AM
Another question that could be added to the centerfield discussion is why do we play our centerfielders so short, especially Mack who has trouble going back on balls? I compared where Hunter was playing to where Mack was playing on Saturday night and there was a pretty good difference to the depth. Hell, it looked like most of the time Dye was playing deeper than Mack was.

Hitmen77
08-28-2006, 09:53 AM
Agreed. We are still beating the crap out of that dead horse, but it seems to still be a hot-button topic for many of us.

why is it beating a dead horse if it's a key lineup decision for the most recent game that may have made a difference in a crucial game? :?:

Do you really expect Sox fans to ignore the issue of Mack playing CF? It would be one thing if we keep on harping on something that can't be undone - like the Vazquez trade.

By that standard, maybe we should just stop all posts that involving any of our team's issues unless it's a brand new issue. The woes of our starting pitchers, our team's failure to move runners over or drive in RISP, Dye for MVP, Garland's resurgance etc. Since we've already talked about them and there's nothing we personally can do about them, aren't we just beating a dead horse on all of these issues?

Britt Burns
08-28-2006, 10:28 AM
When I saw the lineup for Saturday's game I thought BA must have been hurt...sitting his righty (and hot) bat for Mack, all while losing an edge defensively in a game that, with Santana pitching, runs likely would be at a premium...ugh. This isn't May-Anderson is swinging well and even if he wasn't, he stuck for so long because of his d in center. I don't get this one, I really don't.

WizardsofOzzie
08-28-2006, 12:02 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060827/capt.10d97c051f9548108ce23b0b16884f21.twins_white_ sox_baseball_cxs104.jpg :(:
I'm a fan of Rob, but the Sox aren't using him right.

utilityman....Yes starting CF.....NO!!!

im not sure why but that picture made me chuckle. He just seems to be waving his glove around, praying the ball will fall in it

bluestar
08-28-2006, 12:50 PM
why is it beating a dead horse if it's a key lineup decision for the most recent game that may have made a difference in a crucial game? :?:

Do you really expect Sox fans to ignore the issue of Mack playing CF? It would be one thing if we keep on harping on something that can't be undone - like the Vazquez trade.

By that standard, maybe we should just stop all posts that involving any of our team's issues unless it's a brand new issue. The woes of our starting pitchers, our team's failure to move runners over or drive in RISP, Dye for MVP, Garland's resurgance etc. Since we've already talked about them and there's nothing we personally can do about them, aren't we just beating a dead horse on all of these issues?
I don't mind discussing this again and again. Ozzie's insistence on playing Mackowiak in CF two or three times per week angers me, and has become one of the more frustrating things Ozzie has done and continues to do during his time as manager. Others complain every time this topic comes up that the discussion is beating a dead horse. The same arguments are made over and over and over, and I guess some find the repetition annoying. Since Ozzie seems rather determined to keep making this mistake, all we are doing is airing our frustations.

Do I expect Sox fans to ignore it? I hope not.

bluestar
08-28-2006, 12:59 PM
Am I wrong or does it make more sense for days when Pods and Mackowiak are in the lineup in CF and LF that having Pods in CF would have made more sense from the beginning?

Considering he at least played 2 major league seasons in CF.

My personal opinion is that Mackowiak is a better outfielder overall than Pods. If they both have to be in the outfield at the same, then I suppose I would rather have Mack in CF, but ideally they would never be in the OF at the same time, unless it was an absolute emergency.

Preferably, in my opinion, Anderson should play CF as often as JD plays RF. If he needs a day off, then play Mack in CF, but that should be a rare occasion. When Mack needs some playing time, I would rather see him in LF or at 3B.

jenn2080
08-28-2006, 01:20 PM
My personal opinion is that Mackowiak is a better outfielder overall than Pods. If they both have to be in the outfield at the same, then I suppose I would rather have Mack in CF, but ideally they would never be in the OF at the same time, unless it was an absolute emergency.

Preferably, in my opinion, Anderson should play CF as often as JD plays RF. If he needs a day off, then play Mack in CF, but that should be a rare occasion. When Mack needs some playing time, I would rather see him in LF or at 3B.


Rob should def not be anywhere near center. On Saturday while sleeping I heard in a matter of 10 min Thats over Robs head. Robs not going to get to that. At no point was I shocked.

whitesoxwilkes
08-28-2006, 01:24 PM
Rob should def not be anywhere near center. On Saturday while sleeping I heard in a matter of 10 min Thats over Robs head. Robs not going to get to that. At no point was I shocked.

When he started going after that 2nd one hit over his head, I thought he was going to throw his glove at it like a Little Leaguer to try and knock it down.

eriqjaffe
08-28-2006, 01:26 PM
When he started going after that 2nd one hit over his head, I thought he was going to throw his glove at it like a Little Leaguer to try and knock it down.It's probably be just about as effective as anything else he does out there.

It's disturbed me from opening day that our backup outfielders are Mackowiak, Ozuna and Gload. I wonder how many games using backup infielders as outfielders has cost the Sox this year...

Say what you will about Timo Perez's bat, at least the guy was a natural outfielder.

StockdaleForVeep
08-28-2006, 02:20 PM
GREAT column.

Ozzie has been absolutely brutal this series. Not bringing in McCarthy and pitching Cotts and Riske in Friday's game, and then starting Mackoviak instead of Anderson on Saturday was incredibly stupid.

I recall all this bein said last year durin our august slump jjust diff names now
"Ozzie cant manage" "Why put in marte!?!? put in cotts!!!" "Vizcaino sucks!" etc etc etc

maurice
08-28-2006, 03:00 PM
Mack's offensive superiority.

Mackowiak actually is worse than Anderson offensively since the ASB . . .
Mackowiak: .276 AVE, .323 OBP, .397 SLG
Anderson: .298 AVE, .339 OBP, .452 SLG

And the gap is widening . . .
Mackowiak since 8/20: 4-15 (.267 AVE); since 8/5: 8-31 (.258 AVE)
Anderson since 8/20: 6-15 (.400 AVE); since 8/5: 17-50 (.340 AVE)

At this point, there's not even the semblance of a reason to bench the red-hot Anderson in favor of Mackowiak.

Tragg
08-28-2006, 03:09 PM
It's really hard to figure why Ozzie puts a poor defensive lineup out there far more often than necessary; I think that will continue as will using Mccarthy as the bullpen's last pitcher.
It's made zero sense thusfar, so why should it change.

TornLabrum
08-28-2006, 08:35 PM
im not sure why but that picture made me chuckle. He just seems to be waving his glove around, praying the ball will fall in it

Rob Mackowiak reminds me of the reincarnation of Steve Kemp.

Martinigirl
08-29-2006, 11:33 PM
A quote from Ozzie in the Trib's article on tonights game re: Mack in center.

"Guillen also fired back at critics of backup Rob Mackowiak, who struggled defensively in center Saturday against Minnesota.

"I make the lineup because I see the match-up, I see who will be better," Guillen said. "A lot of people don't want Mackowiak there, well, that's the only [backup center fielder] we have. I like him. He plays hard."

Please don't let that be an indication that he will be playing tomorrow. It seems like everytime I am at the game he is in center and something goes very, very wrong.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060829soxgamer,1,6000866.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

lostletters
08-29-2006, 11:42 PM
Anderson has hit around .300 since the All-Star Break. He belongs in the lineup every day at this point. He is great defensively and we need good defense at this point no excuses. Rob M. should only be playing the corners in the outfield.

Martinigirl
08-29-2006, 11:48 PM
Anderson has hit around .300 since the All-Star Break. He belongs in the lineup every day at this point. He is great defensively and we need good defense at this point no excuses. Rob M. should only be playing the corners in the outfield.

Everyone seems to agree with that, but Ozzie.

chino73
08-29-2006, 11:51 PM
You guys are 100% right. I've been saying it all season. When the Sox were looking for a left fielder they asked Ozzie if he would move Pods to Center. Ozzie said Pods can play center for the Pirates but not for a championship team. But Mack can play center for a championship team. Are you kidding me? An adventure every time a ball is hit out to him. If you're not strong up the middle you're not strong anywhere. Mack needs to hit .400 for me to even consider putting him out there. I must say I hope Fields works out in left. I am really excited to see him play. Fields, Anderson and Dye is not many balls that bounce in the outfield.

Lillian
08-30-2006, 06:47 AM
I just had a very scary thought. What if Brian were to get injured?
The Sox don't have any other player in the entire organization who would be capable of playing center at the Major League level. We've all known that noone on the roster is qualified. At the minor league level, Owens is not ready. Neither Sweeney nor Fields are ready for anything other than corner outfield. They would probably have to play Tony Torcato. There is noone at Birmingham even close to being ready for even AAA. How did we get to this position of desparation for such an important position? And a couple of years ago, we had such depth at center with Young, Borchard, Reed, Anderson.

Lillian
08-30-2006, 06:49 AM
Oh, and please don't suggest Pods in center. On that score, I have to agree with Ozzie.

bluestar
08-30-2006, 07:38 AM
A quote from Ozzie in the Trib's article on tonights game re: Mack in center.

"Guillen also fired back at critics of backup Rob Mackowiak, who struggled defensively in center Saturday against Minnesota.

"I make the lineup because I see the match-up, I see who will be better," Guillen said. "A lot of people don't want Mackowiak there, well, that's the only [backup center fielder] we have. I like him. He plays hard."


In other words, we don't have a legitimate backup center fielder. Just because Mackowiak is the only player other than Anderson Ozzie deems capable of playing CF doesn't mean he needs to play there two or three (or more) times per week.

I like Mack, and I agree with Ozzie that he plays hard. He's just not a center fielder.

Law11
08-30-2006, 07:54 AM
"I make the lineup because I see the match-up, I see who will be better," Guillen said. "A lot of people don't want Mackowiak there, well, that's the only [backup center fielder] we have. I like him. He plays hard.

He plays hard but still isnt any good out there OZ...
Hell I played CF in gradeschool, HS right through College.
Give me a shot or at least get someone out there who can teach him
what to look for as a CF.

CF is a postion you can learn. Speed helps but its all about reading the ball
before it gets hit. Studying the pitcher vs batter matchup. Learning when to cheat or lean a little as the ball is being pitched to get that jump on a ball.

My God I hope someone is teaching him this stuff.

Frater Perdurabo
08-30-2006, 08:29 AM
When the Sox were looking for a left fielder they asked Ozzie if he would move Pods to Center. Ozzie said Pods can play center for the Pirates but not for a championship team. But Mack can play center for a championship team. Are you kidding me? An adventure every time a ball is hit out to him.

The sad thing is that Mackowiak wasn't good enough for the Pirates to make CF his primary position. Over his five-year Pittsburgh career (of which 2001 and 2003 were "half seasons," so we'll say he played the equivalent of four full seasons), Mackowiak played 232 games in right, 167 at third, 110 in center, 59 at second, 46 in left and five at first. Over the equivalent of four full seasons, that's an average of 27.5 games in CF each season.

He's started 47 games in CF (and moved into CF in 10 other games) for the Sox in 2006.
:rolleyes:

ajismyhero
08-30-2006, 08:50 AM
If Guillen likes Mackowiak sooo much in the line-up why not have him DH for a few of these games that Thome is out and keep Paulie at first? That way Mackowiak can play and BA can stay in Center, where he belongs.

maurice
08-30-2006, 11:35 AM
I make the lineup because I see the match-up, I see who will be better. A lot of people don't want Mackowiak there, well, that's the only [backup center fielder] we have. I like him. He plays hard.

First, there is no "matchup" imaginable that makes Mackowiak the "better" choice for CF, especially not the "matchup" between Mack's defense and the CF in Comerica.

Second, if he's the backup CF, stop playing him 40% of the time. He plays more often than the backup C.

Third, "I like him" pretty much sums it up. Ability is irrelevant. If Ozzie likes you, you'll start while better players sit. Ask Timo Perez.

Fourth, I'd "play hard" too, if you put me in CF. That doesn't mean I should start ahead of Anderson, who also plays hard but, more importantly, plays WELL.

Typical Ozzie "logic." Facts are irrelevant. If you "feel" that something is true, then it must be true. It's the same crap that made him think that Cotts is a LOOGY, that Valentin was a good #2 hitter, and that Ozzie Guillen would be a good leadoff hitter.

Scottzilla
08-30-2006, 11:41 AM
man i cant imagine what its like to have everything you ever said come back to haunt you like it does a professional athlete / manager.

I'm sure ozzie plays the mack in cf to keep him fresh. he doesnt play him at left or 3rd becuase he needs to keep timo fresh by playing those pos. maybe anderson sits more because of the longer schedule and ozzie is trying to keep him from wearing down? or maybe ozzie just doesnt think at all and tomorrow Onie will be starting at 1b?